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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. |
On October 13 2011 01:08 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 01:05 Clearout wrote:On October 13 2011 00:59 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I agree with the OP. I'm against censoring open discussion of results for the sake of a few odd people who are "victims" of spoilers. Their habits are weird enough for the rest of us to not care about them and they are obviously the minority. If they want a web site where results aren't openly discussed, they should make their own little niche web site and leave this one alone. But do you feel it necessary to flaunt the results of something many people would not like to be spoiled? He suggests having it be the first thing you see on TL. It's one thing complaining about the spoilers in an article or thread about the tournament finals, but another being spoiled because you wanted to check out the general section when you have not been able to watch the games yet. I think TL is about a lot more than SC for many, and I don't have the oppurtunity to watch most games until the day after or even longer in most cases. Should I completely miss out on everything else TL offers me in the meanwhile if I don't want to be spoilered? I don't give a shit about people who post in the General forum. We're in the SC2 forum here. If your interests lie elsewhere, then they lie elsewhere. Honestly anyone who would rather read the General forum than watch VOD's doesn't deserve any special treatment at the expense of everyone else. So there is a major expense to have people talking about results in the actual thread instead of it being headlined? Many people don't have the oppurtunity to watch the games when they please, be it work, family etc. They may have to postpone it for a day or two. Should they either stay away from TL altogether or 'stop caring about spoilers' then? Is it that important having results being the first thing you see? I don't see how it is much to give up to discuss games and spoilers where they belong.
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yeah i have to agree also, if there really is something you want to watch without being spoilered you shouldnt visit teamliquid.net, i have never really understood why people are always complaining about spoilers.
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On October 13 2011 01:05 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 00:59 caradoc wrote:
This is silly.
We have VoDs. People want to watch the VoDs. The people that can watch VoDs after the tournament is over is significant or a majority, depending on the tournament. The Superbowl does not have VoDs. The people that missed but can rewatch the Superbowl is a tiny tiny minority.
Hence why people care about spoilers.
That isn't the full explanation. Spoiler protection is there for people who want to browse TL.net between the time when the match they want to watch has aired and when they watch the VODs. What are they reading that interests them more than watching the actual content? Anyone who reads TL without watching anything obviously doesn't care about being spoiled. Anyone who reads TL to supplement their VOD watching has no reason to read TL if they haven't watched the VODs.
I can't really speak for people's motivation to watch VoDs at a particular time or not. I can think of several potential motivations for browsing TL without watching VoDs -- time, amount of attention you can devote at a particular moment, etc. I agree with your general sentiment though that actual content obviously (should) take(s) centre stage. I guess though unless we have actual numbers of people that watch VoDs for the first time after the tournament we won't really know what percentage of people this represents.
The bigger question is balancing the needs of the user base as a whole, without numbers we can only speculate on the effect on the community in general. Polls as in this thread give part of the picture, but again we don't know if a person voting against spoilers is positively impacted by their removal as much as a person voting for spoilers benefits from their presence.
I guess a potentially good solution that mitigates all these factors would be a time period where the presence of spoilers is the norm, and after which it becomes silly to have them-- this is already kind of standard practice though. I guess it also completely negates the possibility of having giant announcement hype banners right after a tournament, but is that really what we're clamouring for? It would take a pretty significant site redesign for that anyways.
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On October 13 2011 01:13 mustache wrote:Seems like recently everyone thinks they are some sort of "intellectual" and wants to propose revolutionary ideas which would catapult e-sports to a whole new level. This thread doesnt even offer discussion points, we know it's just gonna be various forms of"i like spoilers" and "i dont like spoilers" theres nothing to discuss, this is personal preferance and nothing more, do you really think people will change their mind about it if you make a thread? If you really wanted to change something you would suggest it to the TL mods in the site feedback section http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=7Ultimately this thread is just a "i dont liek something, who wants to whine with me" thread
I don't think you quite get it. Maybe you should read the discussion again? (It's only on page 4 now.)
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Simple solution would be to just add a tournament news section that is full of spoilers, just put a link to it somewhere on the mainpage.
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On October 13 2011 01:12 Talin wrote:
And it's not so much about front page results, it's more about being generally able to talk about games somewhere outside of LR thread.
For example, when posting in Strategy forum one can't freely talk about a build used in the GSL today or yesterday without some wise guy replying "thanks for spoiling GSL dude...".
My point about headlines is that it easier for casual viewers to get interested if they have a mainpage with latest results, which create hype, excitement and emotive connection to the game.
The spoilered forum threads is a whole other subject, and it concerns more people that are already esports geeks than possible newcomers. But I also agree that over-spoilering the threads is annoying. 
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You should make up your mind as to whether you can "respect" not wanting to be spoiled or whether people who feel that way are "freaks", but on topic ...
I'm one of those who usually try to find vods of important/interesting games without knowing the result beforehand, if I couldn't watch live. I don't get mad at spoilers, but they do detract from my excitement, and sometimes I don't go on to see the games because I stumbled over the results.
I think you also should take into consideration that the whole vod culture, which makes e-sports different from conventional (tv) sports, is a good thing. It makes it possible to fully enjoy the finals even if you don't catch them live as if it were live.
The trouble with avoiding e-sports sites like tl.net is that you often need these sites to find the vods. Otherwise I agree that one can simply avoid them to avoid spoilers (I often did that until I'd seen the matches I was interested in at GomTV). The solution would be some spoiler-free platform where all important vods could be found, something like a more complete sc2casts.com.
