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On October 29 2011 06:02 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:52 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:48 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 Assirra wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Then what are SC2 fans are supposed to say exactly? "glad brood war is dieing" is foul "its sad that brood war is dieing" is foul as well. Btw you can't say don't talk about it at all cause we all know its simply a to big topic considering what the thread is about. Of course if its those that are known as you say its clearly false but what about the others? We are in some serious generalizations here. I didn't tell you to say anything. I was just defending someone who got strawmanned for things he didn't mean nor say. If you read my post, all I was saying is that there are a lot of people acting sympathetic saying "Oh, it's sad to see BW dying" and then a whole bunch of stuff about how excited they are and that it makes certain people angry. I didn't say don't say it. I didn't even say that it was foul, so you misinterpreted what I wrote. Also, what are you trying to say. Your second half, seriously, made absolutely no sense. On October 29 2011 05:38 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:
I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2.
IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting.
So please stop with your fake sensitivity. Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Or they like both games but just prefer sc2 now and can live without BW because they have replaced it. That does not mean they are not fans or have fond memories of BW. Ignore them and go lament with eachother if you can't handle someone being optimistic for their game of choice. Why is this turning ad hominem when all I was doing was explaining how you're just blatantly inferring from someone's post things that he didn't even say? Because he did say everything I implied he said and then you supported his opinion about all the sc2 posters etc. But w/e. Some people can only see one side of things. Gl thread How am I supporting his opinion about all SC2 posters when I specifically called you out for strawmanning his argument? If you can find a SINGLE post where I bash the SC2 side of the forum then I'll rescind all my comments. You'll see that I've only made slight jabs at players at and the game, so stop acting all high and mighty when I haven't had a single negative thing to say about SC2 posters. If anything, you're one sided for not even acknowledging that he has a point. The fact that I took NO stance in his argument and instead just reiterated it so that YOU could understand what he was talking about shows how ignorant you're being. On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote: I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2. IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting. So please stop with your fake sensitivity. What point does that serve beyond trolling sc2 and insulted sc2 "kids"? And the end of your paragraph "it gets ugly" is the issue I had with it. Does someone need to write a large speech on why they are sad for BW and happy for sc2? If you can't handle the fact they are more happy then sad and are still posting then don't read it I guess. Perhaps I was a bit harsh of your post but his post had nothing beneficial at all to any argument imo.
Again, I advocated nothing but a reiteration of his post. MAYBE he was trolling, and MAYBE I'm defending the wrong guy, but the point is that there are a lot of people who just toss out the term "sad that BW is dying" as if it's just something you write whenever you're about to say "oh, but I'm excited about what's next". And that's why he (perhaps) got angry. It's because it LOOKS fake and it LOOKS as if it's done on purpose to cover one's tracks.
I'm not mad if someone has a well thought out post, and I rarely get mad period, but when it's just a bunch of one liners (and trust me, they happen a lot), that's when a lot of people on this board get iffy. And by the way, I meant "it gets ugly" not as in BW people come in and beat the crap out of everyone, it's that it's the time when people start getting frustrated.
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don't want to see flash & co. in sc2, at least not anytime soon. why would they play a (currently) gimped and inferior game? + they earn more money with bw anyway.
at least 10 more osl/spl seasons please, hopefully by then sc2 becomes a better game then what it is today (crap).
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On October 29 2011 05:22 skyzzang wrote:
Just take a look at Julyzerg. What happend to him in SC2 ?
One of the reason why he's doing poorly is because
1) Skill ceiling for SC2 is very very very low compared to BW
2) Easy interface, Binding, Unit control
3) Zerg's specialty does not shine in SC2 as much as it did in BW, which was speed and flank.
aka, one sentry blocking the ramp.
