On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
no, lot's of people here agree with me.. it people like you and other non thinking people that can't seem to read between the lines and get to the proper conclusion that is muddying the issue.. This issue is so simple, yet you make it more complicated than it really is..
we are not talking about a billion dollar patent issue withing the US jurisdiction involving behemoths like IBM or Sony.
These are people within organisations, teams etc who clearly dont give a fuck about the players or the sport. All they care about is business and the players are the "workers". I mean what? Hold on a second. The players make the games, they are the games! People like the guy in the link, saying that players should shut the fuck up and do what they are told, should be pushed out from the scene. They are the ones in it for the money, they are the ones crushing the competitive spirit, they are the ones trying to make it into a entertainment circus.
Whatever new or interesting point you people have brought up the in the last 20 pages, has been brought up 20 pages before that. This thread is a cycle of stupidity.
If Naniwa is good enough for Code S, he will make Code A. And if he isn't, then good riddance. I only want to see foreigners who can reach ro8 consistently, not some borderline Code S player who was gift-wrapped a spot.
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
MLG's admins stated directly to him, that he recieved said seed. MLG official stated that he recieved said seed.
Naniwa and his sponsors planned on that statements. Thats enough to take them on court. No need for a contract.
This is going to be posted on our site a little later today but I thought I'd start here since a lot of the speculation is coming from r/starcraft
Statement below-
The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season.
.
-sd
The original Agreement, that a trilateral faction agreed upon. three groups. Players, MLG and GOM TV agreed upon it. and changes therefore afterwards must be ammended after the fact and agreed upon all parties... Any future contracts for GSL tournaments can be written and then communicated to both MLG and the players. if the Players don't like the new terms of GSL format, it would be under the players will to not participate in it.
LXP is definitely a contract.. and the contract stated that the top 3 from each MLG pro circuit INCLUDING PROVIDENCE, who did not have CODE S status would be GRANTED CODE S status..
Seriously, people what part of the agreement, don't you people understand?
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
MLG's admins stated directly to him, that he recieved said seed. MLG official stated that he recieved said seed.
Naniwa and his sponsors planned on that statements. Thats enough to take them on court. No need for a contract.
Yes that's called a Verbal contract. Any voice recorder or video recorder would be sufficient proof in the court of LAW.
On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote: really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple. Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot
Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever.
That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG.
My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence?
I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa..
Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either.
First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract.
So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete.
Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well.
Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it.
it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players.
We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot..
You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true.
To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG.
There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem.
A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again.
Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement.
For example.
1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban..
Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS.
And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
You are absolutly 100% wrong.
Sorry there is nothing else i can say in regards to your post. I have read it and the reply to my previous post one page earlier twice now and i literally cannot believe what you are writing.
You throw around a number of absolutes which make absolutly no sense and are incorrect.
I'll make a list for your convenience since it seems you lack ANY understanding of legal issues:
1) A contract is not a press release. The announcement on the MLG and Gom homepages about the LXP were press releases. In other words they are paraphrases of contracts to spare us the horror of legalese. In addition to that they by definition do not include any private clauses which may or may not be part of the contract (we don't know). Literally the only people who have seen the contract itself are MLG and Gom representatives (most likely some lawyers as well).
2) A contract is a contract so far so good. Contracts CAN and in fact ARE changed after being signed almost daily. There are protections and agreements against changes which might negatively influence one party or the other but that is something MLG and Gom need to discuss between themselves. Remember the MLG statement? "but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." That explicitly states that Gom CAN adjust what kind of placement Naniwa earned (which is exactly what the Gom announcement SAYS THEY DID).
3) Naniwa has NO CONTRACT WITH GOM. At best he is a 3rd party to the LXP contract (a benefactor in legal speaking). Any actions of his in regards to breaking a possible contract are absolutly irrelevant to legal discussions. The only question is if Gom has fullfilled their obligations to MLG!! not to Naniwa. The only party NANIWA could sue would be MLG if he feels his price for his providence achievement was not fullfilled properly. MLG would then need to sue Gom (which they cannot according to their statement, see above).
Under no legal circumstances whatsoever did Naniwa have a contract for a GSL code S spot with Gom. Contractual Law simply doesn't work that way.
4) Your list of rules is nice, even if it is completly irrelevant to the questions our posts are discussing. You did not include all rules which is bad enough, but more importantly you are arguing something which has absolutly nothing to do with Gom's statement.
