EPTCoca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 90
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:26 Numy wrote: This isn't the way you set a tone. This is a way you start an escalation that might lead to disaster How exactly and what do you mean by an escalation that leads to disaster? Making it illegal to have the game won and then purposefully leave...? | ||
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rblstr
Ireland398 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:32 rblstr wrote: Again, clear misunderstanding of the situation. They are NOT teammates. This was NOT for a Code A spot. This was a korean weekly tournament run by ESV, same as the EU or NA weeklys on Playhem. Just for some perspective. They game was not "fixed", no player played a bad game to intentionally lose for any reason. If Coca had "thrown" the game by playing bad on purpose so his NON teammate Byun could advance and get this ficticious Code A spot then there would be BIG trouble. But this is nothing, this is Coca not taking a tournament seriously enough. THATS ALL. The game itself wasn't for a code A spot, but the winner of the weekly gets seeded into the tourny that does play for the code A spot. It's kinda like forfeiting in the first round of the open bracket in MLG. ya technically they're one step closer to winning the tournament, but with so many rounds to go, I couldn't care less. | ||
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rblstr
Ireland398 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:36 Tachion wrote: The game itself wasn't for a code A spot, but the winner of the weekly gets seeded into the tourny that does play for the code A spot. It's kinda like forfeiting in the first round of the open bracket in MLG. ya technically they're one step closer to winning the tournament, but with so many rounds to go, I couldn't care less. I know its a qualifier for a monthly which will eventually award code a, but thats not the reason for the forfeit, and that there would be no code a spot for the winner of this particular weekly. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:35 OneOther wrote: How exactly and what do you mean by an escalation that leads to disaster? Making it illegal to have the game won and then purposefully leave...? Doing something that seemingly puts a players career in danger because of such an event is far harsher a punishment than should be. They basically throwing him to the wolves so they can create an example. This isn't some fantasy world, this is real peoples lives at stakes and doing such just because of the past is ludicrous. It's even more sad when you look at general player behavior across the board and "match-fixing" that has been happening(Guys losing games on purpose etc.) yet all that is overlooked just because they want an example. It's pathetically hypocritical. So now it's not about the action it's about the press surrounding that action since that's really what's being at fault here. If the players were devious and actually intended to con the system making deals beforehand noone would have known and there would have been no punishment yet because they were not like that and clearly didn't realise what was happening they are harshly punished. The moral of the story here is the good guys get cut while the bad guys keep going. It's got nothing to do with match fixing. Just don't do something the public won't like and you sorted, no matter how bad it is in reality. That's the precedent that's being set. How that is seen as good is beyond me. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:36 rblstr wrote: Honestly i think ESV could have handled this by awarding Coca the win in game 2 via refs decision (Much like in a disconnect or something) and just not count the last game... By the time the issue was found the tournament had already been completed. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:50 Diamond wrote: OK since people keep freaking out over walkovers. The coaches sign up the players, not the players (aside for Taeja). Some coaches are better then others at making sure to tell their players they signed them up. For example you will notice an absurd walkover rate for ST guys. By the time the issue was found the tournament had already been completed. thanks for clarifying. but IMHO this is contradicting the korean public opinion. how can a match in the ro32 of a tournament that even the coaches don't take serious cause so much trouble? is it really that he should have just forfeited before the match and not play at all? he said in the beginnig of the match he will forfeit which is basically the same. just that there were actually games played (which were not bad at all according to the viewers). | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:00 fleeze wrote: thanks for clarifying. but IMHO this is contradicting the korean public opinion. how can a match in the ro32 of a tournament that even the coaches don't take serious cause so much trouble? is it really that he should have just forfeited before the match and not play at all? he said in the beginnig of the match he will forfeit which is basically the same. just that there were actually games played (which were not bad at all according to the viewers). Who keeps saying they aren't taking this serious? Players take this serious. Some coaches just suck at their jobs. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:02 Diamond wrote: Who keeps saying they aren't taking this serious? Players take this serious. Some coaches just suck at their jobs. Oh, i see. Just couldn't imagine they are THAT bad  the matches of the weeklys i've seen have all been pretty good. and as i said even the byun/coca match in question was taken serious by both players (except they agreed on the result in the beginning). | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:07 fleeze wrote: Oh, i see. Just couldn't imagine they are THAT bad the matches of the weeklys i've seen have all been pretty good. and as i said even the byun/coca match in question was taken serious by both players. The problem is it looks like mass incompetence but when you realize 8 walkovers might be associated (just random # here) with one message failing to be relayed it's not THAT bad. But if you go back and look at the history of walkovers you will see a VERY clear pattern of the coaches that remember and the coaches that forget. | ||
