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On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.)
Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D
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Please stop comparing SC1 and SC2... SC2 is only about a year or so old whereas SC1 is decades old. It's like comparing the knowledge of a 10 year old to a 1 year old. Unfair.
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On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was.
But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted.
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On October 29 2011 05:42 ShootingStars wrote:
Please stop comparing SC1 and SC2... SC2 is only about a year or so old whereas SC1 is decades old. It's like comparing the knowledge of a year old to a 1 year old. Unfair.
Well no, its not.
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On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D
Even being a MVP fan, I'll have to disagree with you. He's close, but he doesn't out-macro Bomber and he doesn't out-micro MKP.
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+ Show Spoiler +Flash... Really!?!?! OMG!!!! <3 <3 <3 If this is true, well... ... ... .. .. .. .. .. . .. . .. . It is true  Would be amazing to see him in SC2 0.o
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On October 29 2011 05:39 BroodWarHD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:34 TheGlassface wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Because they never used any strategy, at all, in BW right? I don't understand this argument. Unit comps existed in BW too, and they mattered. Look, it is what the focus is on. In SC2 with 1-1-1 push you got all these different unit comp options tank vs hellion, viking vs banshee etc, and possibilities togo for. so the strategy is how you combine them, what build order, tech labs etc. its a game about strategy, and sc2 is wonderful because of that.
Ok, I highly doubt the focus in Korea pro gamer houses is APM.
Acting like in BW they only succeeded because of mechanics and pretending like they had no idea on the various comps, unit "counters", build orders, map variances on said build orders, etc is about as laughable as it gets.
"it's a game about strategy.."
Right...I understand. So is BW. What's your point?
I mean...what is this even?
In TvP you had several kinds of pushes available to you with various groupings of upgrades, amount, tanks/gols/vult, etc and then you had DTs, Reavers, Mass goons, spirit toss, etc, etc.
So...what in the hell were you even saying?
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On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Not sure that is a skill, and not sure why you wouldn't still be binding units/buildings in all those numbers. 1-5 units, 6 raxes, 7 facts/ports, 8 ebays, 9-0 cc's.
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Fair enough.
Being able to drag and click units very fast
Marine splitting? Spreading armies out from balling up? Splitting out banelings to go for different groups of marines as the terran player splits?
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
Controlling an army with one hotkey would be awful. Everyone complains about balling up, yet most pro's still use just 2 or 3 army hotkeys instead of 4-5+.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
MBS point is good. Dragging units is till a very useful skill in a number of extremely important situations.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players,
That all falls under the catgeory of mechanics. Now instead of having to use that APM to click through buildings to make stuff they will be using it for more drops, better army control, better splitting, etc. Not to mention the level of strategic depth, understanding and practice dealing with timings, gamesense, etc that will carry over from BW.
The BW skill-set definitely transfers pretty well to SC2. BW legends may or may not dominate immediately, but you can bet they will be crazy good after some time playing.
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On October 29 2011 05:37 PrinceXizor wrote:the article said they'd been practicing for weeks. so i dunno possible this was one of the later teams to start, but mroe than likely they had thei own accounts and these are fakes based on the rumor of this news.
Sure, i agree but still, you can look at hyvaa's profile (STX player) he has few games in season 2 platinum league, season 3 there is nothing and season 4 suddenly top master. Same goes with midas (WeMadeFOX player)
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On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D On October 29 2011 05:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:39 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 TheGlassface wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Because they never used any strategy, at all, in BW right? I don't understand this argument. Unit comps existed in BW too, and they mattered. Look, it is what the focus is on. In SC2 with 1-1-1 push you got all these different unit comp options tank vs hellion, viking vs banshee etc, and possibilities togo for. so the strategy is how you combine them, what build order, tech labs etc. its a game about strategy, and sc2 is wonderful because of that. did you seriously just use the 1-1-1 as an example of something wonderful about sc2? erm.
dont get me wrong, micro & macro is still something you must do in sc2, but you dont need to grind for 14 hours a day just to keep in shape like sc1.. so you can focus on the strategy part of the game, which is wonderful
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Pretty exciting and sad at the same time. I would hate to see BW die or be hurt, but I can't hide my excitement for someone like Jaedong/Flash/Bisu playing this little game.
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France12771 Posts
On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D
Mvp's micro is overrated.
As well as TOP's macro. But Bomber has really great macro, hard to know who has the best macro without knowing personally the players I guess
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On October 29 2011 04:51 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 04:32 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 29 2011 04:27 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Mechanics aside, MSL prelim games are just more entertaining to watch than the GSL Finals.... I just don't see sc2 lasting more than 2-3 years after LoV is out. Engagements in BW are just more... epic. Units are spread over multiple screens, and they just dont die as fast, giving players time to micro and dance with what they have. Plus the unit's themselves are just so perfect. I dunno how blizzard came up with them, but its pure genius... Its going to be hard to replicate that kind of magic again (they have come close with sc2, but it just isn't there yet). To all hardcore sc2 fans that say "just BW die already":Do me a favor and show me an sc2 game (or even a one minute clip) that has this kind of finesse and excitement. I wanna see more of this. Sure MPK can micro his marines against blings, but besides that there is very little crazy kinds of engagements that have you on the edge of your seat while watching. I haven't seen this before... It's so beatiful... I miss my goons Thansk for bringing this to me. Makes me miss BW oh so much. NP, but uuh "miss BW"?? BW hasn't gone anywhere.. Just wait like a couple weeks and proleague and OSL will be back in full swing (if all goes well)
Hm but I prefer english casts so much compared to koreans. And in addition i think i can remember they play at times that do not suit very well to mine as i am CET.
