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On October 25 2011 03:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:18 Foirtchern wrote:
What about Medivacs? Maybe not the most cost effective, but chargelot drops with Medivac support could be pretty damned awesome :D Now this I can get behind! Dropping with one warp prism + a bunch of medivacs? Or a push with mass blink stalkers? Not just to micro away from battle, but to be instantly healed by 4 or 5 medivacs!
I dont think medivacs can heal stalkers. Actually Scvs can repair them
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On October 25 2011 03:20 Gijian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:12 Alzadar wrote:On October 25 2011 03:04 Gijian wrote:
I definitely see commentators going to have a hay day informing about protoss eco in HotS. "Look like our protoss player is up in workers! 25 probes and 32 SCVs with MULE, his eco is going thru the roof!" Not to mention the ability to construct all unit at end game, making it the most ludicrous death ball. I seriously doubt the ability to replicate worker is going to be left there. It's just literally open up a can of worm in the balance. How often do you see Zerg players neural parasite a Probe and build a Nexus? Granted it's somewhat less convenient, but it's still not as effective a strategy as you might think. In over 10 years of professional Brood War I can only think of two examples where enemy workers were mind controlled, and one of them was the longest game ever played. First off, the ability to take an enemy unit is not like anything we have seen up until now. NP is putting the infestor dangerous position. Why would a probe be running around the map by itself to allow infestors to steal it? In contrast Replicator can just take the unit from inside the base and use the SCVs to expand inside his base then move out just like the terran do, safe expansion. Same goes with BW days, the ability to take a unit in the safety of the base vs having to stumble across on the map.
Ummmm you do realize that in BW there was mind control......and its not "that" hard to do it...hell someone opened dts and did it against [oops]cloud in a televised game to transition to zealot/tank.
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On October 25 2011 03:24 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 25 2011 03:18 Foirtchern wrote:
What about Medivacs? Maybe not the most cost effective, but chargelot drops with Medivac support could be pretty damned awesome :D Now this I can get behind! Dropping with one warp prism + a bunch of medivacs? Or a push with mass blink stalkers? Not just to micro away from battle, but to be instantly healed by 4 or 5 medivacs! I dont think medivacs can heal stalkers. Actually Scvs can repair them
Yup, stalkers are mechanical.
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Siege Tanks.
Terran opens with 1-1-1. You chrono out a few Replicants and build 3/4 Gates and all-in. Replicate the first siege tank that comes out, and you'll have 2 or 3 siege tanks with siege mode vs 1 siege tank without siege mode. GG.
This all-in will replace the VR all-in vs Terran. Basically Terran is going to have to open with Bio every game.
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Chrono out a few replicants that cost 200-200? Toss wont have the econ to support that so early in the game.
The best unit to replicate will be the raven mark my words. You instantly get all its upgrades and you can cast emp/seeker missle against marauders
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So I'm more confused-- does this unit allow the opponent to mind control an scv or drone? That 200/200 price tag is worth that alone. Supplementing your army with different units is super cool.
But oh do I miss the deays of BW and mind control 400 food armies :D
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On October 25 2011 03:25 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:20 Gijian wrote:On October 25 2011 03:12 Alzadar wrote:On October 25 2011 03:04 Gijian wrote:
I definitely see commentators going to have a hay day informing about protoss eco in HotS. "Look like our protoss player is up in workers! 25 probes and 32 SCVs with MULE, his eco is going thru the roof!" Not to mention the ability to construct all unit at end game, making it the most ludicrous death ball. I seriously doubt the ability to replicate worker is going to be left there. It's just literally open up a can of worm in the balance. How often do you see Zerg players neural parasite a Probe and build a Nexus? Granted it's somewhat less convenient, but it's still not as effective a strategy as you might think. In over 10 years of professional Brood War I can only think of two examples where enemy workers were mind controlled, and one of them was the longest game ever played. First off, the ability to take an enemy unit is not like anything we have seen up until now. NP is putting the infestor dangerous position. Why would a probe be running around the map by itself to allow infestors to steal it? In contrast Replicator can just take the unit from inside the base and use the SCVs to expand inside his base then move out just like the terran do, safe expansion. Same goes with BW days, the ability to take a unit in the safety of the base vs having to stumble across on the map. Ummmm you do realize that in BW there was mind control......and its not "that" hard to do it...hell someone opened dts and did it against [oops]cloud in a televised game to transition to zealot/tank.
It's still way harder than the replicator.
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On October 25 2011 03:21 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:18 Lumpybd wrote:
Zerg's latest Roach/ling/infestor build looks set to roll you, replicate their composition and go toe-to-toe with them. How exactly would you do that? Let's ignore, that each unit would cost 200/200 and take 4 supply. You would have to build them in advance and he could still just roll you with zerglings.
Because while you are building up your army and expanding the way you normally would, you will also be squeezing replicants into the mix. That way, when the opponents push arrives, you can immediately adjust your composition as necessary.
I'm not saying you would match them on numbers... The cost of the a replicant makes that impossible. What I am saying is that you have the ability to instantly adjust your composition to react to pretty much anything.