I'll clarify their statement with a simply list since you seem to be unable to read:
a) Naniwa got a spot in the Blizzard Cup from his 2nd place ranking in Providence. b) Gom considers the Blizzard Cup to be the equivalent of a Code S place. c) According to his behaviour Gom does not feel Naniwa deserves an additional invite to January Code S.
Is that in any way unclear?
Now you can argue either about b or c. Do not mix up the two or your posts simply loose strength.
1) A contract is not a press release. The announcement on the MLG and Gom homepages about the LXP were press releases. In other words they are paraphrases of contracts to spare us the horror of legalese. In addition to that they by definition do not include any private clauses which may or may not be part of the contract (we don't know). Literally the only people who have seen the contract itself are MLG and Gom representatives (most likely some lawyers as well).
Please,spare me. IF the code S spot wasn't guaranteed in the contract, why WOULD MLG promise to give it highest ranked non code S player in the first place.. Seriously you make it so freaking shrouded with mystery.. THere is no mystery. MLG lied.. GOM TV broke their promises... Naniwa has a right to sue
) A contract is a contract so far so good. Contracts CAN and in fact ARE changed after being signed almost daily. There are protections and agreements against changes which might negatively influence one party or the other but that is something MLG and Gom need to discuss between themselves. Remember the MLG statement? "but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." That explicitly states that Gom CAN adjust what kind of placement Naniwa earned (which is exactly what the Gom announcement SAYS THEY DID).
Yes, they are called addendums and Clauses. MLG also explicitly said that the CODE S spot will be given to the highest ranked NON code S player at MLG Providence. If there were SUCH abilities to change the terms of the agreement. MLG would would have communicated these exceptions and clauses to such agreements and promises. GEEZE
Naniwa has NO CONTRACT WITH GOM. At best he is a 3rd party to the LXP contract (a benefactor in legal speaking). Any actions of his in regards to breaking a possible contract are absolutly irrelevant to legal discussions. The only question is if Gom has fullfilled their obligations to MLG!! not to Naniwa. The only party NANIWA could sue would be MLG if he feels his price for his providence achievement was not fullfilled properly. MLG would then need to sue Gom (which they cannot according to their statement, see above).
No, EVERY player at MLG had an agreement. that the highest ranked player in the Providence tournament would be given a Code S spot by GOM TV. Naniwa has to go after MLG first for MLG breaking the terms and conditions of the contract. And MLG would need to go after GOM GSL for reneging on GOM.TV's agreement with MLG to alot a code S spot at the MLG tournament.
GOM has not fulfilled their promise to MLG. And MLG did not fulfill the promise made to the participating players. This potential reward of earning a code S spot could be 50,000 dollars. It really is a clusterfuck what GOM.TV did. And Naniwa has absolutely a right to go after MLG for lying to him about the promise of a Code S spot
You still haven't consulted a dictionary about the idiocy you are spouting right? And you are still happily ignoring the complete basics of contractual law while asking Naniwa to sue someone.
Frankly you are amusing at best.
Your first paragraph is very funny. "Please spare me" i can almost imagine you sitting somewhere with your head in the sand. Literally NOTHING in a press release is ever that simple in a real life contract. Everybody knows that if they ever had anything to do with one.
I must respectfully disagree with anything you have said. Your entire argument is built on an assumption i simply cannot agree with, and frankly no one who has the slightest clue about law or PR work will agree with. That being that the agreement between MLG and Gom was so simple they could fit it on 2 pages of paper.
In regards to this sentence:
No, EVERY player at MLG had an agreement. that the highest ranked player in the Providence tournament would be given a Code S spot by GOM TV. Naniwa has to go after MLG first for MLG breaking the terms and conditions of the contract. And MLG would need to go after GOM GSL for reneging on GOM.TV's agreement with MLG to alot a code S spot at the MLG tournament.
that is the first halfway intelligent sentence in your post. Of course you are paraphrasing what i said without being clear unlike my original sentence. Naniwa and every other player had a contract with MLG. MLG has a contract with Gom. No player has a contract with Gom.
So far so good. Now we could argue if Gom has fullfilled their obligation to MLG, Mlg thinks they did (i have quoted it three times this page that should be enough). Next we can argue if Naniwa feels MLG has fullfilled their obligation to him, for this point we do not have a definite answer, but judging from his silence and his interview in Live on three he feels that the Blizzard Cup was a worthy tournament to get a spot in. If he doesn't feel that he could try legal action against MLG, i wouldn't give him much of a chance, but he could try it. If he won then MLG would need to compensate him (out of interest what exactly are the supposed damages he took?) but they would have no standing to pursue legal action see above for details.
