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On November 16 2011 21:11 KingPaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. There are so many no shows in the first rounds of the ESVs. Isn't that "fucking around with the integrity" as well? Just look at all the smallish weekly online tournaments. If anybody, who "fucked around with the integrity" of them (like playing in more than one at the same time and therefore delaying the whole tournament, leaving the tournament in the middle of it without a reason, disrespecting the tournament by not respecting the players or even insult them on air etc), was punished in this way, a big percentage of all the players were banned. I mean a punishment is okay, but just randomly starting this at one incident with such a harsh one seems strange to me. I guess all the other players, who don't show up to the next ESV although they agreed to, will not be punished at all. So I don't really see the argument.
Except that a forfeit is an actual valid result for any set.
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On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team.
Haha. The founder of Coca's team is someone who makes use of loopholes in rules and game exploits to win (refer to allied mines incident). Coca exploiting an unwritten rule to lose is actually less bad than doing so to win.
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On November 16 2011 21:14 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 21:11 KingPaddy wrote:On November 16 2011 21:00 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 20:45 gulati wrote:
This is the Korean Weekly. This isn't an MLG or IPL, sorry to say. The reaction from people trying to white-knight eSports and the internet is wildly perplexing. Calm the fuck down, they are young kids who are jokingly talking in-game. So what if he said lets do another game. Isn't there a reason why the community recognizes "Major Tournaments" versus "Online Tournaments"?
People don't understand the severity of certain issues. Stephano's contract situation is a severe issue, since it's a precedent for eSports and strengthening it. Protecting this, aka, saying Coca was wrong, is hurting eSports, because you are essentially removing the human element from the game, and causing robotic interference. At this rate, just fucking ban chat in general.
Disgraceful by all parties who concur that Coca acted in a poor fashion. He did nothing to cause me to believe he is not a professional; maybe if he acted like this at a "major lan event", then I would concur. However, as it stands, anybody who dissents seriously needs to re-think what example this is setting, because I can't see anything positive coming from having KeSPA 2.0 essentially. So what's the lower limit on an event? What does it depend on? The prizepool and the viewership? Essentially if it's low enough you can fuck around with its integrity, right? Guess which team is Coca on? Guess what does the founder actually believe in? It's not at all hard to see why Korean netizens want to nail the two of them to a cross already. This is the best possible outcome for Coca, the alternative being him leaving Slayers and joining a foreigner team. There are so many no shows in the first rounds of the ESVs. Isn't that "fucking around with the integrity" as well? Just look at all the smallish weekly online tournaments. If anybody, who "fucked around with the integrity" of them (like playing in more than one at the same time and therefore delaying the whole tournament, leaving the tournament in the middle of it without a reason, disrespecting the tournament by not respecting the players or even insult them on air etc), was punished in this way, a big percentage of all the players were banned. I mean a punishment is okay, but just randomly starting this at one incident with such a harsh one seems strange to me. I guess all the other players, who don't show up to the next ESV although they agreed to, will not be punished at all. So I don't really see the argument. Except that a forfeit is an actual valid result for any set.
But isn't it more annoying for anyone and a show of no respect to the tournament, when each week like 10 people just don't show up although they registered / accepted the invitation or whatever (I don't know the process, in which the players are chosen)? I mean in this case, two players decided (in a incredibly stupid way) to play a third game, so what? Both played all the games the best they could (except that one match had a wrong result), so we had 3 "real" games. It's stupid, but not such a big deal imo.
If there was a Code A spot and the accusations, which are in the OP, were true, then I'd agree with the punishment.
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His career is pretty much dead, he is hated by almost everyfan, he got humiliated and this will affect his performances a lot.
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A real shame to see this happen, a young aspiring Zerg making a terribly stupid decision. Will Byun be reprimanded as well?
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imagine you would see a game between mc and mvp in an online tourney, semi final.
they play a straight up game, mvp is winning, but then he says "ok nice games, but i really need to sleep, please continue for me mc" and then he leaves giving mc the win.
would this really bother anyone ?
