We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled.
To say that spoilers are hurting e-sports seems a little extreme. We all know why spoilers are used and the reasoning behind them. It's a sign of respect to those who didn't get to watch the live broadcast and want to go watch the VODs later. But, we owe more respect to the players who participate in these tournaments.
Tournament champions should be featured on the front page here at Team Liquid. If they battled through the tournament and won, the least we can do is acknowledge their winning and bring awareness to it. Personally, I know that had I not watched IPL3 I most likely wouldn't be aware of who won and exactly how hard he worked through the bracket to earn that championship.
It's understandable people want to watch the VODs later and find out for themselves, but we as a community should be supporting the pro-gamers who win championships and be able to recognize their success without have to keep it all hush-hush.
And there was an article published recently that showed that knowing the results of a game/movie/whatever doesn't influence negatively your anticipation or excitement for the event, or during it, as you watch a replay.
And? When I get spoiled I just don't watch it.
Also sporting events are completely different, If I'm going to watch Manchester United win a cup, then I watch it on TV, I don't have to go to a website in order to watch it. I wonder how many people who would watch that Man Utd game would go to the actual website? not many really. Whereas how many people who watch SC go to TL? 99.999999999999999999999999%
most people (52% ) think it takes ~1 or 2 days before you can assume someone getting spoiled is there own fault.
So, since most people probably recognize that nobody can watch all starcraft live (especially since there are major tournaments for sc2 in korea, us, and europe; bw is exclusively korea), it's just a matter of "not giving a fuck" about spoilers to people.
And frankly I find that attitude fairly disgusting. Tl.net is about multiple games, multiple communities, and people browse here all the time from work/after events finished/whatever with the full intention of watching vods soon after. TL.net is not just a news site for sc2 progaming.
I for one don't want a gigantic picture of jangbi on tl.net the moment after he wins an osl finals, nor do I want a gigantic picture of stephano or whoever after winning an sc2 tournament. At least not for 24 hours of the event.
Nor do I want people bitching about getting spoiled or about which results warrant front page media coverage (which will happen, I guarantee). And I don't want anyone's viewing experience ruined by spoilers.
The big difference between these two posts is that the TSL post is asking how long should we wait, with no option saying "instant post." This post is saying, should we wait at all. Obviously more people think instaposts would help the e-sport scene grow rather than have it be delayed.
I think that if TL adopted the insta-news policy, the spoiler cryers would eventually go away. By leaving this a delicate balance then the ones who don't want spoilers are free to complain every single time someone mentions a tiny thing about a game that already happened. They just need to learn to avoid a STARCRAFT NEWS SITE if they don't actually want any starcraft NEWS. If you want to participate in general forums or whatever, bookmark straight to that. If its that important to you to avoid spoilers, take precautions yourself. Don't expect the largest english e-sports news site to coddle you.
I don't get it. First paragraph you talk about helping the e-sports scene grow, but in the second you want a part of the community to "go away". Don't you realize that a move like this would alienate a huge group of people, making the e-sports scene shrink?
I'm not, and am never going to, complain "every single time someone mentions a tiny thing about a game that already happened", I just don't see the point of putting the results on the front page (unless there's an active opt-in to get the article to show).
On October 13 2011 04:48 Goshdarnit wrote: Yes but only at the end of said tournament, for the love of god do not spoil rounds before finals because people like me miss said games often and catch up on the season before finals. But yes, when someone wins GSL, MLG, IPL, NASL please put on the front page. It would be helping E-Sports.
With a 24 hour delay or something, okay?
Give the people who were at work/sleep/school a chance to watch the VODs.
On October 13 2011 04:51 Deadlyfish wrote: Yes. People are way too sensitive to spoilers. I mean, if you dont want to know the result of a Starcraft tournament then maybe you shouldnt go on a Starcraft website, pretty simple right?
So yea i'd really like it if the result of a tournament was on the frontpage.
