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Coca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 46

Forum Index > SC2 General
1944 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 44 45 46 47 48 98 Next
Devolved
Profile Joined April 2008
United States2753 Posts
November 15 2011 08:04 GMT
#901
Unfortunate situation, but I think SlayerS has done the right thing. It's a big mistake by the players and they deserve to be punished. This doesn't seem premeditated so it's not quite as bad, but still the players should know better and should be held accountable for their actions.
$♥$
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
November 15 2011 08:04 GMT
#902
On November 15 2011 17:01 klops wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote:
This shouldnt be considered match fixing in the traditional sense simply cause Coca received no monetary benefit for throwing the match. Its not like hes making a ton of money by losing... as far as we know. If he feels a friendship with Byun is more important than the weekly and decides to leave why cant he?


Because it is the same as a high school defender letting an opposing striker pass him to score a goal because they are neighbors and friends. And that's ok in your book because no money was involved. Dude... That's sooooo fucked up.


team sport analogies for a 1on1 game hooO!

it's really not that big a deal. what they did was "wrong" but the entire blame shouldn't lie on them. correct me if i'm wrong but the korean weekly's big pull is the GSL spot and not the money. tournaments like this encourage this sort of thing where a niche of players allowed to compete don't receive the same monetary reward as others.

Cella was informed 2 weeks ago that this weekly will have no Code A implications. Also Dr Chae said they are still in discussions with ESV over the Code A slot for next year.

Also Taeja is Code S, but always wins his matches (or at least doesn't throw a won game).

What CoCa and Byun did was more stupid than wrong. And it's just sad that they didn't anticipate the reaction from the Korean community before doing something like this. The reaction was too harsh though.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
summernova
Profile Joined August 2011
United States16 Posts
November 15 2011 08:05 GMT
#903
A seventeen year old boy left a game where he was winning to do something nice for his friend in a small, relatively meaningless tournament and now his life is in the dumpster.

Look closer.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
Alokiya
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States648 Posts
November 15 2011 08:06 GMT
#904
Banning Coca from any major competition and kicking him out of the team house is pretty intense. I really think a ban from ESV for a few months and a verbal ass kicking from Cella and Boxer would be more appropriate, but I can understand how anything remotely related to fixing or throwing a match would incite this reaction from a korean team/organization. I just hope Coca's career isn't completely fucked over this.
C'mon my guppies, swim up my stream! - Day[9]
Lunares
Profile Joined May 2010
United States909 Posts
November 15 2011 08:06 GMT
#905
How Diamond is reacting is appropriate (imo). Ban them from the tournament for a few months and figure out how to deal with it later.

How GSL is reacting (and SlayerS) IS harsh. However I don't really see how they could react less harshly and still punish Coca for throwing a match. (I for one don't call this match fixing. There was no agreement to do anything. Coca simply threw the game). However given past history (Savior incident) you can't let Coca/Byun off with no punishment. Letting Coca play in the premiere tournament of Korea in 2 days right after this is obvviously sending the wrong message, so the only thing to do I see is to have him not play. If there was some way of punishing without being that harsh that would be better, but unfortunately there isn't.

Also Coca needs to make a public apology. Not because one is needed, but because one would help his image (imo).
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
November 15 2011 08:08 GMT
#906
On November 15 2011 16:58 ZorBa.G wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:48 Sephyr wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:45 ZorBa.G wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:15 ZorBa.G wrote:
I feel the punishment from SlayerS and the withdrawal from Code S a fit punishment for a player who has done something very stupid.

Byun should be banned from any entry to major tournaments for a good lengthy period of time.

Regardless if they are good players or not, or however many fan boys they have. There is no room for this stupidity and it should not be tolerated. They deserved to be hit with the full force of punishment.

Many other pros are working their ass off way to much and they don't deserve to have idiots getting up to dodgy shit like this.

How would you feel being in the same round as Byun, you play a tough match and lose against another player... whilst Byun is getting a free ride to the next round?

Personally, I love watching Coca play. But I have lost all respect for him. This is a dog act.


QFE.

To the guy arguing what match fixing means and all the rest of it. This isn't Harvard University, it's an online forum. You know exactly what this thread is about and what people mean.

Basically, your arguing about something completely irrelevant.


Completely irrelevant? Every second poster has basically said that this is match-fixing and every third poster has said it's to the same scale of the savior incident. I'm arguing that it's a thrown game and the punishments for throwing this game have been blown way out of proportion.
Why should CoCa be unfairly labeled as a match-fixer which puts him in the same boat as Savior? I don't find that fair at all.


So your telling me this is acceptable and both of these players only need a slap on the wrist? For reference, please read what I quoted.

Do you realise this also creates a bad image amongst all professionals of the game. Behaviour like this only creates doubt within competitions. People will actually start to think, "Is this a proper match?"

