|
On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
You are absolutly 100% wrong.
Sorry there is nothing else i can say in regards to your post. I have read it and the reply to my previous post one page earlier twice now and i literally cannot believe what you are writing.
You throw around a number of absolutes which make absolutly no sense and are incorrect.
I'll make a list for your convenience since it seems you lack ANY understanding of legal issues:
1) A contract is not a press release. The announcement on the MLG and Gom homepages about the LXP were press releases. In other words they are paraphrases of contracts to spare us the horror of legalese. In addition to that they by definition do not include any private clauses which may or may not be part of the contract (we don't know). Literally the only people who have seen the contract itself are MLG and Gom representatives (most likely some lawyers as well).
2) A contract is a contract so far so good. Contracts CAN and in fact ARE changed after being signed almost daily. There are protections and agreements against changes which might negatively influence one party or the other but that is something MLG and Gom need to discuss between themselves. Remember the MLG statement? "but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." That explicitly states that Gom CAN adjust what kind of placement Naniwa earned (which is exactly what the Gom announcement SAYS THEY DID).
3) Naniwa has NO CONTRACT WITH GOM. At best he is a 3rd party to the LXP contract (a benefactor in legal speaking). Any actions of his in regards to breaking a possible contract are absolutly irrelevant to legal discussions. The only question is if Gom has fullfilled their obligations to MLG!! not to Naniwa. The only party NANIWA could sue would be MLG if he feels his price for his providence achievement was not fullfilled properly. MLG would then need to sue Gom (which they cannot according to their statement, see above).
Under no legal circumstances whatsoever did Naniwa have a contract for a GSL code S spot with Gom. Contractual Law simply doesn't work that way.
4) Your list of rules is nice, even if it is completly irrelevant to the questions our posts are discussing. You did not include all rules which is bad enough, but more importantly you are arguing something which has absolutly nothing to do with Gom's statement.
I'll clarify their statement with a simply list since you seem to be unable to read:
a) Naniwa got a spot in the Blizzard Cup from his 2nd place ranking in Providence.
b) Gom considers the Blizzard Cup to be the equivalent of a Code S place.
c) According to his behaviour Gom does not feel Naniwa deserves an additional invite to January Code S.
Is that in any way unclear?
Now you can argue either about b or c. Do not mix up the two or your posts simply loose strength.
|
I think you guys are discussing about legal matters without the necessary expertise or documents. In which country would that even be ruled on? USA because MLG is an US american organization. Korea because GOM is a Korean organization? Also there are several layers of questions involved which all get bundled up into one giant pile.
a) Did Naniwa break any rule when probe rushing and obviously behaving in manner that indicates that he was throwing the game?
b) Does that even matter in terms of him receiving the code S spot? Are there any conduct rules in the agreement between MLG and GOM concerning the exchange players.
c) GOM did a format change. Was there any rule of what would happen with outstanding code s spots after a format change? So where they even obliged to offer the spot to Naniwa in the first place?
d) Does GOM has any rules regarding general player conduct, that allows them to ban people without breaking any rules?
And before people start discussing these questions. Neither MLG, nor GOM seem to be interested to actually clarify any of these matters to the point of taking it to a court of law. Maybe they are having discussions about the whole situation but neither of them will gain anything by starting a mud-slinging contest in front of the community. Nobody is happy with what happened and everybody lost in the end.
What I think should be more discussed in the community is not whether or not Naniwa was mistreated, because that will remain a matter of opinion but whether or not it would be better to not to play out these kind of matches.
And I'm also fully aware of the fact that this discussion will continue anyways.
|
On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
|
On December 20 2011 00:09 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:51 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing. and that shouldn't be punished, to happily experience same shit in the furture? coold story bro. some Pro's would not agree.
