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United States5162 Posts
On December 20 2011 01:06 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:45 Myles wrote:On December 20 2011 00:39 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:36 Myles wrote:On December 20 2011 00:35 Assirra wrote:On December 20 2011 00:30 Keyboard Warrior wrote:On December 20 2011 00:28 Tula wrote:On December 20 2011 00:18 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:
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Ok but now the question.
What would he gain from it?
The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community. GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law. you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything. Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you. Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it. Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract. Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it. no, lot's of people here agree with me.. it people like you and other non thinking people that can't seem to read between the lines and get to the proper conclusion that is muddying the issue.. This issue is so simple, yet you make it more complicated than it really is.. we are not talking about a billion dollar patent issue withing the US jurisdiction involving behemoths like IBM or Sony. I don't care who agrees with you. A lot of people disagree, too. The issue is directly related to what the contract states. If the contract states that GOM can change anything they want at any time then they can do that. If the agreement players sign before they enter MLG explains how the prizes are awarded then nothing can happen to MLG. I assume, as you're doing throughout your posts, that the contracts do include these clauses. With that being said, if someone really wanted to sue MLG, I suppose they could say they falsely advertised, but that's about it. I don't care if you don't agree with me. It is you that said that no one agreeed with me. i disproved that stupid notion you brought up and made you look foolish for saying it. I already re-iterated that if GOM TV had the right to change the terms of the conditions of contract of the LXT. MLG would not have been able to give a concrete promise to ALL the players of MLG Providence that a Code S seed would be given out to the highest ranked non code S player. If that was true, tht MLG made no promises regarding the Code S seeding, i don't think players or Naniwa would be upset about what happened NOW. Because everybody at that time knew FULL well what the terms were and they agreed to it. But because MLG and GOM reniged on this agreement of the LXT.. that is a clear violation of the contractual agreement made to the players of MLG Providence. in which players have a right in court for damages to the players time, money, and gaming ability.. whatever.. Really, this is a non issue. But if you people continue to want to argue this futile subject go ahead.. It's just that I will never agree or come to your side of your views. Good day. hopefully everything else works out though, in the rest of your life.
As I said, MLG may be liable for false advertisement since the press release did declare they would get a code S seed. However, when the players agree to MLG's terms and conditions it would certainly include the stipulations around the code S seed. That makes all the difference. If they stated in that agreement that the code S spot was conditional then there's not much the players can do.
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On December 20 2011 01:14 farnham wrote:
how the hell is the gom mlg deal trilateral
did all korean players and all mlg players, including potential open bracket players?
the contract is a contract to the benefit of a third party at best
Tri-lateral
players
MLG
GOM
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On December 20 2011 01:06 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:01 chatuka wrote:You still haven't consulted a dictionary about the idiocy you are spouting right? And you are still happily ignoring the complete basics of contractual law while asking Naniwa to sue someone.
really, if you can pontificate endlessly about what a contract is please do it.. honestly you really need a gut check. because your ego is getting out of hand. Frankly you are amusing at best. actually you're actually more amusing than I am.. really I am amazed at your level of sheer stupidity regarding simple Law. Your first paragraph is very funny. "Please spare me" i can almost imagine you sitting somewhere with your head in the sand. Literally NOTHING in a press release is ever that simple in a real life contract. Everybody knows that if they ever had anything to do with one. sure whatever sweety pie.. whatever makes you feeel better. Because useless ad hominem attacks are quite amusing to read. I must respectfully disagree with anything you have said. Your entire argument is built on an assumption i simply cannot agree with, and frankly no one who has the slightest clue about law or PR work will agree with. That being that the agreement between MLG and Gom was so simple they could fit it on 2 pages of paper. At least you admit how much of a simpleton you truly are. Because really, it's not hard to read phone contracts, insurance contracts, governmental contracts. really. As long as you can understand and read, the difficultly in understanding contractual obligations is quite efforless. Unless you are from Tulea. LoL that is the first halfway intelligent sentence in your post. Of course you are paraphrasing what i said without being clear unlike my original sentence.
Naniwa and every other player had a contract with MLG.
MLG has a contract with Gom.
No player has a contract with Gom.
Actually someone else said this.. And this what I think as well. It is you who thinks that going after MLG is a pointless and baseless attempt. And thankyou for you administrating ad hominem mud sling fests. You are proving to be quite the argumentative P###. I am not paraphrasing anything you're saying. because anything you are saying isn't that coherent, let alone intelligent or sensical. So far so good. Now we could argue if Gom has fullfilled their obligation to MLG, Mlg thinks they did (i have quoted it three times this page that should be enough).
Next we can argue if Naniwa feels MLG has fullfilled their obligation to him, for this point we do not have a definite answer, but judging from his silence and his interview in Live on three he feels that the Blizzard Cup was a worthy tournament to get a spot in.
If he doesn't feel that he could try legal action against MLG, i wouldn't give him much of a chance, but he could try it. If he won then MLG would need to compensate him (out of interest what exactly are the supposed damages he took?) but they would have no standing to pursue legal action see above for details.
Finally for the last time, either produce the mythical contract you are referring to, or please shut up and get a clue.
NO MLG did NOT fulfill their obligation to him, you simpleton. What part of reading don't you understand. Do you not understand English? I mean is that language too difficult for you to comprehend? really, i am questioning your sanity. since you seem to willfully ignore evidence right in front of your that said that MLG promised a code S spot to Naniwa and regiged on it because GOM broke the LXT agreement which is a contract. Seriously if you are going to argue what acontract is , you have bigger problems than I had imagined. I don't care what you think if naniwa has a chance or not.. It's what the truth of the legal feasibility is. I really don't care either I just state the obvious that Naniwa has a legal shot at taking MLG or Gom TV to court for reneging on their promises to give Naniwa a code S spot. Honestly, how far in grade school did you get manage to earn? As for producing this mythical contract, it's called the LXT.. that is the contract itself. On top of it, that German guy said that MLG verbally gave a contract to Naniwa. which in the court of law is probably evidence of a legal agreement, if recorded on video or tape. As fro Verbal agreements I don't know how concrete a verbal agreement stands in court. that I can research more often... as for the rest of your babble.. please just give up,, you are disappointing me with your inane mumbling. i am done with you.. seriously we will never agre with each other. I honestly don't care what your opinion on the matter of this subject as well This is obviously getting quite heated. Does anybody have access to the actual contract or is this entire discussion really just based of press releases from MLG and GOM?
Nope, noone here has any info about the contract except what they love to think.
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Oral contract=
n agreement made with spoken words and either no writing or only partially written. An oral contract is just as valid as a written agreement. The main problem with oral contracts is proving its existence or the terms. As one wag observed: "An oral contract is as good as the paper it's written on." An oral contract is often provable by action taken by one or both parties which is obviously in reliance on the existence of a contract. The other significant difference between oral and written contracts is that the time to sue for breach of an oral contract (the statute of limitations) is sometimes shorter. For example, California's limitation is two years for oral compared to four for written, Connecticut and Washington three for oral rather than six for written, and Georgia four for oral instead of 20 for written. (
So a tape or video recorder would be sufficient.
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On December 20 2011 01:19 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:14 farnham wrote:
how the hell is the gom mlg deal trilateral
did all korean players and all mlg players, including potential open bracket players?
the contract is a contract to the benefit of a third party at best Tri-lateral players MLG GOM
so when did every player of mlg or gsl agree to this? its a stipulatio alteri not a tripartite contract
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On December 20 2011 01:25 chatuka wrote:
Oral contract=
n agreement made with spoken words and either no writing or only partially written. An oral contract is just as valid as a written agreement. The main problem with oral contracts is proving its existence or the terms. As one wag observed: "An oral contract is as good as the paper it's written on." An oral contract is often provable by action taken by one or both parties which is obviously in reliance on the existence of a contract. The other significant difference between oral and written contracts is that the time to sue for breach of an oral contract (the statute of limitations) is sometimes shorter. For example, California's limitation is two years for oral compared to four for written, Connecticut and Washington three for oral rather than six for written, and Georgia four for oral instead of 20 for written. (
So a tape or video recorder would be sufficient.
