I've been wondering why we are using nicknames at major tournaments (example MLG) instead of real names? I mean for a normal guy who havent never heard about Starcraft 2 or other video games it sounds kinda stupid that they are calling each other by their nicknames, example Huk instead of Chris Loranger.
Nickname thing is kinda useless, because at lan events no one is not basicly hiding behind their nickname so why to use them? So why don't we use Greg Fields instead of Idra. If people wants to make StarCraft 2 bigger, I think that the major thing is to start calling people with their real names.
Is there any other "sport" that uses nicknames over real names? Well ofcourse there are some, but example when you are watching news at TV, they never call sportsmen/sportswomen by their nicknames. Or if you are watching football broadcast from TV, they rarely call players by their nickname. But in esports we are doing it all the time!
By short, I just think that nicknames are slowing Starcraft / esports!
Poll: Nicknames or Realnames
Nicknames (1054)
58%
Realnames (379)
21%
Both (283)
16%
I don't care (97)
5%
1813 total votes
Your vote: Nicknames or Realnames
(Vote): Nicknames (Vote): Realnames (Vote): Both (Vote): I don't care
Edit. New poll =)
Edit2.
All of you people realize that in the Korean scene, players are known and referred to by their real names *only* . . . never by their nicknames.
Almost no one in Korea knows who "SlayerSBoxeR" is, but Lim Yo Hwan . . . he's a national celebrity. In all Korean casts, players are referred exclusively by their real names that their mommies gave them.
Well..nicknames are a big part of videogames in general, making each player unique. I don't think it really matters, unless the nickname sounds excessively childish.
i.e the protoss master, K1LL3R_d@-pr0l0rD or something like that
Yeah, it's a little strange that foreigners go by their handle. In Korea, nobody calls Flash, Flash. They call him Lee Young Ho, or Kim Taek Young for Bisu.
I think it's just a result of gaming culture nowadays. In most online communities, members are known by their handle and not their name (notable exceptions being social networks like Facebook, Myspace, etc).
Also yeah, it would be a LOT harder to follow the Korean scene without nicknames.
And have you seen all the Korean names?! I mean, I like to think I'm not a xenophobe but a lot of the foreign names get REALLY confusing for me.
When you don't understand a language all the words can look the same, names are no different. By divorcing player identification from any single language it makes it easier for everyone to identify them.
Nicknames are what they are known by and sounds better imo, plus it makes it easier on casters. You have to remember that some people have some difficult real names to pronounce.
Calling players by their nicknames is only common in the West. In Korea the players, fans and casters are more likely to refer to the players by their actual names.
I think at least casters should use real names. I was at barcraft and idk why it changed anything but I found it really weird that someone calls a guy right next to him husky or day9
SC1 pros had handfuls of usernames each. Imagine calling Hiya all of his different usernames instead of just Magikarp or Hiya. Nobody would know who the fuck who was talking about.
On November 22 2011 12:20 xTNodub wrote: people call johnson megatron all the time. In fact i never hear them call him by his name. Detroit number 81, can't remember his frist name
The difference is, They have earned their nicknames / They haven't made them up themselvs
On November 22 2011 12:20 xTNodub wrote: people call johnson megatron all the time. In fact i never hear them call him by his name. Detroit number 81, can't remember his frist name
ummm its Calvin Johnson
and a lot of people still call him that
anyway ... Nicknames>>>>real names unless your announcing them as Greg "Idra" Fields or something like that
Well, aren't nicknames also used to some extent in Poker? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Starcraft 2 isn't Football or any other "conventional" sports for that matter. We should try to legitimize ESPORTS for what it is, not turn it into something else.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Dazer wrote: Because using nickname is organically part of the gaming culture and it has always been for decades.
If expanding esports means to compromise certain fundamental culture of gaming then Imo it's not worth it.
Really, if the usage of real names instead of monikers contributes to the fact that more pro-gamers other than just the top 10 can live off of their salaries comfortably without the need to do non-practice related activities (coach and what not) and allow for more progamers and teams to be able to afford training facilities I would switch to real names in a heart beat.
It's easy for us spectators to say that we should keep gaming culture when we don't have to deal with the day to day finances of making rent and other real life financial obligations with a pro-gamer's salaries and other rather less than consistent revenue streams.
And as other people have mentioned, in Korea, so call dubbed the "Mecca of eSports", pro-gamers are known by their real names. Lim Yo Hwan, Lee Jae Dong, Lim Jae Duk, Lee Young Ho, Kim Taek Young etc etc.
I like the nicknames! It's a little bit of an added flair to e-sports. I think it helps remind people that pros were once just ordinary gamers too. It's part of gamer culture.
eSports isn't the same as real life sports. I say simple yet distinguishing things such as IDs make it different, and that difference is a good thing. Not a bad thing. Homogenizing and trying to assimilate with RL sports to a degree is okay, but I believe IDs should remain in tact.
For example: Greg 'IdrA' Fields or just 'IdrA' is fine. If you were to take out the 'IdrA' part I don't think that's a step in the right direction.
Usernames/Stagenames are super cool, imo. Personally, I don't want to have to address all of the players by their first and last names. There are tons of Chris's out there, but only one HuK. When we use the nicknames there is no question about who we are talking about. HuK is HuK, Nestea is Nestea, MC is MC. People don't NEED to know their real names, unless they really want to. I think this is actually beneficial to the community and makes it easier for people to jump in and follow what is going on. Normal names are easy to confuse and can get jumbled up if you're presented with a lot of them, but a username sticks better.
As there are many sports that don't use nicknames, why should we follow what conventional sports do? People seem to think that the success of esports is based around how it conforms to traditional sports. I, personally, don't believe this is the case, and feel that esports should try to maintain it's unique flare.
As an example of where usernames/stagenames work really well… rap. Without looking it up, do you know who Marshall Bruce Mathers III is? Why, it's Eminem. Curtis James Jackson III? 50cent. Stagenames… they got that (though I'm not a rapper… and do not care for rap actually). But these names sum up the personalities and make them easily recognizable.
Now, I can't say whether or not Stephen Bonnell II would rather go by "Stephen Bonnell II" or "Destiny," But I will say from a spectators perspective, 'Destiny' has such a flare to it, that Stephen just doesn't have.
But, however, I feel that the biggest advantage to stagenames are the stories behind the names. These names follow people for so long, and the username can be presented across national boarders and languages. You can say Lim Yo-Hwan was a great Starcraft player… but if, instead, you just said the name, 'Boxer,' all of his history is summed up right there in the name.
Well for gaming, it would be easier to follow given than within the match you see the handle/nick anyway. And if you are worried about the player once he changes handles/names, then it could be just simply the job of the caster as part of the introduction to inform the audience who are less knowledgeable of the fact.
It adds to it. Think about it, you see a game between huk and idra and you keep hearing the caster say Chris or Greg. A person who doesn't really know Chris as Huk or Greg as Idra wouldn't be able to follow, especially in the middle of the match where he didn't hear the introductions. It just makes it easier for the audience to receive it. If they are really into it, then they would grow to learn more about who they watched play and learn the fact of who Huk/Idra/any other sc2 programer is anyway and it won't be an issue.
I don't think tags are even that unfamiliar to non-gamers. I mean, everyone these days uses the intornetz for various things and typically has their own special ID of some sort, be it their email address, name on some forums, or just a personal codename without any real origin.
Also, it saves us from having to hear itmeJP absolutely butcher every asian/european name. It'd be frustrating to hear him refer to a match between "Limp Jay Duck" and "Joe-han LouCheesey".
I was at Providence this weekend, and honestly, if I know a gamer's real name, I'll use it when I talk to them. If I'm talking about somebody I can use a nickname, just because that's how we all know them: TLO, iNcontrol, Machine, etc. But if I'm speaking to someone face to face, they're Dario, Greg, Bryce, etc. It seems too weird for me to address someone by an internet alias in meatlife, it always has.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Dazer wrote: Because using nickname is organically part of the gaming culture and it has always been for decades.
If expanding esports means to compromise certain fundamental culture of gaming then Imo it's not worth it.
Really, if the usage of real names instead of monikers contributes to the fact that more pro-gamers other than just the top 10 can live off of their salaries comfortably without the need to do non-practice related activities (coach and what not) and allow for more progamers and teams to be able to afford training facilities I would switch to real names in a heart beat.
It's easy for us spectators to say that we should keep gaming culture when we don't have to deal with the day to day finances of making rent and other real life financial obligations with a pro-gamer's salaries and other rather less than consistent revenue streams.
And as other people have mentioned, in Korea, so call dubbed the "Mecca of eSports", pro-gamers are known by their real names. Lim Yo Hwan, Lee Jae Dong, Lim Jae Duk, Lee Young Ho, Kim Taek Young etc etc.
Well that is a problem really, if BW had spread out more to say Europe, and many Europeans with difficult names went to Korea the Korean casters would have a hard time pronouncing the names. That to me is the biggest conflict that will keep this from happening.
We use nicknames because this is a video game. Our ID's are our nicknames. Online we are not known as Greg Fields, we are known as Idra. Nicknames come from original online ID's. Tuba.
On November 22 2011 12:32 Staboteur wrote: I don't think tags are even that unfamiliar to non-gamers. I mean, everyone these days uses the intornetz for various things and typically has their own special ID of some sort, be it their email address, name on some forums, or just a personal codename without any real origin.
Also, it saves us from having to hear itmeJP absolutely butcher every asian/european name. It'd be frustrating to hear him refer to a match between "Limp Jay Duck" and "Joe-han LouCheesey".
Good commentators learn the names of who they are casting. it shouldn't be a problem, and if they are butchering the names, that's on them for not doing their homework.
The scene is more about the games and less about the players. Because if you make it about the players, well... some are really awkward. Better to keep as it is.
It's a result of Korean dominance. Korean names are just so much different than Euro/NA names, so it's hard to identify a player with it. I'm sure the reverse is the same.
All of you people realize that in the Korean scene, players are known and referred to by their real names *only* . . . never by their nicknames.
Almost no one in Korea knows who "SlayerSBoxeR" is, but Lim Yo Hwan . . . he's a national celebrity. In all Korean casts, players are referred exclusively by their real names that their mommies gave them.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Dazer wrote: Because using nickname is organically part of the gaming culture and it has always been for decades.
If expanding esports means to compromise certain fundamental culture of gaming then Imo it's not worth it.
Really, if the usage of real names instead of monikers contributes to the fact that more pro-gamers other than just the top 10 can live off of their salaries comfortably without the need to do non-practice related activities (coach and what not) and allow for more progamers and teams to be able to afford training facilities I would switch to real names in a heart beat.
It's easy for us spectators to say that we should keep gaming culture when we don't have to deal with the day to day finances of making rent and other real life financial obligations with a pro-gamer's salaries and other rather less than consistent revenue streams.
And as other people have mentioned, in Korea, so call dubbed the "Mecca of eSports", pro-gamers are known by their real names. Lim Yo Hwan, Lee Jae Dong, Lim Jae Duk, Lee Young Ho, Kim Taek Young etc etc.
Well that is a problem really, if BW had spread out more to say Europe, the Korean casters would have a hard time pronouncing the names. That to me is the biggest conflict that will keep this from happening.
I disagree, think about the number of players in pro-sports from Latin American countries with strange names, commentators learn them, and how to say them. Troy Polomalu, T. J. Houshmandzadeh, or Prince Amukamara (NFL).
I think we should make a distinction between nicknames and screen names/handles, a nickname is given after you enter the sport, for example, Calvin Johnson wasn't Megatron till he started playing on TV, it took him a while to get noticed, and Megatron was given to him by someone else, when he signed up he signed up as Calvin Johnson. Similarly, in starcraft, a nickname is given to players after the fact, such as Nal_ra's Dreamer, Boxer's Emperor, Nada's Genius Terran, are all names they are given after the fact, so nicknames like these are common throughout all sports, it gives it a feel of epicness, it makes you feel "this guys are so good they get a title"
Handles and screenames are kind of unique to the esports community. In fact the koreans actually do call all of the players by their real names, its really only the community that doesnt speak the language that refers to them by screen names. In this sense using screen names helps international appeal by bridging language barriers. I think in that sense esports is correct to use it, you cant go and start up a basketball game between Germany and Korea, but you can start up a game of starcraft easily, having a reconizable ID is important if you are dealing with international players since you are an amateur.
This is all probably due to how the brain is wired up.
In Korea, there's no problem using real names for SC pros because it's easier for Koreans to remember Korean names. With Starcraft becoming international, however, it's more difficult for people to remember real names outside of their nationality. It's like how Boxer typed in "Grack" instead of "Greg".
Handles, I believe, are a sign that the game is becoming truly international.
I was going to comment about how I couldn't spell some names, but when I typed Tyler Wasieleski to show how bad I was at spelling foreign (to me) names, it turned out to be correct.
This is an interesting point that I have wondered myself. It may be the norm here to use handles, but why do we do it? For us, it does make following Koreans easier, but is that a good enough reason to use them?
At the same time, is there a problem with using handles? It might actually be a good thing, helping to maintain some semblance of privacy as a star. If I were a famous player, I would much rather be known as "Koibu" in public, and by my real name in privet. Yeah, we all know Idra is Greg Fields, and Sir Scoots is Scott Smith, but I wouldn't feel comfortable calling either one by their real name, and I'm sure they'd rather just have their real friends use their real names.
I think having stars called by their handles is a great thing. It gives them some level of distance from their fans, gives them a unique personality (MarineKingPrime? It's a perfect name), and lets the players express themselves a little bit. Colorful names are great: iNcontroL, Temp0, ThisIsJimmy, Destiny, Hero, MVP. Even the colorful names that are kind of lame are still kind of cool: Killer, LegalMind, A_Giant_Smurf, ActionJesus
One thing is players, but what about casters? It's a bit weird when trying to show Starcraft 2 to someone who doesn't know a thing, and then everything starts off with "Hi, i'm Tasteless and with me is Artosis" or "This is Catspyjamas and Painuser welcoming you to IPL".
i think that most of the fans recognize the players by their nicknames better than their real names. i also think that nicknames are better because the SC2 community is a global one and so rather than learning names in a bunch of different languages, everyone just calls each other by their nicknames
Look, this is a game. The reason everyone got to where they are today is becuase they loved this game and and the culture; by trying taking out part of the culture like ID's, you're trying to take out a big part of what makes Starcraft what it is. No one wants to hear about Greg Fields, because Greg Fields sounds fucking boring, EVERYONE wants to hear about IdrA though. People need to stop being so fucking serious and just enjoy things for once without caring about X or Y or Z "hurting esports".
On November 22 2011 12:52 Arisen wrote: Look, this is a game. The reason everyone got to where they are today is becuase they loved this game and and the culture; by trying taking out part of the culture like ID's, you're trying to take out a big part of what makes Starcraft what it is. No one wants to hear about Greg Fields, because Greg Fields sounds fucking boring, EVERYONE wants to hear about IdrA though. People need to stop being so fucking serious and just enjoy things for once without caring about X or Y or Z "hurting esports".
eSports isn't the only game that has had to deal with this, in Baseball people are still arguing about this, should we have instant replay? You have your traditionalists who believe that we should keep the tradition and romance of Baseball and have Umpires decide, while you have those who argue, since Baseball is such a huge business, and millions of dollars are on the line, we should institute instant replay to get everything right.
Just because something is the way it is now, doesn't mean that it should be the same way in the future. Tradition is important, but so is making progress.
There may come a point in time where pro-gaming will have to take this into consideration, is a name so important that we should cling onto it, or is it something rather inconsequential that we can let go if it means the acceleration of the growth of eSports and more of our favorite pro-gamers can make a living off of it.
actually it's ID vs Real name. Some players are given nickname by fans due to their characteristic/gameplay/etc ie. Jeong Jong-Hyeon = real name, mvp = ID, Genie terran = nickname
nicknames are amazing they give every person the opportunity to be unique, i dont even like my real name and choosing new nicknames all the time is awesome
On the one hand, nicknames are cool and can be just as permanent as real names for people like IdrA, or Strifeco, cool names like that.
But then you have people like that fuckhead Maj0r, who changes his name to something even more retarded every other week. I feel like I want something to be done to combat that.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Dazer wrote: Because using nickname is organically part of the gaming culture and it has always been for decades.
If expanding esports means to compromise certain fundamental culture of gaming then Imo it's not worth it.
Really, if the usage of real names instead of monikers contributes to the fact that more pro-gamers other than just the top 10 can live off of their salaries comfortably without the need to do non-practice related activities (coach and what not) and allow for more progamers and teams to be able to afford training facilities I would switch to real names in a heart beat.
It's easy for us spectators to say that we should keep gaming culture when we don't have to deal with the day to day finances of making rent and other real life financial obligations with a pro-gamer's salaries and other rather less than consistent revenue streams.
And as other people have mentioned, in Korea, so call dubbed the "Mecca of eSports", pro-gamers are known by their real names. Lim Yo Hwan, Lee Jae Dong, Lim Jae Duk, Lee Young Ho, Kim Taek Young etc etc.
Well that is a problem really, if BW had spread out more to say Europe, the Korean casters would have a hard time pronouncing the names. That to me is the biggest conflict that will keep this from happening.
I disagree, think about the number of players in pro-sports from Latin American countries with strange names, commentators learn them, and how to say them. Troy Polomalu, T. J. Houshmandzadeh, or Prince Amukamara (NFL).
No they don't :/ They just americanize the pronunciation. I've been watching hockey in english for years, and I still haven't found a single english commentator that can pronounce "Dupuis", "Michel" or "Letang" properly.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Dazer wrote: Because using nickname is organically part of the gaming culture and it has always been for decades.
If expanding esports means to compromise certain fundamental culture of gaming then Imo it's not worth it.
Really, if the usage of real names instead of monikers contributes to the fact that more pro-gamers other than just the top 10 can live off of their salaries comfortably without the need to do non-practice related activities (coach and what not) and allow for more progamers and teams to be able to afford training facilities I would switch to real names in a heart beat.
It's easy for us spectators to say that we should keep gaming culture when we don't have to deal with the day to day finances of making rent and other real life financial obligations with a pro-gamer's salaries and other rather less than consistent revenue streams.
And as other people have mentioned, in Korea, so call dubbed the "Mecca of eSports", pro-gamers are known by their real names. Lim Yo Hwan, Lee Jae Dong, Lim Jae Duk, Lee Young Ho, Kim Taek Young etc etc.
Well that is a problem really, if BW had spread out more to say Europe, the Korean casters would have a hard time pronouncing the names. That to me is the biggest conflict that will keep this from happening.
I disagree, think about the number of players in pro-sports from Latin American countries with strange names, commentators learn them, and how to say them. Troy Polomalu, T. J. Houshmandzadeh, or Prince Amukamara (NFL).
No they don't :/ They just americanize the pronunciation. I've been watching hockey in english for years, and I still haven't found a single english commentator that can pronounce "Dupuis", "Michel" or "Letang" properly.
Good point, I guess the point I was making was that I felt most people were arguing that it would be hard for people to understand. While I guess the pronunciations are Americanized, or Koreanized, or Insert-language-here-anized, that most people should be able to understand who the commentators are talking about with relative ease.
I've been wondering why we are using nicknames at major tournaments (example MLG) instead of real names? I mean for a normal guy who havent never heard about Starcraft 2 or other video games it sounds kinda stupid that they are calling each other by their nicknames, example Huk instead of Chris Loranger.
Nickname thing is kinda useless, because at lan events no one is not basicly hiding behind their nickname so why to use them? So why don't we use Greg Fields instead of Idra. If people wants to make StarCraft 2 bigger, I think that the major thing is to start calling people with their real names.
Is there any other "sport" that uses nicknames over real names? Well ofcourse there are some, but example when you are watching news at TV, they never call sportsmen/sportswomen by their nicknames. Or if you are watching football broadcast from TV, they rarely call players by their nickname. But in esports we are doing it all the time!
By short, I just think that nicknames are slowing Starcraft / esports!
Poll: Nicknames or Realnames
Nicknames (1054)
58%
Realnames (379)
21%
Both (283)
16%
I don't care (97)
5%
1813 total votes
Your vote: Nicknames or Realnames
(Vote): Nicknames (Vote): Realnames (Vote): Both (Vote): I don't care
All of you people realize that in the Korean scene, players are known and referred to by their real names *only* . . . never by their nicknames.
Almost no one in Korea knows who "SlayerSBoxeR" is, but Lim Yo Hwan . . . he's a national celebrity. In all Korean casts, players are referred exclusively by their real names that their mommies gave them.
Right athletes are never referred to as nicknames. Kobe Bryant isn't Black Mamba, Dwyane Wade isn't Flash. "Smokin Joe" Frazier. Calvin Johnson isn't Megatron. There's no Big Papi David Ortiz or the Sultan of Swing. None of these things exist right?
Right athletes are never referred to as nicknames. Kobe Bryant isn't Black Mamba, Dwyane Wade isn't Flash. "Smokin Joe" Frazier. Calvin Johnson isn't Megatron. There's no Big Papi David Ortiz or the Sultan of Swing. None of these things exist right?
I thought this was about all the bullshit forced nicknames they give players, not their IDs. I feel like Tastosis assigns every single code S player a nickname, some have like 5 and they all feel so forced, we have MC as the Kratoss and July as the God of War... when you have two people with the same god damn nickname its quite clear you're giving out nicknames for the sake of giving out nicknames. Half the time someone is given a nickname for how they played in ONE game. Not everyone deserves one.
There's only a handful of nicknames I actually like. Professor Tea for Nestea teaching the world how to play Zerg, the Brood War carry overs are fine like Genius Terran for Nada, Son of Boxer is pretty accurate for MMA, but not many others really.
I've been wondering why we are using nicknames at major tournaments (example MLG) instead of real names? I mean for a normal guy who havent never heard about Starcraft 2 or other video games it sounds kinda stupid that they are calling each other by their nicknames, example Huk instead of Chris Loranger.
Nickname thing is kinda useless, because at lan events no one is not basicly hiding behind their nickname so why to use them? So why don't we use Greg Fields instead of Idra. If people wants to make StarCraft 2 bigger, I think that the major thing is to start calling people with their real names.
Is there any other "sport" that uses nicknames over real names? Well ofcourse there are some, but example when you are watching news at TV, they never call sportsmen/sportswomen by their nicknames. Or if you are watching football broadcast from TV, they rarely call players by their nickname. But in esports we are doing it all the time!
By short, I just think that nicknames are slowing Starcraft / esports!
Poll: Nicknames or Realnames
Nicknames (1054)
58%
Realnames (379)
21%
Both (283)
16%
I don't care (97)
5%
1813 total votes
Your vote: Nicknames or Realnames
(Vote): Nicknames (Vote): Realnames (Vote): Both (Vote): I don't care
All of you people realize that in the Korean scene, players are known and referred to by their real names *only* . . . never by their nicknames.
