• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:17
CEST 16:17
KST 23:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)73Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Sagi.gg Launcher Released BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy returning? BSL Season 23
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8639 users

[September] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 22 Next All
NexCa
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany954 Posts
October 09 2011 18:02 GMT
#221
poor Protoss ... so underpowered ;(
Best Protoss Player 4 ever - Bisu[Shield] || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326242 || THIS IS WHERE WE STAND, THIS IS WHERE THEY FALL, GIVE THEM NOTHING, BUT TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING ! || SKT FIGHTIIING
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
October 09 2011 18:07 GMT
#222
While the PvT (while worse than last, isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be) and PvZ is bad..what in the world is going on with TvZ atm? I haven't noticed any skews in the metagame that should make such big of a difference.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
October 09 2011 18:18 GMT
#223
On October 10 2011 03:07 Excludos wrote:
While the PvT (while worse than last, isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be) and PvZ is bad..what in the world is going on with TvZ atm? I haven't noticed any skews in the metagame that should make such big of a difference.


Zergs have been using runbys and counters much much more. It may not be as flashy and new as ¨hey this new unit comp blah blah blah¨ players have just gotten much much better.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
imareaver3
Profile Joined June 2010
United States906 Posts
October 09 2011 19:37 GMT
#224
On October 10 2011 03:18 windsupernova wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2011 03:07 Excludos wrote:
While the PvT (while worse than last, isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be) and PvZ is bad..what in the world is going on with TvZ atm? I haven't noticed any skews in the metagame that should make such big of a difference.


Zergs have been using runbys and counters much much more. It may not be as flashy and new as ¨hey this new unit comp blah blah blah¨ players have just gotten much much better.



...which is why Terran is crushing them, right?
BushidoSnipr
Profile Joined November 2010
United States910 Posts
October 09 2011 19:40 GMT
#225
lol-terran
fraktoasters
Profile Joined January 2011
United States617 Posts
October 09 2011 19:41 GMT
#226
On October 10 2011 03:07 Excludos wrote:
While the PvT (while worse than last, isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be) and PvZ is bad..what in the world is going on with TvZ atm? I haven't noticed any skews in the metagame that should make such big of a difference.


TvZ has always been pretty horrible but for some reason everyone complains about ZvP, PvZ, PvT instead. This is nothing new really.
InFi.asc
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany518 Posts
October 09 2011 20:03 GMT
#227
On October 09 2011 20:51 InFi.asc wrote:
Here is my contribution of GSL only for 2011 so far.
Ordered by Tournament not actual date ( as data is from Gomtv.net)

[image loading]

[image loading]

edit: added numbers for TvZ Graph


according to GSL TvZ is pretty okay and has been for a long time
* Liquid'Hero * Liquid'TLO * oGsMC * oGsFin *
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-09 20:11:13
October 09 2011 20:06 GMT
#228
Why do people call a late protoss and terran ball imba shit, but 15 broodlords with corruptors and infestors a nice late game mix?
Buzzo
Profile Joined June 2011
58 Posts
October 09 2011 20:43 GMT
#229
We need to wait a couple of months before judging the balance situation, i don't think the immortal buff will make PvZ and PvT more balanced.

The changes that "killed" protoss are:
- warpgate reasearch time change
- KA removal
- ghost cost change
- infestor buff

The first change made 4 gate useless, so T is free to tech (see the 1-1-1) and Z is free to drone without any problem, the other changes made P far weaker late game.

If Blizzard want to (re)balance the game need to change both P early game power (to compensate the 4 gate nerf) and late game. Seems to me they instead tried (with not success at all) to change protoss mid game (the archon buff and the immortal buff).
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 09 2011 20:52 GMT
#230
I guess Ghosts and Infestors are pretty good?

Bitching aside, it should be interesting to see how the P progresses in GSL once/if the metagame shifts and people start refining the styles they use.
The universe created an audience for itself.
Buzzo
Profile Joined June 2011
58 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-09 20:59:47
October 09 2011 20:59 GMT
#231
Fungal growth is still way to powerfull, c'mon 2 infestor with full mana can kill an unlimited amount of void rays/vikings, is a broken ability. Like archon toilet is/was.

Ghost is too cheap (vs Protoss).
Teejing
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany1360 Posts
October 09 2011 21:07 GMT
#232
reduce marine dmg from 6 to 5 and game is balanced !
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
October 09 2011 21:13 GMT
#233
On October 10 2011 05:43 Buzzo wrote:
We need to wait a couple of months before judging the balance situation, i don't think the immortal buff will make PvZ and PvT more balanced.

The changes that "killed" protoss are:
- warpgate reasearch time change
- KA removal
- ghost cost change
- infestor buff

The first change made 4 gate useless, so T is free to tech (see the 1-1-1) and Z is free to drone without any problem, the other changes made P far weaker late game.

If Blizzard want to (re)balance the game need to change both P early game power (to compensate the 4 gate nerf) and late game. Seems to me they instead tried (with not success at all) to change protoss mid game (the archon buff and the immortal buff).


I can tell you that GAS is not a problem against protoss, MINERALS are. Changing the ghost to 200 minerals is actually a nerf in tvp.
imareaver3
Profile Joined June 2010
United States906 Posts
October 09 2011 21:15 GMT
#234
On October 10 2011 05:59 Buzzo wrote:
Fungal growth is still way to powerfull, c'mon 2 infestor with full mana can kill an unlimited amount of void rays/vikings, is a broken ability. Like archon toilet is/was.

Ghost is too cheap (vs Protoss).



