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There's a number of things wrong with hydras, speed is only one of them.
High cost and low HP compared to the broodwar hydra they cost 25m 25g more but have no added health.
High tech, they come out about the same time that terrans get tanks and not long after that protoss can have colossus out.
Light armor makes them vulnerable to early herass units like helions and pheonix not to mention banes in zvz. In broodwar hydras were a medium size unit not small which would make them armored in sc2 but the way armor works fundamentally changed( for the worst imo)
One thing to point out about speed is the fact that it takes a while to be able to use it in offense since creep spreads slow and can be denied or overlord creep spread needs ovie speed.
Edit: oh almost forgot hydra supply cost has also changed. Basically any change from broodwar to sc2 done to the hydra was a nerf except its attack, but it looks like that was a bad choice.
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On October 26 2011 13:34 Meteora.GB wrote:
I'm actually not sure why the Hydralisk isn't used very much. The only two things I can pin point down is the mediocre speed and how fragile they are. Yes, they are glass cannons with insanely high DPS, but they die quickly. You do not want to be trading hydras for marines and there's units that do exceptionally well against hydralisks for the Terrans (siege tanks, hellions). Against the Protoss they absolutely demolish gateway units but falter to the colossi and or storms.
If it did receive a speed buff I wonder if people will start using hydralisks more.
Actually unupgraded a stalker beats a hydra 1v1
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Colossi holds it very far back. Light units just die to every sort of AoE imaginable. Banelings do a ton, Tanks do a ton, Hellions do a ton, Colossi are Colossi, and Storm is punishing to anything that can't move fast.
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On October 26 2011 15:32 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Dustin Browder is holding the hydralisk back.
edit: and, yes, ^ agreed with 0neder completely. the lack of a 1 food unit for zerg is really silly, and even messes with how larva works.
Yes. It's not just about balance chaps. It's about numbers of units. If the Hydra was 1 supply and less hp but same DPS, it would be much better.
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Forcing a Zerg to go hydras = you win. The hydra has many glaring weaknesses, speed being but one of them.
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What i find "interesting":
Marine:
Better than in SC/BW.
Extra HP Upgrade (they basically come with the range upgrade by default).
Same cost.
Zergling:
Worse than in SC/BW.
Can evolve to Banelings.
Same cost.
Hydralisk:
More DPS than in SC/BW.
No speed Upgrade anymore.
No Lurker Upgrade anymore.
Double the Gascost, +35% Mineralcost, later in Tech and double the Supplycost.
SERIOUSLY BLIZZARD?
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Hydras actually don't beat any ground unit cost for cost. People have this misconception that they slaughter gateway units, but that's usually because the zerg simply outmacroed his opponent.
Hydras trade even with stalkers, immortals and marauders. Units that have massive bonus to armored. They get absolutely slaughtered by every other combat unit. By the time you get to hive tech, they get hard countered so bad you might want to destroy your own hydra den to make sure you don't spawn one by mistake.
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It's the attack animation, obviously. The roach took it :[
Acid > spines.
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I really don't think the up coming speed upgrade will let us see more hydra useage since its hive tech. Its almost like blizzard was pissed off that so many people bitched about slow hydras that they had to do something and there like "fine here's your stupid speed upgrade but you don't get it until its way too late".
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really? we're comparing marine and marauder move speeds to hydras? as if they were somehow similar? make the marine cost 100/50 and then we'll talk.
fortunately blizz decided that the current hydra isn't worth its cost and gave it what it needed all along.
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So in HoTS hydras will be able to chase down stalkers? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous?
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the hydra is already good in ZvP until 3+ colossi come out, it's not viable in ZvT because of hellions in mech, and the lack of AoE/tankiness vs bio. ZvZ it's used pretty commonly to increase surface area in roach vs roach play. the speed increase will make it a VERY central unit
On October 26 2011 16:17 Pwere wrote:
Hydras actually don't beat any ground unit cost for cost. People have this misconception that they slaughter gateway units, but that's usually because the zerg simply outmacroed his opponent.
Hydras trade even with stalkers, immortals and marauders. Units that have massive bonus to armored. They get absolutely slaughtered by every other combat unit. By the time you get to hive tech, they get hard countered so bad you might want to destroy your own hydra den to make sure you don't spawn one by mistake.
lol this made me laugh
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Basically everything boils down to the fact that Blizzard won't axe the colossus, but it ruins the game in so many ways...
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It's not that the hydra is too slow, it's that it's too slow for how fragile it is.
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On October 26 2011 16:22 bovineblitz wrote:
So in HoTS hydras will be able to chase down stalkers? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous?
A zerg unit chases down a protoss unit? Must be a glitch someone report it to blizz lol.
To be fair zerg has a protoss unit called roach and after hots terrans reaper will become a full fledged zerg unit o.O
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I am pretty sure it's that they're in a really weird tech section. They're no longer t1.5, they're t2+. That just doesn't work for a slow, un-massable unit.
The roach being the new hydra is the reason I don't play zerg. I liked the hydra, and the roach is a retarded unit that has no interesting features or mechanics.
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On October 26 2011 16:22 bovineblitz wrote:
So in HoTS hydras will be able to chase down stalkers? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous?
No, the stalkers will just be recalled back to base.
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Q: What is holding the Hydralisk back?
A: Blizzard gave its role away to the roach and now they have no idea what to do with it
at least they're trying to fix it instead of trashing it like the carrier
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On October 26 2011 16:23 0neder wrote:
Basically everything boils down to the fact that Blizzard won't axe the colossus, but it ruins the game in so many ways...
I personally don't like the colossus for many reasons but the reaver countered hydras just as bad really. So o don't think its entirely a colossus problem.
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The speed upgrade will help unbelievably with the hydra, but not if it is at hive. We need it for the lair tech so we can have those mid-game battles and being able to retreat as well. At hive, no one makes hydras anyway, so why have it in there?
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EPT