Almost no one in Korea knows who "SlayerSBoxeR" is, but Lim Yo Hwan . . . he's a national celebrity. In all Korean casts, players are referred exclusively by their real names that their mommies gave them.
On November 22 2011 13:23 Greggle wrote: I thought this was about all the bullshit forced nicknames they give players, not their IDs. I feel like Tastosis assigns every single code S player a nickname, some have like 5 and they all feel so forced, we have MC as the Kratoss and July as the God of War... when you have two people with the same god damn nickname its quite clear you're giving out nicknames for the sake of giving out nicknames. Half the time someone is given a nickname for how they played in ONE game. Not everyone deserves one.
There's only a handful of nicknames I actually like. Professor Tea for Nestea teaching the world how to play Zerg, the Brood War carry overs are fine like Genius Terran for Nada, Son of Boxer is pretty accurate for MMA, but not many others really.
Lol July was the God of War long before Tastosis said it. Learn your history.
Yeah, I prefer real names. I think it would actually somewhat help to legitimize ESPORTS as a mainstream thing, because to be honest the IDs probably seem quite weird to non-gamers. One of the reasons I'm more interested in the BW scene still is because it's not just "about the games", it's about the players. I think having real names is one of the factors that contributes to that.
On November 22 2011 12:58 Carush wrote: this is such a horrible idea
nicknames are amazing they give every person the opportunity to be unique, i dont even like my real name and choosing new nicknames all the time is awesome
Why do you need to use IDs to be unique? A player should be identifiable from their playstyle and their accomplishments.
On November 22 2011 12:44 andrea20 wrote: This is all probably due to how the brain is wired up.
In Korea, there's no problem using real names for SC pros because it's easier for Koreans to remember Korean names. With Starcraft becoming international, however, it's more difficult for people to remember real names outside of their nationality. It's like how Boxer typed in "Grack" instead of "Greg".
Handles, I believe, are a sign that the game is becoming truly international.
An avid fan of any sport can remember the names of a great many players, I don't see why Starcraft would be any different. I don't speak Korean but I know the real names of 50+ BW progamers just from the time I've spent following the game, just like as a baseball fan I could easily name 100+ MLB players without even thinking hard about it.
Honestly, I would hate to see the use of gamer tags fall by the way-side, while it may not be the most "professional" it is a big part of what makes gaming gaming (to me and many others by the results of the poll). The casters should not be held to this standard of uber-professionalism either, for instance I have noted a marked drop in the amount of swearing going on at mlg's :/ This may not anger some but to me it's censorship, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with sponsor pressure and the rate at which e-sports is becoming "main-stream" but I'm sad to see it, I think that soon this wonderful world that many grew up with is going to become watered down and mass marketed, I would rather that not happen, but such is the way with progress. But I digress, the issue is Real Names vs. Nicknames, I'm all for the use of Tags, I think it lends a unique flavor to E-sports and most people do know the actual names of their favorite players, but not of those that they are merely acquainted with, knowing the real name is something of a sign that you're truly interested in a player/personality. And as for what they do in KR, WHO CARES!? They have been doing their own thing for a very long time and the west has been doing the same, no reason this can't continue, diversity is good
its a cultural thing i guess. using nicks would be looked down upon in korea for its lack of professionalism plus inability to pronounce some of the names correctly, and childish (like wwe). nicks help in the states because it has a huge pool of various names.
if ya'll want this to be mainstream, or professional, at a level that it can be broadcasted on TV like in korea, real name is a must for its professionalism. however, if you want it to be more like WWE-ish (i assume why using nick seems so natural to many), nicks will do fine.
whatever the case, i wish they present both. some players i know by real name and some players i know by nick, naturally i know bw players by real name and sc2 players by their nick because i get my bw source in korean while sc2 source in english (DAMN YOU GOM, ALLOW KOREAN STREAMS FOR FOREIGN COUNTRIES!!!)
comparing it to sports athlete's nick name isn't really comparable since most of them of earned, not made up. and its a nick, just that, not used as official. you dont see "King James" when showing player stats. (however players can choose what name they want to use, like Chicharito)
i prefer real name if i had to choose but i really dont care, i see positives for both.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Dazer wrote: Because using nickname is organically part of the gaming culture and it has always been for decades.
If expanding esports means to compromise certain fundamental culture of gaming then Imo it's not worth it.
Really, if the usage of real names instead of monikers contributes to the fact that more pro-gamers other than just the top 10 can live off of their salaries comfortably without the need to do non-practice related activities (coach and what not) and allow for more progamers and teams to be able to afford training facilities I would switch to real names in a heart beat.
It's easy for us spectators to say that we should keep gaming culture when we don't have to deal with the day to day finances of making rent and other real life financial obligations with a pro-gamer's salaries and other rather less than consistent revenue streams.
And as other people have mentioned, in Korea, so call dubbed the "Mecca of eSports", pro-gamers are known by their real names. Lim Yo Hwan, Lee Jae Dong, Lim Jae Duk, Lee Young Ho, Kim Taek Young etc etc.
My two cents on the no nicknames in korea
The way i understand it, korean and oriental languages care much more about respect than english does. Thus, i feel it is probably inapropriate in their culture to use gaming handles. In the rest of the world for the most part, handles sound cool and are how we identify players. I don't think it needs to be changed anytime soon, unless if their is a financial reason.
On November 22 2011 13:25 Rostam wrote: Yeah, I prefer real names. I think it would actually somewhat help to legitimize ESPORTS as a mainstream thing, because to be honest the IDs probably seem quite weird to non-gamers. One of the reasons I'm more interested in the BW scene still is because it's not just "about the games", it's about the players. I think having real names is one of the factors that contributes to that.
On November 22 2011 12:58 Carush wrote: this is such a horrible idea
nicknames are amazing they give every person the opportunity to be unique, i dont even like my real name and choosing new nicknames all the time is awesome
Why do you need to use IDs to be unique? A player should be identifiable from their playstyle and their accomplishments.
On November 22 2011 12:44 andrea20 wrote: This is all probably due to how the brain is wired up.
In Korea, there's no problem using real names for SC pros because it's easier for Koreans to remember Korean names. With Starcraft becoming international, however, it's more difficult for people to remember real names outside of their nationality. It's like how Boxer typed in "Grack" instead of "Greg".
Handles, I believe, are a sign that the game is becoming truly international.
An avid fan of any sport can remember the names of a great many players, I don't see why Starcraft would be any different. I don't speak Korean but I know the real names of 50+ BW progamers just from the time I've spent following the game, just like as a baseball fan I could easily name 100+ MLB players without even thinking hard about it.
I disagree whole-heartedly, The legitimacy of something is not derived from what names or used or even how "professional" it is to people outside of the core fans, In fact legitimacy is a product of the validity of the business model and the amount of draw and watching potential. Everything else is peripheral and/or cultural. That being said I would hate for the uniqueness of the scene to be watered down, and obviously many in the community agree.
On November 22 2011 13:36 Mallidon wrote: Nicknames defo.
Why?
Because a 'Dan Stemkoski Pylon' sounds bloody stupid!
Using real names to identify players in professional tournaments doesn't mean everyone should suddenly forget about their IDs. Even though BW players in Korea are always identified with their real names, nobody refers to SK Terran style as "Kim Seul Ki Terran".
Nicknames. I don't give a shit about "advancing ESPORTS"- either it will make it big as it is or it won't, I don't want to change something just so it'll become mainstream.
On November 22 2011 13:35 SolidMoose wrote: It's a bit ridiculous to say Koreans exclusively use real names when the GSL always announces each player by their ID
In BW, the players are exclusively referred to by their real names. In addition, I don't know if it's possible, but if you can ever watch the Korean GSL cast, the players are also referred to by their real names. I actually find the ID announcement rather awkward.
But for English casts, people have always referred to them by ID, so I don't particularly care about that. Just the introductions bother me.
Real names are a really personal thing for me. All my friends use my first name, but usually i dont want any stranger referring me in that way. Thats just not polite to call someone unasked with their full or first name. Nicknames are a bridge because you can speak with someone without being to personal.
While Casting its different, because the players and caster are in the spotlight. Normally all interested viewers know the name of the important players and thats fine. But i think its just easier to refer someone in the heat of a battle with "Socke" instead of Giacomo Thüs or Pavel Kuznetsov (Brat_OK).
On November 22 2011 13:25 Rostam wrote: Yeah, I prefer real names. I think it would actually somewhat help to legitimize ESPORTS as a mainstream thing, because to be honest the IDs probably seem quite weird to non-gamers. One of the reasons I'm more interested in the BW scene still is because it's not just "about the games", it's about the players. I think having real names is one of the factors that contributes to that.
On November 22 2011 12:58 Carush wrote: this is such a horrible idea
nicknames are amazing they give every person the opportunity to be unique, i dont even like my real name and choosing new nicknames all the time is awesome
Why do you need to use IDs to be unique? A player should be identifiable from their playstyle and their accomplishments.
On November 22 2011 12:44 andrea20 wrote: This is all probably due to how the brain is wired up.
In Korea, there's no problem using real names for SC pros because it's easier for Koreans to remember Korean names. With Starcraft becoming international, however, it's more difficult for people to remember real names outside of their nationality. It's like how Boxer typed in "Grack" instead of "Greg".
Handles, I believe, are a sign that the game is becoming truly international.
An avid fan of any sport can remember the names of a great many players, I don't see why Starcraft would be any different. I don't speak Korean but I know the real names of 50+ BW progamers just from the time I've spent following the game, just like as a baseball fan I could easily name 100+ MLB players without even thinking hard about it.
I disagree whole-heartedly, The legitimacy of something is not derived from what names or used or even how "professional" it is to people outside of the core fans, In fact legitimacy is a product of the validity of the business model and the amount of draw and watching potential. Everything else is peripheral and/or cultural. That being said I would hate for the uniqueness of the scene to be watered down, and obviously many in the community agree.
Obviously it's not a big deal, if the product is good you'll draw in viewers either way. However, I think that it can absolutely have an affect on how non-gamers and prospective sponsors view the presentation of the game. "MarineKing" might sound cool to us, but that doesn't mean it's going to seem anything but childish to someone who has no idea about the game. As for the "uniqueness", I don't see it as a factor. The game is plenty unique on its own. Nobody has trouble distinguishing soccer from baseball just because they don't use aliases for their players.
Its in our culture today. It goes the same for music. There are many Artists with nicknames that they are referred by. It can work both ways its really just the preference of the person.
On November 22 2011 13:47 Jaiden wrote: Real names are a really personal thing for me. All my friends use my first name, but usually i dont want any stranger referring me in that way. Thats just not polite to call someone unasked with their full or first name. Nicknames are a bridge because you can speak with someone without being to personal.
While Casting its different, because the players and caster are in the spotlight. Normally all interested viewers know the name of the important players and thats fine. But i think its just easier to refer someone in the heat of a battle with "Socke" instead of Giacomo Thüs or Pavel Kuznetsov (Brat_OK).
Casters in sports (and in BW) do it all the time, I don't see why it would be a problem.
This is not 1995, and the internet is not a new thing to most people. Everyone, and I mean, everyone, under the age of 25 understands online aliases. And most people older than that as well. I'm sure it's been stated elsewhere in this thread, but everywhere on the internet uses aliases with the exception of social networking sites. Youtube, anyone?
This does not slow the growth of e-sports AT ALL, in my opinion. Probably helps it.
I think they should use real names for the award ceremonies at least. Imagine if you could actually take giant cardboard checks to the bank and having to explain that "Naniwa" meant you.
Football... ever hear of PrimeTime? Most announcers just ended up calling him prime or primetime. That still do that now. But i agree, maybe real names might help it become more professional. Then again the use their nicks on the web, which would be really confusing for caster having to decide to call them by real names or nicks.
Ehh the topic is good. But nicks have always been a part of video games.
On November 22 2011 13:47 Jaiden wrote: Real names are a really personal thing for me. All my friends use my first name, but usually i dont want any stranger referring me in that way. Thats just not polite to call someone unasked with their full or first name. Nicknames are a bridge because you can speak with someone without being to personal.
While Casting its different, because the players and caster are in the spotlight. Normally all interested viewers know the name of the important players and thats fine. But i think its just easier to refer someone in the heat of a battle with "Socke" instead of Giacomo Thüs or Pavel Kuznetsov (Brat_OK).
I don't see how referring to a certain player in a heat of battle would be in anyway be hard thing to do, when all the matches are 1v1. Hell, They are calling every player their real name in ice hockey too and there are much more players in the field and it is much more fast paced than starcraft yet the commentators doesn't seem to have that much problems on pronouncing players names during matches.
I actually think you feel a stronger connection to someone when you know their true name. While we probably know popular player's real names because they're popular, don't we feel an even stronger connection to them because we refer to them as Chis, Jonathon, or Greg?
I would actually prefer to use the players' real names, because it gives me a stronger connection to them. Then again, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
On November 22 2011 13:47 Jaiden wrote: Real names are a really personal thing for me. All my friends use my first name, but usually i dont want any stranger referring me in that way. Thats just not polite to call someone unasked with their full or first name. Nicknames are a bridge because you can speak with someone without being to personal.
While Casting its different, because the players and caster are in the spotlight. Normally all interested viewers know the name of the important players and thats fine. But i think its just easier to refer someone in the heat of a battle with "Socke" instead of Giacomo Thüs or Pavel Kuznetsov (Brat_OK).
Casters in sports (and in BW) do it all the time, I don't see why it would be a problem.
Like i said, its easier. Its not the caster, i mean the viewer. In BW was a (mostly) small community with hardcore fans, in SC2 its a lot more versatile. That means we have more first time viewers and casual viewers, who enjoy the game but dont spend much time in the community and read about the players. They could and maybe will be sometime full time fans but did you ever tried to explain a tournament where you have +100 players to someone totally new? Its really hard. A lot of new names, units, strategies. Most people under 30 understand the concept of a nickname, even older folks like my granddad has no problem with it.
nick names work in esports though, and the fact that i don't care to remember any of the korean names minus a few because their real names are said a lot.
I actually think using nicknames would help SC2 spread a bit more, especially considering how the Korean scene dominates. No casual sc2 fan in america is going to learn all of the names of the korean pro's... i mean consider how many people even know boxer's real name? Do you think everyone is going to learn the korean names of all the pro's?
nicknames are fine. It won't slow anything down. If it gets to the point where it becomes a big deal, change it. Right now it doesn't really matter what you call the player imo.
On November 22 2011 14:01 BrosephBrostar wrote: I think they should use real names for the award ceremonies at least. Imagine if you could actually take giant cardboard checks to the bank and having to explain that "Naniwa" meant you.
I'd prefer it if banks recognized Johan as he walked inside with his check and said, "holy shit its Naniwa!" Then asked him for his autograph.
edit: People trying to change esports and push it into the mainstream only take away what we've all come to love in it. Rather than turn esports into what it isn't, we should embrace it for what it is. Is everyone in gaming going to now be required to have their full name as their ingame ID, too? Calling them by their name when you clearly see an ID next to a marine only discredit's the legitimacy of the ID.
this is serious? Jaedong will be jaedong and flash will be flash. take that away and you lose so much of what these simple names have become to the fans.
I'm getting sick of seeing all these "THIS IS HURTING ESPORTS" threads. But nicknames, easier to remember than real names, incase they are easy or being introduced by some casters, youll hear greg "idra" fields etc
On November 22 2011 14:10 LXR wrote: I actually think using nicknames would help SC2 spread a bit more, especially considering how the Korean scene dominates. No casual sc2 fan in america is going to learn all of the names of the korean pro's... i mean consider how many people even know boxer's real name? Do you think everyone is going to learn the korean names of all the pro's?
They don't learn them because they have no reason to learn them because they're always called by their nicknames during casts. When players are called by their real names in casts, then people will naturally learn their names by watching them play, same as you would in any sport. In fact, it's really not any different than how people come to learn SC2 player's IDs currently. You don't just look at a bracket for a tournament and instantly memorize every player, you learn their IDs by watching their games.
On November 22 2011 14:12 Golgotha wrote: this is serious? Jaedong will be jaedong and flash will be flash. take that away and you lose so much of what these simple names have become to the fans.
Why are you using BW players as an example when they are already called by their real names all the time?
On November 22 2011 12:08 Fuzer wrote: Is there any other "sport" that uses nicknames over real names? Well ofcourse there are some, but example when you are watching news at TV, they never call sportsmen/sportswomen by their nicknames. Or if you are watching football broadcast from TV, they rarely call players by their nickname. But in esports we are doing it all the time!
On November 22 2011 12:12 SoKHo wrote: Yeah, it's a little strange that foreigners go by their handle. In Korea, nobody calls Flash, Flash. They call him Lee Young Ho, or Kim Taek Young for Bisu.
Doesn't apply to sc2 tho, every Korean I've lived with/talked to addressed players by their handle, sometimes even best friends would say their sc2-nick rather than their real name. (for example in the pros house Young Jun Yoo or formerly MVPGalaxy was called Galaxy more often than Youngjun, same with Jung Hyun Yoo was called Bizzy more than his name)
My opinion is that the names add flare for sponsors, and real-names dull it, personally. When I've heard Nick-names in other sports it's sorta neat, but obviously due to the nature of the sports real-names are more important, as it was what they were built under.
Whatever you're built under is what you're addressed by, it has nothing to do with sports or whatever, look at Tom Dwan, don't recognize the name? How about Durrrrr the poker phenom? That's Tom Dwan. What about Viktor Blom? Don't recognize the name? Because it's Isildur1 the other internet poker phenom. Then ofcourse you have others like Phil Galfond who also rose to fame online but was generally addressed more as his real name as he was more public with it.
Just my opinion though and maybe I'm wrong about my analogy.
I really think that during the game, the players should be referred to as their handles. The casters NEED a shortform anyways so they can call who's doing what for the audience, and I think that you can compare the handle of a player to team-names in sports.
During pre-game hype, they should be telling us their real names as well as their handles. But I see no reason to reduce the use of the handle or nickname, only to increase the exposure of the player's real names as well. I think it helps legitimize the scene a little bit when we can attach real names to the best players.
I wonder how many times I've seen this debate on this site. It's gaming culture. It's what we do. As long as games give you a handle, rather than your actual name, it's what people will use because it's more easily identifiable and it's what you, the gamer, become known in the community as.
I think that the players should be known by their ID, however I think the casters should be using their real names. It sounds silly to have two human beings introduce each other and refer to each other by their nicknames...
I believe that in BW, players are referred to by their real names. That is if your nickname is not your real name as well (lol jaedong). I think the most familiar nickname is obviously boxer.
Nicknames for players doesn't bother me much, though I like hearing their real names too. If I were ever to meet a pro gamer in person I would feel awkward to greet them by their first name, I wouldn't say "hey Chris," I'd say, "Hey huk".
On the other hand, Casters should use their real names, at least in my opinion. It would add a certain flair of professionalism and likely make it easier to digest for first time viewers. Handles for players makes sense for a player since it's not dissimilar to a stage name, such as in wrestling. Casters however, are seen as actual people during the cast and receive a lot of face time so it makes sense for their real names to be used. Not to mention that it would not be hard either, there aren't that many casters who do so professionally.
Well for BW I learned real names cause otherwise I wouldn't know who's playing in proleague games , and for SC2 I think it's fine that the names we know them by are their in-game names. The graphics say what their names are, so that's what they're associated with. And some of them sound cooler than their normal names.
On November 22 2011 13:47 Jaiden wrote: Real names are a really personal thing for me. All my friends use my first name, but usually i dont want any stranger referring me in that way. Thats just not polite to call someone unasked with their full or first name. Nicknames are a bridge because you can speak with someone without being to personal.
While Casting its different, because the players and caster are in the spotlight. Normally all interested viewers know the name of the important players and thats fine. But i think its just easier to refer someone in the heat of a battle with "Socke" instead of Giacomo or Pavel (Brat_OK).
I don't see how referring to a certain player in a heat of battle would be in anyway be hard thing to do, when all the matches are 1v1. Hell, They are calling every player their real name in ice hockey too and there are much more players in the field and it is much more fast paced than starcraft yet the commentators doesn't seem to have that much problems on pronouncing players names during matches.
You're comparing someone who has decided to do sports broadcasting/casting for a career, opposed to someone who happened to cast video games and became popular/pursued it deeply.
Also the action isn't much more fast paced in hockey, theres only one puck, you only follow the puck, in sc2 you have 2 bases of macro, and usually multi pronged attacks, that is much more hectic than LEMEUIX TO JAGR, JAGR TO LEMEUIX, THEY CROSS THE BLUE LINE, SHOOTS, SCORESS !!
Not to mention that sports casters usually BUTCHER someones name if they havent seen it before or practiced it. Check out any national cast of a team that is usually cast by a local broadcasting station, and has emptied their bench. Half the commentators are scratching for relevant information to claim about those players, and cannot pronounce their names correctly.
Hell I remember Rajon Rondo having his name butchered, is it Ra Jon, RayJohn, Raw John, and this was the year after he was a starter for the NBA Champions.
Lots of pro athletes have nicknames, just look at MMA. All the top fighters have nicknames. In esports it's reversed, everybody has a nickname but only the top players are known by their real names.
Plus, nicknames are a great equalizer among remembering players who have foreign names. I dig them, they're not that awkward and if you think they are the problem lies in you, not the phenomenon.
I think it's better to go by the nickname that players choose before their actual names. I don't remember the video or which season, but I remember Artosis saying something before one of the GSL matches. I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like "Your parents choose your name, you choose your player ID". If a player picks an ID, it's because it has some important meaning to them.
To be honest, it doesn't really matter. If you'd like to think of nicknames as nerdying up the community and making it kind of cheesey/corny, then you're allowed to do so. But as many people said, with the amount of foreign players in SCII that make up the diverse progaming leagues, it's a lot easier saying White-Ra than Aleksey Krupnyk or Leenock than Lee Dong Nyung. If not for the very international community, then yes, I agree, if the casters can say the names properly, then they should be free to regard them with either their name or nickname.
On November 22 2011 14:33 AJMcSpiffy wrote: I think it's better to go by the nickname that players choose before their actual names. I don't remember the video or which season, but I remember Artosis saying something before one of the GSL matches. I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like "Your parents choose your name, you choose your player ID". If a player picks an ID, it's because it has some important meaning to them.
That's not always the case, if I'm not mistaken, NesTea was going to be ZergBong, but Bong is banned as a word by Blizzard, and there was a bottle of NesTea sitting on the table, so he became NesTea.
The story might be cool and interesting, but the name doesn't seem to have very much importance to him, at least initially.
I'm probably echoing a number of posters in this thread, but I think nicknames are fine. I think it's unreasonable to expect such an international audience to remember real names. Korean names are difficult to remember for non-Korean speakers, etc. I think it's also important to remember that nicknames really help create a player 'identity' which is instantly recognizable. MarineKing is the obvious example on this point, but even unassuming or obscure nicknames say something about the player who chose those handles.
