|
On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG.
There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem.
A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again.
Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement.
For example.
1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit
2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule
3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban..
Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS.
And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG.
but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
|
On December 19 2011 23:39 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:37 Ata wrote:
Sports team (at least football) put their team B on the field alot when the game doesnt matter.... B team is something different tough. What Naniwa did was not sending the B team but just sit with his butt on the field.
I think they put their B team because they want those players to get experience (good for the team, bad for audience). When Barcelona wins the la liga with 1-2 games left in the tourny, should they be punished for not providing the audience with the best game possible? I mean, the fans dont even care at that point.
I understand that the goal of this tournament to get viewers and make money. So if all you care about is money, either pay players $/game or $/game won or make the tournament structure in a way that they care to play well every single game and dont abuse your power and punish the player.
Whats next? best out of 9 series and the players have to play all 9 games even if its 5-0?
|
On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations.
according to § 539 et seq (if the gsl mlg deal can be qualified as a so called echter vertrag zugunsten eines dritten)of the korean civil code naniwa could directly sue gom
however as i stated multiple times there are quasi contractual obligations in the relationship naniwa - gsl (so called vollzugsverhältnis) which naniwa evidently has broken. therefore gsl is entitled to refuse performance.
|
On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here.
You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do... and I'm the one "talking BS?" Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway. Even if he did, it's completely hypothetical, because he doesn't seem to care. He could've fought through code A like most people have to, but he's not.
MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing. Besides, GOM is still seeding top MLG performers with their new system, Naniwa just got the boot because he was being immature. GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny.
|
On December 19 2011 23:50 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. according to § 539 et seq (if the gsl mlg deal can be qualified as a so called echter vertrag zugunsten eines dritten)of the korean civil code naniwa could directly sue gom however as i stated multiple times there are quasi contractual obligations in the relationship naniwa - gsl (so called vollzugsverhältnis) which naniwa evidently has broken. therefore gsl is entitled to refuse performance.
The quasi contractual obligations of Naniwa was to NOT break the TOS or rules of the contract. There was no rule in the Blizzard Cup period that Naniwa Broke any rule. He was never late, he never talked while playing.. He never cursed.. He never bet.. What he did was probe Rush. And in that Contract GOM.TV had no such clause saying that probe rushing is a clear violation of contract for Blizzard Cup 2011.. There Naniwa Broke no Rule... GOm.TV has even admitted that Naniwa broke no rule themselves.
What Gom TV was use their unjustified unilateral indiscretion, by making a judgement of a player that they thought was disrespecting a tournament. WHile, not taking into consideration of the contractual agreements GOM made to MLG Providence and the Players of MLG providence.
|
United States5162 Posts
On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
You don't know what's in the language of the contract. Without that knowledge you don't know what you're talking about. The fact that you say the contract is explicit and clear is laughable.
Again, without seeing the contract, everything you say is coming out of your ass.
|
On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
what contract, you don't know any details about the contracts they have signed. Its all assumptions and taking words from here
Unprofessional conduct is a carried over rule from broodwar, it is assumed. You don't need a written one to know that you can't act unprofessionally and pay disrespect to the players, fans, and organizers. Not to say what naniwa done isn't just match fixing
|
On December 19 2011 23:56 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:50 farnham wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. according to § 539 et seq (if the gsl mlg deal can be qualified as a so called echter vertrag zugunsten eines dritten)of the korean civil code naniwa could directly sue gom however as i stated multiple times there are quasi contractual obligations in the relationship naniwa - gsl (so called vollzugsverhältnis) which naniwa evidently has broken. therefore gsl is entitled to refuse performance. The quasi contractual obligations of Naniwa was to NOT break the TOS or rules of the contract. There was no rule in the Blizzard Cup period that Naniwa Broke any rule. He was never late, he never talked while playing.. He never cursed.. He never bet.. What he did was probe Rush. And in that Contract GOM.TV had no such clause saying that probe rushing is a clear violation of contract for Blizzard Cup 2011.. There Naniwa Broke no Rule... GOm.TV has even admitted that Naniwa broke no rule themselves. What Gom TV was use their unjustified unilateral indiscretion, by making a judgement of a player that they thought was disrespecting a tournament. WHile, not taking into consideration of the contractual agreements GOM made to MLG Providence and the Players of MLG providence.