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On October 25 2011 03:24 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 25 2011 03:18 Foirtchern wrote:
What about Medivacs? Maybe not the most cost effective, but chargelot drops with Medivac support could be pretty damned awesome :D Now this I can get behind! Dropping with one warp prism + a bunch of medivacs? Or a push with mass blink stalkers? Not just to micro away from battle, but to be instantly healed by 4 or 5 medivacs! I dont think medivacs can heal stalkers. Actually Scvs can repair them
Ah, that's too bad  SCVs wouldn't be able to keep up with moving (let alone blinking) stalkers to repair.
I do like the ability for innovation here though.
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On October 25 2011 03:20 Gijian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 03:12 Alzadar wrote:On October 25 2011 03:04 Gijian wrote:
I definitely see commentators going to have a hay day informing about protoss eco in HotS. "Look like our protoss player is up in workers! 25 probes and 32 SCVs with MULE, his eco is going thru the roof!" Not to mention the ability to construct all unit at end game, making it the most ludicrous death ball. I seriously doubt the ability to replicate worker is going to be left there. It's just literally open up a can of worm in the balance. How often do you see Zerg players neural parasite a Probe and build a Nexus? Granted it's somewhat less convenient, but it's still not as effective a strategy as you might think. In over 10 years of professional Brood War I can only think of two examples where enemy workers were mind controlled, and one of them was the longest game ever played. First off, the ability to take an enemy unit is not like anything we have seen up until now. NP is putting the infestor dangerous position. Why would a probe be running around the map by itself to allow infestors to steal it? In contrast Replicator can just take the unit from inside the base and use the SCVs to expand inside his base then move out just like the terran do, safe expansion. Same goes with BW days, the ability to take a unit in the safety of the base vs having to stumble across on the map.
People scout with Probes all the time, and lay proxy Pylons all over the map. In BW it really wasn't that hard to drop a Dark Archon in the enemy base, Mind Control a worker and then make good your escape.
No, the reason it wasn't/isn't done is because it is prohibitively expensive to climb two tech trees, to the point where it's only a viable strategy in an already won game. Stealing SCVs just for Orbital Commands is another matter though.
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Replicate a svc, build a command center and a engineering bay and make a planitary at the gold FTW
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I think one target of the Replicator I haven't seen mentioned are Void Rays and Oracles. Protoss need a Robo for Observers, but if you're going Stargate then you're going to have a lot of idle Robo time. By making Replicators out of the Robo you can reduce the number of Stargates you need by 1. And in the case of Void Rays and Oracles, you're only down 50 resources by making a copy instead of the raw unit.
There's other timing stuff too. Like rushing HT, and getting Storm earlier than normal because you copy your own high templar instead of waiting for storm reasearch to finish.
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I'm wondering if the replicated units will be 3/3 upgraded too. If they are then the price isn't bad at all for 200/200.
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On October 25 2011 03:38 WillDerBeast wrote:
I'm wondering if the replicated units will be 3/3 upgraded too. If they are then the price isn't bad at all for 200/200.
Yes...
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I didnt pick toss, and i think many tosses would agree, to play p/t or p/z. Will never copy a t or z unit out of pure principal.
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I saw you can pretty much make only Replicators, and move out, make what ever they have + a couple zelots and w/e else. Could def come in handy if they have tanks and marines, and u have zel and reps. make their tanks and destroy his army. this is coming from a zerg so i dont know if what im saying helps.
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Rofl. Nobody said you have to take an SCV And commit to building stuff. You could simply use them to get 3 ghosts in your army or a few siege tanks.
It is crazy to see everyone running around aimlessly because of this patch. Use your head some bigger units and siege units are worth stealing.
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On October 25 2011 00:42 Yaotzin wrote:Saddening Replicating a DT if you open robo and they DT rush would be pretty hilarious.
shh, dont tell them ^^
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Is it confirmed that the replicator has infinite range?? Ie. you could replicate something in your base while having vision with an observer?
I don't like how this unit is shaping up at all because as it looks now it's not effective to copy your own units, since you need to be able to make it first anyway and then you're better off simply building the unit then replicating it as the replicator is more expensive then anything you have.
Thus it's best use by far is against enemy tech units (they are most expensive) where you can use the free upgrades to punish them. For example a raven with PDD to own marauders (which they have to make) or even HSM to kill packs of rines/scv's. A banshee is another great target as you apparently get a banshee with cloak for just 200/200 which easily forces the terran into expensive scans or turrets.
As a result the existence of this unit in this form actively punishes especially terran for going certain tech units. What good is banshee harass anymore if the same tech that counters the cloak banshee also stomps you hard back for having made a banshee. What good is a raven opening if your just giving the opponent a shot to get a cheap raven with upgrades. What good are tanks even if you're giving the opponent easy access to a few siege tanks.
Yes in each case the P will pay more then T did but some of the units are much better in a protoss army, if you are forced into bio by P's tactic but also have to face siege tanks life gets hard..
I don't see the unit making it through the beta in this way and probably not at all. Stupid mechanic to punish your opponent for playing non standard.
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Do we know how much energy replicated units will start with? Imagine the scenario. A terran opens up 1-1-1 with a Raven for pdd. You replicate it.
Hunter seeker missile.
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EPT
