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Why on earth would Protoss need an air caster? That's ridiculous.
I mean, Protoss ALREADY has the most offensive casters in the game:
Sentry: very powerful and versatile
HT: very powerful and versatile
Terran also has two offensive casters, but players haven't needed to rely on them yet (too many useful techpaths already). The ghost is finally being used while the raven seems less useful but is also unexplored.
And finally there's Zerg with only one real offensive caster, which is damn good though. The queen is just a walking macro mechanic with inject and tumor. Heal has its moments, but usually while defending and extremely rarely when attacking.. definitely not a powerful caster in that sense..
So yeah, Protoss has the least need for an offensive caster. Maybe it's the replacement of the Collossus, since that unit has a failed design. Powerful, siege range AND being mobile AND easy to use is a failure in design.
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The colossus bashing sounds like a lot of bandwaggoning to me. You were so up in arms about how imbalanced it was and then when you had to eat crow you just fell back on 'well I still don't like it'. The cliff-walking and even the range to a large extent are quality of life issues rather than actual advantages 99% of the time. The thing is so large and so slow that if it wasn't able to walk over units or had decent range, it would be beyond useless. You think 9 range is long, but that's only 3 more range than the stalker/marauder, as opposed to the tank's +7 range. In almost all cases, it's a ranged support unit, not a 'siege' unit.
EDIT: If you want to complain about the 'failed' unit design, then I suggest you direct your wrath at the need for aoe damage to supplement gateway armies. That's not the fault of the colossus. If you remove the colossus, you'd have to replace it with an equally powerful unit. God forbid we should have a tier 3 unit that can compete with stimmed marauders.
I'm not surprised that the new protoss unit is an air unit. I feel like all of the air units, especially the air to air ones, are on the chopping block. Corruptor has already been mentioned. The landing viking hasn't really panned out the way they'd hoped. I wouldn't be surprised if the phoenix didn't follow suit. Then again, the void ray is a pretty poorly (I say poorly- it's an amazing unit that seems impossible to balance.) designed unit that teeters between useless and overpowered and doesn't seem to fulfill any role (short of anti-air less zerg with b'lords) very well. Of course, the history of Protoss has been smashing square pegs into round holes.
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On October 20 2011 05:07 Archontas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 03:10 Zorgaz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2011 02:48 skipgamer wrote:To produce these I basically did my own photoshop level adjustments, and drew lines over wherever I could see obvious lines in the image, then I just filled it with colour and added a blured overlay of the original image, so I'm guessing it will look something like one of these. The first one is with probe style colours, then dt style colours, then stalker style colours. ![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3739/newsc2protossunit.jpg) Nicely painted! Yeah, very cool, nice job  That first one is almost exactly what I imagine its actually going to look like.
Looks more like it has the stalker/VR colors in some of the edited silhouettes, but that could just as easily be the lighting.
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maybe because P is struggling a little bit lately... a flying mule-marine?
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i find it very hard to believe they will remove either colossus or marauder, the two units people frequently say they want to be gone, as they are also pretty popular and important units at every skilllevel. carrier, mothership and corrupter...those are the units that lack both usefullness and/or depth enough to make them endangered : )
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batman switching to toss was the best !!
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On October 19 2011 17:05 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 16:58 grappasc wrote:
what's different about sc1 carrier micro compared to sc2 carrier micro? the interceptors remain deployed while moving in bw and they also regained shields when docking.
they also each did 6 damage every second instead of 8*2 every 3 seconds
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On October 20 2011 05:33 Jerubaal wrote:
The colossus bashing sounds like a lot of bandwaggoning to me. You were so up in arms about how imbalanced it was and then when you had to eat crow you just fell back on 'well I still don't like it'. The cliff-walking and even the range to a large extent are quality of life issues rather than actual advantages 99% of the time. The thing is so large and so slow that if it wasn't able to walk over units or had decent range, it would be beyond useless. You think 9 range is long, but that's only 3 more range than the stalker/marauder, as opposed to the tank's +7 range. In almost all cases, it's a ranged support unit, not a 'siege' unit.
EDIT: If you want to complain about the 'failed' unit design, then I suggest you direct your wrath at the need for aoe damage to supplement gateway armies. That's not the fault of the colossus. If you remove the colossus, you'd have to replace it with an equally powerful unit. God forbid we should have a tier 3 unit that can compete with stimmed marauders.
I'm not surprised that the new protoss unit is an air unit. I feel like all of the air units, especially the air to air ones, are on the chopping block. Corruptor has already been mentioned. The landing viking hasn't really panned out the way they'd hoped. I wouldn't be surprised if the phoenix didn't follow suit. Then again, the void ray is a pretty poorly (I say poorly- it's an amazing unit that seems impossible to balance.) designed unit that teeters between useless and overpowered and doesn't seem to fulfill any role (short of anti-air less zerg with b'lords) very well. Of course, the history of Protoss has been smashing square pegs into round holes.
Agreed, especially about the need for AOE to supplement Gateway armies.
I rather like the Colossus although, IMO, it does need some re-working not least because air counters to it then also nullify Protoss air as a viable tech option in itself. I hope this new unit, which does look like a SG unit can help address that. I also hope they keep the VR as that is a cool unit with some good ideas behind it, although perhaps its execution was lacking. The Phoenix is a good unit too, but its Graviton beam needs reworking - its too gimmicky a thing, IMO, much like the hardened shield on the Immortal. Anyway, I think this new unit looks cool. I just hope it is cool to use too and effective.
