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Starcraft II on ESPN 2? - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
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iyoume
Profile Joined May 2011
2501 Posts
October 01 2011 11:59 GMT
#601
On October 01 2011 19:11 DannyJ wrote:
As long as it doesnt cut into my NFL viewing im all for it.


haha. ESPN only has Monday Night Football.

but i doubt they'd want to air MLG. Saturday is college FB day, and i'm sure they'd much rather dedicate their airtime to that than starcraft.
BeSt <3 | HoeJJa | Leta :: team Polt
Kiyo.
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2284 Posts
October 01 2011 12:02 GMT
#602
On October 01 2011 20:55 Milvus wrote:
wait a sec, is that the same guys who wanted to have football (the real one) being organised in four quarters in order to show more ads?


What? They show MLS and Premier League games normally, with commercials at the same time as everyone else.
KT Rolster & StarTale <3 | twitter.com/RayFoxII - twitch.tv/RayFoxII
feanor1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1899 Posts
October 01 2011 12:06 GMT
#603
On October 01 2011 20:16 crappen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2011 19:01 Joey Wheeler wrote:
On October 01 2011 18:38 crappen wrote:
On October 01 2011 17:37 Zooper31 wrote:
On October 01 2011 17:36 IveReturned wrote:
Do you pay to watch ESPN 2?


You pay for cable so yes technically you do.

To all the people saying TV is an outdated platform. I just lol in your face and walk away. Maybe to a 20yr old atm TV is outdated compared to all the technology we have now but thats not the point in this thread. The point is that bringing it to TV, and the biggest sports channel in argueably the world, would bring so much mainstream attention to SC2 that we desperately need.

Who cares if TV is gonna be phased out in 10-20yrs. We are talking about now, not some hipster future...


Just curious, but do SC2 desperately need more mainstream attention? Why?


bigger is better
progamers get more money
streams get more viewers
blizzard takes more of an interest in their game

I mean honestly, how would it being mainstream not be a good thing? I guess you think Brood War was "too mainstream"?


And I also lol at the retards complaining about how TV is outdated. It's still the #1 media outlet. Are you saying that the fact Brood War was on 2 channels in Korea didn't help its popularity? Some people just can't think for themselves...


Not sure why you are believe that bigger is better. Would classical music suddenly become better if it pops up at the mainstream radio? I dont think having a shitty channel with commercials all the time would do us viewers any good.

Do you really think popularity is always a good thing? Blizzard is taking a good amount of interest in their game already, dont get greedy. Just throwing money at SC2 won't just magically make everything for the better.

I dont see WoW with its huge population doing so much better then SC2 in terms of quality, do you? Cause I sure as hell dont. Or how about CoD?

If you SC2 t survive as a "sport" where people make a living playing it Bigger is without a doubt better.
No if Classical music was just on the mainstream radio it wouldn't magically become better. But it would make it a topic of conversation, boost sales, expose more people to classical music and get kids interested in studying it.
ArcticFox
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1092 Posts
October 01 2011 12:07 GMT
#604
On October 01 2011 20:59 iyoume wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2011 19:11 DannyJ wrote:
As long as it doesnt cut into my NFL viewing im all for it.


haha. ESPN only has Monday Night Football.

but i doubt they'd want to air MLG. Saturday is college FB day, and i'm sure they'd much rather dedicate their airtime to that than starcraft.

They probably wouldn't air it live, but they don't have to. The already hardcore fans like us are watching it online anyway, and it's not in MLG's interest to have ESPN competing directly against it.

As was mentioned before, ESPN had a HUGE hand in exploding poker popularity, and I could see a similar style of show being created for MLG. ESPN doesn't broadcast poker live (at least on regular TV, of course there's PPV and online streams, which MLG already has) and instead condenses a long, large event down into its most exciting moments. I could easily see something similar happening where they show the backstories for all the players, enhance the rivalries, and show some of the best games being re-casted by an MLG-hired casting crew (hopefully one of their primary streaming crews, and not one of the people that does the post-MLG casting).

If it's done poorly, like more or less every other video game production I've seen on ESPN, nothing is really lost -- everything will continue on as it has. If it's done well, it could be absolutely huge in bringing Starcraft into the mainstream, and that should excite everybody here.

It's the first big step toward making SC2 here like BW was in Korea. Please contain your erections.
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
October 01 2011 12:10 GMT
#605
Why would I watch it on TV when I have the internet? I'm not paying for a cable package just to be able to watch something on TV I can already watch on the internet hi-def.
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
October 01 2011 12:16 GMT
#606
On October 01 2011 19:34 j0ker wrote:
You have to take a step back and look at this objectively. This isn't a new league or tournament that is relying on TV viewership to sustain itself. This is MLG, currently a staple of foreign sc2 and a very successful, sustainable business model that is potentially offering programming to Espn. The only risk here is that Espn wouldn't bother itself with SC2 again, which would be fine if this turned out to be unsuccessful.

