(Hope you do not even awkwardly translated English using Google Translate I had not so good. T.T)
Hi. PgR21 of Korea e-Sports community, who runs the 'kimbilly' Tell him. (Twitter: @ kimbillly)
The second day of BlizzCon 2011. GSL Championship three times each year the world's strongest player in Starcraft 2 IMMvp-IMNesTea player. With David Kim and StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm - a multiplayer experience of the new units have done. Although not the intent PgR21(?), Two players can not see immediately after the game was watched, and will try to disclose proprietary.
Now that i saw the phobia thread about swarm host and got disturbed by a couple images after watching the video a couple times, I think i have a little phobia. I'm not scared of it though, it's just that it's ugly and (especially after reading a comment) I have an urge to want to cut things like that that are disgusting and have holes in them (especially if they have weird bulges or sacs in the holes...).
Argh I want to cut those swarm host now! lol
I forgot the thor is a mass unit. Sad to see it doesn't seem to be much bigger and isn't the Odin model?
Also, the blinding cloud does dmg too? I think that overlaps with infestor too much .
lol those shredders look really really broken when put around hatches. >.> kill anything on spawn zerg can no longer make units. and for something you kill it you'd need long range.. brood lords or... brood lords.
i hope they realize how impossible that first game looked once a couple hatches got shut down.
On October 30 2011 16:51 DreamOen wrote: As I said previously , we will have to wait and see what finally survives and gets into the release HOTS version.
All we currently know right now is what Dustin Browder said in the r/starcraft interview:
What Heart of the Swarm units are at risk because they’re potentially “game breaking” in their current form?
Summary: "A lot" of the units are teetering on the edge of game-breaking right now. Says Swarm Host "works", Oracle (at least Entomb) "works", everything else he's unsure about. Most scared of the "Replicant" (not worried about balance, but eliminating units from the metagame, ie banshees leaving TvP).
I love the style of english used here, gets right to the point! Aside from that, this looks really cool! I can't wait to see some live late-game engagements in TvZ.
On October 30 2011 16:51 DreamOen wrote: As I said previously , we will have to wait and see what finally survives and gets into the release HOTS version.
All we currently know right now is what Dustin Browder said in the r/starcraft interview:
What Heart of the Swarm units are at risk because they’re potentially “game breaking” in their current form?
Summary: "A lot" of the units are teetering on the edge of game-breaking right now. Says Swarm Host "works", Oracle (at least Entomb) "works", everything else he's unsure about. Most scared of the "Replicant" (not worried about balance, but eliminating units from the metagame, ie banshees leaving TvP).
LOL the bit at the end about the rocks was hilarious!
Other than that great interview. I'm glad he's noticing how broken the Shredder looks to be and how poorly designed the Replicant is just from a concept perspective.
Honestly, I'm real glad he's one of the main developers, he really knows what he's doing.
On October 30 2011 17:18 zZygote wrote: My ears just perked when I heard him say "well, if it doesn't work I know what we'll fall back to."
Pathing doesn't work right now, maybe return BW pathing? Mothership not working, return the Arbiter?
Only I can dream, but damn, I felt good after I heard him say that. Still gives me hope!
The only part of BW pathing i'd ever want back is the way the units spaced out. thats it. i'd like the magic box concept to be implemented more seriously like in BW. i do NOT want the terrible pathing of goons back ever again.
On October 30 2011 17:18 zZygote wrote: My ears just perked when I heard him say "well, if it doesn't work I know what we'll fall back to."
Pathing doesn't work right now, maybe return BW pathing? Mothership not working, return the Arbiter?
Only I can dream, but damn, I felt good after I heard him say that. Still gives me hope!
The only part of BW pathing i'd ever want back is the way the units spaced out. thats it. i'd like the magic box concept to be implemented more seriously like in BW. i do NOT want the terrible pathing of goons back ever again.
It would be like WC3 pathing, which the same as BW, but less "buggy".