Real names are fine too, though. I think as a matter of respect a player's real name ought to be used in real-life situations, ie pregame introductions, interviews, and so on. (And if the player would rather be known by his nickname in those situations, use that.) In-game, however, or when discussing a game, casters should use the nickname.
I think the only time I find nicknames slightly awkward are when the casters use them for each other. But I suppose that's up to the casters.
Really, the only time we should be using real names for players is when we are taking to them in real life, otherwise their nickname is much more convenient and identifiable.
Is it really that much harder to remember Min Chul and Seung Chul compared to MC and SC? If you can remember Dongraegu why can't you remember Park Soo Hoo?
On November 22 2011 12:08 Fuzer wrote:Is there any other "sport" that uses nicknames over real names? Well ofcourse there are some, but example when you are watching news at TV, they never call sportsmen/sportswomen by their nicknames. Or if you are watching football broadcast from TV, they rarely call players by their nickname. But in esports we are doing it all the time!
Other sports don't require you to log in with a username.
HuK, IdrA, and WhiteRa aren't "nicknames." They're Battle.net usernames. This is why they are used. This is what those players identify with while they play.
Obama-toss, Final Boss, and The Gracken are nicknames. And these are used only as much as other nicknames are used in other sports.
In Korea they use the players names I believe, isn't that also why they change their nicknames so often, because it has way less importance in the Korean Scene
It's really just a historical thing. Esports comes through online gaming that allowed for competition on such a large scale, and one of the defining features of the internet is annonimity. It might be good to use people's real names, but it will take some time to change as the plethora of lan events is a recent development. Also, I kind of like how having your real name known is sort of an indicator of achievement. Like, people learn of you by your ign, but once you get really accomplished they learn your real name as well.
I LOVE being able to choose my own name, and I love referring to people by theirs.
Plus I find them effective in defusing the emotional impact of arguments/insults when I read it off as being said by 'icefrog' as opposed to Mr. Theodore Kaczynski, or whoever . Keeps things more lighthearted imo.
Hope someday internet culture grows to a point where our handles are our MAIN names
It's just cooler/more convenient to use nicknames. It's prevalent for most of "internet culture" too is it not? Can even see it in movies and such...I'd much rather use the name "Neo" than "Thomas" for the protagonist of The Matrix.
It's just part of gamer culture imo. Korea has their way of doing it and we have ours. You hear the Korean commentators say the name "Chris Loranger" more than Tastosis during GSL, but I don't think using gamer tags devalues the Western scene in any way.
Let's cut to real names. I feel like I want to hurl sometimes when I have to say names like "Catz" or "Killer" or whatever putrid name Major goes by this week.
OP is actually right, as I first saw the thread i was like ''lol why'' but then i read the whole thing. I thing it would be...hmm, maybe better, if they'd put it like for example ''Chris Loranger (Huk)'', like, mentioning them principally by their names, but not completely deleting their nicknames. But if Starcraft somehow makes it to the TV (ESPN) it would be correct to focus only on their names, i think.
I'm fine with having handles instead of real names but casters should announce the real names, or at least some graphic should have the real names of players for viewers to see. It's hard going from US to KR streams because a lot of the times, as people have said, they go by their real names first.
I see nothing wrong with Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson or Chris "Huk" Loranger. People know them by iNcontrol and Huk and the people really into it and see them in big tourneys or interviews, (or stalk them on FB) know their real names.
On November 22 2011 15:18 MenSol[ZerO] wrote: i think the, First "Handle" Last format is the best
On November 22 2011 15:19 Arathore wrote: I see nothing wrong with Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson or Chris "Huk" Loranger. People know them by iNcontrol and Huk and the people really into it and see them in big tourneys or interviews, (or stalk them on FB) know their real names.
I agree, and not only do I think this is a good compromise, I think it's a compromise that will work to the benefit for eSports. Leagues need to do good story-telling, while its a story about players and the competition, or back story, and a player's name choice is often a great place to start in telling their story.
Just watch any pre-game interview for any major football, baseball, basketball, or any other sport, they do good interviews with players and, I feel that being able to tell the story of how they picked their name, and any other nickname would be good.
I think it's a neat thing that's part of western gaming culture. I'd to see more real names though,using a mix of both. Probably leave it up to which sounds better for the specific name and sentence. Sometimes it's cool, sometimes it sounds dumb. I think MMA is a similar situation where everyone has a nickname that people know and mention to a degree, but still use real names, unless they're super famous or catchy like Mirko Crocop. Maybe a different ratio is appropriate for gaming but a mix nonetheless.
I quite like the First Name "Nickname" Last Name format, although a nickname is the easiest way to refer to a player with SC2. It just depends on the context is all, really.
Real name's would make it more personable. Getting really tired of Juan changing his name every 3 months. If you are going to brand yourself then please do it properly. Pick a name and don't change it. That way people actually know who you are.
I know that starcraft is becoming pretty much like a sport and all, but we have to remember that its still a video game and When we play video games we use an alias.
Nicknames easily. - Easier to remember - Quicker to say (generally) - Sounds more badass
Of course you don't see commentators calling players of most sports by nicknames, barely any of them have nicknames... SC2 revolves around your gamer tag. Apples and oranges; they are two completely different things. And yes, in Korea they may call them by their real names, but that's a difference in culture. Once again, not something you should be comparing. I'm not saying real names should never be used, but I think it's kind of blasphemous if you are aiming to weed out using the players ID. I like the First name "Alias" Last name model for introductions and every now and then, but when referring to the players repeatedly in games and such, you should just use their ID.
On November 22 2011 14:21 I_Love_Bacon wrote: It's gaming culture. It's what we do.
Pow! Love that quote! So simple, so true. We're special. And that's a good thing. We are not like traditional sports. We're different.
I love nicknames <3 Everyone has their own history of names they came up with. I could ask anyone in here what nicknames they choose. Some of you switched a lot, some of you made only slight modifications. Sometimes trivial stories (Julyzerg), sometimes they are epic by accident (Nal_Ra), sometimes they sum up their whole career at first and then become pure irony (Savior). How many people want Tyler to be called Nony again!?
Born as a human with a given name. Reborn as a gamer with a chosen name.
i think the op is totally right nicks are quite stupid mention one other sport where people use nicknames instead of their real name? nicknames make it look like you're trying to hide your identity or you're trying to make something cooler than it actually is
I personally like the fusion of real names and gamer tags that has been going on with some gamers, stuff like Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson makes it easy to remember who the person is, uses their real name, and allows people to add their own little flair to their name/introduction, giving personality.
Using names would make it alot easier to know who the heck some of these progamers who change their name over and over are *cough* Major/Terran/Princess/Windy *cough*
On November 22 2011 16:54 Ayamis wrote: I personally like the fusion of real names and gamer tags that has been going on with some gamers, stuff like Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson makes it easy to remember who the person is, uses their real name, and allows people to add their own little flair to their name/introduction, giving personality.
Using names would make it alot easier to know who the heck some of these progamers who change their name over and over are *cough* Major/Terran/Princess/Windy *cough*
Hey man, he's now known as CuteAngel! Get it right! BD
I think real names should be used to identify players as well, but I don't see a problem with people having nicknames. Nicknames are just basically a trademark of the player. However, I agree it would be more professional if casters would refer to players by their real name instead of nicknames.
Sports are different, in most esports, and in gaming in general, people are more popular with their nicknames. It's part of the unique subculture and style of esports. Why should it be like everything else?
That's not the only thing that might look "stupid" to a newcomer, but it doesn't mean we have to change to look better in the eyes of newcomers. Our subculture is proud of being the way it is, and sooner or later more and more people appreciate it the way it is.
On November 22 2011 13:32 jinorazi wrote: its a cultural thing i guess. using nicks would be looked down upon in korea for its lack of professionalism plus inability to pronounce some of the names correctly, and childish (like wwe). nicks help in the states because it has a huge pool of various names.
if ya'll want this to be mainstream, or professional, at a level that it can be broadcasted on TV like in korea, real name is a must for its professionalism. however, if you want it to be more like WWE-ish (i assume why using nick seems so natural to many), nicks will do fine.
whatever the case, i wish they present both. some players i know by real name and some players i know by nick, naturally i know bw players by real name and sc2 players by their nick because i get my bw source in korean while sc2 source in english (DAMN YOU GOM, ALLOW KOREAN STREAMS FOR FOREIGN COUNTRIES!!!)
comparing it to sports athlete's nick name isn't really comparable since most of them of earned, not made up. and its a nick, just that, not used as official. you dont see "King James" when showing player stats. (however players can choose what name they want to use, like Chicharito)
i prefer real name if i had to choose but i really dont care, i see positives for both.
I agree. I find it strange that a lot of people here want esports to become more popular but at the same time insist on using childish stuff like nicknames. I cringe every time Tasteless and Artosis introduce themselves as "I am tasteless and with me is artosis" instead of "I'm Nick/Nicholas Plott and with me is Dan Stemkoski." Neither nickname sounds positive to an outsider (artosis actually sounds like a disease).
I prefer real names. The whole nickname thing is just stupid in a professional sport. I will always prefer LiquidTyler to Nony. The entire reason I started supporting Tyler despite the his horrible performance when I first got into Starcraft. Don't get me wrong nicknames can be nice, but never when they give yourself the name, the community must give it to you. For example, The Banjo, the Gracken, Gorilla terran, etc. These nicknames are good, Haypro, Idra, Jinro are just bad imo. You don't get to choose your nickname, that defeats the entire point of having one.
I'd greatly prefer real names. I think most people are instinctively voting nicknames because that's what they're used to.
Player image is becoming more and more important as e-sports becomes popular, and it's a lot easier to tie a face to a real name than it is to a nickname.
In my experience, people new to SC find games much easier to follow when it's, for example, Chris Loranger vs. Greg Fields rather than Huk vs. Idra. With the nicks, they're just faceless players 'from the internet.' But using real names instead helps people attach the playstyles and online personalities to the physical players, increasing awareness of progaming as a profession.
We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
On November 22 2011 16:44 prplhz wrote: i think the op is totally right nicks are quite stupid mention one other sport where people use nicknames instead of their real name? nicknames make it look like you're trying to hide your identity or you're trying to make something cooler than it actually is
as i said, many sports or commentators use both, poker, wrestling etc. use them regularily and "real" sports use them all the time, in fact many football players dont use their real name but make up one for themselves because the original one is too long or hard to pronounce, like Pele, deemed greatest player of all time
nicknames, this is not a traditional sport, this is something WE are creating, WE know players by the nicknames, WE want it to stay this way. When you say "greg fields is awesome" people probably dont know what your talking to, but if you say idra is awesome, *hopefully* they will know you are at least talking about video games (may have to wait a year or two for this to be true, but hopefully you see my point, it shows that we are different, not better/worse, just different.)
Thus, it goes that in tourneys, he is called EGIdrA. Fans know his real name, casters know his real name. His real name is not important to anyone else.
Are you saying every single professional should change their ladder accounts do their real names?
Should EVERYONE on battlenet be seen by their real names just because you hate gamertags?
" In all Korean casts, players are referred exclusively by their real names that their mommies gave them."
This is true. However, this also has to do with culture. For Koreans, it's much more difficult trying to pronounce the nicknames of professional players. Some players have names that would just be too hard for Korean caster to have to pronounce every single time they wanted to mention that player.
Because Korean people grew up learning how to pronounce Korean names, it is only natural that Korean casters are this way as well. Just as if American casters would probably say the real names of American people in a sport or event (excluding SC2) because Americans grew up learning how to pronounce american names.
Can you imagine Korean caster trying to say "Johnathanv(jinro), or Aleksey (white-ra), or Johan (Naniwa) every single time they wanted to mention that player?
On November 22 2011 17:32 Geo.Rion wrote: We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
Your argument is that someone who earns a living casting cannot take a few minutes to practice saying someones name? Listen to how the name is said, repeat until comfortable, cast. God forbid someone would actually have to learn a non english sounding name. Seriously the more you hear the names the easier it will be. The only reason you don't know and cannot pronounce the names is because you haven't been exposed to them enough.
A lot of people, especially in the music industry, have stage names. I see no reason to get rid of nicknames in gaming, as several other people before me have said it's part of gaming culture. I also think it's bullshit that people keep saying "oh, if you want e-sports to seem legit and go mainstream we have to use real names, cause that's what sports do. Do you ever see a sportscast where they use nicknames LOL?". That doesn't matter. E-sports does not have to be like "regular" sports to go mainstream, it's fine to have some uniqueness to it and I personally don't think it's worth giving so much up just for a hope of e-sports being more mainstream. Looking at it from a marketing perspective, I think the nicks are great. They're unique and add a lot of flavour to the persons that we don't actually SEE that much during the gameplay and they make great brands.
On November 22 2011 17:32 Geo.Rion wrote: We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
Your argument is that someone who earns a living casting cannot take a few minutes to practice saying someones name? Listen to how the name is said, repeat until comfortable, cast. God forbid someone would actually have to learn a non english sounding name. Seriously the more you hear the names the easier it will be. The only reason you don't know and cannot pronounce the names is because you haven't been exposed to them enough.
Casters might learn, although in my experience they dont. What about fans, take my example, they hear Grospellier they go to TLPD try to type something like Grapoleea, and thye wont find it. Or they try to learn Korean names, there are like 100 pros, and how many of them have Kim or Park or Dong or something starting with Yo.. in their names? Yes it can be learned, is it easy? No.
Nicknames - People make them for a reason. There is a Bio of the player before every match (in gsl anyone) and they put there real names there anyway. That is fine.
Boxing Darts UFC all use nicknames in any ring announcement or mini bio of the player even in snooker.
EG, Anderson "Spider" Silva or Floyd "Money" Mayweather.
No reason why they cant be interviewed as both "hi im with Greg Idra Fields" does not really bother me but you cant just whipe out there nicknames or it becomes pointless having one.
i think real names are more appropriate and more universal, but nicknames are certainly helpful when someone new to starcraft is watching a VOD or replay of him/her.
I don't know if esports will ever go "mainstream" unless nick names are dropped as the *main* way players are referred to. (I think you only see their real names in *some* major tournaments)
If you're a gamer then you'll get it. Most gamers know what a gamertag or an online nickname is but those won't be the people you want to target for it to grow outside of the gaming community.
Though maybe everyone outside of the video game sphere knows what an online alias is so it might not that big of a deal. I guess if those MLG/ESPN talks ever come to anything and we do see SC2 on tv we'll see what non gamers think about it.
On November 22 2011 17:32 Geo.Rion wrote: We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
Your argument is that someone who earns a living casting cannot take a few minutes to practice saying someones name? Listen to how the name is said, repeat until comfortable, cast. God forbid someone would actually have to learn a non english sounding name. Seriously the more you hear the names the easier it will be. The only reason you don't know and cannot pronounce the names is because you haven't been exposed to them enough.
Casters might learn, although in my experience they dont. What about fans, take my example, they hear Grospellier they go to TLPD try to type something like Grapoleea, and thye wont find it. Or they try to learn Korean names, there are like 100 pros, and how many of them have Kim or Park or Dong or something starting with Yo.. in their names? Yes it can be learned, is it easy? No.
I love it when some people go on about how hard it is to learn peoples name from another country without even trying. I don't it is going to be hard to learn pro players real name, since all you have to do is to watch and follow the scene and at some point you are going to remember most of the pro players real names. Most likely you don't even need to try to remember their names since it will come around naturally the more you hear casters say their names or read about them in the forums.
On November 22 2011 12:09 theBALLS wrote: Because that's what they're known by?
And good luck remembering all the Korean names.
This.
I might know some people by their real name but far far more by their nick.
It's not like you are playing 'Greg Fields' on ladder, you are playing Idra, you might be watching Spanishiwa games on youtube ... hell, the casters might not even know the real names of the players on youtube, why should they use them?
It's good with consistency between youtube, teamliquid, MLG, GSL, and other arenas. And since not everyone will have their real name officially known, you can't use real names for everyone.
I get that nicknames are a part of internet culture (not just video gaming / esports). It was kind of hard for me to adapt to social media (mainly facebook) using real names (partially b/c I grew up with the whole "don't ever give out your real name online"). However, in the last few years (as I continue to mature and 'grow up') I'm more and more disgusted with how bad some online communities can get when people can hide behind fake names. + Show Spoiler +
as illustrated by a famous penny-arcade strip
I actually have come to like that facebook encourages real name use (although I don't actually like facebook very much). Now, I'm not suggesting that b.net should require our real names as our sc2 IDs (although that might contribute to slightly less BM, it could be dangerous considering how much ladder rage is created - not to mention it would probably exponentially increase ladder fear..).
I do however think that large offline tournaments should use real names more (along with nicknames). Not only because it does "legitimize" the image somewhat, it also gives the players more RL exposure which is important for sponsoring. (Kind of how the NFL has tried to give players more 'face time' so fans are familiar with a players face so that commercials don't constantly need to promote their promoter.)
I actually really like how eSports uses nicknames instead of real names. You can't choose your real name, but you can choose your nick. And it's just way cooler to root for players with awesome names. Think of how the chants would change! It's way more awesome to hear a crowd chant IDRA, IDRA, IDRA rather than GREG, GREG, GREG.
I mean really, which name do you think sounds more badass?
There's certain things that set eSports apart from other sports, and this is one aspect that I LIKE.
I think this is one instance of gamer culture that we should simply accept as gamer culture and not worry our heads too much. Do most sports have this? No, or at least not to the same extent. They get nicknames like Magic Johnson, but so did BW- The Tyrant, The Revolutionist, the Emperor, God of War, Ultimate Weapon, the Terrorist etc.
But gamer tags comes from game culture and I think it's something worth keeping. It's not offensive and as long as gamers choose their tags wisely it'll be fine. (Some can be quite atrocious.) And as long as they don't change them all the time like Piano/Organ, and that Optimus switch around.
Personally I also have an easier time remembering tags rather than Korean names. I simply haven't grown up with very many Korean names so the names don't stand out as well as names I'm used to.
On November 22 2011 17:32 Geo.Rion wrote: We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
Your argument is that someone who earns a living casting cannot take a few minutes to practice saying someones name? Listen to how the name is said, repeat until comfortable, cast. God forbid someone would actually have to learn a non english sounding name. Seriously the more you hear the names the easier it will be. The only reason you don't know and cannot pronounce the names is because you haven't been exposed to them enough.
Casters might learn, although in my experience they dont. What about fans, take my example, they hear Grospellier they go to TLPD try to type something like Grapoleea, and thye wont find it. Or they try to learn Korean names, there are like 100 pros, and how many of them have Kim or Park or Dong or something starting with Yo.. in their names? Yes it can be learned, is it easy? No.
I love it when some people go on about how hard it is to learn peoples name from another country without even trying. I don't it is going to be hard to learn pro players real name, since all you have to do is to watch and follow the scene and at some point you are going to remember most of the pro players real names. Most likely you don't even need to try to remember their names since it will come around naturally the more you hear casters say their names or read about them in the forums.
I actually could learn very easily, i speak like 4 languages and can read in 3 more so i wont have any problem, but i ve seen and heard people and casters struggle. Open up any game any match where idk someone from a random EU country is playing, and you know how their names should be pronounced. Do they pronounce it correctly? most of the times they dont, even with superstars, let alone ppl who appear for the first time. Every thread would have 10 more pages of flame when a caster just flat out fails to pronounce or if two casters dont agree on how to pronounce it, or make fun of it god forbid because it sound silly or complicated.
And there are weird cases when a player is from X country but he hails from somewhere else so casters go like ok, he's German, we pronounce it like that, and it turns out he's Italian. If i'd be a pro i'd have the same problem, I live in Romania and am Hungarian and have a Hungarian name, but who cares about me, take Naniwa, he definetly has an Italian sounding name, but i have no idea if he has Italian background or how he wants us to pronounce his name. Or most recent interview of Huk, i mean, Huk, one of the foreigners on the hottest streak, the interview starts with the commentator trying to pronounce his name like 3 times and doesnt really manages, and he's Canadian for god's sake, try someone from Estonia or Hungary or any smaller European countries. Imagine the job of the weekly tourney casters where they cast games of players who are 70% different each week, or someone who tries to break trough, wins a couple of small cups but no one remembers him cuz they didnt learn his name.
Bottom line, it's unpractical, and creates contraversy.
don't have to do everything what the koreans do. People just like to make up nicknames for everything and keep names short. Thats how society became, while korea is different and its both fine imo (maybe one side will adapt there but i doubt it). We like our nick names and we will keep em and i don't think people hide behind it, thats more an internet thing not a gamer thing.
the arguement about: we/casters don't know the real names, well that would change. And in the long run it would be better for esports to call everybody by their real names
On November 22 2011 17:32 Geo.Rion wrote: We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
Your argument is that someone who earns a living casting cannot take a few minutes to practice saying someones name? Listen to how the name is said, repeat until comfortable, cast. God forbid someone would actually have to learn a non english sounding name. Seriously the more you hear the names the easier it will be. The only reason you don't know and cannot pronounce the names is because you haven't been exposed to them enough.
Casters might learn, although in my experience they dont. What about fans, take my example, they hear Grospellier they go to TLPD try to type something like Grapoleea, and thye wont find it. Or they try to learn Korean names, there are like 100 pros, and how many of them have Kim or Park or Dong or something starting with Yo.. in their names? Yes it can be learned, is it easy? No.
While I haven't formed an opinion on this topic yet I would like to comment on these quotes. I follow the figure skating/ ice dancing scene and both the regular commentators in most countries and the fans can pretty much ( with regards to accents, etc) correctly pronounce pretty much any well known( or up and coming) skater's name. It sure as hell isn't easy given that competitiors come from all over the world and yet we manage with the professional commentators leading the way and fans learning from them. If starcraft 2 wanted to go that way it could be done, with everyone educating themselves on how things are said and spelled over time. If people care enough to educate themselves there is no realistic reason they can't know who Park Sung Joon or Park Soo Ho are and why they should not be confused with each other. Nevermind that some forigners names look equally daunting but possible to learn.
I'm not saying it must be done just that it certainly can be if people really care about this thing they are supposedly fans of.
Yes, nicknames should be used much more sparsely. The over-use is ruining e-sports. Or am I the only one that is somewhat embarrassed to introduce professional SC2 matches to friends just because the commentators refer to eachother as "Artosis", "Tasteless" & "Day Nine" and the players as "Killer" and "Nestea"?
On pronunciation, it's the same thing in all sports. Every other sports commentator can handle names from different countries. It takes 5 minutes of preparation, and that is something that I expect of the commentary.
On November 22 2011 12:13 PSIKevin wrote: Would you rather the casters say
And coming up next we have Lee Jung Hoon vs Kim Hammar Or And coming up next we have MarineKingPrime vs. QIMSase
The former.
I never understood why we call people by their in-game names. I think that starting to go by real names instead would be a step in the right direction.
This probably has been mentioned elsewhere before that you can use combination of both real and nick name when referring to the player in print (which may require formality) ie. Greg "Idra" Fields but only use "Idra" when referring to the player in speech / casting (which may require quick access to the names).