...what? 2 infestors with full mana is 4 fungals. That's 160 damage, assuming perfect casting. Void rays have 250 health. Also, in order to even do those chain fungals, you have to have position on those "infinite void rays" for 16 seconds (24 if you actually have enough infestors to kill) which is quite difficult. Archon toilet was an instant kill on anything from a single mothership and ~5 archons.
Discord42
Profile Joined January 2011
4 Posts
October 09 2011 21:16 GMT
#235
The fact the chart covers 40-60% makes the difference between the differences look substantially higher than they really are, causing a number of people, who didn't look at the exact numbers, to jump to exaggerated conclusions.

Last month the total deviance between the races was 6%, when Blizzard considers anything within 5% balanced, while a decent amount of people were freaking out, because that 6% looked so much more than a 6%.

This month the deviance has increased to 10%, which is reaching the unacceptable level, but many people seem to be treating it as if Protoss have a 20% win ratio while Terran are 80%.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Win rate is no indication of balanced because it doesn't take into consideration things like skill level, there's no way to say if the Terran players are just simply better players, or if it's an actual balance issue. There's always the map factor, as well.
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
October 09 2011 21:17 GMT
#236
On October 10 2011 06:13 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2011 05:43 Buzzo wrote:
We need to wait a couple of months before judging the balance situation, i don't think the immortal buff will make PvZ and PvT more balanced.

The changes that "killed" protoss are:
- warpgate reasearch time change
- KA removal
- ghost cost change
- infestor buff

The first change made 4 gate useless, so T is free to tech (see the 1-1-1) and Z is free to drone without any problem, the other changes made P far weaker late game.

If Blizzard want to (re)balance the game need to change both P early game power (to compensate the 4 gate nerf) and late game. Seems to me they instead tried (with not success at all) to change protoss mid game (the archon buff and the immortal buff).


I can tell you that GAS is not a problem against protoss, MINERALS are. Changing the ghost to 200 minerals is actually a nerf in tvp.


yeah I find this strange, did terran realized they had ghosts after reading the patch note?
Bayyne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1967 Posts
October 09 2011 21:18 GMT
#237
So this is 1 month's statistics correct?

If so, why the immediate jump on the imbalance bandwagon? There are always new trends in styles, strategies being developed; players meta-gaming each other; new maps in tournaments.

However, if the high win-rates persist for much longer than 1 month then there could be a problem.

For me personally, I don't base too much off of 1 month's stats alone.
Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
October 09 2011 21:21 GMT
#238
On October 10 2011 06:18 Bayyne wrote:
So this is 1 month's statistics correct?

If so, why the immediate jump on the imbalance bandwagon? There are always new trends in styles, strategies being developed; players meta-gaming each other; new maps in tournaments.

However, if the high win-rates persist for much longer than 1 month then there could be a problem.

For me personally, I don't base too much off of 1 month's stats alone.


Protoss has <50% winrate since march-april
kodas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States418 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-09 21:32:16
October 09 2011 21:22 GMT
#239
On October 09 2011 14:55 dooraven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2011 13:39 kodas wrote:
On October 09 2011 01:24 freetgy wrote:
On October 09 2011 01:19 Snowbear wrote:
On October 08 2011 05:21 Gatored wrote:
On October 08 2011 03:50 CuHz wrote:
if i could be able to start over; i wish i started off picking terran in BW + sc2. I sometimes offrace as terran and i dont even know their hot keys and i can easily beat top master player protsses =X.


I think every protoss feels that way.


Don't forget that there are alot of terrans I know which defeat top terran players with protoss without even trying...


replay or it didn't happen

we have seen mc off racing as terran and defeating people easily.

MKP(as protoss) vs slayersMMA, At the last GSL final.


Rofl those were joke games...

Name a SERIOUS game that MC has won as Terran vs anyone....
The only reason I said anything about those games is because the only time I can think of MC playing Terran and beating people is at that same event...But I guess you wanted to just throw context to the wind..
Get paper, fuck bitches, smoke trees, mass thors.
algee
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany12 Posts
October 09 2011 21:27 GMT
#240
44% + 46% + 56% = messed up in my book

forgive me, im not a huge fan of statistics, could someone explain me what is up with these charts?

other than that, chart looks still fine to me.
the more of blue is probably the 1001 easy win rush styles for terran and the zero ability of people to adapt and come up with a solution, other than the standard forum whine about imbalance.
My favorite number? Jay.
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 22 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech125
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5536
Bisu 3045
Soulkey 1209
Jaedong 1023
Horang2 616
EffOrt 571
Mini 403
actioN 362
Larva 326
ZerO 247
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 236
Yoon 118
Mind 95
Pusan 85
Sea.KH 78
Shinee 76
Sharp 76
hero 72
Dewaltoss 67
Snow 62
Hyun 56
sorry 52
Barracks 44
Bale 44
ToSsGirL 35
Sacsri 22
scan(afreeca) 18
Trap 18
NaDa 15
Rock 14
Terrorterran 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
zelot 8
Icarus 6
Noble 6
Dota 2
Gorgc4835
qojqva2970
Dendi1081
Counter-Strike
Fnx 551
Other Games
olofmeister1443
hiko938
B2W.Neo753
Lowko349
crisheroes278
DeMusliM265
Pyrionflax216
XBOCT198
Hui .192
Livibee165
Liquid`VortiX152
QueenE70
Mew2King51
Liquid`RaSZi35
ZerO(Twitch)18
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1083
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream34
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 50
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV649
League of Legends
• Nemesis2507
• Jankos1995
Other Games
• Shiphtur151
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
9h 43m
Patches Events
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 19h
INu's Battles
1d 20h
Percival vs TBD
Zoun vs herO
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
OSC
3 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Patches Events
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.