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[D]Are mutalisks overpowered in WOL?? - Page 57

Forum Index > SC2 General
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newbornducky
Profile Joined September 2010
42 Posts
November 07 2011 09:34 GMT
#1121
Why does everyone seem to hate the tempest before even playing with it? I know the hots custom map is just for fun, but if it is not too far off, then the tempest is not that bad. Carriers have a 120 second build times and the tempest is only 75 (same as colossi). Also it does 22 damage to all kinds of units and the splash is huge. Countering muta is probably just a side effect of the tempest. I think the real potential is to soften the air dominance of other races over protoss. It will help the colossi by making vikings' lives much harder. In fact it may even make MMMVG unviable as it splash all the medivacs and vikings, so the vikings have to deal with the tempest before dealing with the colossi and at the same time colossi will just melt all your bio. It will be interesting if this makes terran going back to mech play (so they dont die to colossi as fast) vs protoss.
Cillas
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany78 Posts
November 07 2011 09:40 GMT
#1122
Those Probs are all TvZ related, what about PvZ?
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
November 07 2011 09:42 GMT
#1123
As somone who played both Terran and Protoss I don't get all the Terran discussion as they are actually pretty fine against Mutas. Marines absolutely destroy them and turrets and thors are good as well. Every equivalant unit Protoss has is way worse vs air. A single unstimmed marine (50/0) has higher dps than a stalker (125/50). Turrets (100/0) have almost double the dps as cannons (150/0) and thors do nice splash with a huge range compared to archons.
Exarian
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland58 Posts
November 07 2011 10:22 GMT
#1124
As somone who played both Terran and Protoss I don't get all the Terran discussion as they are actually pretty fine against Mutas. Marines absolutely destroy them and turrets and thors are good as well. Every equivalant unit Protoss has is way worse vs air. A single unstimmed marine (50/0) has higher dps than a stalker (125/50). Turrets (100/0) have almost double the dps as cannons (150/0) and thors do nice splash with a huge range compared to archons.


Mutas are more OP vs Toss then vs Terran - by large margin. Main problem with mutas is their huge positioning advantage and attacking multiple places at once thx to superior speed. Even if your army in direct combat is able to rotflstomp mutas, these mutas will attack each of your expos one by one and force you to either split your forces or sacrifice attacked expansion. Both solutions give huge advantage to Zerg: first option is making offense against Zerg very hard, and on top of that your divided forced will fight uphill battle against mutas, second option will give Zerg full map control and limit you to 1-2 bases. Both scenarios are giving Zerg huge unjustified advantage, and "don't let him build mutas or get punished" balance-wise is worst suggestion ever. T and P should be able to fight against Mutas on equal terms, which mean access to either units negating mutas positioning advantage (by superior range and huge splash) or units with their own positioning advantage and splash able to hunt mutas.

If not, then only option is reducing mutas movement speed to more reasonable value.
headdshot
Profile Joined July 2011
43 Posts
November 07 2011 10:39 GMT
#1125
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.
IVN
Profile Joined October 2010
534 Posts
November 07 2011 10:41 GMT
#1126
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.

Yeah :-/


bgillion HTs and blink Stalkers vs just mutas and speedlings???? trololololol, mutas win.


Ugs06
Profile Joined April 2009
United States23 Posts
November 07 2011 10:43 GMT
#1127
storm should do twice as much damage to air. that game was just stupid.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 07 2011 10:43 GMT
#1128
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.


yeah, Crazymoving going 3hatch, Hero doing no damage with his 2base Airharass, then doing no damage with his 2base chargelot harass and still able to play a 25min macro game... What a joke.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
November 07 2011 10:43 GMT
#1129
vs Terran? No.

vs Protoss? Yes.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Ugs06
Profile Joined April 2009
United States23 Posts
November 07 2011 10:46 GMT
#1130
just give us back the corsair and make muta stack more TT
d9mmdi
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany179 Posts
November 07 2011 10:48 GMT
#1131
Cravymoving: yes Mutas are imba obvioulsy, Blizzard seen him play it seems =D
also need a replacement race for protoss now it seems XDD
You gotta step over dead bodies - Momma Plott
headdshot
Profile Joined July 2011
43 Posts
November 07 2011 10:49 GMT
#1132
On November 07 2011 19:43 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.


yeah, Crazymoving going 3hatch, Hero doing no damage with his 2base Airharass, then doing no damage with his 2base chargelot harass and still able to play a 25min macro game... What a joke.


he killed like 4queens and lost 3-4 zlots? took a 11 min or so third and hes super behind(maybe a little )? his air harrass is supposably supposed to be a good opening againts muta, oh guess what, muta just ran his air over,then he proceeded to float 3k gas while at 200 food with muta ling,0 creep tumers 30 minutes into game.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
November 07 2011 10:55 GMT
#1133
On November 07 2011 19:43 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.


yeah, Crazymoving going 3hatch, Hero doing no damage with his 2base Airharass, then doing no damage with his 2base chargelot harass and still able to play a 25min macro game... What a joke.


