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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. |
On October 13 2011 06:02 avilo wrote:
For me personally, don't really care if the results are spoiled, most of the time it's extremely difficult to tell an event even went on.
For any new visitor to TL, do you really think they can look at the front page and see "STEPHANO WINS IPL?!" Nah, they just see a bunch of random news, and for a new user to sift through all of that and need to randomly and miraculously find a spoilered text in some thread saying who won...not the best idea imo.
Most of the time people care about watching the games more than "who won" but maybe that's personal preference. As usual though, if people do not want to be spoiled they simply should not read the site because regardless of whether it's on the front page or not, it's possible to get spoiled if someone is looking for the results...
so OP has a good point imo, it'd be better if you could actually see the results of friggin tournaments that just went on. It's ludicrous to hide the fact that someone just won a $30,000 first place in a tournament...imagine the difference when a user loads up the site and sees that, they're thinking "oh shit, this game is really big" compared to just assuming it's a game that randomly has a few dollars here and there...
What about a 24 or 48 hour leeway then? If a new visitor, perhaps new to Starcraft II as a whole, visits TL he won't consider IPL3 old news on tuesday/wednesday when the finals were played sunday. That still gives a window of time for people to catch up.
On October 13 2011 06:24 guN-viCe wrote:
I never know about the big tournies... my friends ask me if I've watched the latest ones and I never know what the hell they are talking about..
I visit TL everyday too..
If they ask about a specific tourney, and you don't look it up in liquipedia, do you really care enough about the event to consider this a problem? And if you then, in a forum thread or at liquipedia, found links to the VODs, would you not prefer to watch it without knowing who won?
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All we need is a front page headline which reads "IPL3: AND THE WINNER IS....?"
Then if you want to know who the winner is, you can CLICK on the article and see STEPHANO in all his glory, with a shit eating grin (provided such a picture was snapped) and a quote "TO THE BANK" followed by infinite discussion and joy.
You keep the spoiler people happy.
You let people enjoy the hype.
I don't believe you need his pretty face on the front page. That's not taking into account the value of watching SC2 matches, something real sports rarely capture. If i miss a game of <realsport> it's dead to me. I've missed it, I don't care anymore. SC2 though is completely different. The stories are better, the results mean more than just the end of another season and one person winning. The game itself matters. You gotta keep that shit spoiler free for at least a day or two.
But you can still have your front page article, and with one minute click you can see the hype.
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I have never understood the whole "I dont want to be spoiled" thing. Personally I'm the exact oposite, I want to know who won, preferably before I watch the game. That way I can pick and choose the game I want to see and the games I want to avoid.
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Yes, if people want to not be spoiled don't go on this website. I don't think teamliquid members shuld have to add spoiler warnings; if you have GSL games go watch them without looking a teamliquid first. How hard is that?
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I think the whole spoiler thing is outdated. I mean I guess people don't want to get spoiled if their favorite player won or lost, but I think most people just want to watch good games.
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On October 13 2011 06:35 jupidar wrote:
I think the whole spoiler thing is outdated. I mean I guess people don't want to get spoiled if their favorite player won or lost, but I think most people just want to watch good games.
I agree with this. I mean, its not like we're arguing to post SASE WINS HIS GAME IN WEEK 3 OF NASL on the homepage. We're talking about major wins, GSL, IPL, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. For individual matches and for viewers who want to see good games, thats why we have "game recommended" spoilers.
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wth? NO! No spoilers PLEASE.
So often I am doing other stuff when a good tournament is on, like IPL3 finals were just past bedtime for me. Have to get up for work tomorrow, so I opt to watch it later, and stay way from related threads on TL.
Now, If only I would have just stayed completely away from TL, I wouldnt have seen the poll on how the IPL3 results might have changed my views on the skill gap between koreans and the rest... derp
Anybody who has ever been pationate sports fan knows what its like to try to stay unspoiled for a big game. Its hard, but it means everything to watch it unspoiled.
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The small group of people who care about spoilers ruin coverage for the rest of us. :/
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There's this really cool website called Gosugamers.net...
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WTF I can't believe results of the poll. I'd expect it to be the exact opposite.
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I sort of understand the mentality of those who don't want things spoiled. From a purely entertainment POV, they feel as though there is no excitement if they already know the victor.
However, to me that is not what TL is. Copying and pasting the first lines directly from TL's "About TL" page:
"TeamLiquid is a news and community website centered around Blizzard's StarCraft: Brood War and StarCraft 2. Here you'll find everything you need to know about the professional StarCraft scene, including pro-gaming news and information, videos, strategies, and replays. "
This is a news and information web site, dedicated to giving users all of the latest news surrounding the Starcraft e-sports scene. Not posting the results of the latest tournaments completely goes against TL's stated purpose. When a victor is decided, this is breaking news. TL should be the first web site to post the results in bold letters on the front page.
