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On April 10 2012 00:07 zJayy962 wrote:
Stop asking the crowd to make some noise holy bajesus! It feels extremely forced and just isn't fun after the first few times.
Edit: thought I'd bold the important part... SO IMPORTANT.
Day[9] does this all the time as well. He doesn't get flames for it. I don't see why HD should be specifically blamed for this.
I'm suspecting, that it is probably a request from the organizers (in this case IGN), much like mentioning the sponsors etc.
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all I can say is thanks god we had a legend has OB because otherwise, it wouldn't be too nioce to watch.
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It must be pretty hard to read all this, but really a lot of people are quite passionate about the games and are willing to invest a lot of time to explain why some caster hasn't managed to meet their expectations.
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Definitely the lack of knowledge and flat out wrong knowledge that these two keep putting out is frustrating to listen to. I didn't want to mute the stream because the audio and video make for a full experience but everytime I heard some incorrect game knowledge or guesswork being shot out I cringed and came one step closer to just closing the stream entirely. HD's calls were especially cringeworthy because of how uninformed a lot of them were - my suggestion would be to watch pros play and learn timings as if you were training to be a progamer because as it stands it sounds very very amateur.
Since both casters don't have an exceptional level of insight to offer in addition to being wrong a lot of the time, the viewers grow to accept them as unreliable and don't trust any of their calls anymore ( at least that's what i went through) and this is definitely not what a caster wants the listener to feel.
Please update your knowledge of the meta and do your research on the players you are casting so you actually exceed the knowledge of the average viewer and subsequently provide something other than random guesswork or stating the obvious.
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On April 10 2012 00:21 Jinsho wrote:
It must be pretty hard to read all this, but really a lot of people are quite passionate about the games and are willing to invest a lot of time to explain why some caster hasn't managed to meet their expectations.
It's also painful to read this whole thread because you can go back to page 1 and see the exact same complaints have been going on for months. Comparing HD's evolution as a caster to Husky's is an amazing thing. Husky took criticism seriously and worked on his flaws and is now pretty respected in the community.
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On April 10 2012 00:20 BenBuford wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:07 zJayy962 wrote:
Stop asking the crowd to make some noise holy bajesus! It feels extremely forced and just isn't fun after the first few times.
Edit: thought I'd bold the important part... SO IMPORTANT. Day[9] does this all the time as well. He doesn't get flames for it. I don't see why HD should be specifically blamed for this. I'm suspecting, that it is probably a request from the organizers (in this case IGN), much like mentioning the sponsors etc.
There's a difference in execution to put it that way though. Look how catspajamas hyped up the crowd by actually hyping instead of having to ask the crowd and get less of a response. If you can't pull it off charismatically, don't try at all.
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On April 10 2012 00:24 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:21 Jinsho wrote:
It must be pretty hard to read all this, but really a lot of people are quite passionate about the games and are willing to invest a lot of time to explain why some caster hasn't managed to meet their expectations. It's also painful to read this whole thread because you can go back to page 1 and see the exact same complaints have been going on for months. Comparing HD's evolution as a caster to Husky's is an amazing thing. Husky took criticism seriously and worked on his flaws and is now pretty respected in the community.
Yeah Husky has been great.
I'm kinda thinking HD and Painuser have to do other shit at IGN than just cast.
They looked really out of practice.
HD in particular should only feel bad about all the hate if he has been putting all his efforts into casting, which is pretty clear that he hasn't.
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I'm not too picky about commentators to be honest but I enjoyed your cast. Please be a little more careful about what you say on the loudspeakers in the event of a pause though. 
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I really don't want to bash specific casters, because apparently they were trying hard and casted as well as they possibly could. But there are two things I really dont like in general:
1. Mindless overhyping of little things. It's an old discussion, but I think that it has to be said once more: I've witnessed about ten thousand beautiful forcefields / fungals / storms / whatever, and only half of them were really decent. Stop hyping everything as if it was the most amazing shit ever. In the end, the really amazing plays won't stand out.
2. Premature calls. I remember the Nestea vs. aLive match on that strange IPL map, where the casters were basically judging almost every aspect of the game wrong. If you're not able to analyze a game correctly in most situations, just don't do it. That's what I really like about Day9's casting, because he is able to use his knowledge to actually say the right things in the right moment. If a caster is unsure about a situation, he just shouldn't pretend knowing everything.
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I feel kinda bad about criticizing HD since he was the guy who brought me in to watching professional Starcraft in the first place.
