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On October 08 2011 19:31 Grummler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 17:50 grappasc wrote:
turrets are buildings and vikings are... bio. There are 3 upgrade paths for Terran: bio, mech and air. There are 3 production facilities: barracks, factory and starport. Now, try again: turrets are buildings and vikings are... a.) bio b.) mech c.) air d.) they can be repaired so they share upgrades with factory units herp derp e.) terran op
okay, I don't know which mushrooms you've been eating. terran has WAY MORE upgrade paths than that.
1) infantry weapons
2) infantry armor
3) vehicle weapons
4) vehicle plating
5) ship weapons
6) ship plating
on top of this you can upgrade your buildings armor and damage
many units have other upgrades too
and production facilities? haven't you ever used command centers? and orbital commands also create a unit no other facility creates. the mule!
dividing them to biological, mechanical and AIRIAL only makes zero sense.
edit: just a hint about buildings. planetary fortresses are pretty freakin' awesome!
PS. you can see a pattern here too, all units and buildings have defensive and offensive upgrades. maybe some upgrades break this pattern, but I could see 2 main categories of units here. you can make offensive infantry and defensive vehicles! maybe even offensive infantry and defensive infantry, but I haven't tested that!
edit2: I meant building range. I'm so stupid!
(edit3: if some soulless lump of fat didn't get it, or if you just don't play starcraft and you just happen to watch this thread and think it's entertaining, which is absolutely fine, because it is pretty hilarious, here's a hint:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ck0v7.jpg)
you'll find RPG games by clicking multiplayer, join game, and then there's some filters where I think you can choose role playing games, if my memory serves me correctly. there you can find games where you can make "mech" that only consists of land units.)
edit4: nachtwind, misquoting people is pretty bad mannered...
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On October 08 2011 19:41 grappasc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 19:31 Grummler wrote:On October 08 2011 17:50 grappasc wrote:
turrets are buildings and vikings are... bio. There are 3 upgrade paths for Terran: bio, mech and air. okay, I don't know which mushrooms you've been eating. terran has WAY MORE upgrade paths than that. 1) infantry weapons
2) infantry armor
--> bio ?
3) vehicle weapons
4) vehicle plating
--> mech ?!?
5) ship weapons
6) ship plating--> air ?!?!?
wtf YOU have the mushrooms give sum !
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So much for the discussion about the new Terran unit. Lets just all discuss about how OP Terran is and QQ.
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I like it how everyone says Terran is the most flexible race with so many tech paths ect. ect. ect when really.... How often do you see a Terran mass T3 in game like Pro Zergs do? Is Terran like Protoss where you just get a Death Ball and A move to victory (no offense here intended).
Terran really isn't the most flexible race, if anything... they just have maybe a few more harass options... thats all. If you ask me, zerg is the most flexible race... they can mass any freaking unit they want and it's a "viable" composition..maybe bar the Hydralisk.
Everyone talks about how underpowered Protoss is... has Protoss even explored other unit compositions, synergy and the likes yet? Not really, all I see is every damn Toss mass a Deathball, and if it loses.. they'll just start the rant of how underpowered they are....
Zerg likes to have a bitch all from time to time, HELLO! you can at least mass almost any unit you want and it's pretty much viable.
Im done with this thread.....
P.S - but yeah, terran is so OP because they are just sooooo flexible.
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On October 08 2011 19:57 ZorBa.G wrote:
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I don't know if you're trolling or not, but Terran is powerful BECAUSE of those support units. And Bio is far from being the only viable composition in all 3 match ups... You use T1 units in all 3 match ups like every race, you're not exactly «playing bio».
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On October 08 2011 19:57 ZorBa.G wrote:
So much for the discussion about the new Terran unit. Lets just all discuss about how OP Terran is and QQ.
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I like it how everyone says Terran is the most flexible race with so many tech paths ect. ect. ect when really.... How often do you see a Terran mass T3 in game like Pro Zergs do? Is Terran like Protoss where you just get a Death Ball and A move to victory (no offense here intended).
Terran really isn't the most flexible race, if anything... they just have maybe a few more harass options... thats all. If you ask me, zerg is the most flexible race... they can mass any freaking unit they want and it's a "viable" composition..maybe bar the Hydralisk.
