Foreign Exchange program invites are HongUn.Prime and ST.July, along with SlayerSBoxeR and ST.Bomber. Other koreans in pool play are MC, DRG, Rain and Puma.
As we previously announced, MLG Raleigh Champion Bomber and the legendary Boxer will be the first two GSL invites for this Event. We're incredibly happy to announce that the final two Korean pros who will be attending as part of the League Exchange Program are none other than StartaleJuly and HongUn.Prime. July has attended before, but he came on his own and played through the Open Bracket. This time he'll be seeded into the Pools. This will be HongUn's first Pro Circuit Event; please join us in welcoming him!
HongUn won't be the only Korean Protoss playing through the Pools, however. In news which we're sure will excite you as much as it does us, we've confirmed that MC will be returning to the Pro Circuit. He is not attending as part of the League Exchange, but he has enough Rank Points to go right into the Pools.
Here is the full SC2 roster. (You may notice that some Pro Circuit mainstays are not on the list; in cases where players were not able to attend because of scheduling conflicts, the next highest seed has been moved into their place.)
The Roster
And now for the Pools. It should be immediately apparent that the letter D most certainly stands for "death." The lineups and race balances in all the Pools are going to make for some superb gameplay, but Pool D, well… it might actually be less intense if these five players just beat each other with hammers until only one was left standing. Looking at these Pools is a bit frustrating, because Orlando is a month away, and we want it to be now.
Worst MLG ever. Seriously without Naniwa, Sjow and Select foreigners have no chance. The only European on that list except for the liquid guys is Socke T__T gg wp Koreans...
Wow group D is insane! I can't predict that group cause it's a group of death. Nice to see hongun prime going! MKP will have a teammate with him! Plus I like hongun. He gets a bad rap, but always makes it far!
It's disappointing to see Dignitas not send anyone but kind of understandable considering their spot for Providence is pretty secure. I would've preferred a different Korean Protoss, but at least they're not sending 3-4 Terrans again.
On September 17 2011 06:56 Samejima wrote: Group A is way too weak compare to the other 3
lol @ Ares closing this by mistake, don't worry even mods make mistakes
And yea sorry to say about TL, but seriously it's one hella easy group compared to the other 3.
On September 17 2011 06:58 dAPhREAk wrote: idra has an ez pz group. he is going to take it (and get revenge on boxer post bfh nerf). =) i have faith in him.
No, don't underestimate Boxer. Just like last time, although he may not perform as well as before, he will do amazing.
is this final? i heard that slayers are sending players for orlando but it seems like only boxer is going? mma def has the seed to be in the pool if he chooses to go which means they decide against sending them to mlg?
Weird that what seems to be one of the easiest group is with SlayersBoXer and idra =o Well actually group c might be the easiest. But group D Is only Death =P
On September 17 2011 06:59 TicketoHELL wrote: is this final? i heard that slayers are sending players for orlando but it seems like only boxer is going? mma def has the seed to be in the pool if he chooses to go which means they decide against sending them to mlg?
Could possible be because a lot of players have their spot secured for MLG Providence (which has a much higher prize pool and is the 'finals' essentially) and the Orlando prize pool is only 5000$, so anything but winning it will barely/not completely cover travel costs (considering it costs Milkis about 3500$ to get MKP to Orlando)
Obviously, the Open Bracket players aren't announced yet so any number of koreans could be coming in through that.
I also pray for some kind of dignitas permanent presence in Korea - if all 3 of them are skipping out on this MLG it could be a sign! (only speculation though).
On September 17 2011 06:54 k!llua wrote: Poor socke?
More like poor iNcontroL. He's going to get romped, again.
If he can't hack it then he doesn't deserve a pool spot, is the harsh truth. But as a fan I am given hope by his recent series against Sheth where he showed pretty good play.
And Socke still has it worse. Going 1-4 in that group is still an achievement. Best of luck to him I hope he smashes it.
P.S. 8/20 pool players are Korean, I am slightly sadfaced.
Damn group D looks awful! I guess thats what can happen with a rank point system with relatively inconsistant player appearences. Still thats no ones fault, it just makes for a pretty hillarious and awsome set of day 1 matches! Im just hoping the IEM korea invites arnt as strong as this or it will be one depressing weekend of foreign starcraft!
I feel like ret and idra got a good shot in their groups. Tho so sad to see a potential 0-4 incomming for incontrol, unbeatable ppl for him (maybe seth slight chance). Gogo incontrol! youve trained hard please show us
Feel bad for incontrol. Been working hard, and now he is in a group he may not be able to take a game out of. I almost wish he was playing through open so he could win some.
Boxer / MC / DRG is so stacked. Can't wait to see these guys in persno
i certainly could see idra winning his group and going to winners semi-finals. Also MKP is going in Open so may as well assume he will be in the pool play eventually lol
Jesus group A is going to come down to Boxer/Idra (probably boxer winning it).
Group B most likely bomber but possibly Puma.
Group C really could go to either ret/rain/hongun so tough to call.
Group D is just ridiculous jesus christ rofl I couldn't pick just 1 person out of there because any one of them have a really good chance at being the winner. I mean probably not socke (I haven't seen him play lately so I don't know how in shape he is atm). But wow insane group lol.
Man, I was hoping that Slayers_Ganzi and Slayers_Coca would enter. They need some pool points in order to be seeded at Providence. MMA is locked and Boxer should get some points here to make it, but Ganzi and Coca needed a boost.
On September 17 2011 07:03 common_cider wrote: Does anyone know for sure why Diginitas is not attending?
MLG gives teams a ton of exposure even if the prize pool is low. At least after this MLG, prize pools will get jacked ^^ Providence and 2012 SC2 $$$
Naniwa, SjoW and Select will be in Korea.
Yeah good point, they probably want to focus on their practice a bit. They probably want to focus on the long term and not have their players travel too much.
olol poor Socke. I like him a lot and he is great player, but that pool D... that's just madness. Ofc, when I look at it it's quite obvious that MKP will for sure end in pool D when (notice the absence of "if") he advance from open bracket.
WTF group D. That's harder than most GSL groups. Best foreign protoss #2 or #3 korean zerg socke, arguably #2 european protoss MC #1 protoss July #1 baller
On September 17 2011 07:03 common_cider wrote: Does anyone know for sure why Diginitas is not attending?
MLG gives teams a ton of exposure even if the prize pool is low. At least after this MLG, prize pools will get jacked ^^ Providence and 2012 SC2 $$$
Naniwa, SjoW and Select will be in Korea.
Yeah good point, they probably want to focus on their practice a bit. They probably want to focus on the long term and not have their players travel too much.
not really, Naniwa and SeleCT will probably be in Korea (practicing for Blizzcon) but Sjow will attend IEM New York which takes place at the same weekend (which is fucking stupid).
My (very very foreign biased) predictions (ignoring potential open bracket players, which can, of course, dramatically swing how this works out)
Pool A: IdrA or BoxeR depending on which BoxeR shows up Pool B: Winner of Puma v Bomber, which I'd expect to be Puma because he'll likely arrive earlier and won't have to deal with jetlag Pool C: Ret, HongUn is a total wildcard, but is very beatable, and I think Rain's not showing his best play recently (lot can change in a month though) Pool D: Anyone's game (but Socke's, poor guy)
OMG MLG Orlando is going to be crazy. So many good players in pool and pool D is insane. Can't wait and MKP going as well is like the icing on the cake =D
im a little unhappy about hongun prime being invited. there are so many other good protoss players that could have been invited, Puzzle and Yonghwa to name a few. still the terran line up is top noch and thats what i care the most about. you better release the replays MLG for this one and the ones before or ur gonna have the community rage to answer to.
On September 17 2011 07:08 thealexw87 wrote: i certainly could see idra winning his group and going to winners semi-finals. Also MKP is going in Open so may as well assume he will be in the pool play eventually lol
Lowest open bracket seed goes to Group D... and MarineKing doesn't have any MLG Circuit points...
He needs to hope that there are other Koreans making a first-time appearance that randomly have lower seeds.
D for death is all I can say about this... Pools C and D seem most interesting after D, and IdrA can just roll his face on the keyboard and steamroll through his group unless something happens.
It's held before the up-downs but after Code A Ro16, so MC will likely be 'in' the up-downs by that point. Would he have to play out the up-downs or just be guaranteed Code S? If guaranteed, wouldn't that be unfair to someone like Puma if they were also in the top 3 and MC gets it but would have got it from up-down anyway?
On September 17 2011 07:11 GuiltyJerk wrote: My (very very foreign biased) predictions (ignoring potential open bracket players, which can, of course, dramatically swing how this works out)
Pool A: IdrA or BoxeR depending on which BoxeR shows up Pool B: Winner of Puma v Bomber, which I'd expect to be Puma because he'll likely arrive earlier and won't have to deal with jetlag Pool C: Ret, HongUn is a total wildcard, but is very beatable, and I think Rain's not showing his best play recently (lot can change in a month though) Pool D: Anyone's game (but Socke's, poor guy)
Thats not very biased at all =). I think most people would agree with you.
On September 17 2011 07:13 Soleron wrote: Let's say MC gets in the top three.
DOES MC GET CODE S THEN?
It's held before the up-downs but after Code A Ro16, so MC will likely be 'in' the up-downs by that point. Would he have to play out the up-downs or just be guaranteed Code S? If guaranteed, wouldn't that be unfair to someone like Puma if they were also in the top 3 and MC gets it but would have got it from up-down anyway?
Seems like 1st seed (Idra) can get a pool that highly favors him, no protoss ? when there's 3 in group D ? only 1 korean ? when all but one of group D are "koreans" ?
c'mon don't tell me you think this is good, we could have had 2-3 koreans per pool and at least one of each race... seed system is broken imho, previous MLG were total awesomeness but this one doesnt get me excited at all....
Holy crap, I looked at A and was like "yeah that's a really really tough one", then looked at B and was like, "shit thats group of death", then saw C as was like "Who the heck is gonna win that one?". Then saw D and was like"SHIT, thats mega-ultra group of death." So in summary, dis tourney be stacked yo!
On September 17 2011 07:16 Ym!r wrote: Honestly it's a poor move from MLG...
Seems like 1st seed (Idra) can get a pool that highly favors him, no protoss ? when there's 3 in group D ? only 1 korean ? when all but one of group D are "koreans" ?
c'mon don't tell me you think this is good, we could have had 2-3 koreans per pool and at least one of each race... seed system is broken imho, previous MLG were total awesomeness but this one doesnt get me excited at all....
You're crazy, how can anyone not be excited by Group D? Nobody is out after pools, if a player is good enough they can get far even if they come last in their group...
On September 17 2011 07:16 Ym!r wrote: Honestly it's a poor move from MLG...
Seems like 1st seed (Idra) can get a pool that highly favors him, no protoss ? when there's 3 in group D ? only 1 korean ? when all but one of group D are "koreans" ?
c'mon don't tell me you think this is good, we could have had 2-3 koreans per pool and at least one of each race... seed system is broken imho, previous MLG were total awesomeness but this one doesnt get me excited at all....
The seeding system has been the same throughout all the MLGs. Tweaking the groups just to please the audience rather than rewarding consistent performers would be incredibly stupid. Also, even if you are seeded high, you can end up with a tough group, stars just happened to align this time.
On September 17 2011 07:16 Ym!r wrote: Honestly it's a poor move from MLG...
Seems like 1st seed (Idra) can get a pool that highly favors him, no protoss ? when there's 3 in group D ? only 1 korean ? when all but one of group D are "koreans" ?
c'mon don't tell me you think this is good, we could have had 2-3 koreans per pool and at least one of each race... seed system is broken imho, previous MLG were total awesomeness but this one doesnt get me excited at all....
Boo-hoo.
Awesome groups, bring back the real gracken @Orlando please!
On September 17 2011 07:13 Soleron wrote: Let's say MC gets in the top three.
DOES MC GET CODE S THEN?
It's held before the up-downs but after Code A Ro16, so MC will likely be 'in' the up-downs by that point. Would he have to play out the up-downs or just be guaranteed Code S? If guaranteed, wouldn't that be unfair to someone like Puma if they were also in the top 3 and MC gets it but would have got it from up-down anyway?
yes, koreans can get the code S spot
You didn't read. What if he's got a place in the up and down matches going into Orlando? If he's given a spot direct there's a chance he could have just got in through the up-down matches in the next few days and hence denying the Code S spot to potential lower MLG finishes.
On September 17 2011 07:16 Ym!r wrote: Honestly it's a poor move from MLG...
Seems like 1st seed (Idra) can get a pool that highly favors him, no protoss ? when there's 3 in group D ? only 1 korean ? when all but one of group D are "koreans" ?
c'mon don't tell me you think this is good, we could have had 2-3 koreans per pool and at least one of each race... seed system is broken imho, previous MLG were total awesomeness but this one doesnt get me excited at all....
What races are in which pool arent decided by MLG but by rank points. The reason this is shocking is because the Koreans took there invites(specifically MC wanting to get back into code S) which actually makes this player pool insane.
On September 17 2011 07:16 Ym!r wrote: Honestly it's a poor move from MLG...
Seems like 1st seed (Idra) can get a pool that highly favors him, no protoss ? when there's 3 in group D ? only 1 korean ? when all but one of group D are "koreans" ?
c'mon don't tell me you think this is good, we could have had 2-3 koreans per pool and at least one of each race... seed system is broken imho, previous MLG were total awesomeness but this one doesnt get me excited at all....
Boo-hoo.
Awesome groups, bring back the real gracken @Orlando please!
ez without P, let's play without workers next time lulz
On September 17 2011 07:13 Soleron wrote: Let's say MC gets in the top three.
