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This is fucking ridiculous on Slayers part. Do people not understand that this was not predetermined, and had no malicious intent behind it?
Yes it was wrong. Yes he shouldn't have done it
But hes a young adult who made a mistake in the spur of the moment in a less-than-prestigious tournament. Im sorry to reveal the bads of esports, but people throw games all the time if they want a desired outcome. I am sure Coca realizes now that what he did was wrong. Does he deserve a punishment? maybe. Does his entire career need to be ruined? absolutely not.
grow up slayers
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On November 17 2011 09:34 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 21:20 Pangpootata wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win. Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers.
And what boxer does isn't any worse? He exploited bugs to win games unlike coca who only does stuff to lose.
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Ya I think it is a real waste not to see Coca in Code S. He is so good and entertaining to watch!
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On November 17 2011 10:01 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:34 Dfgj wrote:On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 21:20 Pangpootata wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win. Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers. And what boxer does isn't any worse? He exploited bugs to win games unlike coca who only does stuff to lose.
Please list the bugs you claim boxer exploited.
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On November 17 2011 10:01 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:34 Dfgj wrote:On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 21:20 Pangpootata wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win. Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers. And what boxer does isn't any worse? He exploited bugs to win games unlike coca who only does stuff to lose.
i guess you never watch/played bw o.O (what i mean is bugs-that-arent-game-breaking are part of the game and i'm not claiming you've never actually watched bw)
for those saying this is going overboard, you guys need to man up.
he isn't fired or anything, he is being punished for something quite serious. the person at fault should take in responsibility and be punished, any way of trying to dodge it with some bs(code s, he didnt mean it, it was a mistake, etc. etc.) will be looked down upon. you guys are pretty much saying "he is in code S, let him continue to play, i'm sure he wont do it again" - this attitude does not work. many of you guys have no idea how much of a role "pride" and "honor" plays in korean(asian) culture.
he will come back a better man, and IF he frowns and complains and become depressed, he is weak.
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I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I'm too lazy to read through all the pages, so here it goes...
All the matches in GSL (code S, code A and Up-and-Downs) involving SlayersCoca will be given a win for his opponent. The empty spot at the end of this season will be filled by the offline code A qualifiers for the next season.
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On November 17 2011 10:11 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:01 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 09:34 Dfgj wrote:On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 21:20 Pangpootata wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win. Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers. And what boxer does isn't any worse? He exploited bugs to win games unlike coca who only does stuff to lose. i guess you never watch/played bw o.O (what i mean is bugs-that-arent-game-breaking are part of the game and i'm not claiming you've never actually watched bw) for those saying this is going overboard, you guys need to man up. he isn't fired or anything, he is being punished for something quite serious. the person at fault should take in responsibility and be punished, any way of trying to dodge it with some bs(code s, he didnt mean it, it was a mistake, etc. etc.) will be looked down upon. you guys are pretty much saying "he is in code S, let him continue to play, i'm sure he wont do it again" - this attitude does not work. many of you guys have no idea how "pride" and "honor" plays a role in korean(asian) culture. he will come back a better man.
the only 2 things i can think of that boxer did was alied mines and lift/land cc to crush interceptors. the alied mines situation was not against the rules the only reason it is illegal now is because in a one vs one type setting you cant ally your opponent and in order to commentate on games you have to use map settings to get an obs in. and lift/land was patched. a lot of what boxer did in broodwar was playing on imbalanced maps i mean come on you really think 815 is balanced?
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In my opinion, I don't think Coca should've done the surrender. Clearly he made a mistake, and he's willing to pay for it. He's still young, lets not totally dismantle the successful career he can still have.
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On November 17 2011 10:11 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:01 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 09:34 Dfgj wrote:On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 21:20 Pangpootata wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win. Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers. And what boxer does isn't any worse? He exploited bugs to win games unlike coca who only does stuff to lose. i guess you never watch/played bw o.O (what i mean is bugs-that-arent-game-breaking are part of the game and i'm not claiming you've never actually watched bw) for those saying this is going overboard, you guys need to man up. he isn't fired or anything, he is being punished for something quite serious. the person at fault should take in responsibility and be punished, any way of trying to dodge it with some bs(code s, he didnt mean it, it was a mistake, etc. etc.) will be looked down upon. you guys are pretty much saying "he is in code S, let him continue to play, i'm sure he wont do it again" - this attitude does not work. many of you guys have no idea how much of a role "pride" and "honor" plays in korean(asian) culture. he will come back a better man, and IF he frowns and complains and become depressed, he is weak.
The bugs gave him a considerable advantage. Besides, the point being discussed here is integrity/honour. Juxtaposing exploiting bugs to win at all costs to losing an inconsequential game , i think we can see that the former is much less sportsmanlike.
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I don't think this is match fixing at all. People do shit like this is tournaments ALL THE FUCKING TIME. They will PURPOSELY lose to some easy opponents just BECAUSE they don't want to end up in a certain bracket with a certain player. Ignore the chat, and this is all that was. Read people's minds, and you'll see this happens ALL THE TIME. .-.
In this case Coca wanted to help Byun out. Poor guy...
Match-fixing gets SERIOUS if its like some guy paid $1000 for player A to purposely lose to player B.
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The people that condone CoCa's and Byun's actions are shocking.
You are hurting eSports.
