About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise:
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
SC2's future is not uncertain, are you kidding me? There is a HUGE fanbase around the world and the koreans know they have the best players and can make cash from a much wider (global) fanbase.. And i doubt BW is going to die very soon, at least not within the year.
On October 31 2011 14:22 figq wrote: Seeing how many people apparently like StarCraft II, but know almost nothing about StarCraft: Brood War - I wonder, aren't you interested in everything StarCraft-related? Doesn't at least this thread make you interested?
To give example, I went back and completed all campaigns and expansions for WarCraft 1 and 2, just to get perspective on how Blizzard learned and developed their trade leading up to StarCraft. It would bother me, if I didn't know. I've completed StarCraft 64 (the Nintendo port), and studied the rules for the boardgames SC1 and BW. And of course, I love SC2. Don't you have such needs for exploration? How much do you really like StarCraft II?
You sir, are a true fan of Starcraft and I admire you... TL needs more people like you... I wish I could get my hands on stuff like that that's playable on a mac...
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
This isn't your personal bash BW thread. Sc2 does not have an uncertain future, the game is constantly growing, already has a giant fan base and is picking up steam.
I personally think Sc2 is a better game than BW but I don't go around shitting all over your game. The sad part is if someone made this post about BW they would be banned. I don't come into the BW forums and bash BW so keep this crap out of the sc2 forums.
On October 31 2011 17:00 rift wrote: Another huge game-changer could be the steady flow of high quality KeSPA maps into leagues. Brood War's balance is dependent on them, and if the same happens to StarCraft 2, perhaps there will be less need for patching.
Terrain is much less important in SC2, but they can try!
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
1225 (7 lurker gas cost) / 25 (baneling gas cost) = 49
I think its even more sad that if you could actually micro 11 marines and 1 medivac to kill 49 banelings, 20 zerglings, a Hatchery and an Evo Chamber, there would be mass screams of imba and Blizzard would never let it happen. T_T
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
1225 (7 lurker gas cost) / 25 (baneling gas cost) = 49
I think its even more sad that if you could actually micro 11 marines and 1 medivac to kill 49 banelings, 20 zerglings, a Hatchery and an Evo Chamber, there would be mass screams of imba and Blizzard would never let it happen. T_T
Ahahah yeah that would be awesome yet so true... I wonder why everyone thinks that Koreans are just natrually better at SC1/2 than foreigners... I mean y'all say that the SC2 pros have huge sponsors now... Well then aren't they also practicing tons too? So what gives Koreans an advantage?
I'm not that bothered about this. Either the BW pros switch to SC2 or they don't, there's still enough good players and tournaments to keep me interested.
It's pretty clear that NO game will be as huge as BW was/is in Korea. It's just not about the game being awesome, it's about it turning into a cultural phenomenon. Nothing will replace it and most probably BW interest will decline until it's dropped completely. It's not going to last forever and any smart person will realize that. Kespa is probably on to this and to survive in the long run they are looking for something that can atleast keep them afloat, i'm pretty sure they know that SC2 will never be as popular as BW.
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
1225 (7 lurker gas cost) / 25 (baneling gas cost) = 49
I think its even more sad that if you could actually micro 11 marines and 1 medivac to kill 49 banelings, 20 zerglings, a Hatchery and an Evo Chamber, there would be mass screams of imba and Blizzard would never let it happen. T_T
Ahahah yeah that would be awesome yet so true... I wonder why everyone thinks that Koreans are just natrually better at SC1/2 than foreigners... I mean y'all say that the SC2 pros have huge sponsors now... Well then aren't they also practicing tons too? So what gives Koreans an advantage?
Just not huge enough to create game houses, where people live and train together. Also, Koreans progamers still tend to practice more than foreigners. Koreans just have better training conditions.