Swarm AI just doesn't work for RTS games, and I don't think they realise how much of a (positive) difference it could make to the game if they made the pathing "worse".
Amazing write up and photographs, thoroughly enjoyed it .
Although I wished someone really translated this instead of a computerscript, I can see why you did because of the amount of time you will be losing just to get the translation a little bit more accurate and understandable. But the added link to the korean text is great <3 I long for transcripts of games like that.
For anyone who wondered what this part means: IMMvp player on your way out in front yard of the headquarters and Shredder have placed the two installation situations. Swarm Host IMNesTea players are trying the Burrow. + Show Spoiler +
In my rudimentairy korean translation: IMMvp moves out to the main and natural and puts the two Shredders just outside the natural. Nestea's Swarm Hosts are trying to burrow.
Sorry if retranslating from a google translate page is insulting >.<
On October 30 2011 17:18 zZygote wrote: My ears just perked when I heard him say "well, if it doesn't work I know what we'll fall back to."
Pathing doesn't work right now, maybe return BW pathing? Mothership not working, return the Arbiter?
Only I can dream, but damn, I felt good after I heard him say that. Still gives me hope!
The only part of BW pathing i'd ever want back is the way the units spaced out. thats it. i'd like the magic box concept to be implemented more seriously like in BW. i do NOT want the terrible pathing of goons back ever again.
It would be like WC3 pathing, which the same as BW, but less "buggy".
Swarm AI just doesn't work for RTS games, and I don't think they realise how much of a (positive) difference it could make to the game if they made the pathing "worse".
they'd have to give zerglings something though as they are the only unit that positively benefits from the swarm AI taking that away would make them die too fast and be too useless in fights. though they'd take more shots to kill from tanks and collosus. i dunno.
Dustin said in the TL interview that pathing definitely will not be changed and that you can always play brood war. So really don't hope on anything on that matter.
His comment on "going back" referred to scrapping new designs/ units in hots. The units that we've seen may all end up not being in hots.. Although that isn't very realistic..
On October 30 2011 17:32 Morphs wrote: Dustin said in the TL interview that pathing definitely will not be changed and that you can always play brood war. So really don't hope on anything on that matter.
His comment on "going back" referred to scrapping new designs/ units in hots. The units that we've seen may all end up not being in hots.. Although that isn't very realistic..
I'd like to keep swarm lord and vipers cloud spell. if the pull spell is kept i'd prefer it be allied units only and a 25 energy spell. though ideally the cloud and then something non movement related, so that infestors are for movement and unit control and vipers are for siege breaking, defense, ect instead of having both units have movement spells.
Tempest's role is a must have for protoss, though i'd prefer for Interceptors to just have air splash instead of a new unit. interceptors having an air attack that does minor splash would make them seem more carrier-esque to me and fill the role of air splash, and still keep the carrier around.
the oracle i'd really like to see stay for sure as is.
Battle hellion. i see the point of and i'm fine with it. Shredder, ehhh it should deal damage to itself and cost less (like 50/25/1) so that it dies after 2-3 bursts.to incentivize macro and to prevent stupid shredder contains. and the warhound i like because i <3 goliaths
so yeah viper need a different spell instead of pull, and shredder should be cheaper and limited use (unless changelings stop it from activating, that would be cool.) and interceptors should be given small splash damage to air instead of replacing the carrier.
Shredders...holy god. I didn't realise how insane they were until I just played with them 2 minutes ago, dropped one in a mineral line and it ended up with ~70 kills from broodlings etc :D
Man that's so awesome. Also thanks for the link to the r/starcraft interview juicyjames.
I like to see that Nestea was using swarm hosts (well as if he wouldn't, gotta test out them new units). I can't wait to see what he does with them. We all know how important lurkers were in BW. Can't wait to see his majesty implement the swarm hosts in his play :D
On October 30 2011 17:18 zZygote wrote: My ears just perked when I heard him say "well, if it doesn't work I know what we'll fall back to."