People say this all the time (well 1 and 2). And yet, we still haven't seen an game where someone
1) hit every worker (non-zerg)
2) never got supply blocked
3) had perfect overlord/creep spread
As for the interface, when I watch SC2, every major battle involves several scenes of miscontrol. Sure a lot of it is bad players keeping everything on one hot key, but things like:
1 - not target firing tanks
2 - not spreading colossus
3 - not keeping HT/Infestors from running to their death when they're out of energy
these things keep happening, and are just the common examples (FF micro and unit spreading isn't really consistent either)
The skill ceiling for SC2 is still a long way from being reached, despite the easier interface / infinite control groups / ect.
As for July, it's pretty simple for a long time he played every matchup exactly as if it were still BW, and when he wasn't playing them as if it were BW, he certainly wasn't playing them with a high SC2 understanding.
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On October 29 2011 06:01 HydroOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:59 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:58 HydroOwl wrote:On October 29 2011 05:51 Keone wrote:On October 29 2011 05:42 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 05:34 L_Master wrote:On October 29 2011 05:20 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 29 2011 04:57 tyCe wrote:On October 29 2011 04:53 THM wrote:On October 29 2011 03:56 Alpina wrote:
do you think pros like jaedong, flash really going to dominate current pros? Because everyone was talking the same when boxer, july, nada switched but they are pretty much on the same level as everyone else now. On October 29 2011 03:58 Chill wrote:
What about July? Golden mouse holder and he's not smashing SC2! I don't think it's as easy as flick a switch and BW pros now dominate SC2. Jeadong and Flash are the current best bw pros. Boxer and nada were the best at bw 5+ years ago. The difference is huge. Pretty sure Chill knows his BW considering he was the BW strategy moderator for ages ^_^ Still, you can't compared July with Jaedong. I dunno if he's trolling or drunk. July, Nada, Boxer, etc destroy the argument. If it's true top players automatically are better than SC2 players because their micro/APM/etc is superior, we should be able to witness that in the very best BW players regardless of whether their career slowed down towards the end; is anyone going to argue Nada and July aren't BW legends? I'm tired of the argument. Jaedong and company will most likely be better than July/Nada/etc but there's no guarantee they'll magically dominate SC2. Jaedong will not be better than Nestea or Dimaga or Stephano a month after switching. Or two, three, etc. That's the entire point though. Nada, July, Boxer; et al. are legends, BUT they were towards the end in their careers. They definitely didn't have the same level of micro, APM, gamesense, etc as their younger counterparts. They were great in their time, but couldn't keep up with the ever rising skill level of the younger blood in the BW scene. The newer BW players were better than those legends ever were. Same way Hicham El Guerrouj is much better than Roger Bannister ever was. But if SC2 is far easier than BW, the fact that Nada/July/etc weren't at their best wouldn't matter; the apm and micro demands are lower in SC2. So the fact that they have not dominated anything should be pointed to as evidence the skills don't translate as easily as some think. Nada is a solid SC2 player, Boxer is good, while July isn't a top 10 zerg imo. They're all good, they all have twich reflexes, tons of experience, etc. But they aren't doing nearly as well as some predicted. Since you're such an SC2 junkie, why don't you check your own stats? July was a runner up in the finals. Boxer & Nada have done amazingly in Code S considering how freaking old they are, especially the Emperor. I really think some TL writer needs to write an amazing full-fledged post to explain this to people. Oh wait, they already have... it looks like some people just don't know their TL lore. Freaking old? Nada is 26, Boxer is 31. In what world is this "freaking old"? Are you one of those people that thinks their hands slow down or something? There's a reason why older players phase out. It happens in every sport, and it'll be true in e-sports too. It happens in other sports because their bodies can't perform at the same physical level. There's no reason why it has to happen in esports, especially to a 26 year old. It's not like his hands are slow or something. As long as the dedication and practice are still there, I don't see why he can't succeed.
Are you kidding? Try executing 300+ APM 8+ hours a day for more than 2-3 years. If you don't have severe carpal tunnel at the end of that, then you're not human.
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This is awesome, BW players need to relax all games fade eventually. BW had its time for 10 years and now SC2 is going to have its turn to leave its mark on eposrts.
