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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:06 windsupernova wrote: Except that when he used them there was no rule against that. So your comparision makes no sense at all There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. | ||
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jellyjello
Korea (South)664 Posts
On November 17 2011 07:35 Canucklehead wrote: That's like saying stealing is stealing, plain and simple. Sure stealing is stealing, but there are various degrees of stealing such as grand larceny or stealing a pack of gum from a store. There are various degrees of match fixing too. What savior did is the highest example and should be punished to the max like he was. What coca and byun did falls on the petty scale of match fixing, but the punishment handed out was disproportionate to the degree of match fixing. All I can say is that it's a good thing SlayerS don't operate within the realm of your logical thinking. There are players in Korea that prides themselves as "professional" gamers and treat e-sports very seriously (eg, July staying up late for a NASL match that never happened). An official match is an offical match regardless of its magnitutude, location, or impact. This incident is not career ending for Coca or Byun. I just hope that they learn their lessons from this and become better professional players in the future. I will also say that a lot of current SC2 players in Korea never really experienced what it's like to become a real progamer because they've been buried deep in the practice squad in their BW career. The reason Nada made that short speech during the gruop stage was precisely because of this - these players lack professionalism. As Nada said, they need to take pride in what they do and do it seriously. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On November 17 2011 08:40 jellyjello wrote: All I can say is that it's a good thing SlayerS don't operate within the realm of your logical thinking. There are players in Korea that prides themselves as "professional" gamers and treat e-sports very seriously (eg, July staying up late for a NASL match that never happened). An official match is an offical match regardless of its magnitutude, location, or impact. This incident is not career ending for Coca or Byun. I just hope that they learn their lessons from this and become better professional players in the future. I will also say that a lot of current SC2 players in Korea never really experienced what it's like to become a real progamer because they've been buried deep in the practice squad in their BW career. The reason Nada made that short speech during the gruop stage was precisely because of this - these players lack professionalism. As Nada said, they need to take pride in what they do and do it seriously. Well I can tell this is a veiled bw elitism post since my bw elitist friend says the same thing. However, you're ignoring the fact that bw pros did this all the time at WCG and artosis said they even typed it in pre game lobby chat. My friend also told me that sharing prize money among teammates was super common in bw and was a respectful thing to do. Therefore he wasn't surprised by the nestea/mvp blizzcon match because he expected there was an agreement to share prize money since it was common and honourable to do in bw. While they wouldn't throw the match, they would treat it as a show match since they were sharing prize money anyways. I didn't follow any bw, so can any bw people talk about the prize sharing money b/w teammates that was common in bw in case I got what my friend said wrong? | ||
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:09 Lord_J wrote: Walkovers are common in the early rounds of these weeklies, so if the point was to "fix" the match, then CoCa could have just not played, Byun would have advanced, and nobody would have given it a second thought. With that in mind, I have to agree with those that find the reaction to this incident somewhat disproportionate. He was trying to practive against Terrans but's it kind of hard to gauge what Coca wanted out of this. He might have just wanted a third game with Byun. | ||
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Zvek
Faroe Islands102 Posts
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rblstr
Ireland398 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:11 McFeser wrote: He was trying to practive against Terrans but's it kind of hard to gauge what Coca wanted out of this. He might have just wanted a third game with Byun. Again, he clearly said in the in game chat that he wanted to go to a game 3 to get more practice and didn't mind forfeiting because his next opponent was protoss, who he didn't need to practice for. | ||
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Kazuki
Netherlands121 Posts
 Or Byun for that matter. | ||
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everyone
United States91 Posts
I love watching him play. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On November 17 2011 08:25 Pangpootata wrote: There is no rule saying you must play your best and cannot lose purposely. Justin and co were breaking the law for illegal betting. But what coca did was not against any law whatsoever. Which is why you'll note there are no legal penalties against him. There are, however, team penalties, because his actions were contrary to the spirit and image of Slayers. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
