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On November 22 2011 13:23 Greggle wrote:
I thought this was about all the bullshit forced nicknames they give players, not their IDs. I feel like Tastosis assigns every single code S player a nickname, some have like 5 and they all feel so forced, we have MC as the Kratoss and July as the God of War... when you have two people with the same god damn nickname its quite clear you're giving out nicknames for the sake of giving out nicknames. Half the time someone is given a nickname for how they played in ONE game. Not everyone deserves one.
There's only a handful of nicknames I actually like. Professor Tea for Nestea teaching the world how to play Zerg, the Brood War carry overs are fine like Genius Terran for Nada, Son of Boxer is pretty accurate for MMA, but not many others really.
I also like Gracken for IdrA, i think that's clever. Tastosis the casting archon is great, I know they aren't players but its the same idea. I think some of the nicknames (not player IDs) are awesome and really tell a story.
When MC is introduced as the Boss Toss, or July as the 'God of War', I find it really exciting. Look at Boxer, he is the emperor of Terran, that is all. Everyone knows what that means, it has a story and history that any Starcraft fan, be it BW or SC2, can appreciate.
OT: I personally like using player IDs when casting/referring to players. I do it myself, and I feel - to use IdrA as an example yet again, that Greg Fields is a just another guy, whereas IdrA is a beastly macro Zerg. I guess it comes down to personal preference if you want real names used or player IDs, but thats my opinion
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Inside the game it's better to use aliases.
On bnet the usage of aliases are crucial and when there's more unknown players.
I do think it's important for the casters to atleast mention the real name of the players atleast once (doesn't have to be at the intro.)
In interviews, we've really got to start using the real names.
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I feel like they should use them both, but the handles more than their real names.
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It would be soooo hilarious hearing all the american/english casters trying to pronounce french/german/eastern european names... Your better off with nicknames... 
Thats no insult, but english speaking persons normally just have a really bad tongue/ear for "foreign" languages/sounds/words because they hardly ever "have" to use it...
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On November 22 2011 12:12 SoKHo wrote:
Yeah, it's a little strange that foreigners go by their handle. In Korea, nobody calls Flash, Flash. They call him Lee Young Ho, or Kim Taek Young for Bisu.
maybe foreigners started calling koreans by their ID's because they're too lazy to learn all the korean names, so might aswell call non-koreans by their ID's too then
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
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On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote:
Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
When has that been a problem in any sport ever?
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On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote:
Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
Then surely when real names are contradictory, team names can come in to play?
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 22 2011 20:15 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote:
Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference When has that been a problem in any sport ever?
It hasn't because most sports have an association with teams, or different sports, where it could be an issue, otherwise it has yet to come up. There have been numerous cases in the NFL/NBA where people have the same name, but its their links to the team that separates them. The ID does the same for gamers
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On November 22 2011 20:20 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 20:15 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote:
Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference When has that been a problem in any sport ever? It hasn't because most sports have an association with teams, or different sports, where it could be an issue, otherwise it has yet to come up. There have been numerous cases in the NFL/NBA where people have the same name, but its their links to the team that separates them. The ID does the same for gamers
Starcraft 2 also has teams, you know.
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yeah, realnames would be nice. Maybe the nickname in bracket behind them. i'd like it
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On November 22 2011 19:41 Klogon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 19:31 emythrel wrote:On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote:
The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced. I was with you until the very end lol. Nony and Idra and even Klogon are all pronounced exactly as they are written, gamer tags are in general far easier to pronounce than someone's real name. Haha, so I'm curious. When you say my name, do you say the "Klog" part like clog or like clover. i hear both when people say it aloud, and now I'm not even sure what I think I should go by. For Nony, do you say like "noon" or "know" for the first syllable. I've always thought it was know-knee and I believe that's how people said it during TSL, but I think Tyler says he's always thought it was noon-y in his own head. And I know a lot of people thought it was noon-y, too. And I know casters used to call Idra both eye-dra (like I'd) and id-dra (like idiot). It wasn't until later on that it became standardized. So no, these names are not as intuitive as you'd think they are because a lot of them are in fact either made up words or exotic foreign words mashed up into some meaning.
While you are certainly right about that it is rather uncertain how quite a lot of nicknames are pronounced - isn't it the same with real names? Hardly anyone pronounces my name (Aurel) correctly and aside from those rather unusual names there is so many names which have different possible pronounciations: the J in Jessica/Janine (in german) can either be pronounced like the y in "yes" or like the j in "jest". There is probably hundreds if not thousands of similar cases in english as well.
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I'd say that a combination of both is what I'd prefer the most. Ie. Johan "Naniwa" Lucchesi. I don't know why but I think it adds some seriousness or something. I can't put my finger on what it is, I just prefer hearing their real name. And that goes even longer for casters, it's really annoying how they're using each others handles..
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I don't mind using real names in conjunction with their handles. I think that the handle that is something unique to gaming culture more so than any other scene and I don't think it's necessary to do away with it entirely. The handles add some fun to it (from my perspective) and help players become more identifiable relatively easily compared to learning their full names all off of the bat. I know the real names of most of the established pro players (both Korean and not), but trying to remember some of the up and comes that we don't see very often is hard to do without having a convenient and unique handle that is easily memorised compared to a full name.