Finally for the last time, either produce the mythical contract you are referring to, or please shut up and get a clue.
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
no, lot's of people here agree with me.. it people like you and other non thinking people that can't seem to read between the lines and get to the proper conclusion that is muddying the issue.. This issue is so simple, yet you make it more complicated than it really is..
we are not talking about a billion dollar patent issue withing the US jurisdiction involving behemoths like IBM or Sony.
I don't care who agrees with you. A lot of people disagree, too. The issue is directly related to what the contract states. If the contract states that GOM can change anything they want at any time then they can do that. If the agreement players sign before they enter MLG explains how the prizes are awarded then nothing can happen to MLG.
I assume, as you're doing throughout your posts, that the contracts do include these clauses. With that being said, if someone really wanted to sue MLG, I suppose they could say they falsely advertised, but that's about it.
These are people within organisations, teams etc who clearly dont give a fuck about the players or the sport. All they care about is business and the players are the "workers". I mean what? Hold on a second. The players make the games, they are the games! People like the guy in the link, saying that players should shut the fuck up and do what they are told, should be pushed out from the scene. They are the ones in it for the money, they are the ones crushing the competitive spirit, they are the ones trying to make it into a entertainment circus.
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
MLG's admins stated directly to him, that he recieved said seed. MLG official stated that he recieved said seed.
Naniwa and his sponsors planned on that statements. Thats enough to take them on court. No need for a contract.
Yes that's called a Verbal contract. Any voice recorder or video recorder would be sufficient proof in the court of LAW.
Erm no that is not a verbal contract. That is a promise or an offer depending on the exact wording. You are still ignoring the point of equivalent substitution btw.
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
MLG's admins stated directly to him, that he recieved said seed. MLG official stated that he recieved said seed.
Naniwa and his sponsors planned on that statements. Thats enough to take them on court. No need for a contract.
Yea and then he attacks MLG, not GOM. Again, MLG made it clear that GOM is within their rights so they have not broken any rules here.
On December 20 2011 00:42 chatuka wrote: This is going to be posted on our site a little later today but I thought I'd start here since a lot of the speculation is coming from r/starcraft
The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season.
.
-sd
The original Agreement, that a trilateral faction agreed upon. three groups. Players, MLG and GOM TV agreed upon it. and changes therefore afterwards must be ammended after the fact and agreed upon all parties... Any future contracts for GSL tournaments can be written and then communicated to both MLG and the players. if the Players don't like the new terms of GSL format, it would be under the players will to not participate in it.
LXP is definitely a contract.. and the contract stated that the top 3 from each MLG pro circuit INCLUDING PROVIDENCE, who did not have CODE S status would be GRANTED CODE S status..
Seriously, people what part of the agreement, don't you people understand?
Seriously person you are quoting an agreement with TWO PARTIES and then immediatly start your post with the word TRILATERAL. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU????????
you still do not understand GomTVs point. They consider the Blizzard Cup to be an equivalent exchange to the price owed, AND THE FRIGGIN CONTRACT GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO DO SO according to mlg.
End of discussion nothing more to say. Until you can show us a contract which says differently nothing else needs to be said.
And if you quote a friggin press release once more and refer to it as a contract i will start screaming.
er mr.lawyer(?) you conveniently left out the part where sundance specifically says that it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement. They adjusted placement to two blizzard cup spots... all is well. Btw its not like gom changed this stuff out of no where to smite naniwa, after the gsl reformat, korean weekly did lose their code a spot as well, & naniwa DID get invited to blizzardcup, they weren't clear of everything but signs of changes of gsl's reformation were already in place before naniwa's incident. Therefore stop calling them liars and perhaps suggest they become more clear with foreign tournament organizers to avoid confusion.
You still haven't consulted a dictionary about the idiocy you are spouting right? And you are still happily ignoring the complete basics of contractual law while asking Naniwa to sue someone.
really, if you can pontificate endlessly about what a contract is please do it.. honestly you really need a gut check. because your ego is getting out of hand.
Frankly you are amusing at best.
actually you're actually more amusing than I am.. really I am amazed at your level of sheer stupidity regarding simple Law.
