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On December 10 2011 21:59 Mstring wrote:
Is this real life?
Carry on lads.
Fake edit: Go nani! >.>
Hey big boy, thx for your insight!
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On December 10 2011 21:58 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:25 Ninjahoe wrote:On December 10 2011 20:56 dignitas.merz wrote:On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote:
Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so. This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials. If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks. It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player. Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever. I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda  If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls. Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
"Totti spits opponents in the face"
"Zidane headbutts opponent in the world cup finals"
Yup, these guys are totally seen as idiots in the world of soccer, right?
Infact, they are both seen as some of the all-time greats, and are pretty much idolised in their countrys.
And i don't think you have actually watched to many interviews with soccer players. There are so many being very rude to the press. However i don't blame them, you do.
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On December 10 2011 22:07 Hydroxyl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:59 Mstring wrote:
Is this real life?
Carry on lads.
Fake edit: Go nani! >.> Hey big boy, thx for your insight!
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards,
Big boy
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On December 10 2011 21:51 NKsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:34 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 21:22 thirnaz wrote:On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote:
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you Love this kind of comments. And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager. if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for. What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched. What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion. That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten. Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said: In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality. you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him  i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more. who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish. On December 10 2011 21:22 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote:
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you Love this kind of comments. And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager. if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for. What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched. What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion. That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten. Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said: In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality. you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss. again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave But what are you talking about now? Naniwa would still be in his former teams? Who said he got kicked out of any? He left dignitas because he wanted into a korean pro house. Complexity was one of the only organization with a korean partnership so he joined them. Then as soon as it got out that Startale was going to become partners with Quantic, he instantly switched aswell. Coincidence? No. It's like he said, it didn't matter if he had been in complexity for 1 month or 10 years. MVP house didn't help at all, he played a maximum of 10 games in the MVP players.
On December 10 2011 21:43 Ninjahoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:34 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 21:22 thirnaz wrote:On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote:
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you Love this kind of comments. And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager. if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for. What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched. What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion. That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten. Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said: In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality. you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more. who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish. On December 10 2011 21:22 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote:
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you Love this kind of comments. And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager. if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for. What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched. What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion. That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten. Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said: In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality. you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss. again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave I'm pretty sure most of these teams didn't kick him, but he left. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but dignitas did not oppose to continue their run with Naniwa, but he wanted more support, and dignitas didn't want to spend that much for one single player, and that's why they chose not to prolong his contract with dignitas. Not that he didn't behave.
now I would really like to know where those dignitas stories are coming from? i didn't follow the TL threads too closely after dignitas released naniwa, so are these explainations just something people have made up because no explaination was given at the time? not saying any of you are right or wrong, just curious.,
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Naniwa I love you, will you be my friend?
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eh not a fan of naniwa but best of luck to him
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On December 10 2011 22:08 Ninjahoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:58 n0ise wrote:On December 10 2011 21:25 Ninjahoe wrote:On December 10 2011 20:56 dignitas.merz wrote:On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote:
Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so. This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials. If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks. It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player. Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever. I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls. Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story. "Totti spits opponents in the face" "Zidane headbutts opponent in the world cup finals" Yup, these guys are totally seen as idiots in the world of soccer, right? Infact, they are both seen as some of the all-time greats, and are pretty much idolised in their countrys. And i don't think you have actually watched to many interviews with soccer players. There are so many being very rude to the press. However i don't blame them, you do.
Yes it is pretty much, as time is money, structure's work to build the image of their players as they will represent their brand, sponsors and products, whereas players' one is to make results that will justify their image. Everybody at his place and everything will work smoothly.
When players have to do their own PR, as it will take their focus and time from the practice they need to do results, they will have to ask extra remuneration from their team as they do twice the work they are paid for, and will probably not have the same amount of cash price they would get if they focused 100% on practice.
This why where we have these akward situations where a player builds up a strong image by making alot of PR but doesn't have the results to back it off, and creates a schizophrenic reaction from the community with fans against antifans voice contests.
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On December 10 2011 21:58 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:25 Ninjahoe wrote:On December 10 2011 20:56 dignitas.merz wrote:On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote:
Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so. This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials. If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks. It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player. Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever. I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls. Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
I love this thread. I think it's proven that Naniwa IS a good PR-guy, he gets everyone talking
To comment on your football player statement: HAHAHA, are you insane? Just read newspapers, football is a god damn farse tbh! People calling each other scrubs and shit all over EU... BM in football? You sir made me laugh
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On December 10 2011 22:17 Hydroxyl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 22:08 Ninjahoe wrote:On December 10 2011 21:58 n0ise wrote:On December 10 2011 21:25 Ninjahoe wrote:On December 10 2011 20:56 dignitas.merz wrote:On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote:
Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so. This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials. If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks. It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player. Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever. I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls. Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story. "Totti spits opponents in the face" "Zidane headbutts opponent in the world cup finals" Yup, these guys are totally seen as idiots in the world of soccer, right? Infact, they are both seen as some of the all-time greats, and are pretty much idolised in their countrys. And i don't think you have actually watched to many interviews with soccer players. There are so many being very rude to the press. However i don't blame them, you do. Yes it is pretty much, as time is money, structure's work to build the image of their players as they will represent their brand, sponsors and products, whereas players' one is to make results that will justify their image. Everybody at his place and everything will work smoothly. When players have to do their own PR, as it will take their focus and time from the practice they need to do results, they will have to ask extra remuneration from their team as they do twice the work they are paid for, and will probably not have the same amount of cash price they would get if they focused 100% on practice. This why where we have these akward situations where a player builds up a strong image by making alot of PR but doesn't have the results to back it off, and creates a schizophrenic reaction from the community with fans against antifans voice contests.
