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While there is very little precedent for something like this, my gut tells me that the punishment suits the crime, especially considering neither of these players have a history of match fixing or contract breaking.
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I honestly dont see what the big deal is. Two kids, two friends, small tourney, and a fixed match. It doesn't deserve this kind of punishment
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On November 16 2011 05:21 S_SienZ wrote:
I don't understand how people are actually defending CoCa's actions using the "he wanted some Terran practice" argument. He could have easily knocked Byun out and played customs with him to do it without sacrificing the integrity and legitimacy of the tournament.
thats the dumbest argument people are making. He's on Slayers, while in the team house he can blindly throw an empty can and chances are it will land on a terran player he can practice with
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:22 redeux wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong but last year didn't we have ladder match fixing by someone on Slayers? I've been out of the scene for a while so my memory is rusty.
I think you're talking about choya? He played rock paper scissors on ladder instead of actually playing.
Also why did my absolute 2 favorite players do that, the only thing worse for me is mind and baby throwing matches for each other.
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Well, that's just how things roll in Korea. You make a major screw up, then you are supposed to pay for that to save your face, best if you do it voluntarily. Flying out of Code S is bad, but it's not the end of the world if he is allowed to say in Code A. A shame that it's not like that everywhere.
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it's some little Weekly tournament for 100e max prize pool where they play for practice for big tournaments and since they are friends they decide to make it more interesting and play 3rd game. As u can see CoCa dominate Byun so he was confident in hes skills that he will be able do it once again. And why not its practice game for them after all.
And iv notice some ppl are to harsh on them, and try to set an example for future proGamers but mine opinion its they dont deserve this one... I mean so hard punishment.
This year in Euro Basketball championship Greece try to pay german referee to fix game and referee declained and Greece national selection was punish with same amount of money as they offer to referee, what is hilarious 5k e.
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Wait, they seariously did it that obvious ?LOL
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On November 16 2011 05:13 ImmortalTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:06 TylerThaCreator wrote:On November 16 2011 05:02 ImmortalTofu wrote:On November 16 2011 04:49 AndyVN wrote:On November 16 2011 04:43 ImmortalTofu wrote:
Well... I think its more like he wanted some more practice v. Terran (That's what the dialogue a bit later in the thread says), and because he didn't have any good practice partners at the time online or w.e, and his next round's match was a Protoss (of which he has none of in his GSL group), he wanted to play v. Byun again, and so agreed to GG. Is that really matchfixing? Yes it's throwing a game, but it was for practice, and not for money. Practice or not, this is for a prize tournament. Of course I agree, but I feel that pulling him out of code S for wanting more practice in a stressful setting with something on the line is quite an overreaction, especially when its pretty clear this whole "match-fixing" thing is really just him giving Byun a game for a friend and for practice, not because he got any money off of it, or they had a deal prior. It's still a tournament no matter how you try to frame it. ...I think people are not realizing my point. I understand that its a tournament game, and that he should be warned to not do something so reckless again, but this was not previously arranged like the horrific incident in BW, and therefore should not be treated with the same level of intensity? Banned from Code S? Kicked to the B team and sent home? I fully understand the ban from the weekly tournament, but this was fairly innocent in the scheme of things, and I think the shame of it being so widely publicized should along with the weekly ban should be enough to teach him not to do these kinds of things. We're being way too judgemental about a player who made a rash decision to practice better for his code S group once. If he shows hints of such behavior again, let him have it, but for now, I think we're way overreacting...
exactly my point of view
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I'm glad this is being addressed quickly and thoroughly, what they did is forgivable but their actions still need to be punished. Thanks for the quick response to the matter guys. Last thing we need is to have people getting fixed spots into Code A and have a repeat of something close to a savior incident from BW.
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I have a feeling these two would've never pulled this crap in the GSL, which irks me because it's a sign of disrespect to small, foreign tournaments trying to make a name for themselves. Anyway the punishment seems reasonable, and I hope it serves as a good example for the next generation of gamers.
I'm sure we'll see them back in Code S early 2012. They're both still young and quite talented.