However, I think it's quite sad to compare HD's progress to Husky's. A year and a half ago I would definitively prefer HD to Husky, but I feel like HD hasn't progressed at all. Where Husky took peoples' criticism to heart and improved a lot, HD is basically the same caster as he was a year and a half ago. It might be because I know a lot more about the game now than I did back then, but I often find myself very annoyed at HD's ignorance. Truth is he really doesn't know much about the game.
If he just stuck to play-by-play I wouldn't be bothered too much, but HD often tries to analyse things and is often just plain wrong. So HD; if you really want to improve I think the easiest way for you would be to stop analyzing the game. Instead just focus on play-by-play. You have one of the best casting voices imo, and I think it is sad to see your voice "wasted" like this.
On Painuser: When he started casting full-time he was one of my absolute favorite casters. His recent background as a pro-gamer was shown quite clearly in his casting, as his knowledge was very good. I guess since he doesn't play as much anymore, his knowledge of the metagame has fallen quite a lot. At least he seems to be making a lot more wrong calls than he did when he started casting full-time. If he could spend some more time watching GSL/other korean tournaments, I think he could become one of the best analytic casters once again. As of right now there are many casters who know more about the game than PU.
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In general, I really like Painuser.
But if there's one thing he can improve on is calling fights as they're occurring on screen. There were just so many times when a large fight would happen and he'd prematurely call it for one player and it would just skew more and more against that player as the fight would go on. The build orders and information gathered from scouts and things like that are all fine. It's just "prematurely calling fights incorrectly" specifically that could use a lot of work.
I don't know what to say about HD that hasn't already been said without just piling on.
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i actually like your casting HD, but you do miss quite a lot but you painuser have quite a harsh voice but provide good comments. There was good humor and i liked most of it overall, but keep practicing.
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Aside from all the other complaints, HD should stop faking the BW "old school"ism. Still calling Nestea "ZergBong", seriously? (While loudly reminding us that he still remembers him from his "old BW days"). Also, scan still being called "comsats"?
It has been more than one year now that HD intensively plays and commentates (or so he should...) Starcraft 2, no way he's seen more games from the mediocre 2v2 B-teamer ZergBong than games from the 3 times GSL champion God of Zerg Nestea... That's like still calling MarineKing "Boxer"...
Nobody's buying that shit, so he should just stop reminding us he was an old school BW follower or something. I'm aware that it's true to some extent (he did commentate some BW games afaik, and was following the BW scene), but no way ZergBong is more memorable than Nestea...
Edit: PainUser on the other hand is a good caster. He miscalls some builds sometimes (he didn't seem to know of MKP's 1-1-1 push with marines, hellions, medivac, calling a switch to a reactored factory even though it's a typical MKP push...), but in general, he's got a good flow, and decent analysis of the game. Keep it up.
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A couple comments:
1. Too many requests for cheers from the crowd. Having been there live, the really annoying thing is that they essentially ask the crowd to cheer twice for each player. They do a pre-game hype for each player and then in game, they try to do a GSL-like intro of each player. I think it would be better to have fewer, bigger cheers.
2. HD, you need to look more at the camera. Your eyes get really shifty and you look insincere but I think you're just not sure what to look at. When you thank the audience, you need to either make slower eye contact with a few people in the crowd or just look into the camera lens.
3. The content of the casting was really good. I had a couple friends with me who knew very little about StarCraft and they were very complimentary about your professionalism and making things easy to understand.
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really enjoyed ur casting ! was fun times
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alot better then the other casters at IPL4 ..
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Half of the event they were like two sleeping flies, second part of the event they were awful tryharders.
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I felt like PainUser was trying to do something odd with his voice the entire time, it was just awkward to listen to, and y'all never seemed to point out the more important things.
I actually had to mute the game to continue watching the stream.
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On April 10 2012 00:26 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:20 BenBuford wrote:On April 10 2012 00:07 zJayy962 wrote:
Stop asking the crowd to make some noise holy bajesus! It feels extremely forced and just isn't fun after the first few times.
Edit: thought I'd bold the important part... SO IMPORTANT. Day[9] does this all the time as well. He doesn't get flames for it. I don't see why HD should be specifically blamed for this. I'm suspecting, that it is probably a request from the organizers (in this case IGN), much like mentioning the sponsors etc. There's a difference in execution to put it that way though. Look how catspajamas hyped up the crowd by actually hyping instead of having to ask the crowd and get less of a response. If you can't pull it off charismatically, don't try at all.
Yeah Day[9] knows how to work a crowd and when to do so. HD was just trying way too hard. If you don't know how to work a crowd properly at an event please don't try because it just gets kind of annoying after a certain point.
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EPT
