BW Teams playing Starcraft 2 - Page 85

On October 29 2011 14:14 seraphe wrote:
Things like auto-mining, MBS, those are all fine. What I have a problem with is large control groups, which inevitably lead to huge death ball battles, as we've all pretty much agreed on already, and the removal of intense micro requiring units in favor of units that are far less so.

You ask if it's watching pros send workers to mine that's interesting. Nope. It's units that are skill-intensive and high-reward that are fun to watch. Things like reaver harass and storm drops. I know the reaver wouldn't have fit into SC2 very well, because it relied on a buggy AI to balance out its ridiculous damage. But you'd think that they'd implement a substitute that also required a high level of attention, care, and micro to use properly. Instead, you just get colossi, which are the epitome of ball of death lasers pewpew a-move. I won't miss watching Bisu send probes to mine, but I sure as hell will miss him destroy worker lines with fantastic reaver/shuttle play (or lose his shuttle and make us all facepalm).

Likewise with storms, smartcast made it so that storms became easier to use. Just mass HT and they can all rapidly cast storms in succession over a huge area so nobody would ever be able to dodge out of it. So storms themselves had to be nerfed to compensate. Less damage, less aoe, and as a result, less exciting. Landing one means almost nothing. People screamed for Jangbi's fantastic storms because they were devastatingly destructive, ridiculously hard to pull off, and utterly game changing. I don't think anyone will ever cry STOOOOOOORRRRMMMUUUUUUU for the storms in SC2. There's just not as much excitement or tension there.

So yeah. You're right about it being good that unnecessary handicaps were removed. But exchanging units that truly benefited the most from micro skills for a-move units, or dumbing units and spell-casting down and consequently having to nerf them to compensate? I have a problem with that.

On October 29 2011 14:24 bigbeau wrote:
The difference between auto injecting and auto mining is so fucking clear that anyone arguing they are similar is fucking retarded. Auto mine: You're telling a worker to go to a mineral patch. Much like telling a worker to move somewhere, right clicking on a mineral patch causes it to mine. It's a worker. It mines. If you right click a marine onto a mineral patch, it walks to it and stops next to it. If you right click a worker onto a mineral patch, it mines. What is rally point setting? The same command as right clicking all the units that come out and telling them to go to that point. Lets go back now. What happens when you right click a worker onto a mineral patch? Oh yeah, it mines. Not automining makes no sense and is not comparable to auto inject or auto creep spread. Shut up about it.

On October 29 2011 14:28 roymarthyup wrote:



then why not allow queens to SHIFT-QUEUE injects on a hatchery?


if you inject+shift+inject a hatchery the queen will stand there doing nothing until the timer runs out on the hatchery and it can inject again

On October 29 2011 14:35 bigbeau wrote:



...Are you actually arguing this? Because if you can't complete a queued task, it moves on to the next one, which is stop...Like if you tell 100 lings to attack rocks then queue them to move somewhere else, the ones that aren't able to attack the rock will move to where you told them. You're arguing for ridiculously easy things that don't fit the current mechanics of the game just to say that automining shouldn't be in the game even though it fits what the game already does, which is set buildings' rally points to all 'right click command' where you tell them

On October 29 2011 14:21 mnck wrote:


Yes it was, and it was fixed by map makers. In SC2 Blizzard attempts to fix the game via patches. Besides, as you mention, the last BW patch was in 2001, the exansion came out in '98. That's 3 years of patching or at least Blizzard trying to balance the game. Sure its not very frequent patching (only very few patches since release), but that isn't exactly a argument for better balance.

And even many years after people were still questioning balance... Like iloveoov dominating so hard people were asking whether the game was balanced or not. Turns out it could also be fixed with maps and new strategies, just like all other imbalances in the past. I think we're seeing the exact same in SC2... I would appreciate if Blizzard patched the game less frequently however. Give players a more chance to fix balance issues themselves.

On October 29 2011 14:42 ScoutingDrone wrote:
Since many people are saying BW is "better" because it is "harder" to play, I suggest Blizzard patch BW so that each control group can hold max 1 unit instead of 12, remove rally points from all production buildings, and remove the ability to automatically attack ("a" attack) so they have to manually right click on every unit to attack.

