On December 11 2011 04:09 monXikk wrote: I just want to drop that international teams/foreigner teams spend A LOT of their money on plane tickets, BW teams dont need to do that. On top of that Korean teams are just BW, not CS+LoL+Dota+Starcraft etc like EG, fnatic, Dignitas, SK etc.
On December 11 2011 04:09 monXikk wrote: I just want to drop that international teams/foreigner teams spend A LOT of their money on plane tickets, BW teams dont need to do that. On top of that Korean teams are just BW, not CS+LoL+Dota+Starcraft etc like EG, fnatic, Dignitas, SK etc.
On December 11 2011 04:09 monXikk wrote: I just want to drop that international teams/foreigner teams spend A LOT of their money on plane tickets, BW teams dont need to do that. On top of that Korean teams are just BW, not CS+LoL+Dota+Starcraft etc like EG, fnatic, Dignitas, SK etc.
like every team has a special forces team too lol. SKT, KT, STX, CJ, Woongjin all have current teams in the proleague. Only samsung, ace, and team 8 don't (afaik). MBC and estro also had teams afaik (both are gone, but the mbc team got picked up as somebody. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=269488. Kespa's website lists TVing, IT Bank, and Q'Senn as the other teams, so maybe one of those is/was the MBC team? I don't know special forces.
I know someone already answered that as I looked up stuff for this post but w/e. Anyways, I also posted this in some old thread about finances of current teams, just to give some numbers:
Long post spoilered so as to not distract thread. Also I'm a scrub so my opinion isn't worth anything, but this is just compiled financial data. + Show Spoiler +
We all know the answer is simply money; anyways, let's do analysis of sponsors of current (7 + 1 brand brand new) bw teams and "why they are in esports". Useful link is here, the major corporations in south korea on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_South_Korea
spoiler is just some compiled financial data; not too relevant. just shows how large the sponsoring companies are (doesn't mean they give to the team, but they are big big companies; compared to something like primezzang or korean sc2 sponsors at this point) + Show Spoiler +
--Samsung: largest revenue company in south korea; samsung electronics is a large part --SKT (part of SK Group: Fourth largest revenue in south korea; however, sk telecom is a large part of the group regardless) --STX: 10th? largest revenue in south korea --KT: 17th largest revenue in south korea --Air Force ACE: military team; they don't really depend on sponsors the same way other teams do I imagine --CJ Group: not on first wiki link above, but their english site claims 335 billion KRW in operating revenue 2010 (~300 million USD) http://cjir.irplus.co.kr/global_eng/ir/finance/highlight.asp cj is also in list of chaebol (large conglomerate) companies in korea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol larger than korean air chaebol *EDIT*--actually, I guess not larger than korean air. I don't know why I would have written that before; w/e. --Woongjin Group: not on first wiki list, but claims 7831 (billion?) KRW assets (7 billion USD) and 247 billion KRW (222 million) income in 2010 http://www.woongjin.com/English/investment/mn_result.aspx
Teams that disbanded: wemade (Wemade entertainment, which lists 290 billion KRW (260 million USD) in total assets 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wemade_Entertainment) mbc game: mbc the media conglomerate is large (661 million USD revenue) but it is converting mbc game to a kpop channel hwaseung: this site lists some of its financial information, but I don't know if it's all of the conglomerate or just whatever this one automotive parts branch of hwaseung has is http://www.hsrna.com/eng/investment/investment1.asp
skipping that spoiler well, the above spoiler just establishes that major corporations in korea are sponsoring bw, and have been for many years (elaboration down below). 2 teams that disbanded after the last season (Wemade and hwaseung) were a bit smaller corporations. MBC game is shutting down as the overall company MBC (media network) is turning it into a kpop channel.
