EPT[Utility] SC2 Scrapbook (Build Order Notebook V2) - Page 2
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legatus legionis
Netherlands559 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:40 Grumbels wrote: A question to you: have you ever thought about creating a more complete SC2 environment? I've always thought that to properly learn SC2, especially if you intend to be a bit more professional about it, it should be important to reflect on your games, to set goals for future practice sessions and such. In short, you need a professional environment to help you manage these aspects. And while it's possible to just write stuff down in notepad, it seems like there could be a bit of a market for managing software here. Sounds a lot like something you could do with a calendar, unless I'm underthinking it? On November 22 2011 02:45 legatus legionis wrote: I posted a ton of feedback in the thread of the previous version and was a bit sad when, but could understand, you said the utility did what you wanted to and would not get developed further. So I'm once again very excited to see this pop up because it truly has a ton of potential. Unless I can think of more cool shit to add, I want to add unit images, fix the overlay fps issues and maybe make a build database server. Then I'm done. For real this time  | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:54 Veritas. wrote: Sounds a lot like something you could do with a calendar, unless I'm underthinking it? Unless I can think of more cool shit to add, I want to add unit images, fix the overlay fps issues and maybe make a build database server. Then I'm done. For real this time No, like, if you're a professional chess player you'd have computer software that details an incredible amount of builds for you that you can quickly check through. I imagine you can also experiment with moves and such and have chess AIs to test your builds. Now for Starcraft 2, suppose you live in a teamhouse, you're being coached, you're a professional that plays the game every day. Wouldn't it be helpful then to have something similar in scope? A constantly updated list of build orders, with example replays, that you could also overlay on the screen if you wanted to. And this would be shared between the entire teamhouse, coaches could write comments next to it. Part of the program could also be a calendar, a notebook/diary, and so on. So kind of like your program mixed with liquipedia, except not public, but private. I don't know exactly how it should be, but I guess I can imagine it being useful for players or coaches. | ||
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:03 Grumbels wrote: No, like, if you're a professional chess player you'd have computer software that details an incredible amount of builds for you that you can quickly check through. I imagine you can also experiment with moves and such and have chess AIs to test your builds. Now for Starcraft 2, suppose you live in a teamhouse, you're being coached, you're a professional that plays the game every day. Wouldn't it be helpful then to have something similar in scope? A constantly updated list of build orders, with example replays, that you could also overlay on the screen if you wanted to. And this would be shared between the entire teamhouse, coaches could write comments next to it. Part of the program could also be a calendar, a notebook/diary, and so on. So kind of like your program mixed with liquipedia, except not public, but private. I don't know exactly how it should be, but I guess I can imagine it being useful for players or coaches. Seems incredibly niche. Cool idea I suppose, but these things already exist. Albeit in multiple separate programs, but still. | ||
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
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CptCutter
United Kingdom370 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:29 PiLoKo wrote: Yeah, keep yourself close minded not to know this is a great practice tool. Keep the good work, this one is great for all those low league players who can´t do a BO, this will help them a lot improve their game. wait what? you do understand that 'build orders' passed the 15 food supply for any race are not required until high diamond right? if you want to advance from the lower leagues all you need to work on is your macro and decision making. not when i should place something... im high masters and im only now starting to formulate build orders. good players are not good because of a build order, but because of their decision making and macro ability. the reason im against applications like this is because they can be used abusively. | ||
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Grenadieris
Latvia33 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:28 -swordguy wrote: In customs this is fine for refining/practicing builds but on ladder I would definitely consider this cheating. This is a real time strategy game and requires people to learn builds and counters if they want to achieve some kind of success. The person that remembers their build and the counters will have the advantage and should win. By adding the build order overlays you take out that important part of the game ( I know you still have to execute the build but remembering it is just as important) and that makes it easier for people to play. The game is meant to take a lot of practice in order to learn/optimize the builds and this program will help with that but using a 3rd party source just isn't acceptable in my opinion (and in the TOS). And you'd be dead wrong. It is not cheating. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
 Seems really neat, regardless! Good job on the effort put in. | ||