Your first paragraph is very funny. "Please spare me" i can almost imagine you sitting somewhere with your head in the sand. Literally NOTHING in a press release is ever that simple in a real life contract. Everybody knows that if they ever had anything to do with one.
sure whatever sweety pie.. whatever makes you feeel better. Because useless ad hominem attacks are quite amusing to read.
I must respectfully disagree with anything you have said. Your entire argument is built on an assumption i simply cannot agree with, and frankly no one who has the slightest clue about law or PR work will agree with. That being that the agreement between MLG and Gom was so simple they could fit it on 2 pages of paper.
At least you admit how much of a simpleton you truly are. Because really, it's not hard to read phone contracts, insurance contracts, governmental contracts. really. As long as you can understand and read, the difficultly in understanding contractual obligations is quite efforless. Unless you are from Tulea. LoL
that is the first halfway intelligent sentence in your post. Of course you are paraphrasing what i said without being clear unlike my original sentence. Naniwa and every other player had a contract with MLG. MLG has a contract with Gom. No player has a contract with Gom.
Actually someone else said this.. And this what I think as well. It is you who thinks that going after MLG is a pointless and baseless attempt. And thankyou for you administrating ad hominem mud sling fests. You are proving to be quite the argumentative P###. I am not paraphrasing anything you're saying. because anything you are saying isn't that coherent, let alone intelligent or sensical.
So far so good. Now we could argue if Gom has fullfilled their obligation to MLG, Mlg thinks they did (i have quoted it three times this page that should be enough). Next we can argue if Naniwa feels MLG has fullfilled their obligation to him, for this point we do not have a definite answer, but judging from his silence and his interview in Live on three he feels that the Blizzard Cup was a worthy tournament to get a spot in. If he doesn't feel that he could try legal action against MLG, i wouldn't give him much of a chance, but he could try it. If he won then MLG would need to compensate him (out of interest what exactly are the supposed damages he took?) but they would have no standing to pursue legal action see above for details.
Finally for the last time, either produce the mythical contract you are referring to, or please shut up and get a clue.
NO MLG did NOT fulfill their obligation to him, you simpleton. What part of reading don't you understand. Do you not understand English? I mean is that language too difficult for you to comprehend? really, i am questioning your sanity. since you seem to willfully ignore evidence right in front of your that said that MLG promised a code S spot to Naniwa and regiged on it because GOM broke the LXT agreement which is a contract. Seriously if you are going to argue what acontract is , you have bigger problems than I had imagined.
I don't care what you think if naniwa has a chance or not.. It's what the truth of the legal feasibility is. I really don't care either I just state the obvious that Naniwa has a legal shot at taking MLG or Gom TV to court for reneging on their promises to give Naniwa a code S spot. Honestly, how far in grade school did you get manage to earn?
As for producing this mythical contract, it's called the LXT.. that is the contract itself. On top of it, that German guy said that MLG verbally gave a contract to Naniwa. which in the court of law is probably evidence of a legal agreement, if recorded on video or tape. As fro Verbal agreements I don't know how concrete a verbal agreement stands in court. that I can research more often...
as for the rest of your babble.. please just give up,, you are disappointing me with your inane mumbling. i am done with you.. seriously we will never agre with each other. I honestly don't care what your opinion on the matter of this subject as well
Blindly trusting GOM and MLG is a bit naive imo. One has to consider the inner politics when reading MLG's statement. MLG would obviously look really bad if GOM just stepped all over MLG and MLG would be expected to act in some degree and way. If MLG and GOM agree to stick to the same story then they both look a little bad, thus none looks really bad. The idea being that nobody takes a huge hit, nobdy knowing whos fault it is, and the story will die pretty fast. Im speculating ofc, but just wanted to give another perspective to it and say that a short statement from a company under pressure may not always be 100% true.
You still haven't consulted a dictionary about the idiocy you are spouting right? And you are still happily ignoring the complete basics of contractual law while asking Naniwa to sue someone.
really, if you can pontificate endlessly about what a contract is please do it.. honestly you really need a gut check. because your ego is getting out of hand.
Your first paragraph is very funny. "Please spare me" i can almost imagine you sitting somewhere with your head in the sand. Literally NOTHING in a press release is ever that simple in a real life contract. Everybody knows that if they ever had anything to do with one.
sure whatever sweety pie.. whatever makes you feeel better. Because useless ad hominem attacks are quite amusing to read.
I must respectfully disagree with anything you have said. Your entire argument is built on an assumption i simply cannot agree with, and frankly no one who has the slightest clue about law or PR work will agree with. That being that the agreement between MLG and Gom was so simple they could fit it on 2 pages of paper.