What obligations? MLG has openly admitted GOM was in their rights... Why are people citing contracts they haven't seen? GOM can remove any player in their tourny they wish. No rules have to be broken. They want a certain type of mentality from their players, and they're entitled to getting it. If Naniwa doesn't want to entertain then GOM doesn't want him playing. It's really simple. Even Naniwa understood and agreed with what they have to say, so I'm not sure why you're arguing a hypothetical as if it gives you a logical point to be angry at the reality of the situation.
|
On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
it is wrong to assume only rules promulgated by gom are all there is, when there are statutory regulations that are in force as well which naniwa breached.
|
On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before..
What he is saying is that you don't know what the contract looks like. We don't have the contract publicly anounced only what some of it says. For example we know that MLG will send some koreans to MLG and GOM will let some forginers in to GSL code A and S. but we don't know the details. Like, how long is the contract? what costs are MLG and GOM covering and what budget. ( Will the koreans get first class tickets or economics?) if they can change at any given time? And I think the most important, what is the punishment for breaking the contract. Will MLG be fined for not sending over 4 koreans or what will happen? We have the statements from both GOM and MLG that a contract was made but we don't have the details. That is what he means when he says "You make a ton of assumptions".
Edit: Also I would like to note that even if he didn't break any rules, I think he broke some vague rule about not offending the viewers or his oponent, GOM have every right to decide who is allowed to play in their tournament. If Naniwa shows that he is not up to the standard that korea expect of him as a pro gamer then they can ban him if they want. Natrually that would not ban him though since naniwa problebly learned from this mistake and will not do it again, and they know that Naniwa have a lot of fans who would love to see him play in the GSL.
|
On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments?
Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "?
oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM.
Also, it's not the question what HE would gain.
We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have.
And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future.
To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest.
It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
|
On December 19 2011 23:56 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:50 farnham wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. according to § 539 et seq (if the gsl mlg deal can be qualified as a so called echter vertrag zugunsten eines dritten)of the korean civil code naniwa could directly sue gom however as i stated multiple times there are quasi contractual obligations in the relationship naniwa - gsl (so called vollzugsverhältnis) which naniwa evidently has broken. therefore gsl is entitled to refuse performance. The quasi contractual obligations of Naniwa was to NOT break the TOS or rules of the contract. There was no rule in the Blizzard Cup period that Naniwa Broke any rule. He was never late, he never talked while playing.. He never cursed.. He never bet.. What he did was probe Rush. And in that Contract GOM.TV had no such clause saying that probe rushing is a clear violation of contract for Blizzard Cup 2011.. There Naniwa Broke no Rule... GOm.TV has even admitted that Naniwa broke no rule themselves. What Gom TV was use their unjustified unilateral indiscretion, by making a judgement of a player that they thought was disrespecting a tournament. WHile, not taking into consideration of the contractual agreements GOM made to MLG Providence and the Players of MLG providence.
there are not only contractual but statutory regulations as well (which are part of the contract unless expressly excluded)
naniwa breached such obligation as i stated already in this thread
|
He didnt just probe rush what he did was lose a game on purpose in an obvious way. Thats one of the very few things a progamer isnt allowed to do. Anybody with a tiny bit of common sense can see this was a mistake.