Loving the armchair TV execs discussing programming length and commercial timing. Lets be realistic, this isn't going to get a primetime slot. Espn2 has a long history of covering niche "sports", and even has a history with Mlg. They also have a history of poker, which EXPLODED in popularity and spread like wildfire across the television medium and all over the internet. Poker coverage started on espn(2) as niche programming to fill in slots that were taken up by the 80th rerun of sportscenter.

From espn's perspective, they are looking at a game/"esport" that is currently experiencing pretty incredible growth in the U.S.(and to a slightly lesser extent in Europe), and has a decade-long history of extreme popularity in South Korea. They are also very reminiscent of the explosion of poker, of which they were a very big helping hand. They see this as an opportunity to grab Starcraft 2 first, and to nurture it and help it explode like they did with poker.

From the perspective of a Starcraft 2 fan, this has to be viewed as nothing other than a huge opportunity. I think we all agree that SC2 doesn't NEED to be shown on TV, the internet is the ideal medium and currently works best. But one has to realize that, despite programming becoming more and more popular online, there are ALWAYS going to be people that want to lay down on their couch and flip channels. And there are a lot more of those people than internet streamers like ourselves. A LOT more. Furthermore, ESPN leveraging their gigantic viewership and powerful advertising and self-promotion infrastructure on a game we all love is nothing but a good thing. We all know how addicting this game is to watch and we all know or know of dozens of people who have played little more than 5 games in bronze yet set their alarms to 2:10 AM to watch tastosis cover the GSL. It is naive to think that this addictive game isn't going to gain a pretty significant bump with exposure to MILLIONS of new sets of eyes.

Logistically, SC2 tourneys are not ideal for programming and SC2 games are not ideal for commerical timings. Concessions can be made though, from both sides. Initially this is almost certainly going to be a late night time slot, therefore not live considering MLG is the tournament being discussed. I know we all prefer our sc2 as live as can be, but remember that this isn't necessarily targeted at you specifically, but targeted at your classmate who doesn't know he likes SC2 yet(although you bet your ass you will end up tuning in as well). An edited 2-3 hour program could cover the late bracket stages of an MLG with minimal downtime between games. TV likes its commercials short and frequent, but sports on TV are given flexibility in this regard. Soccer is a nightmare for commercials but is shown on TV. Keep in mind that most SC2 games average around 15 minutes or shorter. The format would probably look quite a bit like it does for baseball.

(3 hour MLG final day condensed):

Intro/casters/bracket rundown
Commercial
Game 1
Commercial after each game
Double commercial after each match, with commentary and bracket stuff filled in

Pretty doable to be honest. Any nightmare 45 minute+ games would be an issue, but these are quite rare and a quick commercial could even be added in if the coverage was not live. Live coverage would be a good deal more difficult logistically, but realistically the overall popularity would be so high at that point that they could work things out without much legitimate whining from the community.

In closing, this would be an amazing opportunity for SC2 to grow and best of luck to Sundance and his staff.


This post deserves more credit then it's getting, imo. Very informative, and makes alotta good points.

Personally, I hope it works out, but I also worry about how people will react to it. It really could go either way once it's on TV.. but we have to try none the less and see what happens. This could be SC2's big chance!
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
October 01 2011 12:18 GMT
#607
206 people voted no?
Seriously?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Sighstorm
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands116 Posts
October 01 2011 12:20 GMT
#608
On October 01 2011 19:56 jazzminkey wrote:
5% of the people ITT are killing e-sports.

No, 5% is legitimatly concerned it will be killed for them. In my experience ESPN doesn't care about online communities or my country... I'm afraid their executives care too much about exclusive right and stuff and don't care about the current viewership of MLG.

If all content remains available online (through legal channels), i'm completely supportive, but history is not at our side.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
October 01 2011 12:21 GMT
#609
On October 01 2011 21:16 Treble557 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2011 19:34 j0ker wrote:
You have to take a step back and look at this objectively. This isn't a new league or tournament that is relying on TV viewership to sustain itself. This is MLG, currently a staple of foreign sc2 and a very successful, sustainable business model that is potentially offering programming to Espn. The only risk here is that Espn wouldn't bother itself with SC2 again, which would be fine if this turned out to be unsuccessful.

Loving the armchair TV execs discussing programming length and commercial timing. Lets be realistic, this isn't going to get a primetime slot. Espn2 has a long history of covering niche "sports", and even has a history with Mlg. They also have a history of poker, which EXPLODED in popularity and spread like wildfire across the television medium and all over the internet. Poker coverage started on espn(2) as niche programming to fill in slots that were taken up by the 80th rerun of sportscenter.