In the future I'd like to see both used, though. I don't want them done away with entirely as I think it's a unique aspect of the scene, but knowing players by their real names is also important. In other sports or fields plenty of people are known by nicknames as well, but they're commonly referred to by their full name as well. In friendship circles, workplaces and other sports plenty of people and players get identifiable nicknames. Even pro-teams (in Football etc) use nicknames as a part of their branding and culture to help the team be identifiable and marketable. That's the kind of balance I would like to see eventually.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On November 22 2011 20:31 TBO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 19:41 Klogon wrote:On November 22 2011 19:31 emythrel wrote:On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote:
The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced. I was with you until the very end lol. Nony and Idra and even Klogon are all pronounced exactly as they are written, gamer tags are in general far easier to pronounce than someone's real name. Haha, so I'm curious. When you say my name, do you say the "Klog" part like clog or like clover. i hear both when people say it aloud, and now I'm not even sure what I think I should go by. For Nony, do you say like "noon" or "know" for the first syllable. I've always thought it was know-knee and I believe that's how people said it during TSL, but I think Tyler says he's always thought it was noon-y in his own head. And I know a lot of people thought it was noon-y, too. And I know casters used to call Idra both eye-dra (like I'd) and id-dra (like idiot). It wasn't until later on that it became standardized. So no, these names are not as intuitive as you'd think they are because a lot of them are in fact either made up words or exotic foreign words mashed up into some meaning. While you are certainly right about that it is rather uncertain how quite a lot of nicknames are pronounced - isn't it the same with real names? Hardly anyone pronounces my name (Aurel) correctly and aside from those rather unusual names there is so many names which have different possible pronounciations: the J in Jessica/Janine (in german) can have either be pronounced like the y in "yes" or like the j in "jest". There is probably hundreds if not thousands of similar cases in english as well.
Yes Yes, german is very different in that aspect. So is English like you said.
E is the most i found annoyance with. Chelsea, in the same word you have to difference E sounds...cheeeeeel at the start and eeeeeeeeee...so stupid. (Eeeeeee as in Eeeeek, and eeeeeel as in Hell)
But yeah im all for, people being called both. Introduced Greg "Idra" Fields. And talking to him as Idra in game due to his name being Idra in the scoreboard in the game, but any formal interviews with him call him Greg "Idra" Fields then you ask him a question then he answers and then you say "ok then greg (insert next question)" that sounds about right. The end it with "Give it up for Greg "Idra" Fields....sorted
Even pro-teams (in Football etc) use nicknames as a part of their branding and culture to help the team be identifiable and marketable. That's the kind of balance I would like to see eventually.
Yes excatly, there is MANY cases of this in football in the premiership, take 2 high profile players who play for Manchester United and Manchester City. Javier Hernandez has Chicarito on the back of his shirt and is what he is referred to as, and Sergio Aguero has "Kun Aguero" on the back of his top...
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The older generation of us has already experienced this on multiple occasions. World Cyber Games tried to force it (I think in 2005) by having all players go by their real names instead of nicknames, during the same period all major FPS events like CPL or LANArena (later ESWC) tried it, then went back to real name and nickname combinations, and now we are back again to pure nicknames. The topic arises repeatedly, and is turned down again for the same reasons.
Nicknames are a part of the identity of esports, as jersey numbers are for team sports (everybody knows the Jordans 23, even if you don't care about Basketball)
Adding the real name information, for example in TV productions (as GSL already goes, for example), is ok, and I must admit it looks more professional.
But the nicknames will always be, and instead of imitating other sports, we should stick to our identity and communicate it rather than trying to change what we love for people that don't care.
It comes up again and again, but I don't think it will ever change, and I don't feel it even should.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197655
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60705
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That said, Maj0r, Windy, Princess or whatever the hell he wants to call himself at the next event should be forced to be just referred to by his real name since it's so confusing to remember what he wants to be known by this month.
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Handles are one of the biggest aspects of gaming and very unique to the culture. We should definitely keep them, just include player's real names alongside them as others have suggested. Back in CS some players used to include their tag along with their last names, we just need to do the same so people start associating names ALONG with handles.
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[QUOTE]On November 22 2011 20:43 Pandemona wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 22 2011 20:31 TBO wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 22 2011 19:41 Klogon wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 22 2011 19:31 emythrel wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote:
[quote]Even pro-teams (in Football etc) use nicknames as a part of their branding and culture to help the team be identifiable and marketable. That's the kind of balance I would like to see eventually.[/quote]
Yes excatly, there is MANY cases of this in football in the premiership, take 2 high profile players who play for Manchester United and Manchester City. Javier Hernandez has Chicarito on the back of his shirt and is what he is referred to as, and Sergio Aguero has "Kun Aguero" on the back of his top...[/QUOTE]
That's right, the players chose to use those names for themselves and I don't see a problem with it. Plus the teams themselves use mascots, symbols and imagery alongside their nickname to help attract fans to their cause. Some of them make more sense than others (Arsenal are called the Gunnners but use a dinosaur as a mascot etc), but it helps with branding and image.
Edit: Damn, I broke the quote...FML.
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Part of esports culture. Period.
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EPT
