EPTPossible targets for the replicator - Page 13
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:01 zex66 wrote: If you do build an orbital I wonder if you can transfer probes to mine there or will you have to use SCVs. Also can you chrono boost (if its still in the game) your terran structures? Can SCVs repair the toss buildings and units? You can use probes You can boost non toss buildings. SCVs can repair toss units, and probably toss buildings. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On October 25 2011 02:55 domovoi wrote: No, the command center isn't an extra cost, because you can use it as an expansion (you were going to expand, right?). The supply depot isn't an extra cost, because it can replace a pylon. That leaves 300 minerals for barracks and the upgrade. That's one mule. It's still 6 minutes before you see a benefit if you count the costs as normal costs. There will be no using it on a normal expand because it takes too long to get. You'd have to get it as a fast 3rd, but the sunk costs will make you vulnerable to timing pushes in the meantime. By the point it becomes a useful acquisition, it will be at a point where some other decisions would probably be less risky and more beneficial. | ||
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
On October 25 2011 02:56 Zarent wrote: You, again, are completely overstating the Replicant's usefulness. For instance, in your marine example, you say that you see the huge ball of marines come up to your door and you somehow have time to warp in a Templar (presumably without storm researched, because if it is, why would you possibly need a replicant to be chronobosted out), as well as chronoboosting out a replicant. The replicant then, of course, replicates your own HT. We're not even sure at this point if you can replicate your own units, but thats beyond the point. In addition, despite Storm being researched, we still have NO IDEA how much energy the ReplicatedHT will start out with. In addition, 200/200 would be enough to get 2 more sentries and a zealot. Adding in the replicator solves no core issues of the Protoss race. tl;dr - You're thinking of new usages for this useless unit without any backup of stats. Yes, the majority of Protoss players are writing it off as a worthless waste of space, but that's because it's just completely a filler unit that solves no core problems. A replicant can copy your own units and I'm fairly certain that I read somewhere that the replicant gets full energy when it replicates a caster. As for your other points I'm talking about when the ball leaves their base ofc (you can scout can't you?) and two storms affect a battle a hell of alot more than 2 forcefields and a zealot would. The replicant just in general solves many of the issues protoss have atm with their tech tree in that the different wings are so seperated. | ||
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[uci] Fizik
United States263 Posts
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:04 DuneBug wrote: I think this is a dumb unit... If it was limited to replicating your own units, I'd like it more. Protoss has always been about whomping your opponents with expensive beefy units and spells, not copying your opponent's units. I see potential in being able to copy your own stuff, making replicants instead of immortals and morphing them to whatever you need when the time comes... But that sounds a lot like zerg larva. I'm also worried about stupid cheeses like a replicant void ray rush or something. Are protoss going to be replicating siege tanks and doing tank pushes? Or infestors with fungal growth? Because both of those just sound totally stupid. Hope this doesn't make it through play-testing, it's such a terrible idea that sounds like something out of C&C. If anyone should've gotten this build it should've been zerg but its too similar to neural parasite. I agree. I wouldn't worry too much about cheeses though, if you are going to voidray rush why would not just get another stargate instead of a robo? | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:05 aksfjh wrote: It's still 6 minutes before you see a benefit if you count the costs as normal costs. There will be no using it on a normal expand because it takes too long to get. You'd have to get it as a fast 3rd, but the sunk costs will make you vulnerable to timing pushes in the meantime. By the point it becomes a useful acquisition, it will be at a point where some other decisions would probably be less risky and more beneficial. It's not that much in sunk cost. You basically replace one colossus with one replicator turned scv. I think that can easily be made up with the fact that scvs can repair colossi. | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:05 aksfjh wrote: It's still 6 minutes before you see a benefit if you count the costs as normal costs. There will be no using it on a normal expand because it takes too long to get. You'd have to get it as a fast 3rd, but the sunk costs will make you vulnerable to timing pushes in the meantime. By the point it becomes a useful acquisition, it will be at a point where some other decisions would probably be less risky and more beneficial. How is it much slower then a regular expand? Unless your build is dependent on 100% robo utilization for collusus the CC would come at the same time as your regular third/fourth, with the sunk cost only being 200/200, and if your defense at that point comes down to 200/200 in units then it is darn thin for that point in the game. The orbital itself would be later, but the CC is just as good as the nexus at that point, if not better(liftoff). | ||