Pathing doesn't work right now, maybe return BW pathing? Mothership not working, return the Arbiter?
Only I can dream, but damn, I felt good after I heard him say that. Still gives me hope!
The only part of BW pathing i'd ever want back is the way the units spaced out. thats it. i'd like the magic box concept to be implemented more seriously like in BW. i do NOT want the terrible pathing of goons back ever again.
It would be like WC3 pathing, which the same as BW, but less "buggy".
Swarm AI just doesn't work for RTS games, and I don't think they realise how much of a (positive) difference it could make to the game if they made the pathing "worse".
they'd have to give zerglings something though as they are the only unit that positively benefits from the swarm AI taking that away would make them die too fast and be too useless in fights. though they'd take more shots to kill from tanks and collosus. i dunno.
Nope they would benefit immensely. Its a major reason why Zerglings are so much more powerful against Marines in BW as flanking actually makes a difference and zerglings can get more surface area on the marines if they are caught off-guard.
This also means though that you will not just a-move them into marines, you have to pull back and forth split the marines up and then cut through the middle and then make the zerglings attack once you have got them inside the army.
Flanking would also be much more powerful in any unit vs unit counter, and open up a larger array of tactics.
I dont understand. Dustin said they had problem with the thor because its a single big unit, and SC should be more about macro. So they made it a super-unit? Wheres the logic?
On October 30 2011 16:51 DreamOen wrote: As I said previously , we will have to wait and see what finally survives and gets into the release HOTS version.
All we currently know right now is what Dustin Browder said in the r/starcraft interview:
What Heart of the Swarm units are at risk because they’re potentially “game breaking” in their current form?
Summary: "A lot" of the units are teetering on the edge of game-breaking right now. Says Swarm Host "works", Oracle (at least Entomb) "works", everything else he's unsure about. Most scared of the "Replicant" (not worried about balance, but eliminating units from the metagame, ie banshees leaving TvP).
LOL the bit at the end about the rocks was hilarious!
Other than that great interview. I'm glad he's noticing how broken the Shredder looks to be and how poorly designed the Replicant is just from a concept perspective.
Honestly, I'm real glad he's one of the main developers, he really knows what he's doing.
I facepalmed so hard at this and then I stopped and wondered if he was being sarcastic...
Anyways, I hope the new features will fit in with the current ones and not break the game or leave us with this awkward transition between WoL and HotS
On October 30 2011 19:34 Logros wrote: Haha MVP is abusing shredders so hard. Using them to hold watchtowers seems imba :O.
yep, since only units can active the towers. I really hope they don't make it into the game. Its gonna be a nightmare to balance it will either be too weak or too strong. It also encourages somewhat poor play in terms of making something then forgetting about it.
It will be at every expansion, every watch tower, dropped in the back of bases.
Forget sensor towers. Two of these outside your base will alert you of an incoming attack and keep them occupied will you can pull scvs ready to prepare.
If shredders weren't permanent until killed they wouldn't be an issue. 3 bursts is like 90 damage in a HUGE aoe, which should be the lifespan of a shredder imo
On October 30 2011 19:34 Logros wrote: Haha MVP is abusing shredders so hard. Using them to hold watchtowers seems imba :O.
yep, since only units can active the towers. I really hope they don't make it into the game. Its gonna be a nightmare to balance it will either be too weak or too strong. It also encourages somewhat poor play in terms of making something then forgetting about it.
It will be at every expansion, every watch tower, dropped in the back of bases.
Forget sensor towers. Two of these outside your base will alert you of an incoming attack and keep them occupied will you can pull scvs ready to prepare.
Hmmm, sounds like a certain other unit from a certain other game
On October 30 2011 19:34 Logros wrote: Haha MVP is abusing shredders so hard. Using them to hold watchtowers seems imba :O.
yep, since only units can active the towers. I really hope they don't make it into the game. Its gonna be a nightmare to balance it will either be too weak or too strong. It also encourages somewhat poor play in terms of making something then forgetting about it.
