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the NASL is just very painful to listen to right now
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On April 14 2012 03:27 Gorkon wrote:
Personally, I enjoy listening to HD and PainUser. They may not be the best analytical casters, but they obviously have a strong passion for the game, which is what I look for most when watching casts. "Good" or "Bad" casting is still completely subjective, and many people do enjoy casters who are just passionate about the game. There will always be room for improvement, but I strongly disagree with the notion that they deserve any kind of flaming or hate with all of the hard work they put into their improvement and the general SC2 community. Just my opinion on the matter.
Good and bad casting is not subjective.
When a caster makes a call that is completely, incontrovertibly incorrect, that is bad casting.
That being said, passion for the game is important for a caster and they can always improve, so I agree with you there.
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i think HD and PU are good people but bad casters. I just can't listen to games when they are the casters. I will either mute, find a new stream or just turn it off. It's nothing I can point my finger on exactly, we just don't mesh. Again, nothing personally they seem like nice people, I just don't want to hear them cast starcraft matches. ;/
For some things to work on to make your casts bearable:
-cut the phony ethusiasm (PU and HD) or if it's genuine work on a different style to convey it.
-get some chemistry. I'm not sure if anyone else feels this way but there are times when i feel you guys don't even like each other that much.
-stop talking over each other and arguing about nitpicky things during the cast. The 'friendly' back and forth banter between you guys doesn't work like it does for bitterdam or tastosis, it feels very awkward from the spec view.
gl hf
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On April 14 2012 06:36 crms wrote:
i think HD and PU are good people but bad casters. I just can't listen to games when they are the casters. I will either mute, find a new stream or just turn it off. It's nothing I can point my finger on exactly, we just don't mesh. Again, nothing personally they seem like nice people, I just don't want to hear them cast starcraft matches. ;/
Been trying to figure out how to write what I think of them, but I can't say it any better than this.
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I couldn't pass this thread without posting.. HD and Painuser might be my favorite casting duo in IPL.
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On April 14 2012 03:59 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 00:27 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 15:13 GertHeart wrote:On April 13 2012 14:42 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 14:34 GertHeart wrote:On April 13 2012 14:16 McFeser wrote:On April 13 2012 13:55 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 13:53 CerpinTaxt wrote:On April 13 2012 13:50 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 13:42 GertHeart wrote:
[quote]
I don't get this... and these kinds of comments. Do people who post like this realize that he is High Masters or is still Grandmasters league? Same for Painuser. When I see a comment like this I feel to myself, can you yourself post to us and show to us that you are more highly skilled than he is, so that we know you have this experience and skill that he does not, instead of complaining blindly. Are you serious? It has absolutely nothing to do with how skilled I am. If you hear a good, intelligent caster who himself is a pro player and truly knows how to describe and narrate the action on the screen in a Starcraft 2 game you will never want to listen to HDStarcraft again. Once you read a good, intelligent post, by someone who truely knows what they are talking about, you will never want to read a tsuxiit post again! That's witty. Care to address my argument instead? His points are valid (tsuxiit), even though he takes the argument to the extreme. While I don't think we "should laugh them off stage" I do think it's silly that a tournament hires casters that miss the mark, lack obvious chemistry, and are not likeable. And don't say their not, because it's been a point often repeated that HD and Painuser need to improve on their casting ability. Now did they go on five minute rant about Swastika's in the middle of map during IPL4? No, they improved after their month long break. They were however incredible unproffessional during the Nestea V Squirtle game where they mentioned during the break, while the players were moving about the stage, what each player was going to do. They mentioned that Nestea was going for mutalisks. I think they mentioned his third. Things that a Korean would pick up on despite the language barrier. It's that kind of neglect and carelessness that I think makes them bad casters. I mean this as respectfully as I can, but I don't think they work that hard at improving their casting. I also think that bad casters should not be rehired when there are dozens of willing replacements. That is just my two cents, and I really hope HD improveslike Husky and TB did. And for HD being in Masters/Grandmasters - that doesn't matter. If you know how to do a few builds just right, or just have good strong mechanics, than you can get pretty high on the ladder (especially the NA ladder). HD has competed in a few of the MLGs and he hasn't won a single game. Painuser seems to be just as bad. So I take it you know a few builds and are in high masters or grand masters yourself? Can we have proof of this? It really feels like it's not just criticism at some points. People really like to say things but never will back it up. If you are making that bold statement can you POST your own ranking? I expect you to be higher than Painuser and HD myself. Do you understand the point of what you just read? The part about how criticism, if it makes sense, is valid regardless of ladder ranking? Or are you being intentionally retarded? I must be retarded. Because if it doesn't matter, you shouldn't have had a hard time stating your ranking. Just because you're so curious, I'm high masters and have been since season 2. Last season I laddered on an account named 'jerm' that was in a division with someone named ESCOPETA. I finished the season rank 6 with 1.1k points and 150 bonus pool. I've beaten frequently players like goswser and shitty GMs and played decent games with players like IdrA, Nony, et. al. Again, it doesn't matter. Sorry but I was unable to find that name on the ranking boards, nothing above diamond. Only A JermainCole who was masters.