As far as advertising goes, hwaseung doesn't really seem to have the same type of "electronics/gaming" sector that some of the other large companies clearly have and could benefit from sponsoring ESPORTS (samsung, sk telecom, kt (another telecom company/internet), cj which does quite a bit of entertainment/media/internet in addition to their food services). Wemade is an online games company so it's a bit surprising to me they cut their team, but I guess they decided it was too costly for the benefit or were having internal problems. STX is a ship builder and woongjin is an ??? company (website said it started as educational/publication company, and now says its a holdings company)
It's no surprise that those 4 teams--sky, kt, samsung, cj--are older (all have been in their current form with same sponsorship since 2006 or older) and have always been viewed as having more "money" than the other teams. STX soul has been in the form of STX since 2004. Woongjin changed to woongjin in 2008. Air Force Ace is a special case. Hwaseung, wemade, and mbc game were comparably smaller sponsors than the other teams in the modern era (when nada was on wemade, I get the impression it may have been larger).
summary: Of the 7 current teams (not counting the brand brand new team put together),5 (skt, kt, cj, and samsung, air force ace) are pretty stable imo. Sk planet, SK Telecom's cell phone division iirc, just picked up this year's proleague after sponsorship from shinhan bank. They are sponsored by huge companies in south korea that have been sponsoring the teams for years (latest change was 2006 for CJ as far as I can tell), that all have significant shares in electronic/esports industry; air force ace also is a different type of team. The teams "at risk", in my view, are STX and Woongjin--STX had some internal problems recently (put all players up for draft; not that it's disbanding, but they did some move like that at end of last proleague season) and I can't tell how much woongjin is invested. Both woongjin and STX are seen as "lower money" teams as far as I can tell than teams like kt and skt who cough up those large salaries for players. Jaedong, the best zerg of all time, always had a much lower salary on hwaseung than he "could have had" with other teams.
KT and SKT also sends its players on vacations, and Samsung players always have to say how they get the new samsung products in their interviews (Stork talking about his samsung galaxy, etc). . The companies are paying the players well, have been doing so for a long time, and even use them as forms of advertisement. Even now stork is in some gaming commercial, but I can't find a vod of it.
they all have given large salaries to players. you can look up interviews recently of midas's retirement where he talks about his salaries in SKT and all. Current big name sc players have very large salaries. Most of SC2 money comes from prize money for koreans.
On December 11 2011 04:09 monXikk wrote: I just want to drop that international teams/foreigner teams spend A LOT of their money on plane tickets, BW teams dont need to do that. On top of that Korean teams are just BW, not CS+LoL+Dota+Starcraft etc like EG, fnatic, Dignitas, SK etc.
On December 11 2011 04:09 monXikk wrote: I just want to drop that international teams/foreigner teams spend A LOT of their money on plane tickets, BW teams dont need to do that. On top of that Korean teams are just BW, not CS+LoL+Dota+Starcraft etc like EG, fnatic, Dignitas, SK etc.
like every team has a special forces team too lol. SKT, KT, STX, CJ, Woongjin all have current teams in the proleague. Only samsung, ace, and team 8 don't (afaik). MBC and estro also had teams afaik (both are gone, but the mbc team got picked up as somebody. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=269488. Kespa's website lists TVing, IT Bank, and Q'Senn as the other teams, so maybe one of those is/was the MBC team? I don't know special forces.
I know someone already answered that as I looked up stuff for this post but w/e. Anyways, I also posted this in some old thread about finances of current teams, just to give some numbers:
Long post spoilered so as to not distract thread. Also I'm a scrub so my opinion isn't worth anything, but this is just compiled financial data. + Show Spoiler +
We all know the answer is simply money; anyways, let's do analysis of sponsors of current (7 + 1 brand brand new) bw teams and "why they are in esports". Useful link is here, the major corporations in south korea on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_South_Korea
spoiler is just some compiled financial data; not too relevant. just shows how large the sponsoring companies are (doesn't mean they give to the team, but they are big big companies; compared to something like primezzang or korean sc2 sponsors at this point) + Show Spoiler +
--Samsung: largest revenue company in south korea; samsung electronics is a large part --SKT (part of SK Group: Fourth largest revenue in south korea; however, sk telecom is a large part of the group regardless) --STX: 10th? largest revenue in south korea --KT: 17th largest revenue in south korea --Air Force ACE: military team; they don't really depend on sponsors the same way other teams do I imagine --CJ Group: not on first wiki link above, but their english site claims 335 billion KRW in operating revenue 2010 (~300 million USD) http://cjir.irplus.co.kr/global_eng/ir/finance/highlight.asp cj is also in list of chaebol (large conglomerate) companies in korea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol; larger than korean air chaebol --Woongjin Group: not on first wiki list, but claims 7831 (billion?) KRW assets (7 billion USD) and 247 billion KRW (222 million) income in 2010 http://www.woongjin.com/English/investment/mn_result.aspx
Teams that disbanded: wemade (Wemade entertainment, which lists 290 billion KRW (260 million USD) in total assets 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wemade_Entertainment) mbc game: mbc the media conglomerate is large (661 million USD revenue) but it is converting mbc game to a kpop channel hwaseung: this site lists some of its financial information, but I don't know if it's all of the conglomerate or just whatever this one automotive parts branch of hwaseung has is http://www.hsrna.com/eng/investment/investment1.asp
skipping that spoiler well, the above spoiler just establishes that major corporations in korea are sponsoring bw, and have been for many years (elaboration down below). 2 teams that disbanded after the last season (Wemade and hwaseung) were a bit smaller corporations. MBC game is shutting down as the overall company MBC (media network) is turning it into a kpop channel.