DOES MC GET CODE S THEN?
It's held before the up-downs but after Code A Ro16, so MC will likely be 'in' the up-downs by that point. Would he have to play out the up-downs or just be guaranteed Code S? If guaranteed, wouldn't that be unfair to someone like Puma if they were also in the top 3 and MC gets it but would have got it from up-down anyway?
yes, koreans can get the code S spot
You didn't read. What if he's got a place in the up and down matches going into Orlando? If he's given a spot direct there's a chance he could have just got in through the up-down matches in the next few days and hence denying the Code S spot to potential lower MLG finishes.
They would probably have a round robin between the 9-16th to determine who goes to the up/downs in there place.
MLG system is just so unfair. Pools B and D are just filled with talent (poor Incontrol), pool C is so-so, and poll D puts together players with poor performances (TLO, Haypro are disappointing, Drewbie has shown nothing for months) with a ... surprising? first seed and probably the korean player with the weakest record. .
Group A = decently easy (gonna be 1.BoxeR then 1.IdrA), but hoooooly shit the rest are pretty hard. And then group D. Socke must be having nightmares already.
On September 17 2011 07:28 RealQ wrote: Wow, Machine is is in the Group stage AGAIN, this is getting stupid.
Funny you single out machine when there are players that have done worse. Example: Incontrol. Also, I think TLO and Haypro are on par with machine interms of how deserving they are to be in group play.
Pool D is without question the group of death. Whoever wins that one has a great shot at winning the whole thing. Gotta feel sorry for Socke though, he's a good protoss, but severely the underdog going into that whole thing.
Again and again players who didn't show anything but be a part of the first MLG are in the pools. Yes, i mean incontrol. So many top players missing to see him getting roflstomped by anyone.
Wow. Group D. Just WOW. Both Huk and Socke have HUUUGGGEEE hills to climb. Socke could be the best foreigner PvZ (seriously, it's absurd, he rolls Stephano even, somehow), but is a tier lower than HuK or MC in PvP. And DRG has great ZvZ and ZvP.
My predictions for Group D:
Socke takes down July, but loses unsurprisingly to the other 3. July beats HuK, but loses to Socke, MC, and DRG. HuK beats Socke but loses to MC, July, and DRG. MC beats everyone except DRG. DRG goes undefeated.
Group A has IdrA and Boxer written all over it. Group B is perfect for Puma and Bomber. Group C fits HongUn and Rain nicely.
Wtf, group D is rediculous. That group is going to fuck up the rankings so much since there is bound to be at least 2 of them out of the top 12 which most of them should be able to get into.
Pool A - This group is actually unfair because of how easy it is in comparison to group B and D. IdrA and Boxer for top 2. IdrA must have the biggest grin ever - the other players in the group are mediocre at best.
Pool B - Very tough group. Bomber and Puma for top 2. InControL is unlucky and draws the short straw...will probably go yet another MLG without winning a game.
Pool C - Mid-tier pool. Rain and Ret for top 2. In similar fashion to pool A, the other players are average.
Pool D - Toughest group, hard to call the top 2. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably say DRG and MC..I feel bad for Socke who will come all the way from Germany only to get raped T_T.
Note: the above does not consider the open bracket.
Sigh. Why on earth are players like incontrol and machine still in pool play? They go 0-5 every mlg yet still get seeded into pool play. MLG really needs to fix their system for seeding.
On September 17 2011 07:30 Svenz00r wrote: So when incontrol doesnt win a single game (again) will he finally be gone now or what? Or will will he have a spot for like 78 tournaments more
He's not going anywhere anytime soon as long as a majority of the Koreans, who take the majority of points, don't return...and even by losing every game, Inc still gets points.
Oh man group D is so fucking ridiculous. Either MC or DRG can come out on top. If July can fix his ZvZ then that's his chance. No hope for HuK and Socke, but's they're pretty good on tripping some others
I hope(and think) MLG will change their seeding system to have decay (or more if it has that already). A lot of players are riding on succes from months ago (which is totally different due to there being no MLG/GSL exchange program at that time) and a lot of people are skipping Orlando altogether because they're in the safe zone for MLG providence. A system of (more) decay would help both of those.
hmm my predictions , this mlg looks super stacked, also in my opinion hongun is 10 x the player nani is, hongun is way better than nani, maybe not in pvp, but most definately against t and z, so this is no loss. anyway my predictions
for Pool A
1st Boxer 2nd Idra ( idra against Koreans is always a Korean win , it doesn't matter against who or what race the Korean plays)
For Pool B 1st Bomber 2nd Puma (these 2 can go either way, but i'd give the edge to bomber, if he brings his a-game hes very beastly. The only person that might be able to cause an upset is Kiwi, but i doubt this? for sheth i predict a 1-4 showing. for incontrol i predict all looses across the board like every other mlg since koreans arrived, I hope he finally gets kicked out of pool play this time, because games with incontrol in them are rather uneventful, nobody wants to see them because we all know whats going to happen, incontrol gets his ass handed to him and we hear some brand new excuse, Time to hit the open bracket buddy.
for Pool C I expect 1st) Hongun 2nd ) very hard to call , but most likely Ret , if not ret then forsure rain.
machine is just like incontrol, its about time they start playing from the open bracket.
For Pool D , this is the group of death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my word
1st ) MC, somehow i think mc is going to get revitalized when he sees all his fans and is going to play alot better, much like boxer he is going to perform better than his normal. so i predict mc first even though hes in a slump right now. Hopefully he carries this momentum to the gsl.
2nd) DRG.. The guy is a beast, i just dont see how hes going to loose, the only reason i say 2nd however is because the only matchup i feel the dong isnt that great in is vrs protoss, and with so many protoss in this group i really do think he will drop a series, whereas MC is a god of pvp, so i hope this explains why i think MC first DRG second.
I hope the rest of group d can perform well in the loosers bracket, i would really love to see july get some distance.
On September 17 2011 07:31 Netsky wrote: Pool A - This group is actually unfair because of how easy it is in comparison to group B and D. IdrA and Boxer for top 2. IdrA must have the biggest grin ever - the other players in the group are mediocre at best.
Pool B - Very tough group. Bomber and Puma for top 2. InControL is unlucky and draws the short straw...will probably go yet another MLG without winning a game.
Pool C - Mid-tier pool. Rain and Ret for top 2. In similar fashion to pool A, the other players are average.
Pool D - Toughest group, hard to call the top 2. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably say DRG and MC..I feel bad for Socke who will come all the way from Germany only to get raped T_T.
Note: the above does not consider the open bracket.
well you just confirmed how underrated slush is o_o
On September 17 2011 07:31 Netsky wrote: Pool A - This group is actually unfair because of how easy it is in comparison to group B and D. IdrA and Boxer for top 2. IdrA must have the biggest grin ever - the other players in the group are mediocre at best.
I see it this way too, but Idra is 0-2 to Boxer (lost Bo3s in both NASL and MLG), so he better not overlook Boxer. Who's also got a style and potential for trickery/cheese that drives Idra crazy. So who knows who'll come out on top.
you make the best point, the pools were obviously hand picked to create match ups that are not fair at all. why does pool d have all the korean invites when traditionally they were spread out???
Eg and tl avoid almost any team killing (1 per team). It will be nice to see if either of these teams can do well in groups now thats its not just team-kills non stop.
I think we'll have a better idea about group D after we see MC's PvZ in AOL and code A. DRG isn't that good in ZvP so if MC finds his groove he'll win.
FUCK. YES! MC IS BACK BABY!!! Columbus was by far my favorite MLG just because of his presence. God I'm so friggin hyped!!! MCC MY PRESIDENT! WIN BACK YOUR CODE S (if you don't do it in code A, but i'm not too worried)
why does idra keep getting easy groups? nasl now mlg....sponsors are really pulling some strings eh? and poolA is clearly a method to not have top 4 Korean as all groups have 2+ koreans and group 1 only has one, and boxer is code b rank. also why is idra rank one in mlg? this is insane.....
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
The seeds are what decides the pools. The pools have been populated the same way since we started the LXP.
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
The seeds are what decides the pools. The pools have been populated the same way since we started the LXP.
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
just like they did with DRG hehe.
could be that no one gets a code S spot from this mlg as top 3 could easily by people with code S already
You probably have to consider that the Exchange players are not seeded the same way because they want to put them in each group.
Thats likely, thx for clarification. So Bomber and Boxer were seeded to bottom of group B and A, but moved up, because they already had points? Lucky for TL and bad luck for iNcontroL ...
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
its not like winning the group gets u code S plus i think group A winner play against group D winner in the winners bracket so... pretty hard for BoxeR to get code S even more so since theres MC no longer in code S
MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
what the hell are you talking about, they're just making the pools according to previous results, the points people gain from previous MLGs...
Another korean top 6 is pretty much guaranteed considering these! I can really just see Idra sneaking in if he doesn't go on tilt and had the time to figure out how to beat Boxer! Or maybe Ret if he's on fire... but groups B and D are going to koreans, no questions asked.
On September 17 2011 07:45 Clbull wrote: So DeMusliM got a really high ranking for somebody in the open bracket last MLG. Why the fuck isn't he in the pools?
Because he is not in the top 16 of players attending Orlando.
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
The seeds are what decides the pools. The pools have been populated the same way since we started the LXP.
No there's a mistake with the 8th and 9th seeds being the wrong way round in the pools.
It's because Boxer/Bomber/Hongun/July are seeded into pools separately because they are part of the Exchange Program.
You probably have to consider that the Exchange players are not seeded the same way because they want to put them in each group.
Thats likely, thx for clarification. So Bomber and Boxer were seeded to bottom of group B and A, but moved up, because they already had points? Lucky for TL and bad luck for iNcontroL ...
Even if thats the reasoning behind it it seems a very odd system. If a player is being invited they shouldnt really have their rank points considered at all because its a completely different means of entry. And its obvious been unfair to the other players who have had their groups shuffled around to accomodate
Edit: Thats actually what theyve done and its perfect, makes total sense. I got my "Who is an invite" mixed up ,too many pesky koreans
On September 17 2011 07:45 Clbull wrote: So DeMusliM got a really high ranking for somebody in the open bracket last MLG. Why the fuck isn't he in the pools?
cause MLG's points system is terribad... I just hope he manages to fight his way back at least to have some matches casted.
Incontroll is so boned. So boned. Idk... maybe he said one too many sharp things to sundance.
Puma I think he can take but it'll be tough. Bomber... Sheth mnn maybe? Kiwi Maybe? I mean this in the best way, but Incontrol is the only one in the group who hasn't won a major tournament. Qualifies for Darkhorse treatment?
Kinda sad no one could spare a Toss for Idra.
Group D well if only we could trade socke for rain we'd have a nice diverse groupadoom.
Might be a sick event. Here's to hoping either a DRG/July madrun or the patch coming out before the event to spare us the usual composition in the top 3.
On September 17 2011 07:45 Clbull wrote: So DeMusliM got a really high ranking for somebody in the open bracket last MLG. Why the fuck isn't he in the pool?
But he didnt get very many if any points the last 4 events so why would he be in pools
On September 17 2011 07:45 Clbull wrote: So DeMusliM got a really high ranking for somebody in the open bracket last MLG. Why the fuck isn't he in the pool?
b/c he is 37th in points. they went down to 28th with drewbie.
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
The seeds are what decides the pools. The pools have been populated the same way since we started the LXP.
No there's a mistake with the 8th and 9th seeds being the wrong way round in the pools.
It's because Boxer/Bomber/Hongun/July are seeded into pools separately because they are part of the Exchange Program.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Wow I cant believe number of ignorant people who decide they should post in a MLG thread and criticize their system when they refuse to do their own research and actually learn about the system first.
Theyve had the same system practically this entire year. The seeding is based on points, its not random nor is it a popularity thing. Spend some time on liquidpedia or something and learn about how MLGs are ran before you make blind criticisms.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
On September 17 2011 07:45 Clbull wrote: So DeMusliM got a really high ranking for somebody in the open bracket last MLG. Why the fuck isn't he in the pools?
Because he is not in the top 16 of players attending Orlando.
omg mlg is so stacked at this point- pool D anyone?? plus MKP is gonna be there plus Hero probably ( i dont think they announced if he is going to be or not) So many koreans- MLG needs to raise their prize pool!! holy shit!! Cannot wait for epicness
You probably have to consider that the Exchange players are not seeded the same way because they want to put them in each group.
Thats likely, thx for clarification. So Bomber and Boxer were seeded to bottom of group B and A, but moved up, because they already had points? Lucky for TL and bad luck for iNcontroL ...
Even if thats the reasoning behind it it seems a very odd system. If a player is being invited they shouldnt really have their rank points considered at all because its a completely different means of entry. And its obvious been unfair to the other players who have had their groups shuffled around to accomodate
They aren't considered. If you take out Boxer/Bomber from the rankings, then the seeds fall exactly into place like it's supposed to. They just sorted the groups by points after the fact.
MC looks like he is gonna get his free ticket back to Code S, which is obviously good. Really want MC to win MLG, because players who win MLG often go on to do well in GSL (MMA reached final, MVP won GSL, Bomber is probably gonna do well too...).
On September 17 2011 07:48 seiplo wrote: jesus christ i wouldnt even bother if i were in group D, only 2 can make it out of each group right?
1 person makes it out of each group to compete in the semi finals. The rest are moved to the lower bracket with the 2nd place person from the group only needing to play one best of 3 before they can play the loser of the semi finals.