Did you even look?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2920015/1/jerm/
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On April 14 2012 13:48 tsuxiit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:59 GertHeart wrote:On April 14 2012 00:27 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 15:13 GertHeart wrote:On April 13 2012 14:42 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 14:34 GertHeart wrote:On April 13 2012 14:16 McFeser wrote:On April 13 2012 13:55 tsuxiit wrote:On April 13 2012 13:53 CerpinTaxt wrote:On April 13 2012 13:50 tsuxiit wrote:
[quote]
Are you serious? It has absolutely nothing to do with how skilled I am. If you hear a good, intelligent caster who himself is a pro player and truly knows how to describe and narrate the action on the screen in a Starcraft 2 game you will never want to listen to HDStarcraft again.
Once you read a good, intelligent post, by someone who truely knows what they are talking about, you will never want to read a tsuxiit post again! That's witty. Care to address my argument instead? His points are valid (tsuxiit), even though he takes the argument to the extreme. While I don't think we "should laugh them off stage" I do think it's silly that a tournament hires casters that miss the mark, lack obvious chemistry, and are not likeable. And don't say their not, because it's been a point often repeated that HD and Painuser need to improve on their casting ability. Now did they go on five minute rant about Swastika's in the middle of map during IPL4? No, they improved after their month long break. They were however incredible unproffessional during the Nestea V Squirtle game where they mentioned during the break, while the players were moving about the stage, what each player was going to do. They mentioned that Nestea was going for mutalisks. I think they mentioned his third. Things that a Korean would pick up on despite the language barrier. It's that kind of neglect and carelessness that I think makes them bad casters. I mean this as respectfully as I can, but I don't think they work that hard at improving their casting. I also think that bad casters should not be rehired when there are dozens of willing replacements. That is just my two cents, and I really hope HD improveslike Husky and TB did. And for HD being in Masters/Grandmasters - that doesn't matter. If you know how to do a few builds just right, or just have good strong mechanics, than you can get pretty high on the ladder (especially the NA ladder). HD has competed in a few of the MLGs and he hasn't won a single game. Painuser seems to be just as bad. So I take it you know a few builds and are in high masters or grand masters yourself? Can we have proof of this? It really feels like it's not just criticism at some points. People really like to say things but never will back it up. If you are making that bold statement can you POST your own ranking? I expect you to be higher than Painuser and HD myself. Do you understand the point of what you just read? The part about how criticism, if it makes sense, is valid regardless of ladder ranking? Or are you being intentionally retarded? I must be retarded. Because if it doesn't matter, you shouldn't have had a hard time stating your ranking. Just because you're so curious, I'm high masters and have been since season 2. Last season I laddered on an account named 'jerm' that was in a division with someone named ESCOPETA. I finished the season rank 6 with 1.1k points and 150 bonus pool. I've beaten frequently players like goswser and shitty GMs and played decent games with players like IdrA, Nony, et. al. Again, it doesn't matter. Sorry but I was unable to find that name on the ranking boards, nothing above diamond. Only A JermainCole who was masters. Did you even look? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2920015/1/jerm/
Regardless of what rank he is on ladder, its not his playing ability that counts, its his ability to understand the game as he waches it, something he has proven time and time again that he can't do reliably. This is fine, there are many casters who are not fully in tune with the current meta game or who can't fully read a situation, but those casters have learnt what they can do, and what they can't do. The point isn't that HD is bad, its that he either thinks he is better then he actually is or he is knowingly making facts up when he says things which are straight up wrong. I'm only diamond and i've seen quite a few of his casts through various tournaments, and in almost all of them he has said at least one major point which is straight up wrong, this isn't really excusable for a "professional" caster.