Punished? They marketed what they thought would happen, and WOULD'VE happened if Naniwa wasn't a BMer. You really think MLG doesn't have some clause about the seeding system? It's not their system, why/how would they contractually offer a seed they don't have rights to? Who's going to punish them in your hypothetical? Naniwa? I doubt he's going back on his apology for his punishment to sue the tourny that gave him his best victories in his career and chance beign barred from entering again. I'm sure Quantic would be thrilled that he's suing one of the biggest tournies in the world.
|
On December 20 2011 00:17 BlueSpace wrote:
I think you guys are discussing about legal matters without the necessary expertise or documents. In which country would that even be ruled on? USA because MLG is an US american organization. Korea because GOM is a Korean organization? Also there are several layers of questions involved which all get bundled up into one giant pile.
a) Did Naniwa break any rule when probe rushing and obviously behaving in manner that indicates that he was throwing the game?
b) Does that even matter in terms of him receiving the code S spot? Are there any conduct rules in the agreement between MLG and GOM concerning the exchange players.
c) GOM did a format change. Was there any rule of what would happen with outstanding code s spots after a format change? So where they even obliged to offer the spot to Naniwa in the first place?
d) Does GOM has any rules regarding general player conduct, that allows them to ban people without breaking any rules?
And before people start discussing these questions. Neither MLG, nor GOM seem to be interested to actually clarify any of these matters to the point of taking it to a court of law. Maybe they are having discussions about the whole situation but neither of them will gain anything by starting a mud-slinging contest in front of the community. Nobody is happy with what happened and everybody lost in the end.
What I think should be more discussed in the community is not whether or not Naniwa was mistreated, because that will remain a matter of opinion but whether or not it would be better to not play out these kind of matches.
And I'm also fully aware of the fact that this discussion will continue anyways.
a. NO
b. NO Naniwa broke NO Conduct of behavior rules. that would include cussing, physical harm. etcetera.
c. OF COURSE they were obliged to give Naniwa the Code S spot..
d. That's a good question. But that player conduct can be a slippery slope. According to GOM themselves. Naniwa broke no explicit rule according to the contract and terms of service.
|
On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
Which specific contract are you referencing here?
Edit: Also, breaking no explicit rules means they're saying he broke implicit rules. You don't have to say "No having sex in the booth" to then argue that if someone does have sex in the booth they're going to be punished by GOM. Anyone being remotely reasonable would know that probe rushing is unacceptable and a breach of expected behaviour. Getting reprimanded for something like that is perfectly acceptable.
|
On December 20 2011 00:20 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:17 BlueSpace wrote:
I think you guys are discussing about legal matters without the necessary expertise or documents. In which country would that even be ruled on? USA because MLG is an US american organization. Korea because GOM is a Korean organization? Also there are several layers of questions involved which all get bundled up into one giant pile.
a) Did Naniwa break any rule when probe rushing and obviously behaving in manner that indicates that he was throwing the game?
b) Does that even matter in terms of him receiving the code S spot? Are there any conduct rules in the agreement between MLG and GOM concerning the exchange players.
c) GOM did a format change. Was there any rule of what would happen with outstanding code s spots after a format change? So where they even obliged to offer the spot to Naniwa in the first place?
d) Does GOM has any rules regarding general player conduct, that allows them to ban people without breaking any rules?
And before people start discussing these questions. Neither MLG, nor GOM seem to be interested to actually clarify any of these matters to the point of taking it to a court of law. Maybe they are having discussions about the whole situation but neither of them will gain anything by starting a mud-slinging contest in front of the community. Nobody is happy with what happened and everybody lost in the end.
What I think should be more discussed in the community is not whether or not Naniwa was mistreated, because that will remain a matter of opinion but whether or not it would be better to not play out these kind of matches.
And I'm also fully aware of the fact that this discussion will continue anyways. a. NO b. NO Naniwa broke NO Conduct of behavior rules. that would include cussing, physical harm. etcetera. c. OF COURSE they were obliged to give Naniwa the Code S spot.. d. That's a good question. But that player conduct can be a slippery slope. According to GOM themselves. Naniwa broke no explicit rule according to the contract and terms of service.
c. they were not, read one of the posts above and actually think about what MLG said in their announcement.
