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On November 15 2011 17:14 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:08 karpo wrote:On November 15 2011 16:58 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:48 Sephyr wrote:On November 15 2011 16:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:15 ZorBa.G wrote:
I feel the punishment from SlayerS and the withdrawal from Code S a fit punishment for a player who has done something very stupid.
Byun should be banned from any entry to major tournaments for a good lengthy period of time.
Regardless if they are good players or not, or however many fan boys they have. There is no room for this stupidity and it should not be tolerated. They deserved to be hit with the full force of punishment.
Many other pros are working their ass off way to much and they don't deserve to have idiots getting up to dodgy shit like this.
How would you feel being in the same round as Byun, you play a tough match and lose against another player... whilst Byun is getting a free ride to the next round?
Personally, I love watching Coca play. But I have lost all respect for him. This is a dog act. QFE. To the guy arguing what match fixing means and all the rest of it. This isn't Harvard University, it's an online forum. You know exactly what this thread is about and what people mean. Basically, your arguing about something completely irrelevant. Completely irrelevant? Every second poster has basically said that this is match-fixing and every third poster has said it's to the same scale of the savior incident. I'm arguing that it's a thrown game and the punishments for throwing this game have been blown way out of proportion. Why should CoCa be unfairly labeled as a match-fixer which puts him in the same boat as Savior? I don't find that fair at all. So your telling me this is acceptable and both of these players only need a slap on the wrist? For reference, please read what I quoted. Do you realise this also creates a bad image amongst all professionals of the game. Behaviour like this only creates doubt within competitions. People will actually start to think, "Is this a proper match?" And as I've stated before, for those who try so hard to help e-sports grow and those who help put on tournaments..... this is like just throwing all of that back in their face. It's disgusting really. I couldn't care less if you think it's a "thrown game" or "match fixing," either way this is probably one of the most disrespecting things you can do to the community and your fans. I don't see how you think this behaviour should be lightly punished. I really don't. I'm a fan, i buy vod access to almost everything and i'm not really bothered. They are kids that did something stupid, it's not the end of the world. Especially as they didn't even match fix stealthily but did it in chat just makes me believe that they didn't take it seriously and underestimated how seriously some people take stuff like this. So you don't mind spending money on "thown games" or "fixed matches." Interesting....
Hmm people can post on a forum but cant read
Interesting....
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I obviously didn't go through all the pages, but from scanning the responses, it seems most people are pissed that Coca tanked the game. I don't feel that way at all. I don't question Coca's spirit or moral values or whatever. Because given the situation, it seemed like the obvious thing to do. And one that the Korean Weekly should've realized beforehand, so that players aren't put on the spot.
But seriously. How the **** can he be so stupid? It would've been oh so simple to fix the match before hand. You know, call each other and make it hard to figure out. Don't lay too much defense against drops. Accidently have some lag in your surrounds and your banelings get destroyed by tanks. You can even screw up micro against bunker rush. It's so easy to fix matches in ZvT because it requires high level concentration by the zerg anyway.
Coca and Byun should be kicked out just for being total morons.
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On November 15 2011 17:12 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:00 karpo wrote:On November 15 2011 16:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Hot_Bid Hot_Bid
Yeah @SlayersCella said "Just remember what happened today. And never forget it" ... interesting how strongly you come down on this kid
Hot_Bid Hot_Bid
... but when some kids get molested in a clan it's all "we can confirm nor deny" and no strong statements #idontforget
Awesome tweets from the Hot_Bid, reminding us that match fixing is bad, but shit HAS been way worse... and ignored. Maybe because one is a real criminal offence while the other one is not? Are you even allowed to talk about who did what in a molestation case if it isn't settled? Why even compare those two things? Don't you think it's a little fucked up to be so serious about this (relatively) small incident, but not get more upset about molestation bullshit that was happening in the scene? I mean, match fixing is a BIG DEAL, but Cella also wasn't getting so vocal when kids were getting hurt. Sure, this isn't a perfect comparison (I mean... at all, really), but a little perspective can really help.
I don't think it's fucked up to be serious about this openly. Molestation is a much more sensitive thing and the best way to do it might not be to openly tweet about it, especially if there's some kind of lawsuit/legal issues going on. They are two totally different events where one is much more complex. Comparing them is stupid to say the least.
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On November 15 2011 17:15 zeru wrote:
They dont deserve a second chance imo. match fixing is never acceptable.
I have to think the leniency is only coming from the fact that they're both still teenagers.
Koreans take eSports damn seriously. This IS them cutting them slack.
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Bad decision by two young people. Unfortunate situations are bound to happen in any tournament format. If anything, the validity of results should be of highest priority. It's the reason why "Code S" is reigning supreme in prestige. May it damage both careers irreparably? Maybe. But part of that still relies on their part. It's not like they are all alone in "not being in Code S", yet everybody copes more or less well. Lessons are to be learned and life goes on.
