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On October 14 2011 15:11 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:15 Kyrth wrote:On October 14 2011 08:07 da_head wrote:
why does everyone think zerg needs a "seige" unit? look at the lurker in bw. it had range 6 (compare to tanks range 12). what it needs is effective terrain control that the lurker (and dark swarm) provided. So true. Old zerg didn't have ground-based siege range but it had effective tools to mitigate the range of other races. It worked, and it was unique. I don't think Zerg needs a seige unit, I think Zerg needs a unit that can control space. Lurkers control space, if there is a lurker at the top of the ramp, it doesn't really matter how many marines the terran player had, they weren't going up the ramp. Fast forward to the same scenario in SC2, yeah the banelings "fill the same role" Lurkers did in BW, however they don't do it anywhere near as well in that they have zero range, zero sustainability, and Terran/Toss have much more readily available detection. Imagine if a terran player had to tech to Ravens to not lose all their bio to bane bombs if they wanted to apply pressure on an important area of the map, then imagine that Banelings stayed alive when attacking. I don't want a seige unit (imo, BLs are one of the better ones in the game anyway), I want a unit that I can make so I don't have to back off anytime a terran/toss player decides to move their army to an important location.
Its all the same to me controlling space in SC2 turned into having ranged splash units so everyone just says siege unit.
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On October 14 2011 12:52 Ballistixz wrote:
ok ppl really need to stop with the lurker crap. lurkers were great in SCBW. but u know what else were extremly good in BW? ultra ling and hydras. lurkers wont work in SC2. why? because immortals would hard counter them to oblivion and colos can just A move with a observer and kill them that way.
ppl are asking for a "siege unit" for zerg because that type of unit works best and controls space at the same time. a unit does not have to be burrowed to control space. as long as it has a range of 10 or higher and does a big chunk of splash damage it will be a very good positional control unit.
so pls ppl, stop with the lurker crap. im a zerg to but id much rather defilers then lurkers in SC2 right now if i had to pick a BW unit. hell id replace corruptors with devourers in a heartbeat, but this isnt BW this is SC2.
i really dont understand why ppl cant understand the benefits a siege unit for zerg has.
Wow. I didn't think it of this way. Lurkers would get owned so hard in SC2, scan + marauders late game & ghost with 10 range snipe. For toss, VRs and Colossi effectively make lurkers obsolete.
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looks roachy to me, could be a hydra morph though. I like the idea of a roach morph. It makes them more relevant lategame which is where they really need the help.
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Kind of reminds me of a hydra and ant hybrid. I wouldn't be surprised if it have some form of acid attack.
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On October 14 2011 07:36 ballasdontcry wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 07:34 klondikespy wrote:
Here's what I'm hoping for
It's called a "Tick"
Its 1.5, like the roach and comes with the roach warren. Basically its a mobile, ranged AA unit that can be used early on. When you get the lair and then burrow, it burrows its head into the ground (see? tick) and then it acts as a long range siege unit. No splash of course, but it can sit behind roaches and other units and hit enemies. It wont do phenomenal siege damage, but enough. I dont think it'll have any damage bonuses to any kind of armor, its mostly just a support unit. This way in transit the zerg wont just lose air control and in a siege situation they have a little bit of backup. It would be neither as good as a designated AA or a designated siege. And if this "Tick" is an AA unit, then what reason does anyone have to make hydras anymore? They're just for window dressing? What makes the most sense would be to put hydras T1 (nerf dps, but increase speed) because it's just way underutilized where it is right now in the tech tree, not to mention the unit sucks. Move roaches to T2 and make roach the pre-evolution to whatever this thing is. But of course Blizzard doesn't always do the most logical thing.
yeah, and make the roach even more overlap with the ultralisk...