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Not really sure if I find Coca at fault here. He was in a tournament where winning wouldn't really give him a real prize, so why would he have an incentive to win?
Yeah of course it was immoral, but does anyone here really think this stuff doesn't happen? It wasn't match-fixing in the Savior sense.
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On November 16 2011 05:40 hmunkey wrote:
Not really sure if I find Coca at fault here. He was in a tournament where winning wouldn't really give him a real prize, so why would he have an incentive to win?
He could have just not signed up then.
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On November 16 2011 05:12 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:59 IPA wrote:On November 16 2011 04:57 Slangen wrote:
This is just sick.. Cant belive CoCa went for that! He was one of my biggest up and comers! Im not a CoCa fanboy anymore. Boxer will be ashamed of you :/ He's a kid, relax. He made a mistake. All the holier-than-thous coming out of the woodwork on TL, every time. ...Holier-than-thou? You realize that people say that when it comes down to normative things? Of course I'm "holier" than CoCa after he's shown to be pretty much objectively reprehensible. The whole holier-than-thou thing you pulled applies to people who come up with subjective "ideas" and present them as fact and such. .
Adj. 1. holier-than-thou - excessively or hypocritically pious
It is used when people express sanctimonious attitudes while turning a blind eye to their own myriad faults and mistakes. I used it correctly. This topic has been filled with holier-than-thous.
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On November 16 2011 05:41 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:40 hmunkey wrote:
Not really sure if I find Coca at fault here. He was in a tournament where winning wouldn't really give him a real prize, so why would he have an incentive to win? He could have just not signed up then.
Oh yeah of course, but I don't think the punishment has been proportionate to the "crime."
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On November 16 2011 05:33 LatsyrC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:13 ImmortalTofu wrote:On November 16 2011 05:06 TylerThaCreator wrote:On November 16 2011 05:02 ImmortalTofu wrote:On November 16 2011 04:49 AndyVN wrote:On November 16 2011 04:43 ImmortalTofu wrote:
Well... I think its more like he wanted some more practice v. Terran (That's what the dialogue a bit later in the thread says), and because he didn't have any good practice partners at the time online or w.e, and his next round's match was a Protoss (of which he has none of in his GSL group), he wanted to play v. Byun again, and so agreed to GG. Is that really matchfixing? Yes it's throwing a game, but it was for practice, and not for money. Practice or not, this is for a prize tournament. Of course I agree, but I feel that pulling him out of code S for wanting more practice in a stressful setting with something on the line is quite an overreaction, especially when its pretty clear this whole "match-fixing" thing is really just him giving Byun a game for a friend and for practice, not because he got any money off of it, or they had a deal prior. It's still a tournament no matter how you try to frame it. ...I think people are not realizing my point. I understand that its a tournament game, and that he should be warned to not do something so reckless again, but this was not previously arranged like the horrific incident in BW, and therefore should not be treated with the same level of intensity? Banned from Code S? Kicked to the B team and sent home? I fully understand the ban from the weekly tournament, but this was fairly innocent in the scheme of things, and I think the shame of it being so widely publicized should along with the weekly ban should be enough to teach him not to do these kinds of things. We're being way too judgemental about a player who made a rash decision to practice better for his code S group once. If he shows hints of such behavior again, let him have it, but for now, I think we're way overreacting... exactly my point of view
Again, it seems that nobody cares about the intent behind it. Coca was trying to be kind. Obviously he was not thinking about how that would affect the tournament and his team. But he did nothing malicious and therefore shouldn't be punished like he did. Hasn't the outcry over this incident been punishment enough for him? I think he's learned not to pull this kind of thing again!! (Although yes, keeping both of them out of tournaments for the rest of the year is fitting, but no more than that for heaven's sake...)
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On November 16 2011 05:26 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:21 S_SienZ wrote:
I don't understand how people are actually defending CoCa's actions using the "he wanted some Terran practice" argument. He could have easily knocked Byun out and played customs with him to do it without sacrificing the integrity and legitimacy of the tournament. thats the dumbest argument people are making. He's on Slayers, while in the team house he can blindly throw an empty can and chances are it will land on a terran player he can practice with
this just shows that you are even unable to read the chatlog posted.
the argument is totally valid. there was no code A spot on the line and he actually had no terran practise partners in house because the rest of SlayerS was at another LAN event.
i think SlayerS is doing this to move the issue away from their own faults. Giving your only Code S zerg no practise partners for his next matches against 3 terrans? that's not professional, but somehow in line with the Yugioh incident.