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On November 15 2011 17:12 klops wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:09 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On November 15 2011 17:01 klops wrote:On November 15 2011 16:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On November 15 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote:
This shouldnt be considered match fixing in the traditional sense simply cause Coca received no monetary benefit for throwing the match. Its not like hes making a ton of money by losing... as far as we know. If he feels a friendship with Byun is more important than the weekly and decides to leave why cant he? Because it is the same as a high school defender letting an opposing striker pass him to score a goal because they are neighbors and friends. And that's ok in your book because no money was involved. Dude... That's sooooo fucked up. team sport analogies for a 1on1 game hooO! it's really not that big a deal. what they did was "wrong" but the entire blame shouldn't lie on them. correct me if i'm wrong but the korean weekly's big pull is the GSL spot and not the money. tournaments like this encourage this sort of thing where a niche of players allowed to compete don't receive the same monetary reward as others. Because in S.Korea, eSports is in every way as respectable as any pro-Sporting event such as the K-League football. Unlike the foreign scene where there are *special* rules for special people if you get what I mean. Where dishonest behavior is condoned under the banner of "fun". huh? pretty sure you didn't understand. your analogy made no sense. your scenario is exponentially worse than the one at hand because other parties are directly involved - not indirectly like here. completely irrelevant from south korean esports vs foreigner esports and i have no idea how you would read it as that.
You clearly do not understand the concept of sportsmanship.
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On November 15 2011 17:11 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:09 Liveon wrote:
This sucks T.T
Byun just tweeted: 죄송합니다.. 정말 죄송합니다..
Which google translate translates into ' Sorry, I'm really sorry'. I can't describe how much it hurts me, I consider CoCa and Byun friends and feel horrible about all this................................... 
You didn't do anything wrong - It was very appropriate from your perspective, in my oppinion.
In Korean eyes, CoCa has shamed himself, his team and his sport by doing this though, their reaction can seem quite strong with western eyes, but that is not something you can do anything about.. I think your reaction is completely fine here.
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i would have done the same for my friend.. i just wouldnt talk about it on the game chat.. thats stupid lol
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On November 15 2011 17:15 zeru wrote:
They dont deserve a second chance imo. match fixing is never acceptable.
This is stupid. What they did was wrong and this punishment itself is a little too harsh.
Permanent bans is stupid. There was no monetary gain for any of the parties involved and it's not like they had a grander scheme to fix it. They just made a stupid mistake. You're ruining the careers of two good players over something petty.
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On November 15 2011 17:15 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:14 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 17:08 karpo wrote:On November 15 2011 16:58 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:48 Sephyr wrote:On November 15 2011 16:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:15 ZorBa.G wrote:
I feel the punishment from SlayerS and the withdrawal from Code S a fit punishment for a player who has done something very stupid.
Byun should be banned from any entry to major tournaments for a good lengthy period of time.
Regardless if they are good players or not, or however many fan boys they have. There is no room for this stupidity and it should not be tolerated. They deserved to be hit with the full force of punishment.
Many other pros are working their ass off way to much and they don't deserve to have idiots getting up to dodgy shit like this.
How would you feel being in the same round as Byun, you play a tough match and lose against another player... whilst Byun is getting a free ride to the next round?
Personally, I love watching Coca play. But I have lost all respect for him. This is a dog act. QFE. To the guy arguing what match fixing means and all the rest of it. This isn't Harvard University, it's an online forum. You know exactly what this thread is about and what people mean. Basically, your arguing about something completely irrelevant. Completely irrelevant? Every second poster has basically said that this is match-fixing and every third poster has said it's to the same scale of the savior incident. I'm arguing that it's a thrown game and the punishments for throwing this game have been blown way out of proportion. Why should CoCa be unfairly labeled as a match-fixer which puts him in the same boat as Savior? I don't find that fair at all. So your telling me this is acceptable and both of these players only need a slap on the wrist? For reference, please read what I quoted. Do you realise this also creates a bad image amongst all professionals of the game. Behaviour like this only creates doubt within competitions. People will actually start to think, "Is this a proper match?" And as I've stated before, for those who try so hard to help e-sports grow and those who help put on tournaments..... this is like just throwing all of that back in their face. It's disgusting really. I couldn't care less if you think it's a "thrown game" or "match fixing," either way this is probably one of the most disrespecting things you can do to the community and your fans. I don't see how you think this behaviour should be lightly punished. I really don't. I'm a fan, i buy vod access to almost everything and i'm not really bothered. They are kids that did something stupid, it's not the end of the world. Especially as they didn't even match fix stealthily but did it in chat just makes me believe that they didn't take it seriously and underestimated how seriously some people take stuff like this. So you don't mind spending money on "thown games" or "fixed matches." Interesting.... Hmm people can post on a forum but cant read Interesting....
OK, an attempt at a direct attack. No idea what your trying to get at here. Do you mind pointing out what part I couldn't read? Maybe I could further elaborate for those who are struggling to understand.