You probably have to consider that the Exchange players are not seeded the same way because they want to put them in each group.
Thats likely, thx for clarification. So Bomber and Boxer were seeded to bottom of group B and A, but moved up, because they already had points? Lucky for TL and bad luck for iNcontroL ...
Even if thats the reasoning behind it it seems a very odd system. If a player is being invited they shouldnt really have their rank points considered at all because its a completely different means of entry. And its obvious been unfair to the other players who have had their groups shuffled around to accomodate
They aren't considered. If you take out Boxer/Bomber from the rankings, then the seeds fall exactly into place like it's supposed to. They just sorted the groups by points after the fact.
Yeah i was in the process of double checking, i was editing as u posted. Too many koreans to keep track of who is an invite in my head haha
On September 17 2011 07:49 Micket wrote: MC looks like he is gonna get his free ticket back to Code S, which is obviously good. Really want MC to win MLG, because players who win MLG often go on to do well in GSL (MMA reached final, MVP won GSL, Bomber is probably gonna do well too...).
Well, MMA got knocked out of Code A immediately after winning MLG, and MC has already proven he is a top player.
Ouch shit ton of koreans in the pools and hardly any of the top foreigners are coming. Going to be the most korean dominated MLG yet. But there is still some good news.....
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
It's the same kind of rigidity NASL showed last season when they used the wrong map, and forced everyone to play out a bad map for 2 weeks. Adherence to rules and regulations should only go so far. As an admin, it's your call to make if you want to adjust. If you're uncomfortable with it, you could even ask every pool participant if they would mind. I guarantee you'll get 100% yes, for reforming the system mid-season.
All the Groups look pretty nice though! I feel like there are some underrated players in there that might make things seem uneven, but I feel like everyone there is quite a performer
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
Theres actually a huge downside. Taking a few moments to think about them and they become pretty clear. For example, how does that reflect on the integrity of MLG and how they treat their players? It would be completely unfair to those who have competed in MLGs thus far. Im not just thinking about Incontrol, but TLO, Haypro, Machine, technically I think theyre all deserve to be axed out but the system is already set. Providence marks the end of the first season, so I think its only appropriate and fair that they play out this system since its almost over anyways.
It would also be a huge risk to revamp the system because they simply wont know if it will be better or worse. What happens if it turns out to be worse? When the MLG system first came out last year everyone was happy with it (maybe because they didnt fully understand it) but with time, we discover that its unfair and in need or revamping. Thats fine, but theres no need to rush. So far, all the top 8 players from MLG have been fair and deserving so I dont have any issue with riding this one out until next season.
On September 17 2011 07:55 Probe1 wrote: Another MLG win for Bomber. Pool play will be fun though.
MC vs bomber finals would be sick imo, terran favored metagame and what most people consider imbalance(;D) hopefully wouldn't ruin the series. Their all time record is really close too.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well. If a string of bad hits/injuries happen, they will send out a new directive to refs to tighten up games, and will warn players and increase infraction penalties.
I'm one of the biggest Socke fans but man he's screwed Oo
I mean A has Boxer and IdrA competing at the top, group B(omber) also has Puma and the unlucky Kiwikaki facing those two guys in PvT, Group C(ould) be full of upsets with somebody like Ret... I'm so excited, lol. The "Group of D" will be the real blast though, can't imagine that not being close and exciting. Man, if my holidays hadn't just started, I'd wish for time speeding up :D
I'm really starting to feel for iNcontroL, he's really getting the short end of the stick often lol.
It's scary that just from the past three MLGs, 8 koreans get in the top 20 spots. Makes me wonder that if the prize pool was larger, there were a lot more koreans than foreigners in pool play-
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
If you look back at the NBA example, it was a player health issue. The ball was opening abrasions on the player's hands, causing health, injury, and sanitary concerns.
I'm sure there are examples, but most of those examples revolve around degradation of the core competition. If game play was being effected, something that affected outcomes, then it would need to be addressed. However, this is a seeding and qualification concern, and it would not be fair to the players that have competed all season in this structure.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
It's the same kind of rigidity NASL showed last season when they used the wrong map, and forced everyone to play out a bad map for 2 weeks. Adherence to rules and regulations should only go so far. As an admin, it's your call to make if you want to adjust. If you're uncomfortable with it, you could even ask every pool participant if they would mind. I guarantee you'll get 100% yes, for reforming the system mid-season.
I actually think it would be really unfair to the players that would lose their seed for Nationals (a 120k prize pool) if mlg decided to randomly change the way their points worked. The system is set out for the whole year. Also you need to remember that nationals includes top 32 and not just top 16. Sometimes it's not always about the spectators.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
They changed balls because they were physically hurting the players.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
They changed balls because they were physically hurting the players.
Thats not an appropriate analogy.
A more appropriate analogy would be the NBA making changes to their playoff schedule even after the seedings have been set. If that were to happen, chaos would ensue.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
If the NFL sees that a 5-9 team is tied for 1st place in their division, they don't switch them out with a random 9-5 team from some other division to make sure there isn't a blowout in the playoffs. You cannot make a system like MLG did, which highly influences the choices teams make, (to come to as many MLGs as possible, especially the really soft first one) and then abandon it because it isn't giving you the results you want. Sometimes you have to stick with your bad decisions, because to do otherwise would, while giving you a better product for most people, ruin your credibility and trustworthiness.
Certainly MLG is comfortable changing maps and such, which is more in line with your analogy IMO.
On September 17 2011 07:56 MLG_Adam wrote: Remember there are quite a few sharks in the Open Bracket. 'Easy' pools might be thrown a curve ball based on how it plays out.
Post a list of top confirmed open bracket players soon please :D.
I heard whispers of WhiteRA :O, FXO supposed to be sending Koreans too?
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
They changed balls because they were physically hurting the players.
Thats not an appropriate analogy.
How about the playoff series game number change? Stern announced they were going from bo5s to bo7s midseason.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
If the NFL sees that a 5-9 team is tied for 1st place in their division, they don't switch them out with a random 9-5 team from some other division to make sure there isn't a blowout in the playoffs. You cannot make a system like MLG did, which highly influences the choices teams make, (to come to as many MLGs as possible, especially the really soft first one) and then abandon it because it isn't giving you the results you want. Sometimes you have to stick with your bad decisions, because to do otherwise would, while giving you a better product for most people, ruin your credibility and trustworthiness.
Certainly MLG is comfortable changing maps and such, which is more in line with your analogy IMO.
That is only if you view it as a single season to begin with, which I'm arguing is the initial mistake. Every major tournament uses placement from past events to determine seeds/invitations to future events. They just don't connect them in this way. DH is the perfect example.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
I get where you're coming from, but just sticking with a clearly flawed system because 'that's how you do things' doesn't show much initiative. Yes, you might be compromising your principals, but if it makes it better for 99% of the people out there, why would you not take the leap and change things up? It's not a good thing to have 0 room for flexibility. For example, let's say you guys make a similar mistake next season and things look similar to how it is now (no plan or system is 100% foolproof). That would mean we would have another year of MLGs with a broken system.
With only 2 events to go, yeah it's probably too late to change things now, but I hope you guys are more open-minded about mending the rules mid-season next year.
I know for a fact there was a rule change in Halo: Reach about gametypes directly before MLG Raleigh... which ended up changing how ties were resolved between teams... which affected which team took first place in a pool at MLG Raleigh.
So, there is precedent to change rules mid-season, but I agree it's a bad idea to do so.
I agree that it'd be very disrespectful to the player for MLG to change the rules now... They should just have thought of a better system in the first place and let's hope that next year we'll see some improvements about this all.
To all those saying that pool A is super easy... yeah it's clearly the easiest this time around, but Boxer and IdrA both are top players who could cause a surprise in this event! Never count out the emperor, just remember last time he was there, The others will obviously get rolled, but again it's not their fault, the system of ranking is to blame here.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
It's the same kind of rigidity NASL showed last season when they used the wrong map, and forced everyone to play out a bad map for 2 weeks. Adherence to rules and regulations should only go so far. As an admin, it's your call to make if you want to adjust. If you're uncomfortable with it, you could even ask every pool participant if they would mind. I guarantee you'll get 100% yes, for reforming the system mid-season.
Something to consider is that because of the way rank points work, it was important for players to continue attending every MLG to keep their pool places until finals. This means players may have passed on other events or had to spend less time practicing for bigger prize pool events. Teams also payed hundreds or thousands of dollars to send their players to every event to keep those positions when they may not have sent them long distance for a chance just to win $5k without the additional importance of gathering points. It's not just that it would seem unfair to players who are performing badly and still have stayed in pool play because of the current design. Others would be unfairly affected as well.
Group A: Group of inconsistency. Any of these players could go top 4, or any could place 25th. Group B: Group of potential. Solid overall, and not any easy games. Group C: Group of meh, why watch? Group D: Group of DEATH. Probably the hardest MLG group ever?
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
What a load of unqualified statements. "If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing." Seriously? What about every single major sport on the world? If something is going awfully wrong, they change it. A simple seeding revamp doesn't disadvantage ANYONE except the people who clearly don't deserve a pool play seed. Tell me what is unfair about punishing someone going 0-5 3 tournaments in a row. You say we would hate you if you made changes at will. You mean, like the GSL exchange program - that seems like a random change that was introducing 4 overpowered players into the tournament.
Fix what ain't broke but please please fix what is broken into pieces.
Wonder if Incontrol is already preparing his familiar "I'm so disappointed in myself for losing every game, next time I will make up for this performance" yadayada speech yet >,>
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
I get where you're coming from, but just sticking with a clearly flawed system because 'that's how you do things' doesn't show much initiative. Yes, you might be compromising your principals, but if it makes it better for 99% of the people out there, why would you not take the leap and change things up? It's not a good thing to have 0 room for flexibility. For example, let's say you guys make a similar mistake next season and things look similar to how it is now (no plan or system is 100% foolproof). That would mean we would have another year of MLGs with a broken system.
With only 2 events to go, yeah it's probably too late to change things now, but I hope you guys are more open-minded about mending the rules mid-season next year.
Pool D is so insane... 3 Koreans, HuK and Socke who isn't exactly bad either. If MKP comes through the Open Bracket in this group it would be so sick. It seems that the Korean domination will go on, the only Question ist who will be 1st and who will gain his Code S spot.
On September 17 2011 08:05 Corrik wrote: I know for a fact there was a rule change in Halo: Reach about gametypes directly before MLG Raleigh... which ended up changing how ties were resolved between teams... which affected which team took first place in a pool at MLG Raleigh.
So, there is precedent to change rules mid-season, but I agree it's a bad idea to do so.
But that's specific to the rules of a certain game. The seeding and points affects all of mlg's games and the only reason it isn't working as intended is because players that place highly don't return for the next event in sc2. It works pretty well in all of the other games.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
What a load of unqualified statements. "If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing." Seriously? What about every single major sport on the world? If something is going awfully wrong, they change it. A simple seeding revamp doesn't disadvantage ANYONE except the people who clearly don't deserve a pool play seed. Tell me what is unfair about punishing someone going 0-5 3 tournaments in a row. You say we would hate you if you made changes at will. You mean, like the GSL exchange program - that seems like a random change that was introducing 4 overpowered players into the tournament.
Fix what ain't broke but please please fix what is broken into pieces.
NFL stayed with their playoff system even when the Seahawks made it in at 7-9 due to the rules. Changing rules midseason is fucked up. They know the system is messed up, they are fixing it for next year.
edit: the GSL LXP didn't remove players from pool spots it was an addition to the pool structure.
On September 17 2011 08:05 Corrik wrote: I know for a fact there was a rule change in Halo: Reach about gametypes directly before MLG Raleigh... which ended up changing how ties were resolved between teams... which affected which team took first place in a pool at MLG Raleigh.
So, there is precedent to change rules mid-season, but I agree it's a bad idea to do so.
But that's specific to the rules of a certain game. The seeding and points affects all of mlg's games and the only reason it isn't working as intended is because players that place highly don't return for the next event in sc2. It works pretty well in all of the other games.
The seeding isn't working in regards to SC2 because SC2 incorporated the LXP with Koreans during the middle of the season.
A seeding change in SC2 would be no different than adding the Korean LXP. Again, though, I must stress that I agree with not changing it midseason.
Sucks that Naniwa won't be there . I am attending Orlando and I really wanted to meet him because he is my favorite player. I understand though with him already locked in for the finals and wanting to practice in korea/for blizzcon.
MC, Nestea, MVP is Code S champion several times, thus they should never go to Code A eventually they stop playing games and attending just for fun if GSL have a system like MLG, people on SotG like Artosis and Day9, Incontrol complain so much about the system in GSL code S, but I think that is much much better than the system in MLG, which most of them are working for and commenting in. People like TLO, Haypro, Incontrol, Machine should be out for long time ago. I mean oh yeah, some people said they get high rank lol, they can not ranked LOWER than 28th because they are in POOL already, so stop excusing MLG system, and even look at this group, Group A is by far <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Group D or even B, maybe Incontrol make group B look weaker so. Btw, I can take the underdog, lowest rated player in Group D, Socke, I think he can be the top favorite to win group A.
How is that system sound
Edit: Group C is kind of alright, Ret and Slush they are not bad I think but inconsistent, Rain is a beast actually, he is rank 1 in NA ladder for month with >86% winrate on GM (BcuzofuProS), even though he is not training in Korea anymore. Hongun may look bad in Code S, but he is still consistently Code S ro8 so he would be at least Rain level for sure, Machine single handily make that group look horrible )
Anyway, If you ban me for being unmanner or whatever, but I stated the true here and dont delete my post, put good argument or discussion with me other than ban me like some of abused mod here
Edit 2: oh I forgot how all the good players make a good run like Hero, Ganzi, NaDa, DeMusliM in previous do not even get enough point to pool play, the pool would look much better if they replace some mediocre players.