It's not up to you to decide how "sensitive" others are allowed to be for spoilers. Go to rakaka if you want results. As has been stated before, Teamliquid is the #1 site for everything Starcraft related, it's not just a news feed of recent tournament results. We come here to watch streams, discuss/predict games and more.
You say "everything" but really you mean "everything except major tournament results"?
A tournament like MLG or IPL is a huge event, it shouldnt be hidden in the LR thread or whatever, it should be on the frontpage, get some exposure, some hype etc.
most people (52% ) think it takes ~1 or 2 days before you can assume someone getting spoiled is there own fault.
So, since most people probably recognize that nobody can watch all starcraft live (especially since there are major tournaments for sc2 in korea, us, and europe; bw is exclusively korea), it's just a matter of "not giving a fuck" about spoilers to people.
And frankly I find that attitude fairly disgusting. Tl.net is about multiple games, multiple communities, and people browse here all the time from work/after events finished/whatever with the full intention of watching vods soon after. TL.net is not just a news site for sc2 progaming.
I for one don't want a gigantic picture of jangbi on tl.net the moment after he wins an osl finals, nor do I want a gigantic picture of stephano or whoever after winning an sc2 tournament. At least not for 24 hours of the event.
Nor do I want people bitching about getting spoiled or about which results warrant front page media coverage (which will happen, I guarantee). And I don't want anyone's viewing experience ruined by spoilers.
How flawed was the comparison made by N.geNuity? - Extremely flawed - Very flawed
Even without making the poll I can bet that nobody is going to vote that your example wasn't flawed, just like nobody is going to vote against the spoiler policy, when the poll is NOT asking about that at all and there is NO such option.
On October 13 2011 05:00 Purish wrote: To say that spoilers are hurting e-sports seems a little extreme. We all know why spoilers are used and the reasoning behind them. It's a sign of respect to those who didn't get to watch the live broadcast and want to go watch the VODs later. But, we owe more respect to the players who participate in these tournaments.
Tournament champions should be featured on the front page here at Team Liquid. If they battled through the tournament and won, the least we can do is acknowledge their winning and bring awareness to it. Personally, I know that had I not watched IPL3 I most likely wouldn't be aware of who won and exactly how hard he worked through the bracket to earn that championship.
It's understandable people want to watch the VODs later and find out for themselves, but we as a community should be supporting the pro-gamers who win championships and be able to recognize their success without have to keep it all hush-hush.
most people (52% ) think it takes ~1 or 2 days before you can assume someone getting spoiled is there own fault.
So, since most people probably recognize that nobody can watch all starcraft live (especially since there are major tournaments for sc2 in korea, us, and europe; bw is exclusively korea), it's just a matter of "not giving a fuck" about spoilers to people.
And frankly I find that attitude fairly disgusting. Tl.net is about multiple games, multiple communities, and people browse here all the time from work/after events finished/whatever with the full intention of watching vods soon after. TL.net is not just a news site for sc2 progaming.
I for one don't want a gigantic picture of jangbi on tl.net the moment after he wins an osl finals, nor do I want a gigantic picture of stephano or whoever after winning an sc2 tournament. At least not for 24 hours of the event.
Nor do I want people bitching about getting spoiled or about which results warrant front page media coverage (which will happen, I guarantee). And I don't want anyone's viewing experience ruined by spoilers.
The big difference between these two posts is that the TSL post is asking how long should we wait, with no option saying "instant post." This post is saying, should we wait at all. Obviously more people think instaposts would help the e-sport scene grow rather than have it be delayed.
I think that if TL adopted the insta-news policy, the spoiler cryers would eventually go away. By leaving this a delicate balance then the ones who don't want spoilers are free to complain every single time someone mentions a tiny thing about a game that already happened. They just need to learn to avoid a STARCRAFT NEWS SITE if they don't actually want any starcraft NEWS. If you want to participate in general forums or whatever, bookmark straight to that. If its that important to you to avoid spoilers, take precautions yourself. Don't expect the largest english e-sports news site to coddle you.
the sentiment is the thread is almost the opposite; almost everyone is universally saying people should spoiler.
that case was a bit different though, as tsl is teamliquid content. It'd be kind of a dick move to say "hey, the only way you can follow this tournament is to go to tl, but we'll spoil it instantly!". At least in the context of esports, where people live in inconvenient time zones.
regardless, people's solutions to just have a "newspaper" post where all this stuff gets posted would easily work. front page can advertise for that; casual users of tl will easily be redirected to that thread.