You are still ignoring the elephant in the room and focusing on completly irrelevant parts of the discussion.
|
On December 20 2011 00:10 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:51 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here. You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do... and I'm the one "talking BS?" Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway. Even if he did, it's completely hypothetical, because he doesn't seem to care. He could've fought through code A like most people have to, but he's not. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing. Besides, GOM is still seeding top MLG performers with their new system, Naniwa just got the boot because he was being immature. GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny. you are really making a mockery and joke out what player's expectations are. Because Players and MLG expected the highest ranked non code S player to get the Code S spot for the next GSL season.. IT absolutely a Contractual Agreement. And MLG even stated that it was a contractual agreement. Please stop lying and giving excuses for MLG and GOM"s coverup and deceitful lies to the public. They are straight out lying about this incident to legally clear their names if players try to sue MLG for misleading the players. Show nested quote +You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do Just because they say they are innocent doesn't mean they are innocent. They clearly broke a contract made between MLG, GOM and the Players.. I am starting to think you work for GomTV or something. Show nested quote +Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If a party breaks a contract, it is the up to the other party to get just for a party breaking an agreement. Clearly Naniwa does have the odds whether you like to think it or not. It has nothing to do with WHAT YOU THINK BUSTER. Show nested quote +MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing They didn't hype a seed. They clearly Dictated to all literate speaking English language speakers that the CODE S spot WILL be given to the Highest ranked Non code S Player. What part of that English Don't you understand? Show nested quote + GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny. that a very presumptious statement from you. GOM.TV can make whatever tournament they'd like. But in order for their program to succeed, players and the corporate body needs to make a binding contract that CLEARLY state the rules of the tournament and behavior. IF either party breaks the terms of the agreement,it is right of the plaintiff to state the breach of contract. The defendent must state the reasons why they did not break the contract. IN this example the Defendent is Clearly in the wrong and would be punished in the court of Law.. that would be GomTV and MLG. Players would win the suit. But Clearly Naniwa needs money to pay for lawyers, and that is why naniwa is realistically not going to go after GOMTV and MLG for their breach of conduct naniwa wouldnt have a chance to win a suit due to his own actions which constitute a breach of contractual obligations . as i said statutory law is part of a contract aslong as its not excluded
|
On December 20 2011 00:10 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:51 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here. You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do... and I'm the one "talking BS?" Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway. Even if he did, it's completely hypothetical, because he doesn't seem to care. He could've fought through code A like most people have to, but he's not. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing. Besides, GOM is still seeding top MLG performers with their new system, Naniwa just got the boot because he was being immature. GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny. you are really making a mockery and joke out what player's expectations are. Because Players and MLG expected the highest ranked non code S player to get the Code S spot for the next GSL season.. IT absolutely a Contractual Agreement. And MLG even stated that it was a contractual agreement. Please stop lying and giving excuses for MLG and GOM"s coverup and deceitful lies to the public. They are straight out lying about this incident to legally clear their names if players try to sue MLG for misleading the players. Show nested quote +You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do Just because they say they are innocent doesn't mean they are innocent. They clearly broke a contract made between MLG, GOM and the Players.. I am starting to think you work for GomTV or something. Show nested quote +Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If a party breaks a contract, it is the up to the other party to get just for a party breaking an agreement. Clearly Naniwa does have the odds whether you like to think it or not. It has nothing to do with WHAT YOU THINK BUSTER. Show nested quote +MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing They didn't hype a seed. They clearly Dictated to all literate speaking English language speakers that the CODE S spot WILL be given to the Highest ranked Non code S Player. What part of that English Don't you understand? Show nested quote + GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny. that a very presumptious statement from you. GOM.TV can make whatever tournament they'd like. But in order for their program to succeed, players and the corporate body needs to make a binding contract that CLEARLY state the rules of the tournament and behavior. IF either party breaks the terms of the agreement,it is right of the plaintiff to state the breach of contract. The defendent must state the reasons why they did not break the contract. IN this example the Defendent is Clearly in the wrong and would be punished in the court of Law.. that would be GomTV and MLG. Players would win the suit. But Clearly Naniwa needs money to pay for lawyers, and that is why naniwa is realistically not going to go after GOMTV and MLG for their breach of conduct
1. there is no contract for you to site, avoid the baseless assumptions.
