On December 11 2011 03:55 QuanticCinergy wrote: This is Mark Ferraz, Founder & CEO of Quantic. I would like to officially state that Complexity's statements have been nothing but truthful about the official communications relating to the transfer. Jason Lake was the first person to approach me about the Naniwa trade. That being said, I believe NaNi was speaking with SaSe about the possibility at the same time and that has created the confusion in this situation. Complexity handled this matter as professionally as possible from my stand point and the numerous posts slinging mud in their direction are misguided. I hope this clears up the situation and everyone can now move on.
The first interview since NaNiwa has moved to quantic, explaining what happened, why it happened and his plans for the future.
NaNiwa is staying in the StarTale house and arrived today, he sat down with us to discuss all that has been going on and put his side of the story across, what do you guys think?
From the interview "It something about money of course but basically I lived at startale before i lived at mvp and I just liked it way way better, no offence to mvp guys obviously, they are nice people but I liked it a lot more here[StarTale]"
"It is the same for them if CatZ hits 5k viewers on his stream or that I place 2nd at an MLG and I did not agree with that point of view"
You can also check out other great StarTale content at our youtube, website and see the teamliquid thread about INSIDE THE STARTALE HOUSE here.
*My personal feeling, not that of my websites or sponsors is that NaNiwa is a really nice guy deep down, such a dedicated and devoted player, he is a champion that is for sure and he has his own goal, he does not deserve 90% of the trash he has thrown at him, I wish him all the best in the future*
Naniwa is definitely one of my favorite players. He has the attitude of a champion. I dont care whether he is socially akward or not, he has the drive to be the best and thats all that matters to me.
I think the community makes him look more bm than he actually is, and also some well known people in the community are making him look bad (eg. The retarded jokes on SOTG that has been going on the 4 latest shows). Loved naniwas casting yesterday, such a funny guy :D Thanks for doing a shit ton of esports coverage jbanks :D
On December 10 2011 09:09 shabby wrote: Whatever floats his boat, really. If this is better for him in his quest to become the best, then it's the right choice.
yea agree with you on that, he got to do what he feels will give him the best chance of winning.
I just like Naniwa a bit better due to his view on popularity versus actual skills in a competitive game. Edit: regarding players of course, Day9 and other casters are fine to be charismatic and popular.
I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Loving these interviews Jbanks. You guys are awesome. Everyone should respect this guy no matter what he does or what he says, it's all for being better at StarCraft 2, that's all he cares about.
doesnt make much sense for a foreigner who wants to train in korea to improve there play to be in a korean house where the korean players dont even play with you. good move by naniwa to make the switch in teams and houses.
Thanks for the interview. There seems to be a large difference between what the two parties are saying on the matter. Regardless I'm still a fan of NaNiWa.
On December 10 2011 09:15 qqK wrote: I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Becuase Complexity keep losing all there star players. Kiwi,Destiny, Stephano now Naniwa its bad PR and they knows it.
Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
On December 10 2011 09:15 qqK wrote: I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Becuase Complexity keep losing all there star players. Kiwi,Destiny, Stephano now Naniwa its bad PR and they knows it.
They never lost KiWi, he never signed a contract with them.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
On December 10 2011 09:15 qqK wrote: I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Becuase Complexity keep losing all there star players. Kiwi,Destiny, Stephano now Naniwa its bad PR and they knows it.
They never lost KiWi, he never signed a contract with them.
Complexity bought Root right but Kiwi refused? thats also losing a player
It's a little confusing that coL implies they were actively trying to get rid of him and then Naniwa completely contradicts this. Someone's lying and is going to look stupid. I don't even know what coL's motivation was in revealing that in the first place honestly, as it doesn't really achieve much but stir up drama. Better off just presenting it as a mutual decision rather than making vague insinuations and leaving it to the TL forums to fill in the details.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you kidding me? He beat both MVP and Nestea (twice) at MLG + DRG and Huk.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
"It is the same for them if CatZ hits 5k viewers on his stream or that I place 2nd at an MLG and I did not agree with that point of view"
Someone want to explain that to me? what does Catz have to do with it?
What he's trying to say is that complexity rewards exposure as much as performance. So if CatZ gets that many viewers and they all see CoL's sponsors, it's worth just as much as Naniwa getting 2nd in a huge tournament.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
You can nitpick any players matches and find some bad games. If we do the same to Idra. Idra lost 3 games to no names at WCG and is stuck in masters in Korea at a 50% win ratio wow he must be so horrible!! trollface
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you kidding me? He beat both MVP and Nestea (twice) at MLG + DRG and Huk.
I'm not talking about the global invitational. Nestea also lost a game to Idra, Kiwikaki and two to Haypro. He clearly was not playing anywhere near his best. And the last time Huk won a PvP in a best of x was in Orlando. That's a long time ago.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
you could also say code s players would never make it up to code S if they would have to make it through code A everytime. But thats how the system works and Naniwa was a runner up pretty much the same way like Lennock, so its a bad example to say he wouldn't be able to do it .
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
wow the hate o.O "utterly outclassed", are you sure you are not being a little bit biased here?
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
You can nitpick any players matches and find some bad games. If we do the same to Idra. Idra lost 3 games to no names at WCG and is stuck in masters in Korea at a 50% win ratio wow he must be so horrible!! trollface
Now plz stop the hate
I'm not saying he's horrible, I'm saying he's way over rated. As is Idra, but that's another argument.
On December 10 2011 09:24 Beakyboo wrote: It's a little confusing that coL implies they were actively trying to get rid of him and then Naniwa completely contradicts this. Someone's lying and is going to look stupid. I don't even know what coL's motivation was in revealing that in the first place honestly, as it doesn't really achieve much but stir up drama. Better off just presenting it as a mutual decision rather than making vague insinuations and leaving it to the sewing circle TL forums to fill in the details.
Yea, I was thinking that too.
I wonder if the contract actually had a clause that allowed them to "sell" naniwa without his consent. That's a weird thing to have in a contract.
I also want to be clear this was not a mutual decision. This was solely compLexity's decision to do this. We were going to sell the contract to someone and we are happy that Naniwa and Quantic were able to come to terms.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you kidding me? He beat both MVP and Nestea (twice) at MLG + DRG and Huk.
I'm not talking about the global invitational. Nestea also lost a game to Idra, Kiwikaki and two to Haypro. He clearly was not playing anywhere near his best. And the last time Huk won a PvP in a best of x was in Orlando. That's a long time ago.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
You can nitpick any players matches and find some bad games. If we do the same to Idra. Idra lost 3 games to no names at WCG and is stuck in masters in Korea at a 50% win ratio wow he must be so horrible!! trollface
Now plz stop the hate
I'm not saying he's horrible, I'm saying he's way over rated. As is Idra, but that's another argument.
Dude Starcraft 2 is not black and white. You can just judge a few bad games. Nestea lost to Haypro at MLG does that make nestea bad? No, ofcourse not. You have to take a players matches and achievement over a longer period of time and then you can get a picture about how good the player is..
And in Naniwa´s case he is a champion and a code S player
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
You can nitpick any players matches and find some bad games. If we do the same to Idra. Idra lost 3 games to no names at WCG and is stuck in masters in Korea at a 50% win ratio wow he must be so horrible!! trollface
Now plz stop the hate
I'm not saying he's horrible, I'm saying he's way over rated. As is Idra, but that's another argument.
Just to be clear you would also put HuK on that overrated list, right?
On December 10 2011 09:19 rUiNati0n wrote: Thanks for the interview. There seems to be a large difference between what the two parties are saying on the matter. Regardless I'm still a fan of NaNiWa.
I don't really see any huge contradiction between what Naniwa says in this interview and what was said by Complexity in their initial statement and on reddit.
What they said was that they realised that Naniwa didn't match their core values and if what Naniwa said about Complexity's focus on streams etc.etc. was true and he made his disapproval of their position known to them, then that could have been when they realised that Naniwa didn't fit into their view of esports.
The Complexity-Quantic deal and the details surrounding that seem to be what there is most disagreement about, but at the same time, Complexity's statements regarding the deal have been so vague that it's still within reason that Naniwa's explaination is true (to an extent atleast). Complexity only stated that they approached Quantic with the deal and that Naniwa was getting traded whether he wanted to or not, that doesn't say anything at all about why they approached Quantic first, which means that what Naniwa said about him talking to Complexity before the deal and saying that he wanted to go to Quantic has not been contested at all (yet).
To me the only part that seems to be in direct contradiction to what Complexity has said is the ''whether he wanted to or not''-part, which goes against what Naniwa said about him being able to refuse to leave.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
LOL! The majority of huks games at mlg Orlando where pvp? You don't even have a clue lol... There's no shame in losing to DRG, he's a code-s player.
On December 10 2011 09:15 qqK wrote: I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Becuase Complexity keep losing all there star players. Kiwi,Destiny, Stephano now Naniwa its bad PR and they knows it.
They never lost KiWi, he never signed a contract with them.
Complexity bought Root right but Kiwi refused? thats also losing a player
No, KiWi never decided to join them, neither did slush.
Interesting interview, cleared up some things but still kinda sketchy in a way.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
Haha, that was a good one. You almost had me there.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
LOL! The majority of huks games at mlg Orlando where pvp? You don't even have a clue lol... There's no shame in losing to DRG, he's a code-s player.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
'Ahh ok, So its only Huk among all the worlds players that travels so much? got it.
Great to hear it straight from Naniwa without it being filtered through a team site. He has a clear vision of what he wants from his career and makes some hard decision to make it a reality. Hopefully people will stop bashing him for some made up reasons and let all this "bm" whine go. In most sports there are players/athletes that are hard to work with but that egotistical drive is often a part of what makes them so determined and good. Not everyone in life are manner bears, its just the way it is. But I believe most eSport fans can rally behind the reasoning that he values skill and results above PR and exposure.
Assuming Naniwa is correct about the importance of exposure to Complexity, this gives interesting insight into the differences in team priorities. He seems composed and thoughtful in this interview. Good PR for him.
i thinks naniwa's version makes more sense, but then again i do not care about that unworthy drama that unfolds every now and then, the important thing is that the good players get to play, and naniwa is undoubtly one of the finest protoss out there.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
He travels just as much as Huk does. So biased it hurts. HuK and NaniWa are VERY similar in skill and results. Only thing putting HuK ahead is a decent couple of runs in the GSL. Something Naniwa will either be able to show or lag behind after next season.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
LOL! The majority of huks games at mlg Orlando where pvp? You don't even have a clue lol... There's no shame in losing to DRG, he's a code-s player.
He hasn't won a PvP since Orlando...
As far as I'm aware he has only played one pvp between Orlando and Providence and that's versus elfi at Asus RoG. Your statement is still pretty stupid to me.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
'Ahh ok, So its only Huk among all the worlds players that travels so much? got it.
You know how silly you sound?
Naniwa has like half the schedule of Huk in travel.
Raleigh in August DH Valencia (where he lost to Rain) in September Then Blizzcon.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
he beat nestea, mvp, and huk, does a good finals against leenock since even huk (code s player) got 0-2
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
LOL! The majority of huks games at mlg Orlando where pvp? You don't even have a clue lol... There's no shame in losing to DRG, he's a code-s player.
He hasn't won a PvP since Orlando...
As far as I'm aware he has only played on pvp between Orlando and Providence and that's versus elfi at Asus RoG. Your statement is still pretty stupid to me.
I didn't say between those two, I said since Orlando. He has lost to elfi, Naniwa, Seiplo and HasuObs. I'm saying he hasn't been doing well in PvP since Orlando. That can't be argued against.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
he beat nestea, mvp, and huk, does a good finals against leenock since even huk (code s player) got 0-2
do you know what you talking about?
Nothing in your post contradicted his.
MVP was in the GI only. How is losing 4-1 a good finals. He did the exact same build every game, and got destroyed for it. Please know what you're talking about.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
'Ahh ok, So its only Huk among all the worlds players that travels so much? got it.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you kidding me? He beat both MVP and Nestea (twice) at MLG + DRG and Huk.
I'm not talking about the global invitational. Nestea also lost a game to Idra, Kiwikaki and two to Haypro. He clearly was not playing anywhere near his best. And the last time Huk won a PvP in a best of x was in Orlando. That's a long time ago.
Why are you willing to apply the idea that players can't be judged in their entirety based on results in a select few series to nestea and huk, but not naniwa?
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
If you don't see how your logic is pure nonsense, then I'm actually sorry for you.
On December 10 2011 09:10 m3rciless wrote: AHahahaha complexity so stupid. Who the fuck cares if catz hits 5k? NaNi fighting!
I seriously doubt they ever said that too him. It seemed like that was just an arbitrary example based on his impressions of the organization. Keep in mind there is probably a lot of personal bias in that statement. I'm sure there was probably a lot of pressure to stream though.
Hmm, complexity obviously disagrees with what Naniwa said. Not that I care though, I'm really tired of these dramas.
If complexity thinks there was a problem with Naniwa's behavior, they could say it straight up instead of hinting it here and there.
If they don't want to look back by talking about their former players that way, then they could have chosen to say nothing. It's not like that's bad PR for them, we all know a lot about Naniwa's personality, he will probably still get much more shit even if complexity chose to stay silent, and non would really blame them for not wanting to deal with Naniwa.
This time Naniwa really didn't say anything negative about complexity, but complexity owners used a very aggressive tone talking about him, yet still tried to reveal nothing.
This is just really annoying for someone who just wants to enjoy the games.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
he beat nestea, mvp, and huk, does a good finals against leenock since even huk (code s player) got 0-2
do you know what you talking about?
Nothing in your post contradicted his.
MVP was in the GI only. How is losing 4-1 a good finals. He did the exact same build every game, and got destroyed for it. Please know what you're talking about.
whats the difference between winning in a tournament or another? he beat them in the same weekend, you are trying to make an awesome player seem bad, and he's not, also the finals were very close all the games
Given all of his past behavior people still point to this event as if it was an isolated incident that can be explained away by the OTHER party's bad BM. how long is that going to last until people realize he's an incredibly talented douche as opposed to just incredibly talented.
Why are you discussing MLG results in this thread? Thx for derailing everything, Dexington. Naniwa is clearly a foreigner star. That's why he gets all of this attention.
On December 10 2011 09:05 careohx wrote: Naniwa is definitely one of my favorite players. He has the attitude of a champion. I dont care whether he is socially akward or not, he has the drive to be the best and thats all that matters to me.
I totally agree, I like his attitude mindset a lot.
But I mean...you can still try to have a little bit of fun in interviews and give more than 2 word answers. Troll or whatever, idc just do something else than make it awkward for the interviewers and the viewers. It's not actually that hard, you can go korean style and say 'My opponent is really good but I worked hard so I think I can win' or go troll/confident mode and say 'If it's not a 4-0, he got lucky *laugh.*' Great, GREAT player and I think it's important to stay focused on the game and not do stuff like coaching if you really want to be at the top, but in the middle of the tournament, you're doing an interview ANYWAY so TINY little effort would be awesome.
That's my only criticism. I cheer for him always anyway. If he doesn't want to be bothered, too bad, I think he could easily gain a lot more fans which would boost his motivation no doubt.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
LOL! The majority of huks games at mlg Orlando where pvp? You don't even have a clue lol... There's no shame in losing to DRG, he's a code-s player.
He hasn't won a PvP since Orlando...
As far as I'm aware he has only played on pvp between Orlando and Providence and that's versus elfi at Asus RoG. Your statement is still pretty stupid to me.
I didn't say between those two, I said since Orlando. He has lost to elfi, Naniwa, Seiplo and HasuObs. I'm saying he hasn't been doing well in PvP since Orlando. That can't be argued against.
Besides seiplo all of them are top tier players? Doesn't really say anything about him playing bad pvp since then. He beat hero at providence and going 2-3 against hasuobs isn't really a big deal.
Smart move by Naniwa, having a fellow foreigner of the same race around your skill level while in a pro house will really help you out skill wise, being in the startale house will give naniwa better practice, and his mental condition will stay healthy now that he has another swede to socialize with. All these points are strong enough reasons to break with complexity and I'm sure it will show in his play come code S.
On December 10 2011 09:45 cskalias.pbe wrote: Given all of his past behavior people still point to this event as if it was an isolated incident that can be explained away by the OTHER party's bad BM. how long is that going to last until people realize he's an incredibly talented douche as opposed to just incredibly talented.
No one is arguing that he's a nice person.
Even as a fan of Naniwa, we all know he's hard to manage in a team, have high demands, and sometimes act really unprofessional in a stressful situation.
Nonetheless, if complexity really feels there's a need, then they could have chosen to say it STRAIGHT UP.
Or they could remain silent, and it would still be reasonable and fine.
What I don't get is.....why did they take the half-ass approach by hinting negative shit here and there, but refuse to say anything in particular?
I mean, if they have said "Naniwa was a douche on our team and we just can't handle him anymore." Me and a lot of others would be fine with it, because its probably true.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Yeah it's not like Huk beat HerO right before he played Naniwa
I have no qualms with wanting to win so badly, but don't bite the hand that feeds you. You can't go all out on just trying to become a better gamer, although it should be your biggest priority
On December 10 2011 09:54 Sif_ wrote: i dont know...i tend not to root for players who keep jumping teams, whatever reason they have.
it doesnt really matter to me, it seems we don't have strong meaning in teams like teamleagues with great storyline and things like that, even in GSTL its not so hyped, wish teams could get mean as much as did in broodwar, where you have epic matches like SKT x KT, even people who not played bw, like me, know how awesome it is
I figured it out! Dexington is really Naniwa in disguise. He's making up fake (and obviously dumb) arguments so that people will argue against him out of their natural urge to call out idiocy, therefore encouraging fan support for who he really is!
On another note (a surprisingly on-topic one), I think Naniwa is really good and I hope he does well in GSL. I think I could imagine him in a semi final honestly.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Naniwa has showed before that he can take the long way. He beat the two koreans whos conisidered by many to be the best. Why do you hate on that? Who hurt you Dexington?
On December 10 2011 09:22 Michaels wrote: Is complexity always trying to make players look bad, just because they dont want to be with them anymore? Im starting to see a pattern here
Complexity are pretty much the thugs of esport, once you're dealing with them they will drop the big guns, use the network they're affiliated with to attempt to degradate your image as an human being ("I herd you need a psychological assistance") and try to intimidate you like they're some highschool bullies, not only behind the scene but also publicly like we saw Jason Lake's comment on reddit earlier.
On December 10 2011 09:19 Le BucheRON wrote: Naniwa has the eye of the tiger.
complexity doesn't reward eye of the tiger = /
Sounds like complexity don't reward a player wanting more money after 1 result lol =p
Mostly seems to be he said/she said with Nani saying he wasn't getting booted and complexity saying he was lol. I tend to beleive the Col side of things but it was nice to hear Naniwa talking about it anyway.
Nice interview, think the interviewer did a good job and cool to hear Naniwa's side of the story. Anyway, good luck to Naniwa really hope he keeps up his insane practicing and does well in the future, he deserves it
Im really happy about Nani switching to quantic. He's my favorite player and i've never cared much for col, I was actually a bit disappointed when he joined them to begin with. Now let's see what Nani and Sase can do together =) And i don't see what everybody's on about all the time... He almost never bm anymore (yeah he calls it how he see it, but he's not being mean to players or anything). And i don't understand where everybody gets the socially akward thing from, I've probably watched all the interviews with Nani and he seems like a normal guy to me. Oh well, haters gonna hate i guess -.-
i love you nani. screw haters, if people dont see how passionate player and nice guy you are, screw em! big respect from croatia bro, and kick some asss
On December 10 2011 09:19 Le BucheRON wrote: Naniwa has the eye of the tiger.
complexity doesn't reward eye of the tiger = /
Sounds like complexity don't reward a player wanting more money after 1 result lol =p
Mostly seems to be he said/she said with Nani saying he wasn't getting booted and complexity saying he was lol. I tend to beleive the Col side of things but it was nice to hear Naniwa talking about it anyway.
A-teamer got higher pay than B-teamer obviously right? I believe Nani is the best player on CoL, don't count MVP tho.
Hearing it from Naniwa, the move almost sounds cordial. If so, what's up with the campaign by Complexity to make it seem like Naniwa is some big problem, and that they pretty much fired him from the team? I'm sure I saw someone from Complexity make that claim, that he had no say in the matter. Obviously someone is lying. This is not just a case of "exaggerations" or "misunderstanding".
The more I hear about how Complexity do stuff, the less I like them. I like some of their players (qxc fighting!), but the organization seems rotten.
On December 10 2011 10:20 GreEny K wrote: I agree with Naniwa's decision, but he should have picked a better a better team...
I don't see why qxg wouldn't be a good team?
He will be able to stay with sase and practice in the startale house with ace and squirtle, who I think he said helped him a lot
A better team, in my opinion, as I don't like QxG.
So pro players should choose teams based on your opinions on them? Wat? And what is wrong with Quantic? They seem like pretty cool dudes.
Calm down chief, just my opinion... Obviously you want players you like to go to teams you like... If you don't, you're not human. And didn't QxG break up their deal with ST?
On December 10 2011 09:19 Le BucheRON wrote: Naniwa has the eye of the tiger.
complexity doesn't reward eye of the tiger = /
Sounds like complexity don't reward a player wanting more money after 1 result lol =p
Mostly seems to be he said/she said with Nani saying he wasn't getting booted and complexity saying he was lol. I tend to beleive the Col side of things but it was nice to hear Naniwa talking about it anyway.
He came second in EU battle.net inv, fourth at blizzcon, won the EU mlg invitational, won the world mlg invitational and came second at mlg providence. By far Complexity's most successful player no?
On December 10 2011 09:19 Le BucheRON wrote: Naniwa has the eye of the tiger.
complexity doesn't reward eye of the tiger = /
Sounds like complexity don't reward a player wanting more money after 1 result lol =p
Mostly seems to be he said/she said with Nani saying he wasn't getting booted and complexity saying he was lol. I tend to beleive the Col side of things but it was nice to hear Naniwa talking about it anyway.
He came second in EU battle.net inv, fourth at blizzcon, won the EU mlg invitational, won the world mlg invitational and came second at mlg providence. By far Complexity's most successful player no?
Definitely... No other player on their roster has such an accomplished carrier in SC2.
i like the hypocrisy (disregarding the contradictions between nani and jason lake) of naniwa leaving ebcause complexity supposedly valued catz 5k viewers same as naniwa's 2nd place....yet he goes to QxG with Destiny, the guy who has similar skills to catz (better, but still relatively similar in tournament placements when they've participated) but is the biggest streamer thats a player.....
it just makes his entire interview seem like he's covering face by having that flaw, whether he is or not covering face.
Results are the only thing that matter to me as well. Guy certainly gets a lot of flack. Honest, hardworking and others say he's hard to manage. Whatever.
On December 10 2011 10:36 darklight54321 wrote: i like the hypocrisy (disregarding the contradictions between nani and jason lake) of naniwa leaving ebcause complexity supposedly valued catz 5k viewers same as naniwa's 2nd place....yet he goes to QxG with Destiny, the guy who has similar skills to catz (better, but still relatively similar in tournament placements when they've participated) but is the biggest streamer thats a player.....
it just makes his entire interview seem like he's covering face by having that flaw, whether he is or not covering face.
I think Nani was stating that coL valued advertisement more than accomplishment. From what I saw in the original interview Nani said that coL didn't plan to send any other players to Korea either which, understandably, could get frustrating.
On December 10 2011 10:20 GreEny K wrote: I agree with Naniwa's decision, but he should have picked a better a better team...
I don't see why qxg wouldn't be a good team?
He will be able to stay with sase and practice in the startale house with ace and squirtle, who I think he said helped him a lot
A better team, in my opinion, as I don't like QxG.
So pro players should choose teams based on your opinions on them? Wat? And what is wrong with Quantic? They seem like pretty cool dudes.
Calm down chief, just my opinion... Obviously you want players you like to go to teams you like... If you don't, you're not human. And didn't QxG break up their deal with ST?
They broke up their deal with IM. They've made a deal with ST right now.
From what Lake said, it sounds like Nani didn't have much a choice what team he went to anyways.
On December 10 2011 10:36 darklight54321 wrote: i like the hypocrisy (disregarding the contradictions between nani and jason lake) of naniwa leaving ebcause complexity supposedly valued catz 5k viewers same as naniwa's 2nd place....yet he goes to QxG with Destiny, the guy who has similar skills to catz (better, but still relatively similar in tournament placements when they've participated) but is the biggest streamer thats a player.....
it just makes his entire interview seem like he's covering face by having that flaw, whether he is or not covering face.
I think that his point is that col is a "team of catz" if you will. While Quantic has Destiny, but also has players like Sase who are dominating powerhouses
On December 10 2011 09:19 Le BucheRON wrote: Naniwa has the eye of the tiger.
complexity doesn't reward eye of the tiger = /
Sounds like complexity don't reward a player wanting more money after 1 result lol =p
Mostly seems to be he said/she said with Nani saying he wasn't getting booted and complexity saying he was lol. I tend to beleive the Col side of things but it was nice to hear Naniwa talking about it anyway.
eye of the tiger is a state of mind!
being able to entertain people on a stream is not eye of tiger!
where would rocky be if he didn't have eye of the tiger? would he be fighting the current boxing champ even though people are telling him he's too old? no! he'd be on complexity
On December 10 2011 10:36 darklight54321 wrote: i like the hypocrisy (disregarding the contradictions between nani and jason lake) of naniwa leaving ebcause complexity supposedly valued catz 5k viewers same as naniwa's 2nd place....yet he goes to QxG with Destiny, the guy who has similar skills to catz (better, but still relatively similar in tournament placements when they've participated) but is the biggest streamer thats a player.....
it just makes his entire interview seem like he's covering face by having that flaw, whether he is or not covering face.
What he means(I presume obv' im no nani) is that catz gets the same bonus for hitting 5k stream viewrs as nani got for finishing second in mlg, nani feels like second place at one of the hardest tournements of all time deserves a bigger bonus than hitting 5k viewers, At QxG i can only presume that he will be rewarded alot better(atleast relatively) compared to people like destiny hitting big stream numbers.
naniwa said he instigated the move from complexity to quantic, but jason lake (owner of complexity) said on reddit
that We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not.
Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: naniwa said he instigated the move from complexity to quantic, but jason lake (owner of complexity) said on reddit
that We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not.
Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Then why did they pick him up less than a month ago? It doesn't make sense to pick someone up and then sell him right away unless that person didn't want to be there. He hasn't changed in the past month, he is the same person, so they knew what they were getting into.
"complexity didn't want to reward me" ... so basically he wanted a bonus on top of compLexity takes 0% from prize money,allowing him to live in Korea, and giving him a salary ... nice
Anyway, I don't know who to believe since every time one side talks it contradicts what the other is saying. All I can do s with both sides good luck from this point on and hope that Naniwa sticks with Quantic for a while.
I wonder how mr. Lake was planning on selling him to a team where he did not want to go. That is, why would a team want to buy a contract of a player who doesn't want to play for them?
On December 10 2011 09:19 Le BucheRON wrote: Naniwa has the eye of the tiger.
complexity doesn't reward eye of the tiger = /
Sounds like complexity don't reward a player wanting more money after 1 result lol =p
Mostly seems to be he said/she said with Nani saying he wasn't getting booted and complexity saying he was lol. I tend to beleive the Col side of things but it was nice to hear Naniwa talking about it anyway.
He came second in EU battle.net inv, fourth at blizzcon, won the EU mlg invitational, won the world mlg invitational and came second at mlg providence. By far Complexity's most successful player no?
Wasn't/Isn't he #1 on MLG thing from throughout the year and placed high at all of them even when koreans were dominating?(like top 2/3 foreign player)
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: naniwa said he instigated the move from complexity to quantic, but jason lake (owner of complexity) said on reddit
that We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not.
Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Then why did they pick him up less than a month ago? It doesn't make sense to pick someone up and then sell him right away unless that person didn't want to be there. He hasn't changed in the past month, he is the same person, so they knew what they were getting into.
They most likely picked him up because they were confident that he would behave himself in public and be satisfied with the mvp house. which did not happen.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
I have no idea how you watched the games vs lucky from code A and decide to call that 'utterly outclassed'.....? First game was close, 2nd game he fucked up and died to lings, that tells you............ fuck all about someones skill level.
On December 10 2011 10:39 GreEny K wrote:From what I saw in the original interview Nani said that coL didn't plan to send any other players to Korea either which, understandably, could get frustrating.
Of course, Jason Lake specifically says that NaNiwa is full of crap on that point, and given that he's the owner of the team I'm inclined to believe him.
So far everything else seems pretty consistent. The coL position seems to be that they sold him on because his undeniably awesome game wasn't enough to compensate for his difficult attitude (which is pretty consistent with his WC3 career and his departures from previous teams including dignitas, mTw and MYM). The NaNiwa position seems to be that he's glad to be rid of coL and be in a new environment. Those two things seem pretty complementary.
Edit: GreEny K: It's easy to say 'they knew what they were getting into' but they probably didn't. It's one thing to say 'Player X has a bad attitude' and another to know exactly what that entails. IdrA's rep is that he's bad mannered, but also that he's extremely easy to work with and manage out of game. NaNiwa's is more that he's tough to handle outside the game. He's been DQed from a couple tournaments and removed from teams because of that before. It's entirely possible that coL picked him up hoping that he'd matured significantly as a person over his time at dignitas. It's also possible that they looked at his talent and his results and decided to sign him because he, unlike all the other players they could have signed (except Stephano, that's a separate issue) could have made them a major SC2 power team.
On December 10 2011 10:46 Hundisilm wrote: I wonder how mr. Lake was planning on selling him to a team where he did not want to go. That is why would a team want to buy a contract of a player who doesn't want to play for them?
I don't think Nani cares what team he's on so long as he can stay in Korea and train, and so long as that team continues to send him to tourneys.
Thank you to StarTale, UpCloseGamers, JBanks for the interview! I like Naniwas honesty and his determination and mind goals are unique.
NaNiwa - The Dragonslayer with the eye of the tiger! FIGHTINGGGGGGGGGGG !!!!
I cannot wait for Blizzard Cup, even if it does not go awesome for him I know that he will be back stronger than ever. I cannot wait for his debut in Code S !!
I still remember his tweet (saying more or less the following) "Fuck my life, I will train harder than ever" :D, so awesome.
Really good interview, cleared up a lot of stuff and shut down some assumptions that could easily have been made. Keep on praccing and ripping up dem tournies. Nani hwaiting! We'll keep on rooting for ya
Really good interview. Clears a lot of stuff up. And it appears that naniwa is really trying to clean up his image a bit, he had really good answers to all the questions.
On December 10 2011 09:10 Eee wrote: I think the community makes him look more bm than he actually is, and also some well known people in the community are making him look bad (eg. The retarded jokes on SOTG that has been going on the 4 latest shows). Loved naniwas casting yesterday, such a funny guy :D Thanks for doing a shit ton of esports coverage jbanks :D
Being from Sweden clearly isn't biasing you at all.
On December 10 2011 10:52 blackone wrote: How does this interview clear anything up? If anything it raises more questions because it's contradicting everything col has stated.
because the majority of the people posting here has a blind love for naniwa and trusts everything he says.
On December 10 2011 10:52 blackone wrote: How does this interview clear anything up? If anything it raises more questions because it's contradicting everything col has stated.
because the majority of the people posting here has a blind love for naniwa and trusts everything he says.
and 2 haters trying to start drama and interrupt the love in.
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: naniwa said he instigated the move from complexity to quantic, but jason lake (owner of complexity) said on reddit
that We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not.
Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Then why did they pick him up less than a month ago? It doesn't make sense to pick someone up and then sell him right away unless that person didn't want to be there. He hasn't changed in the past month, he is the same person, so they knew what they were getting into.
They most likely picked him up because they were confident that he would behave himself in public and be satisfied with the mvp house. which did not happen.
behave in public?
you kidding?
no, no and no.
They had a difference of opinion and from the sound of it they were getting ready to renegotiate a new term. Nani's got a lot of results in the last few months, so it's the perfect timing for him. Sounds like a money issue to me and approach to business.
Speculation, speculation. So he wasn't happy in the MVP house.
Big whoop.
You cannot use one approach when it comes to managing players. I have no problem with Jason Lake. I've seen his previous interviews and he's been around for quite some time. Good guy, unfortunately this business endeavor didn't work out for the two parties. It is what it is.
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: naniwa said he instigated the move from complexity to quantic, but jason lake (owner of complexity) said on reddit
that We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not.
Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Then why did they pick him up less than a month ago? It doesn't make sense to pick someone up and then sell him right away unless that person didn't want to be there. He hasn't changed in the past month, he is the same person, so they knew what they were getting into.
They most likely picked him up because they were confident that he would behave himself in public and be satisfied with the mvp house. which did not happen.
behave in public?
you kidding?
no, no and no.
They had a difference of opinion and from the sound of it they were getting ready to renegotiate a new term. Nani's got a lot of results in the last few months, so it's the perfect timing for him. Sounds like a money issue to me and approach to business.
Speculation, speculation. So he wasn't happy in the MVP house.
Big whoop.
You cannot use one approach when it comes to managing players. I have no problem with Jason Lake. I've seen his previous interviews and he's been around for quite some time. Good guy, unfortunately this business endeavor didn't work out for the two parties. It is what it is.
Not much else to say.
i don't understand what you tried to say here. difference in opinion in what? do no think complexity did not inform of their plans on korean and standards of behaving in public when they acquired Naniwa? Complexity sold their contract, which means that Naniwa's salary was decided before he entered the team. So there should be no money issues to speak of.
On December 10 2011 09:10 Eee wrote: I think the community makes him look more bm than he actually is, and also some well known people in the community are making him look bad (eg. The retarded jokes on SOTG that has been going on the 4 latest shows). Loved naniwas casting yesterday, such a funny guy :D Thanks for doing a shit ton of esports coverage jbanks :D
Being from Sweden clearly isn't biasing you at all.
Being from the US clearly means you are biased in favour of coL.
That's how ridiculous your "attack" is. Stop being a tool, man.
Personally I wish NaNi the best of luck. Dunno, but coL just seems really bad guy like in this scenario. Why pick up a guy who hasn't changed in the past month? They knew what they were getting into and likely fear bad PR which is why they must go to Reddit and dump posts. I won't buy the "attitude" thing, really. If it was NaNi's fault there'd be something to it, or at least they'd mention something instead of going "HE DID BAD SHIT. BUT I RESPECT HIM, SO I WILL NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE". Sad part is a ton of people fall for it..:/
On December 10 2011 10:46 Hundisilm wrote: I wonder how mr. Lake was planning on selling him to a team where he did not want to go. That is why would a team want to buy a contract of a player who doesn't want to play for them?
I don't think Nani cares what team he's on so long as he can stay in Korea and train, and so long as that team continues to send him to tourneys.
I was referring to the Lake quote where he said (I hope the quote was accurate ) that Naniwa didn't actually have a choice in the matter. It seems a bit like an empty statement to me considering Naniwa was the "product" he was selling and it seems quite clear to me that his worth to a team is very much influenced by how much he wanted to be a part of it. In the end there are not many teams that can support a player in Korea (I can't think of any realistic ones besides Quantic to be honest as FXO is apparently out).