Everyone talks about how underpowered Protoss is... has Protoss even explored other unit compositions, synergy and the likes yet? Not really, all I see is every damn Toss mass a Deathball, and if it loses.. they'll just start the rant of how underpowered they are....
Zerg likes to have a bitch all from time to time, HELLO! you can at least mass almost any unit you want and it's pretty much viable.
Im done with this thread.....
P.S - but yeah, terran is so OP because they are just sooooo flexible.
agree with you
t vt = mass marine tank meidvac
tvz= mass marine tank medivac (maybe ghost)
tvP=MMM (ghost viking)
you will never see any other unit combo because they dont fit
you will never see from pro terran that they add tier 3 units into their tank marine or mmm ball
i mean even a reaper that you could built in the barack is not possible to built
why ?
you could have acces to speed uppgrade
and have enough raxes to do so
the reason is simple 40 sec built time
i dont say decrease it because they would got imba in the early game for all in
but the design @sc2 dont allow you to use they proplery like ohter units if you compare them
a marauder need 28 sec to built
so if you built a reaper you could in that time have like 1.5 marauder produced
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On October 08 2011 20:07 perser84 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 19:57 ZorBa.G wrote:
So much for the discussion about the new Terran unit. Lets just all discuss about how OP Terran is and QQ.
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I like it how everyone says Terran is the most flexible race with so many tech paths ect. ect. ect when really.... How often do you see a Terran mass T3 in game like Pro Zergs do? Is Terran like Protoss where you just get a Death Ball and A move to victory (no offense here intended).
Terran really isn't the most flexible race, if anything... they just have maybe a few more harass options... thats all. If you ask me, zerg is the most flexible race... they can mass any freaking unit they want and it's a "viable" composition..maybe bar the Hydralisk.
Everyone talks about how underpowered Protoss is... has Protoss even explored other unit compositions, synergy and the likes yet? Not really, all I see is every damn Toss mass a Deathball, and if it loses.. they'll just start the rant of how underpowered they are....
Zerg likes to have a bitch all from time to time, HELLO! you can at least mass almost any unit you want and it's pretty much viable.
Im done with this thread.....
P.S - but yeah, terran is so OP because they are just sooooo flexible. agree with you t vt = mass marine tank meidvac tvz= mass marine tank medivac (maybe ghost) tvP=MMM (ghost viking) you will never see any other unit combo because they dont fit you will never see from pro terran that they add tier 3 units into their tank marine or mmm ball
TvT is
Earlygame:
-MMM
-MM Tank
-Hellion Tank
Midgame:
Win with MMM or Transition into more Tanks...
Tank Viking
Endgame:
Skyterran
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On October 08 2011 20:07 perser84 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 19:57 ZorBa.G wrote:
So much for the discussion about the new Terran unit. Lets just all discuss about how OP Terran is and QQ.
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I like it how everyone says Terran is the most flexible race with so many tech paths ect. ect. ect when really.... How often do you see a Terran mass T3 in game like Pro Zergs do? Is Terran like Protoss where you just get a Death Ball and A move to victory (no offense here intended).
Terran really isn't the most flexible race, if anything... they just have maybe a few more harass options... thats all. If you ask me, zerg is the most flexible race... they can mass any freaking unit they want and it's a "viable" composition..maybe bar the Hydralisk.
Everyone talks about how underpowered Protoss is... has Protoss even explored other unit compositions, synergy and the likes yet? Not really, all I see is every damn Toss mass a Deathball, and if it loses.. they'll just start the rant of how underpowered they are....
Zerg likes to have a bitch all from time to time, HELLO! you can at least mass almost any unit you want and it's pretty much viable.
Im done with this thread.....
P.S - but yeah, terran is so OP because they are just sooooo flexible. agree with you t vt = mass marine tank meidvac tvz= mass marine tank medivac (maybe ghost) tvP=MMM (ghost viking) you will never see any other unit combo because they dont fit you will never see from pro terran that they add tier 3 units into their tank marine or mmm ball i mean even a reaper that you could built in the barack is not possible to built why ? you could have acces to speed uppgrade and have enough raxes to do so the reason is simple 40 sec built time i dont say decrease it because they would got imba in the early game for all in but the design @sc2 dont allow you to use they proplery like ohter units if you compare them a marauder need 28 sec to built so if you built a reaper you could in that time have like 1.5 marauder produced
Mech is viable in both TvT and TvZ. Alot of people say that Mech is the way to go in TvT.