From espn's perspective, they are looking at a game/"esport" that is currently experiencing pretty incredible growth in the U.S.(and to a slightly lesser extent in Europe), and has a decade-long history of extreme popularity in South Korea. They are also very reminiscent of the explosion of poker, of which they were a very big helping hand. They see this as an opportunity to grab Starcraft 2 first, and to nurture it and help it explode like they did with poker.

From the perspective of a Starcraft 2 fan, this has to be viewed as nothing other than a huge opportunity. I think we all agree that SC2 doesn't NEED to be shown on TV, the internet is the ideal medium and currently works best. But one has to realize that, despite programming becoming more and more popular online, there are ALWAYS going to be people that want to lay down on their couch and flip channels. And there are a lot more of those people than internet streamers like ourselves. A LOT more. Furthermore, ESPN leveraging their gigantic viewership and powerful advertising and self-promotion infrastructure on a game we all love is nothing but a good thing. We all know how addicting this game is to watch and we all know or know of dozens of people who have played little more than 5 games in bronze yet set their alarms to 2:10 AM to watch tastosis cover the GSL. It is naive to think that this addictive game isn't going to gain a pretty significant bump with exposure to MILLIONS of new sets of eyes.

Logistically, SC2 tourneys are not ideal for programming and SC2 games are not ideal for commerical timings. Concessions can be made though, from both sides. Initially this is almost certainly going to be a late night time slot, therefore not live considering MLG is the tournament being discussed. I know we all prefer our sc2 as live as can be, but remember that this isn't necessarily targeted at you specifically, but targeted at your classmate who doesn't know he likes SC2 yet(although you bet your ass you will end up tuning in as well). An edited 2-3 hour program could cover the late bracket stages of an MLG with minimal downtime between games. TV likes its commercials short and frequent, but sports on TV are given flexibility in this regard. Soccer is a nightmare for commercials but is shown on TV. Keep in mind that most SC2 games average around 15 minutes or shorter. The format would probably look quite a bit like it does for baseball.

(3 hour MLG final day condensed):

Intro/casters/bracket rundown
Commercial
Game 1
Commercial after each game
Double commercial after each match, with commentary and bracket stuff filled in

Pretty doable to be honest. Any nightmare 45 minute+ games would be an issue, but these are quite rare and a quick commercial could even be added in if the coverage was not live. Live coverage would be a good deal more difficult logistically, but realistically the overall popularity would be so high at that point that they could work things out without much legitimate whining from the community.

In closing, this would be an amazing opportunity for SC2 to grow and best of luck to Sundance and his staff.


This post deserves more credit then it's getting, imo. Very informative, and makes alotta good points.

Personally, I hope it works out, but I also worry about how people will react to it. It really could go either way once it's on TV.. but we have to try none the less and see what happens. This could be SC2's big chance!

He made that post 9 minutes before you... of course he hasn't been recognized by his peers for it. ^^
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
October 01 2011 12:21 GMT
#610
On October 01 2011 21:06 feanor1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2011 20:16 crappen wrote:
On October 01 2011 19:01 Joey Wheeler wrote:
On October 01 2011 18:38 crappen wrote:
On October 01 2011 17:37 Zooper31 wrote:
On October 01 2011 17:36 IveReturned wrote:
Do you pay to watch ESPN 2?


You pay for cable so yes technically you do.

To all the people saying TV is an outdated platform. I just lol in your face and walk away. Maybe to a 20yr old atm TV is outdated compared to all the technology we have now but thats not the point in this thread. The point is that bringing it to TV, and the biggest sports channel in argueably the world, would bring so much mainstream attention to SC2 that we desperately need.

Who cares if TV is gonna be phased out in 10-20yrs. We are talking about now, not some hipster future...


Just curious, but do SC2 desperately need more mainstream attention? Why?


bigger is better
progamers get more money
streams get more viewers
blizzard takes more of an interest in their game

I mean honestly, how would it being mainstream not be a good thing? I guess you think Brood War was "too mainstream"?


And I also lol at the retards complaining about how TV is outdated. It's still the #1 media outlet. Are you saying that the fact Brood War was on 2 channels in Korea didn't help its popularity? Some people just can't think for themselves...


Not sure why you are believe that bigger is better. Would classical music suddenly become better if it pops up at the mainstream radio? I dont think having a shitty channel with commercials all the time would do us viewers any good.

Do you really think popularity is always a good thing? Blizzard is taking a good amount of interest in their game already, dont get greedy. Just throwing money at SC2 won't just magically make everything for the better.

I dont see WoW with its huge population doing so much better then SC2 in terms of quality, do you? Cause I sure as hell dont. Or how about CoD?