Seems like quite empty huff-puff from Jason at this point. Sure he could've ditched him at a loss but if he says that's what he wanted to do then he would quite clearly been lying. Naniwa's opinion on the matter played quite a big role on where he ended up.
PS. The are theoretical contractual possiblities where this logic would be invalid, but they seem quite unlikely to me at the moment.
I don't get why every time there's a Nani thread, it gets derailed into hatred towards him, and always by Americans/Canadians. Plenty of them turn out to be IdrA fanboys who are actually bashing Nani for being bm (wtf). And then the Swedes who defend him are called nationalistic x_X. P.S. You have fans from outside of Sweden who will also always support you Nani <3. Now go get top8 Code S !!!
Naniwa clearly made a good decision. If living at MvP house was depressing for him, obviously thats not a good environment. No one really has any right to criticize him over it, and very few can say hes overrated when you look at his accomplishments.
On December 10 2011 10:52 blackone wrote: How does this interview clear anything up? If anything it raises more questions because it's contradicting everything col has stated.
because the majority of the people posting here has a blind love for naniwa and trusts everything he says.
Or is it because Col didn't cite any reason for the transfer( no, those "he does not fit into our core value and future goal" kind of crap are not REAL reasons), while at the same time continuously hinting negativity on Naniwa?
Whether you believe him or not, Naniwa came out and stated all the reasons behind the transfer, and he did not shit on complexity.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
You do know he beat Neastea and MVP the day before the actual MLG right? And he didnt really get "stomped" by Leenock (The second place gsl winner ::)
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Sadly, as we all have seen for a long time, one doesn't exclude the other.
I wish Nani all the best! Way better to practise with a team that feels right.
I don't buy this value talk from col one bit, when jason talks to slasher how awful he felt about what happend at MLG and then end the interview with pulling his kids (not a day older than 10) on stream to scream Fuck Slasher. Double standards at best, a bunch of bull shit most probably.
They didn't agree on practise vs streaming and what a player should do within col to get rewarded. Claiming that Naniwa was sold without him wanting it must make it the biggest lucky break in history, Nani gets to go to a team that will let him practise with his friend Sase and a korean team that he fits with.
Hopefully Naniwa and col will do their own things and keep on going strong 2012.
Thanks JBanks, or should I say: JBaller? Aside from all the other cool stuff you've done. I really appreciate giving Naniwa the opportunity to represent himself well. Think it will help a lot going forward, to tone down a big chunk of irrational comments and give more voice to those that support him.
He plays brilliant Starcraft, you can just see he's something special. Such crisp and clean execution, he plays like a robot I think that is also what he aims for with practice. Not taking a win but denying a loss. Incredibly systematic and rigorous planning where even the execution and some risks involved are very clearly accounted for.
How people get divided say on these forums usually comes because something sets them up for it. They get a piece of information and that sets the wheels in motion. In time a new moment will come. Often comments are empty and instigative only serving to get a reaction. I'll try not the read the trash. Its only future is waiting to get incinerated. I'll wait till it comes back recycled and has become something I don't want to throw away. Whichever phase of the cycle you pick, at any time there will always be that ever growing pile of garbage. Don't try to clean it, let it burn.
No such thing as bad publicity? EG anyone? Surely works for them. You can try to put a leash on a player, but they will do what they want.
Many players don't share the same philosophy when it comes to etiquette. Manner or not. What I've seen from Nani in the last 4 months is no different than any other shit you would label 'BM' and even then I think many of you overdo it when it comes to such trivial shit as that.
Jason and Johan had a difference of opinion. Nothing more; nothing less.
Well aware of the transfers. The original contract is anyone's guess. For all we know it could be expiring soon. Anyway, considering Naniwa has been getting some good results lately he probably figures its time to renegotiate for more money. You do a good job at work, likewise you ask your boss for a raise! Besides that, he wanted a better work environment. Can I get a new office?
At the end of the day, it comes down to Jason's philosophy and business practice. Johan disagrees. Jason finds him hard to work with so he gets rid of the current contract.
So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
From the statements I have read, Naniwa's story seems to be more honest than Col. I and other people tend to be getting the idea that Col slightly slanders players that don't work out for them.
It just feels more likely that a signed player on a contract would have a clause in there staying that his contract is valid for a certain amount of time unless he breaks certain rules.
Naniwa stating that he likes ST house practice better than MVP, that he is upset that Col isn't sending any Col players over and he feels secluded (Col retorts by saying they are sending Trimaster at some point - kinda weak as we have no confirmation or date on that) does not in my head constitute Naniwa breaking a contract. This is all guesswork peoples.
If he didn't break rules/clauses I really have a hard time believing that Complexity had complete control in removing Naniwa like they state. It's far more believable that Naniwa stated he wants a "bonus" for some of his recent achievements and a different practice environment and that Col could/would not produce. Ere-go it lead to a little disarray between the Team/Player. Naniwa then speaks out, talks with Quantic (like he says in UCG interview) Col decides its best to move in this direction and a deal was struck. But come on, Naniwa has no say in the decision sounds fishy doesn't it?
I guess we will have to wait and here more retorts.
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Well this does sell better. Team's money doesn't come from nowhere and I actually understand coL for this, despite being a Nani fan
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
On December 10 2011 11:24 thedaks16 wrote: From the statements I have read, Naniwa's story seems to be more honest than Col. I and other people tend to be getting the idea that Col slightly slanders players that don't work out for them.
It just feels more likely that a signed player on a contract would have a clause in there staying that his contract is valid for a certain amount of time unless he breaks certain rules.
Naniwa stating that he likes ST house practice better than MVP, that he is upset that Col isn't sending any Col players over and he feels secluded (Col retorts by saying they are sending Trimaster at some point - kinda weak as we have no confirmation or date on that) does not in my head constitute Naniwa breaking a contract. This is all guesswork peoples.
If he didn't break rules/clauses I really have a hard time believing that Complexity had complete control in removing Naniwa like they state. It's far more believable that Naniwa stated he wants a "bonus" for some of his recent achievements and a different practice environment and that Col could/would not produce. Ere-go it lead to a little disarray between the Team/Player. Naniwa then speaks out, talks with Quantic (like he says in UCG interview) Col decides its best to move in this direction and a deal was struck. But come on, Naniwa has no say in the decision sounds fishy doesn't it?
I guess we will have to wait and here more retorts.
-Thedaks16-
How is that fishy? Players get traded all the time in sports leagues without their own permission.
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
one of the biggest reasons should be SaSe, they're like blood brothers so it's much better if Nani joins up someone who his close with..
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Sadly, as we all have seen for a long time, one doesn't exclude the other.
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
a team needs both type of players. nanis main reason to switch is probably to be in startale house and be with his bro sase. worked out for both teams. why so much hate
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
I watched the video and can only applaud Nani for deciding to make the move. Living in circumstances that make you uneasy effects your entire life, and would have affected his play sooner or later, as well as being unhappy. As Artosis says "Life is all about being happy" so good for Naniwa.
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
How more often will you repeat that bullshit? Naniwa did not say something like "i don't want to have a big streamer in my team" but he was talking about the team appreciating their players by skill, not by viewer numbers and he stated that this was not the case with col. Your reasoning is impeccable ... not naniwas.
The more i read about Nani the more i realize that he doesn't deserve the rep he is given. I wan't to take back the things i have stated about him on previous threads, he wants to get better and is frustrated with the current system, i like it. best of luck nani kick some ass as 1 of the new dragons
I find is fishy based on my hypothesis that Naniwa didn't really break his contract. If he didn't break it then a team stating it was 100% their decision whether or not the player was OK with it sounds wrong. I wrote that based on the back and forth comments from Team & the player. One says it was their decision and Naniwa says he kind of started this move. I tend to believe Naniwa's comments more.
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
You obviously didnt pay attention to anything in this thread. His contract was sold to Quantic gaming, and he had no choice in the matter at all...so what reasoning are you talking about? He went to Quantic because thats who Jason Lake sold him to....
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
You obviously didnt pay attention to anything in this thread. His contract was sold to Quantic gaming, and he had no choice in the matter at all...so what reasoning are you talking about? He went to Quantic because thats who Jason Lake sold him to....
Says one side. The other side says the exact opposite. If you just believe one side...
On December 10 2011 11:24 thedaks16 wrote: From the statements I have read, Naniwa's story seems to be more honest than Col. I and other people tend to be getting the idea that Col slightly slanders players that don't work out for them.
It just feels more likely that a signed player on a contract would have a clause in there staying that his contract is valid for a certain amount of time unless he breaks certain rules.
Naniwa stating that he likes ST house practice better than MVP, that he is upset that Col isn't sending any Col players over and he feels secluded (Col retorts by saying they are sending Trimaster at some point - kinda weak as we have no confirmation or date on that) does not in my head constitute Naniwa breaking a contract. This is all guesswork peoples.
If he didn't break rules/clauses I really have a hard time believing that Complexity had complete control in removing Naniwa like they state. It's far more believable that Naniwa stated he wants a "bonus" for some of his recent achievements and a different practice environment and that Col could/would not produce. Ere-go it lead to a little disarray between the Team/Player. Naniwa then speaks out, talks with Quantic (like he says in UCG interview) Col decides its best to move in this direction and a deal was struck. But come on, Naniwa has no say in the decision sounds fishy doesn't it?
I guess we will have to wait and here more retorts.
-Thedaks16-
are you kidding me? given nanwia's atrocious history in the professional scene of being difficult to tournament organizers, his bm and immaturity rooting back to the wc3 days, the mess he created in ESL, his disqualification from IEM, you find his story more "honest" than Col? he's already been through 6 teams since the beta and I don't anticipate he'll be on quantic for long. when you run into a problem, it's wise to take a step back and try analyze it objectively to see who's at fault. but when you seem to have problems with everyone, it's probably you. more recently the IM coach even used a shit ton of expletives on naniwa. either the IM coach is crazy or there really is something up with him that he needs to reflect on.
On December 10 2011 10:42 emecee wrote: Someone is not telling the truth and i'm gonna trust the owner of complexity rather than someone who has the reputation of being a douche bag.
Sadly, as we all have seen for a long time, one doesn't exclude the other.
You don't need to bring here his PR work to let us know who he is in reality and how he deals with players. And talking about being the coolest dad in the world, does it implies exposing his own children on a webtv show and asking them to drop insults? Talk about "core values"...
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
Love the interview, Naniwa's answers were more fully formed and reasonable than ever before. It's nice to get his thoughts when he's not in full tournament terminator mode. Couldn't care less if Nani's interview or coL's antagonistic reddit comment was the truth, as long as he's happier in the ST house.
On December 10 2011 09:01 JBanKs wrote: The first interview since NaNiwa has moved to quantic, explaining what happened, why it happened and his plans for the future.
NaNiwa is staying in the StarTale house and arrived today, he sat down with us to discuss all that has been going on and put his side of the story across, what do you guys think?
From the interview "It something about money of course but basically I lived at startale before i lived at mvp and I just liked it way way better, no offence to mvp guys obviously, they are nice people but I liked it a lot more here[StarTale]"
"It is the same for them if CatZ hits 5k viewers on his stream or that I place 2nd at an MLG and I did not agree with that point of view"
You can also check out other great StarTale content at our youtube, website and see the teamliquid thread about INSIDE THE STARTALE HOUSE here.
*My personal feeling, not that of my websites or sponsors is that NaNiwa is a really nice guy deep down, such a dedicated and devoted player, he is a champion that is for sure and he has his own goal, he does not deserve 90% of the trash he has thrown at him, I wish him all the best in the future*
about the bolded part, I really think this stems from the fact that the sponsors are the ones who pay the bills in the end in the SC2 scene. This means that for a team it may be as important to show its sponsors they have a guy who gets 5k views a day than to show them they have a guy who places high in a tournament every few months, but has sort of a bad reputation.
On December 10 2011 11:24 thedaks16 wrote: From the statements I have read, Naniwa's story seems to be more honest than Col. I and other people tend to be getting the idea that Col slightly slanders players that don't work out for them.
It just feels more likely that a signed player on a contract would have a clause in there staying that his contract is valid for a certain amount of time unless he breaks certain rules.
Naniwa stating that he likes ST house practice better than MVP, that he is upset that Col isn't sending any Col players over and he feels secluded (Col retorts by saying they are sending Trimaster at some point - kinda weak as we have no confirmation or date on that) does not in my head constitute Naniwa breaking a contract. This is all guesswork peoples.
If he didn't break rules/clauses I really have a hard time believing that Complexity had complete control in removing Naniwa like they state. It's far more believable that Naniwa stated he wants a "bonus" for some of his recent achievements and a different practice environment and that Col could/would not produce. Ere-go it lead to a little disarray between the Team/Player. Naniwa then speaks out, talks with Quantic (like he says in UCG interview) Col decides its best to move in this direction and a deal was struck. But come on, Naniwa has no say in the decision sounds fishy doesn't it?
I guess we will have to wait and here more retorts.
-Thedaks16-
are you kidding me? given nanwia's atrocious history in the professional scene of being difficult to tournament organizers, his bm and immaturity rooting back to the wc3 days, the mess he created in ESL, his disqualification from IEM, you find his story more "honest" than Col? he's already been through 6 teams since the beta and I don't anticipate he'll be on quantic for long. when you run into a problem, it's wise to take a step back and try analyze it objectively to see who's at fault. but when you seem to have problems with everyone, it's probably you. more recently the IM coach even used a shit ton of expletives on naniwa. either the IM coach is crazy or there really is something up with him that he needs to reflect on.
On December 10 2011 11:24 thedaks16 wrote: From the statements I have read, Naniwa's story seems to be more honest than Col. I and other people tend to be getting the idea that Col slightly slanders players that don't work out for them.
It just feels more likely that a signed player on a contract would have a clause in there staying that his contract is valid for a certain amount of time unless he breaks certain rules.
Naniwa stating that he likes ST house practice better than MVP, that he is upset that Col isn't sending any Col players over and he feels secluded (Col retorts by saying they are sending Trimaster at some point - kinda weak as we have no confirmation or date on that) does not in my head constitute Naniwa breaking a contract. This is all guesswork peoples.
If he didn't break rules/clauses I really have a hard time believing that Complexity had complete control in removing Naniwa like they state. It's far more believable that Naniwa stated he wants a "bonus" for some of his recent achievements and a different practice environment and that Col could/would not produce. Ere-go it lead to a little disarray between the Team/Player. Naniwa then speaks out, talks with Quantic (like he says in UCG interview) Col decides its best to move in this direction and a deal was struck. But come on, Naniwa has no say in the decision sounds fishy doesn't it?
I guess we will have to wait and here more retorts.
-Thedaks16-
are you kidding me? given nanwia's atrocious history in the professional scene of being difficult to tournament organizers, his bm and immaturity rooting back to the wc3 days, the mess he created in ESL, his disqualification from IEM, you find his story more "honest" than Col? he's already been through 6 teams since the beta and I don't anticipate he'll be on quantic for long. when you run into a problem, it's wise to take a step back and try analyze it objectively to see who's at fault. but when you seem to have problems with everyone, it's probably you. more recently the IM coach even used a shit ton of expletives on naniwa. either the IM coach is crazy or there really is something up with him that he needs to reflect on.
Hmm? When did this happen?
Not expletives. Guy is exaggerating. IM coach just criticized Naniwa on Twitter post-MLG match vs. NesTea and said he'd never met a ruder player.
On December 10 2011 11:33 HappyChris wrote: Complexity and sixjax anyone els seen a similary pattern here?
No. Not even a little bit. Sixjax was a tiny little team that went under because of some management issues. compLexity is one of the top five multigame eSports organizations in the US and Europe. They're legendary and have had huge success in a number of games including CS1.6 and Dota. There's absolutely no comparison between the two, and no comparison between coL and any other team short of EG, mouz, SK or fnatic.
It is nice to see a thought out interview with Naniwa instead of his one line answers as of late. I see no reason to assume there was something bad going on, and because he is where he wants to be and with the people he wants to be with I think he will stay and do even better than he has been.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
On December 10 2011 11:20 Lavi wrote: So complexity considers a pro streamer at the same level as 2nd place at providence - the biggest non gsl tournament of the year... that seems so backwards...
Naniwa wants to be a team where players are valued for accomplishments and not publicity, which is why he went to Quantic, the team that added Destiny as their first player! Nice one Naniwa! impeccable reasoning.
You obviously didnt pay attention to anything in this thread. His contract was sold to Quantic gaming, and he had no choice in the matter at all...so what reasoning are you talking about? He went to Quantic because thats who Jason Lake sold him to....
His contract may have been sold regardless of what he thought, but that would be dumb business. There's no way quantic would have ever purchased his contract without him being willing to play for that team. Thats just talk by complexity to seem like big shots. It makes 0 business sense at all.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
The play he showed at MLG was top level play. I don't think that people can play really well by a fluke, so he showed he is capable of that kinda play. I think hero is better than Naniwa, but I don't think any other Protoss have shown the same level of play as those 2.
disgusting to see how progaming teams are valuing stream views over MLG placements.. although it doesn't surprise me that it's coming from jason lakes team, hopefully other teams aren't favoring that over results.
great interview, naniwa is such an enigma- makes him that much more exciting to watch.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
The play he showed at MLG was top level play. I don't think that people can play really well by a fluke, so he showed he is capable of that kinda play. I think hero is better than Naniwa, but I don't think any other Protoss have shown the same level of play as those 2.
I don't really agree with that and even if I did, it hasn't been nearly consistent enough or for a long period of time to call him OR Hero the best. They both have continued to fail in GSL.
On December 10 2011 12:43 spacek wrote: disgusting to see how progaming teams are valuing stream views over MLG placements.. although it doesn't surprise me that it's coming from jason lakes team, hopefully other teams aren't favoring that over results.
great interview, naniwa is such an enigma- makes him that much more exciting to watch.
You have to look at it from a practical standpoint. Teams are supported by sponsorships, so making extra sponsor money is a really good thing. Streaming is great for that.
There's also probably an element of hyperbole there. I don't think it's wise at all to take NaNiwa's word that coL valued him and Catz equivalently, because it's ridiculous. That may have been NaNiwa's perception, but I struggle to believe that that was the reality.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
The play he showed at MLG was top level play. I don't think that people can play really well by a fluke, so he showed he is capable of that kinda play. I think hero is better than Naniwa, but I don't think any other Protoss have shown the same level of play as those 2.
I don't really agree with that and even if I did, it hasn't been nearly consistent enough or for a long period of time to call him OR Hero the best. They both have continued to fail in GSL.
Just because Hero stomped a few foreigners and done nothing against koreans, people are overrating him so much. Naniwa only had 4 good series in his weekend. He beat nestea twice MVP, Huk and DRG. Impressive opponents but i reserve my opinion on whether Naniwa is truely top class when he has done something in the GSL.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
The play he showed at MLG was top level play. I don't think that people can play really well by a fluke, so he showed he is capable of that kinda play. I think hero is better than Naniwa, but I don't think any other Protoss have shown the same level of play as those 2.
I don't really agree with that and even if I did, it hasn't been nearly consistent enough or for a long period of time to call him OR Hero the best. They both have continued to fail in GSL.
Just because Hero stomped a few foreigners and done nothing against koreans, people are overrating him so much. Naniwa only had 4 good series in his weekend. He beat nestea twice MVP, Huk and DRG. Impressive opponents but i reserve my opinion on whether Naniwa is truely top class when he has done something in the GSL.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
The play he showed at MLG was top level play. I don't think that people can play really well by a fluke, so he showed he is capable of that kinda play. I think hero is better than Naniwa, but I don't think any other Protoss have shown the same level of play as those 2.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
Beats MVP once and Nestea twice, and you think he's not even close to being the best protoss?
If you are talking about the best protosses in the world, naniwa is definitely one of them. If he's first second or third I don't know.
Also, it's really confusing that Naniwa says he wanted to move meanwhile complexity is trying to say it as if they kicked him out.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
Beats MVP once and Nestea twice, and you think he's not even close to being the best protoss?
If you are talking about the best protosses in the world, naniwa is definitely one of them. If he's first second or third I don't know.
Also, it's really confusing that Naniwa says he wanted to move meanwhile complexity is trying to say it as if they kicked him out.
Naniwa is good, there's no question about that. It's to early to call him the best or even one of the best though. Yes, he has done really well in foreign tounaments and yes, he has what it takes to take out the best players (taking out MVP and Nestea twice), but the question is: can he perform that well consistently?Right now he doesn't considering his GSL history. Only time will tell.
On topic: I've never been a huge fan of col actually and I didn't think Naniwa would fit into the team from the beginning. GL to Naniwa in QxG. I hope the new training environment in the ST house helps him to improve even more, I always love watching Naniwa play.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
Beats MVP once and Nestea twice, and you think he's not even close to being the best protoss?
If you are talking about the best protosses in the world, naniwa is definitely one of them. If he's first second or third I don't know.
Also, it's really confusing that Naniwa says he wanted to move meanwhile complexity is trying to say it as if they kicked him out.
I think what Complexity is saying is that they would have moved Naniwa regardless of whether or not he wanted to be moved.
On December 10 2011 09:05 careohx wrote: Naniwa is definitely one of my favorite players. He has the attitude of a champion. I dont care whether he is socially akward or not, he has the drive to be the best and thats all that matters to me.
Agree comletely. I love his attitude, he seems to takes full responsibility for everything.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Hang on, didn't huk end hero's providence run on day 2?
And the MLG before that was the MC vs HUK finals.
WTF you trippin' on? At day 3 of MLG Providence you would be hard pressed to name someone with better PVP credentials.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
I don't care what team Nani is on, he still remains one of the best foreigners.. People need to get over themselves. Getting teamed up with a good friend & good player like Sase will do them both good
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
You're from sweden. Nuff said.
What an utterly stupid post. He was simply listing Nani's achievements (i think he won dallas not anaheim) - what the hell has being Swedish got to do with Nani's top place finishes?
After watching the drama with coL HoN team and now this drama with nani it seems that coL care more about their business model than their players. Either way - best of luck Nani; training in Korea obviously has a huge positive effect on your skill level so i look forward to watching you in more tournaments.
I always felt like he didn't fit in Complexity. The team didn't feel right for him as he was thier only player in korea and i feel that the rest of the players didn't have the same drive as him to become a top player.
I was a bit suspicious in the last thread and said that they must have kicked him out so i have to take that back.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
The post he was replying to said he wasn't one of the best because he wasn't consistent enough so he listed all his big achievments over a longer period of time?
Anyways, feels like there's more to tell on both sides although Nani feels like the one who is the most open and has the most truth in what he says.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
You're from sweden. Nuff said.
What an utterly stupid post. He was simply listing Nani's achievements (i think he won dallas not anaheim) - what the hell has being Swedish got to do with Nani's top place finishes?
After watching the drama with coL HoN team and now this drama with nani it seems that coL care more about their business model than their players. Either way - best of luck Nani; training in Korea obviously has a huge positive effect on your skill level so i look forward to watching you in more tournaments.
This is sooooo much true, it's not even funny. The whole HoN fiasco was a pure display of ignorance on coL's part. Team leader's statements being censored by S2 forums (as usual), and coL leadership being completely oblivious to the inner workings of of tournament organization. In panic dumping their own team for the sake of short-term PR just to look silly in the course of statements of every side involved. I don't give a damn about how much coL is allegedly experienced in the field of esports in general (notice: I am very well aware of their engagement, especially in CS), but as an ARTS - not MOBA - enthusiast I have been quite shocked by their sheer amateurism displayed.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
The post he was replying to said he wasn't one of the best because he wasn't consistent enough so he listed all his big achievments over a longer period of time?
Anyways, feels like there's more to tell on both sides although Nani feels like the one who is the most open and has the most truth in what he says.
Best luck for him in QxG.
But he isn't. If i just listed off all Huk's achievements and said he was consistent because he had alot of high placings it doesn't mean it's true. Naniwa lost in the first round of Code A THREE times in a row, then he had one good weekend and beat alot of extremely good players, and next event, which was Dreamhack he had a fairly early exit as well losing to a player he beat at Providence. Where is the consistency?
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
You're from sweden. Nuff said.
Because he's from sweden, these results suddenly don't count?
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
The post he was replying to said he wasn't one of the best because he wasn't consistent enough so he listed all his big achievments over a longer period of time?
Anyways, feels like there's more to tell on both sides although Nani feels like the one who is the most open and has the most truth in what he says.
Best luck for him in QxG.
But he isn't. If i just listed off all Huk's achievements and said he was consistent because he had alot of high placings it doesn't mean it's true. Naniwa lost in the first round of Code A THREE times in a row, then he had one good weekend and beat alot of extremely good players, and next event, which was Dreamhack he had a fairly early exit as well losing to a player he beat at Providence. Where is the consistency?
And where is huk's consistency? What about huk at DH winter? or NASL? or WCG?
I'm not saying Huk is bad, just saying that you can make a bad tournament without being non-consistent.
And what do you mean about MC? MC has also been in a slump, DEFINITLY NOT consistent.
Seriously your tunnelvision is stunning!
Edit: And obviously you didn't see his Code A games. Naniwa played well for the most part...
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
The post he was replying to said he wasn't one of the best because he wasn't consistent enough so he listed all his big achievments over a longer period of time?
Anyways, feels like there's more to tell on both sides although Nani feels like the one who is the most open and has the most truth in what he says.
Best luck for him in QxG.
But he isn't. If i just listed off all Huk's achievements and said he was consistent because he had alot of high placings it doesn't mean it's true. Naniwa lost in the first round of Code A THREE times in a row, then he had one good weekend and beat alot of extremely good players, and next event, which was Dreamhack he had a fairly early exit as well losing to a player he beat at Providence. Where is the consistency?
Two of those were to FXOLucky, which is consistent losing in itself. But also Luck is actually a pretty sick gosu, and I consider him a Code S caliber player. I don't think Naniwa is the best Protoss or anything, but Lucky is no scrub.
I want Nani to find a team he's happy with and continue being himself, whatever that means.
I have recently been concerned with the contradiction between performance and everything else (streaming, PR, casting, other crap players do which doesn't help them become better players). The 5k viewers comment seems to be consistent with my thoughts on this.
I want players who win. If they're manner too, great. But i want the standard of play to get higher. This extra curricular garbage is not raising the bar. It might even be lowering it.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
You're from sweden. Nuff said.
User was warned for this post
and what would you call HuK? Just curious. I'm from the same country too. -.-;;
Double standards. No one can take nani's achievements away from him. He is one of the top foreigners and has been for sometime.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
The post he was replying to said he wasn't one of the best because he wasn't consistent enough so he listed all his big achievments over a longer period of time?
Anyways, feels like there's more to tell on both sides although Nani feels like the one who is the most open and has the most truth in what he says.
Best luck for him in QxG.
But he isn't. If i just listed off all Huk's achievements and said he was consistent because he had alot of high placings it doesn't mean it's true. Naniwa lost in the first round of Code A THREE times in a row, then he had one good weekend and beat alot of extremely good players, and next event, which was Dreamhack he had a fairly early exit as well losing to a player he beat at Providence. Where is the consistency?
And where is huk's consistency? What about huk at DH winter? or NASL? or WCG?
I'm not saying Huk is bad, just saying that you can make a bad tournament without being non-consistent.
And what do you mean about MC? MC has also been in a slump, DEFINITLY NOT consistent.
Seriously your tunnelvision is stunning!
Edit: And obviously you didn't see his Code A games. Naniwa played well for the most part...
I actually said in my post that Huk in inconsistent so I don't know how telling me that is refuting my point, and I never said MC was consistent either. So...yeah.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
You realise that Naniwa was the first guy to make that run ever right? I think beating Nestea, Huk, Mvp and DRG in one weekend proves youre good enough for a second place. I realise youre a hater but there is no foreignner but MAYBE Huk that has shown the same type of consistent results.
On December 10 2011 09:42 Dexington wrote: Finally some non-Swedish people that can agree on some of my points.
I'm done arguing with nationalists.
PS, I'm not a Huk fan, just using him as an example.
Dude. Its hard to know if youre serious or not. You argue like a 5yo.
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
What are you saying? That achievement list certainly doesn't qualify him for best Protoss...which is what we were refuting. MC's achievements make those look pathetic by comparison.
The post he was replying to said he wasn't one of the best because he wasn't consistent enough so he listed all his big achievments over a longer period of time?
Anyways, feels like there's more to tell on both sides although Nani feels like the one who is the most open and has the most truth in what he says.
Best luck for him in QxG.
But he isn't. If i just listed off all Huk's achievements and said he was consistent because he had alot of high placings it doesn't mean it's true. Naniwa lost in the first round of Code A THREE times in a row, then he had one good weekend and beat alot of extremely good players, and next event, which was Dreamhack he had a fairly early exit as well losing to a player he beat at Providence. Where is the consistency?
And where is huk's consistency? What about huk at DH winter? or NASL? or WCG?
I'm not saying Huk is bad, just saying that you can make a bad tournament without being non-consistent.
And what do you mean about MC? MC has also been in a slump, DEFINITLY NOT consistent.
Seriously your tunnelvision is stunning!
Edit: And obviously you didn't see his Code A games. Naniwa played well for the most part...
I actually said in my post that Huk in inconsistent so I don't know how telling me that is refuting my point, and I never said MC was consistent either. So...yeah.
Yeah you didn't say that MC were consistent, however u say that nobody is consistent, because they don't finish 1st every tournament. By your standards, there is nobody consistent. Not MVP, not NesTea, not MMA. Nobody
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
You realise that Naniwa was the first guy to make that run ever right? I think beating Nestea, Huk, Mvp and DRG in one weekend proves youre good enough for a second place. I realise youre a hater but there is no foreignner but MAYBE Huk that has shown the same type of consistent results.
On December 10 2011 09:18 HappyChris wrote: Great interview I actually agree with Naniwa the scene is very much a popularity contest. Instead it should be a competition of skills.
I see it alot from the US team they seem to be very good at PR and are really good at hyping there players. Take EG as an example
EG with Huk/Puma/Idra as superstar champions?
I'd rather take TL with their whole rooster,besides Hero i guess, lagging behind right now, but we all LOVE them because of how awesome they are, each in their own way.
Correct decision Naniwa don't buy into these hype teams like coL who just want exposure in blogs and whatnot that you shouldn't be focusing on.. You're here to play, win and become the best and not being a commnity junkie <3 Naniwaaar your play speaks for itself that's all that should matter.
On December 10 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote: Alright, no point trying to argue. We will see how he does in his next tournament. Hopefully better than he did at Dreamhack.
Edit: And no, Huk isn't over rated, he travels so much that he gets out of practice. That's why he loses games.
You just lost all credibility in your opinion with that last statement. Blind fanboyism at its finest.
Still really confused on this situation. Both parties are saying that it was purely their decision and that they could have done whatever they liked. Quite annoying really. >_<
Don't really care who initiated the move or if Complexity feel it important to boost there ego by telling everyone they kicked him out. Nani is a great player and will continue to win games, and he seems to be really happy being part of Quantic (or rather to be at StarTale's..). This frees up money for Complexity to aquire a new streamer. Everyone is happy. GL to everyone!
On December 10 2011 16:58 ShotgunMike wrote: Don't really care who initiated the move or if Complexity feel it important to boost there ego by telling everyone they kicked him out. Nani is a great player and will continue to win games, and he seems to be really happy being part of Quantic (or rather to be at StarTale's..). This frees up money for Complexity to aquire a new streamer. Everyone is happy. GL to everyone!
On December 10 2011 16:50 Hall0wed wrote: Great interview.
Still really confused on this situation. Both parties are saying that it was purely their decision and that they could have done whatever they liked. Quite annoying really. >_<
To me it sounds like Naniwa wasn't happy and was possibly arguing with Col management about money or other terms (more foreign players to Korea and so on). Col eventually got fed up with him and basically gave him what he wanted. That's just what I am reading between the lines though.
Wierd that he say he liked StarTale alot more than MvP house, didn't he say that StarTale house was kinda bad because they practiced when they wanted instead of hardcore practice on strict times which is what Naniwa wanted when he first came to Korea? :O
But I guess it's better to stay at Startale than in the GOM house. ^^
On December 10 2011 11:59 PopcornColonel wrote: Naniwa really does have a great drive. It's all about the game for him. He wants to the be the best, and he wants to make that apparent.
In my opinion, he's actually pretty close to being the best protoss in the world.
Obviously its hard to prove that he definitely is... but yeah, I do think he is the best protoss in the world! But of course Im a biased Naniwa fan :D! Fighting.. !
No he's not even close. He had 1 good weekend after failing miserably 0-2 three times in a row in the first round of Code A, but I know people here have selective memories. Perhaps if he does well in the Blizzard Cup and finally wins a game in GSL you will actually have some basis for that belief.
I totally agree, Naniwa has to demonstrate a level of consistency before he can be christened as one of the best.
Naniwa is a great player, but SC2 is a volatile game that is hard to dominate.
Who would have guessed that Huk would get bounced from NASL in the round of 16, for instance?
1st MLG Anaheim 1st MLG Global invitational 1st MLG european invitational 2nd MLG Providence (finals) 2nd TSL3 2nd Blizzcon european finals 4th Blizzcon finals
Nuff said.
You're from sweden. Nuff said.
User was warned for this post
Naniwa continues to crush HuK every time they played lately together with Nestea and MVP You're right, sc2 is volatile. Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement. Not to take anything away from HuK or anything, but Naniwa IS better than HuK. HuK used to be good aswell but I feel that ever since he moved to EG, it's gone downhill. I mean, look who's code S Naniwa or HuK? Yeah. And it's funny you talk about bias when you infact are Canadian :D lol. Pathetic.
Good interview. And yes, I will support Nani regardless of what team he is on. I think that him and SaSe will not be parting ways for a long time now though, they seem really happy about living together.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you serious? Beating Nestea, controversial or not, Huk and DRG is not impressive? Christ. I'd like to see your foreign dream team.
He also lost to Cloud and DRG at Dreamhack. And almost lost to Ciara I believe. He barely even made it out of his group.
I honestly predict he will get last in his GSL group, especially considering it'll be Bo3's, drop to Code A, then be eliminated the following season.
Let's remember he has yet to win a game in the GSL and has been utterly outclassed in those games against Lucky.
and haveu seen HuK in comparison after winning Dreamhack the HSC he did a few early exits, hell him and Idra both have lost earlyrounds in tournaments after big wins.... im guessing with you its fine for them though but not ok for Nani.
jesus when the is a lot of travelling involved people CANT be consistent. Hell when MC went on the slump it was because he was flying around the world....
Calling Nani overated etc becaus ehe ebat nestea twice, MVP and DRG and HuK isnt bad at all... if he beat Leenock in the final too what would u be sayign then the same oh and Leenock was a nobody..... sorry dont give peopleshit when they beat two of the best players in the world and alsoone of them twice in the same weekend!!!
anyway back on track... always like Nani, himand HuK are so similar in one way that they both WANT to win and they have the drive to make it happen, hate nanai all you want he is here for the long stay!!! Cannot wait for him to break into Code S which he will do!!!
I can't help feeling like there's more to the story here. It's difficult to believe that such a large disparity in philosophies(results vs exposure) didn't come up when CoL and Naniwa originally negotiated their contract.