It doesn't have to be an EITHER / OR situation you know.
On November 22 2011 18:27 mrGRAPE wrote: This probably has been mentioned elsewhere before that you can use combination of both real and nick name when referring to the player in print (which may require formality) ie. Greg "Idra" Fields but only use "Idra" when referring to the player in speech / casting (which may require quick access to the names).
It doesn't have to be an EITHER / OR situation you know.
It should be like you say but the casters should use their real names.
On November 22 2011 18:25 sodapop wrote: Yes, nicknames should be used much more sparsely. The over-use is ruining e-sports. Or am I the only one that is somewhat embarrassed to introduce professional SC2 matches to friends just because the commentators refer to eachother as "Artosis", "Tasteless" & "Day Nine" and the players as "Killer" and "Nestea"?
On pronunciation, it's the same thing in all sports. Every other sports commentator can handle names from different countries. It takes 5 minutes of preparation, and that is something that I expect of the commentary.
Thanks.
I couldn't have said it better. Exactly my opinion!
Nicknames... Would you rather call 'Eminem', well "Eminem" or Marshall Bruce Mathers III? Sometimes it just sounds better saying the nickname. However in my opinion both "Destiny" and "Steven Bonnell II" have a good rhythm. It really just matters how pronounceable and syllabic the words are in the nickname/player name.
People on the ladder obviously use their nickname, so amateurs will always start out with a nickname. I think casters should be able to use both, however nicknames are here to stay for one reason: Foreign names. Good luck pronouncing Payam Toghyan, Aleksey Krupnyk, Sun Li Wei or Juha-Matti Bäckström.
For an english caster those names are hard to pronounce properly, however other names like Jonathan and Greck are perfectly fine, and most people know them by their ID (Jinro/IdrA) as well.
I think referring to players by nicknames does give a lot of immediacy, you can often remember when and how much you have heard a certain nickname, where as a name just blends into the crowd (especially if it is foreign, Asian names in particular often have common parts, adding to the confusion).
The sponsors can be involved in the nickname, but would be taking quite some bet if they were involved in the family name..
However I do try and make an effort to learn the real names of the players, as when referring to the person (or in person) I feel funny using a handle, especially face to face.
Having said that I have been 'CJ' for the past 20 years, basically forcing everyone to call my by a nick name since most of my friends don't even know my real name, so I guess that blurs the line even more.
I don't think the credibility of eSports is at stake at all. I think the prize money, dedication, organisation and professionalism are what contributes to making it more credible, and it is only events like Gomas in the finals of the i44 lan qualifier that risk its credibility..
Respect the ID. It works in Korea because Korean names are all part of the same language. In the west, we have all sorts of tricky names to pronounce, and they take longer to pronounce than Korean names as well. Stick to IDs, it's easier.
The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced.
On November 22 2011 13:23 Greggle wrote: I thought this was about all the bullshit forced nicknames they give players, not their IDs. I feel like Tastosis assigns every single code S player a nickname, some have like 5 and they all feel so forced, we have MC as the Kratoss and July as the God of War... when you have two people with the same god damn nickname its quite clear you're giving out nicknames for the sake of giving out nicknames. Half the time someone is given a nickname for how they played in ONE game. Not everyone deserves one.
There's only a handful of nicknames I actually like. Professor Tea for Nestea teaching the world how to play Zerg, the Brood War carry overs are fine like Genius Terran for Nada, Son of Boxer is pretty accurate for MMA, but not many others really.
Lol July was the God of War long before Tastosis said it. Learn your history.
I was aware, but I guess I worded it pretty poorly. My complaint was MC's nickname, I know July has been around forever and was once far more godly than today.
Starting to think real names during tournaments would be better. It doesn't have to affect the casual non professional players. A lot of fans will still use the player's nicknames like in any sport but maybe it would be more professional and accessible for new fans and sponsors if during tournaments players were referred to by their real names.
On November 22 2011 17:32 Geo.Rion wrote: We've been here and discussed this so many times. Korean casters can pronounce correctly the korean names 100% of the times, (and Korean fans can learn them) but believe me american casters (so most of the important ones) can't pronounce at least half of the players' name correctly. Plus western culture is more prone to use nicknames, look at other sports, in many cases they use both the players's nicknames and real names from time to time, and sometime use only the nicknames.
For example, imagine if ex-sc legend Elky wanted the casters to pronounce his name, Bertrand Grospellier, well good luck for anyone who doesnt speak french. Now that he's a poker pro, casters still call him Elky, because he's known as such and it's easier to pronounce. (i didnt watch a lot of poker but in High Stakes Poker and TheBigGame they refer to him as Elky)
Your argument is that someone who earns a living casting cannot take a few minutes to practice saying someones name? Listen to how the name is said, repeat until comfortable, cast. God forbid someone would actually have to learn a non english sounding name. Seriously the more you hear the names the easier it will be. The only reason you don't know and cannot pronounce the names is because you haven't been exposed to them enough.
Casters might learn, although in my experience they dont. What about fans, take my example, they hear Grospellier they go to TLPD try to type something like Grapoleea, and thye wont find it. Or they try to learn Korean names, there are like 100 pros, and how many of them have Kim or Park or Dong or something starting with Yo.. in their names? Yes it can be learned, is it easy? No.
I love it when some people go on about how hard it is to learn peoples name from another country without even trying. I don't it is going to be hard to learn pro players real name, since all you have to do is to watch and follow the scene and at some point you are going to remember most of the pro players real names. Most likely you don't even need to try to remember their names since it will come around naturally the more you hear casters say their names or read about them in the forums.
I actually could learn very easily, i speak like 4 languages and can read in 3 more so i wont have any problem, but i ve seen and heard people and casters struggle. Open up any game any match where idk someone from a random EU country is playing, and you know how their names should be pronounced. Do they pronounce it correctly? most of the times they dont, even with superstars, let alone ppl who appear for the first time. Every thread would have 10 more pages of flame when a caster just flat out fails to pronounce or if two casters dont agree on how to pronounce it, or make fun of it god forbid because it sound silly or complicated.
And there are weird cases when a player is from X country but he hails from somewhere else so casters go like ok, he's German, we pronounce it like that, and it turns out he's Italian. If i'd be a pro i'd have the same problem, I live in Romania and am Hungarian and have a Hungarian name, but who cares about me, take Naniwa, he definetly has an Italian sounding name, but i have no idea if he has Italian background or how he wants us to pronounce his name. Or most recent interview of Huk, i mean, Huk, one of the foreigners on the hottest streak, the interview starts with the commentator trying to pronounce his name like 3 times and doesnt really manages, and he's Canadian for god's sake, try someone from Estonia or Hungary or any smaller European countries. Imagine the job of the weekly tourney casters where they cast games of players who are 70% different each week, or someone who tries to break trough, wins a couple of small cups but no one remembers him cuz they didnt learn his name.
Bottom line, it's unpractical, and creates contraversy.
I don't see how that is a problem since it is caster specific. Caster should learn to pronounce pro players names, because it is their job pretty much. It ain't going to be as hard as it is for say ice hockey commentators especially if it is live when there are a lot of players in field at the same time. Also casters will pronounce nicknames wrong too like Naama for example. But really, it is all about if the caster is willing to spend their free time to learning to pronounce players names right.
If people would start calling koreans by their real name, i would have no idea who the fuck they talk about. Besides, i think the decision should be left to the players...If you want people call you by your name, just change your handle to your name...e.g. Liquid`Tyler
We could try to change it, but it would have to be slow. I like the compromise with saying the Nickname in the middle of the full name. People like Boxer, Nestea, MVP, MC should be treated this way at least, they are established and easy to remember..
Why not call MC before a match "in the top right corner is oGs.MC - Jang Min Chul"? (oGs.SK if in a foreign tournament?)
On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote: The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced.
I was with you until the very end lol. Nony and Idra and even Klogon are all pronounced exactly as they are written, gamer tags are in general far easier to pronounce than someone's real name.
I am a musician, I have a stage name like most performers which I ended up taking as my "real name" (its on my drivers licence etc). My name is Kai Green, a simple name I think, however virtually everyone I meet can't get it right to begin with. I get called Kia, Kay, Karl. I often just introduce myself with my nickname instead, which is Switch, because people struggle with it less lol.
The days of people thinking gamers were immature etc because they use silly names is gone. Most gamers these days actually have some reason they use the tag they do, IdrA for instance is short for Idrajit which is a hindu god if memory serves. I agree that using real names would be a good thing but its also a little cumbersome when speaking fast and describing a game that moves faster than any real solo sport, there is a reason why in real sports people are usually referred to by their surname only while playing.... a gamer tag is no different.
Most people who aren't massive fans of a team or sport could only name players using their surnames, I couldn't tell you the forenames of half the players on the football team I support, mainly because I don't hear them very often.
On November 22 2011 18:25 sodapop wrote: Yes, nicknames should be used much more sparsely. The over-use is ruining e-sports. Or am I the only one that is somewhat embarrassed to introduce professional SC2 matches to friends just because the commentators refer to eachother as "Artosis", "Tasteless" & "Day Nine" and the players as "Killer" and "Nestea"?
On pronunciation, it's the same thing in all sports. Every other sports commentator can handle names from different countries. It takes 5 minutes of preparation, and that is something that I expect of the commentary.
Thanks.
I couldn't have said it better. Exactly my opinion!
If you really are embarrassed because of caster calling each other nickname, i feel sorry for you. This is a culture/scene where the nickname is how people identify each other, its a part of the scene. Its just how this "sport" work. I would feel really sad if it went away since its such a big part of this scene.
On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote: The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced.
I was with you until the very end lol. Nony and Idra and even Klogon are all pronounced exactly as they are written, gamer tags are in general far easier to pronounce than someone's real name.
Haha, so I'm curious. When you say my name, do you say the "Klog" part like clog or like clover. i hear both when people say it aloud, and now I'm not even sure what I think I should go by.
For Nony, do you say like "noon" or "know" for the first syllable. I've always thought it was know-knee and I believe that's how people said it during TSL, but I think Tyler says he's always thought it was noon-y in his own head. And I know a lot of people thought it was noon-y, too.
And I know casters used to call Idra both eye-dra (like I'd) and id-dra (like idiot). It wasn't until later on that it became standardized.
So no, these names are not as intuitive as you'd think they are because a lot of them are in fact either made up words or exotic foreign words mashed up into some meaning.
On November 22 2011 13:23 Greggle wrote: I thought this was about all the bullshit forced nicknames they give players, not their IDs. I feel like Tastosis assigns every single code S player a nickname, some have like 5 and they all feel so forced, we have MC as the Kratoss and July as the God of War... when you have two people with the same god damn nickname its quite clear you're giving out nicknames for the sake of giving out nicknames. Half the time someone is given a nickname for how they played in ONE game. Not everyone deserves one.
There's only a handful of nicknames I actually like. Professor Tea for Nestea teaching the world how to play Zerg, the Brood War carry overs are fine like Genius Terran for Nada, Son of Boxer is pretty accurate for MMA, but not many others really.
I also like Gracken for IdrA, i think that's clever. Tastosis the casting archon is great, I know they aren't players but its the same idea. I think some of the nicknames (not player IDs) are awesome and really tell a story.
When MC is introduced as the Boss Toss, or July as the 'God of War', I find it really exciting. Look at Boxer, he is the emperor of Terran, that is all. Everyone knows what that means, it has a story and history that any Starcraft fan, be it BW or SC2, can appreciate.
OT: I personally like using player IDs when casting/referring to players. I do it myself, and I feel - to use IdrA as an example yet again, that Greg Fields is a just another guy, whereas IdrA is a beastly macro Zerg. I guess it comes down to personal preference if you want real names used or player IDs, but thats my opinion
Inside the game it's better to use aliases. On bnet the usage of aliases are crucial and when there's more unknown players. I do think it's important for the casters to atleast mention the real name of the players atleast once (doesn't have to be at the intro.) In interviews, we've really got to start using the real names.
It would be soooo hilarious hearing all the american/english casters trying to pronounce french/german/eastern european names... Your better off with nicknames...
Thats no insult, but english speaking persons normally just have a really bad tongue/ear for "foreign" languages/sounds/words because they hardly ever "have" to use it...
On November 22 2011 12:12 SoKHo wrote: Yeah, it's a little strange that foreigners go by their handle. In Korea, nobody calls Flash, Flash. They call him Lee Young Ho, or Kim Taek Young for Bisu.
maybe foreigners started calling koreans by their ID's because they're too lazy to learn all the korean names, so might aswell call non-koreans by their ID's too then
Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote: Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote: Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
Then surely when real names are contradictory, team names can come in to play?
On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote: Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
When has that been a problem in any sport ever?
It hasn't because most sports have an association with teams, or different sports, where it could be an issue, otherwise it has yet to come up. There have been numerous cases in the NFL/NBA where people have the same name, but its their links to the team that separates them. The ID does the same for gamers
On November 22 2011 20:07 Hassybaby wrote: Adding to the reason I think that IDs should be used instead of real names; with the scene being so widespread now, there is a distinct possibility that we see multiple people with the same name in the scene. It hasn't happened yet (that I know of) but it may well happen
Sticking to the general consensus, lets say another Greg Fields joins the scene. If we use names, that may get confusing. However, there is only one EGIdra, only one Liquid'Jinro. Even if there are overlaps in names (Killer comes to mind,) team names come into play, and that makes the difference
When has that been a problem in any sport ever?
It hasn't because most sports have an association with teams, or different sports, where it could be an issue, otherwise it has yet to come up. There have been numerous cases in the NFL/NBA where people have the same name, but its their links to the team that separates them. The ID does the same for gamers
On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote: The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced.
I was with you until the very end lol. Nony and Idra and even Klogon are all pronounced exactly as they are written, gamer tags are in general far easier to pronounce than someone's real name.
Haha, so I'm curious. When you say my name, do you say the "Klog" part like clog or like clover. i hear both when people say it aloud, and now I'm not even sure what I think I should go by.
For Nony, do you say like "noon" or "know" for the first syllable. I've always thought it was know-knee and I believe that's how people said it during TSL, but I think Tyler says he's always thought it was noon-y in his own head. And I know a lot of people thought it was noon-y, too.
And I know casters used to call Idra both eye-dra (like I'd) and id-dra (like idiot). It wasn't until later on that it became standardized.
So no, these names are not as intuitive as you'd think they are because a lot of them are in fact either made up words or exotic foreign words mashed up into some meaning.
While you are certainly right about that it is rather uncertain how quite a lot of nicknames are pronounced - isn't it the same with real names? Hardly anyone pronounces my name (Aurel) correctly and aside from those rather unusual names there is so many names which have different possible pronounciations: the J in Jessica/Janine (in german) can either be pronounced like the y in "yes" or like the j in "jest". There is probably hundreds if not thousands of similar cases in english as well.
I'd say that a combination of both is what I'd prefer the most. Ie. Johan "Naniwa" Lucchesi. I don't know why but I think it adds some seriousness or something. I can't put my finger on what it is, I just prefer hearing their real name. And that goes even longer for casters, it's really annoying how they're using each others handles..
I don't mind using real names in conjunction with their handles. I think that the handle that is something unique to gaming culture more so than any other scene and I don't think it's necessary to do away with it entirely. The handles add some fun to it (from my perspective) and help players become more identifiable relatively easily compared to learning their full names all off of the bat. I know the real names of most of the established pro players (both Korean and not), but trying to remember some of the up and comes that we don't see very often is hard to do without having a convenient and unique handle that is easily memorised compared to a full name.
In the future I'd like to see both used, though. I don't want them done away with entirely as I think it's a unique aspect of the scene, but knowing players by their real names is also important. In other sports or fields plenty of people are known by nicknames as well, but they're commonly referred to by their full name as well. In friendship circles, workplaces and other sports plenty of people and players get identifiable nicknames. Even pro-teams (in Football etc) use nicknames as a part of their branding and culture to help the team be identifiable and marketable. That's the kind of balance I would like to see eventually.
On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote: The big difference between musicians using psuedo names and gamers using their screen names is the process in which the name is created. When an artist or a band decide on a name, they are coming up with a name that will best resonate and market themselves to their target audience. So Eminem feels that a nickname sells better to the rapping community and Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift feel that using their real name works better to sell themselves to their target audience.
However, gamers do not choose their name in this way. Usually, their screen names were created without much thought about marketability and instead are just names they picked as a flavor of the month type of deal. But once they get famous, they have to stick with it. This is what makes using SC screen names less appealing - because they are actually not that marketable to a broader audience because they were never intended to be. Thus we can be stuck with some pretty bad and terrible names purely on the judgement of players who may have come up with their names when they were socially awkward teenagers. This helps to perpetuate the perception that esports is simply a thing for kids who haven't grown up yet. And we all probably hate that stigma.
Truth be told, there are players like Ochocinco, Kaka, Chicarito, Shaq, etc from sports that use nick names. But they are the rare exception and often times are created with their fans. So I guess you can count me in the camp that would love to see more usage of real names, or even a combination of them, kind of like how Day9 has marketed himself as "Sean Day9 Plott" instead of just Day9. I think Day was onto something and it is something that many current gamers can learn from.
In terms of how hard names are to pronounce... yeah we sure do hate pronoucing Pau Gasol, Ichiro, Nadal, Manu Ginobli, DONGRAEGU, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, and many many others. Hell, our president's name is Barrack Obama. I think it's a fear that's unwarranted. In fact, I'd say it's harder to say Nony or Idra because who the hell knows how to pronounce those names without hearing it over and over on a stream? I think people today even disagree on how Nony was supposed to be pronounced. Hell, I don't even know how Klogon is supposed to be pronounced.
I was with you until the very end lol. Nony and Idra and even Klogon are all pronounced exactly as they are written, gamer tags are in general far easier to pronounce than someone's real name.
Haha, so I'm curious. When you say my name, do you say the "Klog" part like clog or like clover. i hear both when people say it aloud, and now I'm not even sure what I think I should go by.
For Nony, do you say like "noon" or "know" for the first syllable. I've always thought it was know-knee and I believe that's how people said it during TSL, but I think Tyler says he's always thought it was noon-y in his own head. And I know a lot of people thought it was noon-y, too.
And I know casters used to call Idra both eye-dra (like I'd) and id-dra (like idiot). It wasn't until later on that it became standardized.
So no, these names are not as intuitive as you'd think they are because a lot of them are in fact either made up words or exotic foreign words mashed up into some meaning.
While you are certainly right about that it is rather uncertain how quite a lot of nicknames are pronounced - isn't it the same with real names? Hardly anyone pronounces my name (Aurel) correctly and aside from those rather unusual names there is so many names which have different possible pronounciations: the J in Jessica/Janine (in german) can have either be pronounced like the y in "yes" or like the j in "jest". There is probably hundreds if not thousands of similar cases in english as well.
Yes Yes, german is very different in that aspect. So is English like you said. E is the most i found annoyance with. Chelsea, in the same word you have to difference E sounds...cheeeeeel at the start and eeeeeeeeee...so stupid. (Eeeeeee as in Eeeeek, and eeeeeel as in Hell)
But yeah im all for, people being called both. Introduced Greg "Idra" Fields. And talking to him as Idra in game due to his name being Idra in the scoreboard in the game, but any formal interviews with him call him Greg "Idra" Fields then you ask him a question then he answers and then you say "ok then greg (insert next question)" that sounds about right. The end it with "Give it up for Greg "Idra" Fields....sorted
Even pro-teams (in Football etc) use nicknames as a part of their branding and culture to help the team be identifiable and marketable. That's the kind of balance I would like to see eventually.
Yes excatly, there is MANY cases of this in football in the premiership, take 2 high profile players who play for Manchester United and Manchester City. Javier Hernandez has Chicarito on the back of his shirt and is what he is referred to as, and Sergio Aguero has "Kun Aguero" on the back of his top...
The older generation of us has already experienced this on multiple occasions. World Cyber Games tried to force it (I think in 2005) by having all players go by their real names instead of nicknames, during the same period all major FPS events like CPL or LANArena (later ESWC) tried it, then went back to real name and nickname combinations, and now we are back again to pure nicknames. The topic arises repeatedly, and is turned down again for the same reasons. Nicknames are a part of the identity of esports, as jersey numbers are for team sports (everybody knows the Jordans 23, even if you don't care about Basketball) Adding the real name information, for example in TV productions (as GSL already goes, for example), is ok, and I must admit it looks more professional. But the nicknames will always be, and instead of imitating other sports, we should stick to our identity and communicate it rather than trying to change what we love for people that don't care.
That said, Maj0r, Windy, Princess or whatever the hell he wants to call himself at the next event should be forced to be just referred to by his real name since it's so confusing to remember what he wants to be known by this month.
Handles are one of the biggest aspects of gaming and very unique to the culture. We should definitely keep them, just include player's real names alongside them as others have suggested. Back in CS some players used to include their tag along with their last names, we just need to do the same so people start associating names ALONG with handles.
[QUOTE]On November 22 2011 20:43 Pandemona wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2011 20:31 TBO wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2011 19:41 Klogon wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2011 19:31 emythrel wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2011 18:51 Klogon wrote: [quote]Even pro-teams (in Football etc) use nicknames as a part of their branding and culture to help the team be identifiable and marketable. That's the kind of balance I would like to see eventually.[/quote]
Yes excatly, there is MANY cases of this in football in the premiership, take 2 high profile players who play for Manchester United and Manchester City. Javier Hernandez has Chicarito on the back of his shirt and is what he is referred to as, and Sergio Aguero has "Kun Aguero" on the back of his top...[/QUOTE]
That's right, the players chose to use those names for themselves and I don't see a problem with it. Plus the teams themselves use mascots, symbols and imagery alongside their nickname to help attract fans to their cause. Some of them make more sense than others (Arsenal are called the Gunnners but use a dinosaur as a mascot etc), but it helps with branding and image.
I think it is super important for viewers to know player's names. This is especially true if you ever want to go to watch a real game live and cheer for players. I personally would rather hear people yell Lim Jae Duk Hwaiting~ rather than Nestea Hwaiting~. At least know the full korean names of all the korean players if you are going to watch any type of Starcraft or call yourself even a Starcraft fan. I memorized SO MANY Broodwar full Korean names. It's fine to refer to them in handles from time to time for like discussion and stuff but both should be known.
In American Football we call Calvin Johnson "Megatron", Benjarvis Green-Ellis "The Law Firm", Adrian Peterson "AP or ADP", Chris Johnson "CJ2K", there's MJD, DWill, JStew, etc.
People's names are long and all the same. eSports is unique because you can choose what your nickname is, like Ochocinco lol
I think it's fine to use both. Besides, the online alias has been a part of the culture for years.
Also, a funny side note: I have "real life" friends who call me "snex" more often than my real name. Basically, my alias has become my nickname... I hope that makes sense.
