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On October 25 2011 02:36 Twinmold wrote:
The replicated unit will start with 200 energy (I believe) and every research for it unlocked.
This will definitely not make it through the beta. Imagine a warp prism with a replicator inside, that is on his way to the enemy base, you warp in a templar at home without even researching storm and when you unload the replicator, it will turn into a templar with full energy and a researched storm?
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Oh, btw...
Anyone else getting remembered of the Engineer from, right, C&C? Oh Dusty... you did it again...
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On October 25 2011 02:44 Teiwaz wrote:
Oh, btw...
Anyone else getting remembered of the Engineer from, right, C&C? Oh Dusty... you did it again...
Wasn't that a sabotage unit?
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On October 25 2011 02:43 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:36 Twinmold wrote:
The replicated unit will start with 200 energy (I believe) and every research for it unlocked.
This will definitely not make it through the beta. Imagine a warp prism with a replicator inside, that is on his way to the enemy base, you warp in a templar at home without even researching storm and when you unload the replicator, it will turn into a templar with full energy and a researched storm?
Wait, is it actually all research unlocked, or is it all research you/your opponent has unlocked? As in, if my opponent didn't have Siege Mode, and I replicated a Siege Tank, would I get Siege Mode?
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I would just replicate a bunch of mules. Think about it mules that will never die due to a time limit!!!
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On October 25 2011 02:36 Twinmold wrote:
Why are people focusing almost exclusively on the fact that it copies enemy units? It has a considerably larger depth than this.
You can copy your own units and this has a much higher usefulness than some seem to believe. While it is always going to be more expensive to replicate a unit than it is to just build it this is just a way to balance it as if it was cheaper why would you ever build anything other than replicants? The replicated unit will start with 200 energy (I believe) and every research for it unlocked. This is the major benefit replicants have over other units (besides its short build time) and why you would build them. Think about it, you started off with getting a robo and later proceed to get templar tech. While storm research is on its way a huge ball of marines comes knocking on your door. Without having AoE marines are pretty hard to deal with correct? But with this new unit you could warp in a templar, chronoboost out a replicant and have 2 storms ready for when the marines arrive. Your immediate demise has been averted.
There are many more things you can do though; you can speed up tech switches (because the robo can function as another stargate/warp gate but at a higher resource cost), react to what you see your opponent getting (by having a few un-used replicants standing around) or as they don’t have energy until they've replicated something with energy you can wait until after the emp:s hit to make those 3-4 replicants in high templars and storm their army. The possibilities are practically endless and it will make the protoss race that much more flexible. And how do you balance this? Tweak its cost, build time, required supply etc. You’ll hardly be creating any new unbeatable combos by replicating your own units and the fact that you have to invest in a robo to get them makes it counterproductive to include replicants in any sort of tech rush.
I’m however against the concept that it can copy your enemies units as I believe that protoss should stick to protoss, terran to terran and zerg to zerg. You shouldn’t have to resort to “making” other races spellcasters (or any other unit) to win and the fact that you would have real no control over whether they actually make a unit or not does nothing but elevate the issue. However the fact that even being able to copy your own units’ gives protoss so many options make it so that I want the replicant to stay. My suggestion would as such just be to remove the part about it being able to copy units you don’t control.
Because it sounds like you can't replicate your own units.
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On October 25 2011 02:46 ManyCookies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:43 Vardant wrote:On October 25 2011 02:36 Twinmold wrote:
The replicated unit will start with 200 energy (I believe) and every research for it unlocked.
This will definitely not make it through the beta. Imagine a warp prism with a replicator inside, that is on his way to the enemy base, you warp in a templar at home without even researching storm and when you unload the replicator, it will turn into a templar with full energy and a researched storm? Is it actually all research unlocked, or is it all research you/your opponent has unlocked? As in, if my opponent didn't have Siege Mode, and I replicated a Siege Tank, would I get Siege Mode?
You would get siege mode.
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On October 25 2011 02:43 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:36 Twinmold wrote:
The replicated unit will start with 200 energy (I believe) and every research for it unlocked.
This will definitely not make it through the beta. Imagine a warp prism with a replicator inside, that is on his way to the enemy base, you warp in a templar at home without even researching storm and when you unload the replicator, it will turn into a templar with full energy and a researched storm?