So, you're stating MLG gave a contract to something they didn't have the legal authority to give? How exactly is he going to sue for that? They never had the ability to give the seed. It's all irrelevant anyway because your entire argument is hypothetical and not based in reality because no one in their right mind is going to sue MLG over this. Your arguments take place in the realm of fiction.
I love the backtracking you're doing. Oh, it was an official contract, nvm there's a verbal contract!
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In order to form a contract, the parties must agree on what either party will do under the terms of the contract; they must have the intention to form contractual relations; and there must be consideration. It is immaterial whether the contract is verbal, in writing, or partially verbal and partially written, although common sense says that recording the agreement in writing creates a document that may be referred to for its terms in the event of a dispute between the parties. Obviously, this is particularly important when disputes arise in respect of the agreement, whether the dispute arises in respect to the work to be performed or sums to be paid under the agreement. Both verbal contracts and written contracts are equally legally binding contracts, subject to the existence of the usual requirements for formation of a contract.
Certainty and Completeness of Agreement
Agreement is reached between contracting parties when an offer is made by one party which is clearly and unequivocally accepted by the other party. The offer must be sufficiently certain so as the parties know what is to be performed, and the agreement must be complete. An agreement is incomplete when an essential term has not been agreed or there are further matters to be agreed. Agreements in principle are usually considered not to be complete, as are contracts expressly stated to be ‘subject to contract’. In deciding whether a contract is complete, a court will consider a contract to be formed when, from the viewpoint of an officious bystander, the parties have agreed in the same terms on the same subject matter.
Verbal Contracts
There is no legal impediment to the parties entering into a contract based on their conduct and verbal statements or representations. When parties agree the terms of the contract by verbal statements, the binding terms of the contract are more difficult to ascertain. Usually a court will look to the history of the statements made by the parties and the performance of the parties to obtain assistance in determining what was actually agreed by the parties. Where one person however has not performed their part of the bargain, and court is left to more uncertain means in reaching a decision. Draft contract documents, emails, letters and order forms may lend assistance to deciding the terms of a verbal agreement, and courts have used similar agreements with third parties to apply a standard of reasonableness in determining the terms of the contract in the absence of writing.
In the event that a party refuses to sign a contract, it is essential to write to the person and confirm the terms of the contract as they are understood, to provide a evidence at a later date as to the terms of the agreement reached. In the absence of any other evidence these communications are may be key in assisting the resolution of disputes relating to the terms of the contract. It may be useful to know that where an verbal agreement has been reached, which is later confirmed in writing but the written document does not properly record the terms, that it may be rectified using the doctrine of rectification.
Exceptions
There are exceptions to the general rule that contracts may be verbal, for instance in respect to employment contracts, tenacy agreements and contracts for consumer credit. In some instances where writing is required, a note or memorandum will be required. In the absence of such evidence of the contract, the agreement may be void, unenforceable, or unenforceable by only one party, or on the order of a court.
When players sign up for MLG.. They sign a Contract for the TOS. I expect the LXP, league exchange program is part of the contractual agreement between the two players. I could be wrong, but if the LXP was not included in the contractual agreement, one the player signs the MLG contract..
Then LXP is a fraud and misadvertising as someone as said at best.. Fraud and breach of contract at worst.
The LXP does sound like a contract between MLG and GOM. Once a player signs up for MLG tournament, they are automatically involved in the LXP due to its inclusive nature. Therefore, the LXP is a trilateral agreement between
the players, MLG and GOM.
Naniwa, though bad mannered did not break any rules as Gom has stated. I knew this as well, Gom didn't have to tell me.
Revoking Naniwa's GSL code S spot is a clear violation of the LXP that MLG has communicated to us, that the Providence highest ranked non code S player would receive the Code S spot.
there fore it is not up to GOM or MLG to change the rule ex Post Facto, after the fact, to arbitrarily make new rules that suits the needs of the Corporate body rather than adhering to the condictions set by the foundation of the contract which is obviously the LXP
hopefully that helps people donl't understand.
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On December 20 2011 01:35 chatuka wrote:
In order to form a contract, the parties must agree on what either party will do under the terms of the contract; they must have the intention to form contractual relations; and there must be consideration. It is immaterial whether the contract is verbal, in writing, or partially verbal and partially written, although common sense says that recording the agreement in writing creates a document that may be referred to for its terms in the event of a dispute between the parties. Obviously, this is particularly important when disputes arise in respect of the agreement, whether the dispute arises in respect to the work to be performed or sums to be paid under the agreement. Both verbal contracts and written contracts are equally legally binding contracts, subject to the existence of the usual requirements for formation of a contract.
Certainty and Completeness of Agreement
Agreement is reached between contracting parties when an offer is made by one party which is clearly and unequivocally accepted by the other party. The offer must be sufficiently certain so as the parties know what is to be performed, and the agreement must be complete. An agreement is incomplete when an essential term has not been agreed or there are further matters to be agreed. Agreements in principle are usually considered not to be complete, as are contracts expressly stated to be ‘subject to contract’. In deciding whether a contract is complete, a court will consider a contract to be formed when, from the viewpoint of an officious bystander, the parties have agreed in the same terms on the same subject matter.
Verbal Contracts
There is no legal impediment to the parties entering into a contract based on their conduct and verbal statements or representations. When parties agree the terms of the contract by verbal statements, the binding terms of the contract are more difficult to ascertain. Usually a court will look to the history of the statements made by the parties and the performance of the parties to obtain assistance in determining what was actually agreed by the parties. Where one person however has not performed their part of the bargain, and court is left to more uncertain means in reaching a decision. Draft contract documents, emails, letters and order forms may lend assistance to deciding the terms of a verbal agreement, and courts have used similar agreements with third parties to apply a standard of reasonableness in determining the terms of the contract in the absence of writing.
In the event that a party refuses to sign a contract, it is essential to write to the person and confirm the terms of the contract as they are understood, to provide a evidence at a later date as to the terms of the agreement reached. In the absence of any other evidence these communications are may be key in assisting the resolution of disputes relating to the terms of the contract. It may be useful to know that where an verbal agreement has been reached, which is later confirmed in writing but the written document does not properly record the terms, that it may be rectified using the doctrine of rectification.
Exceptions
There are exceptions to the general rule that contracts may be verbal, for instance in respect to employment contracts, tenacy agreements and contracts for consumer credit. In some instances where writing is required, a note or memorandum will be required. In the absence of such evidence of the contract, the agreement may be void, unenforceable, or unenforceable by only one party, or on the order of a court.
When players sign up for MLG.. They sign a Contract for the TOS. I expect the LXP, league exchange program is part of the contractual agreement between the two players. I could be wrong, but if the LXP was not included in the contractual agreement, one the player signs the MLG contract..
Then LXP is a fraud and misadvertising as someone as said at best.. Fraud and breach of contract at worst.
The LXP does sound like a contract between MLG and GOM. Once a player signs up for MLG tournament, they are automatically involved in the LXP due to its inclusive nature. Therefore, the LXP is a trilateral agreement between
the players, MLG and GOM.
Naniwa, though bad mannered did not break any rules as Gom has stated. I knew this as well, Gom didn't have to tell me.
Revoking Naniwa's GSL code S spot is a clear violation of the LXP that MLG has communicated to us, that the Providence highest ranked non code S player would receive the Code S spot.
there fore it is not up to GOM or MLG to change the rule ex Post Facto, after the fact, to arbitrarily make new rules that suits the needs of the Corporate body rather than adhering to the condictions set by the foundation of the contract which is obviously the LXP
hopefully that helps people donl't understand.
Irrelevant. They're not going to be legally liable for offering something through another organization when that organization legally changes the status as per the contract for the exchange program.
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On December 20 2011 01:32 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:25 chatuka wrote:
Oral contract=
n agreement made with spoken words and either no writing or only partially written. An oral contract is just as valid as a written agreement. The main problem with oral contracts is proving its existence or the terms. As one wag observed: "An oral contract is as good as the paper it's written on." An oral contract is often provable by action taken by one or both parties which is obviously in reliance on the existence of a contract. The other significant difference between oral and written contracts is that the time to sue for breach of an oral contract (the statute of limitations) is sometimes shorter. For example, California's limitation is two years for oral compared to four for written, Connecticut and Washington three for oral rather than six for written, and Georgia four for oral instead of 20 for written. (
So a tape or video recorder would be sufficient. So, you're stating MLG gave a contract to something they didn't have the legal authority to give? How exactly is he going to sue for that? They never had the ability to give the seed. It's all irrelevant anyway because your entire argument is hypothetical and not based in reality because no one in their right mind is going to sue MLG over this. Your arguments take place in the realm of fiction. I love the backtracking you're doing. Oh, it was an official contract, nvm there's a verbal contract!