How can serious money come into eSports if neither the community nor the players take themselves seriously?
Can you imagine what Intel would do if they knew their money was going to team that throws matches?
Go ahead, call Intel and tell them right now and they'll drop SlayerS so fast your head will spin.
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On November 17 2011 10:28 wei2coolman wrote:
In my opinion, I don't think Coca should've done the surrender. Clearly he made a mistake, and he's willing to pay for it. He's still young, lets not totally dismantle the successful career he can still have.
boxer is over 30 and is still a successful starcraft pro
White Ra is over 30 and is a successful starcraft pro
Im sure you can list at least 10 more but the point is - just because he got kicked out of the house and cant enter tournaments for a period of time, it doesn't mean his career has ended. If hes really suppose to be great, he will use this time to train twice as hard. That's what pro players do, they keep practicing.
Boxer would never ban him from tournaments as a lifelong sentence, perhaps for 4 months at the most and id imagine that would be after he would be accepted back into the house. This way it ensures he wont do something as dumb as this and keeps the slayers name, and boxers held in high regard.
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On November 17 2011 09:59 Zeevo wrote:
This is fucking ridiculous on Slayers part. Do people not understand that this was not predetermined, and had no malicious intent behind it?
Yes it was wrong. Yes he shouldn't have done it
But hes a young adult who made a mistake in the spur of the moment in a less-than-prestigious tournament. Im sorry to reveal the bads of esports, but people throw games all the time if they want a desired outcome. I am sure Coca realizes now that what he did was wrong. Does he deserve a punishment? maybe. Does his entire career need to be ruined? absolutely not.
grow up slayers
How else are you going to demonstrate that doing stuff like this is completely unacceptable?
These players get paid because people want to watch their games. If they are showing the message of "it's okay to put on fake matches", people are going to get tired of it, and stop watching, and thus the rest of them won't have a career.
I know that's an over-the-top extreme example of a chain of events, but match-fixing is a huge issue right now and if somebody blatantly does it, just turning a blind eye and letting it happen is so beyond awful. Allowing the match fixing will cause the tournaments to lose credibility, and a lot of people will lose money over it.
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On November 17 2011 11:12 SidewinderSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:59 Zeevo wrote:
This is fucking ridiculous on Slayers part. Do people not understand that this was not predetermined, and had no malicious intent behind it?
Yes it was wrong. Yes he shouldn't have done it
But hes a young adult who made a mistake in the spur of the moment in a less-than-prestigious tournament. Im sorry to reveal the bads of esports, but people throw games all the time if they want a desired outcome. I am sure Coca realizes now that what he did was wrong. Does he deserve a punishment? maybe. Does his entire career need to be ruined? absolutely not.
grow up slayers How else are you going to demonstrate that doing stuff like this is completely unacceptable? These players get paid because people want to watch their games. If they are showing the message of "it's okay to put on fake matches", people are going to get tired of it, and stop watching, and thus the rest of them won't have a career. I know that's an over-the-top extreme example of a chain of events, but match-fixing is a huge issue right now and if somebody blatantly does it, just turning a blind eye and letting it happen is so beyond awful. Allowing the match fixing will cause the tournaments to lose credibility, and a lot of people will lose money over it.
First of all, this is not match fixing, as the results were not predetermined. Coca left spontaneously on a spur of the moment decision.
Many people have tried to purposely lose like stork vs white-ra, and nobody ever did anything to them. In fact, nobody really cared. Coca and byun are merely the victims of a witch-hunt.
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People really want eSports to be taken seriously yet defend this non sense, I could not agree more with what Artosis said in the GSL, what Coca did was leave a game he was about to win and could of won the series then he lost the next effectively losing the whole set, predetermined or not he technically threw the match so should pay for it. I couldn't give damn whether some dodgy players do this all the time I don't want to be sitting their watching a match then someone decides to drop out wasting everyone's time and turning eSports into a farce. He should be grateful he still has a chance of having a great career ahead of him in other sports he would of been booted out or worse (look up the recent Cricket scandal).
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Whenever money is involved from a corporate sponsor, players should know better than to fool around and do this kind of nonsense. As much as I like Coca as a player, his mistake is now a matter of public precedent for any sponsor having doubts about the maturity of SC2 and its players as a vehicle for eSports.
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How unfortunate  And I thought they knew better
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anyone brought up this happens in Formula 1 all the time?
Team mates with a bigger chance of winning the overall total gets the passby in a specific race.
I'd blame the lay up of the tournament actually, of course, if they're fighting for a Code A spot, what's even coca doing there in the first place? What's the point in having any Code S player in there? Of course they'll submit a loss if it means they can help out a team mate. They have nothing to gain from the tournament?
It's so painfully obvious I don't feel like the punishment should be that hard at all. Overreaction is the word I'd use for this whole situation.
Which means it's probably something else behind this.
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On November 17 2011 10:06 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:01 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 09:34 Dfgj wrote:On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote:On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 21:20 Pangpootata wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win. Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers. And what boxer does isn't any worse? He exploited bugs to win games unlike coca who only does stuff to lose. Please list the bugs you claim boxer exploited.
he probably meant allied mines or CC crushing interceptors
but it was banned after, so someone could see that as clever mechanic use
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I was rather shocked to hear this whilst watching GSL Code S yesterday. It is really sad though. Irresponsible from Coca's part as well, he should have known better.
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