As far as advertising goes, hwaseung doesn't really seem to have the same type of "electronics/gaming" sector that some of the other large companies clearly have and could benefit from sponsoring ESPORTS (samsung, sk telecom, kt (another telecom company/internet), cj which does quite a bit of entertainment/media/internet in addition to their food services). Wemade is an online games company so it's a bit surprising to me they cut their team, but I guess they decided it was too costly for the benefit or were having internal problems. STX is a ship builder and woongjin is an ??? company (website said it started as educational/publication company, and now says its a holdings company)
It's no surprise that those 4 teams--sky, kt, samsung, cj--are older (all have been in their current form with same sponsorship since 2006 or older) and have always been viewed as having more "money" than the other teams. STX soul has been in the form of STX since 2004. Woongjin changed to woongjin in 2008. Air Force Ace is a special case. Hwaseung, wemade, and mbc game were comparably smaller sponsors than the other teams in the modern era (when nada was on wemade, I get the impression it may have been larger).
summary: Of the 7 current teams (not counting the brand brand new team put together),5 (skt, kt, cj, and samsung, air force ace) are pretty stable imo. Sk planet, SK Telecom's cell phone division iirc, just picked up this year's proleague after sponsorship from shinhan bank. They are sponsored by huge companies in south korea that have been sponsoring the teams for years (latest change was 2006 for CJ as far as I can tell), that all have significant shares in electronic/esports industry; air force ace also is a different type of team. The teams "at risk", in my view, are STX and Woongjin--STX had some internal problems recently (put all players up for draft; not that it's disbanding, but they did some move like that at end of last proleague season) and I can't tell how much woongjin is invested. Both woongjin and STX are seen as "lower money" teams as far as I can tell than teams like kt and skt who cough up those large salaries for players. Jaedong, the best zerg of all time, always had a much lower salary on hwaseung than he "could have had" with other teams.
KT and SKT also sends its players on vacations, and Samsung players always have to say how they get the new samsung products in their interviews (Stork talking about his samsung galaxy, etc). . The companies are paying the players well, have been doing so for a long time, and even use them as forms of advertisement. Even now stork is in some gaming commercial, but I can't find a vod of it.
they all have given large salaries to players. you can look up interviews recently of midas's retirement where he talks about his salaries in SKT and all. Current big name sc players have very large salaries. Most of SC2 money comes from prize money for koreans.
Errr. STX has always been known to pay their players well. Dunno about Woongjin but they seem to be actually trying nowadays but who knows.
Vacations are usually done for "rewards" -- ie, if they win proleague etc the team will send their players to vacations. That has been the way for a long time. They do workshops and such.
KT and SKT and Samsung do hand out devices to their players, but it's mostly to promote their newest gear.
Remember that the teams usually pay salaries for three coaches (one for each race) and a manager on top, as long as a bunch of other staff involved in the esports divisions. Also, each one of the teams has a team house on top -- EG is the only team to have anything close to what Korean BW teams have at the moment =_=
On December 11 2011 04:16 Blennd wrote: Hmm Flash says Flash made 250k last year, Milkis said Flash made 500k. Who to believe...
Flash was talking about salary only. Milkis included winnings too
And he got a big raise after lats year's SPL win
Flash won like 4 out of 6 starleagues in 2010, which is like 35K~45K a pop, and was runner up for the other two. In the end it's kind of not fair I suppose but Flash was pretty damn imba last year >_>;
Anyway it doesn't really matter anyway since in the end the BW players *will* play SC2 at some point, not because "they're tired of brood war" or "omg the SC2 PRIZE POOLS" but because the entire scene will transition to SC2. The money/sponsors will follow. Who the hell knows what will happen then since there'll be some politics to play around -_-
On December 10 2011 21:33 Fanek wrote: @RetoX you are so wrong, mvp earn a lot more than 40k $ per year. Flash 400k$ ? that will be fucking dream for him where from this numbers coming lol
According to TLPD Hydra is 신동원 which is the 2nd readable name in the top left list. No other BW pro seem to share that name.