I am finding out what an oral agreement is. It seems like an oral agreement is a VALID contract in the court of law if proven by video or tape recording. However exceptions to oral or verbal contract involve tenant, employment, agreements.
I am not sure if participating in MLG is considered employment or not. I don't know that.
If MLG did not have the authority to give the code S spot to Naniwa, they should have never have said it to Naniwa in the first place. that is called fraud and punishable by Jail or Severe FInes. But you do know the truth that MLG according to the agreements with the LXP was given authority. Since if MLG verbally told Naniwa that he had the code S spot. MLG based that verbal agreement premised on the League exhange program which was an agreement between GOM and MLG. However, Players the third party agreed to the LXP once they signed on that dotted line to play at MLG.
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On December 19 2011 22:51 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 22:39 mind_control wrote:
I'm going with Gom's announcement. he deserved to revoked his code S spot. he's just trash. Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 22:40 mind_control wrote:
If U don't know him, then keep support. but if U know him only inch by inch only a bit closer? then U will know why I'm saying this, and why Gom tv made this decision against to him. Only deserved! you know, most western societies (at least) try to don't be biased by personal/emotional issues, towards big things, like punishing someone nearly to end his career. the whole case is more about organizations stick to their rules, treating players and partners (MLG) and how they describe their "honor" (or professionalism) by the way they act. but ye, sounds like you don't care about being biased as fuck. "We don't believe that winning games and getting prizes make you a pro-gamer. We think that pro-gaming as a vocation should be about gamers competing for the victory, for the audience so they would get excited, and in all that, players job is to compete for the victory through that. We gave the seed to Quantic Gaming's protoss pro-gamer NaNiwa, not the Swedish youth Johan Lucchesi who plays the game well." - Mr.Chae
your being hallucinated.
hes actually defending naniwa like boss.
+ Show Spoiler +mind_control Korea (South). December 13 2011 23:24. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
nice article ever. I have to leave a comment here. well my opinion about his action on game # 9, when he started to game, and when he tried to put gg. it wasn't so arrogant or disrespectful all staffs/ gom tv people/his fans, or offend feeling bad against nestea at all. He was already 0-3 regardless his mood. his condition. regardless his purpose. Game comes always with luck/conditions. etc. Even though he put all his efforts all his life, there must be variable and not going with him unfortunately. We had thousands of fans for him before he starts that show 18:10. If he would win that games, the result could change all everything. but now he lost, we change back against him. I don't think people change. that's true. But because of that, I don't hate people. I understand every culture. and background. I understand this situation. I mean, I don't think this situation it's not his bad manner or disrespectful us. Did you think ever his schedule? He had run many games since Sep. even moved new countries, met many games. countries to countries. Do you think, he had enough journey whilst he having pause in Sweden? Didn't you read his twitter? Well, as you noticed already people(gamers) considered like a item to company(like col,qxg) they contact all the time. and it must be also stressed, maybe pro gamers don't have free time. and don't have free time enjoy themselves. After he spent 10 days after deamhack, he had to attend direct blizz cup, even changing such dramatic changing company. Didn't you think, how much he was under stress? Let's take a look one more time. Korea is mostly stress country. stress giving. more with manner-important taking. I don't think, there is pressure between naniwa-nestea. It must just certain temporary things in MLG in orlando. I cant believe people saying that issue even still now. Let's take a look in the mirror. Even we are such perfect. that we can be judged. If we see last 200-300 yrs ago genious. people didn't take as good, or genious at all. They had hard life. If I see naniwa, I see same thing. I'm not a fan or naniwa, I'm not fan of nestea either, I see all the time in the middle. I'm just saying what I see. and experienced. just people cant be perfect. Naniwa in the studio action. he just abstain. there wasn't anything disrespectful. Didnt you see his tears/eyes via youtube. when he says to you guys to fan. I could see his real heart. and how much he's thanksful to his team/fans And how much he think so important and want to communicate with you guys.
Don't blame to him. He's also just a person. He's not a beast. He seems just cold but he just doesn't show. but you guys already show and edit lots of his data right ? I'm also understand korean newspaper against to him but. We didn't see so let's not judge. I just think, this happening just can regards as abstrain. like yes, football kick his ball into his goal. He must just tired, after long trip to meet new people(where are all koreans there) . Let's try to understand him as a person. Not just score/ or money or appearance. He's now in new country, new people in his young age.
I expect another succeed in his life again. I tried to mention his schedule to say his background. Hope you guys understand a little bit too. mind_control Korea (South). December 14 2011 05:09. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
have read all those twitters. im couch. and what nestea says..seems like nestea worked really hard dropping his birthday party too. They seem really work together. im/mvp couch all both. naniwa just dropped game bcs he knew, nestea will (and want) this game so much since last happening in orlando. Even though they seemed nice each other before the game start and naniwa showed in the interview with gom/tl. as officially. but naniwa had other thought in mind. He was tired, and he was thinking. (which is meaningless-> if I borrow his letter). Korean team is heavy/and even scarry, if they gather together. All their mention. and articles seems like. they are disappointed. they practiced hard for this. It's not about the gom rules. or naniwa here invited or not. They prefer respect this show is *shown* for fans. IM/MVP seem get together prefer more fans and manner. In the other hands, naniwa and other european players had their own individual thinking and style. So they really don't care other team thinking, even they have been to.
I have been both, so I cant say which team is better. because I experienced both, bad ways. I say just which I seeing as
objective and generally. Korean team can be also very bad. And what they saying is like (No one commanded to "Nestea", hey you practed to show fans this hard, even dropping your birthday party" in the other hands, Naniwa had interview with skype with TL and 2 hours slept before the game started, and flew 17 hours twice flight changed get to korea from sweden after 10 days vacation, get stucked together with new people(who are all koreans) Maybe there must be also haters, communication problems.
I just think korean people think, this way should be just "This way". And europen people think, many "creative way". Any fan/people judge/talk like gossip or disappointed.
Well, I'm also disappointed. This story not expected me either. Kinda of ugly I guess. But life/social like this I guess.
I just so sorry for Nestea. (Nestea seems also nice/cool person too. happy birthday to you and congraturation to be a "father" and be happy your wife). And so sorry for all Gom staffs. <- Who really worked/prepared so hard all this celebrations.
So sorry for all milions fans from all over the worlds. I also expected Naniwa show his power/ability in this bilizz cup.
Well, so sorry for his power just limited after his 4th game(I guess he was tired, and wanted to have relax)
Just so sorry for keeping talking who are all disappointed(Not happy) who keeping saying/blogging even though the time
is finished like 9 hours now.
Cheer up~! mind_control Korea (South). December 14 2011 20:55. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
It's kinda of weird to me, Noone pushed to the Nestea, " Hey drop the birthday Party, U practice for blizzcup there will be 4 matches". Naniwa had vacation and flew long distance even changing twice airplanes and even had interviews with TL/and Gom etc. And he changed team no matter what it was his want or Not. This is really Korean typical issue, when they get together, they can do Anything, pushing someone else Out, Because they just don't like it.
I saw all their twitters last night, it just was common letters, Korean must be very disppointed, but as a person/individual, I also regard that also just their own individual common dialogue, it just was happening. It's not easy to play 5-6 matches/ a day it was even evening. Naniwa just getting adjust himself new country, Do you think, he must hang out here new place? He just came here to new career, I don't think he just wants only money <- this must be only Gom's opinion. He just social awkward like you guys saying. maybe sick. Buy this is only he wants. Only he dumped up his 4th match, Code-S seed is revoked? This is total revenge from nestea and Dong-Hoon, Kang all the his team then. I thought he getting stick together each other well then. I don't know what was the reason of Couch Kang refused him to be there though. from my eyes they seem all every each one kool, but there must be something unwelcome naniwa inside there, and even though there are so many people surrounded there naniwa, there must be something making naniwa so lonely and cold.