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
1225 (7 lurker gas cost) / 25 (baneling gas cost) = 49
I think its even more sad that if you could actually micro 11 marines and 1 medivac to kill 49 banelings, 20 zerglings, a Hatchery and an Evo Chamber, there would be mass screams of imba and Blizzard would never let it happen. T_T
Ahahah yeah that would be awesome yet so true... I wonder why everyone thinks that Koreans are just natrually better at SC1/2 than foreigners... I mean y'all say that the SC2 pros have huge sponsors now... Well then aren't they also practicing tons too? So what gives Koreans an advantage?
Just not huge enough to create game houses, where people live and train together. Also, Koreans progamers still tend to practice more than foreigners. Koreans just have better training conditions.
There are game houses already. There may not be so many because many foreigner pros go to the korean pro houses. Please BW players complain about SC2 players beeing unknowledgeable about their scene, but I have the feeling that many BW players also didn't get how big SC2 has become. Can we just stop bashing each other. If you are sad that Proleague starts including SC2, please don't bash SC2 because of it, this is KeSPA's decision, not the decision of anybody in SC2.
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
So if we go into a BW thread and mention SC2 we get chased out with pitchforks but you come in here and shit allover SC2 ? Awesome
Even BW fans know that there are not too many years left for their beloved game. Like it or not SC2 will eventually take over.
And your talking as if the skill ceiling in SC2 has been reached. When the A-Teamer's come over i'm sure they will innovate a shitload of new strategies/techniques.
On October 31 2011 05:06 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
On October 31 2011 02:54 vnlegend wrote: BW players are professionals with job security? Lmao??? Most of them get paid basically nothing for extreme dedication and hard work. Most BW pros retire w/o accomplishing anything or making much money. They are all at Kespa's mercy.
SC2 on the other hand has teams that have big sponsors paying salaries and fly them out all over the world.
BW sponsors -SK Telecom, Samsung, etc
SC2 sponsors - ..............
Hardware and computer Gear Manufactorers: Intel, Amd, Kingston, Steelseries, Razor, Alienware Soft Drinks: Pepsi, Cola, Monster Others: Twitch.tv, ..... Countless I didn't mention. Let's look at the pricemoney in SC2: GSL has about 10 tournaments a year with a total of 1 mio pricemoney. NASL has about 400'000 for it's 3 seasons. I think all IEM tournaments together will also have 200-300 k. MLG with providence will also have more than 200k in total. All the Dreamhacks, ESWC, WCG, .... .We didn't yet speek about the saleries of the players. The better SC2 players can live of their salieries, and we do not know how high the top SC2 players saleries are. There is a lot of money in SC2 and the amount of money in the game is rising rapidly.
WOW! This is so bad, it's so good!
I love this "my game has a bigger dick than your game" (changed the word 'God' to 'Game') arguments! I would like to try this too ..
BW main team sponsors: , a big fucking ship liner, 2 top telecom companies, a leading appliance manufacturer, a multi-product corporation.
BW extra sponsor: Adidas, Pocari Sweat, K-Swiss, .. I haven't been watching BW lately so I can't remember those brand names on their uniforms.
Tournament Sponsors: A big fucking bank, A bank, A shave manufacturer, A Country Air-Line, another air line, an energy drink, a soda drink, a favorite snack, a super market chain, .. the list goes on.
Price money? That's just for formalities .. These companies pour money on the scene that can be summed with more than 1 million dollars a year.
Me too!
A Korean ship liner, 2 korean telecom companies, korean appliance manufacturer, korean corporation
Adidas..fine, Pocari sweat, okay, K-Swiss, sure
A Korean bank, a korean blah blah blah.
For an activity that is protected by the ministry of culture, and primarily viewed in one single country, of course corporations from THAT country are going to jump on that. Are you seriously trying to argue that point? Roflcopters up in here, brah.
The second those companies see e-sports and sc2 catching onto the mainstream in the West, they'll jump ship to smear their product lines all over players from around the world.
it just hasn't reached that point yet.