Ty Naniwa for clearing that up. And in the end you should do what is best for yourself. If StarTale and Quantic is your pick then go for it. Don't mind us mumbling around
On December 10 2011 17:04 Termit wrote: Wierd that he say he liked StarTale alot more than MvP house, didn't he say that StarTale house was kinda bad because they practiced when they wanted instead of hardcore practice on strict times which is what Naniwa wanted when he first came to Korea? :O
But I guess it's better to stay at Startale than in the GOM house. ^^
Maybe his first impressions on StarTale house was like that. But then he did spend alot of time in MVP house and could say that he liked it more in StarTale. One does not make other one impossible. Sometimes you change opinion when you learn more about something specific
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
"It is the same for them if CatZ hits 5k viewers on his stream or that I place 2nd at an MLG and I did not agree with that point of view"
If Naniwa is correct on this, then it's just another reason I support his decision to leave Complexity. Good luck finding another foreign superstar, Complexity :S.
Its not a coincidence that players don't wanna stick around with complexity. It's nothing new and if you take a look back in history ( way before starcraft) you could see the exact same pattern
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
On December 10 2011 17:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: "It is the same for them if CatZ hits 5k viewers on his stream or that I place 2nd at an MLG and I did not agree with that point of view"
If Naniwa is correct on this, then it's just another reason I support his decision to leave Complexity. Good luck finding another foreign superstar, Complexity :S.
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
If you can't tell why Leenock all inned 4 times in a row then you're awful
Hint: It sort of might kind of have to do with Naniwa's rigid/failed opening decisions in all 4 games. LOL
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
No wonder the foreign scene suck when teams like complexity encourage streaming and exposure rather than hard working practice and results. Thats why it's funny how many good korean players are starting to stream som ladder games and stealing all the viewers from NA/EU ladder heroes haha.
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
If you can't tell why Leenock all inned 4 times in a row then you're awful
Hint: It sort of might kind of have to do with Naniwa's rigid/failed opening decisions in all 4 games. LOL
You can hold off roach rush with ffe lol he held it off the first game, right? Check naniwas interview post event. He explained that it wasnt his opening, he just played badly lol. Don't argue about the gameplay, please xD You're a lowleaguer and you know nothing of sc2 lol.
I really hope naniwa now finds what hes looking for. I was always a big fan. I really think those teams that buy player because of hype/streamviewers will have a bitter end sooner or later.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
You're wrong imo. As long as he keeps winning, there will always be someone who'll want him on their team.
He said, they said...the only thing I know is Jason Lake is a smart manager. I really hope Quantic/ST can get Nani settled. I loved the gameplays, and I'm trying to hold judgment on the constant team transfers, but I sure hope he can find true success both on and off the stage.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
You're wrong imo. As long as he keeps winning, there will always be someone who'll want him on their team.
On December 10 2011 18:11 knL wrote: I really hope naniwa now finds what hes looking for. I was always a big fan. I really think those teams that buy player because of hype/streamviewers will have a bitter end sooner or later.
why? if the players keep getting so many viewers then i think it's very valuable for the teams... for example look at how much hotshotGG (LoL player) earns with streaming: http://www.mysig.de/images/userpics/hsgg.jpg
and if he would also advertise for his team, i think that's very valuable for the team. however i doubt any sc2 player can earn as much as hotshotGG with streaming as of right now, hotshotGG has over 10k viewers most of the time. still you can see how much money you CAN earn with streaming and how much adds are worth.
for us fans, of course, it does not matter at all and i think all of us see it as a better achievement to place 2nd at MLG than to have 5k viewers.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
I bet they'd trade Axslav for him though...
Is Axlav a popular figure? Is he charismatic? Has he lots of fans? Than why bring it up?
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
Their talent in the game should always be put ahead of their popularity or charisma in my opinion. This is supposed to be an e-sport not a popularity contest. Being really good at starcraft 2 should be enough. I think a stacked team winning tournament after tournament would be better publicity and make more money than a charismatic player that doesn't do well would. But this move from coL does surprise me though, you'd think Naniwa would have brought more publicity to coL than any other player has, specially since last MLG. His personality definetly is marketable and he was also their best player. Maybe something we don't know about happened because coL should have known exactly what they would get in Naniwa, he didn't change his ways he just continued being Naniwa so they got what they bargained for.
Hrm. Is starcraft 2 sport or entertainment? Those who view it as entertainment look deep into the lives of those involved, much like people do in the entertainment industry itself. Those who view it at sport care not so much about these things, these interviews. We didn't think Naniwa to be a bad guy or a good guy. We actually don't think much about him except when he performs well we applaud it (as we applaud all success).
To have a personal opinion on actors and actresses instead of judging them on their own merit (acting ability, etc) is to be, in my opinion, a stupid person. Same thing goes with these players. To have a personal opinion of these players that is seperate and aside from their ability to play the game really shows who you are and what you're about.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
As long as Nani is happy then so am I! I love his attitude, he's really hardworking and ambitious, and deserves a good training environment so I hope he gets it in StarTale. Personally I find him very funny as well, loved watching his stream a few weeks ago, was laughing quite a lot.
Of course there are two sides to every storie, but I do appreciate that he tells his side of the story. If it's true coL is you know kinda stupid, I mean from there point of view it probably means the same, but a player doing that well in a tournament so stacked with awesome players would mean more to me than any amount of people watching a stream.
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
If you can't tell why Leenock all inned 4 times in a row then you're awful
Hint: It sort of might kind of have to do with Naniwa's rigid/failed opening decisions in all 4 games. LOL
You can hold off roach rush with ffe lol he held it off the first game, right? Check naniwas interview post event. He explained that it wasnt his opening, he just played badly lol. Don't argue about the gameplay, please xD You're a lowleaguer and you know nothing of sc2 lol.
Naniwa held it off in that one game because Leenock messed up and showed his roaches to his zealot, which allowed Naniwa time to get up more cannons. In the other games he didn't scout the roaches and wasn't able to hold it with a single cannon. Roach rush is a known hard counter to FFE with one cannon, as is three quick hatch. Seeing how Nestea, one of the best zerg macro players in the world, lost going for 3 quick hatch against Naniwa's 2 base timing after his FFE, it's no surprise Leenock decided to roach rush to punish it.
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
If you can't tell why Leenock all inned 4 times in a row then you're awful
Hint: It sort of might kind of have to do with Naniwa's rigid/failed opening decisions in all 4 games. LOL
You can hold off roach rush with ffe lol he held it off the first game, right? Check naniwas interview post event. He explained that it wasnt his opening, he just played badly lol. Don't argue about the gameplay, please xD You're a lowleaguer and you know nothing of sc2 lol.
.....and you claim you were GM? It's now proven that you're no higher than Diamond. A 1 cannon FFE is by no means safe without a decent scout. He held it off because he scouted it the first game due to Leenock showing the roaches. He did not hold off the other ones due to Leenock playing better and preventing the scout (or interpret this as Naniwa playing worse and not scouting better). Regardless, you just proved your own point wrong -- he played worse than Leenock that day, thus was the worse player. You're a lowleaguer and know nothing of sc2 lol.
On December 10 2011 19:04 jnsjr wrote:
Naniwa held it off in that one game because Leenock messed up and showed his roaches to his zealot, which allowed Naniwa time to get up more cannons. In the other games he didn't scout the roaches and wasn't able to hold it with a single cannon. Roach rush is a known hard counter to FFE with one cannon, as is three quick hatch. Seeing how Nestea, one of the best zerg macro players in the world, lost going for 3 quick hatch against Naniwa's 2 base timing after his FFE, it's no surprise Leenock decided to roach rush to punish it.
Sometimes I can't stand Naniwa's Attitude but at least he's an esports personality and definitely a top player and that's why I'm happy with whatever he thinks is best for his career.
On a side note: seems like he lost a lot of weight. Maybe it's the korean food.
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
Steps to do: 1)Rewatch Series 2)Find definition of an "all-in"
Actually Naniwa is the one that messed up the other games with his scouting. You should send 2 probes before lings are out to deny it. You hide one maybe proxy pylon with it and scout with that one later. If you do not manage to scout what he's doing because he finds your second probe you should put up 2 more cannons. Naniwa's build was fine he just took a huge risk when he failed scouting by not adding cannons.
I never understood the coments on him being bad at interviews, it's just if you ask him a simple question he will give you a simple answer. If you ask me about detailed stuff that requires a more thorough answer then he will give you that.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
fairplay to Nani, he gets a lot of unjustified hate on here but you can't stay with a team who thinks that 5k stream viewers is worth as much as MLG placings
catz is a balla he has 5k viewers bcos he has a good stream, not bcos of col at all? i personally dont like naniwa for no real reason other than i just dont he lacks personality to me, not basing on results just wat i read/see of him he will fail in korea anyway
Im really glad he is putting his improvement as the focal point of his career. He has real drive and will do great things in korea. He also seemed much more relaxed and putting himself out there in the community will only get him more fans. GL NaNi!
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
But Incontrol IS funny, has charisma and has a great personality. You are taking the backlash thing out of proportion, because he has many fans supporting him. It's just that the minority is more vocal.
And why is someone comparing EG with col? AG didn't say that exposure is more important than skill, he said they are looking for skilled players, but they should also be marketable. And in sc2 EG didn't throw/sold a player from the team like col (only grubby and inka left because they wanted to leave. well and maybe Tastless but that's another story).
I personally think this is the best fit for Naniwa. QxG will do w/e they can to make him look and seem like prince charming even if that isnt the case. Then add his results with that and it helps out QxG a shit ton as well! Dudes an amazing player and for every story there will always be good and evil. :D Also. I think they should have a Destiny vs Naniwa wrestling match and youtube it, kid you not 100million views and quite possibly americas funniest home videos 1st place award. PLUS SO MUCH PUBLICITY??? :D
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
But Incontrol IS funny, has charisma and has a great personality. You are taking the backlash thing out of proportion, because he has many fans supporting him. It's just that the minority is more vocal.
And why is someone comparing EG with col? AG didn't say that exposure is more important than skill, he said they are looking for skilled players, but they should also be marketable. And in sc2 EG didn't throw/sold a player from the team like col (only grubby and inka left because they wanted to leave. well and maybe Tastless but that's another story).
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
But Incontrol IS funny, has charisma and has a great personality. You are taking the backlash thing out of proportion, because he has many fans supporting him. It's just that the minority is more vocal.
And why is someone comparing EG with col? AG didn't say that exposure is more important than skill, he said they are looking for skilled players, but they should also be marketable. And in sc2 EG didn't throw/sold a player from the team like col (only grubby and inka left because they wanted to leave. well and maybe Tastless but that's another story).
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
If you can't tell why Leenock all inned 4 times in a row then you're awful
Hint: It sort of might kind of have to do with Naniwa's rigid/failed opening decisions in all 4 games. LOL
You can hold off roach rush with ffe lol he held it off the first game, right? Check naniwas interview post event. He explained that it wasnt his opening, he just played badly lol. Don't argue about the gameplay, please xD You're a lowleaguer and you know nothing of sc2 lol.
.....and you claim you were GM? It's now proven that you're no higher than Diamond. A 1 cannon FFE is by no means safe without a decent scout. He held it off because he scouted it the first game due to Leenock showing the roaches. He did not hold off the other ones due to Leenock playing better and preventing the scout (or interpret this as Naniwa playing worse and not scouting better). Regardless, you just proved your own point wrong -- he played worse than Leenock that day, thus was the worse player. You're a lowleaguer and know nothing of sc2 lol.
Naniwa held it off in that one game because Leenock messed up and showed his roaches to his zealot, which allowed Naniwa time to get up more cannons. In the other games he didn't scout the roaches and wasn't able to hold it with a single cannon. Roach rush is a known hard counter to FFE with one cannon, as is three quick hatch. Seeing how Nestea, one of the best zerg macro players in the world, lost going for 3 quick hatch against Naniwa's 2 base timing after his FFE, it's no surprise Leenock decided to roach rush to punish it.
Precisely.
You're so clueless I won't even bother argumenting with you because you're a lowleaguer and you don't understand pro games, mkay? Maybe in your diamond league that you claim to be (which is still a lowleague), the "forge expand with one cannon no matter what you see" is a build, it isn't here. Naniwa said himself he played poorly. Sheth tried to roach ling all in him in Dreamhack. What happened? he defended it because he scouted better that time. And "leenock beat naniwa with 4 all ins, therefor he's better" k. By your sick logic, bitbybit.prime is better than haypro then? oGstheSTC is better than Idra. Catz is better than nestea.
On December 10 2011 09:18 HappyChris wrote: Great interview I actually agree with Naniwa the scene is very much a popularity contest. Instead it should be a competition of skills.
I see it alot from the US team they seem to be very good at PR and are really good at hyping there players. Take EG as an example
EG with Huk/Puma/Idra as superstar champions?
I'd rather take TL with their whole rooster,besides Hero i guess, lagging behind right now, but we all LOVE them because of how awesome they are, each in their own way.
But why are the superstars? Thats the quistion?. Huk and Idra result been horrible many other foreigners or koreans for that matter got much better results l8tly. Huk won MLG ill give him that but he was seeded in the pool bracket. Huk is a wonderfull player dont get me wrong he is just so inconsistent. Idra well not much to say about him His IEM china win he won vs a protoss player Elfi that cant play PvZ thats it.
You see Huk and Idra and puma in korean standard are just average top players. Many foreigners and koreans got better results. Stephano,Naniwa,Sen,Sase and for Puma pretty much every code S player got better result then him.
But still the EG hype machine has somehow convinced the fans that they are the best in the world and that isnt the case fare from it. And when they loses its jetlag to much travel or some other 3rd factor. When in reality is that the hype and overexposure from EG and there PR machine dont justify there actually skill level.
Thats what I mean by a popularity contest.
So I do think Naniwa is right to much popularity and to less competition of skills.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Unless being a basement troll is the standard you're living up to, yes, seriously. Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
ಠ_ಠ seriously?
Unless being a basement troll is the standard you're living up to, yes, seriously.
You are mixing up two things, one is to have charisma and the other is to be an actor.
As I said Incontrol is kept by EG neither because of his results (he has none) nor because of his personnality (not appealing to the community), but because he chose, in order to keep having a role in EG, since he couldn't fill the two conditions I exposed, to play the actor for EG and try to market their brand and sponsors.
EG accepted because he represented the archetyp of a north american gamer,so they could picture themselves in his shoes: fat, no job, trollish and bullied by a majority of people. Add to this signs of social success like a big house, a dog, and a former model "girl friend" all provided by EG, and you will have a "fanbase".
Then, as long as he can, and since he is being invited to every show that has a north american audience, for he is friend with their hosts or they are friends with EG, present EG's brand and sponsors, he will have a place, although his place and fanbase is all built and provided by EG itself, as he chose to play the scenario they wrote.
On December 10 2011 17:16 NKsc2 wrote: Naniwa got all inned 4times in a row in the finals even tho he's far better than Leenock which proves your statement.
LOL! If that's your view/analysis of those games vs. Leenock then you are just a Bronzie
No, I'm a masterie former grandmasterie. If you can't tell what an all in is then you're awful You think an all in is when you pull all your workers; it's not.
If you can't tell why Leenock all inned 4 times in a row then you're awful
Hint: It sort of might kind of have to do with Naniwa's rigid/failed opening decisions in all 4 games. LOL
You can hold off roach rush with ffe lol he held it off the first game, right? Check naniwas interview post event. He explained that it wasnt his opening, he just played badly lol. Don't argue about the gameplay, please xD You're a lowleaguer and you know nothing of sc2 lol.
.....and you claim you were GM? It's now proven that you're no higher than Diamond. A 1 cannon FFE is by no means safe without a decent scout. He held it off because he scouted it the first game due to Leenock showing the roaches. He did not hold off the other ones due to Leenock playing better and preventing the scout (or interpret this as Naniwa playing worse and not scouting better). Regardless, you just proved your own point wrong -- he played worse than Leenock that day, thus was the worse player. You're a lowleaguer and know nothing of sc2 lol.
On December 10 2011 19:04 jnsjr wrote:
Naniwa held it off in that one game because Leenock messed up and showed his roaches to his zealot, which allowed Naniwa time to get up more cannons. In the other games he didn't scout the roaches and wasn't able to hold it with a single cannon. Roach rush is a known hard counter to FFE with one cannon, as is three quick hatch. Seeing how Nestea, one of the best zerg macro players in the world, lost going for 3 quick hatch against Naniwa's 2 base timing after his FFE, it's no surprise Leenock decided to roach rush to punish it.
Precisely.
You're so clueless I won't even bother argumenting with you because you're a lowleaguer and you don't understand pro games, mkay? Maybe in your diamond league that you claim to be (which is still a lowleague), the "forge expand with one cannon no matter what you see" is a build, it isn't here. Naniwa said himself he played poorly. Sheth tried to roach ling all in him in Dreamhack. What happened? he defended it because he scouted better that time. And "leenock beat naniwa with 4 all ins, therefor he's better" k. By your sick logic, bitbybit.prime is better than haypro then? oGstheSTC is better than Idra. Catz is better than nestea.
God, you really are a moron. Didn't say I was in Diamond, lol, said you proved you must be in Diamond based on how stupid your analysis of Naniwa vs. Leenock series is.
Multiple people have chimed in telling you about your flawed view on that series.
That is all. Good bye Diamond-leaguer. Also, all that shit you included in the end of your paragraph...just lol. Strawman much.
On December 10 2011 09:18 HappyChris wrote: Great interview I actually agree with Naniwa the scene is very much a popularity contest. Instead it should be a competition of skills.
I see it alot from the US team they seem to be very good at PR and are really good at hyping there players. Take EG as an example
EG with Huk/Puma/Idra as superstar champions?
I'd rather take TL with their whole rooster,besides Hero i guess, lagging behind right now, but we all LOVE them because of how awesome they are, each in their own way.
But why are the superstars? Thats the quistion?. Huk and Idra result been horrible many other foreigners or koreans for that matter got much better results l8tly. Huk won MLG ill give him that but he was seeded in the pool bracket. Huk is a wonderfull player dont get me wrong he is just so inconsistent. Idra well not much to say about him His IEM china win he won vs a protoss player Elfi that cant play PvZ thats it.
You see Huk and Idra and puma in korean standard are just average top players. Many foreigners and koreans got better results. Stephano,Naniwa,Sen,Sase and for Puma pretty much every code S player got better result then him.
But still the EG hype machine has somehow convinced the fans that they are the best in the world and that isnt the case fare from it. And when they loses its jetlag to much travel or some other 3rd factor. When in reality is that the hype and overexposure from EG and there PR machine dont justify there actually skill level.
Thats what I mean by a popularity contest.
So I do think Naniwa is right to much popularity and to less competition of skills.
I agree 100%. I think sooner or later people will favor players that win. Sure having thousands of viewers on streams make the fans happy and thus the sponsors happy but is it more important than winning a GSL? Koreans win because they can focus on the game and while foreigners are busy doing the marketing for their teams they will never catch up. Is it better to have a star or a highly dedicated player that is supported by thousands of viewers going against the Koreans?
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
I bet they'd trade Axslav for him though...
Is Axlav a popular figure? Is he charismatic? Has he lots of fans? Than why bring it up?
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you? You're calling me and others on TL 3year olds, I call you dumb because your posts are just full off nonsence, you constantly go offtopic or change your mind and your points are often just plain lies. You say you're a fan of naniwa, you obviously aren't. Calling someone worthless and then saying he doesn't give a shit about his fans while he's ontop of thanking his fans in every interview (including the interview of the fucking topic we're posting in right now!) is not being a huge fan . And there's a huuuuge difference between "Naniwa is a waste of money, there is no money to be earned with him" and "skill is not the only thing a team is looking for". Those 2 sentances completely contradicts each other. I understand you're from romania so perhaps expressing yourself in english isn't easy for you but I think even google translate could do a better job here.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
This is senseless what ifs.. He earned that place... btw he won MLG from an open bracket, going undefeated 26-0...
No koreans blablabla
So many people want to take away ppls achievements.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
He also beat MVP and NesTea once again in that mini tournament whatever it was called. ( the same weekend as MLG)
This is great, could'nt be more awesome, NaNiwa and SaSe in the same team, my favorite players! And why hate if he changes teams or not, he still delivers and proves that he's one of the best players in the world.. its just even better that he does that while he is happier outside the game!
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you? You're calling me and others on TL 3year olds, I call you dumb because your posts are just full off nonsence, you constantly go offtopic or change your mind and your points are often just plain lies. You say you're a fan of naniwa, you obviously aren't. Calling someone worthless and then saying he doesn't give a shit about his fans while he's ontop of thanking his fans in every interview (including the interview of the fucking topic we're posting in right now!) is not being a huge fan . And there's a huuuuge difference between "Naniwa is a waste of money, there is no money to be earned with him" and "skill is not the only thing a team is looking for". Those 2 sentances completely contradicts each other. I understand you're from romania so perhaps expressing yourself in english isn't easy for you but I think even google translate could do a better job here.
Go play in your Diamond league boy cause the forum is too hard for you to understand and follow. Your last post proved that you don't understand anything. You're a waste of time to anyone who replies to you. Cya.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
But Incontrol IS funny, has charisma and has a great personality. You are taking the backlash thing out of proportion, because he has many fans supporting him. It's just that the minority is more vocal.
Actually you can't honestly decide yourself of the opinion of silent people. Popularity is by definition defined by what is vocalized, fans aren't voiceless either. You will find alot of hype and positives posts on reddit about popular players, and that is what being popular stands for, so yes when the majority of posts are hate posts, you can affirm of someone's impopularity.
And having support and a hardcore fanbase nonetheless, despite not being the majority of people, doesn't mean that this fanbase comes for you personnaly for what you are and stands for, but mostly here in this case by sympathy for being in NA's most popular team.
Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote: [quote]
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
You're taking my sentance out of context to make it seem like something else, so fucking immature. I was asking how I was insulting him any worse than him when he's calling everyone 3year olds? But fine:
You make
incontrols
girlfriend
marketable
Is this what you said? No. So don't post unless you can manage to use the quote system properly you immature prick.
On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote: [quote]
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
Oh boy, hating on school is so old-fashioned. Sorry if you droped out early, but don't feel like it is an accomplishment you can brag about to people that chose a different path.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
But Incontrol IS funny, has charisma and has a great personality. You are taking the backlash thing out of proportion, because he has many fans supporting him. It's just that the minority is more vocal.
Actually you can't honestly decide yourself of the opinion of silent people. Popularity is by definition defined by what is vocalized, fans aren't voiceless either. You will find alot of hype and positives posts on reddit about popular players, and that is what being popular stands for, so yes when the majority of posts are hate posts, you can affirm of someone's impopularity.
And having support and a hardcore fanbase nonetheless, despite not being the majority of people, doesn't mean that this fanbase comes for you personnaly for what you are and stands for, but mostly here in this case by sympathy for being in NA's most popular team.
you surely can NOT do that and trust reddit. Honestly: what is easier to make and stings more out: A positive post about a player or completly shittalk about one? What gets more attention? what is easier or makes you more ""obligated"" to write? Always the negativ feedback. It's not a sc2 thing, it's an internet/anonymity thing. I know that you can't really count the fans, i give you that, but still, denying that Incontrol is not popular is just wrong. Remember the two episodes of state of the game where Incontrol wasn't in it anymore??
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
What? Do you think it's better sponsor/team exposure to stream online mid NA GrandMaster for a 3,000 viewers than to stand in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt representing your team as a winner of the MLG Global Invitational and then taking 2nd place beating Nestea/MVP infront of 300,000 viewers? You're so out of touch with reality.
Lol. I can bet you that EG would not trade incontrol for Naniwa because skill is something that it's not exactly rare in ESPORTS right now, but charisma and popularity are.
Incontrol is neither popular nor charismatic, he is just friend with the old NA bw crew (Artosis, Day9, Idra...) which gives him a seat in shows like state of the game, and that's he only reason why EG keeps him as he is able, in default to tournament results, to shout out his sponsors to an audience. Nothing to do with personnality, as you can see how much backlash he takes from community and the way he deals with it (like trolling on reddit and twitter).
But Incontrol IS funny, has charisma and has a great personality. You are taking the backlash thing out of proportion, because he has many fans supporting him. It's just that the minority is more vocal.
Actually you can't honestly decide yourself of the opinion of silent people. Popularity is by definition defined by what is vocalized, fans aren't voiceless either. You will find alot of hype and positives posts on reddit about popular players, and that is what being popular stands for, so yes when the majority of posts are hate posts, you can affirm of someone's impopularity.
And having support and a hardcore fanbase nonetheless, despite not being the majority of people, doesn't mean that this fanbase comes for you personnaly for what you are and stands for, but mostly here in this case by sympathy for being in NA's most popular team.
you surely can NOT do that and trust reddit. Honestly: what is easier to make and stings more out: A positive post about a player or completly shittalk about one? What gets more attention? what is easier or makes you more ""obligated"" to write? Always the negativ feedback. It's not a sc2 thing, it's an internet/anonymity thing. I know that you can't really count the fans, i give you that, but still, denying that Incontrol is not popular is just wrong. Remember the two episodes of state of the game where Incontrol wasn't in it anymore??
Yeah I'm ok with viewers from sotg missing him, as sotg has a very precise and dedicated fanbase focused around NA and EG, because of the time zone and the protagonists invited (switching between sotg, lo3, itg...), but it doesn't mean that this fanbase as vocal and supportive as it is representative of what the majority of the sc2 community think about him.
That's why, despite having support, I don't say the support he gets grants him being popular among the community, as it doesn't come from a group of people that stands for the majority.
Kind of funny how CoL priorities, anyway now when the Korean starting to streams I don't think CatZ will be getting as many viewers, just watching ForGG now with 5k. :D
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
You're right that as a professional you should try and promote your sponsors. But it seems like some teams put fame and likeability over results and that's sucks. This is a sport, not wrestling and top level play should be the main focus while marketability comes 2nd. I guess SC2 isn't large enough yet though.
If you compare it to others sports like soccer you'd never see Barcelona or Manchester United use crappy players just for exposure. The game comes first, and if you don't put up results you won't matter anyways.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
You're right that as a professional you should try and promote your sponsors. But it seems like some teams put fame and likeability over results and that's sucks. This is a sport, not wrestling and top level play should be the main focus while marketability comes 2nd. I guess SC2 isn't large enough yet though.
If you compare it to others sports like soccer you'd never see Barcelona or Manchester United use crappy players just for exposure. The game comes first, and if you don't put up results you won't matter anyways.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
You're right that as a professional you should try and promote your sponsors. But it seems like some teams put fame and likeability over results and that's sucks. This is a sport, not wrestling and top level play should be the main focus while marketability comes 2nd. I guess SC2 isn't large enough yet though.
If you compare it to others sports like soccer you'd never see Barcelona or Manchester United use crappy players just for exposure. The game comes first, and if you don't put up results you won't matter anyways.
but Man united and Barcelona use their best players, their most known and famous players to advertise brands
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
Oh boy, hating on school is so old-fashioned. Sorry if you droped out early, but don't feel like it is an accomplishment you can brag about to people that chose a different path.
actually it was an implication that your logic and reasoning is childish. Thats why i said grade schooler, and not high schooler, or university student or something. I wasnt 'hating on school'.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
You're taking my sentance out of context to make it seem like something else, so fucking immature. I was asking how I was insulting him any worse than him when he's calling everyone 3year olds? But fine:
Is this what you said? No. So don't post unless you can manage to use the quote system properly you immature prick.
Yeah, thats totally the same. You FLAT OUT insulted him, and then asked How am i insulting you? You didnt ask, ''how is my insult worse? How is what i said unfair, after all that you've said?'' Nope, you asked where you insulted him, and then you write that you called him dumb. Thats not taking shit out of context. I dont understand how warped your mind needs to be not to comprehend this.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
You're right that as a professional you should try and promote your sponsors. But it seems like some teams put fame and likeability over results and that's sucks. This is a sport, not wrestling and top level play should be the main focus while marketability comes 2nd. I guess SC2 isn't large enough yet though.
If you compare it to others sports like soccer you'd never see Barcelona or Manchester United use crappy players just for exposure. The game comes first, and if you don't put up results you won't matter anyways.
but Man united and Barcelona use their best players, their most known and famous players to advertise brands
Man U and Barcelona could use crappy players and still win because of the refs...
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
If that's true then it's kinda sad tbh. It's like i said earlier, the most popular in others sports are 99.9% of cases the top end players. In Starcraft we see more of the wrestling/mma kind of fans where the showy talkative types can get more cred than the ones who keep their heads down and produce results.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more (than incontrol).
I dont think so. The amount of exposure that EG gets through incontrol is worth a lot more to that company than a good player that is bad at exposing his team.
Why do you think major isnt on the big teams, because he isnt good at the game? He is great at the game but major is just not the guy that is good at advertising stuff and pleasing his sponsors. Just like naniwa isnt as good as incontrol in that regard, not even close.
For example, i could never tell you what companies sponsor complexity, because coL players arent as good about advertising them as EG, of which i pretty much know all sponsors because incontrol and co mention them every time they are in front of a camera. Pair that with the fact that incontrol is in front of the camera a lot more often than naniwa and we have a clear winner regarding who is better at drawing attention to his team
You are so wrong about your assumption its incredibad.
This is what growing up is all about, when the right thing to do is not always the best thing to do.
The faster the players get it that they need to be marketable the better. As someone here stated, EG doesn't have the best players but we all have that impression from the awesome PR they are doing.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
Are you kidding me? He beat both MVP and Nestea (twice) at MLG + DRG and Huk.
I'm not talking about the global invitational. Nestea also lost a game to Idra, Kiwikaki and two to Haypro. He clearly was not playing anywhere near his best. And the last time Huk won a PvP in a best of x was in Orlando. That's a long time ago.
he won over hero in a pvp before he faced naniwa....get your facts right pls
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave
I'm pretty sure most of these teams didn't kick him, but he left. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but dignitas did not oppose to continue their run with Naniwa, but he wanted more support, and dignitas didn't want to spend that much for one single player, and that's why they chose not to prolong his contract with dignitas. Not that he didn't behave.
So the most important thing that Naniwa has said that verifies his side of the story is the comment he made about wanting to play and team up with SaSe. I know for a fact that SaSe and Naniwa are good friends, they respect each other and get along really well. You might think this isn't enough motivation to team-switch but I would suggest that's because you've never experienced the kind of isolation you get from being a foreigner, alone in Korea. I can't imagine a stronger motivator than wanting to have some damn company over there.
On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote: [quote]
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
Oh boy, hating on school is so old-fashioned. Sorry if you droped out early, but don't feel like it is an accomplishment you can brag about to people that chose a different path.
actually it was an implication that your logic and reasoning is childish. Thats why i said grade schooler, and not high schooler, or university student or something. I wasnt 'hating on school'.
On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote: [quote]
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
You're taking my sentance out of context to make it seem like something else, so fucking immature. I was asking how I was insulting him any worse than him when he's calling everyone 3year olds? But fine:
You make
incontrols
girlfriend
marketable
Is this what you said? No. So don't post unless you can manage to use the quote system properly you immature prick.
Yeah, thats totally the same. You FLAT OUT insulted him, and then asked How am i insulting you? You didnt ask, ''how is my insult worse? How is what i said unfair, after all that you've said?'' Nope, you asked where you insulted him, and then you write that you called him dumb. Thats not taking shit out of context. I dont understand how warped your mind needs to be not to comprehend this.
Well you can't be really serious if you pick out your hurted feelings to sustain your argumentation, especially if the goal you presented is to expose childishness. That said, when you feel superior enough to predict someone's graduation level over the net, and yet fail to understand the reverse tongue-in-cheek, I can't help but feel like I litteraly haven't been wrong.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
i like how those are the "facts" because it's the side naniwa said.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave
But what are you talking about now? Naniwa would still be in his former teams? Who said he got kicked out of any? He left dignitas because he wanted into a korean pro house. Complexity was one of the only organization with a korean partnership so he joined them. Then as soon as it got out that Startale was going to become partners with Quantic, he instantly switched aswell. Coincidence? No. It's like he said, it didn't matter if he had been in complexity for 1 month or 10 years. MVP house didn't help at all, he played a maximum of 10 games in the MVP players.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls.
Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
[quote]
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
Oh boy, hating on school is so old-fashioned. Sorry if you droped out early, but don't feel like it is an accomplishment you can brag about to people that chose a different path.
actually it was an implication that your logic and reasoning is childish. Thats why i said grade schooler, and not high schooler, or university student or something. I wasnt 'hating on school'.
On December 10 2011 20:37 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 20:25 TheAntZ wrote:
On December 10 2011 20:11 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 20:01 ceaRshaf wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:57 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:51 ceaRshaf wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote: [quote]
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
[quote]
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
The salary of a player does not reflect the need of company for him but his negotiations skills. This is why salaries are not released in any company or across companies, because people are not payed what they are worthed but what they negotiate. Stop telling others that they are out of touch with reality cause you are from Mars.
Ok sure. Catz is worth more than naniwa, I give up. And "In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money". He thanks his team and fans in every interview he does, he just thanked his fans in this very interview but "He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him." You're so dumb that I am amazed that you aren't banned from teamliquid yet. Saying the arguably best foreigner in the world is worth nothing and then blatantly lieing that he doesnt care about fans/sponsors is so immature
Why are you insulting me? And you don't get anything from what I post even though I bring arguments with every statement.
Also, I am a huge Naniwa fan, but all my posts are regarding the statements of Col. I said that I can understand Cols decisions because skill is not the only thing a team is looking for. Is that so hard to understand?
How am I insulting you?
And right after
I call you dumb
Seriously? get out. You make about as good a point as the grade schooler trying to convince people that EG bought incontrol a model girlfriend so that he'll be more marketable. Good lordy
You're taking my sentance out of context to make it seem like something else, so fucking immature. I was asking how I was insulting him any worse than him when he's calling everyone 3year olds? But fine:
You make
incontrols
girlfriend
marketable
Is this what you said? No. So don't post unless you can manage to use the quote system properly you immature prick.
Yeah, thats totally the same. You FLAT OUT insulted him, and then asked How am i insulting you? You didnt ask, ''how is my insult worse? How is what i said unfair, after all that you've said?'' Nope, you asked where you insulted him, and then you write that you called him dumb. Thats not taking shit out of context. I dont understand how warped your mind needs to be not to comprehend this.
Well you can't be really serious if you pick out your hurted feelings to sustain your argumentation, especially if the goal you presented is to expose childishness. That said, when you feel superior enough to predict someone's graduation level over the net, and yet fail to understand the reverse tongue-in-cheek, I can't help but feel like I litteraly haven't been wrong.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls.
Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
"Totti spits opponents in the face" "Zidane headbutts opponent in the world cup finals"
Yup, these guys are totally seen as idiots in the world of soccer, right? Infact, they are both seen as some of the all-time greats, and are pretty much idolised in their countrys.
And i don't think you have actually watched to many interviews with soccer players. There are so many being very rude to the press. However i don't blame them, you do.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish.