At least you admit how much of a simpleton you truly are. Because really, it's not hard to read phone contracts, insurance contracts, governmental contracts. really. As long as you can understand and read, the difficultly in understanding contractual obligations is quite efforless. Unless you are from Tulea. LoL
that is the first halfway intelligent sentence in your post. Of course you are paraphrasing what i said without being clear unlike my original sentence. Naniwa and every other player had a contract with MLG. MLG has a contract with Gom. No player has a contract with Gom.
Actually someone else said this.. And this what I think as well. It is you who thinks that going after MLG is a pointless and baseless attempt. And thankyou for you administrating ad hominem mud sling fests. You are proving to be quite the argumentative P###. I am not paraphrasing anything you're saying. because anything you are saying isn't that coherent, let alone intelligent or sensical.
So far so good. Now we could argue if Gom has fullfilled their obligation to MLG, Mlg thinks they did (i have quoted it three times this page that should be enough). Next we can argue if Naniwa feels MLG has fullfilled their obligation to him, for this point we do not have a definite answer, but judging from his silence and his interview in Live on three he feels that the Blizzard Cup was a worthy tournament to get a spot in. If he doesn't feel that he could try legal action against MLG, i wouldn't give him much of a chance, but he could try it. If he won then MLG would need to compensate him (out of interest what exactly are the supposed damages he took?) but they would have no standing to pursue legal action see above for details.
Finally for the last time, either produce the mythical contract you are referring to, or please shut up and get a clue.
NO MLG did NOT fulfill their obligation to him, you simpleton. What part of reading don't you understand. Do you not understand English? I mean is that language too difficult for you to comprehend? really, i am questioning your sanity. since you seem to willfully ignore evidence right in front of your that said that MLG promised a code S spot to Naniwa and regiged on it because GOM broke the LXT agreement which is a contract. Seriously if you are going to argue what acontract is , you have bigger problems than I had imagined.
I don't care what you think if naniwa has a chance or not.. It's what the truth of the legal feasibility is. I really don't care either I just state the obvious that Naniwa has a legal shot at taking MLG or Gom TV to court for reneging on their promises to give Naniwa a code S spot. Honestly, how far in grade school did you get manage to earn?
As for producing this mythical contract, it's called the LXT.. that is the contract itself. On top of it, that German guy said that MLG verbally gave a contract to Naniwa. which in the court of law is probably evidence of a legal agreement, if recorded on video or tape. As fro Verbal agreements I don't know how concrete a verbal agreement stands in court. that I can research more often...
as for the rest of your babble.. please just give up,, you are disappointing me with your inane mumbling. i am done with you.. seriously we will never agre with each other. I honestly don't care what your opinion on the matter of this subject as well
This is obviously getting quite heated. Does anybody have access to the actual contract or is this entire discussion really just based of press releases from MLG and GOM?
On December 20 2011 00:42 chatuka wrote: This is going to be posted on our site a little later today but I thought I'd start here since a lot of the speculation is coming from r/starcraft
Statement below-
The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season.
.
-sd
The original Agreement, that a trilateral faction agreed upon. three groups. Players, MLG and GOM TV agreed upon it. and changes therefore afterwards must be ammended after the fact and agreed upon all parties... Any future contracts for GSL tournaments can be written and then communicated to both MLG and the players. if the Players don't like the new terms of GSL format, it would be under the players will to not participate in it.
LXP is definitely a contract.. and the contract stated that the top 3 from each MLG pro circuit INCLUDING PROVIDENCE, who did not have CODE S status would be GRANTED CODE S status..
Seriously, people what part of the agreement, don't you people understand?
Seriously person you are quoting an agreement with TWO PARTIES and then immediatly start your post with the word TRILATERAL. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU????????
you still do not understand GomTVs point. They consider the Blizzard Cup to be an exchange to the price owed, AND THE FRIGGIN CONTRACT GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO DO SO according to mlg.
ye but what GOM considers to be a equivalent price doesn't matter.
MLG stated Naniwa has earned a Code S seed. So MLG lied or they were miserably treated by Gom. Either way Naniwa and his supporters counted on this and set his future plannings. Naniwa stated multiple time that he wasn't aware that he didn't GET a seed, but just a invitation, that could be rewoked any time by just changing minds in Goms executives.