Addendum: Concerning the "hurting e-sports" thing, consider how Blizzard creates an asston of buzz by releasing tiny bits and pieces of incomplete information. It's called intrigue. Throwing everything in people's faces frontpage-style isn't the only way to create excitement.
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Solution: "Congratulations to the winner of the IPL3 (spoilers ahead):" as a headline, which links to an article which has said picture and some other cool stuff. No spoilers, but it's made pretty damn clear this was a big thing.
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I definitely agree with the OP.
I think it would make everything more serious.
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HEY EVERYONE CALM DOWN YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE HURTING E SPORTS
Couldn't there be like, a site option at the top or bottom (idk somewhere on it) saying
Enable Spoiler Tag
so that all articles on the main page containing spoilers would not appear to that user? That way it wouldn't affect any newcomers since they would never click it anyway, but the users that don't want spoilers could just live on regularly without the threat of such a front page article spoiling it for them.
Just an idea.
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You can already hide forums/sections in your account. Maybe a feature "hide e-sports" could added to the user profile.
Matches already played don't bother me, I only watch them when I like the players/teams or they provide some awesome play.
Live-Coverage builds up hype (LR-Threads not so convincingly since they more based on comments than live reports) and I like that.
But I agree to a certain extent to a spoiler-free vod section.
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In response to the OP, you said that when a major tournament is happening there is basically nothing changed on the TL main page. Nothing is there, not even a ambiguous backdrop of all the players sitting around smiling while the event goes on. It's not the lack of the 'this specific guy won' excitement, but the connection to the events that TL should have.
At least, that's my opinion.
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i mean i dunno the finals were kinda horrible lol nothing really to hype about. If anything you should be hyping about 80% of the other games played in the tournament because they were amazing. Need I even mention kiwikaki vs stephano Game 2?? Cause that should've been front page not the finals O_o
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its less about the timezones but more about vods being so easily accessible for everyone
thats why many just dont bother watching live and dont want to get spoiled before watching the vods
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agreed. It's silly that people would even think to come to tl and not have the results of x tournament showing. I think they're spoiled. Teehee
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It's always bothered me how "spoiling" games is treated on this forum.
People don't go on NFL.com on Mondays and cry because the scores and banners are all over the page "spoiling" Sunday's games.
because that would be retarded. so.......?
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I agree with the OP. Remember that Seinfeld episode where Jerry taped a big game, and sheltered himself from any spoilers until he could watch it?
He didn't go browse espn.com and then complain that it announced the winner of the game before he could watch it.
This isn't much different.
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IMO, people who cry about spoilers are more excited to cry about things being spoiled than they are about discussing or watching the actual game.
Even people who did watch the game LOVE to jump on anyone about a spoiler. Personally I attribute this to people being little bitches on the internet. "OOH I CAN CREATE DRAMA!! O NOES"
I think that if anyone cares enough about the results, they will watch it live.
That being said, I think it is common courtesy that if you are going to start a thread, title it "IGN CHAMPIONSHIP RESULTS!" instead of "STEPHANO WINS IGN!"
snape kills dumbledore..
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On October 13 2011 01:16 Le BucheRON wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 01:13 mustache wrote:Seems like recently everyone thinks they are some sort of "intellectual" and wants to propose revolutionary ideas which would catapult e-sports to a whole new level. This thread doesnt even offer discussion points, we know it's just gonna be various forms of"i like spoilers" and "i dont like spoilers" theres nothing to discuss, this is personal preferance and nothing more, do you really think people will change their mind about it if you make a thread? If you really wanted to change something you would suggest it to the TL mods in the site feedback section http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=7Ultimately this thread is just a "i dont liek something, who wants to whine with me" thread I don't think you quite get it. Maybe you should read the discussion again? (It's only on page 4 now.)
ill use the OPs sum of the first post:
Most sports websites are instantly updated with headlines of the big events, this helps create a connection between the crowd and the sport, mostly for the casual viewers. This connection is absent with Teamliquid and the SC2 community because of the “spoiler fear”. TL mainpage should be updated with headlines results of the big events and a spoiler-free gateway could be created for the spoilers freaks.
none of this is a discussion. again if people want to suggest site improvement why not use the feedback forum? Well probably because most people don't actually care about a change and hence will never visit that forum. If they don't really care why are they posting in this thread? Just because they feel the need to offer their insight on a topic they randomly saw, but dont really care about. which boils down to what i said:
This thread doesnt even offer discussion points, we know it's just gonna be various forms of"i like spoilers" and "i dont like spoilers"
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On October 13 2011 00:59 Woizit wrote:
2. SC2 matches are decided in a series of games. In other words, knowing the scores removes any tension left in a game before the end of the series. This is very different from sports like soccer, football or hockey where 1 game holds a much greater significance.
How does this make any sense what so ever? if anything, there's more tension since you might just know that the score was in a sc2 match 3-2 but you don't know who won what game, while if it's a soccer game you know the score to be 2-0 and you know no matter what, sometime in the game that one team is going to score twice.
Edit: I think the spoilerfree shit is 100% stupid, when I see a write-up 1-2 weeks later I'm like.. why, why would I want to read this? I don't care about this any longer. (perhaps not exactly like that, but pretty much)
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EPT