In TvP it isn't though =/, hopefully it will be in HOTS 
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
As a Terran player I'll say that mech is viable in TvT and sometimes TvZ, but in TvP it's just awful. I'm not sure if we're counting Thors as T3 here, but BC's are just not really viable outside of TvT, that's why we never really see them. We see Thors for support though. I think BC's are like the only real T3 unit I'd say the Terran has.
Also, people complaining about the reaper don't use them properly. I've been learning to use them like MMA and they own.
They do need buffing though. I'm interested to see if this is a reaper style unit.
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On October 08 2011 16:05 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 15:32 NicolBolas wrote:On October 08 2011 14:19 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
And with that, your statement that "Terran is a tech beneficial race and that protoss and zerg tend to be tier 1 reliant" is completely wrong! Which might be a fine point, if that was what I said. It wasn't, and I don't know how you got it wrong since you in fact quoted me: Me:
I find it odd how people complain about Terrans using "only Tier 1" units in TvP (despite the fact that Medivacs are not Tier 1). While Protosses and Zerg do incorporate a few high-tech units into their player, what is their army primarily composed of? Zerglings/Banelings/Roaches, or Zealots/Stalkers/Sentries. Yes, they get some Infestors and Colossi in there, but TvP play incorporates Medivacs, Vikings (where needed) and Ghosts (where needed). All higher-tech units. I said that they all races rely on Tier 1 units as the mainstay of their armies. The preponderance of their armies are Tier 1 units. They each add higher-tech units, but this doesn't change the fact that the majority of the units on the field are Tier 1. What is the Protoss deathball made of? Mostly Zealots and Stalkers. What is a Zerg attack team made of? Mostly Zerglings/Banelings/Roaches. Yes, Colossi and Infestors matter. They act as force multipliers, making a strong composition stronger. The Protoss deathball isn't nearly as effective without Colossi. But that doesn't change the fact that the ball is mostly made of Tier 1 units. In fact, there are games where the mainstay of the armies aren't Tier 1. TvT. And TvZ, to a degree. Why? Because the Terran is Meching. Because the Terran builds Factory units, and lots of them. This is the anomaly in StarCraft (both 1 and 2), not the rule. Every other race relies primarily on Tier 1 units. But somehow, it's wrong for Terrans to do so. My point is this: so many Terran players want to be able to just Mech. They want to produce Factory units and win. Yet you never see Protoss players who want to just be able to mass Robos and in. You never see Zerg players who want to just mass Tier 2 Zerg units and win. All of them accept that the preponderance of their army will be Tier 1. Tier 2&3 are support units, meant to augment the main army and act as force multipliers. Only Terran players see it as their God-given right to build their army from Tier 2. Only Terran players see having their army composed primarily of Tier 1 units as being negative, even though everyone does that. On October 08 2011 14:19 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
The reason people say this, is that Terran PREFER the tier 1 battle, while protoss PREFER the tier 3 battle. Medivacs are good army multipliers and vikings are necessary to deal with colossus and ghosts are useful in small numbers (as well as necessary to deal with high templar)... but all in all, a Terran player's tooth fairy wish is to not NEED any vikings or ghosts and just MAKE MORE BIO because bio is super efficient.
To contrast, the protoss player's tooth fairy wish is to have MORE RANGE COLOSSUS FASTER or substitute with MORE STORM TEMPLAR FASTER... because that is the unit that gives the army strength! Except that you don't see threads bitching about how Protoss players have to keep making Stalkers and Zealots. You don't see threads bitching about how they wish they could just make more Robos and Colossi, and win with just that. Yet you do see threads bitching about how Terrans can't just make Tier 2 units and win in TvP. You see threads saying that it's wrong for Terrans to have to rely on anything but the almighty Siege Tank. BTW, does RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS really help MAKE YOUR POINT better? If you NEED to EMPHASIZE something, it's a LOT MORE REASONABLE to just USE italics. That way, you don't look like you're YELLING. You really got it wrong man.. 1, For some reason, you hate factory units, period.
Yes, because not wanting every Terran match to be Mech means that I hate Factory units.
Though in the interest of full disclosure, I did stop watching SC1 matches because I was so tired of seeing Mech play. It became so ritualized and static that I couldn't stomach TvP and TvT anymore.