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It is blatantly clear to me that the vast majority of people saying what a terrible thing coca did have no fucking clue what actually went on here. Coca threw the game, not so Byun would advance, not for money, not for anything other than an extra practice game vs T in tournament setting. Koreans are weird, very passionate about lynching people over nothing. This has been blown totally out of proportion.
There was no match fixing here, I think the punishment for Coca was a kneejerk reaction to the Korean community backlash. Totally ridiculous and I strongly think SlayerS should re-consider their punishment.
Stop spreading false information, Coca wanted to practice more T games, not throw the match so Byun could advance. I agree that doing what he did was wrong, he should have just won the match and asked Byun for another match, or forfeited and played the games with Byun anyway, or anything other than submitting the replays to ESV, which was a mistake. It reflects his team in a bad light and is unprofessional. SlayerS should punish on that ground, but not by kicking him out of A Team.
Many of you should re-read the whole story and correct your opinions.
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On November 16 2011 21:59 rblstr wrote:
It is blatantly clear to me that the vast majority of people saying what a terrible thing coca did have no fucking clue what actually went on here. Coca threw the game, not so Byun would advance, not for money, not for anything other than an extra practice game vs T in tournament setting. Koreans are weird, very passionate about lynching people over nothing. This has been blown totally out of proportion.
There was no match fixing here, I think the punishment for Coca was a kneejerk reaction to the Korean community backlash. Totally ridiculous and I strongly think SlayerS should re-consider their punishment.
Stop spreading false information, Coca wanted to practice more T games, not throw the match so Byun could advance. I agree that doing what he did was wrong, he should have just won the match and asked Byun for another match, or forfeited and played the games with Byun anyway, or anything other than submitting the replays to ESV, which was a mistake. It reflects his team in a bad light and is unprofessional. SlayerS should punish on that ground, but not by kicking him out of A Team.
Many of you should re-read the whole story and correct your opinions.
He has a team with some of the best Terrans in the world. Why would he need to practice against a Terran of a lower caliber compared to the Slayers Terrans?
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On November 16 2011 22:02 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 21:59 rblstr wrote:
It is blatantly clear to me that the vast majority of people saying what a terrible thing coca did have no fucking clue what actually went on here. Coca threw the game, not so Byun would advance, not for money, not for anything other than an extra practice game vs T in tournament setting. Koreans are weird, very passionate about lynching people over nothing. This has been blown totally out of proportion.
There was no match fixing here, I think the punishment for Coca was a kneejerk reaction to the Korean community backlash. Totally ridiculous and I strongly think SlayerS should re-consider their punishment.
Stop spreading false information, Coca wanted to practice more T games, not throw the match so Byun could advance. I agree that doing what he did was wrong, he should have just won the match and asked Byun for another match, or forfeited and played the games with Byun anyway, or anything other than submitting the replays to ESV, which was a mistake. It reflects his team in a bad light and is unprofessional. SlayerS should punish on that ground, but not by kicking him out of A Team.
Many of you should re-read the whole story and correct your opinions. He has a team with some of the best Terrans in the world. Why would he need to practice against a Terran of a lower caliber compared to the Slayers Terrans?
Further proving my point. Did you read the chat logs of the game? He said to Byun that all Terrans from the team house were at a lan event and he had nobody to practice with. So he played the ESV weekly to play Terrans. He states that his next opponent would be Protoss so he didnt mind forfeiting the game. So he leaves game 2 to get an extra practice game vs Byun
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What?? Coca you bastard
User was warned for this post
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On November 16 2011 21:03 iamlafore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 20:50 KingPaddy wrote:On November 16 2011 20:46 cari-kira wrote:
the korean weekly should use a mlg-like system:
if the winner already has a code a/s spot, the spot goes to the 2nd (and so on)
this way this would never had happened. But there is no Code A spot to win from ESV this month. The only reason this happened for was, that they wanted to play a third game. Which is of cause stupid, espacially how they did it, but it's not malicious. I think all these outraged people should keep this in mind. Have you never gotten owned by a friend 2-0 and then you just suddenly say "ok make it best of 5/7" or something like that - just 2 friends in a healthy contest, one friend trying to give the other one another shot. I think they should be punished within the realm of the tournament where it happened but punishing Coca's code S status is so fcking far overboard its borderline nazi.