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On October 14 2011 15:14 thane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 15:11 iCanada wrote:On October 14 2011 08:15 Kyrth wrote:On October 14 2011 08:07 da_head wrote:
why does everyone think zerg needs a "seige" unit? look at the lurker in bw. it had range 6 (compare to tanks range 12). what it needs is effective terrain control that the lurker (and dark swarm) provided. So true. Old zerg didn't have ground-based siege range but it had effective tools to mitigate the range of other races. It worked, and it was unique. I don't think Zerg needs a seige unit, I think Zerg needs a unit that can control space. Lurkers control space, if there is a lurker at the top of the ramp, it doesn't really matter how many marines the terran player had, they weren't going up the ramp. Fast forward to the same scenario in SC2, yeah the banelings "fill the same role" Lurkers did in BW, however they don't do it anywhere near as well in that they have zero range, zero sustainability, and Terran/Toss have much more readily available detection. Imagine if a terran player had to tech to Ravens to not lose all their bio to bane bombs if they wanted to apply pressure on an important area of the map, then imagine that Banelings stayed alive when attacking. I don't want a seige unit (imo, BLs are one of the better ones in the game anyway), I want a unit that I can make so I don't have to back off anytime a terran/toss player decides to move their army to an important location. Its all the same to me controlling space in SC2 turned into having ranged splash units so everyone just says siege unit.
To be honest, I'd rather they found a new well designed mechanic than the traditional siege mode seige unit and ezmode seige unit (hello colossus <_<), but a space controlling unit in the very least.
Something like a channeled abililty that makes people want to run or suffer the consequences, maybe a darkswarm, WoW style fear (ideally not, kills micro), or some sort of enemy unit moving ability or something.
*shrug*
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Hmm.. How about this take on the silhouette? Perhaps we are seeing it wrong, and his torso is what we thought was his arm?
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/ZeroCartin/NewZerg.jpg)
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On October 14 2011 11:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:29 Skwid1g wrote:On October 14 2011 08:07 da_head wrote:
why does everyone think zerg needs a "seige" unit? look at the lurker in bw. it had range 6 (compare to tanks range 12). what it needs is effective terrain control that the lurker (and dark swarm) provided. Lurkers were "seige" units in the sense that they took a seige position (unmovable) and controlled terrain like seige units usually do. No, they are not siege units. From wiki, a siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by attrition or assault. The term derives from sedere, Latin for "to sit".[1] Lurkers are living mines with range 6. As Blizzard have said, banelings fill that role now. What Zerg needs is a unit better than hydras for late game sieges, currently there are no ways for Zerg to break a contain aka siege than by going mass roach. If the T has >8 siege tanks + Thors & marines, he can pretty much gg.
mines explode. Lurkers shoot spines. Very different. Lurkers sit there and fire while defending a place. Pretty siege like to me.
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On October 14 2011 15:29 ZeroCartin wrote:Hmm.. How about this take on the silhouette? Perhaps we are seeing it wrong, and his torso is what we thought was his arm?
That would be pretty wierd :/ Wouldn't really move very well
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On October 14 2011 15:34 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 15:29 ZeroCartin wrote:Hmm.. How about this take on the silhouette? Perhaps we are seeing it wrong, and his torso is what we thought was his arm? That would be pretty wierd :/ Wouldn't really move very well
I don't think it would be able to move at all..
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Russian Federation164 Posts
On October 14 2011 15:29 ZeroCartin wrote:Hmm.. How about this take on the silhouette? Perhaps we are seeing it wrong, and his torso is what we thought was his arm? + Show Spoiler +
Wow, very nice! That's exactly the way I imagine it, and that's why I dislike the 'morphed Roach' theory. Looks very-very Hydraish.
Oh, wait a minute!
![[image loading]](http://wiki.sc2tv.ru/images/4/41/Defiler.png)
Just some sort of armor instead of 'Consume' ability.
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On October 14 2011 11:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:29 Skwid1g wrote:On October 14 2011 08:07 da_head wrote:
why does everyone think zerg needs a "seige" unit? look at the lurker in bw. it had range 6 (compare to tanks range 12). what it needs is effective terrain control that the lurker (and dark swarm) provided. Lurkers were "seige" units in the sense that they took a seige position (unmovable) and controlled terrain like seige units usually do. No, they are not siege units. From wiki, a siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by attrition or assault. The term derives from sedere, Latin for "to sit".[1] Lurkers are living mines with range 6. As Blizzard have said, banelings fill that role now. What Zerg needs is a unit better than hydras for late game sieges, currently there are no ways for Zerg to break a contain aka siege than by going mass roach. If the T has >8 siege tanks + Thors & marines, he can pretty much gg.
becauseee broodlords, ultras paired with infestors when your free to take the map against a turtler are just not as good as hydras these days..