Again, this discussion becomes more and more null to me. Middle ground should win here.
You CAN have headlines and subtitles that are not revealing of the results but also allude to the fact that something exciting and amazing has happened. BOOM done
Also if starcraft2 were as big as mainstream sports this discussion would be laughed at. If you really care enough about the results that you will be devastated to see the results before you watch it, fricking watch it live or get over it.
most people (52% ) think it takes ~1 or 2 days before you can assume someone getting spoiled is there own fault.
So, since most people probably recognize that nobody can watch all starcraft live (especially since there are major tournaments for sc2 in korea, us, and europe; bw is exclusively korea), it's just a matter of "not giving a fuck" about spoilers to people.
And frankly I find that attitude fairly disgusting. Tl.net is about multiple games, multiple communities, and people browse here all the time from work/after events finished/whatever with the full intention of watching vods soon after. TL.net is not just a news site for sc2 progaming.
I for one don't want a gigantic picture of jangbi on tl.net the moment after he wins an osl finals, nor do I want a gigantic picture of stephano or whoever after winning an sc2 tournament. At least not for 24 hours of the event.
Nor do I want people bitching about getting spoiled or about which results warrant front page media coverage (which will happen, I guarantee). And I don't want anyone's viewing experience ruined by spoilers.
How flawed was the comparison made by N.geNuity? - Extremely flawed - Very flawed
Even without making the poll I can bet that nobody is going to vote that your example wasn't flawed, just like nobody is going to vote against the spoiler policy, when the poll is NOT asking about that at all and there is NO such option.
again yeah, clarified my comments. the sentiment in that thread is very different than in this thread.
but the content of my post I'll defend. If you're willing to put spoilers on tl's front page immediately, then that means you view tl as enough of a news site to put the "blame" on anyone getting spoiled on the person being spoiled. I.e. if someone doesn't want to be spoiled, it's their fault if they do.
and I don't think it is the person's fault entirely if they just come to tl within 24 hours of the event happening. Not enough to warrant potentially ruining someone's watching experience anyways.
so yeah, the poll options don't say "it shouldn't have that", but almost no one in the thread says spoilers should be insta-made, p4demik says he should have waited, etc. The sentiment for preserving spoilers is there.
On October 13 2011 04:48 Goshdarnit wrote: Yes but only at the end of said tournament, for the love of god do not spoil rounds before finals because people like me miss said games often and catch up on the season before finals. But yes, when someone wins GSL, MLG, IPL, NASL please put on the front page. It would be helping E-Sports.
With a 24 hour delay or something, okay?
Give the people who were at work/sleep/school a chance to watch the VODs.
On October 13 2011 04:51 Deadlyfish wrote: Yes. People are way too sensitive to spoilers. I mean, if you dont want to know the result of a Starcraft tournament then maybe you shouldnt go on a Starcraft website, pretty simple right?
So yea i'd really like it if the result of a tournament was on the frontpage.
It's not up to you to decide how "sensitive" others are allowed to be for spoilers. Go to rakaka if you want results. As has been stated before, Teamliquid is the #1 site for everything Starcraft related, it's not just a news feed of recent tournament results. We come here to watch streams, discuss/predict games and more.
You say "everything" but really you mean "everything except major tournament results"?
A tournament like MLG or IPL is a huge event, it shouldnt be hidden in the LR thread or whatever, it should be on the frontpage, get some exposure, some hype etc.
Woops, yeah you got me there. ^^ My mistake. Yes, those are huge events, they need exposure, but does the title of the post on the front page need to contain the victor's name?