Losing his GSL spot is fucking stupid. Getting kicked off of A team is fucking stupid. Being made to leave the teamhouse is fucking stupid. This was a spur of the moment thing. Do you know how many fucking pro's do this? Like mentioned above there have been games where people 'tried to loose' on purpose, so as not to play Sen. This shit happens all the time, and prolly to a bigger degree than most of you imagine, yet none of them get in trouble. Coca does not deserve this. This is possibly life changing or life ruining to him. If i was Boxer, the 'EMPEROR' i would scold and apply the correct punishment, then show him how to be more like the 'EMPEROR'. Because of how fucking stupid Slayers overreacted, Prime now has to be just as harsh on Byun. This is a SAD SAD day for esports. Punishments need to fit the crime. Dont make an 'example' out of a person by fucking ruining a kids life. Some of you would say this isn't the case. But he is a progamer, he just lost his fucking job pretty much. I wish i could meet Boxer in person so i could tell him that he is now '-1' in my book for how he handled this. This is not the honorable or correct way to handle this situation. If fucking saddens me. Coca has the best zvp in the world. And now he just got turned into a nobody for how many months? edit: Im not saying that they dont need to be punished. Ban from ESV. Do something like other sports do, like sitting out for a extended time. In Basketball, if a person gets a MIP or something like that. They are made to sit out 5 games in a row (sometimes this is 2+ months). Ban the players from GSTL for 2 months or something. Dont ruin their fucking lives over a petty thing such as this, that happens all the time. The dude who 'matchfixed' against WhiteRa was praised a fucking hero. Koreans piss me off so much sometimes with the way they handle shit. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:42 ohampatu wrote: Alot of you people crack me up. Losing his GSL spot is fucking stupid. Getting kicked off of A team is fucking stupid. Being made to leave the teamhouse is fucking stupid. This was a spur of the moment thing. Do you know how many fucking pro's do this? Like mentioned above there have been games where people 'tried to loose' on purpose, so as not to play Sen. This shit happens all the time, and prolly to a bigger degree than most of you imagine, yet none of them get in trouble. Coca does not deserve this. This is possibly life changing or life ruining to him. If i was Boxer, the 'EMPEROR' i would scold and apply the correct punishment, then show him how to be more like the 'EMPEROR'. Because of how fucking stupid Slayers overreacted, Prime now has to be just as harsh on Byun. This is a SAD SAD day for esports. Punishments need to fit the crime. Dont make an 'example' out of a person by fucking ruining a kids life. Some of you would say this isn't the case. But he is a progamer, he just lost his fucking job pretty much. I wish i could meet Boxer in person so i could tell him that he is now '-1' in my book for how he handled this. This is not the honorable or correct way to handle this situation. If fucking saddens me. Coca has the best zvp in the world. And now he just got turned into a nobody for how many months? edit: Im not saying that they dont need to be punished. Ban from ESV. Do something like other sports do, like sitting out for a extended time. In Basketball, if a person gets a MIP or something like that. They are made to sit out 5 games in a row (sometimes this is 2+ months). Ban the players from GSTL for 2 months or something. Dont ruin their fucking lives over a petty thing such as this, that happens all the time. The dude who 'matchfixed' against WhiteRa was praised a fucking hero. Koreans piss me off so much sometimes with the way they handle shit. Have you seen how serious match fixing has been taken by other sports? If not check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_fixing I think if you are a professional progamer, you better act like one. BoxeR and Jessica did the right thing. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:47 Silidons wrote: His punishment is really really really dumb. He wanted to give a friend a win because Coca already had a Code S spot so the Code A spot wasn't up for grabs for him. If Coca won the tournament I bet everyone would have thought he was a dick because then there would be some other mean for getting the spot (maybe 2nd place, I don't know). He was actually being a true professional because he was being very courteous to his fellow player and did not want to be an asshole to him. What's more professional than feeling sorry for a fellow player and friend because you know if you win you gain nothing? Your spot on. But he didn't 'want to give a friend a win'. He wanted more practice against T was all. All he wanted was a game 3. He didn't want to 'lose on purpose'. He wanted a full set. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:42 ohampatu wrote: Alot of you people crack me up. Losing his GSL spot is fucking stupid. Getting kicked off of A team is fucking stupid. Being made to leave the teamhouse is fucking stupid. This was a spur of the moment thing. Do you know how many fucking pro's do this? Like mentioned above there have been games where people 'tried to loose' on purpose, so as not to play Sen. This shit happens all the time, and prolly to a bigger degree than most of you imagine, yet none of them get in trouble. Coca does not deserve this. This is possibly life changing or life ruining to him. If i was Boxer, the 'EMPEROR' i would scold and apply the correct punishment, then show him how to be more like the 'EMPEROR'. Because of how fucking stupid Slayers overreacted, Prime now has to be just as harsh on Byun. This is a SAD SAD day for esports. Punishments need to fit the crime. Dont make an 'example' out of a person by fucking ruining a kids life. Some of you would say this isn't the case. But he is a progamer, he just lost his fucking job pretty much. I wish i could meet Boxer