There are a lot of unwritten rules in life you know.
|
I'd rather have Idra anyways!
|
On December 19 2011 23:51 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing.
and that shouldn't be punished, to happily experience same shit in the furture?
coold story bro.
some Pro's would not agree.
|
On December 20 2011 00:07 secretary bird wrote:
He didnt just probe rush what he did was lose a game on purpose in an obvious way. Thats one of the very few things a progamer isnt allowed to do. Anybody with a tiny bit of common sense can see this was a mistake.
There are a lot of unwritten rules in life you know.
only that there are applicable statutory rules that prohibit such performance
|
On December 19 2011 23:51 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:37 The Void wrote:On December 19 2011 23:26 Hubris wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. The only disgusting thing is the fact that you're still arguing about this crap. You're not Naniwa, GOM, or MLG, so stop acting like you are. lol? would you please find another thread for talking bullshit? this is not about me, or you! if you don't care about this you shouldn't post here. You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do... and I'm the one "talking BS?" Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway. Even if he did, it's completely hypothetical, because he doesn't seem to care. He could've fought through code A like most people have to, but he's not. MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing. Besides, GOM is still seeding top MLG performers with their new system, Naniwa just got the boot because he was being immature. GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny.
you are really making a mockery and joke out what player's expectations are. Because Players and MLG expected the highest ranked non code S player to get the Code S spot for the next GSL season.. IT absolutely a Contractual Agreement.
And MLG even stated that it was a contractual agreement. Please stop lying and giving excuses for MLG and GOM"s coverup and deceitful lies to the public. They are straight out lying about this incident to legally clear their names if players try to sue MLG for misleading the players.
You're over here talking about legal actions for something MLG has stated GOM was in their contractual rights to do
Just because they say they are innocent doesn't mean they are innocent. They clearly broke a contract made between MLG, GOM and the Players.. I am starting to think you work for GomTV or something.
Naniwa isn't going to sue anyone, and in all odds doesn't have the right anyway
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If a party breaks a contract, it is the up to the other party to get just
for a party breaking an agreement. Clearly Naniwa does have the odds whether you like to think it or not. It has nothing to do with WHAT YOU THINK BUSTER.
MLG hyped a seed they didn't have rights to give out, as they've admitted. It's called marketing
They didn't hype a seed. They clearly Dictated to all literate speaking English language speakers that the CODE S spot WILL be given to the Highest ranked Non code S Player. What part of that English Don't you understand?
GOM is completely within their rights to deny anyone from a Code. It's their tourny.
that a very presumptious statement from you. GOM.TV can make whatever tournament they'd like. But in order for their program to succeed, players and the corporate body needs to make a binding contract that CLEARLY state the rules
of the tournament and behavior. IF either party breaks the terms of the agreement,it is right of the plaintiff to state the breach of contract. The defendent must state the reasons why they did not break the contract.
IN this example the Defendent is Clearly in the wrong and would be punished in the court of Law.. that would be GomTV and MLG. Players would win the suit. But Clearly Naniwa needs money to pay for lawyers, and that is why naniwa is realistically not going to go after GOMTV and MLG for their breach of conduct
User was warned for this post
|
On December 20 2011 00:03 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before.. it is wrong to assume only rules promulgated by gom are all there is, when there are statutory regulations that are in force as well which naniwa breached.
That goes for MLG/GOM issue aswell. Even though its in the contract that GOM have the right to change it, that doesnt mean that they can go about it how ever they want. Not informing MLG about a change before providence for example, which lead to false marketing and misleading players, teams, community, sponsors.
|
On December 20 2011 00:03 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:49 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:40 Myles wrote:On December 19 2011 23:15 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 23:02 Tula wrote:On December 19 2011 22:50 chatuka wrote:On December 19 2011 22:42 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 22:36 chatuka wrote:
really, if the player earned a spot in a tournament and decides to not play his best, that is his decision and his fate. that player will lose fans, sponsors, whatever. I don't think there is any rule that says that you have to try your best. People play their best in tournaments because of Money. If the player doesn't want to do their best, then they lose money. It's very simple.