Anyway would be surprised if CJentushydra is actually Losira. Something as fundamental as assigning 1-0 to control groups at the start of the game is not just something you change unless you actively try to disguise yourself. How often do you see pros change the way they split, the way the early-game spam, their hatch hotkeys, etc. from game to game? (A: never)
On December 10 2011 11:25 DeepBlu2 wrote: So I may look like a complete fool because I don't know how to use Sc2gears. I feel like this dosen't deserve it's own topic but here we go.
So first, I asked Forgg to which he replied, no, that is not hydra. Sage had a similar response.
I am completely sure this is not Hydra. However, I asked for a replay to compare it to and was told to compare it to Losira by 라푼젤(Rapunzel) (Credit goes to him)
This is what I found Hotkeys match but I am confused as to how sc2gears works. So please inform me if I am wrong. And if someone knows sc2gears, please inform me.
I disagree as it is something I see a lot not something necessarily repeated which is why I'm going to obtain another replay of Hydra's and do the same thing... If you are using a smurf, admit that you are hydra, but it is found that everyone on ladder like Forgg think you are lieing, the hotkeys match another pro gamer 98%...As well as the fact that whenever asked to tweet it, he refused...Also, when I told him that he was Losira after one of his games he finally replied asking "why?"...This is after I asked him 2-3 times who he was in between games, and saying he was Losira was the only thing that made him reply..
I'm going to get another replay and prove that it is Losira.
what about asking hydra on his twitter to confirm or deny it is him?
On December 10 2011 11:25 DeepBlu2 wrote: So I may look like a complete fool because I don't know how to use Sc2gears. I feel like this dosen't deserve it's own topic but here we go.
So first, I asked Forgg to which he replied, no, that is not hydra. Sage had a similar response.
I am completely sure this is not Hydra. However, I asked for a replay to compare it to and was told to compare it to Losira by 라푼젤(Rapunzel) (Credit goes to him)
This is what I found Hotkeys match but I am confused as to how sc2gears works. So please inform me if I am wrong. And if someone knows sc2gears, please inform me.
They dont match. The first guy " Hydra" Isn't using 6 AT ALL. Where Losira is using from mid game ~~
That's because the games end at different times. Check the bottom for the timer.
Hm, looks like CJEntusHydra assigns all his hotkeys, 1 through 0, at the start if I don't read the graphs wrong while Losira's in the range 1-5, I don't know if that is noteworthy; just thought I'd mention it.
Losira uses 3. "Hydra" doesn't...
Well even if he is an imposter, the last time it happened, we got MarineKing, so I'm not too worried
I don't know what you mean. They do both use 3. I'm working on getting another replay, but I'm looking at it now... I can see they both use 3... If you mean the frequency, it's because the first game ended sooner.
And to the other person, someone messaged him and he replied, but when asked to post on twitter, he refused... And he also replied to me, but only when i called him out on being Losira. They also both have the same lair timings. I'll post again when I have another replay.
Inevitably the transition for bw teams to sc2 will occur. I just hope that we don't end up with a Kespa-style league that is closed to foreigners and existing sc2 teams or really anything that creates a rift between Kespa teams and everyone else.
On December 11 2011 11:00 hasuterrans wrote: Inevitably the transition for bw teams to sc2 will occur. I just hope that we don't end up with a Kespa-style league that is closed to foreigners and existing sc2 teams or really anything that creates a rift between Kespa teams and everyone else.
Is it really fair to say Kespa-run league would be closed to foreigners ? It's probably just that foreigners in BW were, to be frank, bad (compared to the korean pros/amateurs anyway)
The hotkey maps pretty much guarantees it is LoisirA. They've been used accurately in BW to determine progamers for ages and I haven't seen matches as good as these ever be wrong. Back that up with the supporting evidence (twitter/chat responses) and there is no chance that it is Hydra. Although I can understand why people continue to believe otherwise as it is extremely appealing to think of BW pros tearing up SC2.
EPT
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