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On October 29 2011 05:58 HydroOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore. Freaking old? Nada is 26, Boxer is 31. In what world is this "freaking old"? Are you one of those people that thinks their hands slow down or something?
In the BW world, where the oldest SL winner was 23, yeah, that's very old.
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On October 29 2011 05:57 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:49 Boonbag wrote:
i'm not sure how this influx of extraordinary players will impact sc2
it could lead to very boring games, just like mvp vs nestea are
Yeah I hate watching the best players play too.
200 supply armies colliding with 14 k banked isn't exactly terribly exciting
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On October 29 2011 05:34 TheGlassface wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Because they never used any strategy, at all, in BW right? I don't understand this argument. Unit comps existed in BW too, and they mattered.
Agreed, however I think a lot of SC2 pros are lazy when it comes to micro. I think the skill cap is MUCH higher than we've seen aside from rare glimpses (interestingly usually in Terran with drop multitasking). I think the deathball is rarely the ideal unit formation, except for protoss due to the colossus which is admittedly a very boring unit. (And no, I'm not terran biassed, but they seem to be the main ones doing drops, and zerg isn't quite doing that so much, it's usually doom drop, baneling bomb or not dropping as zerg it seems).
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On October 29 2011 05:58 HydroOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore. Freaking old? Nada is 26, Boxer is 31. In what world is this "freaking old"? Are you one of those people that thinks their hands slow down or something?
There's a reason why older players phase out. It happens in every sport, and it'll be true in e-sports too.
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On October 29 2011 05:56 PredY wrote:i'm certain players like flash or jaedong will push the game to the limits and will provide a lot of exciting games with a lot of micro, macro, positioning and crazy situations, but blizzard needs to listen to them. if they say something is wrong, they need to fucking act and not say "but the game has to be friendly to noobs". if they say the marauder is imbalanced or badly design, they need to act, i dont think they would anyway 
Word bro, besides.. the noobs that blizz boys are catering to area already dead playing other games while those who have endured aren't noobs or really good fan boys of the game.
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This sucks big time.. I have almost stopped watching SC2 game vods only after a year.. I have watched BW games for years and it never gets old... there is a sense of awe and absolutely incredulity when you watch top BW pros go at each other in high stakes situations.. maybe coz BW is such a difficult game to master but these guys make it look so easy... that will NEVER happen in SC2 at least imho.....
and it's sad it may all end soon
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On October 29 2011 05:58 HydroOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore. Freaking old? Nada is 26, Boxer is 31. In what world is this "freaking old"? Are you one of those people that thinks their hands slow down or something?
... oh hi newbie. Can you go and check their careers? and how far they span back? and maybe, if you have time, how their stats have plummeted over time in BW?
because clearly, NOTHING could change with age, huh?
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...i am ambivalent? While I don't mind seeing people switch over, I don't really feel that its necessary if it costs BW its better players
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On October 29 2011 05:59 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:58 HydroOwl wrote:On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore. Freaking old? Nada is 26, Boxer is 31. In what world is this "freaking old"? Are you one of those people that thinks their hands slow down or something? There's a reason why older players phase out. It happens in every sport, and it'll be true in e-sports too.
It happens in other sports because their bodies can't perform at the same physical level. There's no reason why it has to happen in esports, especially to a 26 year old. It's not like his hands are slow or something. As long as the dedication and practice are still there, I don't see why he can't succeed.
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On October 29 2011 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:52 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:48 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 Assirra wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Then what are SC2 fans are supposed to say exactly? "glad brood war is dieing" is foul "its sad that brood war is dieing" is foul as well. Btw you can't say don't talk about it at all cause we all know its simply a to big topic considering what the thread is about. Of course if its those that are known as you say its clearly false but what about the others? We are in some serious generalizations here. I didn't tell you to say anything. I was just defending someone who got strawmanned for things he didn't mean nor say. If you read my post, all I was saying is that there are a lot of people acting sympathetic saying "Oh, it's sad to see BW dying" and then a whole bunch of stuff about how excited they are and that it makes certain people angry. I didn't say don't say it. I didn't even say that it was foul, so you misinterpreted what I wrote. Also, what are you trying to say. Your second half, seriously, made absolutely no sense. On October 29 2011 05:38 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Or they like both games but just prefer sc2 now and can live without BW because they have replaced it. That does not mean they are not fans or have fond memories of BW. Ignore them and go lament with eachother if you can't handle someone being optimistic for their game of choice. Why is this turning ad hominem when all I was doing was explaining how you're just blatantly inferring from someone's post things that he didn't even say? Because he did say everything I implied he said and then you supported his opinion about all the sc2 posters etc. But w/e. Some people can only see one side of things. Gl thread How am I supporting his opinion about all SC2 posters when I specifically called you out for strawmanning his argument? If you can find a SINGLE post where I bash the SC2 side of the forum then I'll rescind all my comments. You'll see that I've only made slight jabs at players at and the game, so stop acting all high and mighty when I haven't had a single negative thing to say about SC2 posters. If anything, you're one sided for not even acknowledging that he has a point. The fact that I took NO stance in his argument and instead just reiterated it so that YOU could understand what he was talking about shows how ignorant you're being.