To me e-sports is like any other sport, i always want to know who won. If a hockey fan, or basketball fan, or whatever misses a game, will he want to find somewhere to watch the game before "spoiling" the results? Maybe, maybe not.
If they want to find out who won, they go to a source that provides news and information regarding the sport. TL is exactly that. If they don't want it spoiled, it is tough, but they will probably tune into the TV channel replaying the game at a later time and re-live the experience that way without hopefully having the results spoiled on the way; they go directly to the source. In the case of the Starcraft e-sports community, in the case of any major tournament, they have the option of going to that tournament's website and watching the VODs there.
Ultimately, it is not TL's job to "shield and protect" the viewers from results of major tournaments. As a news and information source TL's foremost goal should to provide the breaking news faster than all other sources.
Does the New York Times, or the sports section of any major newspaper try its best to shield its readers from important news? No, it prints it in a massive font size on the front page.
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Pretty sure most people are fine with a 1-2 day delay. A lot of people are talking about growing esports (its been growing regardless of the spoiler free TL frontpage guys...) and new viewers to TL who are supposed to matter more than veterans who've been here for years. It hurts my head a bit. After every event there's always some idiot who has to make 3 threads proclaiming the last champion a God, and there's a reason those threads are shot down fast. That doesn't "build hype", it encourages stupidity.
Some of you forget that TL is 99% community driven in that only 4/200+ TL staff actually get paid for what they do and the rest are volunteers. Ignoring the fact that most writers are usually attending the events live and on their way back home the very next day, you're bitching that writeups/hype/congratulation news threads should be near instant, while forgetting that TL writers have a quality standard to meet. Just how productive is it to have a news post saying "Stephano won IPL3!" with no writeup to follow? How is that even exciting and hype building?
For those who just want recent SC2 results, well I have news for you! There's actually a link on every single page of TL to direct you to recent SC2 results. Granted, it's kind of small and not plastered in your face, so maybe a button at the top would work better. Off to the right just under the Liquipedia search bar are two links, Recent SC2 Results and Premier SC2 Tournaments. Congrats, you now have a centralized place for all results.
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On October 13 2011 06:48 nDragan wrote:
Does the New York Times, or the sports section of any major newspaper try its best to shield its readers from important news? No, it prints it in a massive font size on the front page.
You bring up many good points, I agree with a lot, but I still chose to quote this part. ^_^
The New York Times' job is to report on major events, but in order to watch the games as they happen (be it a football game, american football game, hockey game or whatever) you don't actually visit the NY Times website. For Starcraft on the other hand, it's common practise to use TL for the actual links to various streams, vods, tournament websites (exception being GSL). If you can't go on TL, you can't watch the games.
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On October 13 2011 06:46 andeh wrote:
The small group of people who care about spoilers ruin coverage for the rest of us. :/ I believe it's the exact opposite. There's only a handful of players who only care about what the games teach them, there are way more people who don't play SC2 (anymore) but only watch for the entertainment value. When something gets spoiled, BOOM gone is the entertainment value.
The New York Times' job is to report on major events, but in order to watch the games as they happen (be it a football game, american football game, hockey game or whatever) you don't actually visit the NY Times website. For Starcraft on the other hand, it's common practise to use TL for the actual links to various streams, vods, tournament websites (exception being GSL). If you can't go on TL, you can't watch the games.
Exactly.
All we need is a front page headline which reads "IPL3: AND THE WINNER IS....?"
Then if you want to know who the winner is, you can CLICK on the article and see STEPHANO in all his glory, with a shit eating grin (provided such a picture was snapped) and a quote "TO THE BANK" followed by infinite discussion and joy.
You keep the spoiler people happy.
You let people enjoy the hype.
I don't believe you need his pretty face on the front page. That's not taking into account the value of watching SC2 matches, something real sports rarely capture. If i miss a game of <realsport> it's dead to me. I've missed it, I don't care anymore. SC2 though is completely different. The stories are better, the results mean more than just the end of another season and one person winning. The game itself matters. You gotta keep that shit spoiler free for at least a day or two.
But you can still have your front page article, and with one minute click you can see the hype. This has to be the best suggestion I've read so far.
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On October 13 2011 06:48 nDragan wrote:
I sort of understand the mentality of those who don't want things spoiled. From a purely entertainment POV, they feel as though there is no excitement if they already know the victor.
However, to me that is not what TL is. Copying and pasting the first lines directly from TL's "About TL" page:
"TeamLiquid is a news and community website centered around Blizzard's StarCraft: Brood War and StarCraft 2. Here you'll find everything you need to know about the professional StarCraft scene, including pro-gaming news and information, videos, strategies, and replays. "
This is a news and information web site, dedicated to giving users all of the latest news surrounding the Starcraft e-sports scene. Not posting the results of the latest tournaments completely goes against TL's stated purpose. When a victor is decided, this is breaking news. TL should be the first web site to post the results in bold letters on the front page.