Unless your parents were acid tripping hippies or hegemony warlords. I bet your _HANDLE_, nick names is something completely different mind you, sounds alot cooler and is easier to remember than your actual name.
You should just be grateful we're not limited to 3 characters anymore, says oZe ;-)
Just to be clear. A nick name is what your friends call you because your name is to much work to pronounce or because you did something memorable.
A handle is what you chose to be known as in your quest for world domination. A name that is more real and has more meaning than the random label you got before you were or did anything.
Ps. When your favorite band is playing a gig do you ask your friends if they wanna go see Sven Johansson, Roger Smith, Serdar Mammadov, Lee Wáng & Kavitha Chakraborty or just the name of the group?
I feel that the handles is more about the show, and real names is more about skills.
If you use handles, then it is because the image of the person is important. You are trying to sell the person not only as a skilled person at what they do, but also the personality, attitude etc. This is what is done in show business, music industry for example has has been pointed out. People in general don't buy (well, download...) lady Gagas songs because they think she is one of the most skilled singers/performers in the world, but because they are attracted to the image (which of course includes the music) she represents.
When using real names, I feel it is a bit more about focusing on the skill and properties of the person him/herself. Like in most "real" sports, politics, research, industry. (steve "FruitDealeR" Jobs? Barack "pE4ceBr1ng3r" Obama? Albert "Einstein" Einstein?)
Pro wrestling i think is very good illustration of this distinctions, the "sport" that is more about show than personal skill, thus using made up handles. Another example is actors, that are known under their real names, as they are recognized as the best actors in the world rather than representing an image. Another example is opera, where again the singers are known under real names, as they are know as the best in the world at what they do, which is not the case in popular music.
Also note that "earned nicknames" can be applied even in skill-based context, and is normally accepted, but then you have to really earn it.
So in the end, I think it is a matter of how we want to sell e-sports to the outside world. If we want to sell it as the best players in the world doing what they do best, then I feel real names is better communicating that. If we want to sell starcraft as a really cool show with personalities battling it out, then handles are fine.
Me personally would prefer to see sc2 sold as skilled individuals, thus using real names, but I can perfectly well see how handles can be argued for. Also, if a switch is to be made, then it would have to be gradual, through Greg "Idra" Fields, and maybe only with new appearing players start using only their last name to identify them.
edit: using "handle" and "nickname" as clarified in above post.
internet is place for nicknames not real names.... e-sports come from internet so basically u have to use nicknames. and by the way when e-sports scene started to develop around the world most of caster had no idea of players real names. so they had to go for nicknames player was using and people just got used to it. simply as that.
I prefer real names. People make it out to be such a big deal to remember the names... Kind of like first day in high school, where all the people you knew might not be there and you'll have to do a few years with people you've never meet before... You're going to remember their name once you hear it enough times, just like the nicknames. Real names make it sound way more personal than a nickname.
In the top corner we have the US Zerg Greg. And in the bottom 7 o'clock position we have the European Zerg Greg.
Now Greg is sending his overlord to scout Greg. Greg sent his overlord to the wrong corner, this means that Greg is going to get scouting information first and will be able to see that Greg is going pool first.
Would it happen often? Probably not. Would it be annoying when it happens? I think so.
Besides...most people I know that I play online with I call by their handle even if I know their actual names. Hell, people I knew in person before I knew they played, I call by their handle.
On November 22 2011 21:32 mikiao wrote: In the top corner we have the US Zerg Greg. And in the bottom 7 o'clock position we have the European Zerg Greg.
Now Greg is sending his overlord to scout Greg. Greg sent his overlord to the wrong corner, this means that Greg is going to get scouting information first and will be able to see that Greg is going pool first.
Would it happen often? Probably not. Would it be annoying when it happens? I think so.
Besides...most people I know that I play online with I call by their handle even if I know their actual names. Hell, people I knew in person before I knew they played, I call by their handle.
lol have you ever watched real sports..?
They use their surnames.
Nicknames are an important part of video games and always will be. Pro gamers usually are different to how their pro persona is. When you hear about Fata1ty you think of one of the greatest gamers of all time.. now what about when you hear the name Jonothan Wendel. Doesn't really hold the same kind of value
I see this as an advantage over traditional sports, there's no way I could even remember a third of the players if they used their real names. And with the koreans it would be just a hopeless situation especially since alot of their names are often the same or very close.
On November 22 2011 21:32 mikiao wrote: In the top corner we have the US Zerg Greg. And in the bottom 7 o'clock position we have the European Zerg Greg.
Now Greg is sending his overlord to scout Greg. Greg sent his overlord to the wrong corner, this means that Greg is going to get scouting information first and will be able to see that Greg is going pool first.
Would it happen often? Probably not. Would it be annoying when it happens? I think so.
Besides...most people I know that I play online with I call by their handle even if I know their actual names. Hell, people I knew in person before I knew they played, I call by their handle.
Well, in (european proper) football, and i tihnk most sports, only the last name is used, so it would be "Fields", not "Greg". I've never experienced a problem in football, except when south Korea hosted the world cup, and at a certain point had 6 players out of 11 on the field named "Lee".... >_>
"Lee passing lee, dribbles, back to lee, drops to lee, faking shot, passing lee, lee shoots" Must've been easy on the commentators at least.
This again? You are spending 90% of your time on the internet and in Starcraft and identify yourself with an ID you created. Your real name comes into play when you pay your taxes.. The fans want to see the player, the online persona which is what the players are, not the one who pays taxes. Why should 'real' names be more valid? IF they become famous by both their name and ID, that's perfectly fine, but I see absolutely reason for requiring players to go by their names. Nicknames are also usually more internationally friendly. If anything players should be more responsible with not changing their IDs every monday.
At the beginning of the game casters should introduce the players by real names & nickname, then in-game by nick, and at teh end call the winner by real name and nickname. As simple as that.
Because that's just the way it is, ingrained in the culture of gaming in the west. Can you imagine how weird it would sound chanting, Chris on stage instead of Huk.
I have a friend who recently moved to the US from Korea. He has no idea who Boxer or Flash are, despite being familiar with the Starcraft scene. He only knows their Korean names.
I agree that nicknames are more memorable and quite frankly more badass than real names. I voted for nicknames but I think a combination would work out as well. I'd prefer nicknames to take precedence over real names while casting or otherwise, though.
i was actually at a bar in sweden like 4 years ago, and there was 5-6 koreans who i walked to and said "LIM YO HWAN!" and they were smiling and screamed SLAYERS BOOOOXXEEEEEEEEEEER -_-v
Reminds me of Xmen 2 Magneto: What's your name? Pyro: John Magneto: No whats your real name Pyro: Pyro
Our online ids are the names we give ourselves and are our persona. If people want to be known by their real name (at least in our current esport western culture of going by screenname) they can change their bnet name to be their real name.
It might be easier to deal with nicknames for the majority of people that follow the community, just because of the huge global scene that we're dealing with and all the new players that rise up or fall to the side. However, real names will bridge the gap between being an even more professional movement, and the growing hobby that we now have.
You happen to choose your nickname wich is the big difference with your real name. So do people want to be called like they want to ? Yes of course, if you are proud of your name, it can be your nickname. And saying "Huk" is so much easier than "Chrise Loranger" I really don't know what are the positive point of the OP for using real name except the "other sports do so". May I remind this is ESPORTS.
EDIT : When the nickname is just bad we may use the real name. Exemple : Killer / Sang Ho
Apart from all of the practical reasons, it's just a part of gaming culture. I've thought a lot about this (I originally agreed with the OP), but to be honest... if people think we should change this culture so it can "move forward" and be "more accepted" - then this isn't really achieving either of these things.
Nicknames is a fundamental part of gaming and the eSports culture.
On a slight side note, there are other more "accepted" sports which do the a similar thing (in the UK, at least). Things like snooker and darts include "nicknames" in their coverage. Admittedly, they do use real names primarily, but you'll quite often see 'Ronnie "The Rocket" O'Sullivan' for example. I don't see anything wrong with it.
I don't give a shit about how much money esports makes. I want Starcraft to be awesome, and if more people agree with that, that's great! But this "we have to change this and that because that's what mainstream society wants and we have to grow esports" shit has to stop. Edit: Because it's hurting esports *trollface*
Well, traditionally players become known by their nicknames, nobody is going to call their battle.net account "Bob Hansen" if their name is Bob Hansen.
Oh, and for foreigners, korean names are really hard to remember
edit: Also, JP has said "sean" enough times to compensate for all of this
Well, if real names were used, then they wouldn't say 'Greg'. They would say 'Greg Fields' or 'Fields'. So it really isn't the right comparison.
As for my personal opinion. I like it when casters use both. Saying Greg 'Idra' Fields when introducing players and so on, so that we can get to know the names of the real people behind the alias, meanwhile using 'Idra' during casting/analysis (because it flows more smoothly than saying a full name).
Imo nickname is the part of our esports culture. Makes it more fun. Even tho koreans may not know Boxer or Flash they give them names like The Emperor, Ultimate Weapon, Tushin....
I don't understand why people think that in order to "legitimize" esports you need to take away everything that makes esports unique. Having an online alias isn't a hard concept to comprehend, even for people who've never been in touch with esports before.
On November 22 2011 22:38 MangoMountain wrote: I don't understand why people think that in order to "legitimize" esports you need to take away everything that makes esports unique. Having an online alias isn't a hard concept to comprehend, even for people who've never been in touch with esports before.
for "us" (people involved in esports in any form) it's normal. For others it is really strange and I personally heard about 10 times up until now "why is this commentator called tasteless?". It's not normal to "them" and it makes esports weird for them
I am of opinion that using nicknames is just a way to keep holding to thwe image of "just a game". All sports in the world call their players by their name.
On November 22 2011 22:38 MangoMountain wrote: I don't understand why people think that in order to "legitimize" esports you need to take away everything that makes esports unique. Having an online alias isn't a hard concept to comprehend, even for people who've never been in touch with esports before.
for "us" (people involved in esports in any form) it's normal. For others it is really strange and I personally heard about 10 times up until now "why is this commentator called tasteless?". It's not normal to "them" and it makes esports weird for them
Then it's up to you to educate them about the culture of eSports. It's not like a nickname is a concept that is drastically difficult to understand in any context. They've probably encountered it before in their school or work place. If they're genuinely going to be interested in eSports, something like a nickname in place of a real name is not going to be that much of barrier to learning. On the other hand, if you're just gonna open a stream / vod and let them watch and go "so how was it?" of course it's going to be a culture shock for them.
I don't know why people want to change to real names to be like main stream sports, I just want to get rid of these handles because they are stupid. I mean really, every time I hear Idra or Tasteless or Day[9] or whatever I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. Fan made nicknames are cool, If Haypro had Banjo on his liquid shirt that would be awesome, but Haypro? No that has no meaning or story behind it which justifies it, just use your real name. (Forgive me if there is some reason behind haypro, just an example).
Yes excatly, there is MANY cases of this in football in the premiership, take 2 high profile players who play for Manchester United and Manchester City. Javier Hernandez has Chicarito on the back of his shirt and is what he is referred to as, and Sergio Aguero has "Kun Aguero" on the back of his top...
I've never heard a UK commentator call Hernandez chicarito and Aguero is always just called Aguero
The real name thing was tried by CPL in the early 2000s. The result was that in the first tournament nobody really knew who was who and they agreed to allow players to put their ID after their surname. This lead to everyone just looking at the IDs and ignoring the surnames and during the following decade no western organization has tried to abolish IDs.
Nobody will use their real name as their battle.net account name for privacy and other reasons. This means that anybody who becomes a good player will first be known by their ID. I'm all for having both the ID and the real name shown in big tournaments and it depends on the occasion which should be used. Would any English-speaking caster want to cast a match between Wieczoerk and Schenkhuizen? Then again, some players (mostly Koreans) come up with the worst IDs possible. Shin Sang Ho had it when he was SangHo, then lost it with BabyByeBye and Killer.
You have to realize the majority of people refer to each other with gamer tags (nicknames) that is how we know them. For example everyone who knows SC 2, knows Idra the marco zerg player. Greg fields on the other hand isn't as known as well, except by super idra stalker/fans, and people who follow sc2
We are doing it since the days of playing Doom online and Quake, where nobody had their real names, this spilled over to every other online game, and manifested itself to console online games with gamertags and psn names. As for why, i guess its because nobody wants to be killed by JohnSamson or RickWilliams, they want to fight it out against Razor and Killer
However that had nothing to do with pro gaming at the time, for example in the fighting game community many of the biggest stars are known by their actual names. Whereas in the FPS games its very uncommon to be known for your real name, i guess we in SC2 are sorta in the middle, but more towards nicknames than realnames.
On November 22 2011 23:02 Egyptian_Head wrote: I don't know why people want to change to real names to be like main stream sports, I just want to get rid of these handles because they are stupid. I mean really, every time I hear Idra or Tasteless or Day[9] or whatever I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. Fan made nicknames are cool, If Haypro had Banjo on his liquid shirt that would be awesome, but Haypro? No that has no meaning or story behind it which justifies it, just use your real name. (Forgive me if there is some reason behind haypro, just an example).
His name is actually Hayder, and he worked to become a professional gamer ----> Haypro. That wasn't really the best example to support your point.
I don't see any reason not to have real names as well. As the OP notes Korea has always done it that way and it can help esports be taken a bit more seriously.
(Not saying they should drop nicknames- just that they should display both.)
Do people that play amateur physical sports play under hidden aliases?
We get to know players by their aliases first, real name second in ESPORTS. We all come from an online community, where aliases are used. This is what people start to know them by, and I don't think there should be a magical line of when you're pro enough to be named by your real name.
Sure, include it in the player introduction, that I can agree with. But replacing some up and coming players names with their real name seems wa~y to strange for me. I don't even know or seen the guy, who is he on the ladder?
Yes, in a physical sports, they'll call people by their real name. Heck, in a game like chess they'll do so. But remember, we are ESPORTS, most players get well known online first, offline second. I would say Korea BW was just a fluke on how it happened, and it shouldn't have to be the standard.
So I kind of agree with people who say that real names make the game more accessible to people who don't play the game. However, I don't think we can use real names. To people like me with no experience with the korean language, Korean names are too hard to keep straight.
I honestly think that if we tried to start using real names instead of id's, Korean players would lose a lot of the exposure and popularity that they currently have in the foreign scene. For one example, I know who Alicia is because I can associate his nick with his gstl performances and other games of his I've seen. However, if we only knew him by his real name, I would never remember him individually.
I can remember the real names of a lot of Western players since I've been learning Western names all my life, but Korean names are really hard; I only know Boxer's because I watched a bit of the recent documentary someone posted a few months ago on TL.
Commentators using real names and players using their nicks might be one good compromise. Another might be for players to choose their nicks so as to build something memorable starting from their real name, like Liquid'Tyler (much more memorable than just "Tyler") or Jaedong. For example, if MC wanted people to use his real name, he could go by oGs.Minchul, or Ret could be Liquid'Jos. But I don't think that straight up using real names is a viable option.
Edit: I don't watch MMA, but going by what other people on TL have said, its rise is one of the most optimistic parallels to esports, in that it was a small niche activity that has become a big sport. They use both real names and nicknames/IDs. No reason we couldn't do that. In-game screens could just use the nicknames, and everywhere else we could write both of those.
On November 22 2011 21:32 mikiao wrote: In the top corner we have the US Zerg Greg. And in the bottom 7 o'clock position we have the European Zerg Greg.
Now Greg is sending his overlord to scout Greg. Greg sent his overlord to the wrong corner, this means that Greg is going to get scouting information first and will be able to see that Greg is going pool first.
Would it happen often? Probably not. Would it be annoying when it happens? I think so.
Besides...most people I know that I play online with I call by their handle even if I know their actual names. Hell, people I knew in person before I knew they played, I call by their handle.
In the top left of the map we have KiLLeR, in the bottom right we have Killer!.
Real issue: Korean names are much more likely to be unique. Western culture has a much smaller range of names, there can be a million Gregs out there but there likely won't be a million of the same 3 character asian name. Not to mention people use almost any character for the 3 character combinations... whereas Western culture rarely uses arbitrary words for names.
Considering Incontrol´s huge statement about "growing Esports" i think we should tend to name players with their nick and real name in big events that are made to reach not only the sc2 scene but reach other as well. The concepts of nicknames are unfamiliar to many people not playing video games and creates a barrier.
For us normal guys, i completely think nicknames are useful. Sure amateur soccer players don´t use nicknames, but they are not well open to public via a platform like this. Nicknames protect private sphere on internet activities. Plus nicknames are more individual. There are many many guys in germany that have my fore- and surname, as it´s very common, but im the only one using this nick.
if you dont have interest on seeing people been called by nicknames just dont play any game and stop making threads like that. nicknames are rooted way deep on gaming culture. since the begin of the times all gamer's like to be called by their alias. and for REAL what difference it makes on you enjoy a game or a cast? a name is just a name been your real name or an alias that some1 choose to use. every time they called Karl Malone "Mailman" you enjoyed less the cast ? do u EVER refer to Ronaldo Assis as ronaldinho gaucho?or Marshall Mathers as "eminem" ? and there so many more examples on real life where people CHOOSE to be called by their alias.
On November 22 2011 22:54 r3z3nd3 wrote: I am of opinion that using nicknames is just a way to keep holding to thwe image of "just a game". All sports in the world call their players by their name.
Because there aren't many sports which begin by creating an online account to practice under a specific handle. Other sports require you to just go fucking play somewhere with someone, thus nobody would call themselves or each other by nicknames (unless they are earned/jokes etc.)
On November 23 2011 00:25 whsper wrote: Real issue: Korean names are much more likely to be unique. Western culture has a much smaller range of names, there can be a million Gregs out there but there likely won't be a million of the same 3 character asian name. Not to mention people use almost any character for the 3 character combinations... whereas Western culture rarely uses arbitrary words for names.
This is totally wrong. Every other Korean is Lee, Jung, Won or Kim. TOP and Tassadar ar both Kim Jung Hoon. anypro, JHL and RenieHouR are all Lee Jung Hwan.
I remember Code A qualifiers where just korean names were posted and it couldn't be told who is who. That wouldn't happen in western tournaments.
It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
My thought on this is if some people are so closed-minded to not be able to accept a culture of nicknames - which gaming has had for decades -, then other aspects of the esports culture will turn them away long before the nicknames will.
For instance: - The terms and lingo being used in the game ("Rush, macro, noob, timing push, unit names ...) - Esports not being an athletic endeavour in the traditional sense (No big physical strain or activity such as found in football, tennis, etc...) - The theme/setting of the game being played. Maybe even the objective itself (kill the other guy? Why? Capture a flag? For what?) - The entire esports setting and advertising being focused on the gamer lifestyle (energy drink, blue LED lights, gamer gear, chicks dressed up as elves or videogame characters) instead of 'normal' style (cars, beer, high-profile-brand adverts, "support your country/team", barely dressed girls).
Just don't worry about people like that and instead work towards acceptance of e-sports by people who are naturally inclined towards it.
Well nicknames are easier for casters to remember on the fly. Plus they're easily pronounceable, and it won't make anyone bad if you say Leenock wrong, but can you pronounce his real name?!
Starcraft 2 isn't Football or any other "conventional" sports for that matter. We should try to legitimize ESPORTS for what it is, not turn it into something else.
On November 22 2011 12:08 Fuzer wrote: I mean for a normal guy who havent never heard about Starcraft 2 or other video games it sounds kinda stupid that they are calling each other by their nicknames, example Huk instead of Chris Loranger.
If the new guy doesn't know who huk is, what makes you believe he does know who chris loranger is?
it's far easier to know players by their nickname rather than their full name, can you name MVP, Nestea or MC? probably not but you sure as hell know their nickname from the games you've seen them play.
remembering names is far more difficult than remembering nicknames. Especially when there are people with the same or extremely similar names but never people with the same nickname and only possibly related nicknames.
i think it would be cool to have real names with flags just like in real sports. Flags are generally good, they incite country rivalries that generally add to a popularity of any given sport. But you can't force it. While the level of popularity might be new internets arent. This is by now a very old and established culture which got way past having 10 Neos in any given pub.
On November 23 2011 00:25 whsper wrote: Real issue: Korean names are much more likely to be unique. Western culture has a much smaller range of names, there can be a million Gregs out there but there likely won't be a million of the same 3 character asian name. Not to mention people use almost any character for the 3 character combinations... whereas Western culture rarely uses arbitrary words for names.
Korean names can be so likely that you have two Lee Young Ho that are BW A-Team Pros and 2 BW players called Kim Jae Hoon
I don't think conformity to social norms is the key to growth for E-Sports. Nicknames are perfectly fine in my opinion. Rappers, athletes, and musicians have all used nicknames before with great success.
This whole notion of "I can't take it seriously," is nonsensical. As long as an individual, be it a caster or player, has a certain degree of charisma and an ability to attract fans, there will always be people who will take them seriously. Having a handle or "gamer id" does not make anyone less credible. It actually creates a public persona that the casters and players can control as they become more and more like mainstream celebrities.
What is Lady Gaga's real name? I have no clue, but she is indisputably a very influential international superstar in the music industry. Marshall Mathers... oh you mean Eminem. Artosis and Tastless are the same in the realm of E-Sports and StarCraft II.
E-Sports is only in its infancy, and the reason for this is because it is something new. It is also something unique to our generation and our passion for gaming, which I believe further stresses the point that we (as gamers) should do what it takes to foster growth within our own community instead of trying to appeal to the general population.
In the interview with Sundance, he mentions that we should not be trying to "convert" mass audiences, which I completely agree with. We need to concentrate on building a solid foundation for E-Sports as a new and unique genre of entertainment that will naturally grow over time.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
This, so much this!
eSPORTS should get popular on it's own merits, they haven't changed the tennis point system to make it more appealing.
On a personal note, I think the gamertags are something that makes it interesting and different - outside of the games that is.
EDIT: Next up, we have "Eric Petersen playing as Humans vs Joe Smith playing Space Insects"
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Tradition, really? It's more about protecting privacy than anything about ''tradition''. Also it is not about getting rid of everyone's nickname, but rather using pro players real names in big tournaments like MLG. Which would mean their names would be more marketable, which then would help pro players get sponsors and make esports more known. Just think how are you going to sponsor anything with boxers name to some people who don't know anything about esports or/and starcraft for that matter.
Yes excatly, there is MANY cases of this in football in the premiership, take 2 high profile players who play for Manchester United and Manchester City. Javier Hernandez has Chicarito on the back of his shirt and is what he is referred to as, and Sergio Aguero has "Kun Aguero" on the back of his top...
I've never heard a UK commentator call Hernandez chicarito and Aguero is always just called Aguero
He gave a poor example, but there are plenty of nicknames for Brazilian players in football which do get used often by commentators. For instance: Kaka, Socrates, Pele, Deco and Dunga. It's a cultural thing really.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Tradition, really? It's more about protecting privacy than anything about ''tradition''. Also it is not about getting rid of everyone's nickname, but rather using pro players real names in big tournaments like MLG. Which would mean their names would be more marketable, which then would help pro players get sponsors and make esports more known. Just think how are you going to sponsor anything with boxers name to some people who don't know anything about esports or/and starcraft for that matter.