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On October 29 2011 06:04 TutsiRebel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:15 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:52 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:48 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:40 Assirra wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:
[quote]
Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Then what are SC2 fans are supposed to say exactly? "glad brood war is dieing" is foul "its sad that brood war is dieing" is foul as well. Btw you can't say don't talk about it at all cause we all know its simply a to big topic considering what the thread is about. Of course if its those that are known as you say its clearly false but what about the others? We are in some serious generalizations here. I didn't tell you to say anything. I was just defending someone who got strawmanned for things he didn't mean nor say. If you read my post, all I was saying is that there are a lot of people acting sympathetic saying "Oh, it's sad to see BW dying" and then a whole bunch of stuff about how excited they are and that it makes certain people angry. I didn't say don't say it. I didn't even say that it was foul, so you misinterpreted what I wrote. Also, what are you trying to say. Your second half, seriously, made absolutely no sense. On October 29 2011 05:38 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 29 2011 05:30 mrtomjones wrote:On October 29 2011 05:24 Canadium wrote:On October 29 2011 05:17 mrtomjones wrote:
[quote]
Or you could act less butthurt and accept that they truly do feel that way. If they truly felt that way they'd help keep the game alive instead of saying things like "It's sad to see BW die." Which is what a game as good as BW deserves. BW doesn't need to die. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. It's just disrespectful. Ok. I'll help keep broodwar alive. Oh wait... I have no influence over whether it lives or dies... that sucks. You are trying to blame people for something they can do nothing about? Maybe YOU should be doing something to keep it alive. The point of his post was for people to stop saying "sad that BW is dying" as if it's some sympathetic remark to stave off a ban. Most people who truly are into BW and love the game are either resentful or terribly sad that some of their favorite teams and players are switching over to what they see as an inferior game. He's just telling you to stop acting sympathetic because few BW fans will actually say "Oh, I'm sorry BW is dead, but I'm hopeful about the future!" Those who do say it are actually quite known and have been vocal about it for some time, and they do get recognized for saying it. But when people just post one liners and then expect us to be satisfied, then it turns into something ugly. Or they like both games but just prefer sc2 now and can live without BW because they have replaced it. That does not mean they are not fans or have fond memories of BW. Ignore them and go lament with eachother if you can't handle someone being optimistic for their game of choice. Why is this turning ad hominem when all I was doing was explaining how you're just blatantly inferring from someone's post things that he didn't even say? Because he did say everything I implied he said and then you supported his opinion about all the sc2 posters etc. But w/e. Some people can only see one side of things. Gl thread How am I supporting his opinion about all SC2 posters when I specifically called you out for strawmanning his argument? If you can find a SINGLE post where I bash the SC2 side of the forum then I'll rescind all my comments. You'll see that I've only made slight jabs at players at and the game, so stop acting all high and mighty when I haven't had a single negative thing to say about SC2 posters. If anything, you're one sided for not even acknowledging that he has a point. The fact that I took NO stance in his argument and instead just reiterated it so that YOU could understand what he was talking about shows how ignorant you're being. I love how all the SC2 kids are like "It IS sad to see BW die, but who cares we were never involved with it anyway!" Seriously just admit you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of BW and stop trying to kiss our asses because it is painful to hear all this news of possible transitions to SC2. IMO I don't think any top BW pros should switch: It would be almost insulting to see them play a game that's less skillful and less exciting. So please stop with your fake sensitivity. ![[image loading]](http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s325/omglol69/Good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you-1.jpg) K now that's done It's kinda crappy that now there's only gonna be one SC to watch, but this day was inevitable
Meme aside, this is a good point. This thread should not be transitioning into a Brood War vs Wings of Liberty bitch-fest.
This is the beginning of the end of Brood War. It will be missed, it probably will be replaced playing wise by Starcraft 2: Brood War (the custom map on bnet) but things have to move on.
If GOM and KeSPA let players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc into the GSL qualifiers, then there's no doubt we will see a bonjwa dominanted SC2 scene in very little time at all. Apparently the skill levels of these players in some reports are insane in comparison to current professionals.