It will be at every expansion, every watch tower, dropped in the back of bases.
Forget sensor towers. Two of these outside your base will alert you of an incoming attack and keep them occupied will you can pull scvs ready to prepare.
Hmmm, sounds like a certain other unit from a certain other game
The shredder looks incredibly broken. Imagine a shredder drop in early/mid game into the mineral line. The zerg player has nothing but zerglings, so he cant stop it, the shredder anhilates all workers and all zerglings get roasted trying to stop it.
Shredders absolutely won't go in game at their current broken state. Browder seems attached to the idea of them though, so expect to see them around, subtly breaking the game like every other terran unit.
Am i the only one to think Dustin Browder is not fit to be a game designer ? Everything in this game seems to rely on chaos and empirical methods, like if there's no clear path or well defined philosophy since the very beginning, and as a result, it's just about adding "cool" units, and removing it when they appear to be broken (but not without trying a tons of stupid things before of course).
imagine if you wall their choke/ramp (kind of like the contain MVP set up in this game) and thrown down a couple of shredders within reach, if the zerg wants to get out he is forced to attack the depot/rax while under the Shredders AOE lol, harsh. And don't get me started on shredder drops around your hatches.
On October 30 2011 20:54 Hakanfrog wrote: The shredder looks incredibly broken. Imagine a shredder drop in early/mid game into the mineral line. The zerg player has nothing but zerglings, so he cant stop it, the shredder anhilates all workers and all zerglings get roasted trying to stop it.
You know that it has a 10 second deploy time, right?
On October 30 2011 20:54 Hakanfrog wrote: The shredder looks incredibly broken. Imagine a shredder drop in early/mid game into the mineral line. The zerg player has nothing but zerglings, so he cant stop it, the shredder anhilates all workers and all zerglings get roasted trying to stop it.
You know that it has a 10 second deploy time, right?
Didn't stop MVP from filling the map and most notably, NesTea's main with them :D
AMAZING, people are already whining BEFORE the game is released. This shows how whiny this community is, especially towards terran.
Do we see people whining about moving burrowed banelings, or the dark swarm? No. Most units look OP, but have faith in blizzard. They will patch and balance.
On October 30 2011 22:06 Snowbear wrote: AMAZING, people are already whining BEFORE the game is released. This shows how whiny this community is, especially towards terran.
Do we see people whining about moving burrowed banelings, or the dark swarm? No. Most units look OP, but have faith in blizzard. They will patch and balance.
nah we just don't want the shredders released as in where they can totally shut down a zerg by putting them next to hatches killing larva on spawn. thats really not good for the game for terran to be able to get an early factory out a siege tank and 2 shredders and then push, set up a shredder next to each hatch with siege covering and then zerg has lost. thats not a good scenerio no matter what race. if Protoss has this kind of unit people would see the flaw in it too. in fact it doesn't even matter what units are backing it up any race being able to halt unit production by it's existance is bad for the game. a couple shredders next to barracks = no more marines and then you only have to park your 5 marines left from the drop next tot he factories and kill all the tanks coming out in TvT and then there is nothing the enemy can do to come back. these scenerios aren't like tanks parked outside production, since tanks don't hit as large an AOE, or 1 shot groups of larva, (just 1), they need to be limited in some way.
Calm down guys. HotS is in its extreme infancy. There's no point whining about the numbers when they're bound to be tweaked. Please use your heads (the rational one).
How the fuck are shredders parked around hatchery different from bunch of lurkers burrowed around your barracks in BW? There are some differences (cost, detection, speed of burrowing, hitting air), but it's generally the same issue.
The shredders aren't free you now? If MVP had the same resources in marauders/tanks, those hatches may have been dead already.