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Steglich
Denmark282 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7997 Posts
in the Korean Weekly 11 the slayers coach apparently signed up sleep who didn't even play the first round! his opponent got a walkover, this is clearly not the behaviour one should expect from a professional sc2 team judging from coca's case an appropriate punishment should be the exclusion of all slayers players from the korean weekly until 2013 as well as their immediate withdrawal from all gsl tournaments right? User was warned for this post | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:35 OneOther wrote: Why should this be illegal? The player should be free to lose if he so wishes. What's next, punish people for nuking themselves as bm?How exactly and what do you mean by an escalation that leads to disaster? Making it illegal to have the game won and then purposefully leave...? In this regard I'd rather let the player have full freedom. If he wishes to play with 1 game handicap in an official series, because he sees that as better challenge for his self-development goals, he should be allowed to just leave a game. On November 17 2011 04:38 rblstr wrote: The tournament at the time of playing does not guarantee Code A, even for the Monthly finals. Check Mr. Chae's statement, they are currently negotiating, because of the new GSL format. The last Monthly provided Code A, but this one did not have any GSL slot guaranteed at the time of playing this Weekly.I know its a qualifier for a monthly which will eventually award code a, but thats not the reason for the forfeit, and that there would be no code a spot for the winner of this particular weekly. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580¤tpage=4#76 Mr. Chae: "However, even if it is a tournament that does not award GSL Code A seeds, the use of profanities in a broadcast with many viewers and a blatant disregard for competition cannot be ignored by the GSL." (note by me: Coca did not use any profanities. And the profanities by Byun weren't really offensive towards Coca, because the whole conversation was in good spirit) Please stop misinforming. Please someone, please, add this to the OP. | ||
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cold-
Canada209 Posts
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On November 17 2011 06:08 cold- wrote: what a joke. they should have warned him, not kick him out of code s. also hilarious how they say he withdrew when he obviously was forced to do so. abusive and primitive really. and from where have you got all these information? | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On November 17 2011 06:21 Hardigan wrote: Probably from here: and from where have you got all these information? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580¤tpage=7#134 When your team approaches you in the way SlayerS did (before even properly investigating the case - there was no time, they acted immediately), if you are someone as loyal and honor-driven as Coca, of course you will comply, even if what you did was not as it's been interpreted. He didn't really have option, because they also forbid him to play any official matches. He could leave the team, but most of all he's not that type of person, he has too much respect for his team and elders there; but even if he was the type to leave, there wouldn't be very good prospect for him finding a new team etc. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On November 17 2011 06:35 figq wrote: Probably from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580¤tpage=7#134 When your team approaches you in the way SlayerS did (before even properly investigating the case - there was no time, they acted immediately), if you are someone as loyal and honor-driven as Coca, of course you will comply, even if what you did was not as it's been interpreted. He didn't really have option, because they also forbid him to play any official matches. He could leave the team, but most of all he's not that type of person, he has too much respect for his team and elders there; but even if he was the type to leave, there wouldn't be very good prospect for him finding a new team etc. I already read that. I know that Coca gave up the Code S spot. my question is, where does it stand, that Coca didn't want to leave Code S but was forced? And why does everybody think all the Koreans are so "honorable" and what not? And what's with "he is not the type of person"? I see that all over TL used for many players and Teams. It looks more like subconscious wishful thinking what a player should do from a TL-user standpoint. PS: I don't particular mean you figq. It's just an observation i found everywhere here on TL | ||
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jellyjello
Korea (South)664 Posts
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Tinasaur
United States1 Post
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