I don't see how using their real names in big tournaments changes anything. Sponsors are looking to get their brand out to the people who like the player. If the fans know Chris Loranger as HuK it makes far more sense sponsoring him as HuK than Chris Loranger - honestly, I don't know the real names behind more or less all the people I see play.
When I go online in Canada, as far as anyone I meet there knows, I AM EnderSword, or Tryal, or IceMan, or whatever I call myself. Especially if it's like an MMO type game, I'm Tryal, Dafoe, Atune, Saladin all at once, and the name refers to which character you're talking about. The name isn't just a handle, it often means an actual character or account. But in either case, I'm anonymous on the internet, I'm only who I say I am, and that's it.
In Korea though, you log onto the Internet as you, you're not anonymous, Their real names also have more information which is culturally important to them. It's also just a smaller country. Being a celebrity just works differently in a smaller, isolated country. Most people won't know what Lady Gaga's real name is, But I bet you'd find most people in Iceland know Bjork's last name.
In either case, I just don't see it as any form of issue or barrier. Like 90% of people at this point have at some point used an online nickname or handle. And if people can accept Madonna, Lady Gaga, Sting or Jay-Z then I don't see what the problem is.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Tradition, really? It's more about protecting privacy than anything about ''tradition''. Also it is not about getting rid of everyone's nickname, but rather using pro players real names in big tournaments like MLG. Which would mean their names would be more marketable, which then would help pro players get sponsors and make esports more known. Just think how are you going to sponsor anything with boxers name to some people who don't know anything about esports or/and starcraft for that matter.
I disagree, nicknames are far easier to remember and are far more catchy, especially for someone unfamiliar with the esports scene. It's a cultural thing, and people are interested by the culture, not by some common names you can find everywhere else. It is not bad that we have something different than the "regular" sports, because it will attract attention.
1. Why are people still saying 'OMG calling players Greg will just be stupid'. In other sports people use full or last names, not first names. First names just lack the necessary professionalism or formality, so first names alone are obviously out of the question in this discussion. Of course nobody wants casters to be saying 'Greg' all game long. Stop being so dramatic.
2. The 'Korean names are hard to remember' argument is ludicrous, and just downright intolerant. Every other sport has no problem with foreign names. Not to mention aren't we used to hearing foreign names all the time, such as on the news? Are people that xenophobic that they can't handle foreign names? We can handle the foreign names.
3. 'It's ESPORTS culture': well ESPORTS is young, and not entirely resistant to evolving or changing. Just because it's how it is, doesn't mean it must always be this way. (Not to say this is why we should change, but just saying this argument is not a strong one.)
4. The discussion in this thread appears to be very polarised, between nicknames only and real names only. I can totally understand that many are opposed to a complete switch real names. But what happened to a middle ground. Though a total transition to real names might be undesirable, it does not make sometimes using real names unacceptable, nor does it make the use of nicknames only the sole remaining option. Please consider options other than the two extremes. (Note that the poll has more than two options.)
Maybe we would like to consider that in certain circumstances (pre-game introduction, in-game introduction, introducing a player in interviews, or referring to other players in interviews, etc) you could call a player by [First Name] '[Alias]' [Last Name] (eg Greg 'IdrA' Fields). Then at most other points of a cast/analysis you could simply refer to their alias. This would not detract from the flow of calling a player by their alias during a game or discussion. Meanwhile it would allow us to become familiar with the real person behind the alias.
I myself am not only interested in this whole 'progressing ESPORTS' thing. Personally, I want to know more about the players, and real person behind that name on the screen, so that I can more deeply enjoy the games, the stories, the runs, the rivalries, etc. There are events out there that use both real names and aliases simultaneously, and I think this is great.
This point brings me to the next point below.
5. 'But people won't know who is who, and this was proved from the CPL experience, etc.': well, see above point 4.
(edit for post below)
6. 'What if two people have the same first name?': see point 1. 'What if two people have the same last name?', use full name or see point 4.
In a way nicknames represent us alot better then a word slapped on us by our parents. We picked our own nickname, or maybe other people picked it for us based on who we are, what we do/did. If anything I think our nicknames are our real names and not our parent-given-names.
Plenty of pros in other sports get fun little nick names, admittedly it generally works the other way about, as they will be introduced by there real name and then gain a nickname at some point.
But when you look at poker over half the pros have silly nicknames.
A lot of times when players get interviewed they already get announced by their full name + nick. (Manuel "Grubby" Schenkhuizen for example). I think this looks professional, because it combines the real life person with his online alias.
However during games i would prefer casters just keeping it by the nicknames of players. It'll cause less confusion. Casters could talk about Jos or Manuel but actual names ingame show Ret vs Grubby....... who's who...
Sport players or musicians go by nicknames (or aliases as you wish). We don't see TV hosts call them by their real names even if we know them.
iDra is called a lot by his real name (in reports or news thread). Most of the time not in TL but it happens. I find it really odd (And a lot of player who are not top stars are only known by their nicknames for the casual gamer/watcher).
And what about actors ? Wrestlers ? Singers ? Dancers ? Composers ? A lot of them use alliases
I like the idea of using real names instead of nicknames, but not because I think it will make new people more interested in ESPORTS. But as a way to introduce the player as a professional I think it makes sense to mention the real name of the player more often. All the big stars should be known by both their real name and their nickname in my opinion! Real names have more personality to them than a nickname. The gracken is one of the players that come to mind that have the most personality and is reconized easily by most by his real name as well as his nickname.
I don't think nicknames will cause esports now to grow. if anything I think it'll grow more because of them. You now have characters instead of just gamers. It creates more personality to the player.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Nicknames are considered childish in the real world. It's not a really important tradition, it's merely something people on the internet choose to hide behind because they're afraid to use their real identity. I'm not pro everything facebook, but that is something they did very well: by forcing people to use their real names (if they want to be taken seriously) they're also forcing them to behave like they would in real life, instead of like made-up persona.
If you want people to look upon the starcraft scene as a mature, professional competitive gaming scene, in a culture where the words "mature" and "gaming" are considered contraditions, you have to behave as mature, professional people, even if it means sacrificing some "traditions."
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Tradition, really? It's more about protecting privacy than anything about ''tradition''. Also it is not about getting rid of everyone's nickname, but rather using pro players real names in big tournaments like MLG. Which would mean their names would be more marketable, which then would help pro players get sponsors and make esports more known. Just think how are you going to sponsor anything with boxers name to some people who don't know anything about esports or/and starcraft for that matter.
I don't see how using their real names in big tournaments changes anything. Sponsors are looking to get their brand out to the people who like the player. If the fans know Chris Loranger as HuK it makes far more sense sponsoring him as HuK than Chris Loranger - honestly, I don't know the real names behind more or less all the people I see play.
It is much better for the sponsors if they get their merchandise known for more people than just HuK's fans and I don't think there is going to be much difference for fans if they sponsor HuK or Chris Loranger, because they should know his real name. But say if the sponsor tries to advertise with HuK for people who don't know about esports or starcraft at all. Let's say they try to sell some gamer stuff like new computer mouses for example. How are you going to tell people that this random dude we call HuK is some big shot at something they have never heard of and much less take it seriously. More than that who the heck is HuK? Some kind of advanced AI? Perhaps it is short for some sort of organization? Then let's say that if the sponsor doesn't have any picture of HuK in their advertisement for whatever, which create a problem if someone decide to act HuK for some bizarre. Now that guy could hurt HuK's pro gaming career a lot by doing some stupid things. So there are some reasons for you, obviously the last one most likely won't happen, but you never know, it just might happen when we least expect it.
EDIT: Should probably add that battle.net ID and a earned nickname (Boxer earning the nickname The Emperor/Emperor of Terran) will cause some new people to get confused, because it is hard to tell if they are referring to a other player or did he just have another more known battle.net ID in the past. Then there is the problem if some pro gamer decides to change his battle.net ID to something totally different would make most of us confused for some time. Best example here is obviously MajoR or was it cuteangle or something now.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Nicknames are considered childish in the real world. It's not a really important tradition, it's merely something people on the internet choose to hide behind because they're afraid to use their real identity. I'm not pro everything facebook, but that is something they did very well: by forcing people to use their real names (if they want to be taken seriously) they're also forcing them to behave like they would in real life, instead of like made-up persona.
If you want people to look upon the starcraft scene as a mature, professional competitive gaming scene, in a culture where the words "mature" and "gaming" are considered contraditions, you have to behave as mature, professional people, even if it means sacrificing some "traditions."
This is wrong on so many levels. People watch e-sports to be entertained, not to be reminded of the "real world" they work in every day.
Progamers need to be professional, yes, but they also need to be marketable. Hell, international mega corporations choose catchy "nicknames" for themselves, I don't see how gamers lose credibility by doing the same.
On November 23 2011 01:48 TheRooster wrote: What would poor juan (Terran,Major, Princess, CuteAngel, Windy, Memory, Oprah, Brittney, Kitty) do if he couldnt change nickname every other day T.T.
I think we should call him just juan to punish him for changing names almost as often as he changes teams.
It's part of the gaming culture to have a nickname. The moment we start taking that away is the moment we start to lose some of the essence of what esports is about....the game and gamer.
On November 23 2011 01:48 TheRooster wrote: What would poor juan (Terran,Major, Princess, CuteAngel, Windy, Memory, Oprah, Brittney, Kitty) do if he couldnt change nickname every other day T.T.
He would change his real life name every week obviously
Its too late to change nicknames to names, too many people to learn from scrach and nicknames are part of e-sports, you shouldnt copy mainstream to be mainstream, being different is good and not a bad thing.
Someone said "nicknames are childish in real life", if someone who thinks having nicknames in GAMES is childish do you really think they will watch sc2 in first place?
Screennames are fine, because that is how people know the pros and personalities. If I were to say Mike Lamond or Sascha Lupp, there is a good chance that you would have no idea who I was talking about.
Of course, it does have to be reasonable. I am looking at you x6cuteangel/sixjaxMajor/RootKitty/RootPrincess....
Its a fun little quirk that comes with Cyber sports. Language barriers are removed and its just a lot more fun and creative. With your nickname you can create a different persona, and its just a lot of fun, and not rly harmful at all.
Well...the Korean BW scene already does it. It gives it an air of professionalism. However, I don't think anybody would have the capability of following the SC2 scene with real names, as they've been going by nicknames for far too long to change back.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Nicknames are considered childish in the real world. It's not a really important tradition, it's merely something people on the internet choose to hide behind because they're afraid to use their real identity. I'm not pro everything facebook, but that is something they did very well: by forcing people to use their real names (if they want to be taken seriously) they're also forcing them to behave like they would in real life, instead of like made-up persona.
If you want people to look upon the starcraft scene as a mature, professional competitive gaming scene, in a culture where the words "mature" and "gaming" are considered contraditions, you have to behave as mature, professional people, even if it means sacrificing some "traditions."
This is wrong on so many levels. People watch e-sports to be entertained, not to be reminded of the "real world" they work in every day.
Progamers need to be professional, yes, but they also need to be marketable. Hell, international mega corporations choose catchy "nicknames" for themselves, I don't see how gamers lose credibility by doing the same.
Company name =/= gamers name. Those two doesn't even have anything in common.
Comparing musicians with proffesional gamers - great logic, really. Throwing decades of business development in other sports to the wayside, just because ITS ESPORTS is great way to go too. But enough of sarcasm. I don't have anything against nicknames, but just to appeal to both sides it would be good to present both real name and ID during bigger events.
i can see it both ways. for one, i'd like to be able to easily differentiate between flash and lucifer. on the other hand, real names would be good so that we don't need to know whatever the fuck gositerran is calling himself this week
On November 22 2011 12:08 Fuzer wrote: I mean for a normal guy who havent never heard about Starcraft 2 or other video games it sounds kinda stupid that they are calling each other by their nicknames, example Huk instead of Chris Loranger.
If the new guy doesn't know who huk is, what makes you believe he does know who chris loranger is?
it's far easier to know players by their nickname rather than their full name, can you name MVP, Nestea or MC? probably not but you sure as hell know their nickname from the games you've seen them play.
remembering names is far more difficult than remembering nicknames. Especially when there are people with the same or extremely similar names but never people with the same nickname and only possibly related nicknames.
Well... Most people know MC stands for Min Chul (his name) but otherwise that's a good point.
Same with DRG and SC.
In fact, maybe initials are the perfect middle ground... just a thought. Personally I love screen names.
tbh this whole thing about putting your whole life in internet is only beeen happening last few years
traditionally you dont put your info online because some sick bastard like me will get drunk one night and mess your life up.
anyway i prefer a nickname ... noone is called MrTortoise (except some asshole who sells them ... not anymore ...)... many many people have my full real name (all 3 names) because of when i was born.
Names are labels given to you ... nicknames reflect something about their owner as they are created by their owner usually.
Online country is only relelvant because of latency and language. Your given name is very closley linked to your country of origin. The internet is all about having no boundaries (contrary to the noobs who want to censor everything that makes them cry) I find Nick names work better for that.
It means you can be in a clan with a little racist white guy with a somalian and nobody has any idea. Was absolutley hilarious when we all discovered where we were from after 4 years of playing together. We all knew where we lived ... but not histories, race etc.
I agree that the nick name thing is wierd ... however i totally agree with abstracting / encapsulating away from your real identity. People do not understand security enough and have no respect for their own information. Nick names at least add a layer of protection and amusement to everything. I guess most people either have nothing to lose ... or do not value what they have very highly.
As Day9 said: Day9 and Sean Plott are not the same.
Imo they shouldnt be either. The sort of psychologicalization the casters and not to mention the community does all the time, should be about the player, not the person.
Nick names all the way. Maybe when I am getting paid millions of dollars to perform infront of the world then I would like my Real Name. Until then nick names make it more fun. The real names will make it mainstream is bullshit and one of the most over used words these days "mainstream this, mainstream that". Best way to do it on paper is John "Kralic" Doe. That is my opinion so it is right and wrong! Oh noes.
On November 23 2011 02:59 Lassepetri wrote: As Day9 said: Day9 and Sean Plott are not the same.
Imo they shouldnt be either. The sort of psychologicalization the casters and not to mention the community does all the time, should be about the player, not the person.
That wasn't his point, he was talking about private life and work, he can be Sean Plott privately and another Sean Plott at work.
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Nicknames are considered childish in the real world. It's not a really important tradition, it's merely something people on the internet choose to hide behind because they're afraid to use their real identity. I'm not pro everything facebook, but that is something they did very well: by forcing people to use their real names (if they want to be taken seriously) they're also forcing them to behave like they would in real life, instead of like made-up persona.
If you want people to look upon the starcraft scene as a mature, professional competitive gaming scene, in a culture where the words "mature" and "gaming" are considered contraditions, you have to behave as mature, professional people, even if it means sacrificing some "traditions."
I just want to call a serious bullshit on that one. Nicknames are not considered childish at all.
You are just stating your opinion in a very parental way. Saying 'oh grow up' ... it wasnt too long ago that people referred to each other almost exclusivley by their sirname and using first name was very informal ... thats changed. It is a conversation I had with my grandparents recently actually ... when i mentioned that ther are people i know in real life that i actually refer to using their online name they were astonished. There is nothing absolute. As an aside one thing that really amuses me watching eastern films is subtiltles that reverses the order of names so that they have family name last like in english. I really like that the family name comes first for them.
nicknames are a way of creating a group and a belonging to a group in real life. As for facebook and things ... its really easy *still* to get email addresses that are not connected to anyone at all.
The only reason why gaming and mature are not together is because of the generations above mine (40 ish stopped playing games after the speccy) and this whole online gaming thing was really new to my generation (im in 30's). In 10 years it will be my generation that is running things, and we dont think games are immature. Most gamers know that games are a way of competing but also serve as exercises in learning how to learn and master things. I don't think any other generation in the history of mankind has more experience in learning new things, exploiting them and generally owning noobs.
I know that if half the teenagers on this forum got jobs as balance designers they would have a crapton of experience to draw from. I can't wait to see how approaches to designing rule sets for games evolve over the next 20 years.
Anyone under 30 has it great imo ... i wish there were communities liek this when i was playing q and q2. I could of got paid to quit computer science.
On November 23 2011 02:59 Lassepetri wrote: As Day9 said: Day9 and Sean Plott are not the same.
Imo they shouldnt be either. The sort of psychologicalization the casters and not to mention the community does all the time, should be about the player, not the person.
That's just another way of saying that the way you act in a game or in your professional life is not the same as when you're with your friends. It isn't a unique reason to have nicknames in SC2 competitions. NFL casters go by their real names and I'm sure that they act differently in person.
Personally I do think it's a little weird. I understand why players have nicknames but why commentators? Mr. Bitter? Catspajamas? I always thought it would make more sense for them to go by their real names, and yes I'm sure it does seem particularly odd to outsiders.
On November 23 2011 02:59 Lassepetri wrote: As Day9 said: Day9 and Sean Plott are not the same.
Imo they shouldnt be either. The sort of psychologicalization the casters and not to mention the community does all the time, should be about the player, not the person.
That wasn't his point, he was talking about private life and work, he can be Sean Plott privately and another Sean Plott at work.
My point still stands. This is about private life and work for professional players. Its my interpretation, that players dont shed their nicks because they want to keep a distance between whats private and what is business.
What people think they know about players through community-gossip, casters rambling and watching their respective streams might have nothing to do with the person in private at all.
On November 23 2011 03:08 Vul wrote: That's just another way of saying that the way you act in a game or in your professional life is not the same as when you're with your friends. It isn't a unique reason to have nicknames in SC2 competitions. NFL casters go by their real names and I'm sure that they act differently in person.
Personally I do think it's a little weird. I understand why players have nicknames but why commentators? Mr. Bitter? Catspajamas? I always thought it would make more sense for them to go by their real names, and yes I'm sure it does seem particularly odd to outsiders.
It very much is another way of saying exactly that. However nicknames havebeen implemented in games throughout competitive gaming history. Refering to players by nicks is a part of the very discourse that is online gaming. This is not the case with NFL, baseball or the like.
As for the casternames. They dont pick a name for the sake of casting, i believe its just their gaming-nicks reused?
To reiterate. This is my interpretation. I personally wouldn't want to use my real name online when playing (any of you remember the wow-incident, where they wanted to use real names on forums? Didnt go so well, did it) and I sure as hell aint near being a professional in regards of gaming. To my knowledge its only Tyler who uses his real name as his actual nickname. If proplayers shared the view of such names being silly, they are free to use their birthname, are they not?
I heared car racing is popular, every pro player should wear a helmet! Also some people in professional sport don't like computers. To be more popular we should play without them.
Why are so many people think that something mainstream makes you professional? Its like the suit. Not the suit or the tshirt makes you professional, Its all about how you do, what you do. If you are a professional wrestler, well spoken comments are very unprofessional...
They have already tried once with playing with their names in Counter Strike way back. It was CPL 2003 and continued on for a while longer at least for SK.
DJwheat is casting it by the way. Despite all teams having their family names in their nick the casters always default to call the swedish team for their gaming handles like Potti,spawn and etc. However while family names was the easiest to use in CS it wouldn't work in Starcraft because of all Kim's, Lee's and Park's. I just think casters would continue using players handles because usually it's easier for them. They would most likely butcher "Ingermarsson" instead of just saying "Potti" but on the other hand sports commentators in other sports just rolls with it and everything is fine.
Well, I know koreans use real names and you can't really compare football players to sc2 players because they haven't exactly gone around and said to every caster "call me Potato" or w/e they want to be called.
Real names may help people connect with the players better, but I have never really thought "man, if i know his name he would totally be cooler to watch".
On November 23 2011 00:52 Roggay wrote: It's a gamer tradition to have nicknames and be called by them, and there is nothing wrong with it. That's actually a very good thing, because its much easier to remember a lot of nicknames than a lot of real names.
This argument of "if we want sc2 to go mainstream, we need to get rid of nicknames" is stupid to begin with. We absolutely don't need to get rid of a really important tradition just for the sake of "going mainstream", it will not help in the slightest.
Nicknames are considered childish in the real world. It's not a really important tradition, it's merely something people on the internet choose to hide behind because they're afraid to use their real identity. I'm not pro everything facebook, but that is something they did very well: by forcing people to use their real names (if they want to be taken seriously) they're also forcing them to behave like they would in real life, instead of like made-up persona.
If you want people to look upon the starcraft scene as a mature, professional competitive gaming scene, in a culture where the words "mature" and "gaming" are considered contraditions, you have to behave as mature, professional people, even if it means sacrificing some "traditions."
You missed the last couple of years. Internet is too big to give a fuck what 'real world' considers what. It's newspapers and TV shows who are trying to be assimilated into online culture not the other way around.
everyone who says we should use nicknames because sc2 is just a video game is blinded. SC2 is not just a video game just as basketball or soccer are not "just" sports. These are competetive activities and there is no reason to not use real names. I understand that it would be hard to memorize all the names of the koreans- or even all the western players, but hey- its part of following the scene right?
I think using real names would be a step in the right direction to going mainstream!
Honestly, they should give real life sport players distinct nicknames in the beginning. Hell, if Beckham was refered to as PinkStriker44, that would clear up alot!
Image is a huge part of being an (e-)sports celebrity and a nick name is self chosen and can convey a certain feel and image about a person.
maybe Nicknames + real names (just how they do it now) but nicknames are just more important. nicknames are short, special and meaningful. realnames are just nothing in the firstplace just names.
and yeah i will see 1 foreigner (except artosis or whatever) who can remeber all the kor pros by their real names xD
On November 23 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote: tbh this whole thing about putting your whole life in internet is only beeen happening last few years
traditionally you dont put your info online because some sick bastard like me will get drunk one night and mess your life up.
anyway i prefer a nickname ... noone is called MrTortoise (except some asshole who sells them ... not anymore ...)... many many people have my full real name (all 3 names) because of when i was born.
In MUD's (moreso in certain codebases) in the 90's (and early 00's) knowing players by their real names was common. So it's really something that was phased out to become known by nicknames. If there were multiple people by the same name, you would either add 2. (or 3. etc) to the front of their name, or the first letter of their main character. (And to this day, I still confuse people telling them to spell my first name with a k) But it was still mostly common to use their rl name.
On November 23 2011 03:16 skeldark wrote: I heared car racing is popular, every pro player should wear a helmet!
I'm starting to think this is a good idea if the tournament has any stairs. >.>
Personally, I think introductions should be in the form of name+nick. "Representing Evil Geniuses we have Greg 'IdrA' Fields" for example. As for the actual casting, I don't think it really matters as long as they're clear on who is who. (ie. they should probably just start calling major/cuteangel/terran/windy/etc/etc/etc Juan at this point, and possibly opt for real names if screen names are too similar).