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It's good that slayers has taken prompt action regarding this matter but I really don't think the punishment fits the crime at all. Kick him out of this korean weekly? yes. Ban him for while? Yes. Make him forfeit his code s slot? Pretty tough punishment here for someone who (I think) doesn't have any prior cheating in his record.
If anything this seems to me like two friends who made a huge mistake in a small tournament and which didn't have betting money hanging in the balance, unlike the savior incident, where money and the integrity of the proleague were involved. I hope Mr. Chae and Slayers will reconsider but it seems a done deal by now. Too bad for Coca 
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On November 16 2011 05:42 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:41 S_SienZ wrote:On November 16 2011 05:40 hmunkey wrote:
Not really sure if I find Coca at fault here. He was in a tournament where winning wouldn't really give him a real prize, so why would he have an incentive to win? He could have just not signed up then. Oh yeah of course, but I don't think the punishment has been proportionate to the "crime."
I beg to differ. It's certainly a lot lighter than what saviOr received.
Both players are young. A little "time-out" by their respective teams won't damage their career much in the long run. If anything it'll definitely ensure that they think twice before pulling stuff like this again.
On November 16 2011 05:44 fleeze wrote:
this just shows that you are even unable to read the chatlog posted.
the argument is totally valid. there was no code A spot on the line and he actually had no terran practise partners in house because the rest of SlayerS was at another LAN event.
i think SlayerS is doing this to move the issue away from their own faults. Giving your only Code S zerg no practise partners for his next matches against 3 terrans? that's not professional, but somehow in line with the Yugioh incident.
2 wrongs does not make 1 right. Also, it's perfectly within SlayerS rights to balance out the assignments of practice partners and sending players out for LANs as they see fit.
OK, I've looked at the chatlog at least 5 times now. Please show me which part says that he's lacking practice partners.
Also, answer me why couldn't he just knock Byun out and play a normal custom game with him?
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On November 16 2011 04:01 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? Whats with the smugness in your post? Those kids are 17 and 18. And how do you teach people that there are consequences to their actions? By making them live through the consequences. And how this is hampering their improvement? They didn't get kicked out of their teams, only a few unreasonable humans are the ones wanting to see them crucified(see the posts that say the punishment was not enough) If anything it seems you are the one angry at life here lol. Jessica, boxer and gerard are not their parents, they are the team managers, they have to respond to their sponsors and to their fans, if one of the members of their team act in a way to embarass their organizations they have all the right in the world to punish them. Punishment may be harsh, but crucifying? Not really 18 isn't a 'kid' anymore, to add to that. 18 is old enough to be drafted in Korea. Age is not an excuse here.
Did you read my post? because thats what I was saying lol
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On November 16 2011 05:48 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:01 Dfgj wrote:On November 16 2011 02:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? Whats with the smugness in your post? Those kids are 17 and 18. And how do you teach people that there are consequences to their actions? By making them live through the consequences. And how this is hampering their improvement? They didn't get kicked out of their teams, only a few unreasonable humans are the ones wanting to see them crucified(see the posts that say the punishment was not enough) If anything it seems you are the one angry at life here lol. Jessica, boxer and gerard are not their parents, they are the team managers, they have to respond to their sponsors and to their fans, if one of the members of their team act in a way to embarass their organizations they have all the right in the world to punish them. Punishment may be harsh, but crucifying? Not really 18 isn't a 'kid' anymore, to add to that. 18 is old enough to be drafted in Korea. Age is not an excuse here. Did you read my post? because thats what I was saying lol
I couldn't disagree more. I made countless mistakes at age 18, even into my early 20s. I suppose you guys were ministers by then.
It's old enough to take responsibility (which they are doing); it's young enough to make it semi-understandable. Jesus, did you guys ever have fun or get into trouble?
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EPT