I know's naniwas's problem. but you think, this will be the reason that he should be code-S seed revoked alternative making to Sen??
Grew up guys, open eyes, we cant make it because we got hurt, and he just dumped us up, unlike our hopening & expectation. Read that - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
I think, you guys prefer wants money, I don't find any aggresive or threaten from his action with the match with nestea game # 9 yesterday evening.
I think, you guys prefer want Respect & Fame than Naniwa.
I hope this can be assured for naniwa, as long as I know this is all his hope and aim to Korea. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:11. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
ridicolous. why the people don't discuss when the game was there, but saying after game is finished now? It's deferently childish & over crying like same like the scene at Orland at MLG, when nestea's couch complained to the admin when naniwa wanted to have break for 15 min lol. Game is done, nothing against the rule. Korean people seem like, if they are loose/or feel not good "Mama, this guy done me to bad" pleae do harsh for me." Like this. Thie group noone think about the guy's efforts or how was his routin or something at all. How pitty. The Korean group it's huge. I just see,,sigh*. Hope maybe it's can be reassured, like I see this 40 vs 60 % now. Like we have still huge fan of Nani.
I have to point out the Gom brought the their rule here -> - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
If I translate with my own version : When the player tries violent action to the opponent or the watchers with his violent action during the match.
My query : Did he stand up? Did he something put on or throw out or something ? None- Korean twitter even twists that
he was his hands on his chin or something hahaha.
No matter what he's doing, the young judges think this guy is not acceptable to them. how sad. But Nani/Quantic Gaming
also has right to read the rule/rights clearly as litterally if it's right. But as I see this is totally wrong. Because as I see
his action wasn't violent at all ) mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:20. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
And I have to say, Korean people think / and regards a somone's action and twists their behavior is unacceptable and kick out, if they don't like. If their eyes out of this activity. Just Don't like. But Quantic Gaming & Nani Need to know read* this rule if they mentioned this rules out suddenly after the gaming so harsh in public and to all his fans and here. Make us understand At least as litterally. As I see those sentence, I don't understand at all. As I see, he just stated carlmy.
Korean people have to stop, if they don't like kick someone out. this should stopped out. Not pointed out, he's every details behavior. Look at themselves. How korean people have such bad reputations also. Korean people have to stop if someons behavior isn't fit to them or different blame to them. or compare. They'll never grow up. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:26. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I mean, as a progamer, he was awaring all those rules. he wasn't stupid at all. It seems like all conspiracy to me. All ruin to somone's efforts Now. It's now more released nestea's and korean teams's feeling to do this?
Revenge making more revenge. Nothing making comfortable.
Gom presented this after the game is finished & showed up. Spectators also suprised and which was the unexpected us to,
too.
If it's tha arbeitary then, nani and the players should have know the changable rules before the all game set.
And the 10th prize should have delivered to him as well.
There should be nothing grudge each other. if they really understand what "Professionalism" is. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:29. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I really hate Korean people think this way should in -> this way, Otherwise they kick that out. lol -_- mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 04:12. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I still don't get it. I don't know who is Mr. che but just seems like reading all this thread and make his announcement just well packaged. Where is his problem? I could regonized naniwa was total awful tired before the match #9 is started. And knew something gonna happend. And he was attend the game maybe just rude*. But that's all that he can do. As I can say many times. People are not perfect. The game was already 0-3. And it was very late. He doesn't know the other fan. or the system rolling. Like he doesn't admin this fan page at all. He just done what he can do all everything. He doesn't ignore korean people. doesn't look down nestea or Gom staffs. Don' you think, we just think, korean, oh, he's racist. Oh, he looks down at us. Oh he plays with us. Don't you think, it just all own your thoughts? Naniwa never thought like that maybe.
It just seems like that way, because we didn't see that guy here in korea. because we all same, wearing same uniform. we have to have all same ettitude. we grew up like this way. in same education. same background. OMG. how can you this young guy kill in this way.
This is really Not alright.
Don't put your priviate opnion's feeling to this a person. who is just from sweden who starts only new career here.
so all this love goes to trash can? what a waste....
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On December 20 2011 01:32 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:25 chatuka wrote:
Oral contract=
n agreement made with spoken words and either no writing or only partially written. An oral contract is just as valid as a written agreement. The main problem with oral contracts is proving its existence or the terms. As one wag observed: "An oral contract is as good as the paper it's written on." An oral contract is often provable by action taken by one or both parties which is obviously in reliance on the existence of a contract. The other significant difference between oral and written contracts is that the time to sue for breach of an oral contract (the statute of limitations) is sometimes shorter. For example, California's limitation is two years for oral compared to four for written, Connecticut and Washington three for oral rather than six for written, and Georgia four for oral instead of 20 for written. (
So a tape or video recorder would be sufficient. So, you're stating MLG gave a contract to something they didn't have the legal authority to give? How exactly is he going to sue for that? They never had the ability to give the seed.
Oh that's easy. Then MLG can be sued for fraud.
It's all irrelevant anyway because your entire argument is hypothetical and not based in reality because no one in their right mind is going to sue MLG over this. Your arguments take place in the realm of fiction.
oh, you are intelligent right?
i think you want to say this. this is cool man.
+ Show Spoiler +you literaly revealed, that we are talking about something that has not taken place (yet). we tricked all others but you damn intelligent guy.
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rrelevant. They're not going to be legally liable for offering something through another organization when that organization legally changes the status as per the contract for the exchange program.
Well that organization, never had the legal authority to change the agreement. Changing the agreement, when not agreed upon is a breach of contract.
, GoMTV. they broke the rules just to punish Naniwa.. GOM should have just reprimanded Naniwa and give him his Code S spot. But GOM was in no right or position to reverse the 2011 LXP agreement, unless Naniwa broke a serious rulewhen Naniwa signed for MLG and BLizzard Cup contracts. Every players signs and agreement. that is the written contract. The LXP must be included in the contract that all players sign at MLG.
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On December 20 2011 01:40 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:32 Hubris wrote:On December 20 2011 01:25 chatuka wrote:
Oral contract=
n agreement made with spoken words and either no writing or only partially written. An oral contract is just as valid as a written agreement. The main problem with oral contracts is proving its existence or the terms. As one wag observed: "An oral contract is as good as the paper it's written on." An oral contract is often provable by action taken by one or both parties which is obviously in reliance on the existence of a contract. The other significant difference between oral and written contracts is that the time to sue for breach of an oral contract (the statute of limitations) is sometimes shorter. For example, California's limitation is two years for oral compared to four for written, Connecticut and Washington three for oral rather than six for written, and Georgia four for oral instead of 20 for written. (
So a tape or video recorder would be sufficient. So, you're stating MLG gave a contract to something they didn't have the legal authority to give? How exactly is he going to sue for that? They never had the ability to give the seed. It's all irrelevant anyway because your entire argument is hypothetical and not based in reality because no one in their right mind is going to sue MLG over this. Your arguments take place in the realm of fiction. I love the backtracking you're doing. Oh, it was an official contract, nvm there's a verbal contract! I am finding out what an oral agreement is. It seems like an oral agreement is a VALID contract in the court of law if proven by video or tape recording. However exceptions to oral or verbal contract involve tenant, employment, agreements. I am not sure if participating in MLG is considered employment or not. I don't know that. If MLG did not have the authority to give the code S spot to Naniwa, they should have never have said it to Naniwa in the first place. that is called fraud and punishable by Jail or Severe FInes. But you do know the truth that MLG according to the agreements with the LXP was given authority. Since if MLG verbally told Naniwa that he had the code S spot. MLG based that verbal agreement premised on the League exhange program which was an agreement between GOM and MLG. However, Players the third party agreed to the LXP once they signed on that dotted line to play at MLG.
They offered a service through GOM, they're not offering it themselves. They would not be liable if GOM changes what's available, which they have every legal right to do. Who's going to sue them anyway? What you're doing is pure slander, and is just as illegal as a breach of contract.