You think the koreans think highly of western people? lol
On October 31 2011 18:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I'm hoping that if there is a switch, the communities won't divide.
Sir... look around you. It already has. I wish we'd all stop fighting over this. Out of curiosity, (I really hope I'm not opening a pandora's box with this question) for those of you who think sc2 is a better game than BW, what aspects of the game make it better in your eyes. Please do not turn this into a let's flame bw or let's flame sc2 war in your response. Think before you post: will my post make anyone angry? If it even has a slight chance of making anyone angry then reword your post. The vast majority of responses of why sc2 is better has dealt with graphics and the improved ai. What elements of the actual gameplay do you enjoy watching?
I will be seriously dissapointed if BW pros won't dominate the scene some time after the switch. For me, their knowledge, experience and game sense is unmatchable in current state of SC2. Only thing that gives me a headache is metagame switch (I mean possible switch) after the release of HoTS and another switch after the LoTV. I'm sad hearing it might kill BW, but at the same time I'm really curious what top players can do in SC2.
About the micro Ai comment, true nobody can ever reach that, but it is impressive how good certain players can do that and the skill is only going to rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
That video just proves what a joke the SC2 graphics and pathing is. Big blobs of stuff shooting at eachother. What you guys also have to remember is that you can't compare BW in 2002 with SC2 today. SC2 today is dominated mostly by players with a lot of experience. MVP and MC trained BW for years on most of their free time. Their overall RTS skills are much better than Boxer's was in 2002, and they probably have double the APM, if not more. The top SC2 players today are really good and there's really not much Flash will be able to add. Whatever Flash did, Nada had already done a few years prior. The only thing Flash brought to the table was strategies, his ability to read games and adept and his flawless macro. If Flash switches, you might be able to see some creative strategies, or brilliant comebacks, but that's it. You will not see him change the standards on micro. Nada could match Flash easily on micro in BW, and what have he done for SC2 micro?
This is Nada's marine micro in BW. That group of mnm did around 10 times more damage than they was worth.
In similar situations, I have personally lost around 30 mnm to half of that amount of lurkers. The BW engagements are intense and requires your immediate attention so that you're not caught off guard. SC2 will never be able to offer that, and on top of that, SC2 will always be plagued by the blobby graphics.
The ppl who are saying it's a natural progression to go from BW to SC2 clearly have no clue what you're talking about since you can't see that there's a huge difference between the games.
The reason why we are angry is because we feel that SC2 is a downgrade. Tell us why our players should switch to a game that is worse? Also tell us why we should watch said game instead? Everybody would have questioned KESPA's sanity if they had transitioned into WC3 a few years ago, so how come BW -> SC2 is taken for granted? Blizzard games are not like Tekken, where there are little to no difference between each new version of the game. If a transition to SC2 is to take place, wouldn't you first have to ask yourself if SC2 actually is a better game? This is a question that the ppl who switched to SC2 never asked themselves. They just hyped it up blindly and assumed that the game would follow the same path as BW.
What happened with BW in Korea was a miracle and it would require a really awesome game if we are to ever see such a great scene again. The fact that KESPA seems open to just disband this scene in favor of SC2, who's future is very uncertain, is quite saddening. BW won't last forever, but I highly doubt that the korean viewers will accept SC2. As ppl have said, the SC2 scene is niched towards gamers. What will happen when the next big RTS is released? I remember WC3 was huge a few years ago, atleast among gamers. Now the game is pretty much dead. But more importantly, the mainstream non gamers in Korea couldn't care less about SC2. BW have transcended to another level. In Korea it's mainstream, a sport. I remember reading a recent interview with the young Samsung KHAN progamer Reality, where he said that the high school he attended was very understanding of his BW career, and that they let him follow a more personalized scheduling plan in school, so that he could more easily focus on both gaming and school. That's how mainstream BW is in Korea. Even grown up parents watch BW with their kids, and teenage girls follow the scene and their players as if they were K-pop stars. I don't think most SC2 fans really understand how huge BW is in Korea, and how many different groups of ppl that SC2 would have to appeal to for a transition to work.