And as I've stated before, for those who try so hard to help e-sports grow and those who help put on tournaments..... this is like just throwing all of that back in their face. It's disgusting really. I couldn't care less if you think it's a "thrown game" or "match fixing," either way this is probably one of the most disrespecting things you can do to the community and your fans.

I don't see how you think this behaviour should be lightly punished. I really don't.


I'm a fan, i buy vod access to almost everything and i'm not really bothered. They are kids that did something stupid, it's not the end of the world. Especially as they didn't even match fix stealthily but did it in chat just makes me believe that they didn't take it seriously and underestimated how seriously some people take stuff like this.
macncheezeplz
Profile Joined June 2011
United States93 Posts
November 15 2011 08:08 GMT
#907
This really isn't that big of a deal. This wasn't over money or anything like that. Coca already had a spot, Byun didn't. If they didn't say anything (and Coca did a better job at losing) everything would have gone along fine. Punishment for making it so obvious it seems like.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 08:09:06
November 15 2011 08:08 GMT
#908
Byun just tweeted
"죄송합니다.. 정말 죄송합니다.."
Which translates to "Sorry. I'm really sorry."

http://twitter.com/#!/GhOstKingPrime/status/136354614449684480
According to Google Translate.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 08:11:05
November 15 2011 08:08 GMT
#909
The temporary ban on tournament play for both players is an appropriate response.

If you don't take match fixing seriously, it undermines the entire competitive nature of the game because people will stop believing that players really won their matches.

Also, everyone is trying to stay away from the match fixing scandal of Broodwar, and so they're taking every action to punish this minor match fixing to keep people confident in the competitive nature of SC2.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
November 15 2011 08:09 GMT
#910
On November 15 2011 17:01 klops wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote:
This shouldnt be considered match fixing in the traditional sense simply cause Coca received no monetary benefit for throwing the match. Its not like hes making a ton of money by losing... as far as we know. If he feels a friendship with Byun is more important than the weekly and decides to leave why cant he?


Because it is the same as a high school defender letting an opposing striker pass him to score a goal because they are neighbors and friends. And that's ok in your book because no money was involved. Dude... That's sooooo fucked up.


team sport analogies for a 1on1 game hooO!

it's really not that big a deal. what they did was "wrong" but the entire blame shouldn't lie on them. correct me if i'm wrong but the korean weekly's big pull is the GSL spot and not the money. tournaments like this encourage this sort of thing where a niche of players allowed to compete don't receive the same monetary reward as others.


Because in S.Korea, eSports is in every way as respectable as any pro-Sporting event such as the K-League football.
Unlike the foreign scene where there are *special* rules for special people if you get what I mean.
Where dishonest behavior is condoned under the banner of "fun".
Cauterize the area
Liveon
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Netherlands1083 Posts
November 15 2011 08:09 GMT
#911
This sucks T.T
Byun just tweeted: 죄송합니다.. 정말 죄송합니다..
Which google translate translates into ' Sorry, I'm really sorry'.
Hearthstone manager ECVisualize, Head Admin DSCL
rainfable
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States171 Posts
November 15 2011 08:09 GMT
#912
Horrible decision on CoCa's part, one of the players I liked better too.
Hope this is the last time he ever does something as stupid as this, it most likely stuck a gigantic dent in his rep as well as his team's trust towards him.
{♔} eri (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧   ⋆ my life for aiur!
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 08:11:58
November 15 2011 08:10 GMT
#913
Wow, people seem to care way to much about this. Yeah, he did wrong, and yeah, he's getting punished. Yeah, there's absolutely no fucking way in hell he's doing it again. End of. Anyone baying for blood has their priorities seriously messed up.

Bear in mind that the "actual" punishment (being not allowed to participate in ESV/this GSL) is nothing compared to the punishment of the shame, especially in Korea. Just look at Twitter and even this thread: there are tons of people who despise Coca and Byun now, and are calling for their banning from eSports altogether!
kdgns
Profile Joined May 2009
United States2427 Posts
November 15 2011 08:11 GMT
#914
On November 15 2011 17:08 macncheezeplz wrote:
This really isn't that big of a deal. This wasn't over money or anything like that. Coca already had a spot, Byun didn't. If they didn't say anything (and Coca did a better job at losing) everything would have gone along fine. Punishment for making it so obvious it seems like.



It is a big deal, sports in general is built on many assumptions, one of those assumptions is that the matches are not fixed, otherwise it would not be a sport, it would be a show, like fake wrestling. Doing stuff like match fixing blatantly is very damaging to an emerging esport trying to gain credibility.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
November 15 2011 08:11 GMT
#915
On November 15 2011 17:09 Liveon wrote:
This sucks T.T
Byun just tweeted: 죄송합니다.. 정말 죄송합니다..
Which google translate translates into ' Sorry, I'm really sorry'.


I can't describe how much it hurts me, I consider CoCa and Byun friends and feel horrible about all this...................................




Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
klops
Profile Joined June 2010
United States674 Posts
November 15 2011 08:12 GMT
#916
On November 15 2011 17:09 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 17:01 klops wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote:
This shouldnt be considered match fixing in the traditional sense simply cause Coca received no monetary benefit for throwing the match. Its not like hes making a ton of money by losing... as far as we know. If he feels a friendship with Byun is more important than the weekly and decides to leave why cant he?


Because it is the same as a high school defender letting an opposing striker pass him to score a goal because they are neighbors and friends. And that's ok in your book because no money was involved. Dude... That's sooooo fucked up.


team sport analogies for a 1on1 game hooO!

it's really not that big a deal. what they did was "wrong" but the entire blame shouldn't lie on them. correct me if i'm wrong but the korean weekly's big pull is the GSL spot and not the money. tournaments like this encourage this sort of thing where a niche of players allowed to compete don't receive the same monetary reward as others.


Because in S.Korea, eSports is in every way as respectable as any pro-Sporting event such as the K-League football.
Unlike the foreign scene where there are *special* rules for special people if you get what I mean.
Where dishonest behavior is condoned under the banner of "fun".


huh?

pretty sure you didn't understand. your analogy made no sense. your scenario is exponentially worse than the one at hand because other parties are directly involved - not indirectly like here.

completely irrelevant from south korean esports vs foreigner esports and i have no idea how you would read it as that.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
November 15 2011 08:12 GMT
#917
On November 15 2011 17:00 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Hot_Bid Hot_Bid
Yeah @SlayersCella said "Just remember what happened today. And never forget it" ... interesting how strongly you come down on this kid

Hot_Bid Hot_Bid
... but when some kids get molested in a clan it's all "we can confirm nor deny" and no strong statements #idontforget

Awesome tweets from the Hot_Bid, reminding us that match fixing is bad, but shit HAS been way worse... and ignored.


Maybe because one is a real criminal offence while the other one is not? Are you even allowed to talk about who did what in a molestation case if it isn't settled? Why even compare those two things?


Don't you think it's a little fucked up to be so serious about this (relatively) small incident, but not get more upset about molestation bullshit that was happening in the scene? I mean, match fixing is a BIG DEAL, but Cella also wasn't getting so vocal when kids were getting hurt. Sure, this isn't a perfect comparison (I mean... at all, really), but a little perspective can really help.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Larsin
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands162 Posts
November 15 2011 08:13 GMT
#918
Ofcourse this isnt good, but its not like it didnt happened before. Only difference is that they dont do it in chat.
ZorBa.G
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia279 Posts
November 15 2011 08:14 GMT
#919
On November 15 2011 17:08 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:58 ZorBa.G wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:48 Sephyr wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:45 ZorBa.G wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:15 ZorBa.G wrote:
I feel the punishment from SlayerS and the withdrawal from Code S a fit punishment for a player who has done something very stupid.

Byun should be banned from any entry to major tournaments for a good lengthy period of time.

Regardless if they are good players or not, or however many fan boys they have. There is no room for this stupidity and it should not be tolerated. They deserved to be hit with the full force of punishment.

Many other pros are working their ass off way to much and they don't deserve to have idiots getting up to dodgy shit like this.

How would you feel being in the same round as Byun, you play a tough match and lose against another player... whilst Byun is getting a free ride to the next round?

Personally, I love watching Coca play. But I have lost all respect for him. This is a dog act.


QFE.

To the guy arguing what match fixing means and all the rest of it. This isn't Harvard University, it's an online forum. You know exactly what this thread is about and what people mean.

Basically, your arguing about something completely irrelevant.


Completely irrelevant? Every second poster has basically said that this is match-fixing and every third poster has said it's to the same scale of the savior incident. I'm arguing that it's a thrown game and the punishments for throwing this game have been blown way out of proportion.
Why should CoCa be unfairly labeled as a match-fixer which puts him in the same boat as Savior? I don't find that fair at all.


So your telling me this is acceptable and both of these players only need a slap on the wrist? For reference, please read what I quoted.

Do you realise this also creates a bad image amongst all professionals of the game. Behaviour like this only creates doubt within competitions. People will actually start to think, "Is this a proper match?"

And as I've stated before, for those who try so hard to help e-sports grow and those who help put on tournaments..... this is like just throwing all of that back in their face. It's disgusting really. I couldn't care less if you think it's a "thrown game" or "match fixing," either way this is probably one of the most disrespecting things you can do to the community and your fans.

I don't see how you think this behaviour should be lightly punished. I really don't.


I'm a fan, i buy vod access to almost everything and i'm not really bothered. They are kids that did something stupid, it's not the end of the world. Especially as they didn't even match fix stealthily but did it in chat just makes me believe that they didn't take it seriously and underestimated how seriously some people take stuff like this.


So you don't mind spending money on "thown games" or "fixed matches."

Interesting....
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
November 15 2011 08:15 GMT
#920
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