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On December 20 2011 01:01 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +You still haven't consulted a dictionary about the idiocy you are spouting right? And you are still happily ignoring the complete basics of contractual law while asking Naniwa to sue someone.
really, if you can pontificate endlessly about what a contract is please do it.. honestly you really need a gut check. because your ego is getting out of hand. actually you're actually more amusing than I am.. really I am amazed at your level of sheer stupidity regarding simple Law. Show nested quote +Your first paragraph is very funny. "Please spare me" i can almost imagine you sitting somewhere with your head in the sand. Literally NOTHING in a press release is ever that simple in a real life contract. Everybody knows that if they ever had anything to do with one. sure whatever sweety pie.. whatever makes you feeel better. Because useless ad hominem attacks are quite amusing to read. Show nested quote +I must respectfully disagree with anything you have said. Your entire argument is built on an assumption i simply cannot agree with, and frankly no one who has the slightest clue about law or PR work will agree with. That being that the agreement between MLG and Gom was so simple they could fit it on 2 pages of paper. At least you admit how much of a simpleton you truly are. Because really, it's not hard to read phone contracts, insurance contracts, governmental contracts. really. As long as you can understand and read, the difficultly in understanding contractual obligations is quite efforless. Unless you are from Tulea. LoL Show nested quote +that is the first halfway intelligent sentence in your post. Of course you are paraphrasing what i said without being clear unlike my original sentence.
Naniwa and every other player had a contract with MLG.
MLG has a contract with Gom.
No player has a contract with Gom.
Actually someone else said this.. And this what I think as well. It is you who thinks that going after MLG is a pointless and baseless attempt. And thankyou for you administrating ad hominem mud sling fests. You are proving to be quite the argumentative P###. I am not paraphrasing anything you're saying. because anything you are saying isn't that coherent, let alone intelligent or sensical. Show nested quote +So far so good. Now we could argue if Gom has fullfilled their obligation to MLG, Mlg thinks they did (i have quoted it three times this page that should be enough).
Next we can argue if Naniwa feels MLG has fullfilled their obligation to him, for this point we do not have a definite answer, but judging from his silence and his interview in Live on three he feels that the Blizzard Cup was a worthy tournament to get a spot in.
If he doesn't feel that he could try legal action against MLG, i wouldn't give him much of a chance, but he could try it. If he won then MLG would need to compensate him (out of interest what exactly are the supposed damages he took?) but they would have no standing to pursue legal action see above for details.
Finally for the last time, either produce the mythical contract you are referring to, or please shut up and get a clue.
NO MLG did NOT fulfill their obligation to him, you simpleton. What part of reading don't you understand. Do you not understand English? I mean is that language too difficult for you to comprehend? really, i am questioning your sanity. since you seem to willfully ignore evidence right in front of your that said that MLG promised a code S spot to Naniwa and regiged on it because GOM broke the LXT agreement which is a contract. Seriously if you are going to argue what acontract is , you have bigger problems than I had imagined. I don't care what you think if naniwa has a chance or not.. It's what the truth of the legal feasibility is. I really don't care either I just state the obvious that Naniwa has a legal shot at taking MLG or Gom TV to court for reneging on their promises to give Naniwa a code S spot. Honestly, how far in grade school did you get manage to earn? As for producing this mythical contract, it's called the LXT.. that is the contract itself. On top of it, that German guy said that MLG verbally gave a contract to Naniwa. which in the court of law is probably evidence of a legal agreement, if recorded on video or tape. As fro Verbal agreements I don't know how concrete a verbal agreement stands in court. that I can research more often... as for the rest of your babble.. please just give up,, you are disappointing me with your inane mumbling. i am done with you.. seriously we will never agre with each other. I honestly don't care what your opinion on the matter of this subject as well
Seriously?
We have not seen the LXT. All we have read are the press releases around it. According to MLG Gom has the right to adjust placement, that proves conclusively that there must be some clauses we have not seen yet.
We have no idea what the obligations from MLGs side are either, because yet again the player contract between MLG and it's players are private (or at least no one has posted one of them here).
You are repeatedly posting completly empty posts without any background whatsoever and then you complain and start to flame once i ask you to back it up with some facts?
Or at least to have a basic understanding of what a contract IS before you ask people to sue someone?
We started off with 2 pages of you stating that Naniwa should sue GOM, at least it seems we have finally killed that delusion. Now you are moving on to the next phase that Naniwa should sue MLG.
Depending on what their player contract says that might actually be an option. Wether it is a good option or not is beyond my knowledge (i doubt it), because again we have not read the player contract which designates the prices.
Wether an admin can actually enter into a verbal contract with Naniwa (the answer is most likely no, since he is not authorized to do so) would be a completly different debate.
For your information i have actually studied law, which is why this debate is pissing me off so badly. You have no clue and you insist on posting wrong information even after you have been corrected multiple times.
According to MLG they did in fact fulfill their obligation to him. They paid him his pricemoney and he got an invite to the Blizzard Cup from Gom. Anything else he feels he might be owed would be up to the wording of the specific contracts which none of us have SEEN. No matter how often you call me a simpleton or make funny jokes around my nick that is the legal truth of the matter.
Note for clarification: "i buy this car for 10k" "okay" is a verbal contract. "does this mean i have a code S slot" "Yes" is not. A written or spoken agreement, esp. one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law.
That is the shortest and most concise definition of contract i could find on the fly. For it to be a contract it requires mutual assent on an action or a transaction.
Naniwa asked a question, and the MLG admin gave him an answer to the best of his knowledge. He or the organisation he represents might owe Naniwa compensation for this missunderstanding (or they might not) but it definitly isn't a new verbal contract.
If you want to argue that the conversation was a clarification or modification of the existing written contract then again i can only refer you to the fact that we do not HAVE it so we don't know how it can be modified or clarified.
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I already told you tula, i'm done with you.. you are a brick wall
plus i gotta work, i'll talk about his later when i come back.. it was interesting to talk to some of the more enlightened members here.
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On December 20 2011 01:42 vertical101 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 22:51 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 22:39 mind_control wrote:
I'm going with Gom's announcement. he deserved to revoked his code S spot. he's just trash. On December 19 2011 22:40 mind_control wrote:
If U don't know him, then keep support. but if U know him only inch by inch only a bit closer? then U will know why I'm saying this, and why Gom tv made this decision against to him. Only deserved! you know, most western societies (at least) try to don't be biased by personal/emotional issues, towards big things, like punishing someone nearly to end his career. the whole case is more about organizations stick to their rules, treating players and partners (MLG) and how they describe their "honor" (or professionalism) by the way they act. but ye, sounds like you don't care about being biased as fuck. "We don't believe that winning games and getting prizes make you a pro-gamer. We think that pro-gaming as a vocation should be about gamers competing for the victory, for the audience so they would get excited, and in all that, players job is to compete for the victory through that. We gave the seed to Quantic Gaming's protoss pro-gamer NaNiwa, not the Swedish youth Johan Lucchesi who plays the game well." - Mr.Chae your being hallucinated. hes actually defending naniwa like boss. + Show Spoiler +mind_control Korea (South). December 13 2011 23:24. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
nice article ever. I have to leave a comment here. well my opinion about his action on game # 9, when he started to game, and when he tried to put gg. it wasn't so arrogant or disrespectful all staffs/ gom tv people/his fans, or offend feeling bad against nestea at all. He was already 0-3 regardless his mood. his condition. regardless his purpose. Game comes always with luck/conditions. etc. Even though he put all his efforts all his life, there must be variable and not going with him unfortunately. We had thousands of fans for him before he starts that show 18:10. If he would win that games, the result could change all everything. but now he lost, we change back against him. I don't think people change. that's true. But because of that, I don't hate people. I understand every culture. and background. I understand this situation. I mean, I don't think this situation it's not his bad manner or disrespectful us. Did you think ever his schedule? He had run many games since Sep. even moved new countries, met many games. countries to countries. Do you think, he had enough journey whilst he having pause in Sweden? Didn't you read his twitter? Well, as you noticed already people(gamers) considered like a item to company(like col,qxg) they contact all the time. and it must be also stressed, maybe pro gamers don't have free time. and don't have free time enjoy themselves. After he spent 10 days after deamhack, he had to attend direct blizz cup, even changing such dramatic changing company. Didn't you think, how much he was under stress? Let's take a look one more time. Korea is mostly stress country. stress giving. more with manner-important taking. I don't think, there is pressure between naniwa-nestea. It must just certain temporary things in MLG in orlando. I cant believe people saying that issue even still now. Let's take a look in the mirror. Even we are such perfect. that we can be judged. If we see last 200-300 yrs ago genious. people didn't take as good, or genious at all. They had hard life. If I see naniwa, I see same thing. I'm not a fan or naniwa, I'm not fan of nestea either, I see all the time in the middle. I'm just saying what I see. and experienced. just people cant be perfect. Naniwa in the studio action. he just abstain. there wasn't anything disrespectful. Didnt you see his tears/eyes via youtube. when he says to you guys to fan. I could see his real heart. and how much he's thanksful to his team/fans And how much he think so important and want to communicate with you guys.