This preemptive whining is even worse than whining in LR thread. All we have here are bunch of pictures from early alpha build of a game played by players with zero experience with new units. Yet it's somewhat valid base for complaints.
Looking through the pictures, all I saw was carnage and random blurry lines. Thought it was just bad image quality, and then I saw that the blurry lines were from shredders and my zerg soul died a bit
Thanks for the pictures! I couldn't see much in some of them due to the mass shredders, but then again, I doubt there is much to see when that many shredders are there for a few seconds.
well, I say the shredder should be a building in that:
1. it cannot burrow on creep 2. it cannot unburrow once burrowed 3. cannot be lifted into medivacs
result: you place them in defensive locations, as they should be, they won't kill larvae, which just seems stupid, and they won't be broken through drops. protosses over the world will agree.
you guessed it, Im zerg and biased. but im a biased zerg with a point.
also, blinding cloud should not do damage, that seems stupid too.
On October 31 2011 01:06 reptile wrote: Shredders are obviously going to need to be balanced. They're way too devastating to a Zerg economy/larva supply.
I assume it's tearing larva up because it does spell damage, so they just need to change that and it won't be any worse than a group of marines.
As far as economy, I don't think it's any worse than lurker drops were in BW, especially since the version shown at Blizzcon has a 10 second deploy time.
On October 31 2011 01:06 reptile wrote: Shredders are obviously going to need to be balanced. They're way too devastating to a Zerg economy/larva supply.
I assume it's tearing larva up because it does spell damage, so they just need to change that and it won't be any worse than a group of marines.
As far as economy, I don't think it's any worse than lurker drops were in BW, especially since the version shown at Blizzcon has a 10 second deploy time.
weren't lurkers more expensive and more easily dealt with once identified to be in your base?
On October 31 2011 01:06 reptile wrote: Shredders are obviously going to need to be balanced. They're way too devastating to a Zerg economy/larva supply.
I assume it's tearing larva up because it does spell damage, so they just need to change that and it won't be any worse than a group of marines.
As far as economy, I don't think it's any worse than lurker drops were in BW, especially since the version shown at Blizzcon has a 10 second deploy time.
weren't lurkers more expensive and more easily dealt with once identified to be in your base?
So is shredder, its range only 4 I think, since the roach barely outrange it.
TAKE OUT THE SHREDDER! Please, it seems to be completely unstoppable. Plus, what if they setup near a hatchery; zerg won't be able to make units without them blowing up.
On October 31 2011 01:06 reptile wrote: Shredders are obviously going to need to be balanced. They're way too devastating to a Zerg economy/larva supply.
I assume it's tearing larva up because it does spell damage, so they just need to change that and it won't be any worse than a group of marines.
As far as economy, I don't think it's any worse than lurker drops were in BW, especially since the version shown at Blizzcon has a 10 second deploy time.
weren't lurkers more expensive and more easily dealt with once identified to be in your base?
Lurkers were cheaper and needed detection to be dealt with effectively.
Shredder are broken.Everybody knows that.Even DB admits they are broken and OP like crazy.We just have to see how they tweak it and obviously they have to toned down its DPS and radius by a ton.
We think the "deathgrip/lifegrip" ability (for the Viper) might be a little too powerful, but we always want the units to start out a little OP so that our staff will use it and give us feedback, if we made a unit that started out UP or perfectly balanced no one will ever use it. So expect the Viper to be OP in the early testing stages and maybe brought down later.
On October 31 2011 01:28 Roblin wrote: well, I say the shredder should be a building in that:
1. it cannot burrow on creep 2. it cannot unburrow once burrowed 3. cannot be lifted into medivacs
result: you place them in defensive locations, as they should be, they won't kill larvae, which just seems stupid, and they won't be broken through drops. protosses over the world will agree.
you guessed it, Im zerg and biased. but im a biased zerg with a point.
also, blinding cloud should not do damage, that seems stupid too.