I personally miss the hydra I dont know how but it would be nice if its viability was improved for all matchups. Just wishful thinking.
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I am guessing it is some sort of seige/zoning type of unit. People were demanding something like a lurker and that is the main function of them before. I am excited though, a new set of things to play with and learn about.
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I think that the picture on this page is a joke. It has to be. Not only does it clearly have eyes and zerg-mouth-things (and what looks like a hydra head), but . . . it doesnt make sense. Not to me at least. O_o Just dont see what it's going for at all.
EDIT: OHhhhhh. I see it now. In fact, now I can't UNSEE it.
But it has no legs!
EDIT2: O__O becuase it slithers like a hydra! THE FUCK THIS THING IS A HYDRA EVOLUTION. You can see it's tail under its cannon (the spiky shit).
Holy fuck you're a genius.
On October 14 2011 12:52 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 11:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On October 14 2011 08:29 Skwid1g wrote:On October 14 2011 08:07 da_head wrote:
why does everyone think zerg needs a "seige" unit? look at the lurker in bw. it had range 6 (compare to tanks range 12). what it needs is effective terrain control that the lurker (and dark swarm) provided. Lurkers were "seige" units in the sense that they took a seige position (unmovable) and controlled terrain like seige units usually do. No, they are not siege units. From wiki, a siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by attrition or assault. The term derives from sedere, Latin for "to sit".[1] Lurkers are living mines with range 6. As Blizzard have said, banelings fill that role now. What Zerg needs is a unit better than hydras for late game sieges, currently there are no ways for Zerg to break a contain aka siege than by going mass roach. If the T has >8 siege tanks + Thors & marines, he can pretty much gg. ok ppl really need to stop with the lurker crap. lurkers were great in SCBW. but u know what else were extremly good in BW? ultra ling and hydras. lurkers wont work in SC2. why? because immortals would hard counter them to oblivion and colos can just A move with a observer and kill them that way. ppl are asking for a "siege unit" for zerg because that type of unit works best and controls space at the same time. a unit does not have to be burrowed to control space. as long as it has a range of 10 or higher and does a big chunk of splash damage it will be a very good positional control unit. so pls ppl, stop with the lurker crap. im a zerg to but id much rather defilers then lurkers in SC2 right now if i had to pick a BW unit. hell id replace corruptors with devourers in a heartbeat, but this isnt BW this is SC2. i really dont understand why ppl cant understand the benefits a siege unit for zerg has.
As much as I agree... why would you replace devourers with curruptors? Curruptors have contaminate, so when all the collossi die they're at least sort of useful afterwards. Devourers are big and bulky and even though their effect was pretty useful in theory, shit doesnt clump up enough for me to thinkt hey'd be of any use at all in SC2. Less so than lurkers, in fact.
Also, defiler isnt much of a choice either. We're not getting Dark Swarm back -- that's for sure. Terran got it (PDD). I dont see PLAGUUUUUUU coming back because it's been turned into Fungal (which is sorta plaguu + ensnare). Consume would be awesome on whatever new spellcaster zerg gets, though.
'Cause we'll get a spellcaster. Protoss has 3 (HT, Sentry, and Mothership), Terran has 2 (Ghost, Raven), and we just have the Infestor (Queen is a macro mechanic, like Orbital Command and Chrono Boost)
Whatever this thing is, it's not a spellcaster. Still, it's most likely a seige unit of some sort. You don't have a massive cannon on your back without a buttload of range.
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Maybe it flies? Then it doesn't need legs at all :D
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wxXp2.jpg)
A bit updated, found on reddit. IT HAS A PRUPULSION SYSTEM (ie it slithers). That explaisn the Hydra Head. Was wondering why a roach would evolve a hydra head + mouth thing.
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So maybe it's an upgraded hydralisk then?
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On October 14 2011 16:12 Kar98 wrote:
So maybe it's an upgraded hydralisk then?
Hopefully, that would indirectly buff a god awful unit.
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On October 14 2011 16:05 Crazyeyes wrote:A bit updated, found on reddit. IT HAS A PRUPULSION SYSTEM (ie it slithers). That explaisn the Hydra Head. Was wondering why a roach would evolve a hydra head + mouth thing.
That actually looks plausible. Didn't see it in the first pic.
It does make the thing on it's back look even bulkier though.
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EPT