However, PR is in for the long run, practice is overwhelmed when you are tilting. Tyler has so many fans right now even though he is tilted because he had a good image coming from BW.
Destiny, Catz, Tyler, Incontrol and many alike have fans that hang to them even when they are doing bad because the fans have a bond with the character not the player.
For instance, look at Sheth and Ret, both are monster zergs but Ret doesn't interact with the community that much. If both players lost their skills suddenly I think fans will forget Sheth a lot harder just because they know him as a character more than just a player.
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On December 10 2011 22:10 Mstring wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 22:07 Hydroxyl wrote:On December 10 2011 21:59 Mstring wrote:
Is this real life?
Carry on lads.
Fake edit: Go nani! >.> Hey big boy, thx for your insight! My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show. Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
If it happened to defy gravity, I would suspect it to not carry a weight.
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On December 10 2011 21:25 joshboy42 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:22 thirnaz wrote:On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote:
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you Love this kind of comments. And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager. if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for. What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched. What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion. That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten. Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said: In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality. you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more. I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
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On December 10 2011 09:30 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 09:24 Beakyboo wrote:
It's a little confusing that coL implies they were actively trying to get rid of him and then Naniwa completely contradicts this. Someone's lying and is going to look stupid. I don't even know what coL's motivation was in revealing that in the first place honestly, as it doesn't really achieve much but stir up drama. Better off just presenting it as a mutual decision rather than making vague insinuations and leaving it to the sewing circle TL forums to fill in the details. Yea, I was thinking that too. I wonder if the contract actually had a clause that allowed them to "sell" naniwa without his consent. That's a weird thing to have in a contract. Show nested quote +I also want to be clear this was not a mutual decision. This was solely compLexity's decision to do this. We were going to sell the contract to someone and we are happy that Naniwa and Quantic were able to come to terms.
What they are saying doesnt even make sense, clearly he wasnt happy there and maybe they came to him first saying we are looking to sell your contract but after that i dont see how it wasnt mutual, after they tell him that, whats he going to do? say no i want to stay on a team that doesnt want me? They are trying to make it seem like they had the upper hand in the deal to make themselves look better, but it just comes off as sounding douchey.
Ive never really liked complexity, they are kinda like EG in alot of ways , a big company that puts way too much stock in PR and not enough on results. When has one of their actual players done well in a tournament besides naniwa (by actual players i am excluding their partnership with mvp, mvp is still very much their own team) trimaster did okay i guess but since then hes pretty much done nothing (it was an impressive run and i like the guy but i havent heard anything about him since then) they have a very lackluster line up, selling naniwa was a HUGE HUGE mistake imo he is (i have no doubts about this) going to be one of the very top players in the world his results are already pointing in this direction. Who cares about a little attitude when you are on your way to becoming one of the best players in the scene, EG lets its slide with idra and they have done really well because of it. Col has got to lighten up a little bit or they and their line up are going to fade fromm everyones memory (at least tournament wise) im sure their players have lots of young fans who like to watch them stream because they are funny or charismatic that is only going to get you so far though , the most memorable teams are the teams with the superstars.
Alot of the very very best players in any sport have quirks that come with them, if you cant accept that as a team your not going to get very far.
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On December 10 2011 20:56 dignitas.merz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote:
Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so. This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials. If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks. It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
I would say you are right to some extent but it seems naive at the same time. Professional players rarely give interviews after matches willingly, its stated in their contracts that they have to. The same thing with commercials etc. Some do it because it just presents them with an oppertunity to make insane amounts of money for a relatively small effort. But not all of them do it, some people are just more private by nature. I see soccer examples being thrown around. Remember Paul Scoles? A briliant midfielder for Man U but a very private person, never exposed himself to the public unless ordered to. He let his performance on the field speak for itself.
Players performances are what teams buy when they acquire their ace players. Players that are good AND presentable are therefor worth twice as much in the eyes of teams just because its so rare and that is something people tend to forget.
Players like incontrol, catz are important in their own right for their exposure but only because we have these other pro gamers that present the fans with amazing matches. If we had a scene with only incontrols, catz and destiny's the sc2-scene would die. Im not intentionally bashing just saying we need both.
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On December 10 2011 22:41 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 21:25 joshboy42 wrote:On December 10 2011 21:22 thirnaz wrote:On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote:
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you Love this kind of comments. And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager. if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for. What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched. What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion. That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten. Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said: In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him. Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality. you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more. I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom. How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
Hehe good 'ol Ingvar Kamprad indeed doesn't spend a penny if he doesn't have to, and he's a very succesful man
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Naniwa shows results and he is someone that is talked about and even though he's often times maybe not in control of his emotions, I for one part don't mind that at all. At the end of the day, Naninwa places high again and the haters haven't even made it out of the open bracket.
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On December 10 2011 22:35 Hydroxyl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 22:10 Mstring wrote:On December 10 2011 22:07 Hydroxyl wrote:On December 10 2011 21:59 Mstring wrote:
Is this real life?
Carry on lads.
Fake edit: Go nani! >.> Hey big boy, thx for your insight! My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show. Regards, Big boy Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
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Naniwa does what he thinks is best for him.
What's so strange about that.
GL Nani and GL complexity.
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If incontrol make as much or more than nani it's a god damned tragedy and a testament to the folly of mankind.
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Nice interview. Interesting about the coL bit about how they see Catz hitting 5k viewers the same as him finishing 2nd in MLG. I wonder if they would echo that thought.
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naniwa got so skinny in korea.
frightening.
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EPT