On October 31 2011 01:28 Roblin wrote: well, I say the shredder should be a building in that:
1. it cannot burrow on creep 2. it cannot unburrow once burrowed 3. cannot be lifted into medivacs
result: you place them in defensive locations, as they should be, they won't kill larvae, which just seems stupid, and they won't be broken through drops. protosses over the world will agree.
you guessed it, Im zerg and biased. but im a biased zerg with a point.
also, blinding cloud should not do damage, that seems stupid too.
Those changes seems pretty good
It's a unit not a static defense, it needs to be able to burrow, unburrow and be redeployed or it won't be worth the resource or food cost. I don't think it should be able to burrow on creep though.
On October 31 2011 02:32 Silky wrote: TAKE OUT THE SHREDDER! Please, it seems to be completely unstoppable. Plus, what if they setup near a hatchery; zerg won't be able to make units without them blowing up.
On October 31 2011 02:32 Silky wrote: TAKE OUT THE SHREDDER! Please, it seems to be completely unstoppable. Plus, what if they setup near a hatchery; zerg won't be able to make units without them blowing up.
How does it feel now that Terran has the lurker?
I lol'd really . Hmm I assume there are no videos of MVP and NesTea?
Also has Blizzard announced an ETA on when the HotS beta will start?
On October 30 2011 16:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: wow shredders massed up haha wow xD
Nestea probably not happy about this xD
Now that i saw the phobia thread about swarm host and got disturbed by a couple images after watching the video a couple times, I think i have a little phobia. I'm not scared of it though, it's just that it's ugly and (especially after reading a comment) I have an urge to want to cut things like that that are disgusting and have holes in them (especially if they have weird bulges or sacs in the holes...).
Argh I want to cut those swarm host now! lol
I forgot the thor is a mass unit. Sad to see it doesn't seem to be much bigger and isn't the Odin model?
Also, the blinding cloud does dmg too? I think that overlaps with infestor too much .
Yay, wish i have never seen that video and post.. Ive never had problems with those things and once i know something like this exists im going through placebo effect... I feel ya bro i feel ya.
Otherwise shredder is just a silly thing. I think(hope) it will not get to the final product
The shredder looks like a lot of fun to me I can't wait till I can try it. IMO there's 2 things we need to remember.
1: That this is the beta and they're just trying fun/interesting units that may not even make it into the game.
2: We unfortunately do not have any vods of this game so we don't know if somebody was telling them what to build or if they were just messing around. I think they were just trying the new units. From what i can tell NesTea was building swarm lords and lings mostly. Even with the Viper reducing range lings would bet owned by battle hellions and the thor. I bet MVP walked in with his army and deployed the shredders and walked out. So we really don't know the weaknesses of the shredder just yet until we see how the other units play against it.
On November 01 2011 03:17 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: 1: That this is the beta and they're just trying fun/interesting units that may not even make it into the game.
Alpha, actually.
As a point of reference, WoL's alpha had the Tempest(DT carrier with hardened shields, not the storm launcher), soul hunter, reaver, lurker, super thor, etc.
On November 01 2011 03:17 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: 1: That this is the beta and they're just trying fun/interesting units that may not even make it into the game.
Alpha, actually.
As a point of reference, WoL's alpha had the Tempest(DT carrier with hardened shields, not the storm launcher), soul hunter, reaver, lurker, super thor, etc.
yes alpha my bad. The point still applies I believe, but that shows they're just trying stuff. They do want a fun game and a good expansion so I think they'll try some crazy things.
people dont realize in any certain circumstance, every unit has the potential to be a little OP...and that's ok...
Watching a bunch of mediocre units pillow fight with each other because the community whined the potential of a good game away will not grow this game or make it fun to play.
It is comparable to BW in this way, as there are counters to each specific "situationally OP" unit..except bw balanced the other units around specific units, instead of raping them until they were just not worth getting. It's the superior way to make a game, unfortunately with the inherent mechanic and AI and UI changes, this might not be possible...