The only real chance foreigners have is if IdrA somehow doesn't get cheesed in any of his pool play series. If he gets into the winners bracket semis, anything can happen. Still, with MKP joining from the open bracket, along with Hero, Oz or HwangSin, it's safe to predict Koreans taking like 8 out of top 10 places.
On September 17 2011 08:15 kiy0 wrote: The only real chance foreigners have is if IdrA somehow doesn't get cheesed in any of his pool play series. If he gets into the winners bracket semis, anything can happen. Still, with MKP joining from the open bracket, along with Hero, Oz or HwangSin, it's safe to predict Koreans taking like 8 out of top 10 places.
They should take like all of the top 12 at least, almost none of the decent foreigners are attending!
Wow... That is ridiculous. I guess all the Koreans want to go to Disney World or something. Poor Socke, the only player who hasn't been in Korea for the past year or more. B is probably the second hardest with Bomber and Puma. Sheth and Kiwi aren't any slouches either. Liquid'Hero was 40 points behind Drewbie for the last spot in groups. 6 Terrans (4 are Korean) in the groups too. 8 Zergs (2 Korean), 6 Protoss (2 Korean).
I think Bomber repeats with DRG getting second. I think Puma will do really well too.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
They changed balls because they were physically hurting the players.
Thats not an appropriate analogy.
How about the playoff series game number change? Stern announced they were going from bo5s to bo7s midseason.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
If the NFL sees that a 5-9 team is tied for 1st place in their division, they don't switch them out with a random 9-5 team from some other division to make sure there isn't a blowout in the playoffs. You cannot make a system like MLG did, which highly influences the choices teams make, (to come to as many MLGs as possible, especially the really soft first one) and then abandon it because it isn't giving you the results you want. Sometimes you have to stick with your bad decisions, because to do otherwise would, while giving you a better product for most people, ruin your credibility and trustworthiness.
Certainly MLG is comfortable changing maps and such, which is more in line with your analogy IMO.
That is only if you view it as a single season to begin with, which I'm arguing is the initial mistake. Every major tournament uses placement from past events to determine seeds/invitations to future events. They just don't connect them in this way. DH is the perfect example.
Thats still not an appropriate analogy. Reseeding the teams would be a more appropriate one. As you can see, the NBA will always do this before the season starts.
There goes my hopes that a foreigner is going to win, makes it worse that team Diginitas will be in Korea during the Tourney making it harder for one of the foreigners to win. ON TOP of which Hero' and MKP will be coming out of the open bracket and that's the koreans that we know of at the moment.. who knows how koreans FXOBoss will be sending to Orlando as well.
On September 17 2011 08:13 minhbq299 wrote: MC, Nestea, MVP is Code S champion several times, thus they should never go to Code A eventually they stop playing games and attending just for fun if GSL have a system like MLG, people on SotG like Artosis and Day9, Incontrol complain so much about the system in GSL code S, but I think that is much much better than the system in MLG, which most of them are working for and commenting in. People like TLO, Haypro, Incontrol, Machine should be out for long time ago. I mean oh yeah, some people said they get high rank lol, they can not ranked LOWER than 28th because they are in POOL already, so stop excusing MLG system, and even look at this group, Group A is by far <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Group D or even B, maybe Incontrol make group B look weaker so. Btw, I can take the underdog, lowest rated player in Group D, Socke, I think he can be the top favorite to win group A.
How is that system sound
Edit: Group C is kind of alright, Ret and Slush they are not bad I think but inconsistent, Rain is a beast actually, he is rank 1 in NA ladder for month with >86% winrate on GM (BcuzofuProS), even though he is not training in Korea anymore. Hongun may look bad in Code S, but he is still consistently Code S ro8 so he would be at least Rain level for sure, Machine single handily make that group look horrible )
Anyway, If you ban me for being unmanner or whatever, but I stated the true here and dont delete my post, put good argument or discussion with me other than ban me like some of abused mod here
Edit 2: oh I forgot how all the good players make a good run like Hero, Ganzi, NaDa, DeMusliM in previous MLG do not even get enough point to pool play, the pool would look much better if they replace some mediocre players.
On September 17 2011 08:15 kiy0 wrote: The only real chance foreigners have is if IdrA somehow doesn't get cheesed in any of his pool play series. If he gets into the winners bracket semis, anything can happen. Still, with MKP joining from the open bracket, along with Hero, Oz or HwangSin, it's safe to predict Koreans taking like 8 out of top 10 places.
They should take like all of the top 12 at least, almost none of the decent foreigners are attending!
Huk, Kiwi, Sheth, Idra (if he gets his head straight, but how likely is it?) can all place top 12 imo. I would add Socke too cause he is so good, but his group is just ridiculously hard. Huk will have an advantage (over Socke) just because he knows the Koreans in the group better. I don't see the group going much better for Huk than Socke though...
Also if Demuslim makes it up through the open bracket I can see him making some noise if the championship bracket falls in his favor a bit.
On September 17 2011 08:22 TheDiversion wrote: There goes my hopes that a foreigner is going to win, makes it worse that team Diginitas will be in Korea during the Tourney making it harder for one of the foreigners to win. ON TOP of which Hero' and MKP will be coming out of the open bracket and that's of those that we know of at the moment.. who knows how koreans FXOBoss will be sending to Orlando as well.
It's ok...maybe one will make top 12. Be optimistic. xD
On September 17 2011 08:22 TheDiversion wrote: There goes my hopes that a foreigner is going to win, makes it worse that team Diginitas will be in Korea during the Tourney making it harder for one of the foreigners to win. ON TOP of which Hero' and MKP will be coming out of the open bracket and that's of those that we know of at the moment.. who knows how koreans FXOBoss will be sending to Orlando as well.
It's ok...maybe one will make top 12. Be optimistic. xD
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
They changed balls because they were physically hurting the players.
Thats not an appropriate analogy.
How about the playoff series game number change? Stern announced they were going from bo5s to bo7s midseason.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
What about the NBA switching balls mid-season after players complained about the new material? The NFL has made mid-season changes as well.
If the NFL sees that a 5-9 team is tied for 1st place in their division, they don't switch them out with a random 9-5 team from some other division to make sure there isn't a blowout in the playoffs. You cannot make a system like MLG did, which highly influences the choices teams make, (to come to as many MLGs as possible, especially the really soft first one) and then abandon it because it isn't giving you the results you want. Sometimes you have to stick with your bad decisions, because to do otherwise would, while giving you a better product for most people, ruin your credibility and trustworthiness.
Certainly MLG is comfortable changing maps and such, which is more in line with your analogy IMO.
That is only if you view it as a single season to begin with, which I'm arguing is the initial mistake. Every major tournament uses placement from past events to determine seeds/invitations to future events. They just don't connect them in this way. DH is the perfect example.
BTW, I agree with your points too and I see where youre coming from. I also think the system is flawed and guys like Machine, Inc, TLO, haypro should be out already. I just think it would be even worse if they changed their system mid way. Theyve already announced plans to fix them next year so theyre obviously aware of it as well. And I dont think the seeding has hurt the results in anyway, the most deserving players always hit up top 8.
It does suck for people like Demulism and Hero to not get pool play but all of that will change.
MLG is officially becoming mini-GSL, code-S drop-out's rescue mission. Not necessarily a bad thing, I guess, but we will have to see what happens next year.
If Idra doesn't get 1st in group A, he should no longer be considered a top player. Group B is pretty good (the only underdog is Incontrol). Group C should be decided between Ret and HongUn. Group D is sick! Sick I tell you!
On September 17 2011 08:13 minhbq299 wrote: MC, Nestea, MVP is Code S champion several times, thus they should never go to Code A eventually they stop playing games and attending just for fun if GSL have a system like MLG, people on SotG like Artosis and Day9, Incontrol complain so much about the system in GSL code S, but I think that is much much better than the system in MLG, which most of them are working for and commenting in. People like TLO, Haypro, Incontrol, Machine should be out for long time ago. I mean oh yeah, some people said they get high rank lol, they can not ranked LOWER than 28th because they are in POOL already.
Interesting point, it's funny the GSL system gets so much criticism when MLG's own ranking system is as bad as it is.
With that being said, group D... damn.
It's good to see such a strong showing by the Koreans too, so we should end up with some really good games to watch :D
On September 17 2011 06:54 Choboo wrote: Worst MLG ever. Seriously without Naniwa, Sjow and Select foreigners have no chance. The only European on that list except for the liquid guys is Socke T__T gg wp Koreans...
wtf lol? Huk had been the highest ranked foreign player at almost every single mlg (except the one idra did well in. So maybe you should revise, unless you consider him a korean.
On September 17 2011 06:54 Choboo wrote: Worst MLG ever. Seriously without Naniwa, Sjow and Select foreigners have no chance. The only European on that list except for the liquid guys is Socke T__T gg wp Koreans...
wtf lol? Huk had been the highest ranked foreign player at almost every single mlg (except the one idra did well in. So maybe you should revise, unless you consider him a korean.
I don't really understand the sympathy for iNcontroL. It's not even the hardest group. Look at Socke's ffs.
If he wants to prove he deserves his seed, he'll perform well in it. If not then well, it'll be a 3rd consecutive 0-5 in a row and he'll still be seeded in the top 16 lol.
On September 17 2011 08:13 minhbq299 wrote: MC, Nestea, MVP is Code S champion several times, thus they should never go to Code A eventually they stop playing games and attending just for fun if GSL have a system like MLG, people on SotG like Artosis and Day9, Incontrol complain so much about the system in GSL code S, but I think that is much much better than the system in MLG, which most of them are working for and commenting in. People like TLO, Haypro, Incontrol, Machine should be out for long time ago. I mean oh yeah, some people said they get high rank lol, they can not ranked LOWER than 28th because they are in POOL already.
Interesting point, it's funny the GSL system gets so much criticism when MLG's own ranking system is as bad as it is.
With that being said, group D... damn.
It's good to see such a strong showing by the Koreans too, so we should end up with some really good games to watch :D
HongUn FIGHTING!!!
MLG's system gets so much shit. Its why they announced they are changing it next season. I think MLG's system is the most criticized out of any major tournament. Even incontrol said its broken.
Wow… group D is devastating. The spirit pressure (霊圧) of the players alone is enough to crush Socke. I love the guy to death, but this is the first time that I'm genuinely afraid of following a tournament. If he can put up a fight against murderous giants like these, my respect for him will have increased tenfold, easily. GOOD LUCK, SOCKE!!
iNcontroL seems to get shafted time and time again, too, but that might be because he isn't in a form that puts him into the top20 in the first place. Now maybe he's gotten back to where he was at Broodwar by managing to reap the benefits of the EG house to the full extent. That's certainly something I like to & am excited to see.
IdrA's group on the other hand looks like a cakewalk, haha. There's no challenge at all if he's put the presence of DeMusliM to good use, to prepare to return the favor to Boxer after he had to admit defeat the last time they played against each other.
The encroaching number of Koreans and their unequal distribution among the groups is threatening to make MLG less appealing to me than it used to. But changes to the points system were mentioned and the players in pool play are rather variant, so we'll see how it turns out.
On September 17 2011 08:33 karis wrote: awesome beyond freaking belief. see MKP being able to win any bracket he ends up in assuming he makes it through the open bracket.
MKP first !!!!
July second!!!
epic epicseries. no idra vs mc matchup though so sad about that.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
Consistancy is a good thing. It's not MLG's fault that the players don't show up to every tournament.
That being said, i think the qualification system would solve a lot of problems including players spending a ton of money in order to travel to compete in the open bracket.
That said, I think you should expand the brackets to 8 groups of 4 with top 2 advancing similar to the world cup style. No extended series rule. In the world cup, if you win against a team 2-0 in the pool play, you don't start 2 goals ahead in the playoffs.
Also, the points system should be a little less top-heavy. Consistancy is more important than getting #1 all the time.
On September 17 2011 08:31 TheHova wrote: I don't really understand the sympathy for iNcontroL. It's not even the hardest group. Look at Socke's ffs.
If he wants to prove he deserves his seed, he'll perform well in it. If not then well, it'll be a 3rd consecutive 0-5 in a row and he'll still be seeded in the top 16 lol.
Gotta love the MLG system haha.
Well, Socke has recently won 2 SCI's in a row, and usually produces good games. His group is much harder, but he'll probably at least not bomb out after constantly doing failed void ray all-ins.
On September 17 2011 08:13 minhbq299 wrote: MC, Nestea, MVP is Code S champion several times, thus they should never go to Code A eventually they stop playing games and attending just for fun if GSL have a system like MLG, people on SotG like Artosis and Day9, Incontrol complain so much about the system in GSL code S, but I think that is much much better than the system in MLG, which most of them are working for and commenting in. People like TLO, Haypro, Incontrol, Machine should be out for long time ago. I mean oh yeah, some people said they get high rank lol, they can not ranked LOWER than 28th because they are in POOL already.
Interesting point, it's funny the GSL system gets so much criticism when MLG's own ranking system is as bad as it is.
With that being said, group D... damn.
It's good to see such a strong showing by the Koreans too, so we should end up with some really good games to watch :D
HongUn FIGHTING!!!
MLG's system gets so much shit. Its why they announced they are changing it next season. I think MLG's system is the most criticized out of any major tournament. Even incontrol said its broken.
I think GSL should get more criticism, but people keep saying "it's just like OSL" and thus that means it's ok?