On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity.
What point does that serve beyond trolling sc2 and insulted sc2 "kids"?
And the end of your paragraph "it gets ugly" is the issue I had with it. Does someone need to write a large speech on why they are sad for BW and happy for sc2? If you can't handle the fact they are more happy then sad and are still posting then don't read it I guess. Perhaps I was a bit harsh of your post but his post had nothing beneficial at all to any argument imo.
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If this is true i wonder how they will do riiiimed 
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On October 29 2011 05:51 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:48 mGMUSE wrote:On October 29 2011 05:45 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D Mvp's micro is overrated. As well as TOP's macro. But Bomber has really great macro, hard to know who has the best macro without knowing personally the players I guess if you understand how mvp micros - taking marine tank ghost TvZ as an example - you'd know that his micro is actually untouchable by any other terran in the world. mkp used to be the king of splits but many people have become better than him at his own art, including mvp. Just watch his games against NesTea or DongRaeGu. Mvp's micro is not that great. About MKP's micro, dunno ask people living in korea how good or bad his micro is, they know better.
I think MKP's overrated in his overall play, but it's hard to deny that he has the best micro.
With Zerg, though, I think we can all agree that nobody's hit the skill ceiling for that race yet, esp. after NesTea's horrible game against MVP at Blizzcon.
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On October 29 2011 06:01 Keone wrote:
because clearly, NOTHING could change with age, huh?
I don't really want to join in this discussion - I feel like the metaphorical can of worms has been opened and the worms are currently slithering over all my enthusiasm for ESPORTS.
However, remember to take into consideration that it is possible that Boxer/Nada etc have not gotten worse: the newer generation has just been better. Has their handspeed deteriorated, or have they become "bad"? It's possible, but don't be close-minded about it. That leads to even worse arguments than the one you're having now.
EDIT: As someone below me pointed out, it may be the slowly dropping enthusiasm for BW that made the old legends worse. Surely this wouldn't have any impact when they switch to SC2, especially considering how enthusiastic Boxer seemed about a new Starcraft game in interviews not long after release.
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On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:52 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:48 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 Assirra wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Then what are SC2 fans are supposed to say exactly? "glad brood war is dieing" is foul "its sad that brood war is dieing" is foul as well. Btw you can't say don't talk about it at all cause we all know its simply a to big topic considering what the thread is about. Of course if its those that are known as you say its clearly false but what about the others? We are in some serious generalizations here. I didn't tell you to say anything. I was just defending someone who got strawmanned for things he didn't mean nor say. If you read my post, all I was saying is that there are a lot of people acting sympathetic saying "Oh, it's sad to see BW dying" and then a whole bunch of stuff about how excited they are and that it makes certain people angry. I didn't say don't say it. I didn't even say that it was foul, so you misinterpreted what I wrote. Also, what are you trying to say. Your second half, seriously, made absolutely no sense. On October 29 2011 05:38 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Or they like both games but just prefer sc2 now and can live without BW because they have replaced it. That does not mean they are not fans or have fond memories of BW. Ignore them and go lament with eachother if you can't handle someone being optimistic for their game of choice. Why is this turning ad hominem when all I was doing was explaining how you're just blatantly inferring from someone's post things that he didn't even say? Because he did say everything I implied he said and then you supported his opinion about all the sc2 posters etc. But w/e. Some people can only see one side of things. Gl thread How am I supporting his opinion about all SC2 posters when I specifically called you out for strawmanning his argument? If you can find a SINGLE post where I bash the SC2 side of the forum then I'll rescind all my comments. You'll see that I've only made slight jabs at players at and the game, so stop acting all high and mighty when I haven't had a single negative thing to say about SC2 posters. If anything, you're one sided for not even acknowledging that he has a point. The fact that I took NO stance in his argument and instead just reiterated it so that YOU could understand what he was talking about shows how ignorant you're being. I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2. IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting. So please stop with your fake sensitivity.