2. Again, there is no contract for you to cite, so stop making arguments off of documents you've never seen
3. Clearly? Clearly what? Clearly he can sue this imaginary contract you're citing? Managing to piss of MLG and cause even more problems with Quantic? You think he's going to waste his time and money fighting one of the largest tournies in the world when he explicitly agreed with his punishment and apologized? You're arguing so many assumptions it's ridiculous. Your arguments have no basis in reality.
4. They stated code s "status," not seed. And it's well within their rights to deny anyone from it. It's also well within their rights to change the seeding system as MLG admitted.
5. Okay, the guy imaging a super contract that has no basis in reality is accusing me of presumptions... lol. Again, until you can produce a contract your argument has no basis in reality. See: Useless.
|
On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime?
No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
|
On December 20 2011 00:28 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything. Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
|
On December 20 2011 00:15 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before.. You are absolutly 100% wrong. Sorry there is nothing else i can say in regards to your post. I have read it and the reply to my previous post one page earlier twice now and i literally cannot believe what you are writing. You throw around a number of absolutes which make absolutly no sense and are incorrect. I'll make a list for your convenience since it seems you lack ANY understanding of legal issues: 1) A contract is not a press release. The announcement on the MLG and Gom homepages about the LXP were press releases. In other words they are paraphrases of contracts to spare us the horror of legalese. In addition to that they by definition do not include any private clauses which may or may not be part of the contract (we don't know). Literally the only people who have seen the contract itself are MLG and Gom representatives (most likely some lawyers as well). 2) A contract is a contract so far so good. Contracts CAN and in fact ARE changed after being signed almost daily. There are protections and agreements against changes which might negatively influence one party or the other but that is something MLG and Gom need to discuss between themselves. Remember the MLG statement? "but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." That explicitly states that Gom CAN adjust what kind of placement Naniwa earned (which is exactly what the Gom announcement SAYS THEY DID). 3) Naniwa has NO CONTRACT WITH GOM. At best he is a 3rd party to the LXP contract (a benefactor in legal speaking). Any actions of his in regards to breaking a possible contract are absolutly irrelevant to legal discussions. The only question is if Gom has fullfilled their obligations to MLG!! not to Naniwa. The only party NANIWA could sue would be MLG if he feels his price for his providence achievement was not fullfilled properly. MLG would then need to sue Gom (which they cannot according to their statement, see above). Under no legal circumstances whatsoever did Naniwa have a contract for a GSL code S spot with Gom. Contractual Law simply doesn't work that way. 4) Your list of rules is nice, even if it is completly irrelevant to the questions our posts are discussing. You did not include all rules which is bad enough, but more importantly you are arguing something which has absolutly nothing to do with Gom's statement. I'll clarify their statement with a simply list since you seem to be unable to read: a) Naniwa got a spot in the Blizzard Cup from his 2nd place ranking in Providence. b) Gom considers the Blizzard Cup to be the equivalent of a Code S place. c) According to his behaviour Gom does not feel Naniwa deserves an additional invite to January Code S. Is that in any way unclear? Now you can argue either about b or c. Do not mix up the two or your posts simply loose strength.
1) A contract is not a press release. The announcement on the MLG and Gom homepages about the LXP were press releases. In other words they are paraphrases of contracts to spare us the horror of legalese. In addition to that they by definition do not include any private clauses which may or may not be part of the contract (we don't know). Literally the only people who have seen the contract itself are MLG and Gom representatives (most likely some lawyers as well).
Please,spare me. IF the code S spot wasn't guaranteed in the contract, why WOULD MLG promise to give it highest ranked non code S player in the first place.. Seriously you make it so freaking shrouded with mystery.. THere is no mystery. MLG lied.. GOM TV broke their promises... Naniwa has a right to sue
) A contract is a contract so far so good. Contracts CAN and in fact ARE changed after being signed almost daily. There are protections and agreements against changes which might negatively influence one party or the other but that is something MLG and Gom need to discuss between themselves. Remember the MLG statement? "but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." That explicitly states that Gom CAN adjust what kind of placement Naniwa earned (which is exactly what the Gom announcement SAYS THEY DID).