Don't blame to him. He's also just a person. He's not a beast. He seems just cold but he just doesn't show. but you guys already show and edit lots of his data right ? I'm also understand korean newspaper against to him but. We didn't see so let's not judge. I just think, this happening just can regards as abstrain. like yes, football kick his ball into his goal. He must just tired, after long trip to meet new people(where are all koreans there) . Let's try to understand him as a person. Not just score/ or money or appearance. He's now in new country, new people in his young age.
I expect another succeed in his life again. I tried to mention his schedule to say his background. Hope you guys understand a little bit too. mind_control Korea (South). December 14 2011 05:09. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
have read all those twitters. im couch. and what nestea says..seems like nestea worked really hard dropping his birthday party too. They seem really work together. im/mvp couch all both. naniwa just dropped game bcs he knew, nestea will (and want) this game so much since last happening in orlando. Even though they seemed nice each other before the game start and naniwa showed in the interview with gom/tl. as officially. but naniwa had other thought in mind. He was tired, and he was thinking. (which is meaningless-> if I borrow his letter). Korean team is heavy/and even scarry, if they gather together. All their mention. and articles seems like. they are disappointed. they practiced hard for this. It's not about the gom rules. or naniwa here invited or not. They prefer respect this show is *shown* for fans. IM/MVP seem get together prefer more fans and manner. In the other hands, naniwa and other european players had their own individual thinking and style. So they really don't care other team thinking, even they have been to.
I have been both, so I cant say which team is better. because I experienced both, bad ways. I say just which I seeing as
objective and generally. Korean team can be also very bad. And what they saying is like (No one commanded to "Nestea", hey you practed to show fans this hard, even dropping your birthday party" in the other hands, Naniwa had interview with skype with TL and 2 hours slept before the game started, and flew 17 hours twice flight changed get to korea from sweden after 10 days vacation, get stucked together with new people(who are all koreans) Maybe there must be also haters, communication problems.
I just think korean people think, this way should be just "This way". And europen people think, many "creative way". Any fan/people judge/talk like gossip or disappointed.
Well, I'm also disappointed. This story not expected me either. Kinda of ugly I guess. But life/social like this I guess.
I just so sorry for Nestea. (Nestea seems also nice/cool person too. happy birthday to you and congraturation to be a "father" and be happy your wife). And so sorry for all Gom staffs. <- Who really worked/prepared so hard all this celebrations.
So sorry for all milions fans from all over the worlds. I also expected Naniwa show his power/ability in this bilizz cup.
Well, so sorry for his power just limited after his 4th game(I guess he was tired, and wanted to have relax)
Just so sorry for keeping talking who are all disappointed(Not happy) who keeping saying/blogging even though the time
is finished like 9 hours now.
Cheer up~! mind_control Korea (South). December 14 2011 20:55. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
It's kinda of weird to me, Noone pushed to the Nestea, " Hey drop the birthday Party, U practice for blizzcup there will be 4 matches". Naniwa had vacation and flew long distance even changing twice airplanes and even had interviews with TL/and Gom etc. And he changed team no matter what it was his want or Not. This is really Korean typical issue, when they get together, they can do Anything, pushing someone else Out, Because they just don't like it.
I saw all their twitters last night, it just was common letters, Korean must be very disppointed, but as a person/individual, I also regard that also just their own individual common dialogue, it just was happening. It's not easy to play 5-6 matches/ a day it was even evening. Naniwa just getting adjust himself new country, Do you think, he must hang out here new place? He just came here to new career, I don't think he just wants only money <- this must be only Gom's opinion. He just social awkward like you guys saying. maybe sick. Buy this is only he wants. Only he dumped up his 4th match, Code-S seed is revoked? This is total revenge from nestea and Dong-Hoon, Kang all the his team then. I thought he getting stick together each other well then. I don't know what was the reason of Couch Kang refused him to be there though. from my eyes they seem all every each one kool, but there must be something unwelcome naniwa inside there, and even though there are so many people surrounded there naniwa, there must be something making naniwa so lonely and cold.
I know's naniwas's problem. but you think, this will be the reason that he should be code-S seed revoked alternative making to Sen??
Grew up guys, open eyes, we cant make it because we got hurt, and he just dumped us up, unlike our hopening & expectation. Read that - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
I think, you guys prefer wants money, I don't find any aggresive or threaten from his action with the match with nestea game # 9 yesterday evening.
I think, you guys prefer want Respect & Fame than Naniwa.
I hope this can be assured for naniwa, as long as I know this is all his hope and aim to Korea. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:11. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
ridicolous. why the people don't discuss when the game was there, but saying after game is finished now? It's deferently childish & over crying like same like the scene at Orland at MLG, when nestea's couch complained to the admin when naniwa wanted to have break for 15 min lol. Game is done, nothing against the rule. Korean people seem like, if they are loose/or feel not good "Mama, this guy done me to bad" pleae do harsh for me." Like this. Thie group noone think about the guy's efforts or how was his routin or something at all. How pitty. The Korean group it's huge. I just see,,sigh*. Hope maybe it's can be reassured, like I see this 40 vs 60 % now. Like we have still huge fan of Nani.
I have to point out the Gom brought the their rule here -> - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
If I translate with my own version : When the player tries violent action to the opponent or the watchers with his violent action during the match.
My query : Did he stand up? Did he something put on or throw out or something ? None- Korean twitter even twists that
he was his hands on his chin or something hahaha.
No matter what he's doing, the young judges think this guy is not acceptable to them. how sad. But Nani/Quantic Gaming
also has right to read the rule/rights clearly as litterally if it's right. But as I see this is totally wrong. Because as I see
his action wasn't violent at all ) mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:20. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
And I have to say, Korean people think / and regards a somone's action and twists their behavior is unacceptable and kick out, if they don't like. If their eyes out of this activity. Just Don't like. But Quantic Gaming & Nani Need to know read* this rule if they mentioned this rules out suddenly after the gaming so harsh in public and to all his fans and here. Make us understand At least as litterally. As I see those sentence, I don't understand at all. As I see, he just stated carlmy.
Korean people have to stop, if they don't like kick someone out. this should stopped out. Not pointed out, he's every details behavior. Look at themselves. How korean people have such bad reputations also. Korean people have to stop if someons behavior isn't fit to them or different blame to them. or compare. They'll never grow up. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:26. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I mean, as a progamer, he was awaring all those rules. he wasn't stupid at all. It seems like all conspiracy to me. All ruin to somone's efforts Now. It's now more released nestea's and korean teams's feeling to do this?
Revenge making more revenge. Nothing making comfortable.
Gom presented this after the game is finished & showed up. Spectators also suprised and which was the unexpected us to,
too.
If it's tha arbeitary then, nani and the players should have know the changable rules before the all game set.
And the 10th prize should have delivered to him as well.
There should be nothing grudge each other. if they really understand what "Professionalism" is. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:29. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I really hate Korean people think this way should in -> this way, Otherwise they kick that out. lol -_- mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 04:12. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I still don't get it. I don't know who is Mr. che but just seems like reading all this thread and make his announcement just well packaged. Where is his problem? I could regonized naniwa was total awful tired before the match #9 is started. And knew something gonna happend. And he was attend the game maybe just rude*. But that's all that he can do. As I can say many times. People are not perfect. The game was already 0-3. And it was very late. He doesn't know the other fan. or the system rolling. Like he doesn't admin this fan page at all. He just done what he can do all everything. He doesn't ignore korean people. doesn't look down nestea or Gom staffs. Don' you think, we just think, korean, oh, he's racist. Oh, he looks down at us. Oh he plays with us. Don't you think, it just all own your thoughts? Naniwa never thought like that maybe.