If you SC2 t survive as a "sport" where people make a living playing it Bigger is without a doubt better.
No if Classical music was just on the mainstream radio it wouldn't magically become better. But it would make it a topic of conversation, boost sales, expose more people to classical music and get kids interested in studying it.


Classical music already has kids studying it, it does make a conversation, it does everything it needs to for it to survive. Classical isn't as popular as Justin Bieber, but it does not need to be, for it to survive and create an awesome community and events. Classical music has its own production, its own community. We dont need Justin Bieber amount of fans for something to succeed, for people to make a living for it.

I am not saying we should not get new people into SC2, and give up and stagnate. I'm just saying that bigger is not always better, and that what we have now, is really really great. We have one hell of a community, it can grow a little each year with both Blizzards help with expansions and promotion, but also promotion of tournaments, and reqruiting of our friends. Not everyone likes SC2, and as seen in countless threads on these forums, many people are deadly afraid of playing SC2.

I think, SC2 is not for everyone, its not a mainstream activity. Chess is hard, SC2 is hard, both these games needs hard work, emotions in check, patience and willpower to win. MMO's, FPS games like CoD, single player game events do not.

A last note
I do think its a good idea to spread SC2 and reach new players and individuals like us. Maybe 0.1% of those who would watch ESPN would give SC2 a try. I really liked the idea of only showing highlights of rivals, interviews, and then a great match. Nothing more really.
Indez
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia37 Posts
October 01 2011 12:28 GMT
#611
would if i could!
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 12:55:47
October 01 2011 12:48 GMT
#612
On October 01 2011 19:34 j0ker wrote:
This is MLG, currently a staple of foreign sc2 and a very successful, sustainable business model that is potentially offering programming to Espn.

This really hasn't proven to be true at all. A year ago MLG was deep in the red and while 2011 was great for them, we don't know how much it's improved (consider that they've contracted the event number.) MLG is less of a staple than all the major organizations that have fallen before it. It's not an unequivocal situation, there are definitely major setbacks that could occur. If you don't keep that and the history of ESPORTS in mind, then you're setting yourself up for the fall. Be positive about the (potential) news, but don't be ignorant.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
j0ker
Profile Joined August 2011
275 Posts
October 01 2011 12:56 GMT
#613
On October 01 2011 21:48 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2011 19:34 j0ker wrote:
This is MLG, currently a staple of foreign sc2 and a very successful, sustainable business model that is potentially offering programming to Espn.

This really hasn't proven to be true at all. A year ago MLG was deep in the red and while 2011 was great for them, we don't know how much it's improved (consider that they've contracted the event number.) MLG is less of a staple than all the major organizations that have fallen before it. It's not an unequivocal situation, there are definitely major setbacks that could occur. If you don't keep that and the history of ESPORTS in mind, then you're setting yourself up for the fall. Be positive about the (potential) news, don't be ignorant.


thats kind of beside my point. Their SC2 play is currently sustainable through live admission and streams. Offering rights to ESPN to do some sort of supplementary television coverage would not be a risk in that they would be completely fine if it remained online.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 13:01:01
October 01 2011 12:59 GMT
#614
Any time a company ventures into new territory and fails, it's a major setback. And I don't think we're at the point where ESPN starts bidding for broadcast rights. Probably the other way around. Obviously they should try it, but it's not "no big deal" if it doesn't work.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
October 01 2011 13:04 GMT
#615
How are you supposed to plan the games? What if a bo3 lasts 3 hours but you want to show 3 bo3s in one broadcoast session?
Awesomeness
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1361 Posts
October 01 2011 13:10 GMT
#616
A bo5 tennis-match can last between 2 and 5+ hours and they still show tennis on TV...I don't think it's a huge issue as long as there are enough people watching.
xlord 5:0
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
October 01 2011 13:11 GMT
#617
There's already more than enough Starcraft 2 for me, not to mention there's streams out the wazoo.
Cpadolf
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden1199 Posts
October 01 2011 13:13 GMT
#618
On October 01 2011 21:18 TehTemplar wrote:
206 people voted no?
Seriously?


The only reason I'd watch it on ESPN (if I had ESPN to begin with), would be for the sake of supporting E-sports. I don't actually want to watch Starcraft on TV. I don't really want to watch anything on TV, and haven't done so (at home) in over a year. The internet is starting to make TV more and more irrelevant.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
October 01 2011 13:16 GMT
#619
commercials mid game. no thanks.
Diks
Profile Joined January 2010
Belgium1880 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 13:17:34
October 01 2011 13:17 GMT
#620
On October 01 2011 22:10 Awesomeness wrote:
A bo5 tennis-match can last between 2 and 5+ hours and they still show tennis on TV...I don't think it's a huge issue as long as there are enough people watching.


Yeah, as long as SC2 is as popular as Tennis, this is not a problem...
.... Oh wait, it's actually a problem
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