But yeah, I actually like the general concept of MLG's system, but I do think it needs a little more shake up to keep the pool players relevant as top players.
On that note: "they announced they are changing it next season" <--- did they announce what they would change, or just that they are changing it?
On September 17 2011 08:36 TERRANLOL wrote: Where is liquidHero?
In the open bracket.
LOL. No offense to incontrol but why is incontrol in the pool play and hero in the open bracket? It must be based on points and not on previous tournament standing?
I am actually happy to see incontrol in the pool play though. I want to see him be successful
On September 17 2011 06:54 k!llua wrote: Poor socke?
More like poor iNcontroL. He's going to get romped, again.
Maybe because iNcontroL isn't anywhere near the level of all the other players? I'm still surprised he's in pool play. He hasn't done well in any tournaments in the last 6 months. Same to machine.
On September 17 2011 08:36 TERRANLOL wrote: Where is liquidHero?
In the open bracket.
LOL. No offense to incontrol but why is incontrol in the pool play and hero in the open bracket? It must be based on points and not on previous tournament standing?
Well to be fair it's not just InControl that's been underperfoming.. I can easily name 2 others in Pool Play that don't belong there but that's just how the points system works. Good thing they're changing it up next year.
On September 17 2011 08:36 TERRANLOL wrote: Where is liquidHero?
In the open bracket.
LOL. No offense to incontrol but why is incontrol in the pool play and hero in the open bracket? It must be based on points and not on previous tournament standing?
Are you not familiar with MLG at all? Its all based on points that build up at each MLG. Last MLG was Hero's first and he is 40 points behind Drewbie, the player in groups with the least amount of points).
On September 17 2011 08:36 TERRANLOL wrote: Where is liquidHero?
In the open bracket.
LOL. No offense to incontrol but why is incontrol in the pool play and hero in the open bracket? It must be based on points and not on previous tournament standing?
Are you not familiar with MLG at all? Its all based on points that build up at each MLG. Last MLG was Hero's first and he is 40 points behind Drewbie, the player in groups with the least amount of points).
ahh gotcha. And I've watched a lot of MLG but i'm still learning the rules.
On September 17 2011 08:31 TheHova wrote: I don't really understand the sympathy for iNcontroL. It's not even the hardest group. Look at Socke's ffs.
If he wants to prove he deserves his seed, he'll perform well in it. If not then well, it'll be a 3rd consecutive 0-5 in a row and he'll still be seeded in the top 16 lol.
Gotta love the MLG system haha.
Well, Socke has recently won 2 SCI's in a row, and usually produces good games. His group is much harder, but he'll probably at least not bomb out after constantly doing failed void ray all-ins.
Hey now, that's not fair. They'll be DT's thrown into the mix in a couple of series too.
And it's not Socke's fault that he's playing much better. I'm sure he'd love to trade groups with iNcontroL if he could. That group D is... :|. It's a dog eat dog world, time to step up Mr iNcontroL. You'll never have a better chance to prove people wrong.
I'm not really excited for this MLG at all compared to past ones. Not many good foreigners compared to the past ones. Koreans will dominate even more. The system makes me sad. I think i'm going to have to sit this one out until the next one or until it gets fixed.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
Yes, that's why you need to be more flexible. I understand that you view the entire circuit as a season, and that each junction in it should be 100% equal, but that's not how anyone else views it and it holds your product back. We get an inferior product (worse pool play) because of it.
You have a bad point system. You have a relatively small prize pool. It's a new event, not game 5 of a 5 game season. You should make the jump and correct those shortcomings. No one from game/events 1-4 will seriously complain about improvements being made mid-season.
Again. Will never happen. If you cannot rest on your rules, you have nothing. That is the foundation of what you do, and it cannot change on the fly. Hate us for bad seeding, fine. You would hate us more if we made changes at will.
This has been a standing policy since 2003. Next year will be the first time in MLG history that a calendar year will be treated as multiple seasons. Unfortunately this year, 2011, is not afforded that luxury.
Consistancy is a good thing. It's not MLG's fault that the players don't show up to every tournament.
That being said, i think the qualification system would solve a lot of problems including players spending a ton of money in order to travel to compete in the open bracket.
That said, I think you should expand the brackets to 8 groups of 4 with top 2 advancing similar to the world cup style. No extended series rule. In the world cup, if you win against a team 2-0 in the pool play, you don't start 2 goals ahead in the playoffs.
Also, the points system should be a little less top-heavy. Consistancy is more important than getting #1 all the time.
I like this idea! World Cup style is awesome and yeah no extended series. Semi-final and final make it Bo5.
Pool A I hope Idra wins it so he is guaranteed in top 6, he can definitely take on Boxer but I think its 50/50. Just practice 24/7 against Puma and I don't see him losing to the Emperor. Well, even if it's a Korean top 8 there are embres of hope still w Dignitas training in Korea. Look fwd to how they do @ Providence.
Pool B Don't see Bomber or Puma losing to anyone other than each other.
Pool C Ret has a decent shot at this, go Liquid!
Pool D I hope MC tops the Grp and goes on to get Code S come on!!
That Group D is just ridiculous!! Huk/MC/DRG/July?!?!!? .... Not a single terran in the group either, makin' the P & Z greats kill each other off early
This many Koreans and almost no players from EU, this has good potential of being the most korean dominated MLG to date, and that is quiet a feat given the previous MLG:s results xD
Okey their is a a small, small chanse of foreigners doing good. Espically Idra which is in the by far easiest group, if he "only" can win against boxer he is a great spot for taking first place in that pool. The other "real" foreign hopes Kiwi, Ret, HuK + (Sheth/Socke?) are all going to need to put up their freaking A-game every game if they are going to make into top 6-8. Espically if you consider that players like MKP is coming from the open bracket.
I try to be optimstic about foreigners but this time it look gloomier then ever for the foreign community. The fact that so many of the attending foreigners in the pools are not even like top 50 foreigners is still a joke though. Sometime I think this tournament is designed to make foreign community to look bad.
I mean Haypro, Slush, TLO, Machine, inControl, Drewbie... Are u freaking kidding me? Like when was the last time any of these players put up even a decent perfomance in a any semi large tournament. And to be honest I dont understand why all Koreans attend at these MLG:s, I can only assume that the code S-spot/the global attention is the main reasons.
Cause people ask why the top Europeans dont attend, and to me it is only logical to be honest. To start with is the price pool is almost comically low, like the winner of shoutcraft invititional, which is 75% for fun weekend tournament get 3k, and the winner of MLG get 5k?
To go to a tournament which is have hundreds of players and you have to through an open bracket and then you have to play against like 10+ top top Koreans in the end. Even if you are on freaking fire and you step back and look at it for a moment you have to realise that the chanse for winning that tournament from a pure statistical view is really low. You are going to need to win a lot of freaking hard matches so you better not have a bad 10min play cause it is going to cost u the tournament.
And then it is the air plane ticket forward and back to europe, food and other stuff, I guess it would land around 1.5k? So we have a large investment to join and tournament which packed with fierce competion and if you actually amazingly manage to win you get like what, 3k+ if you withdraw the expenses.
The more I think about the more weird it actually seems, I for sure wouldnt go if I where given those odds ^^
On September 17 2011 06:58 dAPhREAk wrote: idra has an ez pz group. he is going to take it (and get revenge on boxer post bfh nerf). =) i have faith in him.
Agreed. Honestly I'm happy Idra got an ez grp because I'm a fanboy and I haven't seen much coming from him lately since like 1-2 MLGs ago.
On September 17 2011 06:58 dAPhREAk wrote: idra has an ez pz group. he is going to take it (and get revenge on boxer post bfh nerf). =) i have faith in him.
Agreed. Honestly I'm happy Idra got an ez grp because I'm a fanboy and I haven't seen much coming from him lately since like 1-2 MLGs ago.
I think he's gotten pretty tough groups the last few MLG's, so I'm glad that he's finally gotten a bit lucky.
On September 17 2011 06:58 dAPhREAk wrote: idra has an ez pz group. he is going to take it (and get revenge on boxer post bfh nerf). =) i have faith in him.
Agreed. Honestly I'm happy Idra got an ez grp because I'm a fanboy and I haven't seen much coming from him lately since like 1-2 MLGs ago.
I actually think that because of the specific groups this time around, that Orlando has the best chance of a foreigner getting into the top 6 for the first time since the GSL exchange program started. If Idra can just win his group (meaning, if he can beat Boxer), then he's guaranteed top 6.
they need swap some players from group D into group A. Group A looks toooo easy for Idra. EG must have paid MLG lots of money to prevent another Idra rage.
On September 17 2011 06:58 dAPhREAk wrote: idra has an ez pz group. he is going to take it (and get revenge on boxer post bfh nerf). =) i have faith in him.
Agreed. Honestly I'm happy Idra got an ez grp because I'm a fanboy and I haven't seen much coming from him lately since like 1-2 MLGs ago.
He better step it up his ZvT.
He better step up all his match ups. They've all been lackluster as of late.
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Because MLG uses a point system and its top heavy so his 4th place finish at Dallas has kept him up there in points.
Group D is SO hard to predict, anybody could come out of that in first or second, I have to say July and Socke probably have it the hardest. Group B will be a Bomber and PuMa show but Kiwi has some strange Gohan power that he can bring forth when he needs it and can beat anybody on his day and after last MLG, who knows.
On September 17 2011 08:51 Tobon wrote: I actually think that because of the specific groups this time around, that Orlando has the best chance of a foreigner getting into the top 6 for the first time since the GSL exchange program started. If Idra can just win his group (meaning, if he can beat Boxer), then he's guaranteed top 6.
There might be a korean from the open bracket in that group though :p.
in D, every player can beat one another, maybe except socke vs drg. AND each player (even socke with his recent results) would be concidered top 2 favorite in group A.
lol HongUn. Definitely did not see him getting picked. He's either going to go far with some strange shit, or bomb out hard. Would have rather seen Sage, but HongUn is good too. That said, IMO I'd be more exciting to see non-Code S players get invited. It greatly adds to the excitement when you realise that the players are fighting for a coveted Code S-spot.
What exactly is the reasoning behind the choices, if I may ask. Is it just "Oh, that guy's awesome", as JP jokingly admitted it was, or does other factors weigh in?
It'd be cool if you would run community votes or something. Sure, it'd be MKP topping the votes all the time (don't remember if you put an invite cap per player, but I'm assuming you did?), but it would be a cool way to get feedback from the community, to see who they want to watch take home compete at MLG. Just a thought.
Anyhow, keep it up MLG. You're doing great work, and I'll continue watching as long as you keep producing content. :D
Edit: Also, holy shit, Group D is soooooo stacked. GET HYPE
On September 17 2011 08:53 Grettin wrote: MC could easily get his Code S spot back, or even Boxer!
I wouldn't say getting Top 3 in this tournament is gonna be easy.
Yeah this is a tough one to call. MC is no longer a juggernaut and July should be itching for his revenge when he finally faces MC again. Then theres always Bomber and PuMa, either could win it all with Bomber being the more favored to. This is going to be a fun one guys.
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Because he is on EG
EG = $$$
I just got the report button and I dont want to misuse it but would this count as pure spam and trolling? I mean theres already a lot of confusion about the ranking system but comments like these just make matters worse right?
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Because he is on EG
EG = $$$
I just got the report button and I dont want to misuse it but would this count as pure spam and trolling? I mean theres already a lot of confusion about the ranking system but comments like these just make matters worse right?
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
what the hell are you talking about, they're just making the pools according to previous results, the points people gain from previous MLGs...
Uhmm... they did not follow the regular arrangement of rankings... as much as we all love Boxer, they should be fair with the arrangement of pool play that they used before.... if he's 15th, he should be at Pool B. use your brain.... if u have one... LOL
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Even if they didn't invite him back, he attended all the MLGs except for the first two, and also got 4th place in MLG Dallas 2011 (mind you, it was when no koreans from korea flew over to compete), so he has enough rank points to stay in pool play (if you look at the MLG site he is currently seeded #8).
It doesn't really help him that much since he's been torn apart in pool play anyway. I'm not sure if players like HongUn and July, who don't attend many MLG events, are simply in pools b/c of the exchange program or because they had enough points from their previous MLGs to get in, but sad to see Hero and MKP fighting through the open bracket, though I'm sure they'll make it to pool play...unless they vs. each other o_o
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Because he is on EG
EG = $$$
I just got the report button and I dont want to misuse it but would this count as pure spam and trolling? I mean theres already a lot of confusion about the ranking system but comments like these just make matters worse right?
If you go back, he's been warned for it :p.
Haha cool. I thought that was a pretty silly statement considering the ongoing discussion.
On September 17 2011 07:41 ThePoPcornBoY wrote: its sooo obvious they want Boxer to have a chance with the Code S spot.... is this still MLG or GSL? LOL
what the hell are you talking about, they're just making the pools according to previous results, the points people gain from previous MLGs...
Uhmm... they did not follow the regular arrangement of rankings... as much as we all love Boxer, they should be fair with the arrangement of pool play that they used before.... if he's 15th, he should be at Pool B. use your brain.... if u have one... LOL
Umm how about you use yours? Boxer isn't placed based off of previous results because he is an INVITE. Invites aren't placed using their results. Hence why Bomber isn't nor why MMA wasn't in Anaheim. The pools are based off of point rankings and then Boxer, Bomber, Hongun and July were each put in separate groups.