On October 08 2011 16:05 Everlong wrote:
2, The whole thing with tier units you describe would work in other games probably, but not in Starcraft. You just completly ignore the fact that Terrans don't share upgrades for both bio and mech units and therefor once you commit to bio, it's really hard to transition into mech and other way around. This is the reason people want to mech from the start of the game. And why would they want to mech? Because bio is good, but it doesn't cut it anymore in later stages of the game.
3, Now that you understeand there is something like upgrades in the game and you understeand Terrans don't have shared upgrades like Protoss and Zerg, there is no way Terran could possibly just mass T1 (Marines/Hellions, agree?) units with adition of some T2/T3 (Marauder/Ghost/Tank/Thor) units and hope to win like you seem to believe this game should be played (wrong).
I think I made it clear and I hope you just think more before you write something stupid like "They want to produce Factory units and win.".
It's funny. Many Protoss players add Phoenixes to their play, depending on their goals. Void Rays have been semi-popular additions to deathballs. Zerg players frequently incorporate Mutalisks in their play.
And yet, Protoss and Zergs are able to upgrade all of these. Mutas will often get +1 or even +2 upgrades. Protoss players that incorporate air will spend the money to get a +1 or +2. Zergs going for Mutas will upgrade Muta attack (or possibly carapace), melee or ranged attack, and ground carapace. That's 3 upgrade lines. Protoss players will get ground attack and armor, plus weapon attack. Again, 3 upgrade lines.
So why is it that Terran players can't do that? Why can't a Terran player get Barracks attack/armor and, say, air attack? Or vehicle attack? Then they could incorporate a few support units into their Bio play while still using primarily Tier 1 units.
If a Terran player committing to Bio means that they play under a time limit, then fix that. Why does the solution have to be "abandon Tier 1 entirely and find a way to build only Tier 2?" Why can't the solution be "make Bio not suck late-game?" That's the solution both Protoss and Zerg use.
If Bio is all-in, that's a problem in and of itself. That's not how the game should be, and that is something that ought to be corrected by making Bio not suck late-game. And the best way to do that is to give Bio some Factory or StarPort support units that compliment them. Medivacs are a good start, but there aren't any other real force multipliers, the way Infestors and Colossi are for Zerg and Protoss.
The Terran should not have to transition out of Bio in order to be effective late-game.
Also, how are Hellions Tier 1, but Marauders Tier 2? Marauders only require a tech-lab; Hellions need a whole new production building.
On October 08 2011 16:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +Mech is already viable in 2/3rds of the matchups. Does Mech really need to be the dominant playstyle in all matchups?
No, but it should be viable in al 3 matchups, like it was in BW. And its very, very, very, very far from the dominant choice in TvZ. Its not even 100% dominant in TvT wtf. There is literally no reason to not want mech to be a possible option in each matchup, whats the problem with variety?
It's not a question of variety. It's a question of dominance.
Mech, by its very nature, gets bigger and stronger with time. Upgrades, multiple overlapping fields of fire, etc. A 200/200 Mech army is exceedingly powerful, far moreso than a 200/200 primarily bio army. Mech is expensive, but extremely cost-efficient; it will always do lots of damage before the enemy even gets a shot off in return.
Because of that, if you can find a way to make Mech work, it will be the best option. Maybe not immediately. But as players get better and better, it will become the dominant form of play in that matchup. It doesn't need to be 100% to be the predominant way of playing; as long as it's more than 75%, that's still dominating.
And I can easily turn that around. Why shouldn't Terrans be able to go pure-air, with maybe a couple of ground units (Marines) for support? Shouldn't Terrans be able to mass Vikings and Banshees, with Medivacs for a bit of extra damage, with an eventual transition into BCs?
Wouldn't that create some variety in the matchups? But nobody's arguing for that (which I think would be awesome).
On October 08 2011 20:07 perser84 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 19:57 ZorBa.G wrote:
So much for the discussion about the new Terran unit. Lets just all discuss about how OP Terran is and QQ.
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I like it how everyone says Terran is the most flexible race with so many tech paths ect. ect. ect when really.... How often do you see a Terran mass T3 in game like Pro Zergs do? Is Terran like Protoss where you just get a Death Ball and A move to victory (no offense here intended).
Terran really isn't the most flexible race, if anything... they just have maybe a few more harass options... thats all. If you ask me, zerg is the most flexible race... they can mass any freaking unit they want and it's a "viable" composition..maybe bar the Hydralisk.