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On October 29 2011 05:43 TheGlassface wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:39 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 TheGlassface wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Because they never used any strategy, at all, in BW right? I don't understand this argument. Unit comps existed in BW too, and they mattered. Look, it is what the focus is on. In SC2 with 1-1-1 push you got all these different unit comp options tank vs hellion, viking vs banshee etc, and possibilities togo for. so the strategy is how you combine them, what build order, tech labs etc. its a game about strategy, and sc2 is wonderful because of that. Ok, I highly doubt the focus in Korea pro gamer houses is APM. Acting like in BW they only succeeded because of mechanics and pretending like they had no idea on the various comps, unit "counters", build orders, map variances on said build orders, etc is about as laughable as it gets. "it's a game about strategy.." Right...I understand. So is BW. What's your point? I mean...what is this even? In TvP you had several kinds of pushes available to you with various groupings of upgrades, amount, tanks/gols/vult, etc and then you had DTs, Reavers, Mass goons, spirit toss, etc, etc. So...what in the hell were you even saying?
He's saying that the emphasis has switched (I.E. the mechanics required to execute strategies are lower so being better at the strategic side is more important) and thus this element of the game becomes more important. He is not saying that BW has "no strategy" (although I understand your frustration since this argument has been made before). You can disagree, but its hardly malicious.
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I hope Blizz starts doing work to sc2 so the skill gap grows to be as big as it was in bw (although a lot of that skill cap was purely because of MBS and smartcasting, automining etc.
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On October 29 2011 05:45 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D Mvp's micro is overrated. As well as TOP's macro. But Bomber has really great macro, hard to know who has the best macro without knowing personally the players I guess
I actually think TOP's macro is really good, but it's hard to tell at times because he keeps losing units to his poor micro.
... TOP's macro is really the only thing he has going for him, poor kid.
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On October 29 2011 05:40 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Then what are SC2 fans are supposed to say exactly? "glad brood war is dieing" is foul "its sad that brood war is dieing" is foul as well. Btw you can't say don't talk about it at all cause we all know its simply a to big topic considering what the thread is about. Of course if its those that are known as you say its clearly false but what about the others? We are in some serious generalizations here.
I didn't tell you to say anything. I was just defending someone who got strawmanned for things he didn't mean nor say.
If you read my post, all I was saying is that there are a lot of people acting sympathetic saying "Oh, it's sad to see BW dying" and then a whole bunch of stuff about how excited they are and that it makes certain people angry. I didn't say don't say it. I didn't even say that it was foul, so you misinterpreted what I wrote.
Also, what are you trying to say. Your second half, seriously, made absolutely no sense.
On October 29 2011 05:38 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Or they like both games but just prefer sc2 now and can live without BW because they have replaced it. That does not mean they are not fans or have fond memories of BW. Ignore them and go lament with eachother if you can't handle someone being optimistic for their game of choice.
Why is this turning ad hominem when all I was doing was explaining how you're just blatantly inferring from someone's post things that he didn't even say?
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On October 29 2011 05:45 ReturnStroke wrote:
Pretty exciting and sad at the same time. I would hate to see BW die or be hurt, but I can't hide my excitement for someone like Jaedong/Flash/Bisu playing this little game.
Little game? Isn't SC2 already bigger then brood war? I think it is.
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On October 29 2011 05:39 BroodWarHD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:34 TheGlassface wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Because they never used any strategy, at all, in BW right? I don't understand this argument. Unit comps existed in BW too, and they mattered. Look, it is what the focus is on. In SC2 with 1-1-1 push you got all these different unit comp options tank vs hellion, viking vs banshee etc, and possibilities togo for. so the strategy is how you combine them, what build order, tech labs etc. its a game about strategy, and sc2 is wonderful because of that.
This is the argument I am tired of.
There is GREAT strategic depth in SC2. Their is GREAT strategic depth in BW. One game reall, really isn't more about strategy more than the other. I get so tired of the BW = mechanics, SC2 = strategy argument. Top BW players all have great mechanics, and at that level it all comes down to strategy and control; just like in SC2.
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On October 29 2011 05:45 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D Mvp's micro is overrated. As well as TOP's macro. But Bomber has really great macro, hard to know who has the best macro without knowing personally the players I guess
if you understand how mvp micros - taking marine tank ghost TvZ as an example - you'd know that his micro is actually untouchable by any other terran in the world. mkp used to be the king of splits but many people have become better than him at his own art, including mvp.
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EPT
