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Kresnik02
Brazil36 Posts
If you wan't esports to be considered an sport you need to understand that this can happen and unless there is some explicit rule against you will see everytime friends or teamates meet on important games. Just to show that this kind of stuff happen everywhere: | ||
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zyzq
United States3123 Posts
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Devise
Canada1131 Posts
On November 16 2011 00:01 Termit wrote: People are saying that they are afraid that match fixing will kill esports and they need to set examples and what not. But imo SlayerS and GSL created this "scandal" by themselfs by reacting this way. Honestly, I doubt many people here would actually know and care about this "match fixing" if it wasn't for CoCa being kicked out of the house and getting DQ from Code S and this thread. CoCa dropping game 2 didn't kill esports and it's no match fixing scandal that should be compared to what happened in Brood War last year. No one gained anything from this. If SlayerS are against this they should have been talking to CoCa about it only and not go out in public and just fucking smash him like this and go half way to destroy his sc2 career. People in here are just bandwagoning. This is exactly right also so many people bitching about match fixing, match fixing is pre-meditated usually for finical gain.... this was 2 friends having fun CoCa wanting a bit of practice let Byun win go to a game 3. I was the first round, I doubt he would do that in a tournamet he was far in.....really sad just sad really. | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:50 Strydor wrote: What, am I the only one thinking they were punished fairly like the professional gamers that they are? Not the only one. This was a very suitable punishment. | ||
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rushian
United Kingdom568 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:39 ClaytonBigsby wrote: Is he going to be replaced for his code S group? Whats the plans with that anyone know? He'll go 0-2 in code S group. From there you'd assume he'll forfeit his Code A RO24 giving a free win to Monster/JookTo or Curious. This will put him in the up/downs.. if he forfeits that he's in Code A next season. We'll have to wait for Mr Chae's statement | ||
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
I never feel so bad. CoCa lost everything due to nothing. And I wonder if he won the 3rd game what will happen then? It is like CoCa just wanted to practice with Byun one game more and decided to gg 2 game. I am so crazy about the made decision. PS and for example in Korean Weekly we have a lot of matches when one player doesn't appear to play his game. For example KeeN vs Golden. KeeN didn't appear so it means he forfeited his match. In another example in http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ESV_TV_Korean_Weekly/Finals_3 GuMiho didn't play vs his teammate Sirius. GuMiho had GSL slot and Sirius no. Yes there was no chat but does it matter? | ||
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EsMors
53 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:50 Strydor wrote: What, am I the only one thinking they were punished fairly like the professional gamers that they are? Totaly agreed. Coca may be the favourite player of many, but that shouldn't let him off the hook. I hope this at least prevents similiar stuff happening in the future. If he shouldn't be punished because he is too young and naive, then it follows that he is too young and naive to be a professional gamer, doesn't it? I'd rather he takes his punishment and comes back a more mature player. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:50 Strydor wrote: What, am I the only one thinking they were punished fairly like the professional gamers that they are? I even agree with your bolding. When someone doesn't take competition seriously, sidelining them until you are confident they do is absolutely the right thing to do. Look at it from Slayers point of view, if Coca isn't taking one tournament seriously, you're going to be unsure that he'll take any tournament seriously. And for a team as serious and competitive as Slayers, that's not acceptable. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:52 Xalorian wrote: I didn't know that it was the first round. My points are still valid. There was money on the line in the end, and it was a qualifier : if i'm not mistaken, there is a code A spot. (Turn out that there was no coda A spot on the line either, my bad. I can't read Korean ><') And no matter what, it is still not fair. Coca would not have done that for a random guy. I do think that the punishement is too harsh, but a punishement is needed. They are professional, they just can't do that at all, no matter what. It's just silly. Edit : It was indeed blatant match fixing. It's worse than I thought. Look like it was planned. "1:00 C: i'll let you win B: fuck off. 3:48 B: fuck, you said you'll let me win C: I have to practice, there's 3 Ts in my group ... C: I'm here just because I don't have other Ts to practice B: Next opponent is P, so just forfeit B: Where's your teams T? C: G-star event 26:20, Coca at 150pop 4 mining bases to Byun's 45pop 0 mining base B: fuck, get out, fuck fuck C: I forfeit B: let's do game 3 too C: gg *leaves the game" WTF are you talking about? where is this match fixing? and where is it planned? It seems like Slayers left Coca alone while he had to prepare for his next GSL Code S matches in a group with 3 terrans. Obviously he had no terran training partner in house and maybe he is not allowed to practise with other teams members or byun is not allowed to practise with him (i dunno about this, just speculating). So he wanted a 3rd game to at least get some more practise against high level terrans, this is also why he didn't care to advance and play a protoss. IMHO this totally understandable AND professional (to prepare for GSL). who the fuck cares about a first round of some random tourney with low prizes. it also puts SlayerS in a bad spot if they don't support Coca with a good training partner before his Code S matches. they should have plenty of good terrans to train with him... | ||
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ETisME
12384 Posts
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Kitkatzy