SC2's future is not uncertain, are you kidding me? There is a HUGE fanbase around the world and the koreans know they have the best players and can make cash from a much wider (global) fanbase.. And i doubt BW is going to die very soon, at least not within the year.
100k ppl watching main events online isnt really HUGE fanbase.
On October 31 2011 05:06 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
On October 31 2011 02:54 vnlegend wrote: BW players are professionals with job security? Lmao??? Most of them get paid basically nothing for extreme dedication and hard work. Most BW pros retire w/o accomplishing anything or making much money. They are all at Kespa's mercy.
SC2 on the other hand has teams that have big sponsors paying salaries and fly them out all over the world.
BW sponsors -SK Telecom, Samsung, etc
SC2 sponsors - ..............
Hardware and computer Gear Manufactorers: Intel, Amd, Kingston, Steelseries, Razor, Alienware Soft Drinks: Pepsi, Cola, Monster Others: Twitch.tv, ..... Countless I didn't mention. Let's look at the pricemoney in SC2: GSL has about 10 tournaments a year with a total of 1 mio pricemoney. NASL has about 400'000 for it's 3 seasons. I think all IEM tournaments together will also have 200-300 k. MLG with providence will also have more than 200k in total. All the Dreamhacks, ESWC, WCG, .... .We didn't yet speek about the saleries of the players. The better SC2 players can live of their salieries, and we do not know how high the top SC2 players saleries are. There is a lot of money in SC2 and the amount of money in the game is rising rapidly.
WOW! This is so bad, it's so good!
I love this "my game has a bigger dick than your game" (changed the word 'God' to 'Game') arguments! I would like to try this too ..
BW main team sponsors: , a big fucking ship liner, 2 top telecom companies, a leading appliance manufacturer, a multi-product corporation.
BW extra sponsor: Adidas, Pocari Sweat, K-Swiss, .. I haven't been watching BW lately so I can't remember those brand names on their uniforms.
Tournament Sponsors: A big fucking bank, A bank, A shave manufacturer, A Country Air-Line, another air line, an energy drink, a soda drink, a favorite snack, a super market chain, .. the list goes on.
Price money? That's just for formalities .. These companies pour money on the scene that can be summed with more than 1 million dollars a year.
Me too!
A Korean ship liner, 2 korean telecom companies, korean appliance manufacturer, korean corporation
Adidas..fine, Pocari sweat, okay, K-Swiss, sure
A Korean bank, a korean blah blah blah.
For an activity that is protected by the ministry of culture, and primarily viewed in one single country, of course corporations from THAT country are going to jump on that. Are you seriously trying to argue that point? Roflcopters up in here, brah.
The second those companies see e-sports and sc2 catching onto the mainstream in the West, they'll jump ship to smear their product lines all over players from around the world.
it just hasn't reached that point yet.
You think the koreans think highly of western people? lol
he never said that, he just said theyll jump on the boat to promote when they see how big sc2 is to the rest of the world. meaning its an opportunity to make money
On October 31 2011 18:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I'm hoping that if there is a switch, the communities won't divide.
Sir... look around you. It already has. I wish we'd all stop fighting over this. Out of curiosity, (I really hope I'm not opening a pandora's box with this question) for those of you who think sc2 is a better game than BW, what aspects of the game make it better in your eyes. Please do not turn this into a let's flame bw or let's flame sc2 war in your response. Think before you post: will my post make anyone angry? If it even has a slight chance of making anyone angry then reword your post. The vast majority of responses of why sc2 is better has dealt with graphics and the improved ai. What elements of the actual gameplay do you enjoy watching?
Bro i'm talking about the sc2 communities. Like will the kespa teams stay in their own bubble or will they mingle with the rest of the sc2 world. This has nothing to do with bw vs sc2 or whatever tangeant you've been going on about.
EPT