Why do you have to use so much spin in every post you make? Are you incapable of having a fair discussion?

Should someone of posted: Hero opens phoenix into blink, crazymoving goes muta and wins? No, because that is putting a false spin on what happened.

What really happened is we saw that Storm is very effective against mutas but the protoss player has more to lose each time he makes a mistake, as templars die faster that mutas. I think we also saw some very bad decision making my Hero, but I suspect that he does not have a great deal of experience vs muta/ling in the late game.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 07 2011 10:57 GMT
#1134
On November 07 2011 19:49 headdshot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 19:43 Big J wrote:
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.


yeah, Crazymoving going 3hatch, Hero doing no damage with his 2base Airharass, then doing no damage with his 2base chargelot harass and still able to play a 25min macro game... What a joke.


he killed like 4queens and lost 3-4 zlots? took a 11 min or so third and hes super behind(maybe a little )? his air harrass is supposably supposed to be a good opening againts muta, oh guess what, muta just ran his air over,then he proceeded to float 3k gas while at 200 food with muta ling,0 creep tumers 30 minutes into game.


he killed 2queens, and even that was very late. He went for charge which is a 350/300 investment extra to his zealots. I'm not sure about his third, but from what I remember he didn't start it until 12mins.
And no, air openings are not "good vs mutalisks". Double stargate is. those voids aren't...

And yes, you said it, he was maxed. ofc he starts to float ressources and ofc he is. Hero floated 1,5k minerals all game as well.

And if you're watch game2. Hero scouts the spire and builds 2stargates and crazymoving cancels the spire immidiatly, because mutas don't beat double stargate play...
And Hero wins the game, even though his canon rush failed and his 4gate+1 attack failed and he is playing 3base vs 2base for even longer...
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
November 07 2011 10:57 GMT
#1135
Does anyone else think Hero should of tried for a mothership? he already had a stargate and a templar archives. He even had templar all game that could quickly be made into archons. Maybe he did not want to put all his eggs in one basket? Maybe he expected the muta/ling to transition into ultralisk? I am not sure, but I am pretty sure that landing a vortex on 30 mutas would be inbalanced in protoss' favour, and he did not even try it.
IVN
Profile Joined October 2010
534 Posts
November 07 2011 10:57 GMT
#1136
On November 07 2011 19:43 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.


yeah, Crazymoving going 3hatch, Hero doing no damage with his 2base Airharass, then doing no damage with his 2base chargelot harass and still able to play a 25min macro game... What a joke.

Doing no damage with his air? He forced like 8 spores, killed 2, 3 queens and a couple of overlords.
Exarian
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland58 Posts
November 07 2011 11:01 GMT
#1137
Doing no damage with his air? He forced like 8 spores, killed 2, 3 queens and a couple of overlords.


So basically he killed nothing worth minerals... while player playing muta usually have more minerals then he need.
Ugs06
Profile Joined April 2009
United States23 Posts
November 07 2011 11:02 GMT
#1138
I wish instead of saying "hes really good at using mutalisks" they said "hes really good at making mutalisks."
dapierow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Serbia1316 Posts
November 07 2011 11:07 GMT
#1139
I should make a topic about are pheonix's are op? Destroying the shit out of hydras
Eat.Sleep.Starcraft 2
headdshot
Profile Joined July 2011
43 Posts
November 07 2011 11:08 GMT
#1140
On November 07 2011 19:57 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 19:49 headdshot wrote:
On November 07 2011 19:43 Big J wrote:
On November 07 2011 19:39 headdshot wrote:
lol anyone else watchin code a hero vs crazymoving, what a joke.


yeah, Crazymoving going 3hatch, Hero doing no damage with his 2base Airharass, then doing no damage with his 2base chargelot harass and still able to play a 25min macro game... What a joke.


he killed like 4queens and lost 3-4 zlots? took a 11 min or so third and hes super behind(maybe a little )? his air harrass is supposably supposed to be a good opening againts muta, oh guess what, muta just ran his air over,then he proceeded to float 3k gas while at 200 food with muta ling,0 creep tumers 30 minutes into game.


he killed 2queens, and even that was very late. He went for charge which is a 350/300 investment extra to his zealots. I'm not sure about his third, but from what I remember he didn't start it until 12mins.
And no, air openings are not "good vs mutalisks". Double stargate is. those voids aren't...

And yes, you said it, he was maxed. ofc he starts to float ressources and ofc he is. Hero floated 1,5k minerals all game as well.

And if you're watch game2. Hero scouts the spire and builds 2stargates and crazymoving cancels the spire immidiatly, because mutas don't beat double stargate play...
And Hero wins the game, even though his canon rush failed and his 4gate+1 attack failed and he is playing 3base vs 2base for even longer...



oh i didnt know including the twlight council for charge was how you calculated that, 2 stargates is gimmicky thats why he almost got run over by roach/hydra, luckily that zerg is trash in comparison to hero.
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