On December 10 2011 21:22 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:
On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:
On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave
But what are you talking about now? Naniwa would still be in his former teams? Who said he got kicked out of any? He left dignitas because he wanted into a korean pro house. Complexity was one of the only organization with a korean partnership so he joined them. Then as soon as it got out that Startale was going to become partners with Quantic, he instantly switched aswell. Coincidence? No. It's like he said, it didn't matter if he had been in complexity for 1 month or 10 years. MVP house didn't help at all, he played a maximum of 10 games in the MVP players.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
who says i'm solely talking about coL? and even in the coL case, both sides tell different stories, why am i supposed to believe this side of the story? and yes, if apples were tomatoes, they wouldn't be apples anymore. and noone's arguing about the fact that naniwa's performances are better than incontrol's but that's not what it's all about despite what you might wish.
On December 10 2011 21:22 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 21:18 MepHiii wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:45 NKsc2 wrote:
On December 10 2011 19:21 ceaRshaf wrote:
On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote:
On December 10 2011 18:19 ceaRshaf wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
Did you even watch the video at the start? Naniwa clearly said it was his choice. They sold him to Quantic because he wanted to go there. Complexity didn't actively try to get rid of naniwa, Naniwa tried to actively get rid of complexity. Get your facts straight. And you don't think naniwa is more valuable than Catz/Incontrol? Then you're just deadwrong, not much more to discuss.
again, both sides different story, your choice to believe naniwa's story, doesn't make me have to do it. "get your facts straight " good to know you actually know all the facts. and yes, i don't think he is, as merz said, it's not all about your performance, otherwise, again, naniwa would still be in his former teams. unless of course the release statements there were propaganda, too, and it was actually naniwa wanting to leave
I'm pretty sure most of these teams didn't kick him, but he left. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but dignitas did not oppose to continue their run with Naniwa, but he wanted more support, and dignitas didn't want to spend that much for one single player, and that's why they chose not to prolong his contract with dignitas. Not that he didn't behave.
now I would really like to know where those dignitas stories are coming from? i didn't follow the TL threads too closely after dignitas released naniwa, so are these explainations just something people have made up because no explaination was given at the time? not saying any of you are right or wrong, just curious.,
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls.
Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
"Totti spits opponents in the face" "Zidane headbutts opponent in the world cup finals"
Yup, these guys are totally seen as idiots in the world of soccer, right? Infact, they are both seen as some of the all-time greats, and are pretty much idolised in their countrys.
And i don't think you have actually watched to many interviews with soccer players. There are so many being very rude to the press. However i don't blame them, you do.
Yes it is pretty much, as time is money, structure's work to build the image of their players as they will represent their brand, sponsors and products, whereas players' one is to make results that will justify their image. Everybody at his place and everything will work smoothly.
When players have to do their own PR, as it will take their focus and time from the practice they need to do results, they will have to ask extra remuneration from their team as they do twice the work they are paid for, and will probably not have the same amount of cash price they would get if they focused 100% on practice.
This why where we have these akward situations where a player builds up a strong image by making alot of PR but doesn't have the results to back it off, and creates a schizophrenic reaction from the community with fans against antifans voice contests.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls.
Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
I love this thread. I think it's proven that Naniwa IS a good PR-guy, he gets everyone talking
To comment on your football player statement: HAHAHA, are you insane? Just read newspapers, football is a god damn farse tbh! People calling each other scrubs and shit all over EU... BM in football? You sir made me laugh
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
If a soccer player calls an opponent "just an idiot" and generally BMs even the half of how Narniwa BMs, in 2 seasons he's playing for FC Bakers United in the 4th league. Pls.
Maybe complexity will lay their cards on the table as well after this, I'm really curious to hear both sides of the story.
"Totti spits opponents in the face" "Zidane headbutts opponent in the world cup finals"
Yup, these guys are totally seen as idiots in the world of soccer, right? Infact, they are both seen as some of the all-time greats, and are pretty much idolised in their countrys.
And i don't think you have actually watched to many interviews with soccer players. There are so many being very rude to the press. However i don't blame them, you do.
Yes it is pretty much, as time is money, structure's work to build the image of their players as they will represent their brand, sponsors and products, whereas players' one is to make results that will justify their image. Everybody at his place and everything will work smoothly.
When players have to do their own PR, as it will take their focus and time from the practice they need to do results, they will have to ask extra remuneration from their team as they do twice the work they are paid for, and will probably not have the same amount of cash price they would get if they focused 100% on practice.
This why where we have these akward situations where a player builds up a strong image by making alot of PR but doesn't have the results to back it off, and creates a schizophrenic reaction from the community with fans against antifans voice contests.
However, PR is in for the long run, practice is overwhelmed when you are tilting. Tyler has so many fans right now even though he is tilted because he had a good image coming from BW.
Destiny, Catz, Tyler, Incontrol and many alike have fans that hang to them even when they are doing bad because the fans have a bond with the character not the player.
For instance, look at Sheth and Ret, both are monster zergs but Ret doesn't interact with the community that much. If both players lost their skills suddenly I think fans will forget Sheth a lot harder just because they know him as a character more than just a player.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
On December 10 2011 09:24 Beakyboo wrote: It's a little confusing that coL implies they were actively trying to get rid of him and then Naniwa completely contradicts this. Someone's lying and is going to look stupid. I don't even know what coL's motivation was in revealing that in the first place honestly, as it doesn't really achieve much but stir up drama. Better off just presenting it as a mutual decision rather than making vague insinuations and leaving it to the sewing circle TL forums to fill in the details.
Yea, I was thinking that too.
I wonder if the contract actually had a clause that allowed them to "sell" naniwa without his consent. That's a weird thing to have in a contract.
I also want to be clear this was not a mutual decision. This was solely compLexity's decision to do this. We were going to sell the contract to someone and we are happy that Naniwa and Quantic were able to come to terms.
What they are saying doesnt even make sense, clearly he wasnt happy there and maybe they came to him first saying we are looking to sell your contract but after that i dont see how it wasnt mutual, after they tell him that, whats he going to do? say no i want to stay on a team that doesnt want me? They are trying to make it seem like they had the upper hand in the deal to make themselves look better, but it just comes off as sounding douchey.
Ive never really liked complexity, they are kinda like EG in alot of ways , a big company that puts way too much stock in PR and not enough on results. When has one of their actual players done well in a tournament besides naniwa (by actual players i am excluding their partnership with mvp, mvp is still very much their own team) trimaster did okay i guess but since then hes pretty much done nothing (it was an impressive run and i like the guy but i havent heard anything about him since then) they have a very lackluster line up, selling naniwa was a HUGE HUGE mistake imo he is (i have no doubts about this) going to be one of the very top players in the world his results are already pointing in this direction. Who cares about a little attitude when you are on your way to becoming one of the best players in the scene, EG lets its slide with idra and they have done really well because of it. Col has got to lighten up a little bit or they and their line up are going to fade fromm everyones memory (at least tournament wise) im sure their players have lots of young fans who like to watch them stream because they are funny or charismatic that is only going to get you so far though , the most memorable teams are the teams with the superstars.
Alot of the very very best players in any sport have quirks that come with them, if you cant accept that as a team your not going to get very far.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
I would say you are right to some extent but it seems naive at the same time. Professional players rarely give interviews after matches willingly, its stated in their contracts that they have to. The same thing with commercials etc. Some do it because it just presents them with an oppertunity to make insane amounts of money for a relatively small effort. But not all of them do it, some people are just more private by nature. I see soccer examples being thrown around. Remember Paul Scoles? A briliant midfielder for Man U but a very private person, never exposed himself to the public unless ordered to. He let his performance on the field speak for itself.
Players performances are what teams buy when they acquire their ace players. Players that are good AND presentable are therefor worth twice as much in the eyes of teams just because its so rare and that is something people tend to forget.
Players like incontrol, catz are important in their own right for their exposure but only because we have these other pro gamers that present the fans with amazing matches. If we had a scene with only incontrols, catz and destiny's the sc2-scene would die. Im not intentionally bashing just saying we need both.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
Hehe good 'ol Ingvar Kamprad indeed doesn't spend a penny if he doesn't have to, and he's a very succesful man
Naniwa shows results and he is someone that is talked about and even though he's often times maybe not in control of his emotions, I for one part don't mind that at all. At the end of the day, Naninwa places high again and the haters haven't even made it out of the open bracket.
Nice interview. Interesting about the coL bit about how they see Catz hitting 5k viewers the same as him finishing 2nd in MLG. I wonder if they would echo that thought.
On December 10 2011 17:44 ceaRshaf wrote: I understand Naniwas point of view, but remember what EGs manager said in an interview, that they want in a player to be obviously good, but more important to be presentable, have charisma and have lots of fans to carry sponsors well.
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
When you're staying in a house paid for by your pro-gamer team, and your room is twice as big as your star player's room while other players are sharing tiny rooms, I think that speaks for itself as to his deal with EG.
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
Student in telepathy? Awesome!
Anyway, your reading on that dude was so off and it was clear what he was trying to say, but I guess not clear enough for you.
Between the two you chose the absurd, I would like to congratulate you back but my tongue would suffer the taste of bitterness.
Let me phrase it again instead: to read someone's mind doesn't belong to the field of psychology, and thus not what you can learn when studying psychology.
On December 10 2011 23:24 danteafk wrote: naniwa got so skinny in korea.
frightening.
He looks healthy and well rested to me......
And his hair looks pretty cool. To me this should be the headline, it's the real important news. Not Naniwa talks about moving to Quantic, but Naniwa has tidied up and dyed his hair.
EDIT: Nani seems to get pretty affected by haters...saddening. Naniwa you're my favourite player I look forward to watching you crush nerds.
On December 10 2011 17:58 turdburgler wrote: [quote]
clearly quantic disagrees. and im sure they know more about it than you
Love this kind of comments.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
When you're staying in a house paid for by your pro-gamer team, and your room is twice as big as your star player's room while other players are sharing tiny rooms, I think that speaks for itself as to his deal with EG.
Are you dense? He has a bigger room because he shares it with Anna and she needs the room for the other stuff that she does. You think EG would put either of them in the position of putting Anna in a room by herself while her boyfriend is in the same house? Or put them in the position where Anna is sharing a room with another EG member? Take Anna out of the picture and Incontrol is in the same room as anyone else. Wow man think...
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
And if quantic let's go naniwa then what? Quantic thinks that they can make money out of him. I hope they can so that everybody is happy, but the reason still stands. Naniwa is a difficult person for a manager.
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
When you're staying in a house paid for by your pro-gamer team, and your room is twice as big as your star player's room while other players are sharing tiny rooms, I think that speaks for itself as to his deal with EG.
Are you dense? He has a bigger room because he shares it with Anna and she needs the room for the other stuff that she does. You think EG would put either of them in the position of putting Anna in a room by herself while her boyfriend is in the same house? Or put them in the position where Anna is sharing a room with another EG member? Take Anna out of the picture and Incontrol is in the same room as anyone else. Wow man think...
I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the video. Also it is just one of the more obvious pointers to the fact that incontrol makes a lot of money compared to a lot of other pro gamers, if you actually follow him and EG in general there's been a lot of comments indicating this.
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
Student in telepathy? Awesome!
Anyway, your reading on that dude was so off and it was clear what he was trying to say, but I guess not clear enough for you.
Between the two you chose the absurd, I would like to congratulate you back but my tongue would suffer the taste of bitterness.
Let me phrase it again instead: to read someone's mind doesn't belong to the field of psychology, and thus not what you can learn when studying psychology.
On December 10 2011 18:47 turdburgler wrote: [quote]
if they let him go then you will of been proven right. but what if they dont? what if eg kick idra ? what if col disbands? random what if questions that you have no basis for.
What reason do I have for thinking EG will kick idra? Or that COL disbands? None. But what reasons do I have for Naniwa to change his team again? His past. Btw, not saying that he will, just telling you that thinking the possibility is not far fetched.
What does incontrol have to do with this? Incontrol is a whole different deal, he is constantly doing commercials, retweeting for their sponsors, participating in SOTG and he is reperesenting EG really well by being a loved by the community. He isn't that good at starcraft (in pro standards), but that doesn't matter. I bet you that even if he got his fingers chopped off EG wouldn't kick him. They do not keep incontrol in their team because they think he'll win tournaments, I can promise you that. We were comparing Catz vs. Naniwa, Streaming low NA GM for 3,000 viewers vs. winning a fucking MLG infront of 300,000 people in a sponsor-drowned teamshirt. Stay ontopic now
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old, that can't focus on a discussion.
That was the whole point dude. You claimed that him being so good at starcraft and placing high must be that important to a company. And I brought up Incontrol, the exact opposite of Naniwa. Talking to this forum sometimes feels like being in a kindergarten.
Ok fine let's compare with incontrol. Here's a quote of what you said:
In the eyes of a company Naniwa is a waste of money. He doesn't care about fans or sponsors, only about the game and there is no money to be earned with him.
Incontrol is worth more for a company than naniwa is? I can bet you my life that naniwa gets payed higher tho. To any company outside of complexity, he's definetly worth more than Catz. You're so out of touch with reality.
you, sir, are actually wrong. you don't realise the whole story, else why do you think are naniwa's teams actively trying to get rid of him i'm pretty sure if you asked a hypothetical team that has worked with both incontrol/catz and naniwa, who they would like to pick up, it won't be naniwa they will be shooting for. don't bet your life when all you know about the situation is that which you read on TL forums
NaNiWa told coL he wants to get sold, they werent the ones initiating it. I like how you just make up random stuff when you havent watched the interview or read about it. Also iNcontroL wouldnt be worth more to EG than Naniwa if it wasnt for the fact that he's some sort of mini-coach for the team. If you look at his appearances and results alone Naniwa would be worth so much more.
I'd be very surprised if naniwa makes more money than incontrol. He might be a million times the better player, but Incontrol's media committments and brand recognition would be worth $$$. When you watch the EG house tour, Idra's not the one with the massive pimped out bedroom.
How does the amount of pointless items you have reflect how much money you earn? I know a billionaire (yes billionaire) who rolls around in a rusty car from 1995 and wears old clothes, never spends money on anything except business, yet he has a ridiculous amount.
When you're staying in a house paid for by your pro-gamer team, and your room is twice as big as your star player's room while other players are sharing tiny rooms, I think that speaks for itself as to his deal with EG.
Are you dense? He has a bigger room because he shares it with Anna and she needs the room for the other stuff that she does. You think EG would put either of them in the position of putting Anna in a room by herself while her boyfriend is in the same house? Or put them in the position where Anna is sharing a room with another EG member? Take Anna out of the picture and Incontrol is in the same room as anyone else. Wow man think...
I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the video. Also it is just one of the more obvious pointers to the fact that incontrol makes a lot of money compared to a lot of other pro gamers, if you actually follow him and EG in general there's been a lot of comments indicating this.
No there hasn't? Rather the opposit. When HuK's salary was a hot topic, Incontrol said that he doesn't get payed as much as idra, but it doesnt bother him because he knows that he doesn't deserve to be payed as much as idra. What did you see that indicated that Incontrol would be payed more?
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
Judging by the amount of Reddit and TL threads dedicated to Naniwa in the last month, I'd say his "exposure" value is starting to catch up with his "skilled player" value. Now he only needs to win Code S and do another TL Attack with Thorzain and he will be the most valuable player in the world!
I'll always be a fan of naniwa, I love his dedication and he seems to have good intentions even though it doesn't come out exactly the way he wanted to. Dunno why people are hating. Maybe you have to be swedish to not be offended by his actions or smth. NANIWA FIGHTING <3
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
1. Sociology is the study of groups, not occupations. 2. Again, he is correct because either telepathy or psychology would be correct in that case. 3. If you attempt to make other people look stupid it is best to at least use accurate statements when doing so.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
A note to everyone out that: Merz is in the top list of players I have had the pleasure of interviewing, this guy is incredibly smart and such a nice guy
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
1. Sociology is the study of groups, not occupations. 2. Again, he is correct because either telepathy or psychology would be correct in that case. 3. If you attempt to make other people look stupid it is best to at least use accurate statements when doing so.
1. Having an occupation makes you belong to a group and falls into sociology's field. Please get some notions of logic like one thing not excluding the other. 2. Psychology doesn't make you read minds, so he is not. 3. Exposing people's arguments just make them look the way they present themselves, also you're terrible at slandering.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
You will not see his GSL performance, because he always gets stomped by mediocre Korean players.
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
1. Sociology is the study of groups, not occupations. 2. Again, he is correct because either telepathy or psychology would be correct in that case. 3. If you attempt to make other people look stupid it is best to at least use accurate statements when doing so.
1. Having an occupation makes you belong to a group and falls into sociology's field. Please get some notions of logic like one thing not excluding the other. 2. Psychology doesn't make you read minds, so he is not. 3. Exposing people just make them look the way they present themselves, also you're terrible at slandering.
Dude you are funny, and so smart.
Well telepathy doesn't actually exist and psychologists claim to understand peoples reasonings and motives for their actions so is there a reason why should I have suggested that you are a student in telepathy? Is there a logic to you whole premise? I said that your posts yell " I can read your mind", not that you actually can, but act ignorant like you could.
And again, your whole read on that guy was bad. So you are actually a bad student but ignorant in thinking that you are smart and schooled, this seen in all your posts.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Well IdrA has changed alot the past 6 months, I wouldn't really call him BM, but more of a troll. Yet again I don't say that you shouldn't work with your sponsors, however It shouldn't get in the way of practice. I'm sure you know that naniwa have had quite a busy schedule?
Yep I did see nani joke about it, and I don't think u like it, and now you have the chance to give a little payback. Your initial post were something with "Oh naniwa, when will you learn", i'm sure you haven't forgotten this one?
Also i want you to think about what you said of performance not being this important. Do you wish for sc2 to become like BW? Korean domination? I think this would KILL the scene within a few years. We should cherish the "foreigners" who actually takes their practice seriously, instead of messing around with media and sponsors all the time (yes we do have a couple of media-sluts out there, no namedropping).
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Merz is obviously correct and has also thought this through a few times. There's nothing incredibly mindblowing or insulting to anyone in his post, its just how the world works. More or less.
But yes, Naniwa does not have to give interviews (unless it says so in his contract etc) but if someone with the same skill level as he would also be great with media, they would probably get paid more than he does. If he would rather take a lower pay and work less with press/media I am sure that can be accomplished and I am also sure that Naniwa is aware of that.
Btw, that last part was not a reply specifically to Merz but rather to this whole discussion which at times are confusing.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
A note to everyone out that: Merz is in the top list of players I have had the pleasure of interviewing, this guy is incredibly smart and such a nice guy
Sometimes that's not enough to convice us of what he is trying to sell...
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
A note to everyone out that: Merz is in the top list of players I have had the pleasure of interviewing, this guy is incredibly smart and such a nice guy
Sometimes that's not enough to convice us of what he is trying to sell...
Let's say this is what happened. This is entirely hypothetical, I'm not in the know at all.
coL picks NaNiwa up on 20 September. After that, he plays in BlizzCon 2011, DreamHack Winter and MLG Providence. He also plays in Code A and the Global Invitational. coL asks him to participate in the IPL 3 open qualifier, try to qualify for IEM Guangzhou and ESWC and participate in MLG Orlando. NaNiwa declines all four in favor of focusing on GSL and practice for Providence. Is that admirable behavior in your opinion?
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
1. Sociology is the study of groups, not occupations. 2. Again, he is correct because either telepathy or psychology would be correct in that case. 3. If you attempt to make other people look stupid it is best to at least use accurate statements when doing so.
1. Having an occupation makes you belong to a group and falls into sociology's field. Please get some notions of logic like one thing not excluding the other. 2. Psychology doesn't make you read minds, so he is not. 3. Exposing people just make them look the way they present themselves, also you're terrible at slandering.
Dude you are funny, and so smart.
Well telepathy doesn't actually exist and psychologists claim to understand peoples reasonings and motives for their actions so is there a reason why should I have suggested that you are a student in telepathy? Is there a logic to you whole premise? I said that your posts yell " I can read your mind", not that you actually can, but act ignorant like you could.
And again, your whole read on that guy was bad. So you are actually a bad student but ignorant in thinking that you are smart and schooled, this seen in all your posts.
Sarcasm and irony is pretty much the backup veil that someone puts on himself after having been publicly exposed. Still remains one question, why do you bother formulate words if you're not going to stand by them?
You used the formula "read someone's mind" yet I tell you that's the definition of telepathy not psychology, and psychology doesn't pretend doing that, so why do you have to keep up bringing this belief out your ass and put it in my own mouth. If reading someone's mind doesn't exist as you're saying now why do you claim in the first place that it is what I try and pretend doing? You tell me that I am ignorant now because I cannot read minds as it doesn't exist but that I think I can, but it is you that brought up the whole concept of reading minds and you that believe that it is what I can be labelled for.
Yet you call people students in psychology but you're the one here that claims to be able to say what is my read on someone and if that read is good or bad, before you try to argue about anything did you take care about not shooting in your own foot?
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Well IdrA has changed alot the past 6 months, I wouldn't really call him BM, but more of a troll. Yet again I don't say that you shouldn't work with your sponsors, however It shouldn't get in the way of practice. I'm sure you know that naniwa have had quite a busy schedule?
Yep I did see nani joke about it, and I don't think u like it, and now you have the chance to give a little payback. Your initial post were something with "Oh naniwa, when will you learn", i'm sure you haven't forgotten this one?
Also i want you to think about what you said of performance not being this important. Do you wish for sc2 to become like BW? Korean domination? I think this would KILL the scene within a few years. We should cherish the "foreigners" who actually takes their practice seriously, instead of messing around with media and sponsors all the time (yes we do have a couple of media-sluts out there, no namedropping).
Yes I get that but why do you feel the need to use it against me in a discussion here? If you mean by "not liking it" then yes, I don't like the fact that I can't play SC2 fulltime and practice as much as anyone else. I would love to play this game fulltime and give it my best shot at see how I measure up, so whenever someone comments on me not being as good as someone who's playing fulltime it stings, because there's nothing more I'd like to do now than just that.
My initial post as you call it, was in a different thread and you don't know what I mean by "oh nani when will you learn? ". Fyi It's irrelevant to what I stated in this thread and out of respect for Naniwa as a person I'm not going to go into details about that. Also I think it's funny that you seem to know more of how I feel about my former teammate than someone, me for example, who spent nearly 8 in the same team with the guy. I also said "I hope it works out in Quantic" and I really meant that, I'm not trying to wish nani misfortune.
Again you are misunderstanding because if you read my post I already stated and agreed that results will always matter the most (at least in my book) but there are other variables that needs to be taken into consideration. Your example of korean domination can be turned against you as well. Do you wish players to stop playing because they can't secure salaries or doesn't get to go to events? Because long term that's what's gonna happend if we don't cooperate with sponsors, they are funding all this.
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
1. Sociology is the study of groups, not occupations. 2. Again, he is correct because either telepathy or psychology would be correct in that case. 3. If you attempt to make other people look stupid it is best to at least use accurate statements when doing so.
1. Having an occupation makes you belong to a group and falls into sociology's field. Please get some notions of logic like one thing not excluding the other. 2. Psychology doesn't make you read minds, so he is not. 3. Exposing people just make them look the way they present themselves, also you're terrible at slandering.
Dude you are funny, and so smart.
Well telepathy doesn't actually exist and psychologists claim to understand peoples reasonings and motives for their actions so is there a reason why should I have suggested that you are a student in telepathy? Is there a logic to you whole premise? I said that your posts yell " I can read your mind", not that you actually can, but act ignorant like you could.
And again, your whole read on that guy was bad. So you are actually a bad student but ignorant in thinking that you are smart and schooled, this seen in all your posts.
Sarcasm and irony is pretty much the backup veil that someone puts on his own idiocy after it has been publicly exposed. Still remains one question, why do you bother formulate words if you're not going to stand by them?
You used the formula "read someone's mind" yet I tell you that's the definition of telepathy not psychology, and psychology doesn't pretend doing that, so why do you have to keep up bringing this belief out your ass and put it in my own mouth. If reading someone's mind doesn't exist as you're saying now why do you claim in the first place that it is what I try and pretend doing? You tell me that I am ignorant now because I cannot read minds as it doesn't exist but that I think I can, but it is you that brought up the whole concept of reading minds and you that believe that it is what I can be labelled for.
Yet you call people students in psychology but you're the one here that claims to be able to say what is my read on someone and if that read is good or bad, before you try to argue about anything did you take care about not shooting in your own foot?
So natural sarcasm does not exist? I need to be publicly exposed to be allowed to use it? Is this what they taught you there?
Psychology is the nearest thing a person can come to regarding reading minds and you made a profile of that person based on a phrase. You misinterpreted hard the subject but pretended to knew what his reasoning was.
When I accused you for acting like you could read minds I was exaggerating to show you how off you are in your judgment but you tried to take that literally just to make that a case and teach me a lesson that telepathy is what reads minds.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
You will not see his GSL performance, because he always gets stomped by mediocre Korean players.
No, he also got a code S spot for beating 3 players.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Well IdrA has changed alot the past 6 months, I wouldn't really call him BM, but more of a troll. Yet again I don't say that you shouldn't work with your sponsors, however It shouldn't get in the way of practice. I'm sure you know that naniwa have had quite a busy schedule?
Yep I did see nani joke about it, and I don't think u like it, and now you have the chance to give a little payback. Your initial post were something with "Oh naniwa, when will you learn", i'm sure you haven't forgotten this one?
Also i want you to think about what you said of performance not being this important. Do you wish for sc2 to become like BW? Korean domination? I think this would KILL the scene within a few years. We should cherish the "foreigners" who actually takes their practice seriously, instead of messing around with media and sponsors all the time (yes we do have a couple of media-sluts out there, no namedropping).
Yes I get that but why do you feel the need to use it against me in a discussion here? If you mean by "not liking it" then yes, I don't like the fact that I can't play SC2 fulltime and practice as much as anyone else. I would love to play this game fulltime and give it my best shot at see how I measure up, so whenever someone comments on me not being as good as someone who's playing fulltime it stings, because there's nothing more I'd like to do now than just that.
My initial post as you call it, was in a different thread and you don't know what I mean by "oh nani when will you learn? ". Fyi It's irrelevant to what I stated in this thread and out of respect for Naniwa as a person I'm not going to go into details about that. Also I think it's funny that you seem to know more of how I feel about my former teammate than someone, me for example, who spent nearly 8 in the same team with the guy. I also said "I hope it works out in Quantic" and I really meant that, I'm not trying to wish nani misfortune.
Again you are misunderstanding because if you read my post I already stated and agreed that results will always matter the most (at least in my book) but there are other variables that needs to be taken into consideration. Your example of korean domination can be turned against you as well. Do you wish players to stop playing because they can't secure salaries or doesn't get to go to events? Because long term that's what's gonna happend if we don't cooperate with sponsors, they are funding all this.
I thought you spent this last summer doing just this? However this is not really about you, so let's leave that discussion for a more proper time.
Yes, a diffrent thread, but really wouldn't you say that this one is just an extension of the other? It's the same topic, but featured a comment from nani. I have been given the impression that you didn't fancy him, please tell me i'm wrong if that's the case.
Well you did say that, and maybe you meant it. But so did Jason Lake, and he were obviously not pleased with this turn of events, and didn't mean what he said about wishing him good luck. So you could see why i would think you weren't very sincere either.
Okay, then i guess we agree on this point, but it didn't sound like this at all, but if you say this is the case, then we are on the same page.
My insight would go right over your head. I'd rather just enjoy the show.
Regards, Big boy
Not surprising to see that someone who thinks he's the bee's knees would also thinks his insight is flying.
You must be a student in psychology cause every post of yours yells "I can read your mind".
You must be a student in sociology cause you can read my occupation in my posts, yet a terrible one since you confused psychology with telepathy.
1. Sociology is the study of groups, not occupations. 2. Again, he is correct because either telepathy or psychology would be correct in that case. 3. If you attempt to make other people look stupid it is best to at least use accurate statements when doing so.
1. Having an occupation makes you belong to a group and falls into sociology's field. Please get some notions of logic like one thing not excluding the other. 2. Psychology doesn't make you read minds, so he is not. 3. Exposing people just make them look the way they present themselves, also you're terrible at slandering.
Dude you are funny, and so smart.
Well telepathy doesn't actually exist and psychologists claim to understand peoples reasonings and motives for their actions so is there a reason why should I have suggested that you are a student in telepathy? Is there a logic to you whole premise? I said that your posts yell " I can read your mind", not that you actually can, but act ignorant like you could.
And again, your whole read on that guy was bad. So you are actually a bad student but ignorant in thinking that you are smart and schooled, this seen in all your posts.
Sarcasm and irony is pretty much the backup veil that someone puts on himself after having been publicly exposed. Still remains one question, why do you bother formulate words if you're not going to stand by them?
You used the formula "read someone's mind" yet I tell you that's the definition of telepathy not psychology, and psychology doesn't pretend doing that, so why do you have to keep up bringing this belief out your ass and put it in my own mouth. If reading someone's mind doesn't exist as you're saying now why do you claim in the first place that it is what I try and pretend doing? You tell me that I am ignorant now because I cannot read minds as it doesn't exist but that I think I can, but it is you that brought up the whole concept of reading minds and you that believe that it is what I can be labelled for.
Yet you call people students in psychology but you're the one here that claims to be able to say what is my read on someone and if that read is good or bad, before you try to argue about anything did you take care about not shooting in your own foot?
No amount of circle reasoning and backwards logic can hide the fact that you are quite unintelligent.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Well IdrA has changed alot the past 6 months, I wouldn't really call him BM, but more of a troll. Yet again I don't say that you shouldn't work with your sponsors, however It shouldn't get in the way of practice. I'm sure you know that naniwa have had quite a busy schedule?
Yep I did see nani joke about it, and I don't think u like it, and now you have the chance to give a little payback. Your initial post were something with "Oh naniwa, when will you learn", i'm sure you haven't forgotten this one?
Also i want you to think about what you said of performance not being this important. Do you wish for sc2 to become like BW? Korean domination? I think this would KILL the scene within a few years. We should cherish the "foreigners" who actually takes their practice seriously, instead of messing around with media and sponsors all the time (yes we do have a couple of media-sluts out there, no namedropping).
Yes I get that but why do you feel the need to use it against me in a discussion here? If you mean by "not liking it" then yes, I don't like the fact that I can't play SC2 fulltime and practice as much as anyone else. I would love to play this game fulltime and give it my best shot at see how I measure up, so whenever someone comments on me not being as good as someone who's playing fulltime it stings, because there's nothing more I'd like to do now than just that.
My initial post as you call it, was in a different thread and you don't know what I mean by "oh nani when will you learn? ". Fyi It's irrelevant to what I stated in this thread and out of respect for Naniwa as a person I'm not going to go into details about that. Also I think it's funny that you seem to know more of how I feel about my former teammate than someone, me for example, who spent nearly 8 in the same team with the guy. I also said "I hope it works out in Quantic" and I really meant that, I'm not trying to wish nani misfortune.
Again you are misunderstanding because if you read my post I already stated and agreed that results will always matter the most (at least in my book) but there are other variables that needs to be taken into consideration. Your example of korean domination can be turned against you as well. Do you wish players to stop playing because they can't secure salaries or doesn't get to go to events? Because long term that's what's gonna happend if we don't cooperate with sponsors, they are funding all this.
I thought you spent this last summer doing just this? However this is not really about you, so let's leave that discussion for a more proper time.
Yes, a diffrent thread, but really wouldn't you say that this one is just an extension of the other? It's the same topic, but featured a comment from nani. I have been given the impression that you didn't fancy him, please tell me i'm wrong if that's the case.
Well you did say that, and maybe you meant it. But so did Jason Lake, and he were obviously not pleased with this turn of events, and didn't mean what he said about wishing him good luck. So you could see why i would think you weren't very sincere either.
Okay, then i guess we agree on this point, but it didn't sound like this at all, but if you say this is the case, then we are on the same page.
I did, and I feel like I showed signs of improvement both at DH & MLG & and at the end of august at i43. Sadly that was only 2,5 months and 3 weeks of those were spent travelling/being at events. I would have loooooooved to continue doing it because it was just awesome overall, but I've been in Uni since the end of august.
On December 10 2011 09:20 Dexington wrote: Naniwa beat 3 players at MLG to get second. The system let him get that far. I'd bet a lot of money if he had to go through that open bracket like Leenock did, he would have never came close to that place.
He beat Nestea in the most controversial series ever, Huk who hasn't won a PvP in ages and DRG. Then got stomped by Leenock.
I don't know why he gets so much hype. Can't wait to see his GSL performance.
You will not see his GSL performance, because he always gets stomped by mediocre Korean players.
No, he also got a code S spot for beating 3 players.
Oh come on! It's not like he was magically given a high MLG seed by the fairy godmother. He went through the open bracket once, just like Leenock (At Dallas, not dropping a single game until the final, in case you missed it). Yes, the korean presence was not the same then, but after that he also performed consistently well in the following MLG's, which earned him the high seed. He beat Nestea after having beating him the night before, controversial has nothing to do with skill. Anyone who saw Naniwas games in Providence knows that he was on fire that whole tournament. Leenock found and used the weaknes of his build, but apart from those games, noone in their right mind can deny that Naniwa earned his second place in MLG Providence, and the Code S spot that it meant.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Well IdrA has changed alot the past 6 months, I wouldn't really call him BM, but more of a troll. Yet again I don't say that you shouldn't work with your sponsors, however It shouldn't get in the way of practice. I'm sure you know that naniwa have had quite a busy schedule?
Yep I did see nani joke about it, and I don't think u like it, and now you have the chance to give a little payback. Your initial post were something with "Oh naniwa, when will you learn", i'm sure you haven't forgotten this one?
Also i want you to think about what you said of performance not being this important. Do you wish for sc2 to become like BW? Korean domination? I think this would KILL the scene within a few years. We should cherish the "foreigners" who actually takes their practice seriously, instead of messing around with media and sponsors all the time (yes we do have a couple of media-sluts out there, no namedropping).
Yes I get that but why do you feel the need to use it against me in a discussion here? If you mean by "not liking it" then yes, I don't like the fact that I can't play SC2 fulltime and practice as much as anyone else. I would love to play this game fulltime and give it my best shot at see how I measure up, so whenever someone comments on me not being as good as someone who's playing fulltime it stings, because there's nothing more I'd like to do now than just that.
My initial post as you call it, was in a different thread and you don't know what I mean by "oh nani when will you learn? ". Fyi It's irrelevant to what I stated in this thread and out of respect for Naniwa as a person I'm not going to go into details about that. Also I think it's funny that you seem to know more of how I feel about my former teammate than someone, me for example, who spent nearly 8 in the same team with the guy. I also said "I hope it works out in Quantic" and I really meant that, I'm not trying to wish nani misfortune.
Again you are misunderstanding because if you read my post I already stated and agreed that results will always matter the most (at least in my book) but there are other variables that needs to be taken into consideration. Your example of korean domination can be turned against you as well. Do you wish players to stop playing because they can't secure salaries or doesn't get to go to events? Because long term that's what's gonna happend if we don't cooperate with sponsors, they are funding all this.
I had so much rage reading this I had to comment because you were being so poignant with all your points and he just refused to acknowledge or deal with anything you said, instead deciding to pick and choose what he wants to try and pull apart and ignore anything that contradicts his point. On top of that who probably has a better grasp of the pro gamer/team relationship... ninjahoe or digntias.merz....hmm
I died a little bit inside.
It's a shame because even though you're just stating an opinion--a well informed one at that--it devolved into a silly argument and you can never REALLY win an argument on the internet.