It may only be a minor polish thing, but every small bit helps.
For the most part, players choose their handles because that's what they want to be identified as—at least within that community—just like most other instances of people using aliases (i.e. musicians, actors, writers). There's no reason for your opinion on what they should be called to really matter at all, imo, if that's what they want.
Plus, when you're a professional athlete in the spotlight, there is no anonymity and I really don't think that's the point behind gamertags for eathletes at all. And so we have the majority of events using the "Sean 'Day[9]' Plott"-style signifiers, and that's best of both worlds anyways; if you want to know a player's real name, you've got it. But the handle is their actual identifier in this context because that's what it was chosen for and in addition it's more succinct in casts and ties into the culture that is the main audience for esports.
Saying that all eathletes should be called only by their legal names because that's what football fans are used to is as silly as saying that all football players should be assigned gamertags if the NFL wants gamers to watch football. Regardless of whether the non-gamer demographic is bigger than the competitive gaming crowd, gamers are still the primary demographic that esports caters (and should cater) to. Most of us want esports to grow, not for esports to change into sports, I think.
The culture will catch up. We use nicknames because that's how it's been for the entire history of gaming, to deviate now would be pretty silly. 10-20 years from now when Esports are on basic cable or perhaps even network television, no one will think twice about someone's nickname being used.
Something to think about is how we attach names to people. When you meet someone for the first time you learn their name and you attach it to what they look like and maybe some small piece of information about them. Later on you recognize them by what they look like drawing on the connection from name to face. Whereas in Starcraft it is common to see someone play without any idea what they look like. But you learn how they play the game and some of their mannerisms. This makes it easy to attach an ID to the style of play.
To those who are saying that Koreans call the players by their real names and not their IDs makes sense because almost all BW in Korea is done live and broadcasted on TV. So there is almost always a face to attribute to the name allowing the connection to be made.
Whereas in the MLG this weekend i heard about Illusion for the first time. I never saw a picture of him or found out his name but I now know to look out for that name in the future. Maybe once he plays some matches on stage I will find out his name and then be able to connect a name to a face.
In conclusion I think that using IDs makes a lot more sense for now while we might not see the faces of all the players. But if Starcraft grows enough that we are always given a face to attach to the player we are watching then I think the switch will happen and real names will become the norm but not before then. (and some IDs are so much cooler than real names)
I return to this thread to make a point: if we want real names, what do we suggest to do with the usernames? Leave them? Or make pros change it to their real names? I don't think battle net would really add a real name option for privacys sake.
Also, if you want to be professional in front of non nerds, i think neither chris loranger nor huk is suitable. Its gotta be Chris "Huk" Loranger
Some people are mistaking Nick Names with something else...
A nick name is something someone else gives you that identifies you... ie) the emperor for Lim Yo Hwan...
Lim Yo Hwan calls himself slayers boxers as his gaming tag...
His real name is Lim Yo Hwan, he did not choose to be called the emperor,
If a player has a nickname because a mass of people decide to identify him/her as such, then I think that's acceptable, otherwise a real name seems more fitting
The nicknames are far easier to remember. I think the real names are better for.. how do I put this.. respect, I guess. If you know the guy as a cool person and not just for sick forcefields or something, the real names are better. Either way, I think they're interchangeable based on the situation.
It may seem dumb, it may seem silly, but it's just the way we have always done things. Nicknames are just a part of gaming. They are there naturally because everyone plays under a nickname online. Obviously this doesn't apply to sports where you use you real name because you play in person.
In the future I predict a slow switch taking place where people start to get known solely by their full name. But nicknames will always play an important role in games.
I'd like to see a shorthand nickname while the players are in-game, and for casters to use that while in-game. 'And here comes HuK with some zealots at the third!' just sounds better to me than 'And here comes Chris with some zealots at the third!'
Out of game, like in interviews, introductions and what-not, they would use their real name
That I think is the way to go
EDIT: I suppose you could say I'm looking for the distinction between the 'character' in the game and the person controlling that character to be greater. HuK the SC2 pro, Chris the person
The word nicknames seems really inappropriate as it refers to the names given by the fans to the player (and sometimes commentators) such as Gracken, Terran Emperor, Storm Zerg, Game Genie Terran, and such and such.
What you are refering to are their gaming ID which would be IdrA ,SlayerSBoxer, YelloW, Mvp. The reason why this is so prevelant is simply because of gaming culture as gamers have grown accustomed to this method of identification as it allows them to gain an extra sense of individuality amongst their gaming peers. Culture is also something not easily erased as even today we have such a vast array of cultures spread throughout the world that some seems stranger than others.
I doubt that we would also need a shift towards using real names to add legitimacy to our passion because as the modern day has show, we are shifting towards a more internet-centric culture and it is very unlikely that we would shift to older mannerisms anytime soon.
I gotta go with nicknames. Yes "real sports" use proper names. But I believe that's because most sports are team games. You already have creative labels such as "The Bears" "The Bulls" to apply to each side of the playing field. So you can talk about "Manchester's defense" collectively and it makes sense.
But in SC2 it doesn't make sense to say "EG's Mutalisk harassment is amazing" because there's a huge difference between Machine, LZGamer, and Idra's play. That's why we talk about "Idra's Mutalisk harassment" instead of "EG's Mutalisk harassment" or "Greg Field's Mutalisk harassment"
I think that it is okay to use both, it can make the players feel like one of us, one of the community if we use their real name. But other times it is out of place because they aren't well known as a big community person. Think about it, sometimes the casters call IdrA, Greg, that's perfectly acceptable, IdrA is widely known throughout the community as Greg Fields, however take maybe Kiwikaki, did you know that his name is Jonathan Garneau? Most people probably don't. Here it would be more appropriate to call him Kiwikaki. It's all relevant to the situation kind of. So ya my little spiel.
I would actually like real names, with nicknames for emphasis sometimes. Game IDs should maybe stay for the game UI only if SC2 wants to be considered a real "mainstreeam" sport. I like the korean approach.
Of course I still like game IDs, but they're so random sometimes that it doesn't add much to use them. I mean, Major (Juan ;D) should not be allowed to pick nicknames anymore, for example ;D.
On November 22 2011 12:14 Kieofire wrote: Nicknames are what they are known by and sounds better imo, plus it makes it easier on casters. You have to remember that some people have some difficult real names to pronounce.
This is true, cept some people like gswswesrwsswer and bratok and even idra getting pronounced in like 50 different ways haha edit: oh wow this is 20 pages late lmao whoops
Nicknames are an easier way to remember the players and people involved. Also, it's been this way for more than 10 years, right now it'd be awkward to hear some commentator say "Aleksey's warp prism harass" or "Fields' muta harass".
I like how player's are known by the nicknames they decide. Its kind of fun being able to "recreate" yourself in that way. Its also easier to recognize players that way.
But for credibilities sake I feel it is important to include the player's real names in certain situations. Especially when being more businesslike and formal about it. For example, it may be obvious, but including player's real names is important in news pieces or articles because it gives it a more official feeling.
Not to sound like a complete racist douche, but nicknames help me especially when it comes to Korean pros, as I'm not familiar with the names at all, so it's much harder for me to remember. Other than that I don't really care to be honest.
On November 23 2011 08:27 Arterial wrote: How many of you could remember EVERY single player's name? Be realistic here.
The reason why REAL names are used in other sports, is because thats what they GO by.
Pro-gamers go by their IDs because that's what they are known as.
I could easily remember the exact same amount should they be introduced to me as such. Real names are no harder or easier to remember than IDs to be quite honest. Heck, I'd remember Korean BW names if they were standard instead of their IDs for the foreign Community, and those ARE less easy to remember than IDs.
They are used because that's the name that gave them their fame, I mean most people won't call QIMNesTea "Jae duk lim". It's a game, and if people just don't like using nicknames they will use their names, like oGsMC (Min Chul Jang, i think).
On November 23 2011 08:27 Arterial wrote: How many of you could remember EVERY single player's name? Be realistic here.
The reason why REAL names are used in other sports, is because thats what they GO by.
Pro-gamers go by their IDs because that's what they are known as.
I could easily remember the exact same amount should they be introduced to me as such. Real names are no harder or easier to remember than IDs to be quite honest. Heck, I'd remember Korean BW names if they were standard instead of their IDs for the foreign Community, and those ARE less easy to remember than IDs.
It's not just one or the other, if you want them to go by real names you would have to remember BOTH, since in things like replays and such there is no choice but to use the game ID.
Remembering Korean names AND their ID would be hard. For everyone saying how easy it is and they already know who boxer, MC, MVP ect, what about the rest of the lesser known ones? What about everyone in Code A/those qualifying for code A? What about everyone who competes in the open bracket at MLG, are the casters supposed to remember the names of 256 players there?
Yeah it's easy for you guys to recall a select few of the better known players, but that doesn't prove anything.
And where would you draw the line at 'pro players'? Would casters at go4sc2 or playhem daily use their real names?
Much easier to keep what they do now; introduce them at the start of the game with the real name, as well as in interviews ect. But when referring to them mid-cast stick with IDs, since that is what they are known by.
On November 23 2011 08:27 Arterial wrote: How many of you could remember EVERY single player's name? Be realistic here.
The reason why REAL names are used in other sports, is because thats what they GO by.
Pro-gamers go by their IDs because that's what they are known as.
I could easily remember the exact same amount should they be introduced to me as such. Real names are no harder or easier to remember than IDs to be quite honest. Heck, I'd remember Korean BW names if they were standard instead of their IDs for the foreign Community, and those ARE less easy to remember than IDs.
It's not just one or the other, if you want them to go by real names you would have to remember BOTH, since in things like replays and such there is no choice but to use the game ID.
Remembering Korean names AND their ID would be hard. For everyone saying how easy it is and they already know who boxer, MC, MVP ect, what about the rest of the lesser known ones? What about everyone in Code A/those qualifying for code A? What about everyone who competes in the open bracket at MLG, are the casters supposed to remember the names of 256 players there?
Yeah it's easy for you guys to recall a select few of the better known players, but that doesn't prove anything.
And where would you draw the line at 'pro players'? Would casters at go4sc2 or playhem daily use their real names?
Much easier to keep what they do now; introduce them at the start of the game with the real name, as well as in interviews ect. But when referring to them mid-cast stick with IDs, since that is what they are known by.
This. Leave the names where it matters. its going to be hard (especially for new people ) to remember that Gregg = EGidra where as interviews could say 'Gregg "Idra" Fields'
just the other day i showed my coworker Sc2. they remembered the names of "Naniwa" and "DRG" easily cause they're short and sweet, but different. if everything started to use their real names it would be silly
On November 23 2011 08:03 Laurence wrote: I've been saying this to my SC buddies for ages. I don't see any use in Nicknames, we use real names when speaking about players.
I'm not sure who we is, but it definitely includes yourself so... you're saying that when Leenock won MLG Providence you were saying "Lee Dong Nyung just won MLG!" instead of "Leenock won MLG"? I really doubt that, but I don't know why you would lie just to make your point so... that seems very uncommon, and it is more difficult to remember Korean names as opposed to English sounding names.
I think if we give it time we can start using real names, but for now we don't have enough familiarity with the players to immediately recognize their real names. Like if you go Lee Dong Nyung I wouldn't be able to instantly recognize that as leenock. But if someone were to mention kim taek yong I would easily recall that they are talking about bisu. For now, because it is easier to remember player's more memorable nicknames than their real name, it is simply easier to use the nickname. But I think in the future when casters and the audience can readily and distinctly remember the real names of the majority of the players, it would be nice if real names were used.
On November 23 2011 12:38 creamer wrote: I have always wondered this myself, I feel like when and if gaming achieves the level of other sports, handles will disappear
or maybe the other way around.
Nicknames appear pretty goofy to anybody not involved into gaming and probably support the idea that it is all about role playing stuff for kids instead of a competition.
Sure, they're part of the culture, but not being taken serious by anyone is also part of the culture, and I think the names do play a rather big role in that.
If esports wants to become recognized as sports it will be a necessitiy to use real names to some degree to appear legit imo.
On November 23 2011 08:27 Arterial wrote: How many of you could remember EVERY single player's name? Be realistic here.
The reason why REAL names are used in other sports, is because thats what they GO by.
Pro-gamers go by their IDs because that's what they are known as.
I could easily remember the exact same amount should they be introduced to me as such. Real names are no harder or easier to remember than IDs to be quite honest. Heck, I'd remember Korean BW names if they were standard instead of their IDs for the foreign Community, and those ARE less easy to remember than IDs.
It's not just one or the other, if you want them to go by real names you would have to remember BOTH, since in things like replays and such there is no choice but to use the game ID.
Remembering Korean names AND their ID would be hard. For everyone saying how easy it is and they already know who boxer, MC, MVP ect, what about the rest of the lesser known ones? What about everyone in Code A/those qualifying for code A? What about everyone who competes in the open bracket at MLG, are the casters supposed to remember the names of 256 players there?
Yeah it's easy for you guys to recall a select few of the better known players, but that doesn't prove anything.
And where would you draw the line at 'pro players'? Would casters at go4sc2 or playhem daily use their real names?
Much easier to keep what they do now; introduce them at the start of the game with the real name, as well as in interviews ect. But when referring to them mid-cast stick with IDs, since that is what they are known by.
You kinda missed the point. If names were all we had to go by, or were the standard to go by, we wouldn't have as much problem as some people seem to be making it out to be.
When I first started following the SC2 scene and watching casts, I remember being very turned off by the almost exclusive use of nicknames. It seemed goofy, like it was the idea of some advertising executive to make esports "xtreme". After a few months following the scene pretty religiously it feels totally natural, but based on my own initial reaction, I can see the use of nicknames being detrimental to the growth and acceptance of esports.
There's a pretty good reason behind their use anyway. So much of the game occurs online, over battle.net, where players exist only as nicknames. It's pretty essential to have continuity between tournaments (and other live appearances) and the online component of the game, for the sake of building reputations and personalities, which esports needs.
I like the use of IDs, and I can't think of any argument for using real names, other than "we should be more like real sports so I won't be embarrassed in front of my jock friends".
Competitive gaming is still gaming. Gamers use IDs.
Besides that I agree that nicknames make it easier to remember who is who among players, I also like the flavour the nicknames give to the players. I remember when i started playing sc2 for about two months ago and heard the name Marineking and immediately wanted to know everything about him.
I dont understand how nicknames are slowing scII's growth. Can't anything be done which is a little different from traditional sports? It is the kind of thing, I believe, that can actually help people enter the gaming scene.
I think we should stick with the nick names. Besides korean StarCraft I don't know of any other eSports where we don't stick to the nick names and the players and casters are not well known by their nick names.
It might look more professional to use the real names only - but honestly we do live in a digital age, the age of the internet where you have a nick name almost everywhere (besides social networks maybe). It is just normal to use nick names on the internet. eSports is deeply connected to the internet, the origins lay within the internet and of course LAN's. Our all origins are games - and a nick name is just normal in the gaming world. If there is one thing I don't want to be changed while eSports becomes more and more professional it is the use of nick names.
My suggestion: stick to real AND nick names and use terms like Nick "Tasteless" Plott. It works for so many years already. Take for example SK Gaming, one of the oldest and most successful eSports organizations: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ They also use both options.
People are saying that in GSL they strictly use the player names.. If thats true why do the little videos with thte girls and the announcer use there nicknames? I partially think Koreans use there nicknames to have an English word recognized by them since us westerners would get too confused.
I enjoy both. I feel like I know most of the American players by first name anyhow. Definitely not Korean/European players due to lack of exposure to them on a weekly basis.
There's nothing wrong with it. You could see it as some form of artist's name, akin to musicians and bands. It would be preferable, if casters and general media would mention the real names along with that. Everybody whose interest is piqued can then familiarize himself with this player further. I think things will come naturally. Much like Sheth, TLO, Idra, Huk are also widely known by their real name. There's no need to force things
On November 26 2011 05:35 S_SienZ wrote: Javier "Chicharito" Hernandez. More and more IRL sports icons are having nicknames as well.
First "Handle" Last format is the best. A player's name and his handle should never be cannibalistic rather complimentary.
For western names, I agree. But for Korean ones, God no. I cringe every time I see something like Lim "Boxer" Yo Hwan (although Lee "Jaedong" Jaedong would be pretty funny). It just sounds awful and awkward. Korean full names should always be a cohesive unit.
Yeah they definitely should add real names (alongside with handles) in stream overlays and player introductions. I like to know players' real names and there's really no reason to hide them.
I would rather be called "Beauty" rather then "Sadie" I think it's because it is my established nickname that I have on SC2 and it's what I go by. I think nicknames are cute and it's a name you create for yourself.
I don't care that much by now but i do think real names should always be included and then the nickname.
I dont have a problem with nicknames, hell, a lot of football players are referred to by their nicknames. BUT, I believe the real name should always be included and as the introduction to the player.
ex. the player is introduced first with their name, "Ben(jamin) Baker." Then loudly stated "Demuslim!"
On November 26 2011 09:13 Goshdarnit wrote: I don't care that much by now but i do think real names should always be included and then the nickname.
I dont have a problem with nicknames, hell, a lot of football players are referred to by their nicknames. BUT, I believe the real name should always be included and as the introduction to the player.
ex. the player is introduced first with their name, "Ben(jamin) Baker." Then loudly stated "Demuslim!"
That's a good idea. I would love to have Sadie Hart (insert sick bass drop) BEAUTY!!
On November 26 2011 10:30 debasers wrote: I wish there wasnt this thing that game NEEDS to have nicknames.
Like, yeah, at home you should use it, but i do think that real names in live events would be great for the scene
But a lot of people only know a gamer by their username like me I don't know anyones real name unless we become facebook friends or REAL ID and even then most of my friends REAL ID name is like "Pro Player" "Pro Gramer". I think it should be real name then nickname. Some names are feirce.
I love the feel of nicknames, to me it means so much more than some name you were given 16-30 years ago that has nothing to do with your personality or style. I love my parents but I don't connect to my real name in the same way I connect to my id, because I made it specifically tailored to me.
nick names are fine, they have them in every sport except not every player has one. In UFC you have Mark "The Hammer" Hamil among others.
they are kind of necessary in games because of how most games are created. When you first open a game, does it ask for your first and last name? no, never, it's always a nick name.
Like many have said before, I like what Tasteless does when he introduces himself as Nick "Tasteless" Plott.
Nicknames are alright I guess, but I feel like it would be better to start using real names during casts, which would lead to casual on-lookers take the scene a bit more seriously.
Ideally, introducing the players at the start with First-nick-last names, and then refer to the players by their real names for the rest of the game would be best.
On November 26 2011 10:51 leveller wrote: I can understand using nicks for players even if I would prefer real names
But please it is just ridiculous to hear two caster sit right next to eachother and not use eachothers real names. Come on guys.
YES, this! Casters really need to start using their real names.
I definitely agree with that notion.
Every other game in the Western market uses first name followed by the alias followed by last name. It works for the foreigners quite well, but as others have mentioned it just sounds really weird when it comes to the Korean names:
On November 22 2011 12:52 Arisen wrote: Look, this is a game. The reason everyone got to where they are today is becuase they loved this game and and the culture; by trying taking out part of the culture like ID's, you're trying to take out a big part of what makes Starcraft what it is. No one wants to hear about Greg Fields, because Greg Fields sounds fucking boring, EVERYONE wants to hear about IdrA though. People need to stop being so fucking serious and just enjoy things for once without caring about X or Y or Z "hurting esports".
See, this right here is how culturally divided Korea is from the "rest". I'm sure the argument you just made wouldn't fly in Korea where they don't see using their real names as being boring at all.
Yeah, there is still a huge division between the two. I don't mind it though. Just makes us more culturally diverse. If we were to tie in their real names it would definitely become more personable.
ilovelings, players don't necessarily come up with those nicknames themselves; they're given by the people too.
Personally I think people are more identifiable by their nickname than their real name in Starcraft 2. I mean people say that in Korea more people would know who you were talking about if you said Lee Young Ho instead of FlaSh but I'm sure that in most other countries it would be the opposite especially for players who are just getting new to the scene.
I have a lot of friends who have gotten a tad into BW since they really like SC2 and if I said "Man did you guys here EffOrt is coming back?!" they would probably say "Oh really, that's awesome!" but if I said "Man you guys here Kim Jung Woo is back?!" they would be like "Who?...". I mean obvious names like Jaedongs and popular people like BoxeR are easy to identify by their actual names but for others who are not one of the world's best or not one of the world's most popular, their nickname is more memorable and frankly just easier in terms of remembrance and convenience. Never hurts to learn people's real name though! ^_^
It's the same in WWE/etc. You say "The Rock", not Dwayne Johnson.
Also, everyone knows who Huk is, but say Chris Loranger and they might be wondering, "Who is that?".
Same goes for Koreans. I bet most people don't know who Lim Jae Duk is, but when you say Nestea, they'd all know. (unless, of course, they've been living under a rock for the entirety of Nestea's dream)
For the people saying that nicknames turn people off to the game, those people wouldn't like the game anyways. Nobody's going to be put off to the game just because professional players are called by their handles instead of their real names. This is evidenced by all the posts here. A person isn't going to "hate esports" just because they don't like nicknames. They may dislike nicknames but I doubt that's enough to make someone hate the sport itself.
That being said, I think it's ridiculous when the checks are made out to the player's handles. Imagine cashing a check made out to "DeMusliM".
in a typical sports games, last names are on the jerseys of the players, making it easy for spectators to see and determine who is who
but in sc2 we just see their ign in which it's easiest if casters call them by their ign. unless people are required to use their real name as their ign, the simplest way would be to use nicknames
On November 26 2011 11:59 dhe95 wrote: in a typical sports games, last names are on the jerseys of the players, making it easy for spectators to see and determine who is who
but in sc2 we just see their ign in which it's easiest if casters call them by their ign. unless people are required to use their real name as their ign, the simplest way would be to use nicknames
I'm reminded of the XFL, where players were allowed to go by nicknames if they wanted to.
I feel like there's an easy way to fix this, that way being just first name > alias > last name. Greg 'idra' Fields sounds professional and it doesn't drop the alias. It would get tiresome to say that all through a cast, so maybe just use that during the introduction and use nicknames throughout the game. The people saying that the nicknames turns off a lot of casual viewers do have a point, though. I tried to show some of my family what Starcraft is this thanksgiving and a lot of them thought that the nicknames were stupid, and it made competitive gaming seem a lot more childish to them. Casters seriously do need to start transitioning into using their real names when they're together as well. I've watched tons of Starcraft and it still feels weird to me when Dan calls Nick 'tasteless'.
On November 26 2011 12:22 Noak3 wrote: The people saying that the nicknames turns off a lot of casual viewers do have a point, though. I tried to show some of my family what Starcraft is this thanksgiving and a lot of them thought that the nicknames were stupid, and it made competitive gaming seem a lot more childish to them.