Actively saying something which is wrong is probably the worst thing a caster can do, it alienates the high skill audience and misleads the low-skill audience. He needs to recognise his place as a play by play caster and stop trying to call things. If he really wants to be able to make statements like "that was bad" or "this is unusual" then he should practice all his matchups and learn the game to a point where he can make those calls.
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I was wondering, whenever I decide to watch IPL, it is always Doa and Cats. Where is painuser and HD? I haven't seen them around in forever it seems. They are still working at IPL right?
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On August 02 2012 19:35 JacobShock wrote:
I was wondering, whenever I decide to watch IPL, it is always Doa and Cats. Where is painuser and HD? I haven't seen them around in forever it seems. They are still working at IPL right?
No, they are independent now if I remember correctly.
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On August 02 2012 19:41 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 19:35 JacobShock wrote:
I was wondering, whenever I decide to watch IPL, it is always Doa and Cats. Where is painuser and HD? I haven't seen them around in forever it seems. They are still working at IPL right? No, they are independent now if I remember correctly.
thank you, I thought it strange that they were suddenly gone.
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On April 14 2012 06:13 BreakfastBurrito wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:27 Gorkon wrote:
Personally, I enjoy listening to HD and PainUser. They may not be the best analytical casters, but they obviously have a strong passion for the game, which is what I look for most when watching casts. "Good" or "Bad" casting is still completely subjective, and many people do enjoy casters who are just passionate about the game. There will always be room for improvement, but I strongly disagree with the notion that they deserve any kind of flaming or hate with all of the hard work they put into their improvement and the general SC2 community. Just my opinion on the matter. Good and bad casting is not subjective. When a caster makes a call that is completely, incontrovertibly incorrect, that is bad casting. That being said, passion for the game is important for a caster and they can always improve, so I agree with you there.
I'm sorry for adding to the recently necroed thread (but thanks for the info that both casters are not part of the IPL anymore), I just wanted to point out something.
Analysis being wrong in a caster is objectively bad, i gotta agree. But analyzing isn't all there is to casting. Otherwise everything could be done by a machine, or by tools implemented by blizzard in the replay interface to be honest.
There are human beings too and their behavior, the way they talk and approach the game, as well as the audience are as important as analysis. And in these points there are a lot of subjective factors that only come to taste. It is still (to me at least, and i tend to believe i'm not the only one) entertainment, and this entertainment is enhanced by the way these people will commentate the game.
I won't derail the thread further, but i've always a hard time understanding why some people break down casting to nothing more than analysis. If it was the case, i wouldn't watch games and touraments, i'd check SC2Gears.
On a personal note, i wasn't really a fan of the casting duo: They were really nice funny people, but i personally didn't enjoy their cast much. Both because they were making questionable points in their game vision, and because i think they failed in communicating the game to me in an enjoying and entertaining manner.
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what does HD say wrong? beats me i'm in platinum i love his casting. and arent most of people on TL not in masters league? which would make HD vastly superior to all of them? exaaaaaaaaactly. and even the ones IN master, their understanding of the game would be equal to HD. so its funny when they say he doesn't know what he's talking about, because that would imply they don't know what they're talking about. the only ppl who can criticize him are GMs, but there are only 200 GMs in NA. and i always see more than 200 ppl complaining about play by play casters.
edit: and yes i necroed this thread because i haven't heard from painuser/hd in a while, and they are my favorite duo, and i just started listening to inside the game, and was reminded of their awesomeness, and did a search to see if they've been up to anything.
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EPT