It just seems like that way, because we didn't see that guy here in korea. because we all same, wearing same uniform. we have to have all same ettitude. we grew up like this way. in same education. same background. OMG. how can you this young guy kill in this way.
This is really Not alright.
Don't put your priviate opnion's feeling to this a person. who is just from sweden who starts only new career here. so all this love goes to trash can? what a waste....
wow what?
i didn't read all his posts he has ever made. i saw the last two post like : "he deserved to revoked his code S spot. he's just trash."
sorry that i reacted to this. you know, i don't search for every single post ever made if i want to react to one.
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On December 20 2011 01:31 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:19 chatuka wrote:On December 20 2011 01:14 farnham wrote:
how the hell is the gom mlg deal trilateral
did all korean players and all mlg players, including potential open bracket players?
the contract is a contract to the benefit of a third party at best Tri-lateral players MLG GOM so when did every player of mlg or gsl agree to this? its a stipulatio alteri not a tripartite contract
Tri-lateral of course.
All three parties agree to the terms and conditions of the MLG and LXP..
Players agree to the MLG rules and LXP
MLG agrees to Players conditions and GOMTV's rights
GOMTV agrees to be true to its LXP
Three parties.. very simple
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On December 20 2011 01:49 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:42 vertical101 wrote:On December 19 2011 22:51 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 22:39 mind_control wrote:
I'm going with Gom's announcement. he deserved to revoked his code S spot. he's just trash. On December 19 2011 22:40 mind_control wrote:
If U don't know him, then keep support. but if U know him only inch by inch only a bit closer? then U will know why I'm saying this, and why Gom tv made this decision against to him. Only deserved! you know, most western societies (at least) try to don't be biased by personal/emotional issues, towards big things, like punishing someone nearly to end his career. the whole case is more about organizations stick to their rules, treating players and partners (MLG) and how they describe their "honor" (or professionalism) by the way they act. but ye, sounds like you don't care about being biased as fuck. "We don't believe that winning games and getting prizes make you a pro-gamer. We think that pro-gaming as a vocation should be about gamers competing for the victory, for the audience so they would get excited, and in all that, players job is to compete for the victory through that. We gave the seed to Quantic Gaming's protoss pro-gamer NaNiwa, not the Swedish youth Johan Lucchesi who plays the game well." - Mr.Chae your being hallucinated. hes actually defending naniwa like boss. + Show Spoiler +mind_control Korea (South). December 13 2011 23:24. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
nice article ever. I have to leave a comment here. well my opinion about his action on game # 9, when he started to game, and when he tried to put gg. it wasn't so arrogant or disrespectful all staffs/ gom tv people/his fans, or offend feeling bad against nestea at all. He was already 0-3 regardless his mood. his condition. regardless his purpose. Game comes always with luck/conditions. etc. Even though he put all his efforts all his life, there must be variable and not going with him unfortunately. We had thousands of fans for him before he starts that show 18:10. If he would win that games, the result could change all everything. but now he lost, we change back against him. I don't think people change. that's true. But because of that, I don't hate people. I understand every culture. and background. I understand this situation. I mean, I don't think this situation it's not his bad manner or disrespectful us. Did you think ever his schedule? He had run many games since Sep. even moved new countries, met many games. countries to countries. Do you think, he had enough journey whilst he having pause in Sweden? Didn't you read his twitter? Well, as you noticed already people(gamers) considered like a item to company(like col,qxg) they contact all the time. and it must be also stressed, maybe pro gamers don't have free time. and don't have free time enjoy themselves. After he spent 10 days after deamhack, he had to attend direct blizz cup, even changing such dramatic changing company. Didn't you think, how much he was under stress? Let's take a look one more time. Korea is mostly stress country. stress giving. more with manner-important taking. I don't think, there is pressure between naniwa-nestea. It must just certain temporary things in MLG in orlando. I cant believe people saying that issue even still now. Let's take a look in the mirror. Even we are such perfect. that we can be judged. If we see last 200-300 yrs ago genious. people didn't take as good, or genious at all. They had hard life. If I see naniwa, I see same thing. I'm not a fan or naniwa, I'm not fan of nestea either, I see all the time in the middle. I'm just saying what I see. and experienced. just people cant be perfect. Naniwa in the studio action. he just abstain. there wasn't anything disrespectful. Didnt you see his tears/eyes via youtube. when he says to you guys to fan. I could see his real heart. and how much he's thanksful to his team/fans And how much he think so important and want to communicate with you guys.
Don't blame to him. He's also just a person. He's not a beast. He seems just cold but he just doesn't show. but you guys already show and edit lots of his data right ? I'm also understand korean newspaper against to him but. We didn't see so let's not judge. I just think, this happening just can regards as abstrain. like yes, football kick his ball into his goal. He must just tired, after long trip to meet new people(where are all koreans there) . Let's try to understand him as a person. Not just score/ or money or appearance. He's now in new country, new people in his young age.
I expect another succeed in his life again. I tried to mention his schedule to say his background. Hope you guys understand a little bit too. mind_control Korea (South). December 14 2011 05:09. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
have read all those twitters. im couch. and what nestea says..seems like nestea worked really hard dropping his birthday party too. They seem really work together. im/mvp couch all both. naniwa just dropped game bcs he knew, nestea will (and want) this game so much since last happening in orlando. Even though they seemed nice each other before the game start and naniwa showed in the interview with gom/tl. as officially. but naniwa had other thought in mind. He was tired, and he was thinking. (which is meaningless-> if I borrow his letter). Korean team is heavy/and even scarry, if they gather together. All their mention. and articles seems like. they are disappointed. they practiced hard for this. It's not about the gom rules. or naniwa here invited or not. They prefer respect this show is *shown* for fans. IM/MVP seem get together prefer more fans and manner. In the other hands, naniwa and other european players had their own individual thinking and style. So they really don't care other team thinking, even they have been to.
I have been both, so I cant say which team is better. because I experienced both, bad ways. I say just which I seeing as
objective and generally. Korean team can be also very bad. And what they saying is like (No one commanded to "Nestea", hey you practed to show fans this hard, even dropping your birthday party" in the other hands, Naniwa had interview with skype with TL and 2 hours slept before the game started, and flew 17 hours twice flight changed get to korea from sweden after 10 days vacation, get stucked together with new people(who are all koreans) Maybe there must be also haters, communication problems.
I just think korean people think, this way should be just "This way". And europen people think, many "creative way". Any fan/people judge/talk like gossip or disappointed.
Well, I'm also disappointed. This story not expected me either. Kinda of ugly I guess. But life/social like this I guess.
I just so sorry for Nestea. (Nestea seems also nice/cool person too. happy birthday to you and congraturation to be a "father" and be happy your wife). And so sorry for all Gom staffs. <- Who really worked/prepared so hard all this celebrations.
So sorry for all milions fans from all over the worlds. I also expected Naniwa show his power/ability in this bilizz cup.
Well, so sorry for his power just limited after his 4th game(I guess he was tired, and wanted to have relax)
Just so sorry for keeping talking who are all disappointed(Not happy) who keeping saying/blogging even though the time
is finished like 9 hours now.
Cheer up~! mind_control Korea (South). December 14 2011 20:55. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
It's kinda of weird to me, Noone pushed to the Nestea, " Hey drop the birthday Party, U practice for blizzcup there will be 4 matches". Naniwa had vacation and flew long distance even changing twice airplanes and even had interviews with TL/and Gom etc. And he changed team no matter what it was his want or Not. This is really Korean typical issue, when they get together, they can do Anything, pushing someone else Out, Because they just don't like it.
I saw all their twitters last night, it just was common letters, Korean must be very disppointed, but as a person/individual, I also regard that also just their own individual common dialogue, it just was happening. It's not easy to play 5-6 matches/ a day it was even evening. Naniwa just getting adjust himself new country, Do you think, he must hang out here new place? He just came here to new career, I don't think he just wants only money <- this must be only Gom's opinion. He just social awkward like you guys saying. maybe sick. Buy this is only he wants. Only he dumped up his 4th match, Code-S seed is revoked? This is total revenge from nestea and Dong-Hoon, Kang all the his team then. I thought he getting stick together each other well then. I don't know what was the reason of Couch Kang refused him to be there though. from my eyes they seem all every each one kool, but there must be something unwelcome naniwa inside there, and even though there are so many people surrounded there naniwa, there must be something making naniwa so lonely and cold.