For the 200/0 for the warp prism and the 200/200 for the replicant would it really be that imbalanced (you can't warp in the replicant so if you lose the warp prism you also lose the replicant)? The +2 baneling drop against protoss is atleast that effective.
On October 25 2011 02:46 Thallis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:36 Twinmold wrote:
Why are people focusing almost exclusively on the fact that it copies enemy units? It has a considerably larger depth than this.
You can copy your own units and this has a much higher usefulness than some seem to believe. While it is always going to be more expensive to replicate a unit than it is to just build it this is just a way to balance it as if it was cheaper why would you ever build anything other than replicants? The replicated unit will start with 200 energy (I believe) and every research for it unlocked. This is the major benefit replicants have over other units (besides its short build time) and why you would build them. Think about it, you started off with getting a robo and later proceed to get templar tech. While storm research is on its way a huge ball of marines comes knocking on your door. Without having AoE marines are pretty hard to deal with correct? But with this new unit you could warp in a templar, chronoboost out a replicant and have 2 storms ready for when the marines arrive. Your immediate demise has been averted.
There are many more things you can do though; you can speed up tech switches (because the robo can function as another stargate/warp gate but at a higher resource cost), react to what you see your opponent getting (by having a few un-used replicants standing around) or as they don’t have energy until they've replicated something with energy you can wait until after the emp:s hit to make those 3-4 replicants in high templars and storm their army. The possibilities are practically endless and it will make the protoss race that much more flexible. And how do you balance this? Tweak its cost, build time, required supply etc. You’ll hardly be creating any new unbeatable combos by replicating your own units and the fact that you have to invest in a robo to get them makes it counterproductive to include replicants in any sort of tech rush.
I’m however against the concept that it can copy your enemies units as I believe that protoss should stick to protoss, terran to terran and zerg to zerg. You shouldn’t have to resort to “making” other races spellcasters (or any other unit) to win and the fact that you would have real no control over whether they actually make a unit or not does nothing but elevate the issue. However the fact that even being able to copy your own units’ gives protoss so many options make it so that I want the replicant to stay. My suggestion would as such just be to remove the part about it being able to copy units you don’t control.
Because it sounds like you can't replicate your own units.
Well I've seen it be done. They just didn't show it in the demo (a mistake imo).
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On October 25 2011 02:30 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:09 ptrpb wrote:On October 25 2011 02:05 Chicane wrote:On October 25 2011 02:01 VirgilSC2 wrote:
The only unit that is cost efficient to replicate is the Immortal
Anything else you are paying vastly more for. I fail to see how getting a banshee early on, which would then have cloak, would be ineffecient, assuming you could do some damage with it. On October 25 2011 02:02 ptrpb wrote:
honestly I would replicate a drone and create a hatch just to make overlords
scouting for protoss for the cost of 100 minerals? baby pleaaaaase That would be terrible.... unless you want super slow scouts in the mid game, or you are willing to get a spawning pool, a lair, and then overlord speed just so you can sacrifice overlords in their base for EVEN MORE MONEY all because you are too lazy to simply upgrade hallucination. Terrible idea. you don't use them to scout your opponent , you put them around your base to check for drops. yes you can do the same with observers but then you lose robo production imo. but this way you only spent minerals and if you lose them you don't lose supply. i just think it'd be a fun way to use replicate Fun? Yeah it could definitely be fun in non serious games, but I thought you were talking about a competitive game. You may as well build pylons around or patrol zealots around and save all the time, minerals, gas and trouble. Yes they can't float over ledges, but they will still do a nearly equivalent job.
what about on maps that have many high ground sections and lots of air-only space around the base. yes you could build pylons everywhere but you risk losing them to lings and subsequently getting supply blocked unless you made an extra pylon for every one you put outside your base. i'm no pro player but i wouldn't say its a completely useless tactic.
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So if i can replicate an scv or drone then build a hatchery or so on. Can i chrono boost those buildings?
This seems way too messed up I hope blizzard trashes this idea. Even though im a toss player i'd rather have a toss unit.
On a side note if i replicate vipers, i can make any unit a detector :O badass! Hook battles!
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On October 25 2011 02:45 galivet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:44 Teiwaz wrote:
Oh, btw...