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rbx270j
Canada540 Posts
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Gijian
United States273 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:07 [uci] Fizik wrote: What happens if you replicate a mule does it become a perma mule? 4 supply and 200/200 for a mule is definitely not worth it. | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:04 DuneBug wrote: I think this is a dumb unit... If it was limited to replicating your own units, I'd like it more. Protoss has always been about whomping your opponents with expensive beefy units and spells, not copying your opponent's units. I actually like this idea. It makes the unit less of a gamble of what your opponent is building and more of a calculated decision (time efficiency/flexibility vs cost/supply efficiency), not to mention solves most abuse cases. I personally think it's a very "Zergy" unit (adaptation), but I think it fills better fills a hole in Protoss' gameplay. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:04 Gijian wrote: I definitely see commentators going to have a hay day informing about protoss eco in HotS. "Look like our protoss player is up in workers! 25 probes and 32 SCVs with MULE, his eco is going thru the roof!" Not to mention the ability to construct all unit at end game, making it the most ludicrous death ball. I seriously doubt the ability to replicate worker is going to be left there. It's just literally open up a can of worm in the balance. How often do you see Zerg players neural parasite a Probe and build a Nexus? Granted it's somewhat less convenient, but it's still not as effective a strategy as you might think. In over 10 years of professional Brood War I can only think of two examples where enemy workers were mind controlled, and one of them was the longest game ever played. | ||
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:10 rbx270j wrote: Replicate Vipers. Imagine Broodlords with a range of 1. the blinding cloud only effects ground units... so only terran get owned by this since both broodlords and colossus are technically flying units... | ||
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rbx270j
Canada540 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:13 XerrolAvengerII wrote: the blinding cloud only effects ground units... so only terran get owned by this since both broodlords and colossus are technically flying units... Aw, that makes me sad  | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43762 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:41 Balgrog wrote: Yea forgot about that, but still, PvP with ghost's would be really interesting. You can't replicate ghosts if it's a PvP -.-' You would get ghosts as Protoss if it's PvT, where the ghosts wouldn't be nearly as important to have on the Protoss side. | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:12 Alzadar wrote: How often do you see Zerg players neural parasite a Probe and build a Nexus? Granted it's somewhat less convenient, but it's still not as effective a strategy as you might think. In over 10 years of professional Brood War I can only think of two examples where enemy workers were mind controlled, and one of them was the longest game ever played. "somewhat less convenient"? Replicating a drone or scv is extremely easy. Just fly an ob over to their mineral line. That's it! BW Mind Control was difficult because you had to find a way to get your dark archon deep into their base, then find a way to get the worker out of their base. NP is also hard given the time limit and having to be near their base. Your opponent will be aware of it and will go out and kill the nexus/cc given its proximity to his base. | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:12 Alzadar wrote: How often do you see Zerg players neural parasite a Probe and build a Nexus? Granted it's somewhat less convenient, but it's still not as effective a strategy as you might think. In over 10 years of professional Brood War I can only think of two examples where enemy workers were mind controlled, and one of them was the longest game ever played. The big difference I see is that Brood War did not have MULES. This is the real utility of it. As far as NP, its pretty awkward to make a CC with NP, as you would have to chain NP it for a long time to get it up. For Zerg, with their hatchery mechanics a Nexus is just worse then a hatchery, but for Protoss unless you need more energy, a CC is just better. | ||
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Executrix
Netherlands36 Posts
All speculation ofc since we don't really know yet what's gonna work and what's not gonna work. | ||
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