On December 10 2011 20:25 resilve wrote: Naniwa is exactly the kind of player that needs to be supported by the fans.What matters in this game is how good you are at starcraft2, not how good you are at blogging or replying to forum posts.
A true champion will often look heartless and cuthroat when he makes moves that are for the good of his career, and it is right that he should do so.
This is wrong though. Of course skill and results should always speak the highest, but players need to realize there's more to being a professional gamer than just playing the game. Your skill alone got you to where you are now, and it's not like you will fall off the map because you help out your sponsors, your team, by doing different sponsor events and such. Just look at IdrA. He's still one of the best Zergs outside of korea and he's still putting up results, yet he streams, he even acts in commercials.
If you look at any other sport this is true there as well. You see the top sportstars doing promotional videos and commercials for their sponsors, because in the end, they are the ones writing your checks.
It should be a mutual cooperation where your team helps you out i.e sends you to events, pays you a salary, and you help them out by helping out with sponsor stuff, doing PR things for your team etc. Saying "Well I''ll simply play and you'll get exposure whenever I go to events I guess" doesn't nearly make their investment worth it, and this goes for any player.
Actually you are way off target. Do you really think every pro soccer player is mr niceguy, doing promotions allt the time? Nope, and if they do any, they get massively paid. Many pro soccer players don't even do interviews. Ever.
I think your comment is just a case of "the mascot" still being a sad panda
No I'm not way off target and where did I stay ever pro soccer player is mr niceguy, and why do you feel the need taking cheap shots at me when my situation is not even compareable to Naniwas in any way?
I stated the "top sportstars" =/= every pro soccer player. Just like in SC2, there are the selected few that really are superstars while the rest are considered as only "good" and decent (Usually due to the fact that the super stars are the most skilled and have the highest results). I'm not saying people like CatZ or iNcoNtroL should get more recongnition than someone like Naniwa, what I'm trying to say is you can't go into professional gaming thinking you should only have to play the game and that is that. There is a lot more to it, and I pointed at IdrA as an example of someone who's both one of the most feared progamers outside of korea, and someone who works closely with his team & sponsors.
Of course they get massively paid, that's why they do it. A lot of SC2 players fail to realize this correlation though. The closer you work with sponsors & your team = better likehood of you getting more money.
Obviously i meant soccer superstars, my bad. You took the comparison to real sports, and i entered the discussion. The matter of fact is there is lots of soccer superstars, and many of them don't even do interviews. Take Zlatan for example. He does interviews, but is he always nice to the reporters? I would definitly say that Zlatan is really BM, however, he is still a superstar, and he is loved by so many people. When ever he makes something questionable it's forgotten the next day.
Conclusion: Being a bit BM doesn't make you ineligible of being a superstar.
I don't question that being a good guy for the sponsors sake etc is a bad thing, i too would try and make it as good as possible for my team sponsors. This doesn't mean that one should need to be a thousand times better player just to be on even terms with this "friendlier guy".
Get it?
And regarding me pulling cheap shots. First of all, I'd say you are looking to pull cheap shots on your former team mate, by "teaching him a lesson", as it looks from your former posts in this thread. And it wouldn't be a cheap shot unless you felt it was true yourself.
You are missing my point, and I'm not even arguing that Naniwa should have to be 1000 better than anyone who handles the media well. I've never stated being a bit BM makes you ineligble of being a superstar, again look at IdrA. Your behaviour in general, even if seen as BM, does not stop you from working with your sponsors and your management.
Reason why I said cheap shots is because you've obviously seen Nani joke around about that while he was in dignitas and now you are just trying to use it against me, while it has no relevance at all to the discussion. If you can't discuss without refraining from personal attacks then maybe you should just be quiet.
I'm not trying to "out naniwa" or anything here, my initial post was a response to someone saying results is the only thing that should matter. I was just trying to make a case why in the current state of esports, results is not the only thing that matters. Also coupled by the fact that having been to x amounts events and talked to other progamers I've noticed a lot of them just wants to play and doesn't really feel like they need to give anything else back to their organisation, which I don't think is the direction we want esports to go, because it won't be sustainable. Again not dropping names or targetting anyone specific.
Well IdrA has changed alot the past 6 months, I wouldn't really call him BM, but more of a troll. Yet again I don't say that you shouldn't work with your sponsors, however It shouldn't get in the way of practice. I'm sure you know that naniwa have had quite a busy schedule?
Yep I did see nani joke about it, and I don't think u like it, and now you have the chance to give a little payback. Your initial post were something with "Oh naniwa, when will you learn", i'm sure you haven't forgotten this one?
Also i want you to think about what you said of performance not being this important. Do you wish for sc2 to become like BW? Korean domination? I think this would KILL the scene within a few years. We should cherish the "foreigners" who actually takes their practice seriously, instead of messing around with media and sponsors all the time (yes we do have a couple of media-sluts out there, no namedropping).
Yes I get that but why do you feel the need to use it against me in a discussion here? If you mean by "not liking it" then yes, I don't like the fact that I can't play SC2 fulltime and practice as much as anyone else. I would love to play this game fulltime and give it my best shot at see how I measure up, so whenever someone comments on me not being as good as someone who's playing fulltime it stings, because there's nothing more I'd like to do now than just that.
My initial post as you call it, was in a different thread and you don't know what I mean by "oh nani when will you learn? ". Fyi It's irrelevant to what I stated in this thread and out of respect for Naniwa as a person I'm not going to go into details about that. Also I think it's funny that you seem to know more of how I feel about my former teammate than someone, me for example, who spent nearly 8 in the same team with the guy. I also said "I hope it works out in Quantic" and I really meant that, I'm not trying to wish nani misfortune.
Again you are misunderstanding because if you read my post I already stated and agreed that results will always matter the most (at least in my book) but there are other variables that needs to be taken into consideration. Your example of korean domination can be turned against you as well. Do you wish players to stop playing because they can't secure salaries or doesn't get to go to events? Because long term that's what's gonna happend if we don't cooperate with sponsors, they are funding all this.
I thought you spent this last summer doing just this? However this is not really about you, so let's leave that discussion for a more proper time.
Yes, a diffrent thread, but really wouldn't you say that this one is just an extension of the other? It's the same topic, but featured a comment from nani. I have been given the impression that you didn't fancy him, please tell me i'm wrong if that's the case.
Well you did say that, and maybe you meant it. But so did Jason Lake, and he were obviously not pleased with this turn of events, and didn't mean what he said about wishing him good luck. So you could see why i would think you weren't very sincere either.
Okay, then i guess we agree on this point, but it didn't sound like this at all, but if you say this is the case, then we are on the same page.
I did, and I feel like I showed signs of improvement both at DH & MLG & and at the end of august at i43. Sadly that was only 2,5 months and 3 weeks of those were spent travelling/being at events. I would have loooooooved to continue doing it because it was just awesome overall, but I've been in Uni since the end of august.
Okay glad we are on the same page then .
Ok, i can't say i followed any of those so i don't really know any results, i just had it in the back of my head.
Why don't you take a break from UNI then? I have a dear friend who last year decided to take a brak from UNI in order to focus on poker, and move to Australia with his brother and me. He studied civil engineering, and this was 3 years in, so you have every possibility to fulfil your dream. Go for it!
Jason "1" Lake, coL's owner, while having one of the biggest hearts in the eSports community, is also very misguided. He is one of the reasons CS 1.6 basically died (he spearheaded the move to source when the CGS came around). Has tried to build a team with money rather than hard work and has made some ridiculous statements. I am not surprised he would value exposure over results when it comes to SC2.
The problem is that the top management at coL has no background in BW, SC2 or the Korean scene.
So basically the reason he left was because CatZ was paid the same amount as him? Lol... thats ridiculous. CatZ is a personality, Naniwa just plays the game and has an awkward personality... we only like him because hes a good protoss...
If he wants to be known be likeable so people want to talk about you. Or be like Deezer and Combatex so people know you because you're so fiercely hated. Don't be the inbetween mediocre personality pro like you have been. Being awkward on camera because you don't know how to act because of sponsor issues and other things is just ridiculous. Get out of your shell.
If you hide in the shadows you will not be known, get your image out there and sell yourself. If you want to go solely on skill you better be winning every tournament, 2nd place is not enough.
This is Mark Ferraz, Founder & CEO of Quantic. I would like to officially state that Complexity's statements have been nothing but truthful about the official communications relating to the transfer. Jason Lake was the first person to approach me about the Naniwa trade. That being said, I believe NaNi was speaking with SaSe about the possibility at the same time and that has created the confusion in this situation. Complexity handled this matter as professionally as possible from my stand point and the numerous posts slinging mud in their direction are misguided. I hope this clears up the situation and everyone can now move on.
On December 11 2011 03:43 Shaok wrote: So basically the reason he left was because CatZ was paid the same amount as him? Lol... thats ridiculous. CatZ is a personality, Naniwa just plays the game and has an awkward personality... we only like him because hes a good protoss...
If he wants to be known be likeable so people want to talk about you. Or be like Deezer and Combatex so people know you because you're so fiercely hated. Don't be the inbetween mediocre personality pro like you have been. Being awkward on camera because you don't know how to act because of sponsor issues and other things is just ridiculous. Get out of your shell.
If you hide in the shadows you will not be known, get your image out there and sell yourself. If you want to go solely on skill you better be winning every tournament, 2nd place is not enough.
The guy needs to get social coaching though. You can't market a player like Naniwa if you are aiming at a general audience. I'm not good with words but I believe Sir Scoots explained it best in a recent interview at NASL.
This link goes directly to the important part of the video. Sir Scoots explains why EG was interested in Huk. The examples he gives are important. It's not just about results anymore. Not since SC2 has been blowing up the way it has.
On December 11 2011 03:55 QuanticCinergy wrote: This is Mark Ferraz, Founder & CEO of Quantic. I would like to officially state that Complexity's statements have been nothing but truthful about the official communications relating to the transfer. Jason Lake was the first person to approach me about the Naniwa trade. That being said, I believe NaNi was speaking with SaSe about the possibility at the same time and that has created the confusion in this situation. Complexity handled this matter as professionally as possible from my stand point and the numerous posts slinging mud in their direction are misguided. I hope this clears up the situation and everyone can now move on.
it would go a long way for you to reiterate this on reddit, if you haven't already.
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Thanks for posting your thoughts This thread needs less speculation
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Thanks for the post CatZ. This just again confirms that skill is not all that takes from a player to become an asset for a team.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I think he just meant they value exposure and community stuff more than actual results. Might not have been the best analogy.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
Dude, that wasn't his point -.-
My point was that if Catz made it sound bad maybe it really is bad.
On December 11 2011 04:00 Commentdire wrote: I respect Naniwa.
The guy needs to get social coaching though. You can't market a player like Naniwa if you are aiming at a general audience.
This exact philosophy among other things is why western esports has been a consistent failure for decades and why it's unsustainable past the initial bubble.
Everyone who thinks anything built solely on marketing and exposure can last long term is being delusional.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
you clearly love the drama, read what i wrote as you choose and make as big a deal of it as you want, this is my opinion and I think naniwa's well aware of all of this, I don't think he is a bad person because of it but I think changing certain attitudes will help him not just in his gaming career but for the rest of his life, so sure, you can be the cool dood that 'supports' him and tells him "hey johan don't listen to anyone, you're doing everything right, just be yourself, the world must adapt to you not the other way arround and the 6 or so teams that you've joined since the game started were all wrong' you're a complete idiot. fact is he needs to change certain attitudes or he's fucked, so im not trying to sugarcoat anything, im being as honest as naniwa usually is, because he NEEDS to adapt to some extend in order to succeed and get what he deserves. that's all, im not commenting anymore on this thread, unfortunately there's too many idiots like yourself trying to cause friction and sound smart at all costs, fact is you don't know me, you don't know naniwa, you don't know complexity, you don't know qxg, you know what you read, and form your opinions from that, so more reading, less judging.
On December 11 2011 04:47 bounca wrote: seems like naniwa wants more than 3x catz salary
I don't see a problem with this, to be honest.
One guy is known for piggybacking viewers off Destiny, other is known for owning the top of the top koreans. Clearly, the latter should be getting (wayyyy) more money?
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view.
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
On December 11 2011 04:00 Commentdire wrote: I respect Naniwa.
The guy needs to get social coaching though. You can't market a player like Naniwa if you are aiming at a general audience.
This exact philosophy among other things is why western esports has been a consistent failure for decades and why it's unsustainable past the initial bubble.
Everyone who thinks anything built solely on marketing and exposure can last long term is being delusional.
Anyone who thinks anything built completely without exposure will last long-term is delusional. Just because we don't see all the media crap that Korean pros do doesn't mean they don't do it. Hell, Boxer just released an autobiography. They all have endorsements, they do commercials, it's all the same crap. Acting like you want eSports to completely opt out of that side of things is ridiculous. There's no pro gaming without money.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view.
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
What next we gonna out people if they homosexual and difficult to work with in a team house?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
you seem to live in this pretend world where we should all be nice and never say anything difficult or hard and just shove our heads in the sand and blindly accept everything people do without any sort of criticism whatsoever.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
You rewrote CatZ's message to make it sound really offensive and then got mad at him for being an asshole? Sometimes the "sugar coating" you talk about is essential to what you want to convey.
On December 11 2011 04:00 Commentdire wrote: I respect Naniwa.
The guy needs to get social coaching though. You can't market a player like Naniwa if you are aiming at a general audience.
This exact philosophy among other things is why western esports has been a consistent failure for decades and why it's unsustainable past the initial bubble.
Everyone who thinks anything built solely on marketing and exposure can last long term is being delusional.
Did you read my post? Because that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying it's about a total package. Just like SirScoots describes it in the Youtube video I linked.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
you seem to live in this pretend world where we should all be nice and never say anything difficult or hard and just shove our heads in the sand and blindly accept everything people do without any sort of criticism whatsoever.
grow up.
You grow up. What about if someone knows all you personaly stuff about you problems in the world and post it on a public forum wtf. Its totally crossing the line
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view.
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
Some people will cry over anything when their favorite player is involved. We all can see that Naniwa really is how CatZ described him to be but if Catz sais it as it is we must burn him. Lol.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
From what he said in the interview i don't think he was refering to salary when he compared the 2 of you.
Edit: I'm way to tired for this, just noticed u knew that already. zzzzzzzz
So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view.
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
What next we gonna out people if they homosexual and difficult to work with in a team house?
Well, some people do. Thus, what Catz wrote will be helpful for those people that do. And considering how many people got pissed because of an anonymous source, it seems like Catz saying to right out rather than through 3rd parties is better. Just because you don't care about the truth doesn't mean other people don't as well. And your perception of what should or should not be written on a public forum isn't the same as everyone else's.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view.
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
Some people will cry over anything when their favorite player is involved. We all can see that Naniwa really is how CatZ described him to be but if Catz sais it as it is we must burn him. Lol.
Favorite player? I dont like Naniwa at all but posting personally stuff about his mental state and his problems its just totally out of line.
How do you think Naniwa is feeling right now reading this shit?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
Catz didn't say anything wrong at all, wtf do you think friends shouldn't be entirely honest with you?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
you seem to live in this pretend world where we should all be nice and never say anything difficult or hard and just shove our heads in the sand and blindly accept everything people do without any sort of criticism whatsoever.
grow up.
You grow up. What about if someone knows all you personaly stuff about you problems in the world and post it on a public forum wtf. Its totally crossing the line
Okay. For the last 25 pages people have been sitting praising naniwa for his honesty and truthfulness and all this other shit just because of what he said and his side all of a sudden is "the truth of the situation" because he said it.
You blindly accept it. You happily let him carry on doing whatever he wants however he wants no matter what the actual truth is. And then when that fantasy comes crashing down you call the person bringing you to reality harsh and mean and unprofessional and bm and dramatic...because they interupted your dream.
If i was acting like a stupid ass kid, yeah, i would HOPE someone would point it out to me. and i would hope that i would bother to listen.
and no, it's not crossing a line. if he went out of his way to just do it for no reason, yeah, it'd be totally innappropriate. but for the sake of bringing the last 25 pages of fanboy blindness and blatant stupidity a little bit of light and clarity?
no. it's really not. just like the post that's supposedly from the head of qxg pointing out that naniwa didnt approach them first (effectively calling naniwa a liar if you really want to look at it harshly) is.
I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
How does naniwa have more cred than a prof organization and other, less BM, progamers like Catz? Because you like him he must be right? I don't have any real opinion on the guy (he is a good player), but based on what we know about him he is far from "presumed innocent." Rather, it should be the opposite.
On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote: So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
Catz didn't say anything wrong at all, wtf do you think friends shouldn't be entirely honest with you?
Not on a fucking public forum he could have emailed him this shit. Wtf is wrong with you people. Shall i buy a detective and find out everything about you. You can find dirt on everyone posting it on a public forum is just mean
On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote: So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
Not on a fucking public forum he could have emailed him this shit
The only reason Catz posted here is to say his opinion to the public forum, not to Naniwa. He wanted to transmit us his honest feelings about the matter. I for one can handle the truth, you sir can't. Grow up!
On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote: So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
actually, his results were the marketing
just like it would be with people like naniwa if non-korean teams stopped trying to push t-shirts and streaming over getting good
The only reason Catz posted here is to say his opinion to the public forum, not to Naniwa. He wanted to transmit us his honest feelings about the matter. I for one can handle the truth, you sir can't. Grow up!
It's not a question about what's true and what's not, it's about whether it's socially appropriate to post stuff like this on a public forum. Remember, Catz himself mentioned how sometimes being totally honest isn't the best choice from a social relations point of view.
Whether it's appropriate in this case is something that - I'd hope - only Catz can judge based on his relationships with Naniwa and given the circumstances.
I thank Col.Catz for posting his opinion. It was what I thought even before he posted, but a direct confirmation helps.
Again, yet again, Naniwa doesn't really know how to act maturely (even in this interview). I said it last time when Col published stupid interview with him where he BMs pretty much every respected pro player he mentions (NesTea got the worst review obv). Even back then, I was shocked how he was indifferent, and almost uncomplimentary to the MVP guys, DRG in particular, while being a part of Col.MVP collaboration.
What does he do now? He now openly comments about MVP. And even Col themselves. The irony is that Col seemed to encourage his petulance with that interview, now they are the receiving end of an interview from a guy who could hardly be called a professional even if he worked at McDonalds.
There's absolutely no doubt that he will be "let go" from Quantic Gaming, and he will have things to say about StarTale and QIM. No doubt. And we will see this CEO of QIM appear here and offer his viewpoint, in the same shoes as Col guys are doing right now. I am amazed that all these QIM's and Col's don't have a person to go tell Naniwa to be more professional in his time with their team, interviews included. As a clause in a contract. Oh well, this will bite in their ass soon.
On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote: So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
It's quite a huge difference to get good results and then market yourself than somehow trying to do it the other way. No other game has ever had players trying to market themselves before being at the absolute top so this is one of the reasons why the SC2 is quite the joke right now.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Maybe the truth hurts?
I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there.
The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view.
I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good?
Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
Some people will cry over anything when their favorite player is involved. We all can see that Naniwa really is how CatZ described him to be but if Catz sais it as it is we must burn him. Lol.
Favorite player? I dont like Naniwa at all but posting personally stuff about his mental state and his problems its just totally out of line.
How do you think Naniwa is feeling right now reading this shit?
He would just say, "It's okay", and then he would don his armor and sword, and FUS RO DAH at Nestea's Roaches. NORDIWA!
On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote: So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
It's quite a huge difference to get good results and then market yourself than somehow trying to do it the other way. No other game has ever had players trying to market themselves before being at the absolute top so this is one of the reasons why the SC2 is quite the joke right now.
But the fans (we) are to blame for that, you do realize that right? If we stopped watching Destinys stream when someone better is streaming things would be different. But we feed on drama and paparazzi. Lame. For instance now Destiny has 4.8k and Bomber 1,8.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
Catz didn't say anything wrong at all, wtf do you think friends shouldn't be entirely honest with you?
Not on a fucking public forum he could have emailed him this shit. Wtf is wrong with you people. Shall i buy a detective and find out everything about you. You can find dirt on everyone posting it on a public forum is just mean
it has everything to do with the current situation so I don't see anything wrong with it, you have to be waaaaaaaaay insecure to actually care about shit like that, he didn't commit any crime, all catz is saying is pretty much that naniwa is hard to work with cuz his social skills are.. well not really that good
On December 11 2011 05:06 On_Slaught wrote: I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
So what was wrong with his stay in dignitas throughout an entire year :o? I will support Naniwa regardless of if he leaves 500 teams. I'm a fan of Naniwa because he strives to be the very best, and is willing to sacrifice everything to get there. If that means team hopping between every single sc2 team, so be it, he still has my support.
On December 10 2011 09:09 shabby wrote: Whatever floats his boat, really. If this is better for him in his quest to become the best, then it's the right choice.
yea agree with you on that, he got to do what he feels will give him the best chance of winning.
...And as long as it comports with (his) contracts.
Drama is awesome. Now it will surely get mentioned on State of the Game, which will create more drama in that thread, which will create funny posts to read.
Listen guys seriously. Why all the arguing? Both parts got exactly what they wanted, naniwa got to leave and Col got to see him leave. Its a win win situation so who cares about who made the first move or whatever, in the end it doesnt matter just say glhf to both parts and be done.
On December 11 2011 05:06 On_Slaught wrote: I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
So what was wrong with his stay in dignitas throughout an entire year :o? I will support Naniwa regardless of if he leaves 500 teams. I'm a fan of Naniwa because he strives to be the very best, and is willing to sacrifice everything to get there. If that means team hopping between every single sc2 team, so be it, he still has my support.
When Dignitas stated they weren't going to renew Naniwa's contract, Odee didn't seem like he was particularly pleased with Naniwa's stay with them. He has a history of being difficult to work with and his departure from Dignitas, while better than some of his previous departures, still had a little negativity around it.
I'm not trying to take a colossal dump on Naniwa here, but it's been pretty thoroughly established that he's a difficult person to work with and his team history(including Dignitas, though better than some previous departures) confirms this. It's fine to be a fan of the guy, but when he gets removed from a team or leaves I honestly can't turn around and place the fault on the team simply because of Naniwa's terrible reputation. I don't see this as being unfair at all because this is a reputation that Naniwa himself established through a series of bad decisions, something he himself has to correct or just continue on with if he doesn't give a fuck.
We all know that he was BM in his past, however it is clearly visible that he has changed. To anybody who says MLG, I suggest to watch his 2nd video from MLG where he explains everything. Besides I really do not care in which team he is and how he got there, because as long as he keeps playing I am happy.
He's an athlete not a spokesperson. Obviously you get frustrated, obviously you make dumb moves. That's why you have a team. Complexity was a shitty team as they didn't help Naniwa where he needed help.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Holy shit. So reckless. Didn't know you were an asshole, guess I'll skip your stream next time.
He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with
Do you honestly want this out so badly that you're typing it in a public forum? Do you have a grudge on naniwa or why are you doing this? Perhaps it's you who has poor social skills? All respect lost for you unless somebody hacked your account.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Under this.. interesting attempt to sugar coar all the BM you just spewed at him I personally find you way out of line. Not even going to detail the irony found in this post as well, if it was intended or not.
On December 11 2011 06:00 zanga wrote: NaNiwa got what he wanted. Col made their deal with Quantic and got what they wanted. Quantic got NaNiwa, which is what they wanted.
= Everyone got what they want ON GOOD TERMS. No need to theorycraft anymore.
NaNiwa fighting :D!
This ^^ is all there really is to say folks. SaSe and NaNi talk all the time. We are refocusing on building the most engaging world-class team for the fans and players alike. Kim (SaSe) mentioned NaNi, and we had considered approaching coL about it, but they reached out first. It really doesn't matter, because if the deal wasn't basically meant to happen, it never would have. Obviously, both coL and NaNi were ready for something new, and we (Quantic) had both the motivation and the means to complete the transaction. It happened quickly, easily, and professionally, because it was in everyone's best interest.
As far as the drama goes, catz, and whatever, so long as you all are enjoying yourselves, it's all good. Talk on, keep watching, and don't forget to support the brands and products that support the eSports ecosystem of players, teams and venues you enjoy. With your continued engagement, love and support, none of this would even be possible. THANK YOU!
This thread is getting blown way out of proportion. The end result is for the benefit of both sides. Nani was honest about his take on the situation. Catz was honest on his view of nani. Since when is it a bad thing to voice your opinion? (other than trying to martyr yourself or making a smartass comment).
It is the same for them if CatZ hits 5k viewers on his stream or that I place 2nd at an MLG and I did not agree with that point of view
Wow. That really says a lot about coL, their goals, and why they don't produce any results as a team. I mean, yeah, if you make your living off SC2 you're technically a professional, but this kind of outlook doesn't mean anything as far as I'm concerned.
The best teams should encourage quality of play first and fan interaction/marketing second. Anything else doesn't deserve attention. IMO it's a terrible shame that Catz gets more viewers than some other players who stream.
Edit: Don't take this comment as pro-Nani. It isn't. His being a childish prick is entirely separate from the fact that some teams (in this case, coL) don't seem to place a heavy emphasis on results. EG had a phase where they seemed to do the same, but since then they made some high profile acquisitions and established a practice house.
Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all. I don't think it's a secret that Nani's personal life hasn't been all sunshine and roses, and that probably has had an affect on who he is today.
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all. I don't think it's a secret that Nani's personal life hasn't been all sunshine and roses, and that probably has had an affect on who he is today.
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Now i can't tell how much of what you write is true, but most of it just confirms my view of Naniwa based on his past. Glad you wrote this and don't worry if people flame you, you just gave your honest opinion.
On December 11 2011 06:00 zanga wrote: NaNiwa got what he wanted. Col made their deal with Quantic and got what they wanted. Quantic got NaNiwa, which is what they wanted.
= Everyone got what they want ON GOOD TERMS. No need to theorycraft anymore.
NaNiwa fighting :D!
This ^^ is all there really is to say folks. SaSe and NaNi talk all the time. We are refocusing on building the most engaging world-class team for the fans and players alike. Kim (SaSe) mentioned NaNi, and we had considered approaching coL about it, but they reached out first. It really doesn't matter, because if the deal wasn't basically meant to happen, it never would have. Obviously, both coL and NaNi were ready for something new, and we (Quantic) had both the motivation and the means to complete the transaction. It happened quickly, easily, and professionally, because it was in everyone's best interest.
As far as the drama goes, catz, and whatever, so long as you all are enjoying yourselves, it's all good. Talk on, keep watching, and don't forget to support the brands and products that support the eSports ecosystem of players, teams and venues you enjoy. With your continued engagement, love and support, none of this would even be possible. THANK YOU!
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Scumbag Catz. Tells Naniwa to learn how to behave, communicate in a mannered way and when it's better not to say anything. Talks about all of Naniwas flaws/quite personal issues in a public internet forum, known for it's love for drama.
I like how people are butthurt about the post Catz made, when Naniwa took the first snide shot in the interview. Catz is only saying what everyone knows is true
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is:
"I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole."
On December 11 2011 06:59 epij wrote: Scumbag Catz. Tells Naniwa to learn how to behave, communicate in a mannered way and when it's better not to say anything. Talks about all of Naniwas flaws/quite personal issues in a public internet forum, known for it's love for drama.
Huh? every1 knows those flaws by watching Nani behave.
On December 11 2011 06:59 epij wrote: Scumbag Catz. Tells Naniwa to learn how to behave, communicate in a mannered way and when it's better not to say anything. Talks about all of Naniwas flaws/quite personal issues in a public internet forum, known for it's love for drama.
Huh? every1 knows those flaws by watching Nani behave.
Just because everyone on the internet seems to know Naniwa inside-out, doesn't justify a former teammate to talk about such personal stuff.
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is:
"I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole."
Seems kind of stupid to me... but whatever.
It started out with them attempted to correct misinformation. Naniwa mentioned additional factors such as money and priorities in his interview, which is what Catz responded to. Specifically the quote about Catz getting 5000 viewers being comparable to Naniwa's MLG finish. Catz also affirmed that Naniwa gets paid around three times as much as him and would likely get paid more if not for his attitude. All of this is relevant and a direct response to some of the stuff Naniwa said in his interview.
It's not like Naniwa is coming in and saying, "Well, I'm really excited about being with Sase and look forward to performing in Code S-" and then Complexity just comes in and yells, "Naniwa is a asshole!". They're responding directly to what he's saying.
On December 11 2011 07:05 arfyron wrote: The bias on this forum is amazing. Nani says something untrue about coL and catz but catz is BM for responding.
How do you know that it's untrue? Because coL and catz say it? Is that not bias?
On December 11 2011 07:01 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:56 jnsjr wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is:
"I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole."
Seems kind of stupid to me... but whatever.
It started out with them attempted to correct misinformation. Naniwa mentioned additional factors such as money and priorities in his interview, which is what Catz responded to. Specifically the quote about Catz getting 5000 viewers being comparable to Naniwa's MLG finish. Catz also affirmed that Naniwa gets paid around three times as much as him and would likely get paid more if not for his attitude. All of this is relevant and a direct response to some of the stuff Naniwa said in his interview.
It's not like Naniwa is coming in and saying, "Well, I'm really excited about being with Sase and look forward to performing in Code S-" and then Complexity just comes in and yells, "Naniwa is a asshole!". They're responding directly to what he's saying.
Well... not quite. I read Nani's original statement, and it said nothing negative about coL at all. Then the coL guy comes out and basically says:
We didn't give a shit about him, he was gone no matter what was good for him or not. We dumped him off on the first person we could find, which happens to be Quantic. Oh BTW, Good luck to him in the future!
Which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Dude would have gotten fired from an NFL team if he released a statement like that about a former player.
I don't see why catz or coL can't just say: "Hey, we're sorry it couldn't work out; hope he does great in the future. BTW, we're sending (whoever) to Korea soon and we will always be on the lookout for new talent!"
Would have been fine. But no, they had to play the pissing contest game with someone who it looks like isn't even taking a piss at them...
On December 11 2011 05:06 On_Slaught wrote: I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
How does naniwa have more cred than a prof organization and other, less BM, progamers like Catz? Because you like him he must be right? I don't have any real opinion on the guy (he is a good player), but based on what we know about him he is far from "presumed innocent." Rather, it should be the opposite.
I wonder what all the Obama fans will say when he press the button that kills everyone in the world with nuclear weapons and communism?
Heres the answer: stop making imaginary shit up out of thin air.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
why can't Catz express how he feels about Naniwa? it's not like Catz is making stuff up. everyone knows Naniwa has a bad personality. public forum so let the truth be told.
On December 11 2011 07:05 arfyron wrote: The bias on this forum is amazing. Nani says something untrue about coL and catz but catz is BM for responding.
A huge part of the reason why Nani has so many haters is how brutally (thoughtlessly many would say) honest the man is. Food for thought.
I'm a NaNi fan(boy) and I don't get why would somebody be butthurt with CatZ post. Some people need to be less sensitive about a forum post that may or may not be filled with truth. It is not that offensive and if it were why would you care? People are still allowed to not love each other.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
why can't Catz express how he feels about Naniwa? it's not like Catz is making stuff up. everyone knows Naniwa has a bad personality. public forum so let the truth be told.
Because in his post he critized Naniwa for not knowing how to interact in a mannered way, and when to better not say anything at all. While he is lacking exactly this forethought in his post.
On December 11 2011 07:01 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:56 jnsjr wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is:
"I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole."
Seems kind of stupid to me... but whatever.
It started out with them attempted to correct misinformation. Naniwa mentioned additional factors such as money and priorities in his interview, which is what Catz responded to. Specifically the quote about Catz getting 5000 viewers being comparable to Naniwa's MLG finish. Catz also affirmed that Naniwa gets paid around three times as much as him and would likely get paid more if not for his attitude. All of this is relevant and a direct response to some of the stuff Naniwa said in his interview.
It's not like Naniwa is coming in and saying, "Well, I'm really excited about being with Sase and look forward to performing in Code S-" and then Complexity just comes in and yells, "Naniwa is a asshole!". They're responding directly to what he's saying.
Well... not quite. I read Nani's original statement, and it said nothing negative about coL at all. Then the coL guy comes out and basically says:
We didn't give a shit about him, he was gone no matter what was good for him or not. We dumped him off on the first person we could find, which happens to be Quantic. Oh BTW, Good luck to him in the future!
Which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Dude would have gotten fired from an NFL team if he released a statement like that about a former player.
I don't see why catz or coL can't just say: "Hey, we're sorry it couldn't work out; hope he does great in the future. BTW, we're sending (whoever) to Korea soon and we will always be on the lookout for new talent!"
Would have been fine. But no, they had to play the pissing contest game with someone who it looks like isn't even taking a piss at them...
Just seems really unprofessional to me.
i guess if thats what you want to pretend happened you can make that argument.
On December 11 2011 07:05 arfyron wrote: The bias on this forum is amazing. Nani says something untrue about coL and catz but catz is BM for responding.
How do you know that it's untrue? Because coL and catz say it? Is that not bias?
Yeah Catz is going to lie about making a third of nani's salary? Nani has a history of being incredibly difficult and BM. I'm sure he's the one that's telling the truth.
I'm a huge fan of Naniwa and what Catz says about him is probably true and not bm in any way. Some fans need to wake up. I don't like Naniwa because he's the most good manner guy in the scene, I like him because of who he is, regardless of how bm he can be at times.
You don't have to like Naniwa, just find some other player to be a fan of if you can't accept how he is, geez.
I love how whenever a company / team / person writes something cautiously and keeps stuff to themselves to make sure their words can't be seen as 'bm' and 'negative' towards anyone, everyone goes 'I wish people were just honest and tell us exactly what happens!!', but whenever anyone does exactly that, they get raged at and the same damn people tell them to 'be more courteous' and shizzle. Unless of course the person in question is an 'accomplished' player, in which case it's okay for them to say and do anything they want because apparently winning in a tournament or two gives you a free pass to being a douche to anyone and automatically makes anything you say true and 100% correct.
On December 11 2011 07:01 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:56 jnsjr wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is:
"I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole."
Seems kind of stupid to me... but whatever.
It started out with them attempted to correct misinformation. Naniwa mentioned additional factors such as money and priorities in his interview, which is what Catz responded to. Specifically the quote about Catz getting 5000 viewers being comparable to Naniwa's MLG finish. Catz also affirmed that Naniwa gets paid around three times as much as him and would likely get paid more if not for his attitude. All of this is relevant and a direct response to some of the stuff Naniwa said in his interview.
It's not like Naniwa is coming in and saying, "Well, I'm really excited about being with Sase and look forward to performing in Code S-" and then Complexity just comes in and yells, "Naniwa is a asshole!". They're responding directly to what he's saying.
Well... not quite. I read Nani's original statement, and it said nothing negative about coL at all. Then the coL guy comes out and basically says:
We didn't give a shit about him, he was gone no matter what was good for him or not. We dumped him off on the first person we could find, which happens to be Quantic. Oh BTW, Good luck to him in the future!
Which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Dude would have gotten fired from an NFL team if he released a statement like that about a former player.
I don't see why catz or coL can't just say: "Hey, we're sorry it couldn't work out; hope he does great in the future. BTW, we're sending (whoever) to Korea soon and we will always be on the lookout for new talent!"