But please, don't tell them to nerf things you have no idea about. Sorry but nobody here knows enough about the relationships between units at this very moment to grab their pitchforks and make another blizzard game that could be a worthy predecessor into a girls sleepover party. Stop complaining, it's the reason Dustin is hesitant to do anything outside of the "make lower leagues happy" box.
What I got out of the comments in this thread: Blizzard states none of the units are balanced yet, people complain that the units aren't balanced. Lmao wtf?
Chill out people, wait until beta before starting balance discussions.
On November 01 2011 04:06 DreamRaider wrote: shredder denying tumor spread, grabbing watch towers, and killing larva. No doubt that the shredder will have a nerf.
The mech battle in the first map looks so messy, like its like random unit compositions in my eyes
No shit. Because even the "best" players in the world are just playing a game for the first times with completely new units that even they do not know what is the best thing to use them for yet or which scenarios.
People shouldn't base hard opinions on any of the stuff shown/seen yet, we all can only speculate. It's better to give feedback on the design of the unit than thinking something is OP or underpowered, because none of us can know that for sure.
Here is the difference on how to give feedback, and how to simply bash on your keyboard with your head and QQ:
Constructive feedback on the shredder: It looks like it'll be good for possible map control, but deploy times will prob have to be looked at otherwise it can turn into something that just gets dropped into mineral lines too easily instead of being the unit that's supposed to help provide map control.
Maybe instead of being a permanent fixture/unit, they could cost reduce the price and make it have 3 limited bursts (but more damage in burst like mine since it's not forever) to act more like a spider mine than a permanent psi storm. Maybe test it literally being burrowed into the ground as well.
Bad feedback / premature balance whining: Shredder looks OP as fuck! Blizzard needs to nerf this. MVP used it in a sample size of one game! U drop this in mineral line it just obliterates everything, they just need to take this out, Terran is going to be too strong. Terran has too much shit, why do they need this, needs to be nerfed.
See the difference? First one comments more on the design and functionality of the unit giving possible ideas on how the unit could be tweaked in development.
The second one is 95% of the other shredder thread whining out their ass about a unit that has not even hit beta testing.
Visually the vipers make zerg look more deathbally. Just a large pool of writing brown blobs with with chinese dragons flying over the top of it to obscure the brown blobs.
Meanwhile the terran army looks like a junk yard with old cars and refrigerators and stuff piled on top of one another, and flames randomly spewing out from the circumference of the ball. And of course a big haze over the top of the whole mess from the viper's cloud ability. The terran army is basically a giant mobile tire fire.
I don't know about game play, but HotS looks uglier than WoL.
On October 30 2011 20:54 Hakanfrog wrote: The shredder looks incredibly broken. Imagine a shredder drop in early/mid game into the mineral line. The zerg player has nothing but zerglings, so he cant stop it, the shredder anhilates all workers and all zerglings get roasted trying to stop it.
You know that it has a 10 second deploy time, right?
Oh, so like a spine crawler, except it hits every unit in range simultaneously and can set up anywhere, not just on creep. Plus by the look of it it moves way the hell faster.
That sounds like something I'd sure as hell be willing to spend 150 gas on... but that's mostly because it sure as hell doesn't sound balanced.
On October 30 2011 20:54 Hakanfrog wrote: The shredder looks incredibly broken. Imagine a shredder drop in early/mid game into the mineral line. The zerg player has nothing but zerglings, so he cant stop it, the shredder anhilates all workers and all zerglings get roasted trying to stop it.
You know that it has a 10 second deploy time, right?
Oh, so like a spine crawler, except it hits every unit in range simultaneously and can set up anywhere, not just on creep. Plus by the look of it it moves way the hell faster.