On September 17 2011 09:00 IcedBacon wrote: HongUn, really? :|
What is wrong with HongUn? He is one of the most consistent code S players, and the most sought-after practice partner among T/Z players who are facing a P opponent in code S. (read the interviews after RO8, RO4 of the past GSLs and how many T/Z players thank HongUn for helping their practices) I'm annoyed by those hyping unproven quality protoss players (such as Hero, Sage, and Puzzle to an extent) yet downplaying those who already have produced respectable results. (Such as HongUn, Genius, etc.)
I am normally not against the hype around up-and-coming players, but you can hype them without being so disrespectful to those who precede them. When I started playing toss I had learned so many builds from Genius' replays.
Hey I don't know about you guys but I can probably see Drewbie taking a game from IdrA, not to mention Boxer and someone from the open bracket and IdrA, I dunno don't see him having a sure top 2 like other people are saying.
On September 17 2011 09:06 Jcnorheim wrote: D>B>C>>A
Based on the respective strengths of the players in the pools.
Also, so close for a HERO SEED.
I would say that pool C is probably harder than pool A.
He has pool C as harder than pool A
I said that wrong. I meant Pool A as harder than pool C. I would still put Idra as better than Ret and Boxer showed he was better than Raid last MLG.
I really find the idea that Boxer is better than Rain dubious. Also, the 3 "leftovers" of HongUn/Slush/Machine are much, much better than the 3 "leftovers" of Haypro/TLO/Drewbie.
OMG I am so happy! An MLG close enough for me to go to and I get to see not only boxer and Bomber, but also MC and July! Could not be happier with the pool play for this one.
Drewbie is going to have a hard time in that pool, but anyone would. I would Love to see the TLO vs BoxeR game because I bet it will be very interesting. I get the feeling the emperor might just demolish him though Excited to see if Idra can bring his "real" game here and show people what he can do.
Well, I don't care about group A, since there is no protoss. In group B there is 1 protoss (Kiwikaki), but sadly I don't see him taking games off Puma or Bomber, maybe he stands a chance against Sheth depending on the patch arrival. I would be extremely disappointed if Hongun drops a game in his group, I'm really curious how he plays, since I haven't watched him for a long time. Group D seems really interesting, MC is still the best toss in the world and he will win it, but after that it is really complicated, everything depends on the patch and the randomness of PvP and ZvZ.
On September 17 2011 09:01 sitromit wrote: So what exactly determines pool seeding from the open brackets? Which pool is MKP more likely to end up in?
It depends on the Open Bracket seed of the 4 Open Bracket winners; the highest seeded goes into group A, the next highest B, etc. So if the 1st, 84th, 35th, 210th seeds won, the 1st seed would go Group A, 35th seed Group B, 84th seed Group C, 210th seed Group D.
As most of the Open Bracket will need to be randomly seeded because most of them won't have rank points, it's hard to tell where MarineKingPrime would end up as we don't know what his seed will be - could be anywhere from 70s to 256. However, as a couple people with rank points will likely make it out of the Open Bracket (Hero, Tyler, DeMuslim, etc) he'll probably end up in Group C or Group D if he makes it out of the Open Winner's Bracket.
I'm glad that we get to see Boxer again, but it seems unfair that he gets invited back without being the reigning champion. There have been complaints that there are too many Terrans being invited, and there is some speculation that some top Terran's haven't been invited because so many Terran's have been invited so far, so it seems unfair to invited Boxer again. It took donations from the community to get MKP to this event, and he's going to have to play through the open bracket, while Boxer gets put straight into the pools.
I kind of wish BoxeR was in a different group. He should be able to make it out of that group pretty easily. I want to see my emperor actually tested. ^.^
On September 17 2011 09:45 Quotidian wrote: How difficult is it to actually get pushed out of group stages? I'm kind of shocked to see that Incontrol is still in there...
He got 4th in the first MLG. EDIT: Of the season (Columbus)
To put that in context, even if he hadn't participated in any MLGs since, his 4th place would still have him in group play.
IMO, MLG needs to give out more points as the season goes on, so 4th place in Columbus isn't worth as much as 4th place in Raleigh/Orlando.
On September 17 2011 09:40, Eufouria wrote: I'm glad that we get to see Boxer again, but it seems unfair that he gets invited back without being the reigning champion. There have been complaints that there are too many Terrans being invited, and there is some speculation that some top Terran's haven't been invited because so many Terran's have been invited so far, so it seems unfair to invited Boxer again. It took donations from the community to get MKP to this event, and he's going to have to play through the open bracket, while Boxer gets put straight into the pools.
Even if Boxer came to Orlando by his own means, he would be seeded into pool play due to his 3rd place at anahiem.
On September 17 2011 06:54 Choboo wrote: Worst MLG ever. Seriously without Naniwa, Sjow and Select foreigners have no chance. The only European on that list except for the liquid guys is Socke T__T gg wp Koreans...
dont be delusion, foreigners didnt have a chance anyways
On September 17 2011 09:45 Quotidian wrote: How difficult is it to actually get pushed out of group stages? I'm kind of shocked to see that Incontrol is still in there...
He got 4th in the first MLG. EDIT: Of the season (Columbus)
To put that in context, even if he hadn't participated in any MLGs since, his 4th place would still have him in group play.
IMO, MLG needs to give out more points as the season goes on, so 4th place in Columbus isn't worth as much as 4th place in Raleigh/Orlando.
And how long is the season? It just strips the entire group play concept of any credibility when players with his "performance" manages to stay in groups for this long.
Wow I feel bad for incontrol, he's about to go 0-10 again. Can't wait for the IdrA boxer rematch now though! What new strat will boxer bring! Should be really really good games can't wait!
Pool A is ok. Boxer should take it easy, except maybe losing to Idra, but I doubt that. Pool B I'm actually looking forward to. Kiwikaki has stupid awesome PvT, and took a game off of Puma. I hope he can own both of them, though that is no easy feat.
Pool C is somewhat interesting. I want to see how HongUn can handle Slush+Ret, who are no slouches. Other than those, I think Rain is the only thing to look at for.
D is ridiculous. Pretty sure Socke will get trashed, but still... Idk if Huk, July or MC will beat DRG, who has showed me that I was 100% wrong about the first MLG he attended.
On September 17 2011 09:57 wats0n wrote: It's like MLG is trying to give Boxer Code S. Group A is a joke compared to the other 4.
More like MLG giving Idra aka EG(NA) some hope.
If that was the case they would have swapped Huk for Idra. Boxer is practically guaranteed top 6 MLG by winning that group and they know it. Except he probably will lose to who comes from the open bracket.
Group A is incredibly weak compared to the other groups, and group D is the hardest in MLG history. Ill go boxer, Puma in an upset over Bomber, Rain by a hair. and DRG in a super tight set of matches. Nobody winning all 5 pool play matches in group D, guaranteed.
These groups need to be randomly drawn publicly at this point. Cronyism and impropriety will taint any sport that doesn't maintain transparency. Boxer could end up in Code S simply for beating Haypro, TLO, Drewbie, Idra, and winning two TvT's. That's why Killer stood up at the last Code S group drawing and said how DRG and MMA didn't deserve their Code S spots.
It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
On September 17 2011 10:24 Malinor wrote: It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
The groups are random. MLG points don't seed the groups.
MLG's system is MLG's fault. They need to adopt a system of transparency in the future.
On September 17 2011 10:24 Malinor wrote: It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
The groups are random. MLG points don't seed the groups.
MLG's system is MLG's fault. They need to adopt a system of transparency in the future.
What part of MLG's system isnt transparent? You know how points are garnered ahead of time you know that every event of the season counts towards those totals. Every part of there system is known its just that . The only problem with the system is that you have Koreans coming in and taking places 1-5 and not returning thus making those points useless and any1 who has those places and does return has a serious advantage (ie Incontrol Kiwikaki Naniwa)
On September 17 2011 06:54 Choboo wrote: Worst MLG ever. Seriously without Naniwa, Sjow and Select foreigners have no chance. The only European on that list except for the liquid guys is Socke T__T gg wp Koreans...
It's funny you say that. My initial response was 'BEST MLG EVER'.
On September 17 2011 10:24 Malinor wrote: It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
The groups are random. MLG points don't seed the groups.
MLG's system is MLG's fault. They need to adopt a system of transparency in the future.
What part of MLG's system isnt transparent?
They seed the groups behind closed curtain? That's the dictionary definition of intransparent. Some people may ask why HongUn gets the group he got and Boxer gets the group he got...and there's also the fact Boxer is friends with the MLG brass. It raises red flags.
Imagine the NBA draft if the commissioner went behind a curtain by himself then emerged and told everyone who got the #1 pick. I think a few people would take issue with that kind of system.
i feel like these pools are some sort of multiple choice "which of these don't belong" kinda thing. idra gets an easy group, while the others (especially D) are really stacked.
On September 17 2011 10:24 Malinor wrote: It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
The groups are random. MLG points don't seed the groups.
MLG's system is MLG's fault. They need to adopt a system of transparency in the future.
What part of MLG's system isnt transparent?
They seed the groups behind closed curtain? That's the dictionary definition of intransparent. Some people may ask why HongUn gets the group he got and Boxer gets the group he got...and there's also the fact Boxer is friends with the MLG brass. It raises red flags.
Imagine the NBA draft if the commissioner went behind a curtain by himself then emerged and told everyone who got the #1 pick. I think a few people would take issue with that kind of system.
They are seeded off rank points. The Koreans are seeded off GSL rank. Hongun's GSL Rank >>>> Boxer's GSL rank
On September 17 2011 10:24 Malinor wrote: It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
The groups are random. MLG points don't seed the groups.
MLG's system is MLG's fault. They need to adopt a system of transparency in the future.
Except they seed the groups? Many people dislike MLG's system, but this is the first time I have seen someone claim that they aren't seeded at all. That is what the MLG rank points are for.
On September 17 2011 10:24 Malinor wrote: It is really not MLGs fault that the pools look so disbalanced this time. It happens all the time in sports. Upper half of a Grand Slam in Teenis having far more superior players than the upper half, in the NBA the Western Conference being far superior to the east during the last decade. The disbalanced pools this time and the general problems of MLGs seeding/ranking system are two completely different things.
The groups are random. MLG points don't seed the groups.
MLG's system is MLG's fault. They need to adopt a system of transparency in the future.
What part of MLG's system isnt transparent?
They seed the groups behind closed curtain? That's the dictionary definition of intransparent. Some people may ask why HongUn gets the group he got and Boxer gets the group he got...and there's also the fact Boxer is friends with the MLG brass. It raises red flags.
Imagine the NBA draft if the commissioner went behind a curtain by himself then emerged and told everyone who got the #1 pick. I think a few people would take issue with that kind of system.
They are seeded off rank points. The Koreans are seeded off GSL rank. Hongun's GSL Rank >>>> Boxer's GSL rank
Didn't know they used GSL points for the Koreans. I thought they placed them arbitrarily/randomly. Okay, fair enough. That doesn't make for the best groups (as evidenced here) but at least it is fair and not improper. I was wrong.
Looking it at the ranking its a shame hero barley missed out on pool play or If tyler would have beaten haypro and placed in 21st like he did he would have snuck into pools instead of drewbie
ooo well ... fighting in the open bracket ^_^ Top 4 Open Bracket Players: Hero Tyler Fenix (is Fenix going?) CrunCher
If Fenix doesn't show then "Devil Terran" DeMusliM is the 4th ranked open bracket player :D
How is this... I don't even know.. How could group D be real.. that's like the semi finals or top 5 candidates right there! That is batshit insane
Group B is very strong too, I feel A is going to be EZPZ for boxer. All depends on what happens with the Open players who make it into pool play I guess.
I swear the groups get better with every MLG. Lets just hope the games are good! Pool D looks amazing and I think that Ret might surprise a few people in this tournament.
wow they stacked all the talent into 2 groups (MLGfail) and then there's a group A which is...the best chance idra has at showing well at an MLG this year
On September 17 2011 12:11 tyrless wrote: wow they stacked all the talent into 2 groups (MLGfail) and then there's a group A which is...the best chance idra has at showing well at an MLG this year
Meh Idra got 4th already at Columbus with the Koreans, so it's not like he's terrible. But yeah he definitely has the easiest group.
That being said MLG used their system fairly, no reason to complain.
imho group c is by far the easiest. groups d and b are quite sick, but i wouldnt underestimate group a either. oh, and incontrol is pretty much guaranteed to go 0-5 or 1-4 again. oh huk, your group is soooo stacked
On September 17 2011 12:11 tyrless wrote: wow they stacked all the talent into 2 groups (MLGfail) and then there's a group A which is...the best chance idra has at showing well at an MLG this year
Lol, don't be dumb. They don't choose who goes in what group, it goes by seeding.
Seeing incontroll is still 8th seed makes me feel like crying.
Anyone know if Thorzain is coming at all? Or other players such as Mana, Stephano, Nerchio, White Ra, etc... Any Euro's for the open bracket I guess is what I'm asking.
On September 17 2011 12:45 Dexington wrote: Anyone know if Thorzain is coming at all? Or other players such as Mana, Stephano, Nerchio, White Ra, etc... Any Euro's for the open bracket I guess is what I'm asking.
ThorZaiN didn't want to come back after Columbus(?) because of poor conditions during open bracket play. Not sure about any of the other Europeans that weren't seeded, but I admittedly doubt it.
On September 17 2011 12:50 gOst wrote: How does Incontrol keep getting invited to poolplay?
same reason drg got into pool play last mlg and MC geot into pool play this time. He got 4th in the first mlg of the year and even though there were no koreans its worth the same amount of points.
It's annoying but like i said its why we don't have to see MC go through the open bracket.