Would have been fine. But no, they had to play the pissing contest game with someone who it looks like isn't even taking a piss at them...
Just seems really unprofessional to me.
coL and catz are just responding to Naniwa's statement. Naniwa could have avoided all these drama if he just ignored the questions in the interview and not complain about how coL is ran. He started this so props to catZ for reminding us what kind of character Naniwa is.
On December 11 2011 07:24 Sethronu wrote: I love how whenever a company / team / person writes something cautiously and keeps stuff to themselves to make sure their words can't be seen as 'bm' and 'negative' towards anyone, everyone goes 'I wish people were just honest and tell us exactly what happens!!', but whenever anyone does exactly that, they get raged at and the same damn people tell them to 'be more courteous' and shizzle. Unless of course the person in question is an 'accomplished' player, in which case it's okay for them to say and do anything they want because apparently winning in a tournament or two gives you a free pass to being a douche to anyone and automatically makes anything you say true and 100% correct.
Lovers, haters, flamers, warmongers and supporters of either sides. Take a fucking chill pill.
You are not a tabloid magazine, don't just invent drama to have something to be upset about. As some people apparently are not aware of: it's perfectly possible to acknowledge flaws of a person and still be his friend. It's ok. Just listen to every time incontrol talks about idra ffs.
I think it was a sincere and honest post by catz and I'll still be supporting Naniwa. Nani hwaiting!
Meh, it's massively condescending to speculate about the origins of Naniwa's personality. It's borderline if kept just between Catz and Naniwa (since he is after all in a position to speculate), but seems just obnoxious on a public forum.
On December 11 2011 07:24 Sethronu wrote: I love how whenever a company / team / person writes something cautiously and keeps stuff to themselves to make sure their words can't be seen as 'bm' and 'negative' towards anyone, everyone goes 'I wish people were just honest and tell us exactly what happens!!', but whenever anyone does exactly that, they get raged at and the same damn people tell them to 'be more courteous' and shizzle. Unless of course the person in question is an 'accomplished' player, in which case it's okay for them to say and do anything they want because apparently winning in a tournament or two gives you a free pass to being a douche to anyone and automatically makes anything you say true and 100% correct.
Absolutes makes for such solid arguments :D
I will go out on a limb and suggest that the people on the two sides are likely not the same, and definitely not 'everyone'.
On December 11 2011 07:24 Sethronu wrote: I love how whenever a company / team / person writes something cautiously and keeps stuff to themselves to make sure their words can't be seen as 'bm' and 'negative' towards anyone, everyone goes 'I wish people were just honest and tell us exactly what happens!!', but whenever anyone does exactly that, they get raged at and the same damn people tell them to 'be more courteous' and shizzle. Unless of course the person in question is an 'accomplished' player, in which case it's okay for them to say and do anything they want because apparently winning in a tournament or two gives you a free pass to being a douche to anyone and automatically makes anything you say true and 100% correct.
Absolutes makes for such solid arguments :D
I will go out on a limb and suggest that the people on the two sides are likely not the same, and definitely not 'everyone'.
Attacking someone for making a perfectly fine argument makes for a solid argument. You know exactly what he was trying to say, but you act like a jerk anyways. Be nice.
On December 11 2011 07:29 Grumbels wrote: Meh, it's massively condescending to speculate about the origins of Naniwa's personality. It's borderline if kept just between Catz and Naniwa (since he is after all in a position to speculate), but seems just obnoxious on a public forum.
This. It's extremely obnoxious and unwarranted.
What if one of the guys on coL has a bed-wetting problem? Should Nani tell us about it because "It's the truth!"?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
On December 11 2011 07:11 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 11 2011 07:06 Mordiford wrote:
On December 11 2011 07:01 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:56 jnsjr wrote:
On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote: Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all.
People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked.
Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012!
Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is:
"I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole."
Seems kind of stupid to me... but whatever.
It started out with them attempted to correct misinformation. Naniwa mentioned additional factors such as money and priorities in his interview, which is what Catz responded to. Specifically the quote about Catz getting 5000 viewers being comparable to Naniwa's MLG finish. Catz also affirmed that Naniwa gets paid around three times as much as him and would likely get paid more if not for his attitude. All of this is relevant and a direct response to some of the stuff Naniwa said in his interview.
It's not like Naniwa is coming in and saying, "Well, I'm really excited about being with Sase and look forward to performing in Code S-" and then Complexity just comes in and yells, "Naniwa is a asshole!". They're responding directly to what he's saying.
Well... not quite. I read Nani's original statement, and it said nothing negative about coL at all. Then the coL guy comes out and basically says:
We didn't give a shit about him, he was gone no matter what was good for him or not. We dumped him off on the first person we could find, which happens to be Quantic. Oh BTW, Good luck to him in the future!
Which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Dude would have gotten fired from an NFL team if he released a statement like that about a former player.
I don't see why catz or coL can't just say: "Hey, we're sorry it couldn't work out; hope he does great in the future. BTW, we're sending (whoever) to Korea soon and we will always be on the lookout for new talent!"
Would have been fine. But no, they had to play the pissing contest game with someone who it looks like isn't even taking a piss at them...
Just seems really unprofessional to me.
coL and catz are just responding to Naniwa's statement. Naniwa could have avoided all these drama if he just ignored the questions in the interview and not complain about how coL is ran. He started this so props to catZ for reminding us what kind of character Naniwa is.
I hardly think so actually. People would still rage and hate him, don't think it really matters. And I don't really see how people can find catz post offensive, lol.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
Wut? I watched that series and I have no memory of catz casting that? :S
A professional SC2 team is still a business. Complexity has the right to place a lot of value on publicity if they want to, and Naniwa has the right to make a change in his career if he wants to. If you don't enjoy watching Catz's stream because of his lack of accomplishments, then don't. If you don't care for Naniwa because of his attitude problems, don't support him.
I think the comment about Catz's stream was an error of judgement on Naniwa's part as far as proper PR goes but it's a little pointless and childish to start ranting about how CoL should focus more on the wins or about Naniwa's relationship with his coworkers because I don't think anyone here really knows and it's not really any of our business anyway.
The only thing I know for sure is that Naniwa's behaviour during tournaments is often less than classy and that's why I do not support him as a player. I feel like the rest is just speculation.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
NaNiwa faced a lot of personal problems during his Warcraft 3 career. He briefly touched upon this subject in an interview with Gravitas Gaming. NaNiwa explained how personal issues, including being kicked out of home and school, built up an anger inside of him which he took out against opposing players.[1][2] Because of this NaNiwa was accused of BM from time to time and frequently forced to switch teams.[3][4] These problems seemed to follow him into his StarCraft 2 career.
Basically exactly what Catz and others said, now stop making drama off something which was already known. It´s nothing new, just leave it be, you like Naniwa or you don´t. The fact remains he is a really good player.
Seems to me that there's some irony to be found in CatZ's writing about Naniwa not being able to conduct himself appropriately in what is actually a massively inappropriate post in itself. It was kind of painful reading that. Seemed like he meant to be sincere but then proceeds to use his relationship with Naniwa to attack him on a way more personal level, right in the middle of a massive shit storm on a public forum. Really now? Show a little discretion.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
lol, this might be the best troll ever, but it seems that you are confusing Cats Pajamas and Complexity's Catz.
Naniwa is a guy who has goals and pursues them. I can respect that and I don´t have to like his personality. He is an awesome player for very obvious reasons and I wish him the best of luck. Tone the bashing down, I don´t think he does deserve that much (maybe a little, but it seems way too much right now.).
I don't really get all the drama in this topic. I mean, the whole situation really looks like a conflict of views/interests and was publicly stated as such, so what is this all about? Who told who they don't like the situation first? Does that really matter?
As for Naniwa, results and publicity: like it has been brought up in many posts here, being a professional athlete, whether at normal sports or e-sports, is not only about the results. The interaction between results and PR is not trivial here - you can have a lot of stuff forgiven if you're at the absolute top (see Mike Tyson here), you can be totally lacking results if you're a real celebrity (Anna Kournikova for the polar example), but most guys fall somewhere in between and basically, if you are not at the peak in one department, you have to have enough in the other for the situation to be managable.
It does seem like coL thought that with Naniwa, the balance between skills and PR was sufficient and that they quickly changed their opinion on that matter. Maybe with QxG it will be different - teams have differing team images and some want to be more "friendly", while some can accept more "bad publicity". Maybe it won't. Guess we'll all see in a few months.
As for what CatZ said, to people bashing him: you seem to be missing out on the key point to the rules of privacy, which is that it's only inadequate to comment publicly on someone's intimate/personal matters if they aren't public knowledge already. Contrast a situation of a known actor's friend saying "Yeah, he has to do something with his serious alcohol problem" when confronted with a) a situation of said actor being imprisoned for drunk driving and b) a situation of said actor being dropped from a movie cast without comments by the producer.
On December 11 2011 08:34 theBizness wrote: Gotta love it, Catz and Naniwa can get along but their fans must fight a death match.
Well its kind of like Flash/jaedong. Both of them are really good friends but the fans just want to kill each other lol :D. typical in probably every sport/esport in the world
On December 11 2011 08:20 NKsc2 wrote: So many butthurt catzfans in here.
So many angry nani fans cant stand the truth about his hero.
Pretty much this. I can't believe so many people are BM towards CatZ. And here I thought that people could have a nice discussion without getting pissed by the truth. Silly me.
Lol? Everything catz said is true and has never been a secret during naniwa's entire career. I can't believe how many naniwa fans are completely unaware to it if they truly were his fans. Surprise, guess we can never say the truth unless it puts players in the best light possible. I thought catz actually put it in a nice way.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
LOL. coL.CatZPajamas.
Oh is that a different person altogether? In that case I apologize to Catz!
edit: Which is not to say that I don't find his post really passive aggressive and generally weird. And I don't even like Nani!
Sure CatZ said it a bit wrong, but it's totally true. These are the shortcomings of Naniwa. I don't think it's true that coL cared the same if CatZ got 5k viewers on his stream or he got 2nd at MLG. What probably happened is, Naniwa got 2nd at MLG, went to coL and said "hey I just got 2nd, can I get a raise", and they said no. Which is totally understandable. Reactionary practices like that are an awesome way to lose money and blow an investment.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
LOL. coL.CatZPajamas.
Oh is that a different person altogether? In that case I apologize to Catz!
edit: Which is not to say that I don't find his post really passive aggressive and generally weird. And I don't even like Nani!
Yes, there is a caster named catspajamas annd a player named catz, both are differennt people.
Also I don't see what's wrong with his post, it's not like it's some secret that nanniwa is basically a spoiled brat and near impossible to deal with, everyone's known this for ages now.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
LOL. coL.CatZPajamas.
Oh is that a different person altogether? In that case I apologize to Catz!
edit: Which is not to say that I don't find his post really passive aggressive and generally weird. And I don't even like Nani!
Yes, there is a caster named catspajamas annd a player named catz, both are differennt people.
Also I don't see what's wrong with his post, it's not like it's some secret that nanniwa is basically a spoiled brat and near impossible to deal with, everyone's known this for ages now.
The problem with the post is that the guy is being hypocritical as hell in it. Also, just because it's true doesn't mean you need to be spouting it off. And if he has the right to post it, we all have the right to call him on it.
i don't get why people are surprised that catz posted here or why he posted what he posted. a professional shouldn't just namedrop someone in his field the way naniwa did unless they want a confrontation. the vast majority of people have no idea how coL internally does business, and nani implied some negative things (in his opinoin) about the relationship of coL and catz vs. the relationship of coL and naniwa with his comments.
Seriously, how much stupid player bashing is people going to do? Like someone already said, both Naniwa and complexity got a win/win situation, just let it stay like that and go on...
Can't believe people are still arguing over this, read Catz post ffs. Naniwa is a prick, everyone who has worked with him has said this. Get over your fanboyism
On December 11 2011 08:32 Beakyboo wrote: Seems to me that there's some irony to be found in CatZ's writing about Naniwa not being able to conduct himself appropriately in what is actually a massively inappropriate post in itself. It was kind of painful reading that. Seemed like he meant to be sincere but then proceeds to use his relationship with Naniwa to attack him on a way more personal level, right in the middle of a massive shit storm on a public forum. Really now? Show a little discretion.
you're absolutely correct, I wasn't thinking clearly, and this wasn't really the place or time to voice my opinions on this.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
Whooooaaaa VODS?????
It's the post he quoted. People are overreacting as usual.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
So you basically shit on your friends in public with your statements? How very mature and kind of you.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
So you basically shit on your friends in public with your statements? How very mature and kind of you.
On December 11 2011 08:32 Beakyboo wrote: Seems to me that there's some irony to be found in CatZ's writing about Naniwa not being able to conduct himself appropriately in what is actually a massively inappropriate post in itself. It was kind of painful reading that. Seemed like he meant to be sincere but then proceeds to use his relationship with Naniwa to attack him on a way more personal level, right in the middle of a massive shit storm on a public forum. Really now? Show a little discretion.
you're absolutely correct, I wasn't thinking clearly, and this wasn't really the place or time to voice my opinions on this.
Seems absolutely fine to me. coL are a business, and like money of every form. NaNi is a player, and likes winning. Everyone's doing what everyone's gonna do, and it's just better for everyone for them to part ways.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it?
Hey, gotta keep up those core values
Pretty much if you consider that Catz insults other progammers like he did with Spanishiwa on stream or get it on with fans' girlfriends like at MLG Colombus.
I feel Nani is a little bit of an out-spoken bm-machine, kind of like IdrA. I feel his concerns are legit, but still. I guess manners don't get you very far in SC2. He's got personality, that's for sure... but still.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Whoa, I'm sorry for all the flame I've caused, that was not my intention. All I was trying to say is that whatever personal flaws Niniwa has, they should be kept secret by his friends and co-workers; there's not place for posting it on such a highly public forum.
I think if CatZ just said that "Niniwa sometimes can be difficult to work with, and he has had arguments with the team and the management in the past concerning player salaries. It's unfortunate that he has decided to leave the team, however I wish him best of luck in the future!", it would have been completely professional yet at the same time give a little insight into why Niniwa left the team. It was the detail, tone and liberal counts of pejorative descriptions of Niniwa that he wrote which I thought was over the line.
On December 11 2011 07:24 Sethronu wrote: I love how whenever a company / team / person writes something cautiously and keeps stuff to themselves to make sure their words can't be seen as 'bm' and 'negative' towards anyone, everyone goes 'I wish people were just honest and tell us exactly what happens!!', but whenever anyone does exactly that, they get raged at and the same damn people tell them to 'be more courteous' and shizzle. Unless of course the person in question is an 'accomplished' player, in which case it's okay for them to say and do anything they want because apparently winning in a tournament or two gives you a free pass to being a douche to anyone and automatically makes anything you say true and 100% correct.
Well coL didn't actually say what happend. They just started being assholes, but didn't say what happend at all. So you sir obviously don't know what you are talking about.
Naniwa has been KNOWN to be bm and difficult as hell. When he first signed with Dignitas, I think there was a part of the contract that was revealed that he had to stay mannered or else, something along those lines.
Anyway I have tremendous admiration and respect for Naniwa as a competitor/player. As a person, however, I think he is severely lacking social skills, thus immature and bm as hell.
Say what you want about NaNi, at least he comes out and does the interview like a man and explains his reasons without hiding behind anyone or anything. Even if you don't respect his motivations, respect the fact that he has a pair and doesn't give us some flimsy excuse or bs about why he switched. That being said, good for NaNi- I'm glad he feels that tournament wins where he crushes through SEVERAL of the best players in the world means more than streaming and everyday exposure for a team. Proud NaNi fan, good luck in korea with ST and best of luck in Quantic!
One of the greatest overall Starcraft II players !
@On_Slaugh : Like what player ? The only good player (player that won tournaments) that I can think of is Idra, and the only reason he has so many viewers is because he's bad mannered most of the time.
Conplexity handled this situation well. The confusion seem to arise from somewhere else, like people assuming something. I wish all parties luck, to Quantic, Complexity, and especially to Nani
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
So you basically shit on your friends in public with your statements? How very mature and kind of you.
I really didn't read his statement that way at all. I don't know about you, but I have a friend who seems like a complete dick but he's also a fantastic person once you get to know him. He knows it, I know it, and I've said that to other friends who were offended by his behavior. So, CatZ isn't shitting on Nani, he's only explaining that "Look, I know he can be a real douche sometimes but he's actually a really good guy."
Obviously it's buried in there a bit beneath also explaining the situation from his point of view, but that's what I got out of it (regarding his personal relation with naniwa). Then again, what I got out if it may not have been the intended message, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and naively believe everyone has good intentions. Hopefully this is readable...I'm quite hungover still -_-.
On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote: This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
Because being about both is better then 1
Assuming equal talent at both is wrong also. By having to put work into one area, that is time and effort potentially lost in the other. I do think one should try. But like Tyler's view from SotG, playing should take the higher priority.
I watched the interviewing and just finished reading through the whole topic...from the interview he was saying he wasn't receiving much money as he probably wanted from complexity, he then continued to say that complexity viewed him the same as they would do Catz, the way he stated his views there was a bit inappropriate because he was basically saying he is much better then Catz and that complexity viewed them as the same.. however I think Naniwa is an honest person and just says whats on his mind without thinking twice about it, so we can't hold anything against him for that.
However when Catz replied in this topic, he made a lot of personal attacks towards Naniwa whilst calling him a friend.. Catz if he was really your friend you wouldn't of said all those things about him, true or not you do not say things like that about friends.. It seemed like you really wanted to diminish Naniwa's reputation even more. I think your feelings may have been hurt when Naniwa used you as an example, but you shouldn't of got so angry over that.. the fact is he is a much better player than you and he has the wins under his belt, so if he goes around saying he is better than you, you shouldn't feel insulted.
It just seems to me like Catz is being a little envious of Naniwa
People criticize Naniwa's personality and social awkwardness as being detrimental to his value as a player... but the very fact that his personality causes so much discussion proves otherwise.
Naniwa's personality is part of his marketability. Whatever he does tends to raise drama, and that's helped along by his strength as a player. His unmistakable personality allows him to stand out in a field of faceless nondescript players who are often described as "actually a nice guy in real life" by various casters.
On December 11 2011 15:52 SuperFanBoy wrote: I watched the interviewing and just finished reading through the whole topic...from the interview he was saying he wasn't receiving much money as he probably wanted from complexity, he then continued to say that complexity viewed him the same as they would do Catz, the way he stated his views there was a bit inappropriate because he was basically saying he is much better then Catz and that complexity viewed them as the same.. however I think Naniwa is an honest person and just says whats on his mind without thinking twice about it, so we can't hold anything against him for that.
However when Catz replied in this topic, he made a lot of personal attacks towards Naniwa whilst calling him a friend.. Catz if he was really your friend you wouldn't of said all those things about him, true or not you do not say things like that about friends.. It seemed like you really wanted to diminish Naniwa's reputation even more. I think your feelings may have been hurt when Naniwa used you as an example, but you shouldn't of got so angry over that.. the fact is he is a much better player than you and he has the wins under his belt, so if he goes around saying he is better than you, you shouldn't feel insulted.
It just seems to me like Catz is being a little envious of Naniwa
I should stop replying to posts like this but i guess this will be my last one.
Even though as you said, and as everyone knows, naniwa is a way better player then Catz. But that's not really what nani said, he just said that coL values 5k viewers as much as a top finish in MLG. There is no doubt in my mind that he used catz as an example simply because he is really the only one in coL with even close to this many viewers, am i right?
I don't know why catz replied, if he felt offended or something. Don't think he should though, since nothing bad about him was actually said...
Haha what Catz said really confirms all the rumors that Naniwa is still difficult to handle haha. It's ok. He will learn those lessons in time. He has at least acknowledged the need to change. That's good. Like an alcoholic.
On December 11 2011 15:52 SuperFanBoy wrote: I watched the interviewing and just finished reading through the whole topic...from the interview he was saying he wasn't receiving much money as he probably wanted from complexity, he then continued to say that complexity viewed him the same as they would do Catz, the way he stated his views there was a bit inappropriate because he was basically saying he is much better then Catz and that complexity viewed them as the same.. however I think Naniwa is an honest person and just says whats on his mind without thinking twice about it, so we can't hold anything against him for that.
However when Catz replied in this topic, he made a lot of personal attacks towards Naniwa whilst calling him a friend.. Catz if he was really your friend you wouldn't of said all those things about him, true or not you do not say things like that about friends.. It seemed like you really wanted to diminish Naniwa's reputation even more. I think your feelings may have been hurt when Naniwa used you as an example, but you shouldn't of got so angry over that.. the fact is he is a much better player than you and he has the wins under his belt, so if he goes around saying he is better than you, you shouldn't feel insulted.
It just seems to me like Catz is being a little envious of Naniwa
It is all being marketable for a north american based structure like Complexity. Catz is hispanic, lives in America, has no competitions to prepare for so he can stream his ladder all day everyday, struggles against opponents and likes to troll people in game (cheese and ragequits) and outside of the game (reprehensible behavior towards casters and players), thus represent a perfectly marketable product for a NA base audience that can identify to him. While Naniwa, a top european pro gamer, training in korean with different time zones, preparing for competitions and thus can't stream most of his practice, can't weigh himself in the balance the way than Catz can, to ask extra support from Complexity, and had to take a decision considering his future based on this conclusion. Structures and players have different goals and point of views, partnerships come when they find a compatibility, but once they can't, one has to recognize that his career is being impeded by what he is being asked and must take the fire for breaking away.
On December 10 2011 09:15 qqK wrote: I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Unforunately a lot of teams do this, including ones that I have been on. I have left teams due to the immaturity of their players only to find out later that they told everyone "Yeah we kicked him out he sucks". It's a very petty and pathetic way for them to try and save face.
On December 10 2011 09:15 qqK wrote: I dont understand complexity's reddit comment o.O Why do they insist on having kicked out naniwa and would have even against his will, if Naniwa tells a completely different story (which already was part of his initial statement). Even if it was as coL described, wouldn't it have been much better publicity-wise to get their shit together beforehand and release one story without contradictions? Well, who cares about coL anyway, good luck in the future, nani.
Unforunately a lot of teams do this, including ones that I have been on. I have left teams due to the immaturity of their players only to find out later that they told everyone "Yeah we kicked him out he sucks". It's a very petty and pathetic way for them to try and save face.
Only, Quantic has confirmed in the OP that Complexity approached them prior to Naniwa, which would affirm that they were looking to sell his contract. They lucked out on finding that Quantic was interested in Naniwa, and Naniwa was interested in being on the same team as Sase.
It surely would have been less confusing and more productive if Naniwa and Complexity had released a statement together, but that's really equally the fault of both of them unless one party tried to contact the other to have a joined press release only to be turned down. Regardless, after a statement from one side is released, I don't see it as unprofessional or petty at all for the other side to correct it if it's just flat-out wrong. That's all that Complexity really did.
Best of luck to both parties. Some of the responses in this thread have been pretty ridiculous.
I can totally understand Nani's point of view, as I went to grad school in an area way outside my comfort zone and got really lonely/depressed and couldn't make it no matter how hard I tried. Maybe I'm biased, but I'm totally for his switch.
On December 11 2011 18:10 BLacKOuTz wrote: I like CatZ and I watch him all the time but I don't agree with stream viewer count being equivalent to a MLG placing of 2nd, especially at Nationals.
And neither Catz nor coL ever said it was so what's your problem?
It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
On December 11 2011 16:30 Ownos wrote: Haha what Catz said really confirms all the rumors that Naniwa is still difficult to handle haha. It's ok. He will learn those lessons in time. He has at least acknowledged the need to change. That's good. Like an alcoholic.
Haha oh god. So many posters here are obviously a lot more socially awkward than nani could be even if he put his heart to it.. Like an alcoholic? Wow.. Yeah nani's totally like an alcoholic -_- Don't complain about behaviour if you can't keep yourself from being socially retarded in the same post.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
you clearly love the drama, read what i wrote as you choose and make as big a deal of it as you want, this is my opinion and I think naniwa's well aware of all of this, I don't think he is a bad person because of it but I think changing certain attitudes will help him not just in his gaming career but for the rest of his life, so sure, you can be the cool dood that 'supports' him and tells him "hey johan don't listen to anyone, you're doing everything right, just be yourself, the world must adapt to you not the other way arround and the 6 or so teams that you've joined since the game started were all wrong' you're a complete idiot. fact is he needs to change certain attitudes or he's fucked, so im not trying to sugarcoat anything, im being as honest as naniwa usually is, because he NEEDS to adapt to some extend in order to succeed and get what he deserves. that's all, im not commenting anymore on this thread, unfortunately there's too many idiots like yourself trying to cause friction and sound smart at all costs, fact is you don't know me, you don't know naniwa, you don't know complexity, you don't know qxg, you know what you read, and form your opinions from that, so more reading, less judging.
I didn't find Catz' post offensive and real friends are not the people who just blindly support other people, but those guys that will not hide the truth from you and want to help you make yourself a better person. Furthermore, I think we all know at this point that Naniwa, while a great SC2 player, has had personal difficulties for a couple years now and has struggled with them, sometimes privately, sometimes less so. So none of anything Catz said is surprising.
I agree the timing is off because of all the emotions flying around however.
On December 11 2011 16:30 Ownos wrote: Haha what Catz said really confirms all the rumors that Naniwa is still difficult to handle haha. It's ok. He will learn those lessons in time. He has at least acknowledged the need to change. That's good. Like an alcoholic.
I honestly don't understand how people can dissect the intentions of companies and people and infer their personal situation and whatever else. Seems like some people think StarCraft is a gossip mag.
Personally, I feel insulting people based on rumour and not specific examples of public display is disgraceful. If someone who knows him personally wants to make public complaints or whatever, that's up to them. For RandomForumPoster344 to make personal comments though? Do not approve at all.
Your first post was pretty disgusting CatZ, almost as much as your singing voice (haha ok that was mean, don't you be upset); you should, IMO, not have got involved.
I'm just wondering how hard it can be to make sure that all the information and statements regarding the transfer is 100% ironed out before making official posts on the team sites.
Also posting information regarding who's right or wrong on reddit looks aweful. At least do it on the official twitter or website.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
you clearly love the drama, read what i wrote as you choose and make as big a deal of it as you want, this is my opinion and I think naniwa's well aware of all of this, I don't think he is a bad person because of it but I think changing certain attitudes will help him not just in his gaming career but for the rest of his life, so sure, you can be the cool dood that 'supports' him and tells him "hey johan don't listen to anyone, you're doing everything right, just be yourself, the world must adapt to you not the other way arround and the 6 or so teams that you've joined since the game started were all wrong' you're a complete idiot. fact is he needs to change certain attitudes or he's fucked, so im not trying to sugarcoat anything, im being as honest as naniwa usually is, because he NEEDS to adapt to some extend in order to succeed and get what he deserves. that's all, im not commenting anymore on this thread, unfortunately there's too many idiots like yourself trying to cause friction and sound smart at all costs, fact is you don't know me, you don't know naniwa, you don't know complexity, you don't know qxg, you know what you read, and form your opinions from that, so more reading, less judging.
I didn't find Catz' post offensive and real friends are not the people who just blindly support other people, but those guys that will not hide the truth from you and want to help you make yourself a better person.
You don't insult or talk negatively about your real friends on public forums. He can say what-ever he wants to Naniwa but there is no reason to make it public, as now it just feels like public defamation.
Catz, unfortunately, is the kind of player who does what he can in order to get fame and exposure. As he cannot do it by results, it does it by yelling on steam or takes the opportunity to talk down his "friends" in public.
Can't really blame him though, everyone wants a piece of the money pie that is Starcraft 2 at the moment and there is always room for the opportunist who is prepared to do what others don't.
On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote: This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
Because being about both is better then 1
Assuming equal talent at both is wrong also. By having to put work into one area, that is time and effort potentially lost in the other. I do think one should try. But like Tyler's view from SotG, playing should take the higher priority.
Maybe this is controversial but I partly disagree. SC2 is where it is in the foreign community in big part because of the time and effort some well known players put into making the game popular. There's no way the top players would be making the kind of money they do if it was all about the games themselves.
I don't think it's fair to make the players chose between practicing and PR and in the end the guy with the best results is going to end up with most of the pie. But the size of the pie very much depends on the time and effort players put into interacting with fans. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with teams and tournaments asking this from their players.
On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote: This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
Because being about both is better then 1
Assuming equal talent at both is wrong also. By having to put work into one area, that is time and effort potentially lost in the other. I do think one should try. But like Tyler's view from SotG, playing should take the higher priority.
Maybe this is controversial but I partly disagree. SC2 is where it is in the foreign community in big part because of the time and effort some well known players put into making the game popular. There's no way the top players would be making the kind of money they do if it was all about the games themselves.
I don't think it's fair to make the players chose between practicing and PR and in the end the guy with the best results is going to end up with most of the pie. But the size of the pie very much depends on the time and effort players put into interacting with fans. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with teams and tournaments asking this from their players.
To compare, lets take the two extremes. For one, take someone who is only into PR, such as Tejbz (the Dreamhack host). And then take a person who is only into playing, such as SaSe.
I'd take and cheer for players like SaSe any day of the week over Tejbz. I'd say that the only reason people like Destiny or Catz are even getting any attention, is due to them being from American and America has a ton of people but extremely few decent players and thus the few that can play are getting a ton of attention.
On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote: oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?
That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
you clearly love the drama, read what i wrote as you choose and make as big a deal of it as you want, this is my opinion and I think naniwa's well aware of all of this, I don't think he is a bad person because of it but I think changing certain attitudes will help him not just in his gaming career but for the rest of his life, so sure, you can be the cool dood that 'supports' him and tells him "hey johan don't listen to anyone, you're doing everything right, just be yourself, the world must adapt to you not the other way arround and the 6 or so teams that you've joined since the game started were all wrong' you're a complete idiot. fact is he needs to change certain attitudes or he's fucked, so im not trying to sugarcoat anything, im being as honest as naniwa usually is, because he NEEDS to adapt to some extend in order to succeed and get what he deserves. that's all, im not commenting anymore on this thread, unfortunately there's too many idiots like yourself trying to cause friction and sound smart at all costs, fact is you don't know me, you don't know naniwa, you don't know complexity, you don't know qxg, you know what you read, and form your opinions from that, so more reading, less judging.
I didn't find Catz' post offensive and real friends are not the people who just blindly support other people, but those guys that will not hide the truth from you and want to help you make yourself a better person.
You don't insult or talk negatively about your real friends on public forums. He can say what-ever he wants to Naniwa but there is no reason to make it public, as now it just feels like public defamation.
Catz, unfortunately, is the kind of player who does what he can in order to get fame and exposure. As he cannot do it by results, it does it by yelling on steam or takes the opportunity to talk down his "friends" in public.
Can't really blame him though, everyone wants a piece of the money pie that is Starcraft 2 at the moment and there is always room for the opportunist who is prepared to do what others don't.
On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote: This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
Because being about both is better then 1
Assuming equal talent at both is wrong also. By having to put work into one area, that is time and effort potentially lost in the other. I do think one should try. But like Tyler's view from SotG, playing should take the higher priority.
Maybe this is controversial but I partly disagree. SC2 is where it is in the foreign community in big part because of the time and effort some well known players put into making the game popular. There's no way the top players would be making the kind of money they do if it was all about the games themselves.
I don't think it's fair to make the players chose between practicing and PR and in the end the guy with the best results is going to end up with most of the pie. But the size of the pie very much depends on the time and effort players put into interacting with fans. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with teams and tournaments asking this from their players.
I dont think people disagree with that. Ofcourse PR towards the fans and the community is very important. But l8tly I notise a trend where people talking about players being marketable or not. I dont like this sc 2 is a competition about skills and that should allways be first every time.
I notise especially the NA teams are very good at PR and exposure. And there is ofcourse nothing wrong with that. All im saying if they spend as much time as training there players in a good environment then they do with there PR machine. Maybe the foreigner players woulnt be so behind the Koreans.
Isnt it abit sad we got players like Incontrol and catz with more viewers and more exposure then a korean player like Startale Virus who clearly is a million times better at this game.
But still he only got 50 viewers on his stream o.0
HappyChris; Naniwa made his comment about coL valuing his results and Catz' viewers equally. It seems you're just jumping on people in this thread to justify your point of view, but it would be nice if you could be a little more objective about things. Naniwa's statement is the one that is incorrect, Catz has every right to tell his side of the story and share it honestly. In fact I would say we need a lot more people to come out and share the truth, especially when others are misrepresenting things.
Streaming first and foremost is entertainment. It is not a tournament. Saying a good and relatively unknown player has to have 10,000 viewers makes as much sense as saying Destiny should win GSL. I understand you would like for all the good players to have high viewer counts, and so would I, but guys like Incontrol, Destiny and Catz put in hard fucking work to be entertaining. There's no need to hate.
Isnt it abit sad we got players like Incontrol and catz with more viewers and more exposure then a korean player like Startale Virus who clearly is a million times better at this game.
But still he only got 50 viewers on his stream o.0
I find that very sad
IDK, that's kind of my point. People are more interested in Incontrol because they know him or think they know him. If MLG had 20 Koreans and maybe 4-5 foreigners that are around their skill level they wouldn't have nearly the same kind of following.
On December 11 2011 23:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: HappyChris; Naniwa made his comment about coL valuing his results and Catz' viewers equally. It seems you're just jumping on people in this thread to justify your point of view, but it would be nice if you could be a little more objective about things. Naniwa's statement is the one that is incorrect, Catz has every right to tell his side of the story and share it honestly. In fact I would say we need a lot more people to come out and share the truth, especially when others are misrepresenting things.
I never sayd Naniwa´s statement was correct Nazgul all I sayd about Catz was I dont think it was necessery to come out in a public forum and post about Naniwa´s mental state.
And maybe is the truth or not but does it really matter? Personaly i dont care. Im proberly old fashion in these matters. But I just dont think its fair towards anyone when personal information is being showcased on a public forum.
This isn't some TMZ inhouse family violence (I would fully agree with you if this were the case). This is directly related to how Naniwa behaves in his professional career, as well as a reply to public comments.
On December 12 2011 00:03 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: This isn't some TMZ inhouse family violence (I would fully agree with you if this were the case). This is directly related to how Naniwa behaves in his professional career, as well as a reply to public comments.
Did col really value catz popular stream as much naniwa's great result? I mean naniwa was earning thrice the amount catz did and that is quite the difference. Anywaysm I hope naniwa will own face under quantic! Looking forward to see him in the gsl.
Naniwa cops way too much shit for just wanting to be the best. He shouldn't have to put up with the community making him feel insecure about doing what's best for him and his future like that. Best of luck to the kid though, will always be a fan. I'm gonna go buy a Chill Get Out shirt from the handsome nerd now to support him :D
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
I don't think you remember what happened with the Stephano situation...
On December 12 2011 00:19 chaynesore wrote: Naniwa cops way too much shit for just wanting to be the best. He shouldn't have to put up with the community making him feel insecure about doing what's best for him and his future like that.
If he wanted to join another team I don't think many people would be up in arms (other than the standard "oh nani is switching teams again" crew). The fact that he called out his team, saying they valued stream viewership as much as wins, is what pisses people off. As has been stated, he gets 3 times as much money as catz, so this obviously isn't right. If you want to switch teams, go for it. If you want to go out of your way to burn bridges and insult people, that's quite another thing.