Imagine if from 2012 onwards, we see Flash take every GSL. Imagine if current Brood War pros end up recieving invites to Western events. Will the foreigner scene ever be able to recover from that much highly concentrated win coming from the Korean scene? Unless they actually start playing like Koreans, probably not.
If Blizzard doesn't stop these players from competing in the Proleague, the GSL or from KeSPA forming an SC2 Starleague, I think this is it for Starcraft: Brood War.
On October 29 2011 06:13 CellTech wrote:
Have any of you BW fans ever considered that many of these 18-25 year olds are tired of playing an old ass game? I KNOW bw is better than sc2, i spent my entire childhood playing, but maybe these guys simply want a change.
That is a factor, I mean I'd compare BW's graphics to the SNES era, or maybe early N64 era.
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Have any of you BW fans ever considered that many of these 18-25 year olds are tired of playing an old ass game? I KNOW bw is better than sc2, i spent my entire childhood playing, but maybe these guys simply want a change.
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On October 29 2011 05:55 Luepert wrote:
So is this Proleague going to have both the old teams plus new sc2 teams like slayers and IM, I'd love to see Slayers vs SK T1. :D
It's SKT T1. SKT is the company sponsor (Sunkyoung Telecom) and T1 is the team name. SK and SKT are completely different organisations.
Sorry to bite your head off, but at least you didn't say SKT1, gadz help the man who does
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On October 29 2011 06:08 .vid wrote:
don't want to see flash & co. in sc2, at least not anytime soon. why would they play a (currently) gimped and inferior game? + they earn more money with bw anyway.
at least 10 more osl/spl seasons please, hopefully by then sc2 becomes a better game then what it is today (crap).
speaking of one liners to try to avoid bans ect. heh.
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On October 29 2011 06:13 CellTech wrote:
Have any of you BW fans ever considered that many of these 18-25 year olds are tired of playing an old ass game? I KNOW bw is better than sc2, i spent my entire childhood playing, but maybe these guys simply want a change.
That's EXACTLY why we're sad. If it makes a better analogy, think of Toy Story 3, except with video games.
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On October 29 2011 06:12 epiics wrote:
This is awesome, BW players need to relax all games fade eventually. BW had its time for 10 years and now SC2 is going to have its turn to leave its mark on eposrts.
Exactly. It was never going to last forever, and neither will SC2. In 10 years we'll get SC3 and SC2 fanboys will be whining about the lack of good players in SC3, low skill level, etc. Esports doesn't work like an actual sport, we won't be seeing 100k prize pools for decade old games forever, especially as competition grows. As Tasteless would say, the vehicle of esports is technology. Technology evolves, and things that were once dominant become obsolete. BW has already reached that point everywhere except Korea. And while SC2 will never reach the Olympian heights BW did as a cultural staple, I think it will do quite well for itself.
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On October 29 2011 06:14 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 05:55 Luepert wrote:
So is this Proleague going to have both the old teams plus new sc2 teams like slayers and IM, I'd love to see Slayers vs SK T1. :D It's SKT T1. SKT is the company sponsor (Sunkyoung Telecom) and T1 is the team name. SK and SKT are completely different organisations. Sorry to bite your head off, but at least you didn't say SKT1, gadz help the man who does
SK = Samsung Khan
SKT:T1 = South Korean Telecom Team 1?
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On October 29 2011 06:12 epiics wrote:
This is awesome, BW players need to relax all games fade eventually. BW had its time for 10 years and now SC2 is going to have its turn to leave its mark on eposrts.
You do realize this is precisely the kind of stuff that stirs the angst of many of "us" BW guys (yes, BW guys do their share of stuff to).
It's like coming in and saying "Relax guys, all people die eventually. Your mother had her time for 54 years." Point being BW dying IS very much an emotional, touchy, subject for those that have grown up with it and enjoyed the game for so long.
Just because BW was going to fade eventually one day certainly doesn't make it any less depressing or crappy of news for those of us that happen to love BW.