On November 16 2011 20:12 anrimayu wrote:Majority saying they deserve life time ban, with only a handful saying the current punishment is enough. I haven't seen any response saying this was too much. There's so much ugly hatred and threats toward the two involved that it doesn't deserve any translation.
Culture clash. But I also find the punishment justified. And nowadays you can get back Code S status in 1 month without too much trouble. Get through Code B --> Get to R024 Code A -->Win/Lose --> Code S/U&D
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On November 16 2011 22:06 rblstr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 22:02 Adila wrote:On November 16 2011 21:59 rblstr wrote:
It is blatantly clear to me that the vast majority of people saying what a terrible thing coca did have no fucking clue what actually went on here. Coca threw the game, not so Byun would advance, not for money, not for anything other than an extra practice game vs T in tournament setting. Koreans are weird, very passionate about lynching people over nothing. This has been blown totally out of proportion.
There was no match fixing here, I think the punishment for Coca was a kneejerk reaction to the Korean community backlash. Totally ridiculous and I strongly think SlayerS should re-consider their punishment.
Stop spreading false information, Coca wanted to practice more T games, not throw the match so Byun could advance. I agree that doing what he did was wrong, he should have just won the match and asked Byun for another match, or forfeited and played the games with Byun anyway, or anything other than submitting the replays to ESV, which was a mistake. It reflects his team in a bad light and is unprofessional. SlayerS should punish on that ground, but not by kicking him out of A Team.
Many of you should re-read the whole story and correct your opinions. He has a team with some of the best Terrans in the world. Why would he need to practice against a Terran of a lower caliber compared to the Slayers Terrans? Further proving my point. Did you read the chat logs of the game? He said to Byun that all Terrans from the team house were at a lan event and he had nobody to practice with. So he played the ESV weekly to play Terrans. He states that his next opponent would be Protoss so he didnt mind forfeiting the game. So he leaves game 2 to get an extra practice game vs Byun
Then he can ask for a custom game after the tournament matches. Is Coca banned from playing people outside of the Slayers team or something prior to the tournament? Was Byun?
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kinda like what happen when the guy forfeited his rounds to help out white-ra. i guess its only fucked up when its not someone you cheer for huh? as far as gsl and match fixing and altering, it happens all the time, i.e for huk and only huk. remember the GLS finals for IM_Mvp vs oGsTOP? Where MVP was smashing on TOP and then one game just played horrible for no reason at all? if you understand korean, MVP says he was gonna kill him 4-0. Someone in the background yells out "NO you can't do that." It wasn't just anyones voice.
THIS, def is not match fixing. Look up what it means, the outcome of this match was not predetermined. WWE is called fixed matches, and thus fake. Coca did nothing wrong and broke no rules actually. All he did was forfeit. Telling someone to leave, and then them leaving, is not cheating, nor is it even close to match fixing in any sense of the definition. Even though, his actions were completely ignorant he did not cheat.
GOMTV rescheduling tournament matches for one player, on numerous occasions, is.
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On November 16 2011 22:18 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 22:06 rblstr wrote:On November 16 2011 22:02 Adila wrote:On November 16 2011 21:59 rblstr wrote:
It is blatantly clear to me that the vast majority of people saying what a terrible thing coca did have no fucking clue what actually went on here. Coca threw the game, not so Byun would advance, not for money, not for anything other than an extra practice game vs T in tournament setting. Koreans are weird, very passionate about lynching people over nothing. This has been blown totally out of proportion.
There was no match fixing here, I think the punishment for Coca was a kneejerk reaction to the Korean community backlash. Totally ridiculous and I strongly think SlayerS should re-consider their punishment.
Stop spreading false information, Coca wanted to practice more T games, not throw the match so Byun could advance. I agree that doing what he did was wrong, he should have just won the match and asked Byun for another match, or forfeited and played the games with Byun anyway, or anything other than submitting the replays to ESV, which was a mistake. It reflects his team in a bad light and is unprofessional. SlayerS should punish on that ground, but not by kicking him out of A Team.