Everyone talks about how underpowered Protoss is... has Protoss even explored other unit compositions, synergy and the likes yet? Not really, all I see is every damn Toss mass a Deathball, and if it loses.. they'll just start the rant of how underpowered they are....
Zerg likes to have a bitch all from time to time, HELLO! you can at least mass almost any unit you want and it's pretty much viable.
Im done with this thread.....
P.S - but yeah, terran is so OP because they are just sooooo flexible. agree with you t vt = mass marine tank meidvac tvz= mass marine tank medivac (maybe ghost) tvP=MMM (ghost viking)
I freely admit that I don't watch much TvT (because they tend to be long and boring), but all the ones I have seen, both players skip bio entirely. It's Hellions for some harass, possibly Banshee harass, into Siege Tanks and Vikings. I haven't seen lots of bio-play in TvT since Beta.
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The following would blow my mind:
SCVs no longer can repair mech units (buildings yes).
New unit is a mechanic (can repair mech)
oh plz plz plz plz this...
EDIT Dear god how (why) did this become a balance discussion...*facepalm*... boooooo
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On October 08 2011 19:41 grappasc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 19:31 Grummler wrote:On October 08 2011 17:50 grappasc wrote:
turrets are buildings and vikings are... bio. There are 3 upgrade paths for Terran: bio, mech and air. There are 3 production facilities: barracks, factory and starport. Now, try again: turrets are buildings and vikings are... a.) bio b.) mech c.) air d.) they can be repaired so they share upgrades with factory units herp derp e.) terran op okay, I don't know which mushrooms you've been eating. terran has WAY MORE upgrade paths than that. 1) infantry weapons 2) infantry armor 3) vehicle weapons 4) vehicle plating 5) ship weapons 6) ship plating
I have no idea if this is a joke, a troll, or a depressingly obvious display of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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On October 08 2011 19:11 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 14:35 danl9rm wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 08 2011 14:31 saltymango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 14:24 Geovu wrote:On October 08 2011 04:30 nerak wrote:On October 08 2011 04:00 Chargelot wrote:On October 08 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:
- Fastest ground unit in the game
Have you ever seen a speedling? Hellions: 4.25 Speedling: 4.6991 Speedling on creep: 6.10883 Hellion with legs: 6,803 I love how technically you didn't use a decimal, so you are saying a hellion with legs would cross the map in under 1 second.  In a lot of countries the , is the decimal in a number America is the Apple of the real world. We just have to be different. Even when it doesn't make sense. (Here's looking at you one-button mouse.) Ok, but seriously, the comma being the decimal doesn't make sense. Same as meters not making sense? and Kilometers? (Clicks in american millitary language). Different doesn't mean better, and comma is the decimal point in many languages
I thought I was being overly transparent with my joke, but I guess I wasn't. How did you miss the whole first part of my post? How? The second part of my post doesn't make sense without the first, please read the whole thing! Arrrgh;hlla;skd.
p.s. Of course the metric system is better. That's why we use it in math/physics. Too bad we tried to turn the road signs to metric (miles per hour -> kph) but so many people just ended up going way over the speed limit that we gave up, lol.
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supermule: Uses flames to burn down minerals faster. Mines a patch in 100 secs and is usable in fights ö.ö
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Just a note to players who think that terran is flexible, it's not, you build one set of production facilities, and you can't change that without investing a ton of resources and time. Factories can't turn into barracks or starports... no matter how hard you try.
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On October 08 2011 20:15 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 20:07 perser84 wrote:On October 08 2011 19:57 ZorBa.G wrote:
So much for the discussion about the new Terran unit. Lets just all discuss about how OP Terran is and QQ.
Right now IMO, bio play seems to be the only viable composition is all 3 match ups... well it seems to be going that way anyway. The rest of the units.... just support.
I like it how everyone says Terran is the most flexible race with so many tech paths ect. ect. ect when really.... How often do you see a Terran mass T3 in game like Pro Zergs do? Is Terran like Protoss where you just get a Death Ball and A move to victory (no offense here intended).
Terran really isn't the most flexible race, if anything... they just have maybe a few more harass options... thats all. If you ask me, zerg is the most flexible race... they can mass any freaking unit they want and it's a "viable" composition..maybe bar the Hydralisk.