Yes, they are called addendums and Clauses. MLG also explicitly said that the CODE S spot will be given to the highest ranked NON code S player at MLG Providence. If there were SUCH abilities to change the terms of the agreement. MLG would would have communicated these exceptions and clauses to such agreements and promises. GEEZE
Naniwa has NO CONTRACT WITH GOM. At best he is a 3rd party to the LXP contract (a benefactor in legal speaking). Any actions of his in regards to breaking a possible contract are absolutly irrelevant to legal discussions. The only question is if Gom has fullfilled their obligations to MLG!! not to Naniwa. The only party NANIWA could sue would be MLG if he feels his price for his providence achievement was not fullfilled properly. MLG would then need to sue Gom (which they cannot according to their statement, see above).
No, EVERY player at MLG had an agreement. that the highest ranked player in the Providence tournament would be given a Code S spot by GOM TV. Naniwa has to go after MLG first for MLG breaking the terms and conditions of the contract.
And MLG would need to go after GOM GSL for reneging on GOM.TV's agreement with MLG to alot a code S spot at the MLG tournament.
GOM has not fulfilled their promise to MLG. And MLG did not fulfill the promise made to the participating players.
This potential reward of earning a code S spot could be 50,000 dollars. It really is a clusterfuck what GOM.TV did. And Naniwa has absolutely a right to go after MLG for lying to him about the promise of a Code S spot
|
On December 20 2011 00:21 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. Which specific contract are you referencing here? Edit: Also, breaking no explicit rules means they're saying he broke implicit rules. You don't have to say "No having sex in the booth" to then argue that if someone does have sex in the booth they're going to be punished by GOM. Anyone being remotely reasonable would know that probe rushing is unacceptable and a breach of expected behaviour. Getting reprimanded for something like that is perfectly acceptable.
there don't even has to be a contract - oral agreemend, has also be reliable. no prob to go on court with that. but actually MLG stated official about Naniwas recievement of Code S seed.
"You don't have to say "No having sex in the booth" to then argue that if someone does have sex in the booth they're going to be punished by GOM."
sorry but this is unbelievebal stupid, can't describe it.
|
On December 20 2011 00:17 BlueSpace wrote:
I think you guys are discussing about legal matters without the necessary expertise or documents. In which country would that even be ruled on? USA because MLG is an US american organization. Korea because GOM is a Korean organization? Also there are several layers of questions involved which all get bundled up into one giant pile.
Actually i can answer that question :D
The only contract which Naniwa might use to sue anyone is the MLG player contract he signed before playing in Providence. That would be within US jurisdiction.
He never had any contractual relationship with GomTV in regards to the rumoured Code S spot. The only party which has such a relationship and which therefor might consider legal action is MLG, but as we all know in their statement they said: "but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." Therefor they clearly do not see GomTV in breach of contract so any legal action would be a pipedream.
If Naniwa had emailed GomTV 20 days ago about the Code S spot, and GomTV had sent a response saying he doesn't have a spot for Code S january but they are considering him for an invite this entire discussion would not have happened.
If they had sent back a player contract for him to sign, we would be having an entirely different discussion.
|
On December 20 2011 00:28 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything. Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
No you are the one that are misrepresenting the facts buster. Gom.TV robbed Naniwa's opportunity to earn a big prize. that is a BIG deal. If Naniwa did break a serious rule like cheating or stealing, yes GOM.TV has an absolute right to revoke and break the contract made between Naniwa and Gom.TV. but Naniwa broke NO known rules. Gom.TV has even admitted that Naniwa broke no Known rules.
Really are you from Austria. because i Don't hear a neutral point of view regarding this issue. you seem to side for
the big corporation on this issue. Trust me, they don't need your sympathy.
|
On December 20 2011 00:31 chatuka wrote:
No, EVERY player at MLG had an agreement. that the highest ranked player in the Providence tournament would be given a Code S spot by GOM TV. Naniwa has to go after MLG first for MLG breaking the terms and conditions of the contract.