Being happy for SC2 and what implications this will have for the game is great. If your a lover of SC2 this is wonderful news!
But posting garbage like that and rubbing in that BW may be about to lose large numbers of its great players is really pretty thoughtless.
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On October 29 2011 06:17 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 06:14 Eishi_Ki wrote:On October 29 2011 05:55 Luepert wrote:
So is this Proleague going to have both the old teams plus new sc2 teams like slayers and IM, I'd love to see Slayers vs SK T1. :D It's SKT T1. SKT is the company sponsor (Sunkyoung Telecom) and T1 is the team name. SK and SKT are completely different organisations. Sorry to bite your head off, but at least you didn't say SKT1, gadz help the man who does SK = Samsung KhanSKT:T1 = South Korean Telecom Team 1?
No.
SK = SK Group (in Korea).
SKT:T1 = SK Telecom T1 (team name).
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All I can say is it will be a sad day when brood war dies. Its such a good game its just the graphics and lack of modern features that kills it. The gameplay is so much better then SC 2.
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The skill ceiling for SC2 is still a long way from being reached, despite the easier interface / infinite control groups / ect.
Agreed, but you could also add the fact that if the interface becomes more user friendly in that sense, the top level of competition will simply be competing over something else. So, let's say that if in BW the top level of competition was over how well the limited control groups were used (just one example), in SC2 for example maybe the highest echelon of competition will be over who manages to have perfect control over every single unit in big battles, with multiple battles occurring and doing everything else perfect.
I mean, theoretically it could come down to a Protoss' ability to never even take hull damage to any of his units. That's the level of perfection that could be reached for, and would be plausible had not then we had to consider that his opponent would develop equal/similar control, setting the level of competition.
What is the contended areas of technical skill is simply redefined, as players are not competing against the game, but players of similar skill to themselves.
That is why the whole idea of a relative skill ceiling between deep games does not make sense.
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On October 29 2011 05:56 PredY wrote:i'm certain players like flash or jaedong will push the game to the limits and will provide a lot of exciting games with a lot of micro, macro, positioning and crazy situations, but blizzard needs to listen to them. 
No offense, but progamers are whiners also and are susceptible to emotional statements. Best example and extremely clear is MVP. After he dropped to Code A he said that terran is the weakest race, then without any major changes to T (even some minor nerfs) he proceeded to win 3 GSL titles and dominate the scene. I don't wanna say that they don't know what they are saying, they are obviously extremely knowledgeable people, but you cannot take everything what they say seriously and say: Yeah, let's do that. Everyone is a bit bias towards their own race.
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On October 29 2011 06:17 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 06:14 Eishi_Ki wrote:On October 29 2011 05:55 Luepert wrote:
So is this Proleague going to have both the old teams plus new sc2 teams like slayers and IM, I'd love to see Slayers vs SK T1. :D It's SKT T1. SKT is the company sponsor (Sunkyoung Telecom) and T1 is the team name. SK and SKT are completely different organisations. Sorry to bite your head off, but at least you didn't say SKT1, gadz help the man who does SK = Samsung Khan SKT:T1 = South Korean Telecom Team 1?
SK implies the European organisation SK Gaming. And I already stated what SKT stands for. The 'T' in T1 isn't an acronym for anything as far as I'm aware. The team name is literally T1.
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What did you expect seriously? That BW was going to last forever or that SC2 would have some unfriendly user interface or that it would be just as hard as BW?.. Sort of wishful thinking to be honest and as soon as SC2 announced it was going to eventually take over BW unless it was a massive failure..
Not that I don't respect BW or doubt that it was a great game but people who keep hating on SC2 just annoy me
And LOL at the guy saying it "will be insulting to see them play a less exciting and skillful game"... please get off your high horse
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It's like coming in and saying "Relax guys, all people die eventually. Your mother had her time for 54 years." Point being BW dying IS very much an emotional, touchy, subject for those that have grown up with it and enjoyed the game for so long.
Except people are getting as emotional as if their mother HAD died, when it's merely a transitioning in computer gaming.
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EPT