And this is a problem why? How about we try to attract people that are actually interested and somewhat involved in gaming as opposed to your gran, your aunt the knitting fan, some random football fans and a guy who's never played a game in his life? You know, try and make e-sports as interesting and appealing for the people it is targeted at?
I really don't understand why people seem to think that we must market e-sports for the masses. Why? So we can have commercial breaks during matches as well? So we can casually talk about Starcraft during coffee breaks with anyone at the office that doesn't actually know shit about the game and has semi-watched a game on TV once?
I'm all for e-sports expanding, but let's expand where there actually is room for us instead of trying to change every single aspect of the scene that might be unattractive to *random demographic* and lose everything e-sports is in the process.
On November 26 2011 11:59 dhe95 wrote: in a typical sports games, last names are on the jerseys of the players, making it easy for spectators to see and determine who is who
but in sc2 we just see their ign in which it's easiest if casters call them by their ign. unless people are required to use their real name as their ign, the simplest way would be to use nicknames
I'm reminded of the XFL, where players were allowed to go by nicknames if they wanted to.
I actually didn't know the XFL existed until just now, but either way, did the casters call them by their names or nicknames? and still, the majority of sports uses the names that are shown, the names that a typical person would easily understand by looking on the screen
On November 26 2011 12:22 Noak3 wrote: The people saying that the nicknames turns off a lot of casual viewers do have a point, though. I tried to show some of my family what Starcraft is this thanksgiving and a lot of them thought that the nicknames were stupid, and it made competitive gaming seem a lot more childish to them.
And this is a problem why? How about we try to attract people that are actually interested and somewhat involved in gaming as opposed to your gran, your aunt the knitting fan, some random football fans and a guy who's never played a game in his life? You know, try and make e-sports as interesting and appealing for the people it is targeted at?
I really don't understand why people seem to think that we must market e-sports for the masses. Why? So we can have commercial breaks during matches as well? So we can casually talk about Starcraft during coffee breaks with anyone at the office that doesn't actually know shit about the game and has semi-watched a game on TV once?
I'm all for e-sports expanding, but let's expand where there actually is room for us instead of trying to change every single aspect of the scene that might be unattractive to *random demographic* and lose everything e-sports is in the process.
If we're going to follow you're logic, it's practically saying, "Hey, let's wait till someone comes to us."
No, that's not how you grow an industry. The spirit of e-sports will remain the same as so long as people continue to play for the sake of the game, but in terms of growing e-sports as in industry, you have to appeal to the masses.
A lot of people want to see this expand to where it becomes something to talk about during office-break times. You know why? Because it shows how legitimate e-sports really is.
Tell me, would you rather travel 30 miles to find an e-cafe or be able to watch MLG at your local bar and enjoy it with your friends? The way we view the scene must change if we want e-sports to expand. Otherwise, it won't be e-sports anymore. It'll be just a game.
That being said, handles/nicknames have been a relatively important part of the game since day one. But, it would be nice to throw in the actual name, then the nickname. (Kinda like they do announcing for wrestling/boxing matches where there are nicknames)
On November 26 2011 11:59 dhe95 wrote: in a typical sports games, last names are on the jerseys of the players, making it easy for spectators to see and determine who is who
but in sc2 we just see their ign in which it's easiest if casters call them by their ign. unless people are required to use their real name as their ign, the simplest way would be to use nicknames
I'm reminded of the XFL, where players were allowed to go by nicknames if they wanted to.
I actually didn't know the XFL existed until just now, but either way, did the casters call them by their names or nicknames? and still, the majority of sports uses the names that are shown, the names that a typical person would easily understand by looking on the screen
Nicknames... "he hate me" was quite popular. The XFL is what I like to call a failed experiment, they tried to make NFL Blitz into reality without actually having all the things that made Blitz great.
On November 26 2011 12:22 Noak3 wrote: The people saying that the nicknames turns off a lot of casual viewers do have a point, though. I tried to show some of my family what Starcraft is this thanksgiving and a lot of them thought that the nicknames were stupid, and it made competitive gaming seem a lot more childish to them.
And this is a problem why? How about we try to attract people that are actually interested and somewhat involved in gaming as opposed to your gran, your aunt the knitting fan, some random football fans and a guy who's never played a game in his life? You know, try and make e-sports as interesting and appealing for the people it is targeted at?
I really don't understand why people seem to think that we must market e-sports for the masses. Why? So we can have commercial breaks during matches as well? So we can casually talk about Starcraft during coffee breaks with anyone at the office that doesn't actually know shit about the game and has semi-watched a game on TV once?
I'm all for e-sports expanding, but let's expand where there actually is room for us instead of trying to change every single aspect of the scene that might be unattractive to *random demographic* and lose everything e-sports is in the process.
If we're going to follow you're logic, it's practically saying, "Hey, let's wait till someone comes to us."
No, that's not how you grow an industry. The spirit of e-sports will remain the same as so long as people continue to play for the sake of the game, but in terms of growing e-sports as in industry, you have to appeal to the masses.
A lot of people want to see this expand to where it becomes something to talk about during office-break times. You know why? Because it shows how legitimate e-sports really is.
Tell me, would you rather travel 30 miles to find an e-cafe or be able to watch MLG at your local bar and enjoy it with your friends? The way we view the scene must change if we want e-sports to expand. Otherwise, it won't be e-sports anymore. It'll be just a game.
That being said, handles/nicknames have been a relatively important part of the game since day one. But, it would be nice to throw in the actual name, then the nickname. (Kinda like they do announcing for wrestling/boxing matches where there are nicknames)
OR, we could grow a pair and stop giving a damn what non-gamers think about e-sports. They are people who are irrelevant to the day-to-day of SC2 and progaming.
I love e-sports and gaming in general, but I'm also a realist. 90% of the people I know will not watch other people play videogames, period. Whether or not they use nicknames or real names, have sponsors or not, BM or not, play fifa/madden type games or high-fantasy strategy games/MMO's ... it doesn't matter. They simply aren't into gaming, let alone competitive gaming, and nothing is going to change that. Just like the majority of self-identifying gamers typically aren't the biggest physical sports guys, or how some people read books instead of watch TV, while others go see a play. It's a different demographic with different interests, lifestyle, likes/dislikes, opinions and preferred ways to spend their afternoons. Now, we could completely eliminate gaming culture from the phenomenon of e-sports, in an attempt to make it into an easily digestible mass-produced and socially inconspicuous husk of what it used to be, while naïvely believing that we can get the entire world to love SC2, or...
Wanna watch Sc2 in a sports bar? Just do it and do not even pay attention to whether or not random bystanders think your sport of choice is legitimate. Grow some damn balls. When I read this thread, most of what I see is disguised "I wanna make SC2 look serious because someone was dismissive of it once and now I feel like I have to prove myself."
The only reason you have to drive 30 miles to get to a barcraft now is because the amount of organized barcrafts are relatively low still and because - surprise, smallish towns or cities won't have them due to an absense of SC2-watching people that aren't already going to a bigger event.
"But attracting more viewers will improve that situation, and this is only possible by pandering to the masses!"
False. Even if we change all the nicknames and stages/venues, then change the game to have middle eastern versus western instead of earthlings versus bugs versus aliens - most of the population simply will not spend their evening watching videogames. Hell, most of them will not even play games themselves.
Some gamers will. Our goal, for those who want to expand e-sports, is to change "some gamers" to "a lot of gamers". Not "everyone and their sister, who aren't actually into videogames at all". These are people who know what games are like, what it feels like to get that one crucial kill at the right time. They know first hand how unforgivingly difficult games can be. They know what a rush close games can offer, and have only to discover what the tournament scene can offer them. Wanna expand e-sports? Expand there. Your 50-year old uncle probably isn't interested.
On November 26 2011 12:22 Noak3 wrote: The people saying that the nicknames turns off a lot of casual viewers do have a point, though. I tried to show some of my family what Starcraft is this thanksgiving and a lot of them thought that the nicknames were stupid, and it made competitive gaming seem a lot more childish to them.
And this is a problem why? How about we try to attract people that are actually interested and somewhat involved in gaming as opposed to your gran, your aunt the knitting fan, some random football fans and a guy who's never played a game in his life? You know, try and make e-sports as interesting and appealing for the people it is targeted at?
I really don't understand why people seem to think that we must market e-sports for the masses. Why? So we can have commercial breaks during matches as well? So we can casually talk about Starcraft during coffee breaks with anyone at the office that doesn't actually know shit about the game and has semi-watched a game on TV once?
I'm all for e-sports expanding, but let's expand where there actually is room for us instead of trying to change every single aspect of the scene that might be unattractive to *random demographic* and lose everything e-sports is in the process.
If we're going to follow you're logic, it's practically saying, "Hey, let's wait till someone comes to us."
No, that's not how you grow an industry. The spirit of e-sports will remain the same as so long as people continue to play for the sake of the game, but in terms of growing e-sports as in industry, you have to appeal to the masses.
A lot of people want to see this expand to where it becomes something to talk about during office-break times. You know why? Because it shows how legitimate e-sports really is.
Tell me, would you rather travel 30 miles to find an e-cafe or be able to watch MLG at your local bar and enjoy it with your friends? The way we view the scene must change if we want e-sports to expand. Otherwise, it won't be e-sports anymore. It'll be just a game.
That being said, handles/nicknames have been a relatively important part of the game since day one. But, it would be nice to throw in the actual name, then the nickname. (Kinda like they do announcing for wrestling/boxing matches where there are nicknames)
OR, we could grow a pair and stop giving a damn what non-gamers think about e-sports. They are people who are irrelevant to the day-to-day of SC2 and progaming.
I love e-sports and gaming in general, but I'm also a realist. 90% of the people I know will not watch other people play videogames, period. Whether or not they use nicknames or real names, have sponsors or not, BM or not, play fifa/madden type games or high-fantasy strategy games/MMO's ... it doesn't matter. They simply aren't into gaming, let alone competitive gaming, and nothing is going to change that. Just like the majority of self-identifying gamers typically aren't the biggest physical sports guys, or how some people read books instead of watch TV, while others go see a play. It's a different demographic with different interests, lifestyle, likes/dislikes, opinions and preferred ways to spend their afternoons. Now, we could completely eliminate gaming culture from the phenomenon of e-sports, in an attempt to make it into an easily digestible mass-produced and socially inconspicuous husk of what it used to be, while naïvely believing that we can get the entire world to love SC2, or...
Wanna watch Sc2 in a sports bar? Just do it and do not even pay attention to whether or not random bystanders think your sport of choice is legitimate. Grow some damn balls. When I read this thread, most of what I see is disguised "I wanna make SC2 look serious because someone was dismissive of it once and now I feel like I have to prove myself."
The only reason you have to drive 30 miles to get to a barcraft now is because the amount of organized barcrafts are relatively low still and because - surprise, smallish towns or cities won't have them due to an absense of SC2-watching people that aren't already going to a bigger event.
"But attracting more viewers will improve that situation, and this is only possible by pandering to the masses!"
False. Even if we change all the nicknames and stages/venues, then change the game to have middle eastern versus western instead of earthlings versus bugs versus aliens - most of the population simply will not spend their evening watching videogames. Hell, most of them will not even play games themselves.
Some gamers will. Our goal, for those who want to expand e-sports, is to change "some gamers" to "a lot of gamers". Not "everyone and their sister, who aren't actually into videogames at all". These are people who know what games are like, what it feels like to get that one crucial kill at the right time. They know first hand how unforgivingly difficult games can be. They know what a rush close games can offer, and have only to discover what the tournament scene can offer them. Wanna expand e-sports? Expand there. Your 50-year old uncle probably isn't interested.
Who are you to say that this is our goal? Do you speak for the leaders of the industries, for those who run Complexity or EG or the pundits that speak on Live on Three or State of the Game? I don't think so.
Now why is it that people find it so damn cool when an interview with Sean Plott shows up on Forbes or when ESPN considered putting MLG on television? Because it gets to the masses. Because more and more and more people will see it.
To expand the idea of "some gamers" to "a lot of gamers" can be reached through exposure to the masses. There are people from every corner of the world that have never blinked an eye at e-sports that may turn their heads and then say "Whoa, this is cool."
Let's not dilly-dally for just a small prize, but let's go for a jackpot. By continuing the idea that "most of the population will not spend their evening watching videogames" and living by that sentiment is absurd -- I highly doubt that people expected that some ridiculous game that involved throwing a ball into some baskets, or some corrupted form of rugby would be watched nationwide was ever expected.
But you know what? It happened because people were ambitious enough to bring it to the masses. And yes, that does mean having to turn it a bit mainstream as well.
Can you honestly say that the people who play basketball or football don't have the spirit of the sport in them? It's going to be the same with e-sports, even if it's brought to the masses, even if there have to be some sacrifices to make it look "legitimate." The spirit will always be there as long as there are players enjoying the game.
There is a reason why you have people on State of the Game saying that players need to learn how to talk or need to be able to relate to the fans. Why? Because the world is watching, and this industry is growing. And the world is just waiting to be thrown a bone in order to drag them into this wonderful thing we all enjoy.
Yes, we can forget what everyone else thinks and accept that things won't change. But that's not smart business sense. It never is, never was.
i just want one day someone named ASDFJLKSDHA or ilkepen15 becomes pro then we'll realize how dumb and unprofessional nicknames in competitions are lol
On November 26 2011 14:49 Malgrif wrote: i just want one day someone named ASDFJLKSDHA or ilkepen15 becomes pro then we'll realize how dumb and unprofessional nicknames in competitions are lol
More like how dumb examples you used to try and make your point.
Also, are people really saying that the XFL failed because of the nicknames?
On November 26 2011 14:42 Packawana wrote: See above
I find it ironic that you talk of good business sense, then suggest grand market takeover plans without any regard for target demographics at all. Defining a solid demographic is step one of a business plan. It's like a company making a product, then defining it's customer base as "EVERYONE!!!!:D ". Even a company as obviously unoffensive and ingrained in society like Coca Cola/Pepsi/whatever doesn't have the luxury of meeting that condition.
Yes, you could be overly optimistic like that. However, that also results in not being able to make any sensible decisions based on your customer base or even having an optimum decision at all anymore. (See: the multiplatform games debate that you probably are familiar with.) You are bound to produce a bland lowest-common-denominator product that many people will be mildly interested in, at the cost of putting off a lot of people that would otherwise be heavily involved with it and form a solid customer base for years to come. Is that worth it to you?
Where you and I disagree, I think, is in how big the group called gamers actually is. Look at today's youth. The majority of them grew up playing videogames. Should we tailor to them, try and convert them to e-sports, as I'm suggesting, or should we throw everything that could possibly be off-putting about e-sports out the window in an attempt to attract viewers that are about as far removed from gaming as possible? To get people who don't have any connection or click with games at all, to suddenly watch teens play a game they don't understand?
The reason football and other sports are as popular as they are is because people grew up with them, it was a gradual process, not a focused attempt to throw every bit of character the sport had out the window. The Super Bowl wasn't started on day 1 of the NFL's existence, or because they made people stop using nicknames. People played those games when they were young, their parents maybe took them to a game at times, they watched world cups together or listened to the casts on the radio. Physical sports were pretty much the main source of entertainment and idols for generations of kids. Guess what? Today's youth / teen has the same thing with games. They just need to be introduced to the idea of watching them as well. That is going to take some advertising and bringing the gospel of e-sports, making them not feel like a weirdo for doing it among their gamer peers.
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To give an example, I currently work as a programmer at a game development firm. Most if not all of my colleagues are gamers or have at least fundamentally accepted gaming as a valid pastime. However, 4 out of 5 will still give you a funny look when you mention going to a barcraft and watching tournaments there. They might soften up after some explanation, but will still find the idea a bit strange or at least something that they would not do of their own accord. These are gamers. Some of them play a whole lot. A couple clocked more than 40 hours in Skyrim in the first couple of days after release. Yet they are not accustomed to e-sports and find it an alien concept. If a group as heavily entangled with games as game developers is still as foreign to the e-sports scene as they are, how realistic do you think it is to try and market e-sports to non-gamers?
My suggestion (and I'll let slip the poor form of argument where you questioned my authority to take a position based on a figure of speech for now) is that we convert gamers to e-sports first instead of people that have nothing to do with it. There are a lot of gamers out there that have never heard of e-sports or find it a strange concept. Yet, these people are the most likely to be interested - they can relate. They know gamer culture, they don't see games as a time-waster for kids, they are often quite competitive, and they can play SC2 as well to get even more into the game - a connect that non-gamers will not be able to make. This is not "a small prize" as you say. This is a HUGE market. Videogames are, I believe, the most profitable entertainment industry bar none. It is also a realistic market, one that we can actually hope to capture without having to throw the entire scene on its rear end.
Will some things have to be changed? Perhaps. The player media training you speak of is a very unintrusive yet effective way to drop the image of socially awkward gamers, while also significantly increasing the quality of SC2 interviews. Players being penalized for BM is another (however, look at the amount of smack talking and sometimes blatant dirty play in NFL and NHL...). However, none of these things are changes that touch the core of e-sports. "Players playing for the sake of the game" is not e-sports. That + "the adoring fans watching" = e-sports. Alienating those fans will kill it.
You know, DarQraven has hit it right on the spot - The chances of us being able to convert non-gamers into eSport lovers is way too small. We're better off nurturing gamers into eSport lovers. A gamer would be able to relate to eSports in a better and faster way than most non-gamers will. That's the matter of fact. If we're going to spend too much time and effort trying to convert a part of the population which may be un-receptive to gaming in general, wouldn't it be more worth the effort to appeal to people who already 'get' gaming and try to get them to watch eSports?
If so, then the idea of a 'nickname' or 'game handle' as a way of addressing someone shouldn't be as far fetched isn't it? lol
This has nothing to do with BW. Nothing to do with StarCraft. Nothing to do with Korea. Nothing to do with anything other than gaming culture right from the start. Gamers had nicknames since forever and that's it.
Why have you signed up with a nick here instead of whatever you are called IRL?
On November 23 2011 08:03 Laurence wrote: I've been saying this to my SC buddies for ages. I don't see any use in Nicknames, we use real names when speaking about players.
I'm not sure who we is, but it definitely includes yourself so... you're saying that when Leenock won MLG Providence you were saying "Lee Dong Nyung just won MLG!" instead of "Leenock won MLG"? I really doubt that, but I don't know why you would lie just to make your point so... that seems very uncommon, and it is more difficult to remember Korean names as opposed to English sounding names.
It's not so difficult if you're from a korean family
On November 23 2011 08:03 Laurence wrote: I've been saying this to my SC buddies for ages. I don't see any use in Nicknames, we use real names when speaking about players.
I'm not sure who we is, but it definitely includes yourself so... you're saying that when Leenock won MLG Providence you were saying "Lee Dong Nyung just won MLG!" instead of "Leenock won MLG"? I really doubt that, but I don't know why you would lie just to make your point so... that seems very uncommon, and it is more difficult to remember Korean names as opposed to English sounding names.
It's not so difficult if you're from a korean family
Which is pretty much the minority (and should be, considering it's supposed to be a global game) of the SC2 audience, right?
My girlfriend and even my mom knows plenty of the big names by their IDs (Boxer, IdrA, HuK, Day[9], etc.), and they can connect those names to the names that appear on my monitor when I watch the pros play.
We don't refer to pro sports players by their nicknames because:
1. The vast majority of them don't have nicknames or alternate IDs
2. The names featured on their jerseys and uniforms are their regular names, not nicknames.
For any StarCraft pro-gamer who uses his real name as his gamer handle (like Jaedong from BW), we already do refer to him by his name.
In other words, by calling each pro-gamer by his gamer handle, we're calling him what he wants to be called... so this is really a non-issue.
On November 22 2011 12:17 Ryusei-R1 wrote: SC1 pros had handfuls of usernames each. Imagine calling Hiya all of his different usernames instead of just Magikarp or Hiya. Nobody would know who the fuck who was talking about.
Good thing this isn't BW and that we're limited to one username.
Usernames are much easier to remember than real names.
I'm sure someone brought this up already, I didn't go through all 23 pages to see if someone has, but I don't like how people are saying they are much easier to remember, to me thats a cop out to OP's point. I think that nicknames add Identity to the players. As soon as you take that away there's going to be a lot of Jonathan's and Chris's where as of right now there is only one Jinro and one HuK.
Idk, i like the nicknames . . .theyre more fun, they also allow for less confusion. Do you know how many Chris's and Johns and so on and so on. I dont know how diverse korean names are but I do know korea is smaller than the whole foreigner sports scene combined. It would just be too confusing with real names.
I understand why we keep going back to real sports when trying to improve e-sports, but somethings just dont compare. This is one of those instances. Athletes don't have gamer tags like e-sport players do, so there's never any debate of nickname > realname . . .
Nicknames will stay for awhile, and I'm glad of it =). gives more personality to the player and less confusion to us.
For BW it's a lot easier because Korean names keep to 3 characters. Imagine having to set up an overlay for someone who has an absurdly long first and last name. Something like Constantine Checkjowtov would be a nightmare for casters and for overlays. Instead the person uses a name like "IMSession" and everything is fine
I don't get people complaining about things like this. Look at the growth SC2 has seen over the past year. It's growth that has never before been seen by any esport. I don't understand why people would want to change what isn't broken. This is how our community is, and that's how it should stay.
I prefer Chris "HuK" Loranger or Greg "IdrA" Fields. It's a lot easier to remember someone by their handle rather than their real name while they're playing. When you're interviewing or talking to them you should call them by their first name.
i don't really think it's a big deal, but when youre casting a game and hit ctrl + n the players' nicknames pop up so it's probably a bit easier for people who don't know the game that well to know who they're talking about. i mean, if they kept saying "Greg Fields" and at the top it has IdrA and HuK, people who just started watching won't know who the hell Greg Fields is lol
Nicknames serve a number of purposes, I think the first and foremost of which is to make it really easy to remember a player, for example if you were to walk into a bar and a sc2 game happened to be on, if the players full names were up on the screen, and the casters were calling them by their full names, it would be very unlikely that you'd remember who the hell either of the players were a few hours later, let alone the next day. A nickname should be first and foremost easy to remember, secondly it should have some relation to who you are as a person, TLO's ID gives you a nice story of him and his brother playing 2v2 together, MarineKingPrime's is really a story of how he literally made a name for himself by revolutionizing the TvZ matchup.
Nicknames are shorter, and hence faster and easier to say or type. Also one needs to consider that players don't get popular until they do exceptionally well, and when they start out they need to chose a nickname to play the game.
MMA seems to have a lot of nicknames. Sure their full names (or half of it) are usually mentioned with the nickname, but not necessarily 100% of the time even. The use of nicknames naturally from completely non-electronic/anonymous roots in my opinion demonstrates that it has benefits or merit.
All this said, I don't really care whether they use one or the other — typically they use both wen they want to be complete, and just the nickname when they want to be brief; that makes perfect sense to me to continue with.
EPT
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