![[image loading]](http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s325/omglol69/Good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you-1.jpg)
K now that's done
It's kinda crappy that now there's only gonna be one SC to watch, but this day was inevitable
User was warned for this post
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On October 29 2011 06:04 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:51 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2011 05:48 mGMUSE wrote:On October 29 2011 05:45 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2011 05:41 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 05:39 Tachion wrote:On October 29 2011 05:32 BroodWarHD wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 Shiori wrote:On October 29 2011 05:27 skyzzang wrote:
Here are some unneccesary skills BW players have that will carry over to SC2.
Being able to bind buildings/units from 1 ~ 9
Being able to manually click buildings to pump units
Being able to drag and click units very fast
All these have been solved and everyone can do it with the comfort of just one hot key.
20 rax can be grouped in one hotkey and you spam aaaaaaaaa for marines.
No need to manually click on buildings which is useless skill that seperates BW players will carry over. No need to drag units now since you can group everything in one hotkey as well.
There is nothing special that BW players will have over currently well established SC2 players, yeah, because clearly someone like Bisu, who has the multitasking ability of a computer, won't be able to use that to his advantage when the game makes it easier for him to do mechanical tasks. if your reasoning is true, then we have the following conclusion: SC2 is a terrible game with a low skill cap. hopefully you're wrong. Uhh.. sc2 has a high skillcap. But its about buildorders, unit composition. Micro and macro have been somewhat solved in sc2, thatis true. But you still need the right unit comp to counter your enemy and the build order to do it efficiently, so you need strategy. Micro and macro have been solved? What does that mean? Until we get someone who can macro like TOP/Bomber and micro like MKP micros his marines, I don't think we can say we've hit the skill ceiling for SC2. (IMHO.) Mvp. Macro's better than bomber and micro's with the best :D Mvp's micro is overrated. As well as TOP's macro. But Bomber has really great macro, hard to know who has the best macro without knowing personally the players I guess if you understand how mvp micros - taking marine tank ghost TvZ as an example - you'd know that his micro is actually untouchable by any other terran in the world. mkp used to be the king of splits but many people have become better than him at his own art, including mvp. Just watch his games against NesTea or DongRaeGu. Mvp's micro is not that great. About MKP's micro, dunno ask people living in korea how good or bad his micro is, they know better. I think MKP's overrated in his overall play, but it's hard to deny that he has the best micro. With Zerg, though, I think we can all agree that nobody's hit the skill ceiling for that race yet, esp. after NesTea's horrible game against MVP at Blizzcon.
No one has hit the skill ceiling for any race.
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On October 29 2011 06:01 HydroOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:59 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:58 HydroOwl wrote:On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore. Freaking old? Nada is 26, Boxer is 31. In what world is this "freaking old"? Are you one of those people that thinks their hands slow down or something? There's a reason why older players phase out. It happens in every sport, and it'll be true in e-sports too. It happens in other sports because their bodies can't perform at the same physical level. There's no reason why it has to happen in esports, especially to a 26 year old. It's not like his hands are slow or something. As long as the dedication and practice are still there, I don't see why he can't succeed.
the word is mindset
playing 10 years the same game over and over make you well i would say sat, you not that hungry anymore. you just cant do what the younger does cause of your mindset, and thats everywhere, a 14 year old kid can do the same stupid thing for 10hours thinking of something amazing and then there is a 30 year old guy get bored after 10 minutes xD even if they both like it the same amount
speed reaction etc everything slows down fast and when you dont believe, well its proven in over 10 years of sc1 man !
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It's obviously for Starcraft 2.
Since when the hell would you have needed that much power for Brood War.
If Blizzard and GOM don't try shutting down the Proleague, this will be big news.
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Ahh, would love to see SC2 come into to the Proleague.
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On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore.
Boxer is no longer in Code S, and while Nada performed consistently he's not a top Terran player; both are good players, as I said. July got to the finals with a series of cheesy all ins. He's not a top 10 Zerg. I'm not sure he knows how to build drones.
That article is laughable, and has been debated ad nasuem so I'm not going to re-litigate the past. BW and SC2 are rapidly different games, which require different levels of skill. There won't be a pure 1:1 transition of someone dominating BW automatically dominating SC2.
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EPT