Anyone else getting remembered of the Engineer from, right, C&C? Oh Dusty... you did it again... Wasn't that a sabotage unit?
Innitially no, I think they changed it later though (RA3 maybe?). It used to capture a building from your opponent. I remember mass dropping Engineers in C&C to capture and sell my enemies buildings 
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On October 25 2011 02:50 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:45 galivet wrote:On October 25 2011 02:44 Teiwaz wrote:
Oh, btw...
Anyone else getting remembered of the Engineer from, right, C&C? Oh Dusty... you did it again... Wasn't that a sabotage unit? Innitially no, I think they changed it later though (RA2 maybe?). It used to capture a building from your opponent. I remember mass dropping Engineers in C&C to capture and sell my enemies buildings
lol fun times
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One question I had, is that whether a replicant can replicate multiple times or just a single time (until it dies). Sorry I might have missed something! but this would be useful to know.
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On October 25 2011 02:42 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 00:39 ZXRP wrote:On October 25 2011 00:34 FagaX wrote:
Didn't they say that you cannot replicate workers? No, this was answered directly by Browder and Kim in the Q&A session. You can copy workers, but the intimated that it isn't really worth it apart from getting your hands on an orbital. getting access to all your opponents tech isnt worth 200/200? I would in the late game 100% .
You would still have to invest ridiculous amounts into fleshing out a second race's tech tree.
It's not a matter of replicating an SCV and then having access to marines. You get an SCV, build a CC, build a Barracks, and then you can produce marines at a pathetic rate. Your marines will suck compared to your opponents', since you'll have far less, and no upgrades for them. To make them comparable you'd have to make a Factory, Engineering Bays, Starports (Medivac support is essential), and a huge Barracks count to produce enough of them. At this point you might as well have picked Terran because that's where you're spending all your resources.
It will be a very very rare scenario in which completing teching up as another race will be worth it.
That said, the Replicator sounds very powerful for fighting off all-ins. 1/1/1 will be easily held off, I think: if it's a Raven variant, replicate a Raven and Seeker Missile his Marines. If there's no Raven, replicate a Banshee and cloak it, repeat until he has no scans. DT rushes in PvP will be an instant loss against Robotics openings, since once detected by an Observer you can replicate the DT and your opponent won't be able to stop it.
I don't see much application for the unit in PvZ. A single Infestor isn't much use, and there's nothing else I could imagine wanting to copy for 200/200.
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For those of you wanting to replicate an SCV and get orbitals, it would still cost 800 minerals and 230s (almost 4 minutes) before you got there. At an 800 mineral investment, it would take an additional 5 minutes of MULE mining before you saw a positive return on your investment. After 9 minutes of play, you'd finally have an "advantage" in economy, assuming you both did nothing to each other.
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On October 25 2011 02:44 Teiwaz wrote:
Oh, btw...
Anyone else getting remembered of the Engineer from, right, C&C? Oh Dusty... you did it again...
this is nothing like the engi... I don't know where you got that at all
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On October 25 2011 02:52 Ashes wrote:
One question I had, is that whether a replicant can replicate multiple times or just a single time (until it dies). Sorry I might have missed something! but this would be useful to know.
I'm 75% certain it's one time. People haven't reported multiple transformations, which to me would seem like a rather memorable point.
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On October 25 2011 02:52 Ashes wrote:
One question I had, is that whether a replicant can replicate multiple times or just a single time (until it dies). Sorry I might have missed something! but this would be useful to know.
A single time.
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On October 25 2011 02:47 Twinmold wrote:
For the 200/0 for the warp prism and the 200/200 for the replicant would it really be that imbalanced (you can't warp in the replicant so if you lose the warp prism you also lose the replicant)? The +2 baneling drop against protoss is atleast that effective.
Khaydarin was 150/150 110secs + Storm 200/200 110secs (=cost of a replicant), so it comes 220secs sooner without chrono, with two storms ready and you can be building the warp prism and the replicant while the archives are warping in.
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So this is the unit who will put an end to infetors in PvZ: replicate infestor, fungal, outrange almost every unit the zerg 90 % of the time have when they also got infestor and let the laughing begin. Banshees whould be super gamble in TvP for obvious reasons.
I don't think this unit will go through beta.
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EPT