Also do you really think a spot in this Blizzard cup, which groupstage was BO1 is really worth a Code S seed? lol
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote: MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm. The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[ E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
GOMTV stole the right of Naniwa's chance to earn 40,000 dollars. that is a big deal. and GomTV should be punished for their wonton behavior. I understand Naniwa didn't behave like an angel that day against Nestea. All you could have done GOM was to give him a warning or reprimand of his bad behavior. But to break contracts that and to disallow a player to win 40,000 dollars is definitely a breach in contract and should be excercised in the court of law.
you are aware that you are commiting slander here which is a crime? No matter how you try to distort the entire situation Gomtv didn't "steal" anything.
Leaving aside the debate wether Naniwa would have won anything you are throwing around a lot of empty words without any facts. I have written two full posts detailing how absolutly wrong you are, until you answer those (preferrebly while using your braincells and a dictionary so that you actually know what the terms mean that you are throwing around) i'll ignore any other baseless accusation against Gom which comes from you.
Was the granting of the Code S spot contracted? If so, Naniwa can pursue it.
Nobody here knows since we don't have the dam thing. We know exactly ZERO what is written in the contract.
Except for chatuka. Apparently, he knows exactly what's in the contract without ever seeing it.
no, lot's of people here agree with me.. it people like you and other non thinking people that can't seem to read between the lines and get to the proper conclusion that is muddying the issue.. This issue is so simple, yet you make it more complicated than it really is..
we are not talking about a billion dollar patent issue withing the US jurisdiction involving behemoths like IBM or Sony.
I don't care who agrees with you. A lot of people disagree, too. The issue is directly related to what the contract states. If the contract states that GOM can change anything they want at any time then they can do that. If the agreement players sign before they enter MLG explains how the prizes are awarded then nothing can happen to MLG.
I assume, as you're doing throughout your posts, that the contracts do include these clauses. With that being said, if someone really wanted to sue MLG, I suppose they could say they falsely advertised, but that's about it.
I don't care if you don't agree with me. It is you that said that no one agreeed with me. i disproved that stupid notion you brought up and made you look foolish for saying it.
I already re-iterated that if GOM TV had the right to change the terms of the conditions of contract of the LXT.
MLG would not have been able to give a concrete promise to ALL the players of MLG Providence that a Code S seed would be given out to the highest ranked non code S player. If that was true, tht MLG made no promises regarding the Code S seeding, i don't think players or Naniwa would be upset about what happened NOW. Because everybody at that time knew FULL well what the terms were and they agreed to it. But because MLG and GOM reniged on this agreement of the LXT.. that is a clear violation of the contractual agreement made to the players of MLG Providence. in which players have a right in court for damages to the players time, money, and gaming ability.. whatever..
Really, this is a non issue. But if you people continue to want to argue this futile subject go ahead.. It's just that I will never agree or come to your side of your views. Good day. hopefully everything else works out though, in the rest of your life.
On December 20 2011 00:42 chatuka wrote: This is going to be posted on our site a little later today but I thought I'd start here since a lot of the speculation is coming from r/starcraft
Statement below-
The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season.
.
-sd
The original Agreement, that a trilateral faction agreed upon. three groups. Players, MLG and GOM TV agreed upon it. and changes therefore afterwards must be ammended after the fact and agreed upon all parties... Any future contracts for GSL tournaments can be written and then communicated to both MLG and the players. if the Players don't like the new terms of GSL format, it would be under the players will to not participate in it.
LXP is definitely a contract.. and the contract stated that the top 3 from each MLG pro circuit INCLUDING PROVIDENCE, who did not have CODE S status would be GRANTED CODE S status..
Seriously, people what part of the agreement, don't you people understand?
Seriously person you are quoting an agreement with TWO PARTIES and then immediatly start your post with the word TRILATERAL. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU????????
you still do not understand GomTVs point. They consider the Blizzard Cup to be an exchange to the price owed, AND THE FRIGGIN CONTRACT GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO DO SO according to mlg.
ye but what GOM considers to be a equivalent price doesn't matter.
MLG stated Naniwa has earned a Code S seed. So MLG lied or they were miserably treated by Gom. Either way Naniwa and his supporters counted on this and set his future plannings. Naniwa stated multiple time that he wasn't aware that he didn't GET a seed, but just a invitation, that could be rewoked any time by just changing minds in Goms executives.
Also do you really think a spot in this Blizzard cup, which groupstage was BO1 is really worth a Code S seed? lol
EPT