Everyone talks about how underpowered Protoss is... has Protoss even explored other unit compositions, synergy and the likes yet? Not really, all I see is every damn Toss mass a Deathball, and if it loses.. they'll just start the rant of how underpowered they are....
Zerg likes to have a bitch all from time to time, HELLO! you can at least mass almost any unit you want and it's pretty much viable.
Im done with this thread.....
P.S - but yeah, terran is so OP because they are just sooooo flexible. agree with you t vt = mass marine tank meidvac tvz= mass marine tank medivac (maybe ghost) tvP=MMM (ghost viking) you will never see any other unit combo because they dont fit you will never see from pro terran that they add tier 3 units into their tank marine or mmm ball i mean even a reaper that you could built in the barack is not possible to built why ? you could have acces to speed uppgrade and have enough raxes to do so the reason is simple 40 sec built time i dont say decrease it because they would got imba in the early game for all in but the design @sc2 dont allow you to use they proplery like ohter units if you compare them a marauder need 28 sec to built so if you built a reaper you could in that time have like 1.5 marauder produced Mech is viable in both TvT and TvZ. Alot of people say that Mech is the way to go in TvT. In TvP it isn't though =/, hopefully it will be in HOTS
goody makes it work.
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On October 08 2011 17:33 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 16:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:My point is this: so many Terran players want to be able to just Mech. They want to produce Factory units and win. Yet you never see Protoss players who want to just be able to mass Robos and in. You never see Zerg players who want to just mass Tier 2 Zerg units and win. All of them accept that the preponderance of their army will be Tier 1. Tier 2&3 are support units, meant to augment the main army and act as force multipliers.
Only Terran players see it as their God-given right to build their army from Tier 2. Only Terran players see having their army composed primarily of Tier 1 units as being negative, even though everyone does that. ..... Maybe because it was that way for 12 years in SC1? Maybe because not every race should be the same? Protoss had the same type of builds PvZ anyway, where they made only reaver/sair - the fact that these builds exist in BW makes the variety sooooooo much better than if you have to make marines every game, every matchup -_- Mech is already viable in 2/3rds of the matchups. Does Mech really need to be the dominant playstyle in all matchups?
No, but it should be viable in al 3 matchups, like it was in BW. And its very, very, very, very far from the dominant choice in TvZ. Its not even 100% dominant in TvT wtf. There is literally no reason to not want mech to be a possible option in each matchup, whats the problem with variety? I should've known that it would be Jinro that put up such a reasonable post... To add on, Mech is far from viable in TvZ against a good Zerg player. Mech has nothing remotely close to decent anti-air. You have NOTHING to deal with Mutalisks. The Mutalisks magic box the Thors, then they kill everything. If you bring Vikings, then it's a bit trickier (since Mutalisks are good against Vikings but you also don't want them to bunch up because of the Thors). And since even before the patch, Mech wasn't 100% dominant in TvT due to the rise of pure bio builds that abuse their mobility to put he Mech player out of his rhythm and forcing responses. Bio AND mech should both be very viable matchups similar to how Protoss has the midgame options of Colossi or Templar and Zerg has quite a few options in terms of their composition. Terran has 3 options in TvT, 1 option (in a long term game) in TvP, and 2 options in TvZ (though mech seems to lose it's timing after mass Mutalisks become a problem). But why are we diverging from the original fun point of the thread? I'm still sad they don't have a "Super MULE" option in the voting. :[
Er.. why should mech be viable in all 3 match ups again? I mean ppl mention broodwar but.. Bio wasn't really "viable" in PvT except as an timing attack all in. Nor was bio viable in TvT... not every tech path should be viable in all 3 match ups. Sair reaver was viable as a harass (Except for a brief time in it's history but i don't think we can really count that cause it was quickly countered and toss was forced to go back to having gateway as their backbone), and mech is viable as a harass as well. I don't really see any legitamacy to this argument except he brings up BW when it's convenient but doesn't see that a lot of his other points were NOT true is BW.
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On October 09 2011 13:13 Mirror0423 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 17:33 RyLai wrote:On October 08 2011 16:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:My point is this: so many Terran players want to be able to just Mech. They want to produce Factory units and win. Yet you never see Protoss players who want to just be able to mass Robos and in. You never see Zerg players who want to just mass Tier 2 Zerg units and win. All of them accept that the preponderance of their army will be Tier 1. Tier 2&3 are support units, meant to augment the main army and act as force multipliers.