On December 12 2011 00:03 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: This isn't some TMZ inhouse family violence (I would fully agree with you if this were the case). This is directly related to how Naniwa behaves in his professional career, as well as a reply to public comments.
o please the post catz made was CLEARLY condescending. we look at coL history and specifically catz history with players and you see a common thread. his professionalism is in question in my book. one, its not his job to comment on naniwas mental state as he is not qualified and two, he shit talks people CONSTANTLY on streams. ever watch his stream? a fav comment of mine is "this guy is so bad he will never make any money in sc2" catz is a pro that is going to fade away very quickly. he isnt fast, he isnt particularly good at anything really in sc2 that will keep him around and somehow hes been put in a position where he can shit talk naniwa and then sugar coat it and its ok? naniwa is a talent, name 100 skilled people at dif things in life and ill show you a good portion of them that have egos. you think naniwa likes being obscure? i doubt it. most likely the case with these past teams is that naniwa despite his success is getting the short end of the stick.
its VERY clear that naniwa perceives the fact that he is just as well known as catz as a bad thing. it is, catz isnt even 1/1001000 of the player naniwa is and he should want more. his last team imo didnt do a good job. so what if he social lacking, the job of the team is to help naniwa get over that and look good to the public.
these teams do a piss poor job of PR. they send players who have problems speaking in public or get nervous out on stage and they look stupid. give them some public speaking lessons. give them something to say. HELP THEM. the pros that win are not all MC they are soft spoken nerds that need help now that they are in a position of popularity. no team has helped defend naniwa and now hes on a team with destiny. sadly this is not a player of equal caliber and i hope this team treats naniwa like the player he is
On December 11 2011 15:52 SuperFanBoy wrote: I watched the interviewing and just finished reading through the whole topic...from the interview he was saying he wasn't receiving much money as he probably wanted from complexity, he then continued to say that complexity viewed him the same as they would do Catz, the way he stated his views there was a bit inappropriate because he was basically saying he is much better then Catz and that complexity viewed them as the same.. however I think Naniwa is an honest person and just says whats on his mind without thinking twice about it, so we can't hold anything against him for that.
However when Catz replied in this topic, he made a lot of personal attacks towards Naniwa whilst calling him a friend.. Catz if he was really your friend you wouldn't of said all those things about him, true or not you do not say things like that about friends.. It seemed like you really wanted to diminish Naniwa's reputation even more. I think your feelings may have been hurt when Naniwa used you as an example, but you shouldn't of got so angry over that.. the fact is he is a much better player than you and he has the wins under his belt, so if he goes around saying he is better than you, you shouldn't feel insulted.
It just seems to me like Catz is being a little envious of Naniwa
I should stop replying to posts like this but i guess this will be my last one.
Even though as you said, and as everyone knows, naniwa is a way better player then Catz. But that's not really what nani said, he just said that coL values 5k viewers as much as a top finish in MLG. There is no doubt in my mind that he used catz as an example simply because he is really the only one in coL with even close to this many viewers, am i right?
I don't know why catz replied, if he felt offended or something. Don't think he should though, since nothing bad about him was actually said...
Nothing has to be said, personal insecurity and jealousy can be difficult beasts to tame; the bigger your ego, the harder it is and judging from watching CatZ's stream, he is quite the confident SC2 player.
In any cut-throat business where there are a fuckton of good people competing but only with a handful of cream-of-the-crop individuals achieving success, there are bound to be occurrences of the inevitable ugly manifestation of human nature. Especially in SC2, where players are separated by the narrowest of benchmarks and margins near the top, I would actually be surprised if another player actually said anything good about Niniwa from Complexity.
When I look up to a player like MvP, I admire him because our relative skill in sc2 settles at a 1:10000 ratio. But can the same be said for all his teammates and peers? I'm pretty sure envy, bitterness at their personal lack of success and arrogance (spawning from being, although worst than 1/100000 people, better than 99999/100000 people) would be the dominant emotions over admiration.
I don't fault people for when they act upon these emotions because I've experienced and done the same thing in the music field, but it's pretty clear what had transpired so let's move on.
On December 11 2011 15:52 SuperFanBoy wrote: I watched the interviewing and just finished reading through the whole topic...from the interview he was saying he wasn't receiving much money as he probably wanted from complexity, he then continued to say that complexity viewed him the same as they would do Catz, the way he stated his views there was a bit inappropriate because he was basically saying he is much better then Catz and that complexity viewed them as the same.. however I think Naniwa is an honest person and just says whats on his mind without thinking twice about it, so we can't hold anything against him for that.
However when Catz replied in this topic, he made a lot of personal attacks towards Naniwa whilst calling him a friend.. Catz if he was really your friend you wouldn't of said all those things about him, true or not you do not say things like that about friends.. It seemed like you really wanted to diminish Naniwa's reputation even more. I think your feelings may have been hurt when Naniwa used you as an example, but you shouldn't of got so angry over that.. the fact is he is a much better player than you and he has the wins under his belt, so if he goes around saying he is better than you, you shouldn't feel insulted.
It just seems to me like Catz is being a little envious of Naniwa
I should stop replying to posts like this but i guess this will be my last one.
Even though as you said, and as everyone knows, naniwa is a way better player then Catz. But that's not really what nani said, he just said that coL values 5k viewers as much as a top finish in MLG. There is no doubt in my mind that he used catz as an example simply because he is really the only one in coL with even close to this many viewers, am i right?
I don't know why catz replied, if he felt offended or something. Don't think he should though, since nothing bad about him was actually said...
Nothing has to be said, personal insecurity and jealousy can be difficult beasts to tame; the bigger your ego, the harder it is and judging from watching CatZ's stream, he is quite the confident SC2 player.
In any cut-throat business where there are a fuckton of good people competing but only with a handful of cream-of-the-crop individuals achieving success, there are bound to be occurrences of the inevitable ugly manifestation of human nature. Especially in SC2, where players are separated by the narrowest of benchmarks and margins near the top, I would actually be surprised if another player actually said anything good about Niniwa from Complexity.
When I look up to a player like MvP, I admire him because our relative skill in sc2 settles at a 1:10000 ratio. But can the same be said for all his teammates and peers? I'm pretty sure envy, bitterness at their personal lack of success and arrogance (spawning from being, although worst than 1/100000 people, better than 99999/100000 people) would be the dominant emotions over admiration.
I don't fault people for when they act upon these emotions because I've experienced and done the same thing in the music field, but it's pretty clear what had transpired so let's move on.
Agreed. To me, it felt like the hidden insults thrown in clearly showed that Catz was hugely affected by Naniwa's comments and that Catz felt like he had to answer back but wanted to maintain a good image so put in crap like "friend" and all that.
And i never liked Naniwa since the nestea scandal but i got to be with him on this. He didn't insult anyone, gave his opinions straight up but the other party kept putting in veiled insults at him in their official statements. I suppose some part of it is true that Naniwa may not be the easiest person to get along with, but your a professional gaming organisation.
A professional gaming organisation should just say "we have our differences and move on" kind of thing. If they wanted to rebut Naniwa's comments, they should have pulled out actual facts + reasoning and not just shit on Naniwa's character in public. I don't know but i felt Complexity handled this really badly and that has left a bad impression on me.
. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
They do care the same way, just not to the same extent. It's ridiculous to think that NaNi thought that he had exactly quantified the amount that Complexity values a tournament placement and the amount they value stream viewers and determined that a 2nd place finish in a tournament is exactly equal to 5000 stream viewers (and then equalized salaries based on one instance?). There are so many things wrong with that interpretation that it's absolutely absurd to entertain it for even a second. To the extent that that interpretation is absurd, the other interpretation is obvious: the type of value tournament placements and stream viewers have is similar. Both are a lot of exposure. Complexity values exposure. The difference between the two is that one requires a lot more skill at the game than the other. We all know that NaNi values skill and results over everything. So NaNi values the tournament placement and he doesn't value the stream viewers. This is all completely obvious to anyone with the slightest clue about NaNi's priorities and how teams like Complexity work.
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
It is easy to see that Naniwa has the social skills of a 5-8 year old. I doubt the relationship he has with his new team will last very long at all, just like all top players they only stay at the top for so long and Naniwa is not building anything in which to maintain his persona for the future. So no results for Naniwa equates to no team or future in esport, which is deserving.
On December 12 2011 01:23 syllogism wrote: So when does someone reach a point when they can be held accountable for their behaviour? Are we just supposed to be pretend there is no issue? Clearly all the teams who might be interested in hiring him have to know about it and then it's basically an open secret at best. This is of course assuming what has been said or implied is true.
Accountable to whom? The people who need to know know and what occurred is in the end purely between Naniwa, coL and QxG.
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Everything that comes out of Naniwa's mouth has to be "translated" to be properly understood. Calling Nestea an idiot..."well he didn't mean he was an idiot of course not, its the language barrier." The time of people obfuscating all of Naniwa's words should be at an end and while a truly amazing player it needs to be understood that Naniwa is a complete joke socially and should not be sheltered from scrutiny in this regard.
. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
They do care the same way, just not to the same extent. It's ridiculous to think that NaNi thought that he had exactly quantified the amount that Complexity values a tournament placement and the amount they value stream viewers and determined that a 2nd place finish in a tournament is exactly equal to 5000 stream viewers. There are so many things wrong with that interpretation that it's absolutely absurd to entertain it for even a second. To the extent that that interpretation is absurd, the other interpretation is obvious: the type of value tournament placements and stream viewers have is similar. Both are a lot of exposure. Complexity values exposure. The difference between the two is that one requires a lot more skill at the game than the other. We all know that NaNi values skill and results over everything. So NaNi values the tournament placement and he doesn't value the stream viewers. This is all completely obvious to anyone with the slightest clue about NaNi's priorities and how teams like Complexity work.
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
as always a wall of text that only repeats itself over and over and over.
skill should be the most important thing in sc2. if you are highly skilled and get terrible viewership its the teams job to fix that. naniwa could easily have been portrayed as an idra figure if coL could twist it to a positive. you think destiny is any good? he gets more viewers then you and while you both dont win tournys you are a better player. is that fair? no its not but i dont seem teamliquid trying to remedy this problem as coL also did not.
naniwa has a WINNERS mentality can that be said for most pros? i bet currently you yourself and most of TL (TLO can be quoted saying this) just want to finish in a top spot. he doesnt care about 1st to the level naniwa cares. there is something to be said for someone who strives for the best and nothing short but you all see this as arrogance. this is perceived as this because most of the population doesnt know what its like to be good at the thing they look up to. this leads to jealousy and ignorance thats derived from this lack of understanding or relation.
naniwa should be treated as a champion untill he no longer deserves it and if a team doesnt do that then good luck having e sports grow. you NEED larger then life figures for esports to become a household name. you NEED these demi god figures if you want kids to watch and play games instead of ball sports. im surprised you have such little vision but yet post such a wall of text. this isnt about naniwa this is about esports and what it means to be the best players of that game
. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
They do care the same way, just not to the same extent. It's ridiculous to think that NaNi thought that he had exactly quantified the amount that Complexity values a tournament placement and the amount they value stream viewers and determined that a 2nd place finish in a tournament is exactly equal to 5000 stream viewers (and then equalized salaries based on one instance?). There are so many things wrong with that interpretation that it's absolutely absurd to entertain it for even a second. To the extent that that interpretation is absurd, the other interpretation is obvious: the type of value tournament placements and stream viewers have is similar. Both are a lot of exposure. Complexity values exposure. The difference between the two is that one requires a lot more skill at the game than the other. We all know that NaNi values skill and results over everything. So NaNi values the tournament placement and he doesn't value the stream viewers. This is all completely obvious to anyone with the slightest clue about NaNi's priorities and how teams like Complexity work.
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Brilliantly eloquent and strictly rational.
I am an exclusive lurker on the forums but this just deserves a post - nay, a goddamn standing ovation!
The more I think about this, the less I care about who said what. To me that isn't really the issue. The fact that people interpret what Complexity said as too far or what Catz said as being completely overboard... I don't know. Expecting fans of anything to be rational is just unrealistic, and I know everyone has a different biased opinion of what happened and how things happened and what people's tones were.
From my perspective Naniwa completely tried to shift the blame from himself and make the situation seem like anything other than what it was. Kyle whatever his name is from Complexity didn't need to say what he did in the way that he did. Catz didn't either. But to make the argument that they shouldn't have said anything at all is just ridiculous. That they should have stayed quiet and let the community share Naniwa's fantasy about what happened. Or that they should have said something but differently. That ESFI shouldn't have hopped on the sensationalist bandwagon so quickly. But I'm sure there's plenty of rabid Naniwa fans that feel that he just tried to tell the truth and that Complexity just needlessly badmouthed and trashed him over and over, or any and every other variation that they're POSITIVE is the truth about what happened. I expect that.
In the end though, as a community, regardless of who you're a fan of, you should demand that issues stay in between those parties and NO ONE should spread shit, or you should grab everyone's view point involved. To sit and say, "I want this player's viewpoint because it's obviously the truth and no one else better say anything about it or contradict it in the slightest"...it's just ignorant. It's willful ignorance.
I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm not calling him a liar. I think every and anyone can stand to say, "Maybe there was a bit of miscommunication everywhere in sharing the story from everyone's viewpoint."
I guess just what I'm trying to get at is...whether your a fan, an outsider, a lurker, someone's white knight, or any and everything else...Listen. Whether you think someone's rebuttal or information is wrong or too harsh or whatever. Listen to each other and actually think about viewpoints other than what you're immediately positive is correct, and understand why people are saying the things they are saying. Look at things from the other person's perspective than just who you're rooting for. This is 34 pages now of just stupid, from myself included.
You had the first paragraph so right, and the second so wrong. The majority of people in this thread are taking NaNiwa at his word; more than that, they're taking it as gospel even after people who know better have corrected them! He says there were money issues, he says coL valued Catz's stream and his own MG performance equally, CatZ says there are behavior issues but that NaNi still gets triple his salary. Somehow the result of this is posts like:
respect the fact that he has a pair and doesn't give us some flimsy excuse or bs about why he switched.
I like CatZ and I watch him all the time but I don't agree with stream viewer count being equivalent to a MLG placing of 2nd, especially at Nationals.
It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc.
What's the interpretation we're missing here? How would you like us to explain away NaNiwa saying that money was part of the reason why he left (leaving aside that he had very little choice in the matter) AND complaining that his performances aren't valued enough?
On December 12 2011 02:00 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Argh, Tyler...
You had the first paragraph so right, and the second so wrong. The majority of people in this thread are taking NaNiwa at his word; more than that, they're taking it as gospel even after people who know better have corrected them! He says there were money issues, he says coL valued Catz's stream and his own MG performance equally, CatZ says there are behavior issues but that NaNi still gets triple his salary. Somehow the result of this is posts like:
It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc.
What's the interpretation we're missing here? How would you like us to explain away NaNiwa saying that money was part of the reason why he left (leaving aside that he had very little choice in the matter) AND complaining that his performances aren't valued enough?
Umm, how about he was displeased on multiple accounts with his coL deal, and when they basically said gtfo he had no qualms about joining another organization Its really not that big of a leap.
On December 12 2011 01:47 Angel_ wrote: In the end though, as a community, regardless of who you're a fan of, you should demand that issues stay in between those parties and NO ONE should spread shit, or you should grab everyone's view point involved. To sit and say, "I want this player's viewpoint because it's obviously the truth and no one else better say anything about it or contradict it in the slightest"...it's just ignorant. It's willful ignorance.
There are a few issues with this, though.
1. Transparency is needed so that the community can learn more about the people and organizations involved in our scene, and so that we know whom we can trust, and whom we shouldn't really support (obviously that's up to everyone to decide for themselves). Sadly, the amount of bullshit that goes on in a scene is always directly proportional to the amount of money being thrown into it. As ugly and irritating as it is to hear/read, it's very healthy for the scene that people and organizations receive public backlash for doing things that the fans dislike, especially if they're actually making money off of the scene.
2. You can't grab both view points when the view points are mutually conflicting. In that case, one side of the story does not contribute to the other and make you any less ignorant if you were to acknowledge both. You need to examine the circumstances and the context to figure out who is moire likely to be telling the truth, or on the other hand - who benefits more from creatively interpreting the truth. You don't have to be a fan of either Naniwa and Complexity, or initially biased in any other way, or even care about the issue at all to reach your own conclusion on which side of the story is more suspicious.
On December 12 2011 02:00 LuckoftheIrish wrote: What's the interpretation we're missing here? How would you like us to explain away NaNiwa saying that money was part of the reason why he left (leaving aside that he had very little choice in the matter) AND complaining that his performances aren't valued enough?
Not being valued enough does not necessarily imply not being rewarded financially and part of the reason is not the whole reason. Complexity obviously did not value him enough as a player - hence they were willing to part with him so easily - regardless of whether they were paying him appropriately or not. It is safe to assume that this relationship was never healthy to begin with.
. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
They do care the same way, just not to the same extent. It's ridiculous to think that NaNi thought that he had exactly quantified the amount that Complexity values a tournament placement and the amount they value stream viewers and determined that a 2nd place finish in a tournament is exactly equal to 5000 stream viewers (and then equalized salaries based on one instance?). There are so many things wrong with that interpretation that it's absolutely absurd to entertain it for even a second. To the extent that that interpretation is absurd, the other interpretation is obvious: the type of value tournament placements and stream viewers have is similar. Both are a lot of exposure. Complexity values exposure. The difference between the two is that one requires a lot more skill at the game than the other. We all know that NaNi values skill and results over everything. So NaNi values the tournament placement and he doesn't value the stream viewers. This is all completely obvious to anyone with the slightest clue about NaNi's priorities and how teams like Complexity work.
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pretty much this, seems like a lot of people are making really exagerated interpretations of NaNis statement.
On December 12 2011 01:47 Angel_ wrote: In the end though, as a community, regardless of who you're a fan of, you should demand that issues stay in between those parties and NO ONE should spread shit, or you should grab everyone's view point involved. To sit and say, "I want this player's viewpoint because it's obviously the truth and no one else better say anything about it or contradict it in the slightest"...it's just ignorant. It's willful ignorance.
There are a few issues with this, though.
1. Transparency is needed so that the community can learn more about the people and organizations involved in our scene, and so that we know whom we can trust, and whom we shouldn't really support (obviously that's up to everyone to decide for themselves). Sadly, the amount of bullshit that goes on in a scene is always directly proportional to the amount of money being thrown into it. As ugly and irritating as it is to hear/read, it's very healthy for the scene that people and organizations receive public backlash for doing things that the fans dislike, especially if they're actually making money off of the scene.
2. You can't grab both view points when the view points are mutually conflicting. In that case, one side of the story does not contribute to the other and make you any less ignorant if you were to acknowledge both. You need to examine the circumstances and the context to figure out who is moire likely to be telling the truth, or on the other hand - who benefits more from creatively interpreting the truth. You don't have to be a fan of either Naniwa and Complexity, or initially biased in any other way, or even care about the issue at all to reach your own conclusion on which side of the story is more suspicious.
I'm not disagreeing with either point your making. If anything i think you sort of are repeating me a little differently, unless I'm drastically misunderstanding you.
I'm not saying people shouldn't criticize how things are reported or anything remotely to that effect either. My point really, simply, is that there's way too much blind bias and accepting, and not enough examining and listening. That doesn't mean grabbing both, but, at least considering both and looking at it as objectively as one can while obviously biased and at least considering other perspectives. Which, I believe, is your entire second point. Which is...basically a summary of what i tried to say. I think?
Well now i guess i take my previous posts back on Naniwa, it seems now that his social skills are really showing as lack luster and his will to win is overshadowing his ability to do well at his JOB. He doesn't get it and there is no amount of drama tht will change the fact that he just doesn't understand that for any team to work it has to get money through views, sponsorships etc. If he wants to win thats great but it seems like thats all he cares about which is not healthy for any team to have a person who doesn't want to work cohesively except for his own gain. the point of a team house is to do better together, something Nani seems to not have now.
P.S. i am not up to date on ALL Nani drama, does anyone want to put a timeline or a description (objectively) of all that has happened?
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Everything that comes out of Naniwa's mouth has to be "translated" to be properly understood. Calling Nestea an idiot..."well he didn't mean he was an idiot of course not, its the language barrier." The time of people obfuscating all of Naniwa's words should be at an end and while a truly amazing player it needs to be understood that Naniwa is a complete joke socially and should not be sheltered from scrutiny in this regard.
You're welcome. The next time people are obfuscating his words, I'll clear things up again like I did here.
On December 12 2011 01:47 Angel_ wrote: In the end though, as a community, regardless of who you're a fan of, you should demand that issues stay in between those parties and NO ONE should spread shit, or you should grab everyone's view point involved. To sit and say, "I want this player's viewpoint because it's obviously the truth and no one else better say anything about it or contradict it in the slightest"...it's just ignorant. It's willful ignorance.
There are a few issues with this, though.
1. Transparency is needed so that the community can learn more about the people and organizations involved in our scene, and so that we know whom we can trust, and whom we shouldn't really support (obviously that's up to everyone to decide for themselves). Sadly, the amount of bullshit that goes on in a scene is always directly proportional to the amount of money being thrown into it. As ugly and irritating as it is to hear/read, it's very healthy for the scene that people and organizations receive public backlash for doing things that the fans dislike, especially if they're actually making money off of the scene.
2. You can't grab both view points when the view points are mutually conflicting. In that case, one side of the story does not contribute to the other and make you any less ignorant if you were to acknowledge both. You need to examine the circumstances and the context to figure out who is moire likely to be telling the truth, or on the other hand - who benefits more from creatively interpreting the truth. You don't have to be a fan of either Naniwa and Complexity, or initially biased in any other way, or even care about the issue at all to reach your own conclusion on which side of the story is more suspicious.
I'm not disagreeing with either point your making. If anything i think you sort of are repeating me a little differently, unless I'm drastically misunderstanding you.
My point really, simply, is that there's way too much blind bias and accepting, and not enough examining and listening. That doesn't mean grabbing both, but, at least considering both and looking at it as objectively as one can while obviously biased and at least considering other perspectives. I'm not saying people shouldn't criticize how things are reported or anything remotely to that effect either. Which, I believe, is your entire second point. Which is...basically a summary of what i tried to say.
That is not how I interpreted your post, but in that case we agree.
meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
On December 12 2011 02:20 Detri wrote: meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
And plenty of people get mad at sports players who move elsewhere for better money and perhaps a better chance at winning a championship while dissing their former team.
On December 12 2011 02:20 Detri wrote: meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
And plenty of people get mad at sports players who move elsewhere for better money and perhaps a better chance at winning a championship while dissing their former team.
I don't feel like that stereotype can be applied to this case at all.
Complexity was never really Nani's "team" to begin with, there was very little attachment between the two. Apart from people who are diehard Complexity fans, I see no reason why anybody would look at things from that specific angle and be angry at Nani because of that.
On December 12 2011 02:20 Detri wrote: meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
And plenty of people get mad at sports players who move elsewhere for better money and perhaps a better chance at winning a championship while dissing their former team.
this is what is wrong with fans. have you ever played sports? it sucks to play with a bad team. my basketball team was complete ($&*#$# at my school while my aau team was the best in the state. i HATED my schools team and anyone who was good transfered away from that school. this is what GOOD players do. they want to be around other good players.
if you dont play sports or suck at most things you do this concept is lost on you. players want to win. you shouldnt want to watch players that dont want to win. yes dream teams are stupid, yes they ruin the entertainment value of the rest of the league but sc2 is a 1 person deal. who cares if naniwa joins EG it doesnt matter because the current problem isnt that players join "only 1 team" (this is not the case) the problem is teams dont pay star players well
look at liquid. they lost huk, didnt pay him enough. sorry if you wana be with the big dogs you gota pay the big dog costs
My take on the thing is that basically Nani felt lonely and like he didn't fit in. When people feel like that generally they are going to do something about it, so he switched teams. Ofc in order to motivate this he needed some rational basis, which turns the entire thing into a "they said i said"-scenario in which both sides subjectively think they are right and, objectively, both sides probably are to some extent. In a while they will probably be able to think more objectively of it and stuff will calm down.
Problem is when it goes public and everyone focuses on the rational side of things since that is what can be discussed. Which is why I think they shouldn't have said anything to begin with except for the "I felt lonely" part, which really can't start a discussion of the same magnitude...
truthfully i don't care enough to lambast nani for what he said or has said. they are just words and aren't that heavy to me. i do think it's absurd that people are at least not conceding that he is, at best, confusing.
it's a listener's fault if they clearly mishear what is said or don't take the time to listen to the whole story, but this isn't the case with nani. he's got people defending him, talking about context and second languages and what he really meant, but it's clear in this interview that he implied some things, purposely or not, about coL that were disputed by at least 1 member of coL.
essentially saying "we'd have to know him" is retarded. it's like getting mad when someone doesn't understand an inside joke. outsiders aren't privy to the quirks of naniwa, and they shouldn't have to be when listening to an interview for the public. as for respect, no one is criticizing his play. they are criticizing him for putting his foot in his mouth (whether he actually did or not is always up for debate it seems). nani should be ok with it, right?
On December 12 2011 02:28 careohx wrote: Disregarding the Naniwa stuff I still dont like coL's approach to SC2.
Yeah, I've sorta gotten tired of all the "he said she said" argument but I have definitely settled on this. I've also decided that EVERYONE (players and managers alike) need to get a little PR training if they're going to be allowed to speak freely.
On December 12 2011 02:20 Detri wrote: meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
And plenty of people get mad at sports players who move elsewhere for better money and perhaps a better chance at winning a championship while dissing their former team.
this is what is wrong with fans. have you ever played sports? it sucks to play with a bad team. my basketball team was complete ($&*#$# at my school while my aau team was the best in the state. i HATED my schools team and anyone who was good transfered away from that school. this is what GOOD players do. they want to be around other good players.
if you dont play sports or suck at most things you do this concept is lost on you. players want to win. you shouldnt want to watch players that dont want to win. yes dream teams are stupid, yes they ruin the entertainment value of the rest of the league but sc2 is a 1 person deal. who cares if naniwa joins EG it doesnt matter because the current problem isnt that players join "only 1 team" (this is not the case) the problem is teams dont pay star players well
look at liquid. they lost huk, didnt pay him enough. sorry if you wana be with the big dogs you gota pay the big dog costs
I was replying to someone who basically said "well sports players transfer teams for the most money so don't hate on Nani for doing the same thing". When in fact there is backlash by fans in both cases. Further, there are a ton of players in professional sports (I'm mostly just familiar with hockey) who don't just sell their teams out to the highest bidder or best team. Rick Nash, Jarome Iginla, Eric Staal, Shea Weber, etc. etc. Also it's a bit arrogant that you start your argument with "if you suck at most things you don't understand".
If you think it's fine to diss your previous team and switch to different teams frequently, go for it. But if you really don't understand why some people are pissed that he disses his old team and implicitly his teammates, I think you're trying a bit too hard to turn a blind eye.
I dont think I totally get the catz comment, by naniwa. I dont know how things work at Col and this is clearly a bad situation with the multiple situations. But the way I see it is it is catz role on the team to get 1000+ viewers on his stream it how he advertises and contributes to the team. Naniwas purpose was to go out and win. Each player has a certain purpose to the team I feel yes the goal should be tournament focused but the reality is it isn't. Just my .02
On December 12 2011 02:20 Detri wrote: meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
And plenty of people get mad at sports players who move elsewhere for better money and perhaps a better chance at winning a championship while dissing their former team.
this is what is wrong with fans. have you ever played sports? it sucks to play with a bad team. my basketball team was complete ($&*#$# at my school while my aau team was the best in the state. i HATED my schools team and anyone who was good transfered away from that school. this is what GOOD players do. they want to be around other good players.
if you dont play sports or suck at most things you do this concept is lost on you. players want to win. you shouldnt want to watch players that dont want to win. yes dream teams are stupid, yes they ruin the entertainment value of the rest of the league but sc2 is a 1 person deal. who cares if naniwa joins EG it doesnt matter because the current problem isnt that players join "only 1 team" (this is not the case) the problem is teams dont pay star players well
look at liquid. they lost huk, didnt pay him enough. sorry if you wana be with the big dogs you gota pay the big dog costs
I was replying to someone who basically said "well sports players transfer teams for the most money so don't hate on Nani for doing the same thing". When in fact there is backlash by fans in both cases. Further, there are a ton of players in professional sports (I'm mostly just familiar with hockey) who don't just sell their teams out to the highest bidder or best team. Rick Nash, Jarome Iginla, Eric Staal, Shea Weber, etc. etc. Also it's a bit arrogant that you start your argument with "if you suck at most things you don't understand".
If you think it's fine to diss your previous team and switch to different teams frequently, go for it. But if you really don't understand why some people are pissed that he disses his old team and implicitly his teammates, I think you're trying a bit too hard to turn a blind eye.
most people just are not competitive. its surprising to see starcraft so popular since 1 its a hard to play game that requires THINKING and 2 its competition based.... naniwa wants to win and when he wins he wants to get paid. catz wont ever win anything ever and so he shouldnt even be at 1/6th what naniwa makes. naniwa needed to have coL make him more popular and stream games so he can not only win tournys but be popular and make more money. coL didnt and doesnt support talent isnt this obvious with stephano as well?
On December 12 2011 03:02 Remfire wrote: I dont think I totally get the catz comment, by naniwa. I dont know how things work at Col and this is clearly a bad situation with the multiple situations. But the way I see it is it is catz role on the team to get 1000+ viewers on his stream it how he advertises and contributes to the team. Naniwas purpose was to go out and win. Each player has a certain purpose to the team I feel yes the goal should be tournament focused but the reality is it isn't. Just my .02
You realize you just explained the reasons that NaNi decided to join Quantic to yourself? He commented that the "reality" at Complexity wasn't one that he agreed with and sought a team that would reward him for results. I'd be interested to hear if Quantic plans to reward players based on their results as well? They have Destiny after all, who is like the Catz of Quantic...so I think that this reason is really secondary to him wanting to be around non-Korean players. He also preferred the Startale house more than the MVP house. These are intangible things and really don't show anything negative about the player or either teams.
On December 12 2011 02:20 Detri wrote: meh, its a free market guys. You sell your "labour" for the most you can get for it. If NaNi can get more money with another team, go for it, if he can get better practice with another team, well.... all the better.
It's no different to what happens in other professional sports the only difference is no many footballers transfer 3 times in 1 month. Still I hope NaNi continues to improve and do well in tournaments. glhfgg.
And plenty of people get mad at sports players who move elsewhere for better money and perhaps a better chance at winning a championship while dissing their former team.
this is what is wrong with fans. have you ever played sports? it sucks to play with a bad team. my basketball team was complete ($&*#$# at my school while my aau team was the best in the state. i HATED my schools team and anyone who was good transfered away from that school. this is what GOOD players do. they want to be around other good players.
if you dont play sports or suck at most things you do this concept is lost on you. players want to win. you shouldnt want to watch players that dont want to win. yes dream teams are stupid, yes they ruin the entertainment value of the rest of the league but sc2 is a 1 person deal. who cares if naniwa joins EG it doesnt matter because the current problem isnt that players join "only 1 team" (this is not the case) the problem is teams dont pay star players well
look at liquid. they lost huk, didnt pay him enough. sorry if you wana be with the big dogs you gota pay the big dog costs
I was replying to someone who basically said "well sports players transfer teams for the most money so don't hate on Nani for doing the same thing". When in fact there is backlash by fans in both cases. Further, there are a ton of players in professional sports (I'm mostly just familiar with hockey) who don't just sell their teams out to the highest bidder or best team. Rick Nash, Jarome Iginla, Eric Staal, Shea Weber, etc. etc. Also it's a bit arrogant that you start your argument with "if you suck at most things you don't understand".
If you think it's fine to diss your previous team and switch to different teams frequently, go for it. But if you really don't understand why some people are pissed that he disses his old team and implicitly his teammates, I think you're trying a bit too hard to turn a blind eye.
most people just are not competitive. its surprising to see starcraft so popular since 1 its a hard to play game that requires THINKING and 2 its competition based.... naniwa wants to win and when he wins he wants to get paid. catz wont ever win anything ever and so he shouldnt even be at 1/6th what naniwa makes. naniwa needed to have coL make him more popular and stream games so he can not only win tournys but be popular and make more money. coL didnt and doesnt support talent isnt this obvious with stephano as well?
Did we ever learned what really happened with Stephano's contract breach? Last I heard all the smart people were just saying to wait and see cause we didn't know what was going on.
Actually when you think about it, he started streaming shortly after joining coL, probably them that made him stream when they are cleary that into it.
On December 12 2011 03:02 Remfire wrote: I dont think I totally get the catz comment, by naniwa. I dont know how things work at Col and this is clearly a bad situation with the multiple situations. But the way I see it is it is catz role on the team to get 1000+ viewers on his stream it how he advertises and contributes to the team. Naniwas purpose was to go out and win. Each player has a certain purpose to the team I feel yes the goal should be tournament focused but the reality is it isn't. Just my .02
You realize you just explained the reasons that NaNi decided to join Quantic to yourself? He commented that the "reality" at Complexity wasn't one that he agreed with and sought a team that would reward him for results. I'd be interested to hear if Quantic plans to reward players based on their results as well? They have Destiny after all, who is like the Catz of Quantic...so I think that this reason is really secondary to him wanting to be around non-Korean players. He also preferred the Startale house more than the MVP house. These are intangible things and really don't show anything negative about the player or either teams.
I think you make a really good point about the rewarding for winning. Do other teams do that, I am curious as well if that is a perk they through in to ensure Nani to there team. As for the comment about intangible things, that really dont show anything negative about the player or either teams, I feel that when a team is making comments on reddit and a player has to tell his side there is a lot of negativity there and a lack of professional finesse.
. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
They do care the same way, just not to the same extent. It's ridiculous to think that NaNi thought that he had exactly quantified the amount that Complexity values a tournament placement and the amount they value stream viewers and determined that a 2nd place finish in a tournament is exactly equal to 5000 stream viewers (and then equalized salaries based on one instance?). There are so many things wrong with that interpretation that it's absolutely absurd to entertain it for even a second. To the extent that that interpretation is absurd, the other interpretation is obvious: the type of value tournament placements and stream viewers have is similar. Both are a lot of exposure. Complexity values exposure. The difference between the two is that one requires a lot more skill at the game than the other. We all know that NaNi values skill and results over everything. So NaNi values the tournament placement and he doesn't value the stream viewers. This is all completely obvious to anyone with the slightest clue about NaNi's priorities and how teams like Complexity work.
To think that catz's salary compared to naniwa's salary is relevant to nani's statement is the incorrect line of thinking. Everyone has realized how absurd it is and then turned that on NaNi, saying he's absurd and bullshitting us to say that. Stop for a second and check back to NaNi's words and realize that they are ambiguous and not exclusively indicating this absurd interpretation. Yes, they leave that interpretation open but they also leave open a completely reasonable and normal interpretation. Have some fucking respect and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Nani hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. If anything he's earned the exact opposite by his actions on diff teams, what we've heard from diff ex-teammates and from his actions in tournies.