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I think there are are distinct diffrense between match fixing (pre match) or a spurse descision to throw a game for a friend altough none of them are acceptable one is still ALOT worse than the other (in my opinion)
I do think the punishment is fit but i dont hope they will keep them out for to long just a good hard slap on the wrist just to show they take these matters seriuosly and make sue coca or anyone else on thir team would think of throwing a matdch like that.
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On November 15 2011 17:14 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:08 karpo wrote:On November 15 2011 16:58 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:48 Sephyr wrote:On November 15 2011 16:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:15 ZorBa.G wrote:
I feel the punishment from SlayerS and the withdrawal from Code S a fit punishment for a player who has done something very stupid.
Byun should be banned from any entry to major tournaments for a good lengthy period of time.
Regardless if they are good players or not, or however many fan boys they have. There is no room for this stupidity and it should not be tolerated. They deserved to be hit with the full force of punishment.
Many other pros are working their ass off way to much and they don't deserve to have idiots getting up to dodgy shit like this.
How would you feel being in the same round as Byun, you play a tough match and lose against another player... whilst Byun is getting a free ride to the next round?
Personally, I love watching Coca play. But I have lost all respect for him. This is a dog act. QFE. To the guy arguing what match fixing means and all the rest of it. This isn't Harvard University, it's an online forum. You know exactly what this thread is about and what people mean. Basically, your arguing about something completely irrelevant. Completely irrelevant? Every second poster has basically said that this is match-fixing and every third poster has said it's to the same scale of the savior incident. I'm arguing that it's a thrown game and the punishments for throwing this game have been blown way out of proportion. Why should CoCa be unfairly labeled as a match-fixer which puts him in the same boat as Savior? I don't find that fair at all. So your telling me this is acceptable and both of these players only need a slap on the wrist? For reference, please read what I quoted. Do you realise this also creates a bad image amongst all professionals of the game. Behaviour like this only creates doubt within competitions. People will actually start to think, "Is this a proper match?" And as I've stated before, for those who try so hard to help e-sports grow and those who help put on tournaments..... this is like just throwing all of that back in their face. It's disgusting really. I couldn't care less if you think it's a "thrown game" or "match fixing," either way this is probably one of the most disrespecting things you can do to the community and your fans. I don't see how you think this behaviour should be lightly punished. I really don't. I'm a fan, i buy vod access to almost everything and i'm not really bothered. They are kids that did something stupid, it's not the end of the world. Especially as they didn't even match fix stealthily but did it in chat just makes me believe that they didn't take it seriously and underestimated how seriously some people take stuff like this. So you don't mind spending money on "thown games" or "fixed matches." Interesting....
Great work putting words in my mouth, dude. All i'm saying is that this "incident" isn't a big deal to me as a "esports supporter". It's two kids doing something stupid, not a big matchfixing scandal. Just because everyone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you need to build a strawman.
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I understand that they get banned from ESV for a period of time, but the GSL ban (and complete tournament ban) is just an overkill. Not that it surprises me from Koreans - I think it's well known that they take these kind of thingy VERY seriously, but nontheless they are not criminals they just fucked up.
As earlier said:
On November 15 2011 17:05 summernova wrote:
A seventeen year old boy left a game where he was winning to do something nice for his friend in a small, relatively meaningless tournament and now his life is in the dumpster.
Look closer.
exactly this.
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This is way too harsh. No one gave a sorry crap that Demuslim threw a series to Idra by scv rushing in an ESWC QUALIFIER. Demuslim knew he couldn't go to the tourney and so dosed around after getting an early lead. This has happened in the foreign scene many times.
The only difference here is that the evidence is really clear and that it cant be argued the opposite way that Coca threw the match, whilst all others can be seen as 'oops I scv rushed'. I understand the match fixing BW history, but to deny a code S spot, and a team house is extremely harsh. Coca may not even come back mentally from this and he was a top 5 Zerg player.
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Kicking Coca out of gsl is fair, as others have pointed out. Slayers kicking him out of the house is way to harsh, they are just kids and what he did was really stupid but not impossible to forgive and forget...
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I am very sad to read about this.
Personally I blame Byun more than Coca. Byun should've known better than to ask for this. Coca, while also in the wrong, I can understand him a bit more. He's young, Byun is his friend, and when Byun asked Coca made an on-the-spot decision in reaction to what Byun asked him. Coca made the wrong decision, but it was not premeditated. Byun, by asking Coca to give him the win, already came to the game with the mentality that if he loses then it's 'okay' to ask this of his friend Coca.
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Can we get a push on liquibet? haha
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better bring the no chat while playing rule to sc2
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On November 15 2011 17:23 Not_That wrote:
I am very sad to read about this.
Personally I blame Byun more than Coca. Byun should've known better than to ask for this. Coca, while also in the wrong, I can understand him a bit more. He's young, Byun is his friend, and when Byun asked Coca made an on-the-spot decision in reaction to what Byun asked him. Coca made the wrong decision, but it was not premeditated. Byun, by asking Coca to give him the win, already came to the game with the mentality that if he loses then it's 'okay' to ask this of his friend Coca.
I felt more upset with coca, but you have a very good point there.
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EPT