Unless there is conspiracy or collusion going on with Mafia gangs and sports betting, then there is a reason why you should ban a player (I.E savior)
It's ashame what happened at the Blizzard Cup, but I don't think Naniwa should lose his Code S spot. The more appropriate response would have been a reprimand or a warning. Maybe adding an addendum to the GSL contract that says that any player that purposely throws a game will be revoked of the GSL Code S spot. However, since what GOM is doing is Ex Post Facto, which means After the FACT.. That there is NO Rule in the contract or game that says that Probe Rushing is a violation of policy of the GSL Blizzard CUP.. Naniwa would probably win the lawsuit given the chance. but really the cost to sue GOM would be prohibitive, since paying lawyers would outweigh the the compensation you get if Naniwa retained the Code S spot Sigh, no he has 0% chance of winning a lawsuit. Gom never promised Naniwa a spot so good luck starting there. The one that promised him a spot was MLG and they said it was within the right of GOM to change it. So not only he would have no legg to stand on, it would cost him a ton of a cash and blacklist him from playing in korea again for a long while if not forever. That makes no sense. MLG should have not guaranteeed a Code S spot, if GOM can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any point. Contracts are binding. If they are not binding there is no point in having a contract, which is an agreement in paper. It is not a contract, when some corporate body can change the terms and conditions of a contract at any moments notice. Therefore, legally Naniwa does have a leg to stand on, since MLG lied to all the players, saying that there was a Guaranteed Code S spot for the 2nd place runner up for Providence MLG. My point is that GOM can not change the terms and conditions of a contract. And logically it makes sense. Why would Gom give the Code S spot to another foreigner, After MLG promised the Code S spot to the runner-up of MLG Providence? I am really disappointed in Gom position and supercelious attitude towards their ability to leverage power in any situation that benefits their interests. If I was a SC2 player, I would never play for GOM again after what they did to Naniwa.. Seriously some structure wouldn't hurt your post. Some understanding of legal aspects wouldn't hurt either. First you have not read the contract unlike MLG and Gom, so how can you assume what it says? The only information we have says that the "change" of Gom was within their purview. Therefor they did not break the contract. So no legally Naniwa does not have a leg to stand on, no matter how often you repeat it. Gom considers (or considered) the Blizzard Cup spot to be worth more than Code S and from their PoV it might even be. They saw this as the crowning event of the season where only the best of the best can compete. Did they behave correctly? Personally i feel they should have sent an email to Naniwa explaining this change, but what confuses me is why Naniwa or his team did not inquire about his so called Code S spot themselves. Wouldn't you plan ahead a bit if it was your life? A simple email asking for the schedule for the Code S season he has a spot for, including group ceremonies etc. so he can book a flight would have cleared up that confusion as well. Your second paragraph is even stranger... You say they cannot change the terms of a contract which might be true (we don't know the wording of the contract remember, we only know the PR announcements, not the footnotes and any possible appendixes) but you definitly can't state that as an absolute. Many contracts include clauses which can be changed sometimes by one party, at other times only by both parties together. Judging from MLG's post this contract included a Clause that it was Gom's decision what constitutes a Code S equivalent tournament. "Logically it makes sense" ? What makes sense logically? There is no logic in your post, and i clearly lack the proper reference for this it. it is not strange.. it is very logical to understand. GOM promised a Code S spot to the MLG Providence highest ranked non code S player. And for 2012 Gom TV reniged on that agreement with MLG providence and completely disregarded the meaning of the MLG Providence Tournament for many aspiring Players. We understand what the contract was about. There was no clause in the contract that said that GOM.TV had the right to re-distribute the Code S spot at the whimsical needs. IF there was SUCH a Clause, MLG would have announced that the Highest ranking Non Code S player would NOT be guaranteed the Code S spot... Do you understand.. That, MLG DID promise the Code S spot to the highest ranked non code S player acording to the