On September 17 2011 12:55 gladsheim wrote: incontrol still in pool play
reaaaaaaaaaally ;/
indeed. -.-
but its kinda ironic that he will not be in pool play anymore in the grand finals at providence when the real money is given out after he was plaguing pool play all season long.
insane brackets incontrol unfortunately will not win a match again but still manage to make pool play in providence really MLG is starting to look like an Arena of Legends. I really don't see any foreigner placing high unless the bracket is heavily in their favor AKA no Koreans to late into the loser bracket.
Providence could be better pending point distribution. But yeah, Orlando is going to be off the hook it looks like. MMA will probably be at providence, but it would have been nice to round this out with and old crowd favorite. He has been a bit shaky since the Super Tournament.
*puts on conspiracy hat* Seems like they want to give Boxer the best chance at winning his pool and getting into Code S.
The Korean invites(Bomber, Boxer, Hongun, July) are seeded separately according to GSL points. In the order from highest to lowest, July, Hongun, Bomber, Boxer with the lowest ranked being the highest seed(17 to 20 respectively)
So it gets rather misleading from here due to how it was arranged. Basically, take out Bomber and Boxer from the top 16 and rearrange the Korean invites in the 17-20th seeds.
*puts on conspiracy hat* Seems like they want to give Boxer the best chance at winning his pool and getting into Code S.
The Korean invites(Bomber, Boxer, Hongun, July) are seeded separately according to GSL points. In the order from highest to lowest, July, Hongun, Bomber, Boxer with the lowest ranked being the highest seed(17 to 20 respectively)
So it gets rather misleading from here due to how it was arranged. Basically, take out Bomber and Boxer from the top 16 and rearrange the Korean invites in the 17-20th seeds.
unless they're the number one seed acc to mlg pointss. then they're number one. would have happened to MMA if he had beaten MVP.
Well Boxer will have to play against a lot of the players anyway if he doesn't win his pool and has to run through the championship losers bracket right?
well I woulden't count Socke out so quickly, he has someincredibly solid PvZ that i think will fare a lot better than expected against agressive zergs like july and DRG.
But seriously, why is incontrol still in pool play? even trimaster beat him, and I mean no offense to the guy but the other seeded players are just a different caliber from him
MLG hates Huk, he always gets the worst group, on the other hand he should be fine.
Group A: I think this is actually Boxer or TLO's group to win. Idra has a shot as well but I've kinda given up hope on him till he goes back to korea and/or fixes his mental issues. A strong open bracket player can take this group though.
Group B: This group is Bomber or Puma's ( Possibly kiwi's if he can be a boss like last mlg) All the matches in this group should be entertaining. Open bracket player will likely struggle in this group.
Group C : This group could honestly go to anyone, solid money says it's Hongun given how solid he is ( and his wide variety of voidray cheeses) but really anything could happen. this is the best pool for an open bracket player to land in.
Group D: Again anyone could win this group, it's stacked with incredibly good players most of whom train in Korea lol. I pity the open bracket player that gets this group ( unless it's like liquid hero)
My hopes I kinda want a July/MC finals or a Hongun/ MC finals
*Cries* No dignitas members makes me super sad but i understand why they aren't there.
OMG that pool D, poor socke! Boxer is in one of the easier groups. Huk again, with 3 PvPs(in a way it's good, cause there are no terrans in that group.) Lets hope mkp does well, if he manges to win is first tourney here it would be epic, but it's a very very tough road, probably get to top 16.
Omg koreans are actually gonna do 'badly' in pool play this time, given that 4/5 are koreans in group D. Or 3 if you don't count Huk. But still... Very excited
It's great that HongUn finally gets the respect he deserves after getting snubbed from the all-star team in favor of players with only a single great result. He's like Clide in that he's always under-the-radar (people STILL think Genius/Tester are better than him), but three GSL top 4s proves that he's consistently good.
On September 17 2011 14:00 andrea20 wrote: It's great that HongUn finally gets the respect he deserves after getting snubbed from the all-star team in favor of players with only a single great result. He's like Clide in that he's always under-the-radar, but three GSL top 4s proves that he's consistently good.
On September 17 2011 13:49 Karliath wrote: Why are there no dignitas players, btw?
Sjow is at Iem NY that weekend while Naniwa and Select will be practicing for blizzcon which is the weekend after.
I'm actually kinda surprised Ret and Sheth opted to go to Orlando just because they risk burning out before blizzcon. Especially Ret who has IPL3 one weekend, then mlg the next then blizzcon, that's gonna be brutal on his body and his condition.
Pool D is clearly the group of death... This tournament looks very promising. Anyone know if IMMvP or IMNesTea will be there? Otherwise they all fighting to be the 2nd best.
wow 3 protoss in group D while none in group A, actually group A is the only one without a protoss. Socke is decent but I don't think he can keep up with Huk and MC. It'd be interesting to see which of the two zergs on group D gets the higher standing, July has improved a lot recently.
I think group A and C are the easiest groups to call, I don't see how Idra, Boxer, Rain, and Hongun wouldn't finish in the top 2 of their groups.
I hope HerO attends. If he makes it through the Open Bracket again, he would be seeded into Group A and has a good chances of winning his group an making it far into the tournament.
On September 17 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: MLG needs to be more flexible, and willing to fix their problems mid-season. I don't see any downside to eliminating and revamping the current point system.
I doubt the players hurt by it would complain.
We would never announce a rule and qualification set and change it mid season. It would not be fair to those that competed at the beginning under those rules.
Next year we are revamping the seeds completely.
meh i see your side here, but it still kinda sucks how it worked out,
I dont know if you even need to change too much to the point system tho.
Next year you wont have people get inflated points because they did well in tourneys without koreans, which is what caused this season to be botched in the first placed
----
Yeah the fact that someone can do well enough to get placed in pool play, and then earn enough points by placing last in pool play to STAY in pool play (because its hard to consistantly get into pool play through open bracket) is kind of dumb. so change that
Oh my god. Just look at group A. I'm afraid that Idra might shoot himself if he doesn't win that group. Its like they let Idra cherry pick his pool. So I guess there will be either a guarenteed foreigner (or Boxer) in the top 6.
I'm guessing the finals will be winner of Bomber-Puma vs winner of pool D. Probably MC, but maybe Huk. July won't top because of DRG's ZvZ, and DRG won't top because of his ZvP. =( I wanna believe though. I just hope the finals isn't another retarded extended series.
On September 17 2011 14:42 Monkeybay wrote: I hope HerO attends. If he makes it through the Open Bracket again, he would be seeded into Group A and has a good chances of winning his group an making it far into the tournament.
Right because what MLG really needs is more Liquid teamkilling.
I don't understand why group D is the hardest.....
Kiwi's group is much harder. Bomber + Puma..... been performing better than MC or DRG lately... really confused why people think group D is the toughest. MC is slumping, DRG hasn't shown any real results so far
On September 17 2011 15:26 Loodah wrote: I don't understand why group D is the hardest.....
Kiwi's group is much harder. Bomber + Puma..... been performing better than MC or DRG lately... really confused why people think group D is the toughest. MC is slumping, DRG hasn't shown any real results so far
Because pool d has 3 code S players, a two time gsl champ and Socke who is probably better than sheth and kiwikaki. Bomber and puma are scary, but the rest of the group doesn't come close to what pool d has.
On September 17 2011 14:42 Monkeybay wrote: I hope HerO attends. If he makes it through the Open Bracket again, he would be seeded into Group A and has a good chances of winning his group an making it far into the tournament.
Right because what MLG really needs is more Liquid teamkilling.
Neither haypro or tlo are winning that group, hero coming in and winning it wouldn't change that and it would put a liquid guy in the top 6(?) so its good. No one is eliminated in group play so its not really a team kill.
On September 17 2011 13:22 shawster wrote: incontrol and machine in pool and hero isn't
this system is reallllly messed up.
Don't forget Demuslim, Trimaster, QXC, HwangSin, and Tyler.
And as for Haypro....sigh...
No offense to QXC or Tyler but I wouldn't put them in that list myself, they were seeded into pool play at the start of the season but dropped out themselves. Since then, Tyler has made it back but subsequently had a hard time in pool play and QXC has yet to make it back into pools. HwangSin had a less than stellar showing at the last(his first?) MLG also.
There are definitely some players that do deserve to be there in-place of others, but that's just the state of the system and it will be changed next year. While Tyler and QXC had the same advantages as inControl and Machine at the start of the year, they were unable to maintain their position so in regards to them, I'm not eager to get up and say, "It's ridiculous that these guys are in the groups but those guys aren't" because they were, they just fell based on poor performances. I don't think they're worse players than the weaker group players, but that's not what I'm referencing, their performance is what resulted in them being dropped out.
On September 17 2011 15:59 Stanlot wrote: Please excuse my ignorance but why is Naniwa and the rest of dignitas not going to be at Orlando?
They're focusing on Korea.
Incorrect Sjow will be at IEM new york that weekend, Naniwa and Select will be in korea but focusing on prepping for blizzcon which is the next weekend ^-^
Nani at least has enough seeding points to be fine for providence so it's not a big deal if he doesn't go. I am actually unsure about if Sjow or Select can fall out of the top 16.
On September 17 2011 15:59 Stanlot wrote: Please excuse my ignorance but why is Naniwa and the rest of dignitas not going to be at Orlando?
They're focusing on Korea.
They are already guaranteed for Providence (which is the main one), so might as well train harder in Korea, train for Code A, train for Blizzcon, etc. instead of travelling so much and wrecking sleep and training regiment.
On September 17 2011 15:26 Loodah wrote: I don't understand why group D is the hardest.....
Kiwi's group is much harder. Bomber + Puma..... been performing better than MC or DRG lately... really confused why people think group D is the toughest. MC is slumping, DRG hasn't shown any real results so far
kiwi's group is so easy to predict that Bomber and Puma will come out on top. But no one knows how group D is gonna end.
On September 17 2011 15:26 Loodah wrote: I don't understand why group D is the hardest.....
Kiwi's group is much harder. Bomber + Puma..... been performing better than MC or DRG lately... really confused why people think group D is the toughest. MC is slumping, DRG hasn't shown any real results so far
Because pool d has 3 code S players, a two time gsl champ and Socke who is probably better than sheth and kiwikaki. Bomber and puma are scary, but the rest of the group doesn't come close to what pool d has.
Kiwi is 8-1 vs Socke in MLGs and Sheth has won against Huk recently. Pool D may be better but not by much.
On September 17 2011 06:53 GoodRamen wrote: wow socke really got it hard =/
I think Kiwi's group is by far the hardest.
I have to Thoroughly disagree! MC 2 time GSL champ one of the most feared protoss players in the world. DRG one of the most feared zerg players in the world. HuK Arguably the best foreign player right now. Julyzerg the legend and outright beast insane aggression/all ins. and Socke the quiet assassin of foreign tournies.
Kiwi's group Has Bomber and Puma.... Though extremely good they will both easily place top 8, that said they are also both going to crush everyone else in their group with ease(Sorry Sheth, you're good but...)
Sorry but I cannot see how anyone could possibly think Kiwi's group is harder?
As surprised as I was by this group D, it was nowhere near the OMFG-ness of when I found out Flash / Jaedong / Bisu / Sea were in the same group.. group D too lawl xD
On September 17 2011 15:26 Loodah wrote: I don't understand why group D is the hardest.....
Kiwi's group is much harder. Bomber + Puma..... been performing better than MC or DRG lately... really confused why people think group D is the toughest. MC is slumping, DRG hasn't shown any real results so far
Because group d has 4 potential MLG champions instead of two.
if huk wins mlg he is the best foreign alive no doubt GO HUK GO and poor socke and incontrol GL to them they have it bad... group A= Boxer cuz everyone knows idrA will GG early groub B = bomber or puma group c= hong un and group D= Huk or MC cuz pvp is a toss up lol toss up
On September 17 2011 13:22 shawster wrote: incontrol and machine in pool and hero isn't
this system is reallllly messed up.
Don't forget Demuslim, Trimaster, QXC, HwangSin, and Tyler.
And as for Haypro....sigh...
PFT, I support haypro. HAYDERS GONNA HAYD. as for incontrol, machine, hero, etc. They deserve to be there (according to MLG rules), so it doesn't matter! If they don't deserve to be there, they'll eventually drop out, then they'll fight it out like Demuslim, tyler, etc.
Pool A: Uhhh MLG are meanies... Putting BoxeR in the same group as those... those other guys. Yeah, he's gonna win that unless he's jetlagged.
Pool B: Damnit MLG you ARE cruel! Puma Vs Bomber coming up >,< I dunno, I guess if the other foreigners are REALLY in shape (not physically, incontrol -_-) they *may* beat a korean there. Never give up hope.
Pool C: If Teamliquid polls tell me anything, people looove to underrate players like HongUn and TOP, that have had really good results but never did anything huge to gain foreigners respect.
Imo, people will be crying sad, salty nerd tears in the LR thread when HongUn takes this group ez
Idra seems to kind of be in a slump but if he pulls himself back up abit he will get 2nd in his group I think. He won't beat boxer he is too far in the slump I think.
pool A i would be dissapointed if it wasnt Boxer followed by Idra Pool B Bomber followed by Puma then kiwikaki Pool C Hongun Followed by Rain Pool D well it will be ahrd, going to go with MC and DRG though but with July and HuK in the group too I really dont think someone will go undeafted in this group at all.. poss best record even being 3-2.... normally someone always goes 4-1 and I suppose we dont know who will be joining from the open bracket, hopefullynot Marineking haha.