To me e-sports is like any other sport, i always want to know who won. If a hockey fan, or basketball fan, or whatever misses a game, will he want to find somewhere to watch the game before "spoiling" the results? Maybe, maybe not.
If they want to find out who won, they go to a source that provides news and information regarding the sport. TL is exactly that. If they don't want it spoiled, it is tough, but they will probably tune into the TV channel replaying the game at a later time and re-live the experience that way without hopefully having the results spoiled on the way; they go directly to the source. In the case of the Starcraft e-sports community, in the case of any major tournament, they have the option of going to that tournament's website and watching the VODs there.
Ultimately, it is not TL's job to "shield and protect" the viewers from results of major tournaments. As a news and information source TL's foremost goal should to provide the breaking news faster than all other sources.
Does the New York Times, or the sports section of any major newspaper try its best to shield its readers from important news? No, it prints it in a massive font size on the front page.
It really only takes about two clicks to get to a results page. Should we really ruin countless games for people because a large number of people are too lazy to make 2 easy clicks? It's not like a well-written analysis of a game will be posted on the day of the match if the ideas in this thread are implemented. It will only help out some reallllllllyy lazy people. I dunno, that's just how I see it.
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On October 13 2011 06:51 xBillehx wrote:For those who just want recent SC2 results, well I have news for you! There's actually a link on every single page of TL to direct you to recent SC2 results. Granted, it's kind of small and not plastered in your face, so maybe a button at the top would work better. Off to the right just under the Liquipedia search bar are two links, Recent SC2 Results and Premier SC2 Tournaments. Congrats, you now have a centralized place for all results.
There you go, problem solved. Just highlight the link on the front page.
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Spoiler free is GOOD.. this is not regular sports.. here rebroadcasts are VERY important, tournamnets played at various time-zones.. so people just cant watch everything..
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On October 13 2011 06:59 Carras wrote:
Spoiler free is GOOD.. this is not regular sports.. here rebroadcasts are VERY important, tournamnets played at various time-zones.. so people just cant watch everything..
Basically, if you put pictures of the winners I just won't visit the site anymore and/or watch VoDs.
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On October 13 2011 06:25 Shichibukai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 06:02 avilo wrote:
For me personally, don't really care if the results are spoiled, most of the time it's extremely difficult to tell an event even went on.
For any new visitor to TL, do you really think they can look at the front page and see "STEPHANO WINS IPL?!" Nah, they just see a bunch of random news, and for a new user to sift through all of that and need to randomly and miraculously find a spoilered text in some thread saying who won...not the best idea imo.
Most of the time people care about watching the games more than "who won" but maybe that's personal preference. As usual though, if people do not want to be spoiled they simply should not read the site because regardless of whether it's on the front page or not, it's possible to get spoiled if someone is looking for the results...
so OP has a good point imo, it'd be better if you could actually see the results of friggin tournaments that just went on. It's ludicrous to hide the fact that someone just won a $30,000 first place in a tournament...imagine the difference when a user loads up the site and sees that, they're thinking "oh shit, this game is really big" compared to just assuming it's a game that randomly has a few dollars here and there... What about a 24 or 48 hour leeway then? If a new visitor, perhaps new to Starcraft II as a whole, visits TL he won't consider IPL3 old news on tuesday/wednesday when the finals were played sunday. That still gives a window of time for people to catch up. Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 06:24 guN-viCe wrote:
I never know about the big tournies... my friends ask me if I've watched the latest ones and I never know what the hell they are talking about..
I visit TL everyday too.. If they ask about a specific tourney, and you don't look it up in liquipedia, do you really care enough about the event to consider this a problem? And if you then, in a forum thread or at liquipedia, found links to the VODs, would you not prefer to watch it without knowing who won?
Well of course I don't care about a specific tourney if I don't even know it's happening. I find the main page of TL to be really cluttered, and I don't want to be bothered wading through multiple threads.
I do care about progaming, however.
Spoilers never really bother me, often times I enjoy them. It's no longer, "what's the end result", it's "how does X unfold".
IMO
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On October 13 2011 06:04 Clank wrote:
teamliquid.net should be like ESPN.com or any other main site, with spoilers and news on the front page, but i also think something like teamliquid.net/spoilerfree or something like that could be created, which would just give easy access to the forums and such without having to visit the mainpage
Teamliquid.net/spoilerfree = Teamliquid.net
I think you're looking for something like Teamliquid.net/headlines
That would be much better because then things would not have to compete to be on the front page. Since when there are multiple tournaments going on how would they decide who gets on the front page if they were to just remove spoilers?
I for one think that it's fine as it is and requires no change. This isn't an exclusive SC2 forum, if you want to see tournament results then go to the "SC2 Tourneys" section.
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EPT