I know's naniwas's problem. but you think, this will be the reason that he should be code-S seed revoked alternative making to Sen??
Grew up guys, open eyes, we cant make it because we got hurt, and he just dumped us up, unlike our hopening & expectation. Read that - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
I think, you guys prefer wants money, I don't find any aggresive or threaten from his action with the match with nestea game # 9 yesterday evening.
I think, you guys prefer want Respect & Fame than Naniwa.
I hope this can be assured for naniwa, as long as I know this is all his hope and aim to Korea. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:11. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
ridicolous. why the people don't discuss when the game was there, but saying after game is finished now? It's deferently childish & over crying like same like the scene at Orland at MLG, when nestea's couch complained to the admin when naniwa wanted to have break for 15 min lol. Game is done, nothing against the rule. Korean people seem like, if they are loose/or feel not good "Mama, this guy done me to bad" pleae do harsh for me." Like this. Thie group noone think about the guy's efforts or how was his routin or something at all. How pitty. The Korean group it's huge. I just see,,sigh*. Hope maybe it's can be reassured, like I see this 40 vs 60 % now. Like we have still huge fan of Nani.
I have to point out the Gom brought the their rule here -> - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
If I translate with my own version : When the player tries violent action to the opponent or the watchers with his violent action during the match.
My query : Did he stand up? Did he something put on or throw out or something ? None- Korean twitter even twists that
he was his hands on his chin or something hahaha.
No matter what he's doing, the young judges think this guy is not acceptable to them. how sad. But Nani/Quantic Gaming
also has right to read the rule/rights clearly as litterally if it's right. But as I see this is totally wrong. Because as I see
his action wasn't violent at all ) mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:20. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
And I have to say, Korean people think / and regards a somone's action and twists their behavior is unacceptable and kick out, if they don't like. If their eyes out of this activity. Just Don't like. But Quantic Gaming & Nani Need to know read* this rule if they mentioned this rules out suddenly after the gaming so harsh in public and to all his fans and here. Make us understand At least as litterally. As I see those sentence, I don't understand at all. As I see, he just stated carlmy.
Korean people have to stop, if they don't like kick someone out. this should stopped out. Not pointed out, he's every details behavior. Look at themselves. How korean people have such bad reputations also. Korean people have to stop if someons behavior isn't fit to them or different blame to them. or compare. They'll never grow up. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:26. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I mean, as a progamer, he was awaring all those rules. he wasn't stupid at all. It seems like all conspiracy to me. All ruin to somone's efforts Now. It's now more released nestea's and korean teams's feeling to do this?
Revenge making more revenge. Nothing making comfortable.
Gom presented this after the game is finished & showed up. Spectators also suprised and which was the unexpected us to,
too.
If it's tha arbeitary then, nani and the players should have know the changable rules before the all game set.
And the 10th prize should have delivered to him as well.
There should be nothing grudge each other. if they really understand what "Professionalism" is. mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 01:29. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I really hate Korean people think this way should in -> this way, Otherwise they kick that out. lol -_- mind_control Korea (South). December 15 2011 04:12. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
I still don't get it. I don't know who is Mr. che but just seems like reading all this thread and make his announcement just well packaged. Where is his problem? I could regonized naniwa was total awful tired before the match #9 is started. And knew something gonna happend. And he was attend the game maybe just rude*. But that's all that he can do. As I can say many times. People are not perfect. The game was already 0-3. And it was very late. He doesn't know the other fan. or the system rolling. Like he doesn't admin this fan page at all. He just done what he can do all everything. He doesn't ignore korean people. doesn't look down nestea or Gom staffs. Don' you think, we just think, korean, oh, he's racist. Oh, he looks down at us. Oh he plays with us. Don't you think, it just all own your thoughts? Naniwa never thought like that maybe.
It just seems like that way, because we didn't see that guy here in korea. because we all same, wearing same uniform. we have to have all same ettitude. we grew up like this way. in same education. same background. OMG. how can you this young guy kill in this way.
This is really Not alright.
Don't put your priviate opnion's feeling to this a person. who is just from sweden who starts only new career here. so all this love goes to trash can? what a waste.... wow what? i didn't read all his posts he has ever made. i saw the last two post like : "he deserved to revoked his code S spot. he's just trash."sorry that i reacted to this. you know, i don't search for every single post ever made if i want to react to one.
"wow what?" thats my reaction too to his newest comment because i saw some off his post lately then double check if its the same guy lol.
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On December 19 2011 22:58 eot wrote:
yeah lets listen to the korean netizens
tell me again why you need a SSN to register for anything in kr and why celebrity suicide rates are so high?
I doubt it's because people online behave in a reasonable way
okay, let me explain this again. I'm not gom's fan. I'm not naniwa's fan. but just things make it clear was I see it.
I don't know about game zone so much, so actually I thought gom's decision was so harsh they put their private emotion
to bring naniwas BM to revote his Code-S the next tournament.
But let's see. as nani won 4 other matches as series in Orland, that makes he has big possiblity to get Code-S spot
here in Korea next time. But noone, and never it was officially came out.
http://cafe.naver.com/sc2woz.cafe?iframe_url=/ArticleRead.nhn?articleid=1048&
http://cafe.naver.com/star2mania.cafe?iframe_url=/ArticleRead.nhn?articleid=260841&
http://cafe.naver.com/star2mania.cafe?iframe_url=/ArticleRead.nhn?articleid=260947&
http://vaders.blog.me/80148182005
http://blog.naver.com/zxcs1820?Redirect=Log&logNo=40146976254
http://mlbpark.donga.com/mbs/articleV.php?mbsC=bullpen&mbsIdx=425959
http://cafe.naver.com/kaiknight.cafe?iframe_url=/ArticleRead.nhn?articleid=318190&
these are only couple of blogs, when he vs netea had the match on 13th. Dec on GSL. lots of sc users wrote on their
community sites. It mostly "trash naniwa, crazy. insane..bla bla like this.
And among this link, a reporter described very genuin and as optimistic view, why naniwa should get blame more than gom very delicated reason putting the reasons.
He must have tons of fans still, since his sc career and his dallas winning, but as he shown several bm until now,
and some people say he's entertainer or social awarkerd or something. which he shows here, and later talking with his
team and get advice. 'Okay, I didn't meen it, bla bla." it just everything like covered that situation, after he done everything
he wanted that way all by his wishes.
Ofc we pay, and he has lots of watchers, But no matter what how he spent days here in korea, that's not acceptable.
He just seems like, all take advantages all situation or benefits to him. Even though he seems very innocent or only
focus on his job though. I have read among very recent news here, "he spoke with his collegues @ GSL, talk badly about
korean reporters, even if they are very closer by. I thought about this, if can be execused, someone is so young, and
not educated, and if someone has lots of stories when he was young? -Everybody has stories, but noone can say "Sorry,
I didn't know what, I'll never again like this all every situatuin - this is my opinion. This is not only in Korea. This is why
Korea should not blamed on this case. Every culture/country has own their right/benefit, which we should follow/and fit.
But this redeemed really something ignoring us. I doubt now his career also, such he changed so many teams, and seems
everything makes to fit, and excuse it later. I'm also not blame him, but at least every person has minimum based manner.
am I right ?
I also read all twitters that nestea/ and gom people's related manager which is the happend around 13th. Dec. if I translate
all those data, You'll be really suprised. Because those writing really decribed very well about Naniwa by own words.
Even very famous starcraft progamers as well. Maybe they just not reveal. Do you want to me to translate it?
Well, no yet, like I seeing all trash this(I'm not saying korean netizen all fake/wrong - like you guys told me, do I believe
all those netizen threads) but I have also time, so I'm not going with this). The action which maybe you don't know behind
the stage, & which doesn't show up from the stream, maybe U know, but I mean, other people saying(like manager should
be the true)-it's not just like korean's conservative mood. I guess. We're not overacting.
If someone's saying, there must be the reasons, like I uploaded some blogs. which sc users wrote when the matches
happend, and what they feel seeing this.
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EPT