This would definitely increase the "skill ceiling" for BW, thus making BW a better game.

On October 29 2011 14:35 bigbeau wrote:



...Are you actually arguing this? Because if you can't complete a queued task, it moves on to the next one, which is stop...Like if you tell 100 lings to attack rocks then queue them to move somewhere else, the ones that aren't able to attack the rock will move to where you told them. You're arguing for ridiculously easy things that don't fit the current mechanics of the game just to say that automining shouldn't be in the game even though it fits what the game already does, which is set buildings' rally points to all 'right click command' where you tell them

On October 29 2011 14:48 mansa wrote:



Then I suggest we also make SC2 easier by putting toggle to build units automatically? BW is a better game for us not because its harder to play but because its more fun for us BW "elitist/fanboi" to play or watch.

SC2 and BW is a different game. The only resemblance I could see from both is the name and they're both RTS.

I feel like I got troll baited

On October 29 2011 14:50 IndridCold wrote:
well this is interesting to see some anonymous interviews with BW coaches i assume or something. While i feel for the BW fans that their game seems to being pushed down by the new thing, which is never cool. As a sc2 fan i'm super excited. I've never seen all these bw stars in action, i was someone who didn't know what e-sports was until wc3 and never saw BW more than just browsing results every now and then. So the possibility of seeing some of the big BW players against the current sc2 players really excites me.

Imagine the excitement from both communities when Nesstea and flash face off for the first time in sc2. Be it a championship or some random youtube video of a ladder match. I know alot of the BW players and fans don't like sc2 and the things its changed making the game easier. But isn't it about the players you like? If Flash was in the GSL championship against Nesstea i have a hard time believing anyone who was a fan of flash would be upset that he was playing sc2 and they would just cheer for him to win.


At this point it seems like a dream but wouldn't it be a beautiful thing to see the boom of e-sports in the west with sc2 and the loyalty and the devotion of the BW scene to join together to create something globally like what happened in Korea with BW.


I have respect for both sides of the fence and have even watched some BW since sc2 came out to see it for myself (it was pretty cool, i watched fantasy beat stork? i think) i'd love the insight and loyalty of that community to be behind sc2, i think the only way that would ever happen was to get the BW stars into gsl booths, and MLG booths and playing all over the world, where you guys could go out to MLG Chicago or something and see Jaedong vs Flash live in front of your face. If I were a fan, that'd be a dream come true, and i see that, sc2 is an avenue for that to become a reality.

Just my opinion flame me if you must =(

On October 29 2011 14:55 sluggaslamoo wrote:


Its a good point, Flash vs Nestea SC2 showmatch would be pretty interesting. However I'm one of those that think SC2 won't bring out Flash's full potential. He will be really good, but I'm not sure he would have the same passion he had for BW, which might make a massive difference. Even for Jaedong, what is Jaedong without muta micro?

That said if Flash does have the same devotion he will be even more unstoppable, as SC2 caters exactly to his strengths of metagaming, cheese, perfect reactionary counters, timings and strategy.

I mean at a certain stage it felt like he completely broke BW when he 3:0'd Jaedong like he was nothing, even when the top 10 was full of Zergs and not a lot of Terrans. It was a complete snore-fest. Who knows, he could completely break SC2 and make it completely boring, or Blizzard nerfs the hell out of his race, which may also ruin the game. jk

On October 29 2011 13:58 Oktyabr wrote:


You're confusing decision making and mechanical difficulty. I give up.

On October 29 2011 16:18 Cyrox wrote:
Consider that all the greats have pretty much unparallelled multitasking. Jaedong, Flash, Bisu.
Then consider the macro is like WC3, lol.

How will they be able to differentiate themselves ? The game exists not out of love for eSports and RTS but only to make money for activision.

On October 29 2011 16:18 Cyrox wrote:
Consider that all the greats have pretty much unparallelled multitasking. Jaedong, Flash, Bisu.
Then consider the macro is like WC3, lol.

How will they be able to differentiate themselves ? The game exists not out of love for eSports and RTS but only to make money for activision.