On December 12 2011 03:02 Remfire wrote: I dont think I totally get the catz comment, by naniwa. I dont know how things work at Col and this is clearly a bad situation with the multiple situations. But the way I see it is it is catz role on the team to get 1000+ viewers on his stream it how he advertises and contributes to the team. Naniwas purpose was to go out and win. Each player has a certain purpose to the team I feel yes the goal should be tournament focused but the reality is it isn't. Just my .02
You realize you just explained the reasons that NaNi decided to join Quantic to yourself? He commented that the "reality" at Complexity wasn't one that he agreed with and sought a team that would reward him for results. I'd be interested to hear if Quantic plans to reward players based on their results as well? They have Destiny after all, who is like the Catz of Quantic...so I think that this reason is really secondary to him wanting to be around non-Korean players. He also preferred the Startale house more than the MVP house. These are intangible things and really don't show anything negative about the player or either teams.
I think you make a really good point about the rewarding for winning. Do other teams do that, I am curious as well if that is a perk they through in to ensure Nani to there team. As for the comment about intangible things, that really dont show anything negative about the player or either teams, I feel that when a team is making comments on reddit and a player has to tell his side there is a lot of negativity there and a lack of professional finesse.
Ah, I have to confess that I don't really browse reddit very often. Then, you may be right about the negativity.
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
This is a pretty terrible post:
- Do you know why Stephano left CoL?
- Why did QxG pick up Destiny? Because he is going to win GSL?
- What makes Drewbie/Minigun/Trimaster "etc" exposure-type players? Is everyone who isn't challenging for 1st place at every tourny suddenly an exposure-type? Is every team expected to have 3-5 of these players then? QxG only has 2, including nani...
On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote: This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
B/c this is a business. The money that he is getting doesn't fall from the fucking sky. The sooner people realize this the sooner SC2 will grow into its true potential.
On December 11 2011 14:33 LunaSea wrote: Naniwa fighting ~ !
One of the greatest overall Starcraft II players !
@On_Slaugh : Like what player ? The only good player (player that won tournaments) that I can think of is Idra, and the only reason he has so many viewers is because he's bad mannered most of the time.
Pretty much any top player. Huk, Neastea, Puma, Hero. Just be somebody good who isn't socially inept the second they put a camera in front of your face.
If you want better examples, look at BW. That is how it should be done. They really build up the player personalities.
Where is the actual controversy in this discussion?
Naniwa is apparently switching teams because he wants to be on a team which is more results-focussed and less popularity/business focussed. And play with different teammates, as a side-effect. coLs statement also emphasizes a difference between naniwas and coLs philosophy. The resulting split seems to be a perfectly reasonable action from both parties.
Is the need to randomly hate on players/orgs so high that people even do it without any reason? Did tv suspend some popular reality soap or wth is going on here..?
On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote: This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
B/c this is a business. The money that he is getting doesn't fall from the fucking sky. The sooner people realize this the sooner SC2 will grow into its true potential.
Actually we need more good players that have fans because they are awesome players not because they talk alot and show up on shows/commercials. You know, like in regular sports.
Nothing but respect for Naniwa. It really looks like he made the right decision.If he wants to be a great player, he can't be sitting in the MVP house with no one to practice with. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that being on quantic he will get more practice and be happier, not to mention the fact that it seems he will get more money. I dont see how people can argue naniwa's decision.
On December 12 2011 04:18 JustPassingBy wrote: I know this is kind of off topic, but... what's that with the new house of startale? would love to hear about that!
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
This is a pretty terrible post:
- Do you know why Stephano left CoL?
- Why did QxG pick up Destiny? Because he is going to win GSL?
- What makes Drewbie/Minigun/Trimaster "etc" exposure-type players? Is everyone who isn't challenging for 1st place at every tourny suddenly an exposure-type? Is every team expected to have 3-5 of these players then? QxG only has 2, including nani...
1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
2. QxG probably picked up Destiny because he brings so much attention. They also picked up SaSe and Naniwa, so there is still a balance towards performance. I don't blame teams for picking up players like Destiny or Catz. If you only have players like that, that is also fine with me (which CoL has). However, if you then pick up a player who is only results-oriented, don't expect it to work out if you attempt to convert him to value exposure (such as streaming) over practice and results. It is simply poor management, in my opinion.
3. If I write out the proper word for it I would likely get a temp ban or warning so I'll just say that some people crave attention, interacting and having a good time over practice and results. Again, this isn't a bad thing, it is just a different mindset. A mindset which obviously do not go hand in hand with players such as Naniwa or Stephano.
As a result of the mindset the later type of players often are the type to win tournaments but it doesn't mean that you have to be a contender to be a results oriented players. To name an opposing zerg player to Catz of similar skill, an example would be Naugrim. He doesn't at all care about attention or fan interaction, he only practices as much as possible and wants to become better. As I said, both takes on Starcraft are fine with me.
You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa? It's quite apparent that you can't be reasoned with and will not budge, so I'm not under any illusion that your reply to this will be any different so may as well not bother.
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
This is a pretty terrible post:
- Do you know why Stephano left CoL?
- Why did QxG pick up Destiny? Because he is going to win GSL?
- What makes Drewbie/Minigun/Trimaster "etc" exposure-type players? Is everyone who isn't challenging for 1st place at every tourny suddenly an exposure-type? Is every team expected to have 3-5 of these players then? QxG only has 2, including nani...
1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
2. QxG probably picked up Destiny because he brings so much attention. They also picked up SaSe and Naniwa, so there is still a balance towards performance. I don't blame teams for picking up players like Destiny or Catz. If you only have players like that, that is also fine with me (which CoL has). However, if you then pick up a player who is only results-oriented, don't expect it to work out if you attempt to convert him to value exposure (such as streaming) over practice and results. It is simply poor management, in my opinion.
3. If I write out the proper word for it I would likely get a temp ban or warning so I'll just say that some people crave attention, interacting and having a good time over practice and results. Again, this isn't a bad thing, it is just a different mindset. A mindset which obviously do not go hand in hand with players such as Naniwa or Stephano.
As a result of the mindset the later type of players often are the type to win tournaments but it doesn't mean that you have to be a contender to be a results oriented players. To name an opposing zerg player to Catz of similar skill, an example would be Naugrim. He doesn't at all care about attention or fan interaction, he only practices as much as possible and wants to become better. As I said, both takes on Starcraft are fine with me.
Destiny is actually training very hard. He's gearing up to deliver results and not just viewers.
QxG probably picked him up because they saw a lot of potential and the drive to perform and they knew they could give him the tools to get better. The tremendous exposure he provides was icing on a delicious destiny cake.
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
This is a pretty terrible post:
- Do you know why Stephano left CoL?
- Why did QxG pick up Destiny? Because he is going to win GSL?
- What makes Drewbie/Minigun/Trimaster "etc" exposure-type players? Is everyone who isn't challenging for 1st place at every tourny suddenly an exposure-type? Is every team expected to have 3-5 of these players then? QxG only has 2, including nani...
1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
2. QxG probably picked up Destiny because he brings so much attention. They also picked up SaSe and Naniwa, so there is still a balance towards performance. I don't blame teams for picking up players like Destiny or Catz. If you only have players like that, that is also fine with me (which CoL has). However, if you then pick up a player who is only results-oriented, don't expect it to work out if you attempt to convert him to value exposure (such as streaming) over practice and results. It is simply poor management, in my opinion.
3. If I write out the proper word for it I would likely get a temp ban or warning so I'll just say that some people crave attention, interacting and having a good time over practice and results. Again, this isn't a bad thing, it is just a different mindset. A mindset which obviously do not go hand in hand with players such as Naniwa or Stephano.
As a result of the mindset the later type of players often are the type to win tournaments but it doesn't mean that you have to be a contender to be a results oriented players. To name an opposing zerg player to Catz of similar skill, an example would be Naugrim. He doesn't at all care about attention or fan interaction, he only practices as much as possible and wants to become better. As I said, both takes on Starcraft are fine with me.
Destiny is actually training very hard. He's gearing up to deliver results and not just viewers.
QxG probably picked him up because they saw a lot of potential and the drive to perform and they knew they could give him the tools to get better. The tremendous exposure he provides was icing on a delicious destiny cake.
To add to that; I'm sure that being a better player definately attracts more viewers.
Wait, we're all back to pretending that Stephano's thing with coL represents some sort of failure of Complexity's management? Did I dream the interview with Jason Bass where he talked about getting compensation payments after Stephano breached his contract? http://onemoregame.tv/index.php/archive/lo3/item/260-lo3-089.html
On December 12 2011 05:04 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Wait, we're all back to pretending that Stephano's thing with coL represents some sort of failure of Complexity's management? Did I dream the interview with Jason Bass where he talked about getting compensation payments after Stephano breached his contract? http://onemoregame.tv/index.php/archive/lo3/item/260-lo3-089.html
Not dreaming. I can't remember what interview it was may have been ipl3 or something where stephano admits he used Col to make millennium offer him more money
On December 12 2011 04:26 Paladia wrote: 1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
I don't think the Stephano, or the Naniwa situation are indicators of coL letting these players slip. The situation with each player seems to indicate nothing of the sort. They could have kept Naniwa so not keeping him was a decision they definitely didn't let him slip out of their hands. Naniwa has left many teams and I wouldn't accuse all of them of bad management.
Stephano was signed to two teams. Unless you know more than I do (doubtful) I don't see the relevance of him in this topic regarding the coL management.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
This is a pretty terrible post:
- Do you know why Stephano left CoL?
- Why did QxG pick up Destiny? Because he is going to win GSL?
- What makes Drewbie/Minigun/Trimaster "etc" exposure-type players? Is everyone who isn't challenging for 1st place at every tourny suddenly an exposure-type? Is every team expected to have 3-5 of these players then? QxG only has 2, including nani...
1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
2. QxG probably picked up Destiny because he brings so much attention. They also picked up SaSe and Naniwa, so there is still a balance towards performance. I don't blame teams for picking up players like Destiny or Catz. If you only have players like that, that is also fine with me (which CoL has). However, if you then pick up a player who is only results-oriented, don't expect it to work out if you attempt to convert him to value exposure (such as streaming) over practice and results. It is simply poor management, in my opinion.
3. If I write out the proper word for it I would likely get a temp ban or warning so I'll just say that some people crave attention, interacting and having a good time over practice and results. Again, this isn't a bad thing, it is just a different mindset. A mindset which obviously do not go hand in hand with players such as Naniwa or Stephano.
As a result of the mindset the later type of players often are the type to win tournaments but it doesn't mean that you have to be a contender to be a results oriented players. To name an opposing zerg player to Catz of similar skill, an example would be Naugrim. He doesn't at all care about attention or fan interaction, he only practices as much as possible and wants to become better. As I said, both takes on Starcraft are fine with me.
When there's an Esports Fox News division, be sure to send them your resume.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
On December 12 2011 04:26 Paladia wrote: 1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
I don't think the Stephano, or the Naniwa situation are indicators of coL letting these players slip. The situation with each player seems to indicate nothing of the sort. They could have kept Naniwa so not keeping him was a decision they definitely didn't let him slip out of their hands.
Stephano was signed to two teams. Unless you know more than I do (doubtful) I don't see the relevance of him in this topic.
Taking one single factor into consideration isn't enough. There are several and Stephano is just one of them.
Naniwa being asked to do something which he absolutely hates (streaming) instead of what he wants to do (practice). He has even said that he will never stream again.
Naniwa leaving, Stephano leaving.
Their current line-up is obviously 100% a result of management and their current line-up is filled with the exposure-type player. There is nothing wrong with that, it could be CoL's niche, getting these kinds of players and I am absolutely fine with that. The problem arises when you try to aquire players that are only focused on results and the game itself and then try to get them to put time into exposure instead of doing what they do best (play and focus on tournaments).
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on TL's part?
On December 12 2011 04:26 Paladia wrote: 1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
I don't think the Stephano, or the Naniwa situation are indicators of coL letting these players slip. The situation with each player seems to indicate nothing of the sort. They could have kept Naniwa so not keeping him was a decision they definitely didn't let him slip out of their hands. Naniwa has left many teams and I wouldn't accuse all of them of bad management.
Stephano was signed to two teams. Unless you know more than I do (doubtful) I don't see the relevance of him in this topic regarding the coL management.
In Nani's case, what would be the point of keeping a player if he wasn't happy on and with the team? Complexity may have initiated the transfer but they really had no other reasonable choice.
In Stephano's case, the exact timeline (at least the way it was reported to the public) of events was that Stephano signed with Millenium after being convinced by Millenium people that the Complexity deal wasn't good for him.
In both cases, but especially Nani's case, they also knew exactly who they were signing and what their priorities were as players, what their personalities are like, and so on. They went for the players that they had no personal relationship or connection with (neither the management nor the team), they really didn't look capable of providing them with any kind of team atmosphere and neither player is the smoothest person to work with on a strictly professional level. Basically the "bond" between Col and either Nani or Stephano couldn't possibly be very strong.
Both moves looked like an attempt to buy a superteam overnight, which does look like bad management to me. Both moves actually happened within a week if I remember correctly.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on your part?
how can you be so ignorant? the stephano situation and this one happened under very different circumstances. stop comparing apples to oranges and making unjust accusations.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on TL's part?
Who are all these 'result-oriented' players they have lost? Destiny?
And stop the bs about Stephano, they never really had him to begin with.
On December 11 2011 21:25 Paladia wrote: It is quite apparent that Naniwa is telling the truth about CoL valuing exposure over results. With players such Catz, drewbie, minigun, trimaster etc. The exposure-type of players seems to be on very good terms with the management.
The results-oriented players such as Naniwa or Stephano however, as the facts show, does not work well with the CoL management.
This is a pretty terrible post:
- Do you know why Stephano left CoL?
- Why did QxG pick up Destiny? Because he is going to win GSL?
- What makes Drewbie/Minigun/Trimaster "etc" exposure-type players? Is everyone who isn't challenging for 1st place at every tourny suddenly an exposure-type? Is every team expected to have 3-5 of these players then? QxG only has 2, including nani...
1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
2. QxG probably picked up Destiny because he brings so much attention. They also picked up SaSe and Naniwa, so there is still a balance towards performance. I don't blame teams for picking up players like Destiny or Catz. If you only have players like that, that is also fine with me (which CoL has). However, if you then pick up a player who is only results-oriented, don't expect it to work out if you attempt to convert him to value exposure (such as streaming) over practice and results. It is simply poor management, in my opinion.
3. If I write out the proper word for it I would likely get a temp ban or warning so I'll just say that some people crave attention, interacting and having a good time over practice and results. Again, this isn't a bad thing, it is just a different mindset. A mindset which obviously do not go hand in hand with players such as Naniwa or Stephano.
As a result of the mindset the later type of players often are the type to win tournaments but it doesn't mean that you have to be a contender to be a results oriented players. To name an opposing zerg player to Catz of similar skill, an example would be Naugrim. He doesn't at all care about attention or fan interaction, he only practices as much as possible and wants to become better. As I said, both takes on Starcraft are fine with me.
Destiny is actually training very hard. He's gearing up to deliver results and not just viewers.
QxG probably picked him up because they saw a lot of potential and the drive to perform and they knew they could give him the tools to get better. The tremendous exposure he provides was icing on a delicious destiny cake.
He is not training hard...atleast not until he gets to korea. Because every other time I turn on his stream he is playing LoL.
As for the discussion itself, lots of people always look for people to blame, but things can be mutual. Whether it was or wasn`t isn`t something we will likely find out since we don`t know the entire situation and the teams and players aren`t obligated to let everyone know every single thing.
On December 12 2011 04:26 Paladia wrote: 1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
I don't think the Stephano, or the Naniwa situation are indicators of coL letting these players slip. The situation with each player seems to indicate nothing of the sort. They could have kept Naniwa so not keeping him was a decision they definitely didn't let him slip out of their hands.
Stephano was signed to two teams. Unless you know more than I do (doubtful) I don't see the relevance of him in this topic.
Taking one single factor into consideration isn't enough. There are several and Stephano is just one of them.
Naniwa being asked to do something which he absolutely hates (streaming) instead of what he wants to do (practice). He has even said that he will never stream again.
Naniwa leaving, Stephano leaving.
Their current line-up is obviously 100% a result of management and their current line-up is filled with the exposure-type player. There is nothing wrong with that, it could be CoL's niche, getting these kinds of players and I am absolutely fine with that. The problem arises when you try to aquire players that are only focused on results and the game itself and then try to get them to put time into exposure instead of doing what they do best (play and focus on tournaments).
Naniwa did not leave, he had his contract sold. As stated previously by both CoL and QXG CoL was looking to get rid of naniwa before he talked to QXG or anything, it definitely was not naniwa forcing them to let him go like naiwa fans seem to have spun the story to be.
Stephano was signed to 2 teams because he re-signed with milannium after signing with CoL. Obviously only one team could keep him, and CoL chose to let milannium keep him because they didn't want a player that would be shady ad easily confused and guilted like stephano was.
I think that the no bullshit, in your face and rather brutal honest attitude of Naniwa is hard for a lot of people to handle, as a swede myself it is not so hard as its all around me all the time, its just how we are. Naniwa just happens to have a rather aggressive personality which causes him to have more confrontations then people like Thorzain, Morrow, Sase or Jinro but they all share that plain spoken, brutal honesty.
I think this thread derailed into two sides; People on moral high horses saying Naniwa's personality sucks and shitting all over his face vs Naniwa leghumpers trying to defend Naniwa's internets.
On December 12 2011 07:30 EienShinwa wrote: I think this thread derailed into two sides; People on moral high horses saying Naniwa's personality sucks and shitting all over his face vs Naniwa leghumpers trying to defend Naniwa's internets.
Ah, good thing we have you, our divinely appointed moral superior to rule fairly over these nations and safeguard our values and traditions.
Newsflash, sometimes people are bad at debating and it makes them seem like they're reflexively defending one side. It's easy then to see tribal warfare and fancy yourself above this sort of thing, but it's hardly worth mentioning and is condescending to people in this thread.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
On December 12 2011 04:26 Paladia wrote: 1. Stephano, just like Naniwa, left CoL because he didn't want to be in the team. The team obviously has massive issues when they managed to sign two of the top performers in SC2 yet couldn't keep them in the team for longer than brief period of time. Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are likely the three foreign players with the best results, you don't let players that slip out of your hands, twice, if you have signed them unless you have serious problems within your team or management. They can obviously sign top result players but the top players do not want to stay in their team. Why do you think that is?
I don't think the Stephano, or the Naniwa situation are indicators of coL letting these players slip. The situation with each player seems to indicate nothing of the sort. They could have kept Naniwa so not keeping him was a decision they definitely didn't let him slip out of their hands. Naniwa has left many teams and I wouldn't accuse all of them of bad management.
Stephano was signed to two teams. Unless you know more than I do (doubtful) I don't see the relevance of him in this topic regarding the coL management.
Complexity has unsigned three high profile players in the year 2011 after a very short time on the team (let's stick to SC2 only for the time being). They have all reasonably valid (from the information available) explanations and they are quite distictly different situations, but it seems to stick out a bit at the moment. In my opinion it would be a bit unfair to assume something specifically negative about them based on this (mistreatment of players or something of the sort), but wouldn't you agree it seems to indicate that they are doing something differently from other teams for these situations to occur so frequently with them?
My best guess would be that their recruiting methods might be somewhat flawed.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on TL's part?
If Ret demanded a 200k salary, and TL said no, so Ret left, that would make it a failure on TL's part? Please stop posting. Nothing you have said has had any basic thought or logic put into it.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Yeah how stupid we discuss things on a forum made to discuss. If you think its a stupid thread, dont read it.
I never once called it stupid, stop putting words in my mouth. This makes me think you're stupid for not being able to understand the 2 simple lines of text which I originally wrote.
Blown out of proportion is how I would describe it.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
And Naniwa signed that contract when joining Complexity. If he was unhappy with how things were handled regarding the selling of his contract he should have reviewed all the details before signing. I don't understand the issue?
Don't sign a legal agreement unless you: 1) Agree with every clause. 2) Are willing to concede on the issues where they're not in agreement with what you want. (i.e. benefits outweigh every single possible disadvantage).
Either way, Complexity have done everything properly and it has blown up into a much bigger drama than it should have been. They didn't want the player anymore so they sold his contract. Happens all the time in other sports.
If this is not how people want things turning out to be like in esports, then it is the player's responsibilities to take contracts a lot more seriously than they have been so far. READ WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written,
If you have concrete and specific knowledge about the way coL handles contract negotiates or the specific language they put in their contracts, please share it. Otherwise, everything you wrote after this is a bit meaningless.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
And Naniwa signed that contract when joining Complexity. If he was unhappy with how things were handled regarding the selling of his contract he should have reviewed all the details before signing. I don't understand the issue?
Don't sign a legal agreement unless you: 1) Agree with every clause. 2) Are willing to concede on the issues where they're not in agreement with what you want. (i.e. benefits outweigh every single possible disadvantage).
Either way, Complexity have done everything properly and it has blown up into a much bigger drama than it should have been. They didn't want the player anymore so they sold his contract. Happens all the time in other sports.
If this is not how people want things turning out to be like in esports, then it is the player's responsibilities to take contracts a lot more seriously than they have been so far. READ WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING.
You advocate players to read what they are signing but you didn't read what you are replying to?
I am not talking about what is being done at the moment either in sports either in esports, it is precisely what I'm putting in the dock here. I am talking of what should be done, what is normative and what we should aspire to.
Child labour is still standard in some countries, would you answer the same "deal with it" and put the responsability of the deal on the worker's shoulders in this social situations? This is why some men stepped in and wrote for instance human rights, and that we have civilization's progress, because it is understood that customs aren't norms.
It is also hypocritical to say that there shouldn't be norms and progress made by the structures themselves on the darwinist hypothesis that progamers will make it evolve in this way by not signing it, because it is basically saying that the relation between structures and players should go there but only if structures are being carried on players' backs.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written,
If you have concrete and specific knowledge about the way coL handles contract negotiates or the specific language they put in their contracts, please share it. Otherwise, everything you wrote after this is a bit meaningless.
Basically you don't have any concrete and specific knowledge about the way coL handles contract negociates or the specific language they put in their contracts, you're implying for some obscure reason that others can't, and you conclude that their explanations are meaningless.
Why, if you lack this knowledge, would you take someone's argumentation on the matter as doubtful, since you admitted having no expertise about it? Why would you dismiss it rather than reading it and educate yourself?
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
And Naniwa signed that contract when joining Complexity. If he was unhappy with how things were handled regarding the selling of his contract he should have reviewed all the details before signing. I don't understand the issue?
Don't sign a legal agreement unless you: 1) Agree with every clause. 2) Are willing to concede on the issues where they're not in agreement with what you want. (i.e. benefits outweigh every single possible disadvantage).
Either way, Complexity have done everything properly and it has blown up into a much bigger drama than it should have been. They didn't want the player anymore so they sold his contract. Happens all the time in other sports.
If this is not how people want things turning out to be like in esports, then it is the player's responsibilities to take contracts a lot more seriously than they have been so far. READ WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING.
Why, if you lack this knowledge, would you take someone's argumentation on the matter as doubtful, since you admitted having no expertise about it? Why would you dismiss it rather than reading it and educate yourself?
Presumably because random people posting in threads don't have insider knowledge of the contracts of progamers. Do you honestly believe everyone on the internet?
On December 12 2011 10:43 Hydroxyl wrote: Basically you don't have any concrete and specific knowledge about the way coL handles contract negociates or the specific language they put in their contracts, you're implying for some obscure reason that others can't, and you conclude that their explanations are meaningless.
Why, if you lack this knowledge, would you take someone's argumentation on the matter as doubtful, since you admitted having no expertise about it? Why would you dismiss it rather than reading it and educate yourself?
If you have information share it. Otherwise, reading what you say isn't education. You can say your ass is made of ice cream but that don't make you a hot fudge sundae.
Haha, it's funny that people jumped all over Catz (with whom I disagree in many other topics BTW, judging from his past interviews) for "being public". How freaking ironic is it, when it is a reply for a PUBLIC comment about him?
It doesn't seem that Naniwa gave a shit to single him out in public by naming him, yet apparently, Catz cannot be public about Naniwa on his part. I am saddened by the fact that majority of the people are either blind or retarded.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
Don't reason with Paladia. I think SirScoots wanted badly for fanboys to appear, and you are trying to reason with one of them
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
No, Lake isn't stupid enough to sell his contract somewhere Nani doesn't want to be in. Jason is smart enough to know if the bridge is burnt, it might bring much larger damage to CoL than departure of their top SC2 talent.
On December 12 2011 10:43 Hydroxyl wrote: Basically you don't have any concrete and specific knowledge about the way coL handles contract negociates or the specific language they put in their contracts, you're implying for some obscure reason that others can't, and you conclude that their explanations are meaningless.
Why, if you lack this knowledge, would you take someone's argumentation on the matter as doubtful, since you admitted having no expertise about it? Why would you dismiss it rather than reading it and educate yourself?
If you have information share it. Otherwise, reading what you say isn't education. You can say your ass is made of ice cream but that don't make you a hot fudge sundae.
If I said my ass is made of ice cream but you never seen my ass, how can you rather assure I'm not a hot fudge sundae than assure I am?
That being said, it's not even like chances are 50/50 like in your example, since, even without an inside look into Complexity's contracts and the way they are handled, you can safely deduct yourself what I explained from the simple outside outcome of this situation and the confess Jason Lake himself on reddit.
For instance, Jason Lake said he would sell Naniwa's contract to any team with or without Naniwa's approval, it was just a matter of time to find a team that accepted to buy it.
Wether I have inside information on Naniwa's contract or not, like having read it, you can still affirm from Jason Lake's mere confession that Naniwa's contract - and it is not like it is the only time, as a matter of fact (see in the past), that's why you can go further than Naniwa's contract but talk about Complexity's contracts in general - that those contracts are written in such a way that Complexity has more weight and rights than Naniwa has about himself. It is not even an hypothesis waiting to be confirmed or invalidated, it is a fact confirmed by Jason Lake.
That's why I am sorry but I have to dismiss your theory that if I don't give more informations that what is already present to the eyes of the community, what I expressed on the matter is not appropriate.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
No, Lake isn't stupid enough to sell his contract somewhere Nani doesn't want to be in. Jason is smart enough to know if the bridge is burnt, it might bring much larger damage to CoL than departure of their top SC2 talent.
I wouldn't speculate on the matter since it is pretty much hypothetical to think he would not do what he said himself on reddit. The only argument that stands your point is "Jason Lake is not stupid enough to damage CoL by doing this", but considering he created most of the flak against coL by his own comment on reddit, I wouldn't bet on it myself.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
No, Lake isn't stupid enough to sell his contract somewhere Nani doesn't want to be in. Jason is smart enough to know if the bridge is burnt, it might bring much larger damage to CoL than departure of their top SC2 talent.
I wouldn't speculate on the matter since it is pretty much hypothetical to think he would not do what he said himself on reddit. The only argument that stands your point is "Jason Lake is not stupid enough to damage CoL by doing this", but considering he created most of the flak against coL by his own comment on reddit, I wouldn't bet on it myself.
That's true...I just gave him the benefit of the doubt (if there is any) for his excellent managing in years past.
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
No, Lake isn't stupid enough to sell his contract somewhere Nani doesn't want to be in. Jason is smart enough to know if the bridge is burnt, it might bring much larger damage to CoL than departure of their top SC2 talent.
I wouldn't speculate on the matter since it is pretty much hypothetical to think he would not do what he said himself on reddit. The only argument that stands your point is "Jason Lake is not stupid enough to damage CoL by doing this", but considering he created most of the flak against coL by his own comment on reddit, I wouldn't bet on it myself.
That's true...I just gave him the benefit of the doubt (if there is any) for his excellent managing in years past.
Except his years of excellent management were in the game that he himself was passionate about, while Starcraft and Starcraft players are nothing more than a business venture for him.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on TL's part?
If Ret demanded a 200k salary, and TL said no, so Ret left, that would make it a failure on TL's part? Please stop posting. Nothing you have said has had any basic thought or logic put into it.
It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team.
Stephano Naniwa Destiny
Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity.
The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore.
It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team.
Stephano Naniwa Destiny
Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity.
The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore.
Wait.. What?...
Destiny left because he didn't like that ROOT was merging into a large organization. I love the guy but he's not a "result oriented player" like you said. Not a result of complexity being a bad organization, just that Destiny didn't want to be a part of a big organization at the time.
Was Stephano technically ever on the team? Maybe for a few hours? That's not about retention.
Naniwa left on these terms, but its Nani. He's a controversial player who wants what he wants. This isn't the first team transfer involving him. You can't really think up much about this.
Now with the fact that complexity hasn't picked up many players of big name and retained them recently is a strange occurrence, but the academy they have running is extremely legitimate. Goswser is definitely a player people have to look out for in the future.
I can't fault the logic that we have had some issues as of late. If you just look at the fact that we have lost high profile players without looking at the facts surrounding them then yes it looks very bad.
The fact is like the above said Destiny was a unique circumstance. At the time he did not want to be part of a "large organization" so we decided it was best for both of us if we not hold him to a contract he did not want.
With Stephano, It is my belief we did everything right. We signed him, announced it and then found out by him going on a show that he was breaking our contract and re-signing with Millenium. That is hardly something we did but more that something happened to us. Not much we could have done differently.
With Naniwa, I think all that needs to be said has been said. We wished we could have made it work but it was just a difficult situation that again left us very little choice in the matter as to what was best for our business going forward.
We are actively looking to continue to add to our roster and continue to be one of the top Gaming organizations in the world.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on TL's part?
If Ret demanded a 200k salary, and TL said no, so Ret left, that would make it a failure on TL's part? Please stop posting. Nothing you have said has had any basic thought or logic put into it.
It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team.
Stephano Naniwa Destiny
Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity.
The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore.
Destiny got kicked off of CoL because of the shit he says on his stream. Stephano was on two teams and decided to join the other team, Mil, because he wanted to be on a French team. Naniwa left because he thinks placing well at tournaments is more important than stream views, stream views, by the way, that continue to keep CoL in business because the sponsors are being shown to thousands of people. It shows that you know nothing about this and yet you continue to act as though you do.
On December 12 2011 04:31 syllogism wrote: You are just making stuff up, again. Why do you think naniwa "left" his previous teams? Is Dignitas one of those teams with massive issues? Do you think players can just leave while they are still under contract, as in the case of Complexity Naniwa?
Dignitas obviously does not have an issue with players who want to just focus on results, such as Select or Sjow.
CoL is the team with those issues, as evident by their line-up and the two top players they did aquire, Naniwa and Stephano, didn't stay for long.
One can argue all day long but regardless of your point of view it is difficult to not see it as a massive failure by CoL to aquire both Naniwa and Stephano but being unable to keep them in the team.
As for the contract question, I am not so sure you understand contracts judging from the way you asked the question. Can players leave if they are still under contract? Of course they can as it is civil law. Are there monetary consequences? That depends on the contract. Could they have tried to keep Naniwa or Stephano there against their will? Possibly, though it would have been a very bad idea. The issue isn't if they should force players to stay or not, the issue is that the top performing players, obviously, do not want to stay in Complexity to begin with.
I truly, truly cannot understand how you can speak of massive failure without knowing the ins and outs. There are so many details to situations like this that could either spin this into a situation of bad management, or a situation of good management. The idea that as long as a good player does not stay with a team this is a sign of bad management is incredibly flawed.
If it happens once, for sure. However, Complexity has been unable to keep any of the results-oriented players.
Lets say you for example, couldn't come to agreement with your currently signed top players Ret, Sheth and Hero and thus they all left on a bad footing with lots of drama, public bashing back and forth, legal threats on twitter and so on. Would you not see that as a failure on TL's part?
If Ret demanded a 200k salary, and TL said no, so Ret left, that would make it a failure on TL's part? Please stop posting. Nothing you have said has had any basic thought or logic put into it.
It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team.
Stephano Naniwa Destiny
Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity.
The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore.
Destiny got kicked off of CoL because of the shit he says on his stream. Stephano was on two teams and decided to join the other team, Mil, because he wanted to be on a French team. Naniwa left because he thinks placing well at tournaments is more important than stream views, stream views, by the way, that continue to keep CoL in business because the sponsors are being shown to thousands of people. It shows that you know nothing about this and yet you continue to act as though you do.
Wait...Destiny was never on CoL. He jumped ship during the ROOT/CoL merger because he didn't want to be on the team. What on earth could he say on his stream (which attracts an obscene number of viewers) that would get him thrown off a team?
On December 12 2011 07:21 Tektos wrote: My goodness the SC2 community loves drama.
Col sold Naniwa's contract, what is the big deal?
Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be?
I doubt you can have an employment contract where you reserve the right to sell your employee to someone else.
On December 13 2011 01:20 coljbass wrote: I can't fault the logic that we have had some issues as of late. If you just look at the fact that we have lost high profile players without looking at the facts surrounding them then yes it looks very bad.
We are actively looking to continue to add to our roster and continue to be one of the top Gaming organizations in the world.
As I said I have nothing against complexity and wish you, just like all other esports teams, the best of luck.
I think you bring a seriousness in some ways to the table that esports needs but you do it in the wrong way. As an example, does real companies sue each other or send legal threats? For sure, but it is something they avoid at (almost) all cost and they certainly don't tweet about it in public or create a drama around it. Overall, I get the feeling that your pursuit of being a "serious" business has made you very unsmooth to deal with, even for your own players to some degree.
I'm also not sure why you create such drama each time a player leaves. Questioning Destiny's professionalism, calling Stephano "disrespectful" and "disheartening" together with even more bashing and drama. The current drama surrounding Naniwa (you even have complexity officials in this very thread questioning his mental state) and lets not even get into the whole HoN team issue. Why are you so keen on bashing former players and creating drama about it? Do you think players are more anxious to join Complexity when you throw them out to the wolves with a knife in the back if they leave? Do you think it is professional?
Some people say that I have no idea what I am talking about and I couldn't even begin to imagine how things work within large organisations. However, I was the leader of the largest and most successful European WoW guild, I've been an esports writer for a very long time and have had the opportunity to lead some of the worlds most celebrated esports figures. I do know that there are a ton of internal conflicts in an organisation on all levels, it is unavoidable as people don't get along and want different things, especially in such a large organisation as WoW. However, it is the job of the management to manage it, that's why it is called management. At some points, it isn't possible and a player has to leave for what-ever reasons, sometimes due to an internal conflict. However, at no point in time did we ever hang out a former member or ever call him anything negative in public regardless of what we thought of him. That, out of respect of him, ourselves and his new endeavours.
So while I wish you the best of luck, I will never understand why you bash former players in public and create drama around it. It is just unprofessional at all levels.
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
Seems legit, Col. Is a great organization, and quantic, well I haven't seen enough from them yet to warrant an opinion that is based on evidence, I guess we shall see what we shall see Hope things work our for both teams though and that nani gets the cred he deserves, guy is a total beast. For E-sports!
EPT
! <3 
". Fyi It's irrelevant to what I stated in this thread and out of respect for Naniwa as a person I'm not going to go into details about that. Also I think it's funny that you seem to know more of how I feel about my former teammate than someone, me for example, who spent nearly 8 in the same team with the guy. I also said "I hope it works out in Quantic" and I really meant that, I'm not trying to wish nani misfortune. 