Blizzcon should be good.
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Protoss MULE i called it!!!
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On October 20 2011 02:48 skipgamer wrote:To produce these I basically did my own photoshop level adjustments, and drew lines over wherever I could see obvious lines in the image, then I just filled it with colour and added a blured overlay of the original image, so I'm guessing it will look something like one of these. The first one is with probe style colours, then dt style colours, then stalker style colours.
Pretty sick, however you forgot with Batman Theme, obviously it's a hero unit that comes from the batman cave!
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On October 20 2011 03:39 Musketeer wrote:
Unfortunately, infestors come out before colossus.
If I tech up in what you might call a standard way, (via a gateway army off of a FFE), there is a large timing window where your infestors will arrive and I won't have colossus. I won't even have enough templar. But if I set aside enough resources for colossus or templar, I'm vulnerable to a straight-up roach/hydra push. To have any kind of stability I need colossus before I can push against infestors.
It's the exact same thing. After the colossus-corruptor balance has been achieved in midgame (IE both players are on even ground), the same thing happens with broodlords and void rays. Brood lords must, then, be a unit that is too strong and simple to use, as they can only be hard countered with other units in a narrow timing window, rather than soft-countered with tactics and skill while army composition is adjusted. With Zerg, however, the timing window is so ridiculously small. A Protoss player has to sit around for a long time to get sufficient colossus, and they're extremely vulnerable during this time. With Brood lords and corruptors, as soon as you decide to build them, they're out within seconds.
With the exception of the last sentence, which is the kind of silliness someone comes out with when they stop thinking at 'hatcheries produce everything', I kind of agree. Kind of. You're just missing out a few steps.
In the past, infestors didn't do the kind of ruinous DPS they do today. Why were they buffed? Because Zerg armies couldn't cope with colossus. Colossus had a hard unit counter (corruptor) but no tactical counter, and the uselessness of Corruptors for any other purpose made the line Zerg had to walk in building their anti-deathball far too fine to be called 'balanced'. So Blizzard was forced to contrive a unit counter to the army supporting the Colossus: increased infestor DPS.
So because you have the ability to make Colossus, you end up obliged to make them.
Broodlords and Void Rays? I could be persuaded they have a similar relationship, but I'm not sure. Broodlords are incredibly slow and tortuous to tech towards (seriously, try it sometime), and if the Zerg retains enough corruptors to deal with VRs his ground army will be so paltry that blink stalkers will be very, very strong. Broodlords don't contribute anything like the ground DPS of Colossus, either. Infestors might have something to say about the stalkers, but again, mainly because of the buff they were given because of Colossus.
Still, like I said I could be persuaded on that count.
As I keep trying to stress, this isn't a balance complaint. I'm just contrasting good (mutalisk/marine/turret/thor) and bad (colossus/corruptor/infestor - you'll notice I mentioned them earlier) relationships in the game.
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Looks like the pokemon zubat. Or some buffing unit.
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It must be the protoss equivalent of a mule. Those electric fields looks like the particle beams used by the probe. Maybe it's used to mine..not to attack.
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It's a protoss mule, but it grabs 150 minerals at once and doesn't have a limited life. So you can fly to the enemy's base and steal minerals from their mineral line, depleting their income faster.
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It would be awesome if this thing were a flying reaver.
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On October 20 2011 08:46 Dr.Sin wrote:
It would be awesome if this thing were a flying reaver.
That would be far too powerful o-o
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On October 20 2011 08:47 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 08:46 Dr.Sin wrote:
It would be awesome if this thing were a flying reaver. That would be far too powerful o-o
Reactored vikings and corruptors disagree, I think.
Assuming the scarabs were air-to-ground only, anyway.
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On October 19 2011 06:27 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 06:23 YesAnotherSC2Player wrote:
I'm sorry, we need to nip this in the bud. According to Browder's OWN requirements, racial diversity must be maximized.
That's why they moved the mobile static d to zerg, because it didn't fit protoss.
That's why only Zerg has transformations.
That's why only terran has transformers.
We could go on.
sorry, bro, but that made no sense. protoss already has a unit that is being made some kind of transformation: the Archon. i highly doubt that blizzard would give terra and zerg a unit being made from another and not for toss. It makes perfect sense and I can go on. Two units combining to make a new unit is completely different from one unit changing into a new unit. Archon/Morph overlap is nothing compared to the overlap you suggest.
sure, is is their version of upgrading one unit to another. so maybe we are starring at two phoenix morphing to a enw unit.
however, well see that today or tomorrow.
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the yellow blue design looks really cool and is possible the design blizzard took for it
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On October 20 2011 05:25 Morphs wrote:
So yeah, Protoss has the least need for an offensive caster. Maybe it's the replacement of the Collossus, since that unit has a failed design. Powerful, siege range AND being mobile AND easy to use is a failure in design.
lulz, if anything I'd say it's a design failure because toss virtually requires it to beat terran and zerg t1/2 and can barely compete without storm or colossi tech.
I hope it's some type of core unit that gives protoss some better defensive capability early game.
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EPT