And MLG would need to go after GOM GSL for reneging on GOM.TV's agreement with MLG to alot a code S spot at the MLG tournament.
If every player had this contract regarding a Code S spot, it must by definition be in the public domain.
Please post it to clear up confusion if you're so clearly correct.
On December 20 2011 00:33 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:21 FuzzyJAM wrote:On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. Which specific contract are you referencing here? Edit: Also, breaking no explicit rules means they're saying he broke implicit rules. You don't have to say "No having sex in the booth" to then argue that if someone does have sex in the booth they're going to be punished by GOM. Anyone being remotely reasonable would know that probe rushing is unacceptable and a breach of expected behaviour. Getting reprimanded for something like that is perfectly acceptable. there don't even has to be a contract - oral agreemend, has also be reliable. no prob to go on court with that. but actually MLG stated official about Naniwas recievement of Code S seed. "You don't have to say "No having sex in the booth" to then argue that if someone does have sex in the booth they're going to be punished by GOM."sorry but this is unbelievebal stupid, can't describe it.
A legally binding agreement is by definition a contract. If people posting here know of this contract, it must be in the public domain. Why are they not therefore posting it?
As for "unbelievebal stupid", it was intended to illustrate a point which you don't appear to have any counter to. Just because a rule is not explicit doesn't mean it's not a valid rule.
|
On December 20 2011 00:30 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:28 Tula wrote:On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything. Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you. Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing.
We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
|
On December 20 2011 00:30 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:28 Tula wrote:On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything. Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you. Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
official statements from MLG and oral agreements from their tourney admins are not reliable?
no need for a contract.
|
On December 20 2011 00:25 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:10 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:51 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here. You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do... and I'm the one "talking BS?" Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway. Even if he did, it's completely hypothetical, because he doesn't seem to care. He could've fought through code A like most people have to, but he's not. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing. Besides, GOM is still seeding top MLG performers with their new system, Naniwa just got the boot because he was being immature. GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny. you are really making a mockery and joke out what player's expectations are. Because Players and MLG expected the highest ranked non code S player to get the Code S spot for the next GSL season.. IT absolutely a Contractual Agreement. And MLG even stated that it was a contractual agreement. Please stop lying and giving excuses for MLG and GOM"s coverup and deceitful lies to the public. They are straight out lying about this incident to legally clear their names if players try to sue MLG for misleading the players. You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do Just because they say they are innocent doesn't mean they are innocent. They clearly broke a contract made between MLG, GOM and the Players.. I am starting to think you work for GomTV or something. Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If a party breaks a contract, it is the up to the other party to get just for a party breaking an agreement. Clearly Naniwa does have the odds whether you like to think it or not. It has nothing to do with WHAT YOU THINK BUSTER. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing They didn't hype a seed. They clearly Dictated to all literate speaking English language speakers that the CODE S spot WILL be given to the Highest ranked Non code S Player. What part of that English Don't you understand? GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny. that a very presumptious statement from you. GOM.TV can make whatever tournament they'd like. But in order for their program to succeed, players and the corporate body needs to make a binding contract that CLEARLY state the rules of the tournament and behavior. IF either party breaks the terms of the agreement,it is right of the plaintiff to state the breach of contract. The defendent must state the reasons why they did not break the contract. IN this example the Defendent is Clearly in the wrong and would be punished in the court of Law.. that would be GomTV and MLG. Players would win the suit. But Clearly Naniwa needs money to pay for lawyers, and that is why naniwa is realistically not going to go after GOMTV and MLG for their breach of conduct naniwa wouldnt have a chance to win a suit due to his own actions which constitute a breach of contractual obligations . as i said statutory law is part of a contract aslong as its not excluded
He didn't break any rules, thus he break any contractual obligations. Your point is moot regarding Naniwa..
|
United States5162 Posts
On December 20 2011 00:35 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:30 Keyboard Warrior wrote:On December 20 2011 00:28 Tula wrote:On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything. Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you. Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it. Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