in person so i could tell him that he is now '-1' in my book for how he handled this. This is not the honorable or correct way to handle this situation. If fucking saddens me. Coca has the best zvp in the world. And now he just got turned into a nobody for how many months? edit: Im not saying that they dont need to be punished. Ban from ESV. Do something like other sports do, like sitting out for a extended time. In Basketball, if a person gets a MIP or something like that. They are made to sit out 5 games in a row (sometimes this is 2+ months). Ban the players from GSTL for 2 months or something. Dont ruin their fucking lives over a petty thing such as this, that happens all the time. The dude who 'matchfixed' against WhiteRa was praised a fucking hero. Koreans piss me off so much sometimes with the way they handle shit. You do know he's not fired right? You do know that's he's only been sent away to self-reflect? You do know that he still has a career right? Honestly, he hasn't been fired from Slayers. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:49 eYeball wrote: Have you seen how serious match fixing has been taken by other sports? If not check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_fixing I think if you are a professional progamer, you better act like one. BoxeR and Jessica did the right thing. THIS IS NOT FUCKING MATCHFIXING. You didn't see anybody fucking DQ WhiteRa since his opponent lost 2 games in a row on purpose. He was praised a hero. All coca wanted was a game 3. Do you know how many fucking pro's throw a game to get to the next match because they dont like the map? ALOT OF THEM. It happens daily. These 2 just said something in chat so that makes them worse than every other person who does that? I mean shit, pro's actually plan around the maps they will be playing. I dont care what you thing really if you think Coca deserves this. Its pathetic. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:52 xXFireandIceXx wrote: You do know he's not fired right? You do know that's he's only been sent away to self-reflect? You do know that he still has a career right? Honestly, he hasn't been fired from Slayers. Kicked off A-Team. Forced to leave house. Forced to not play any tournaments indefintely. The fact that he didn't leave the team, which is what i woulda done if my managers were that stupid, shows he is honorable. . He has to start from the fucking bottom again, and can't even start till SlayerS says so. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:49 ohampatu wrote: Your spot on. But he didn't 'want to give a friend a win'. He wanted more practice against T was all. All he wanted was a game 3. He didn't want to 'lose on purpose'. He wanted a full set. Doesn't matter if 'a full set' is directly achieved by giving away the win in game 2. If letting his opponent win was incidental (ie: forfeit playing in a tournament due to scheduling, goal of freeing up practice time) it can be considered differently, but here his goal is directly brought about by losing on purpose, and thus he can be held accountable. | ||
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Dragonmaster26
Australia311 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:42 ohampatu wrote: Alot of you people crack me up. Losing his GSL spot is fucking stupid. Getting kicked off of A team is fucking stupid. Being made to leave the teamhouse is fucking stupid. This was a spur of the moment thing. Do you know how many fucking pro's do this? Like mentioned above there have been games where people 'tried to loose' on purpose, so as not to play Sen. This shit happens all the time, and prolly to a bigger degree than most of you imagine, yet none of them get in trouble. Coca does not deserve this. This is possibly life changing or life ruining to him. If i was Boxer, the 'EMPEROR' i would scold and apply the correct punishment, then show him how to be more like the 'EMPEROR'. Because of how fucking stupid Slayers overreacted, Prime now has to be just as harsh on Byun. This is a SAD SAD day for esports. Punishments need to fit the crime. Dont make an 'example' out of a person by fucking ruining a kids life. Some of you would say this isn't the case. But he is a progamer, he just lost his fucking job pretty much. I wish i could meet Boxer in person so i could tell him that he is now '-1' in my book for how he handled this. This is not the honorable or correct way to handle this situation. If fucking saddens me. Coca has the best zvp in the world. And now he just got turned into a nobody for how many months? edit: Im not saying that they dont need to be punished. Ban from ESV. Do something like other sports do, like sitting out for a extended time. In Basketball, if a person gets a MIP or something like that. They are made to sit out 5 games in a row (sometimes this is 2+ months). Ban the players from GSTL for 2 months or something. Dont ruin their fucking lives over a petty thing such as this, that happens all the time. The dude who 'matchfixed' against WhiteRa was praised a fucking hero. Koreans piss me off so much sometimes with the way they handle shit. Yeah I agree with you completely. Koreans need to learn to swallow their pride once in a while because too much pride leads to unprofessionalism. Sure CoCa is a Korean progamer but he's playing in an international tournament (GSL). Obviously Korea is going to get a mixed response to their actions and that ruins e-sports more than some unintentional 'match fixing'. I highly disagree with SlayerS and Gom's response to this. They really need to learn to swallow their pride and treat everyone fairly. Everyone makes mistakes like these but going overboard about it is what makes matters worse. | ||
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