That sounds like something I'd sure as hell be willing to spend 150 gas on... but that's mostly because it sure as hell doesn't sound balanced.
you can go play around with it, its on custom map just search hots
On November 01 2011 08:55 konadora wrote: and seriously, they need to change how to warhound looks. the more i look at it, the more CnC-ish this game looks :/
Warhounds look like a failed "SCV with guns" design to me. The cockpit part really resembles the SCV and the legs are just plain silly. Since it's sorta obvious that the Warhound will fill a role similar to Goliaths they should have used a skin that resembles the Goliath more. Heck, even the merc Goliaths from the WoL campaign would be a better idea that this... thing.
Also, I'm feeling kinda sad knowing that the Shredder probably won't make it in. Or at least nerfed to near uselesness. So what if it's unfair if I frogleap 30 of these badboys and make no army? At least I'm not thinking of simply dropping your main with them... I am now though.
Let's wait till we have an estimated release date and see what they left us to play around with, and let's wait till the release of LotV to see what kind of blatantly imba units we terrans get to keep haha.
I like the concept of Shredders. They should balance them somehow without overnerfing them. And I hope they don't make some cop-out counters like Immortals are to Siege Tanks...
On October 30 2011 16:45 PrinceXizor wrote: lol those shredders look really really broken when put around hatches. >.> kill anything on spawn zerg can no longer make units. and for something you kill it you'd need long range.. brood lords or... brood lords.
i hope they realize how impossible that first game looked once a couple hatches got shut down.
Why does Terran need more 'map control' when they already have Planetary Fortress and Siege Tanks? Browder compares them to the Vulture in BW but the more apt comparison would be a Spider Mine seeing as how it doesn't look like their intention is for the Shredder to run around and destroy enemy workers everywhere. And if it's a Spider Mine, I would argue that Terran does not need it at this point in time and has plenty of good ways to harass already so they don't even need a unit to fill in for the Vulture.
This is all besides the fact that the unit in its current incarnation is just stupidly OP and if they made it not OP, it will probably just suck and be worthless. In other words, they need to scrap the idea.
On October 30 2011 17:18 zZygote wrote: My ears just perked when I heard him say "well, if it doesn't work I know what we'll fall back to."
Pathing doesn't work right now, maybe return BW pathing? Mothership not working, return the Arbiter?
Only I can dream, but damn, I felt good after I heard him say that. Still gives me hope!
The only part of BW pathing i'd ever want back is the way the units spaced out. thats it. i'd like the magic box concept to be implemented more seriously like in BW. i do NOT want the terrible pathing of goons back ever again.
It would be like WC3 pathing, which the same as BW, but less "buggy".
Swarm AI just doesn't work for RTS games, and I don't think they realise how much of a (positive) difference it could make to the game if they made the pathing "worse".
they'd have to give zerglings something though as they are the only unit that positively benefits from the swarm AI taking that away would make them die too fast and be too useless in fights. though they'd take more shots to kill from tanks and collosus. i dunno.
They could give zerglings the sick dps they had in Brood War.
I really don't like the fact that shredders hit EVERYTHING instead of just a single unit at a time like a spine or cannon (the static defense for the other races). Yes it cost food but a perma attack with such a short time between bursts is a little much, even if they decrease the dmg.
Also, I hadn't even considered the use for towers. The ultimate tower holding device. No longer can zerg send lings or protoss zealots or any race just workers to hold towers when these are on the field.
On November 01 2011 04:39 galivet wrote: Visually the vipers make zerg look more deathbally. Just a large pool of writing brown blobs with with chinese dragons flying over the top of it to obscure the brown blobs.
Meanwhile the terran army looks like a junk yard with old cars and refrigerators and stuff piled on top of one another, and flames randomly spewing out from the circumference of the ball. And of course a big haze over the top of the whole mess from the viper's cloud ability. The terran army is basically a giant mobile tire fire.
I don't know about game play, but HotS looks uglier than WoL.
that's because you are not a zerg :p personally I think the zerg looks a lot better with the new units, terran's warhound looks bad but the rest seems ok, toss new units I like the most actually
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Thanks for posting nonetheless.
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