United States213 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:50 Strydor wrote: What, am I the only one thinking they were punished fairly like the professional gamers that they are? To me it seems you have never been a professional gamer and don't understand the situation. Byun isn't offering any incentive for his opponent to quit the match, he is just asking. Coca even states that he only joined to practice against terrans and the next opponent is a protoss (a waste of his time to play), so he has a legitimate reason to forfeit. This kind of thing happens in every game and it isn't wrong there... You can see it over and over again @ the pro scene for games like magic the gathering and marvel. It isn't wrong to quit playing in a tournament for your own reasons... | ||
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JPP
Finland104 Posts
On November 16 2011 00:04 Kresnik02 wrote: I don't get it, they are teamates, one of then already has the code S spot and the other needed the code A, there is no real problem doing this if there is no rule against matchfixing. If you wan't esports to be considered an sport you need to understand that this can happen and unless there is some explicit rule against you will see everytime friends or teamates meet on important games. I had exactly the same thoughts. In F1 this happens all the time. Usually in match-fixing the problem is the money that can be made betting on a match, but this wasn't the case here. If one player wants to let the other one win and take the prizemoney, then that's his choice. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:47 clusen wrote: You can get that message across without kicking him out of Code S(or forcing him to forfeit) and out of the team house and forbidding him to enter any tournaments in the near future. That he is not allowed to enter future ESV tournaments is a logical consequence, maybe some inhouse punishment aswell, but all those things together is way too much. Coca is 17, you do stupid things at that age. I don't want to defend him, what he he did was utterly stupid, but there is not a reason to make such a big deal out of it imo. There is a reason to make such a big deal of it. They want no one to do something that Savior and others did in Broodwar or even close to it. And what comes to the "forcing him to forfeit" or "kicking him out of Code S", seems like Coca was pretty cooperative here. Not to mention, the language they used SHOULDN'T BE tolerable in a broadcasted match, especially when we are talking about team Slayers here. They do have sponsors you know, thus they should act professionally if they represent the team. + Show Spoiler + 사건의 당사자인 최종환은 반성의 의미로 소니에릭슨 GSL 시즌7 코드S를 기권했다. 최종환은 이번 사건의 책임을 통감하고 스스로 코드S 잔여경기 출전을 포기하고 자숙하기로 결정했다. 이에 따라 최종환은 오는 16일 열리는 소니에릭슨 GSL 시즌7 코드S 16강 C조 경기에 출전하지 않는다. Coca has forfeit the GSL Nov. Code S for meaning of self-reflect. Coca himself has felt responsible to this incident and forfeit the rest of matches. So, Coca will not be on GSL Code S RO16 Group C match on 16th. + Show Spoiler + However, even if it is a tournament that does not award GSL Code A seeds, the use of profanities in a broadcast with many viewers and a blatant disregard for competition cannot be ignored by the GSL. We are unable to make a decision on the punishment yet based on only screenshots and the community. Therefore, we will be asking Prime and SlayerS about the situation and what further action should be taken. This seriously reminds me somehow of a case here where i live, where a guy got fined for hundreds of thousands of dollars because he downloaded a single song/album from the internet. Because you downloaded ONE ALBUM(or song, cant remember), does it mean you should be fined with such a huge fine? No, in my opinion, but do you know why they fined that guy so much? Because they wan't to make it clear that it is illegal/wrong and if you get caught, there will be consequences. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On November 16 2011 00:00 gwixter wrote: overreaction imo how is this different from stephano vs bratok match? (except at assembly those two didn't talk about it openly in chat) This is different because the other matches everyone is speaking of has no definite proof that they are match fixing, throwing games, etc. This one with Coca and Byun however is different. It's blatantly expressed and proven with chat. | ||
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 16 2011 00:07 EsMors wrote: Totaly agreed. Coca may be the favourite player of many, but that shouldn't let him off the hook. I hope this at least prevents similiar stuff happening in the future. If he shouldn't be punished because he is too young and naive, then it follows that he is too young and naive to be a professional gamer, doesn't it? I'd rather he takes his punishment and comes back a more mature player. And what about the stuff that happened in the past? Stephano vs BratOk, Idra vs DeMuslim? Should they face disciplinary measures as well once they participate in the GSL? edit: On November 16 2011 00:22 trinxified wrote: This is different because the other matches everyone is speaking of has no definite proof that they are match fixing, throwing games, etc. This one with Coca and Byun however is different. It's blatantly expressed and proven with chat. Are you talking about the game where they went wonky strategies, the loser left a game which he was winning and the winner saying disbelievingly "no..."? I think gamers have been put to court for less obvious stuff than this, sry. | ||
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Moosy
Canada396 Posts
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44186 Posts
On November 16 2011 00:05 Valikyr wrote: Not the only one. This was a very suitable punishment. Don't worry, plenty of people understand how terrible this actually is (especially those who live in Korea), because they're not brand new to the community, they understand sportsmanship, fair play, and respect, and they're not wasting time creating strawman arguments like "Well he didn't make money off throwing the game and jeopardizing the sanctity of tournament play and cheating the system, so I'm not going to call it match-fixing, which means it's not a big deal." The vocal minority is just piping up, that's all. | ||
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MildSeven
Canada311 Posts
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