Only Terran players see it as their God-given right to build their army from Tier 2. Only Terran players see having their army composed primarily of Tier 1 units as being negative, even though everyone does that. ..... Maybe because it was that way for 12 years in SC1? Maybe because not every race should be the same? Protoss had the same type of builds PvZ anyway, where they made only reaver/sair - the fact that these builds exist in BW makes the variety sooooooo much better than if you have to make marines every game, every matchup -_- Mech is already viable in 2/3rds of the matchups. Does Mech really need to be the dominant playstyle in all matchups?
No, but it should be viable in al 3 matchups, like it was in BW. And its very, very, very, very far from the dominant choice in TvZ. Its not even 100% dominant in TvT wtf. There is literally no reason to not want mech to be a possible option in each matchup, whats the problem with variety? I should've known that it would be Jinro that put up such a reasonable post... To add on, Mech is far from viable in TvZ against a good Zerg player. Mech has nothing remotely close to decent anti-air. You have NOTHING to deal with Mutalisks. The Mutalisks magic box the Thors, then they kill everything. If you bring Vikings, then it's a bit trickier (since Mutalisks are good against Vikings but you also don't want them to bunch up because of the Thors). And since even before the patch, Mech wasn't 100% dominant in TvT due to the rise of pure bio builds that abuse their mobility to put he Mech player out of his rhythm and forcing responses. Bio AND mech should both be very viable matchups similar to how Protoss has the midgame options of Colossi or Templar and Zerg has quite a few options in terms of their composition. Terran has 3 options in TvT, 1 option (in a long term game) in TvP, and 2 options in TvZ (though mech seems to lose it's timing after mass Mutalisks become a problem). But why are we diverging from the original fun point of the thread? I'm still sad they don't have a "Super MULE" option in the voting. :[ Er.. why should mech be viable in all 3 match ups again? I mean ppl mention broodwar but.. Bio wasn't really "viable" in PvT except as an timing attack all in. Nor was bio viable in TvT... not every tech path should be viable in all 3 match ups. Sair reaver was viable as a harass (Except for a brief time in it's history but i don't think we can really count that cause it was quickly countered and toss was forced to go back to having gateway as their backbone), and mech is viable as a harass as well. I don't really see any legitamacy to this argument except he brings up BW when it's convenient but doesn't see that a lot of his other points were NOT true is BW.
Ideally, having several viable tech paths does lead to more varied games. Personally, I wouldn't bring up BW as a good example since Mech was completely dominant in 2 of the 3 TvX matchups.
However, I do see SC2 TvT as a standard for what an ideal SC2 matchup should be like in terms of varied viable unit compositions. Marine+tank, Bio+tank, pure bio, pure mech, and sky Terran seem to all be viable compositions in SC2 TvT, which makes the matchup my favorite to watch in SC2 due to the great possibility of watching asymmetric unit compositions in a mirror matchup (such as pure bio vs pure mech).
I feel that TvT and TvZ are fine in terms of having a variety of viable unit compositions, but TvP is too fixated on MMM due to the weakness of mech in the matchup. Although some people dislike Siege Tanks, they do add a lot of depth to the game due to their value in positional tactics, and it makes me sad to see the core unit of BW TvP become much rarer in SC2 TvP. Ideally, bio and mech should be equally viable in SC2 TvP, and I hope the new Terran unit allows for this alongside other tweaks to the race.
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So guys... cool new unit? :D
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On October 06 2011 07:39 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:I think I'm in love <3 Sigh..
That's what i thought too :O do they put the lurker to the roach ? This sound good
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On October 09 2011 13:38 StoLiVe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 07:39 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:On October 06 2011 03:44 venom0us wrote:Someone posted this on Blizz forums, dont have any info on it, but looks sorta legit! http://oi54.tinypic.com/akejps.jpg ![[image loading]](http://oi54.tinypic.com/akejps.jpg) Edit: Probably a fake but looks cool. A boy can dream cant he??  I think I'm in love <3 Sigh.. That's what i thought too :O do they put the lurker to the roach ? This sound good
Unfortunately, the picture is already a confirmed fake, as it is just a silhouette of existing Lurker art from MrJack.
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EPT