agreement made with GOM.TV.. THerefore that agreement is a Legally binding contract. Gom.TV Can NOT re-nig on that contract made to MLG providence and conveniently write a New contract for 2012 therefore giveing some kind of faux semi legitimate excuse to NOT give the highest ranked Non Code S player at MLG providence the Code S spot.. You make a ton of assumptions about stuff you aren't privy to, and you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple. MLG has stated the GOM was within their rights to change the deal. The fact that they made a press release stating the terms of the deal at the time is irreverent. That press release doesn't include the details of the contract and doesn't guarantee anything they said is even actually true. To argue what GOM did was wrong or underhanded is fine, but legally there is no recourse against them or MLG. There is nothing to assume.. The contract is explicit and very clear. If you can't see through the fog and deception that GOM is giving to you, that is your problem. A contract is a contract... if you can't get it through your head that GOM.TV had an obligation to give the highest ranked non code S player at MLG Providence a Code S spot that is your problem once again. Secondly, A contract can only be legally broken if a party or member breaks the terms of the agreement. For example. 1. Being over 15 minutes tardy.. Yes that was an explicit rule in contract that would result in a forfeit 2. talking while playing in a tournament is a disqualifiaction.. Tha is an explicit rule 3. Betting on the game (automatic) permanent ban.. Naniwa Broke NO RULES.. Yes what he did was kind of BM or Blaze, but he broke no rules. PROBE RUSHING is not a violation of TOS. And yes there is LEgal recourse against GOM and MLG. it is obvious as night and day. It you who can't see the forests from the trees. Unfortunately, in a game of power, Naniwa doesn't have the financial resources to go after Gom or MLG. but I bet that many players now, CAN NOT trust MLG or GOM's given promises, since THEY both have broken promises before.. it is wrong to assume only rules promulgated by gom are all there is, when there are statutory regulations that are in force as well which naniwa breached.
yeah like waht statutory regulations are you talking about? what you write makes no sense. A contract was broken by GOM.TV. MLG looks like fools now because they lied to ALL the MLG players that participated at Providence. This is a Big Deal.. Players need to stand up for themselves and allow themselves to run over by reckless behavior by an organization that does not take contractual obligations into consideration.
|
On December 20 2011 00:05 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 23:43 Assirra wrote:On December 19 2011 23:17 The Void wrote:
MLG stated multiple times that Naniwa got a spot in Code S. MLG is a partner of GOM in their exchange programm.
The player have to trust MLG (why shouldn't they until this incident).
So Naniwa should find a lawyer who takes legal actions against MLG. Than MLG could be forced to take on legal actions against GOM, or just say "ok it was our fault - we are sorry - we pay."
This would be the "professional" way to solve this whole disgusting situation.
But honestly i think Naniwa is tired of all that and just want to play quietly his game. Which is sad =[
E-Sports needs respectable organisations. Ok but now the question. What would he gain from it? The dislike from a lot of ppl from the MLG case and maybe a lifetime ban in korean tournaments? Why should he get banned, suggesting the outcome is that MLG made official statements they have to stick to (or did they say" *this is non-comittal "? oh, you think that korean organizers are even more curropt/not reliable than it looks like. lets give them a chance - we are not like GOM. Also, it's not the question what HE would gain. We all would eventually gain more reliable organizations in E-Sports, which would be nice to have. And they would know, that they cannot act in such a unprofessional way, thinking they get away with it, in the future. To clarify something on court isn't bad behavior, like you suggest. It would be good for all - players, organizers, community.
Hypothetical... For it to become reality Naniwa would have to either retract or go back on his public apology agreeing with GOM, and then hire a lawyer and sue the tourny that has given him his greatest achievements and possibly bar himself from every attending again. All the while, even if he wins, GOM remains untouched and nothing changes with the seeding system. I'm sure MLG has protected itself with some clause considering they knew very well they didn't have contractual rights to GOM's events.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