Many of you should re-read the whole story and correct your opinions. He has a team with some of the best Terrans in the world. Why would he need to practice against a Terran of a lower caliber compared to the Slayers Terrans? Further proving my point. Did you read the chat logs of the game? He said to Byun that all Terrans from the team house were at a lan event and he had nobody to practice with. So he played the ESV weekly to play Terrans. He states that his next opponent would be Protoss so he didnt mind forfeiting the game. So he leaves game 2 to get an extra practice game vs Byun Then he can ask for a custom game after the tournament matches. Is Coca banned from playing people outside of the Slayers team or something prior to the tournament? Was Byun?
No, like I said, what he did was stupid, wrong, and harmed his team name, and theres a million other ways he could have done it. But it wasn't "match fixing", to help himself or to help Byun. He just wanted to play some tournament games vs Terran and didn't mind forfeiting. Yes he should be punished for harming his teams and ESV's reputation, but definitely not as harsh as he has been. I think its crazy and an overreaction.
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stop crying people. there have been SO MANY cases where players did this. he got punished, he will learn and the next time they will message each other on skype or whatever. no problem. now stop hating on this kid like he killed someone .. jesus
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how dumb of them to get caught like this
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I wonder why helping an opponent is perfectly fine and expected in some cases in most "team based solo sports" but not in SC2?
Stuff like this happens all the time and is unavoidable. I feel SC2 might have unrealistic expectations on the players and the idea of competition and sportsmanship.
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On November 16 2011 22:51 Longshank wrote:
I wonder why helping an opponent is perfectly fine and expected in some cases in most "team based solo sports" but not in SC2?
Stuff like this happens all the time and is unavoidable. I feel SC2 might have unrealistic expectations on the players and the idea of competition and sportsmanship.
i think sc2 has spoiled my view on a lot of things like this
like in formula 1 it's not unusual that teammates give wins to each other in certain situations
a little offtopic, but also the level of commentary in professional sports like football is INCREDIBLY low compared to what we get and expect from sc2 commentators
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I don't get why people are comparing sc2 with F1.
F1 is a team sport with many engineers and other support staff and the driver is the person that represents the team. Not to mention there's also the team trophy (constructors'). Although SC2 has teams that help you practise and stuff, ultimately it's an individual sports where your own efforts matter the most.
One more thing, match-fixing is always speculation unless it's proven true no matter how obvious it may seem. CoCa and Byun, by blatantly doing such shit on a tournament that is streamed live is showing no respect both for the sport, the tournament and the fans. They're basically mocking the whole SC2 scene although they probably doesn't realise it at the point of time.
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On November 16 2011 23:01 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 22:51 Longshank wrote:
I wonder why helping an opponent is perfectly fine and expected in some cases in most "team based solo sports" but not in SC2?
Stuff like this happens all the time and is unavoidable. I feel SC2 might have unrealistic expectations on the players and the idea of competition and sportsmanship. i think sc2 has spoiled my view on a lot of things like this like in formula 1 it's not unusual that teammates give wins to each other in certain situations a little offtopic, but also the level of commentary in professional sports like football is INCREDIBLY low compared to what we get and expect from sc2 commentators
It's even more pronounced in road cycling. It's not uncommong for riders to help eachother in a break-away, even if on opposing teams, due to either old friendship countrymen or something else.
What they should have done obviously was play the games, then report the result as a walk-over and not send the replays. Instead they decided to help the tournament by submitting the replays so they actually had something to broadcast (10 out of the 16 round1 matches were walkover since the majority of the players don't take the tournie seriously) and in turn they get crucified. They wanted to show some good matches for the people watching and CoCa wanted some practise for his upcomming Sode S matches.
This is whole deal is so far out of proportion it would almost be funny if not for the fact a very talented young player's name his been tarnished and his carreer most likely ruined. Even if Slayers allow him to play again some time next year it's a very very steep uphill battle back
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EPT