Might be a good idea to have all major esports related sites agree to wait to post spoilers on their main page 36 hours after the original event. That way it gives people time to catch up a little, but it's not so much later that it's irrelevant.
most people (52% ) think it takes ~1 or 2 days before you can assume someone getting spoiled is there own fault.
So, since most people probably recognize that nobody can watch all starcraft live (especially since there are major tournaments for sc2 in korea, us, and europe; bw is exclusively korea), it's just a matter of "not giving a fuck" about spoilers to people.
And frankly I find that attitude fairly disgusting. Tl.net is about multiple games, multiple communities, and people browse here all the time from work/after events finished/whatever with the full intention of watching vods soon after. TL.net is not just a news site for sc2 progaming.
I for one don't want a gigantic picture of jangbi on tl.net the moment after he wins an osl finals, nor do I want a gigantic picture of stephano or whoever after winning an sc2 tournament. At least not for 24 hours of the event.
Nor do I want people bitching about getting spoiled or about which results warrant front page media coverage (which will happen, I guarantee). And I don't want anyone's viewing experience ruined by spoilers.
How flawed was the comparison made by N.geNuity? - Extremely flawed - Very flawed
Even without making the poll I can bet that nobody is going to vote that your example wasn't flawed, just like nobody is going to vote against the spoiler policy, when the poll is NOT asking about that at all and there is NO such option.
again yeah, clarified my comments. the sentiment in that thread is very different than in this thread.
Because that's what is asked there. The spoiler policy is not questioned, so it's not a place to discuss that. In here the policy is questioned, so both people that do and don't approve can discuss/vote, creating an unbiased result.
I agree with you OP, there needs to be more "buzz" in the community. Not enough passion going around, this would definitely help. They could add a "spoiler-free" button for those who don't want to see the articles. I am pretty NASL already has one.
most people (52% ) think it takes ~1 or 2 days before you can assume someone getting spoiled is there own fault.
So, since most people probably recognize that nobody can watch all starcraft live (especially since there are major tournaments for sc2 in korea, us, and europe; bw is exclusively korea), it's just a matter of "not giving a fuck" about spoilers to people.
And frankly I find that attitude fairly disgusting. Tl.net is about multiple games, multiple communities, and people browse here all the time from work/after events finished/whatever with the full intention of watching vods soon after. TL.net is not just a news site for sc2 progaming.
I for one don't want a gigantic picture of jangbi on tl.net the moment after he wins an osl finals, nor do I want a gigantic picture of stephano or whoever after winning an sc2 tournament. At least not for 24 hours of the event.
Nor do I want people bitching about getting spoiled or about which results warrant front page media coverage (which will happen, I guarantee). And I don't want anyone's viewing experience ruined by spoilers.
How flawed was the comparison made by N.geNuity? - Extremely flawed - Very flawed
Even without making the poll I can bet that nobody is going to vote that your example wasn't flawed, just like nobody is going to vote against the spoiler policy, when the poll is NOT asking about that at all and there is NO such option.
again yeah, clarified my comments. the sentiment in that thread is very different than in this thread.
but the content of my post I'll defend. If you're willing to put spoilers on tl's front page immediately, then that means you view tl as enough of a news site to put the "blame" on anyone getting spoiled on the person being spoiled. I.e. if someone doesn't want to be spoiled, it's their fault if they do.
and I don't think it is the person's fault entirely if they just come to tl within 24 hours of the event happening. Not enough to warrant potentially ruining someone's watching experience anyways.
so yeah, the poll options don't say "it shouldn't have that", but almost no one in the thread says spoilers should be insta-made, p4demik says he should have waited, etc. The sentiment for preserving spoilers is there.
edit- fixed spelling of p4demik
For example you can put the forums as your TL bookmark, or a starting page with no news can be created for this purpose.
I so agree.. Victories should be celebrated. You can always go watch the game later on just like you could with a football match, beeing told the winner doesn't ruin the actual match IMO.
EPT