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Balgrog
United States1221 Posts
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Damwing
Switzerland19 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:21 Mitchlew wrote: Not sure how to get this working. Can have overlay on desktop but doesn't work when i open scii? You must be running Windowed Mode. | ||
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driftme
United States360 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:35 stormfoxSC wrote: I wonder if this would fall under violation of Blizzard's ToS for using third party programs. Maybe not though, since I suppose it's no different than people who follow Artosis' advice and have a little SC2 build order notebook by their computer. Seems really neat, regardless! Good job on the effort put in. First of all, the term you're looking for is Terms of Use, not Terms of Service. and no... it doesnt. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html | ||
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:48 Damwing wrote: sry dude appreciate your work but this is gay :/ i know many ppl just have it on paper but this takes away all the creativity from the players and theyll just stomp through a BO... Unless you're in the top 1% you've pretty much got no business trying to be creative. Even then, do you think pros just do it live 100% of the time? | ||
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MiyaviTeddy
Canada697 Posts
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Non0
United States100 Posts
Even with notes it is difficult to time out a build order to perfection, the only thing that gets you there is practice with it. If you have to read the build order as you're executing, you're not executing at the highest level. | ||
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Teraka
France1 Post
On November 22 2011 03:55 Veritas. wrote: Unless you're in the top 1% you've pretty much got no business trying to be creative. Even then, do you think pros just do it live 100% of the time? I don't think that's true. You're definitely not going to come up with a new brilliant build order that has its place in the current meta-game, but you can definitely throw off your opponent if you know a minimum what you're doing. I actually think you have a better chance of winning by trying a creative strategy with well-defined objectives rather than blindly following a BO and not knowing how to follow it up. | ||
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Glacierz
United States1244 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:23 CptCutter wrote: good players are not good because of a build order, but because of their decision making and macro ability. I disagree. There are clearly pro replays with extremely well timed builds designed to counter a particular strategy up to the nearest seconds. These builds have been practiced and optimized by the pro players who spent hundreds of hours perfecting it, and the quicker people adopt to them, the quicker sc2 evolves. Like you said, this is very beneficial for the pro-wannabes, don't see anything wrong with that. | ||
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buzzkill568
Canada56 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:15 rasers wrote: holy fuck... actually start learning the game and dont let some programs or the game itself do everything for u guys... now go make a bot that makes the build order for u so u can go afk the first 5minutes or what? ... rofl Shut up. Seriously. Obviously no one is going to use this during ladder games or there fucking retarded. These things have been around since bw and you can continue to respond like so but you just fill the community with more shit. Please do us all a favor and just stop it. Obviously for lower end players it helps to have a build order written down. Having it on screen is a stretch but who cares. You obviously are butt hurt about bronze - gold people getting better. :S | ||
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Bap181
France13 Posts
The BO itself in general isnt that usefull anyway, even assuming you could follow it perfectly, it doesnt mean you understand the BO or what your trying to achieve; its like doing a reactor helion opening and keeping them in your base. Understanding the BO is much more important than excecuting it perfectly, once you understand the BO, nailing it down is the next step. What am I supposed to do? Learn every single Build Order by heart before playing? Play twice the amount of games to learn it under the pretence that looking at a BO while playing is cheating? Doing the build and having something to help you along in the game is incredibly usefull. I doubt this gives any significant advantage in any league anyway, good people are good enough to not need it, and bad people will fudge something up anyway, having the BO right there can actually be quite the distraction. More-over I've seen pros alt-tab out to notepad files with BO's on them during ladder games. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On November 22 2011 04:18 buzzkill568 wrote: Shut up. Seriously. Obviously no one is going to use this during ladder games or there fucking retarded. These things have been around since bw and you can continue to respond like so but you just fill the community with more shit. Please do us all a favor and just stop it. Obviously for lower end players it helps to have a build order written down. Having it on screen is a stretch but who cares. You obviously are butt hurt about bronze - gold people getting better. :S if they need all that programs 2 get better i doubt they get better and i couldnt care less about if they get better or not. | ||
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