Lol this will be the worst mlg ever... I don't know if I will be watching this. The lack of good foreigners is seriously a problem... MLG should invite Nerchio, Stephano, Dimaga, Mana, Kas, or at least make their travel easier, because it is not Incontrol or Haypro who can take games out of koreans ....
On September 17 2011 18:09 kota wrote: I dont get why HongUn is there, alot of lesser known players who would have a better shot at making it through
He's there to prove you wrong His play may not be totally inspiring but he has repeatedly defied critics by advancing further than expected in each GSL.
On September 17 2011 18:09 kota wrote: I dont get why HongUn is there, alot of lesser known players who would have a better shot at making it through
He's there to prove you wrong His play may not be totally inspiring but he has repeatedly defied critics by advancing further than expected in each GSL.
Rumor has it in the prime house that HongUn has been sparring with some top level zergs and he doesn't drop a single game - like... ever... on any map. I don't know if this is some crazy timing attack or a macro style - I'm really interested in it - Because I'm losing hope in PvZ right now
Also I still don't understand how Bomber and Puma being in the same group is somehow easier than group D.
Kiwi's group is easily the best - I don't know how anyone can say otherwise considering previous MLG results and recent results in general.
DRG is great, but he looked very vulnerable last MLG - Maybe July will do something crazy? I don't know, I just think Puma and Bomber are both better than anyone in group D - which is really scary.
Pool A & C are pretty weak compared to the other two. HungUn will roflstomp his pool.... Bomber vs Puma gonna be an interesting match. More koreans gonna come with every mlg. you can see, that they want competition more than price money, since mlg has a really poor price pool compared to many other tournaments these days....
Pool D is just straight up scary. I'm a pretty big Socke fan, but he would have to play the best day of his life to hope to stand a chance in that group, and even then that may not be enough to win it.
i think MLG want to invite puzzle over hongun but because they have invited many slayers before they cant, people will think MLG favoring slayers. they want MKP too but too many terran
This is so insanely stacked, pool D is a nightmare! We need some Ukrainian stars at MLGs if we want a foreign win imo, unless HuK can work his magic through a full weekend.
Would be interesting to see how Nerchio would do in a tournament like this.. ^^ Anyway, I think this might be the most insane MLG yet, hopefully the crowd gets a bit bigger and louder again, it didnt quite live up to the other events last time.. :D
On September 17 2011 19:26 Loodah wrote: Also I still don't understand how Bomber and Puma being in the same group is somehow easier than group D.
Kiwi's group is easily the best - I don't know how anyone can say otherwise considering previous MLG results and recent results in general.
DRG is great, but he looked very vulnerable last MLG - Maybe July will do something crazy? I don't know, I just think Puma and Bomber are both better than anyone in group D - which is really scary.
What makes Pool D so scary, is that it is extreme hard to predict. Pool B has two heavy favourites and if the open bracket player is not a complete beast, one of them will go 4-1, while the other will stay undefeated (probably Bomber).
Pool D however has no clear favourite. You have 3 Code-S players, 1 former GSL champion and one of the best and consistent players the foreigner scene has to offer.
Socke could become very well the deciding factor here. He has become more than once the bane for HuK´s tournament runs and his PvZ is downright scary for foreigner standarts. Maybe he can upset one of the Korean Zergs and even if he doesn´t, what has Socke to lose? Even if he goes 0-5 in group play, he still isn´t out of the tourney and it is really no shame to lose to any of this players.
IMO, Socke can pretty much only win here, because nobody really expects him to pull something off in this MLG. He is the absolute underdog and in sports, this is a pretty comfortable role.
The open bracket this time isn't a huge minefield of Koreans. I'm actually excited for who can potentially make it into the pools. Tyler, Jinro, please make it through!
On September 17 2011 18:09 kota wrote: I dont get why HongUn is there, alot of lesser known players who would have a better shot at making it through
He's there to prove you wrong His play may not be totally inspiring but he has repeatedly defied critics by advancing further than expected in each GSL.
Also they need tosses inn the exchange program. only MC, but would love to switch him with Puzzle But hell, but HongUn is really good if he just playes his best!
FUCK YES JULY IS FINALLY INVITED INTO THE POOLS!!!
AND MC IS BACK!!! BEST MLG EVER!
Also, if Socke gets a decent score he'll be a true hero. I think he can make it, his style is really something special, although his performance is truly inconsistent.
On September 17 2011 20:03 sVnteen wrote: also is drewbie a korean invite WHAT THE F*** he fell out of the pools with going 0-5 2 times in a row and then he gets invited just to go out again?
Drewbie is canadian, not korean...
And he is not invited, he is there becuse of mlg ranking points.
On September 17 2011 20:07 zazone wrote: i predict top 8 korean.
Not hard to predict, the top foreigners aren't there (Nerchio, Select, Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, Sjow, Dimaga, Mana, Kas, Strelok, Whitera).
We can reach one grand conclusion: combine/replace the Korean invite initiative with the European invite initiative. Commence Project rid MLG of Americans. Bow before your new korean/european overlords or pylons or supply depots. Keep the american crowd though. They cheer good.
On September 17 2011 19:26 Loodah wrote: Also I still don't understand how Bomber and Puma being in the same group is somehow easier than group D.
Kiwi's group is easily the best - I don't know how anyone can say otherwise considering previous MLG results and recent results in general.
DRG is great, but he looked very vulnerable last MLG - Maybe July will do something crazy? I don't know, I just think Puma and Bomber are both better than anyone in group D - which is really scary.
Group D is tougher because all its players (probably excepting socke, who might get rolled) are top 5 material, so it's a lot more stacked. Yes group B is tough as well, but its pretty clear that the real competition is between Puma and Bomber, maybe Kiwi can sneak a win against a korean, but with both being 1-1-1'ers it's gonna be hard.
Group B can easily be predicted, Group Death is impossible to predict.
I just "whatthewhat"-ed @ Group D. :O Poor Socke. My favorite Protoss is gonna get killed so hard. Still, DRG and July. So I think that's the group I'll be watching. ;D
On September 17 2011 20:07 zazone wrote: i predict top 8 korean.
Not hard to predict, the top foreigners aren't there (Nerchio, Select, Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, Sjow, Dimaga, Mana, Kas, Strelok, Whitera).
We can reach one grand conclusion: combine/replace the Korean invite initiative with the European invite initiative. Commence Project rid MLG of Americans. Bow before your new korean/european overlords or pylons or supply depots. Keep the american crowd though. They cheer good.
At this point I'm not sure if I'm joking or not.
Yeah MLG should stop inviting Koreans so American fans can watch American players... or they can stick to their model which is providing the best players possible. Of course the Koreans are dominating... they are better. Most people come to watch and enjoy the games - seeing two Koreans play each other is actually significantly more entertaining than seeing foreigners just get destroyed.
MLG is doing a phenomenal job. I just hope the format changes slightly next year which it looks like it will. Props to MLG for providing ridiculously awesome pools - and I hope the foreign players actually perform well
On September 17 2011 20:31 DamNoam wrote: Taking into account this post
On September 17 2011 20:03 sVnteen wrote: wHAAAAAAAT is this
now we have more players from korea than from any other nation dont you think youre overdoing it mlg?
also is drewbie a korean invite WHAT THE F*** he fell out of the pools with going 0-5 2 times in a row and then he gets invited just to go out again?
omg at group d lol
and this post
On September 17 2011 20:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
On September 17 2011 20:07 zazone wrote: i predict top 8 korean.
Not hard to predict, the top foreigners aren't there (Nerchio, Select, Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, Sjow, Dimaga, Mana, Kas, Strelok, Whitera).
We can reach one grand conclusion: combine/replace the Korean invite initiative with the European invite initiative. Commence Project rid MLG of Americans. Bow before your new korean/european overlords or pylons or supply depots. Keep the american crowd though. They cheer good.
At this point I'm not sure if I'm joking or not.
Yeah MLG should stop inviting Koreans so American fans can watch American players... or they can stick to their model which is providing the best players possible. Of course the Koreans are dominating... they are better. Most people come to watch and enjoy the games - seeing two Koreans play each other is actually significantly more entertaining than seeing foreigners just get destroyed.
MLG is doing a phenomenal job. I just hope the format changes slightly next year which it looks like it will. Props to MLG for providing ridiculously awesome pools - and I hope the foreign players actually perform well
I'd add to that, that when koreans play each other, it's not only significantly more entertaining than foreigners being destroyed, it's also a lot more entertaining than foreigners' close games. The level of play is just so much better. I hope korean training for the current EU trainees really pays off.
On September 17 2011 06:54 Choboo wrote: Worst MLG ever. Seriously without Naniwa, Sjow and Select foreigners have no chance. The only European on that list except for the liquid guys is Socke T__T gg wp Koreans...
i watch MLG to see the best players play, best MLG yet
On September 17 2011 19:59 price wrote: if these MLG events keep growing like this, the pool play next year will be all korean :| and all groups will be as packed as D
Wow Incontrol got it amazingly hard yet again. Then theres grp D, which I find to clearly be the easy grp this time around, Socke should consider himself quite lucky.
On September 17 2011 21:54 Seirios wrote: Are you serious? How and why is iNcontrol seeded? :S
Nothing against him but his latest appearances were disastrous to say the least.
It has to do with how many points he's accumulated. He got 4th at Dallas for example. It's quite simple really, wouldn't take a lot of time or energy to find it out.
I still dislike MLG's system. Those groups aren't balanced at all and some players don't deserve their spot. I'm sure open bracket will be extremely stacked again while some lesser players get free spots in an easy group like group A....
TOP 6 Koreans once again can't see anyone beating Bomber,July,PuMa,BoxeR and i think more KR's will join the open bracket like Hero,KONGPrime and maybe others ?
feel sorry for socke, he is such a solid play er and has been doing fantastically lately. Hopefully he can salvage a decent spot in his group so that he can get into pool play again next MLG season. ( not sure if providence will be the same as the regular events )
Poor Socke. I'd be surprised by every map he may win (not trying to bash him, i'm a Socke fanboy, but that's idd the group of death). Group A is a joke compared to this though. Not too happy with the drawings meh :/
On September 17 2011 06:57 WarrickHunt wrote: this is so stacked, depending on drewbie, it could be that not one person living outside korea will get through, and O...M....G Group D
You're joking right? Last I checked IdrA, TLO, an Kiwikaki wernt living in Korea an they're far better then Drewbie so yea definalty thinking your statement is 100% wrong. Good try kid
Incontrol is still 12th in overall points and 4 people didn't even accept the invitation that are above him.
Considering the fact that they had to go down to #28 (Drewbie - who Incontrol actually beat at Raleigh) for the top 16 non-Korean invites, people really shouldn't be surprised.
It's not about who you "want" to see, it's about an objective points system that has been in place all year.
I just had to. Group D looks really terrifying I have to admit. All in all, MLG is slowly taken over by Koreans. I hope foreigners can really step it up this time, but this hope is kind of foolish looking back. I want BoxeR to receive as much if not more hype though. He is such a wonderful personality, the duct tape of eSports!
On September 18 2011 06:16 JayJay_90 wrote: Poor Socke. I'd be surprised by every map he may win (not trying to bash him, i'm a Socke fanboy, but that's idd the group of death). Group A is a joke compared to this though. Not too happy with the drawings meh :/
Group C is much easier as well. Group B is up there, though for Incontrol in particular it will be a nightmare: 2 Koreans, Sheth's PvZ (is incredible, one of the best in the world), and Kikikaki.
Group A: Boxer>Idra>TLO>Haypro>Drewbie Group B: Puma>Bomber>Kiwikaki>Sheth>Incontrol Group C: Ret>Rain>HongUn>Slush>Machine Group D: DRG>July>MC>HuK>Socke
To win it all, either Puma, Bomber or DRG. Maybe July if he has a good day.
Incontrol is still 12th in overall points and 4 people didn't even accept the invitation that are above him.
Considering the fact that they had to go down to #28 (Drewbie - who Incontrol actually beat at Raleigh) for the top 16 non-Korean invites, people really shouldn't be surprised.
It's not about who you "want" to see, it's about an objective points system that has been in place all year.
Yes. It's also a system that gives you a fair amount of points for not winning a single game.
On September 17 2011 06:54 k!llua wrote: Poor socke?
More like poor iNcontroL. He's going to get romped, again.
jaeh but his group is WAY!!! easier then sockes ^^ huk + 3 top koreans = argh + perhaps even marineking from open makes it a happy last place for socke
ps: to many koreans even more with marineking etc in open bracket
there should be the rule taht the 4 invites not gain points so DRG etc would not be seeded automaticly
Incontrol is still 12th in overall points and 4 people didn't even accept the invitation that are above him.
Considering the fact that they had to go down to #28 (Drewbie - who Incontrol actually beat at Raleigh) for the top 16 non-Korean invites, people really shouldn't be surprised.
It's not about who you "want" to see, it's about an objective points system that has been in place all year.
Yes. It's also a system that gives you a fair amount of points for not winning a single game.
He didn't even need those points the 800 from his 4th place would have been enough to get seeded in this one alone even if he skipped all the other ones.
Drewbie benefited a lot more from those free points for losing we could have had hero in the pools if it wasn't for him.
It looks like there are going to be a lot of one-sided series in pool play. Most of these players who are hold overs from one or two decent performances before the koreans arrived don't have a prayer in Orlando.
YES Boxer has easy easy group once again considering it's idra in there and boxer has done well against him throughout the past
lol at pool d, except for socke poor socke
Hongun hurray relatively easy group!
Oh i just realized, is MLG the reason why HongUn wasn't chosen (or rather, refused to accept) to play in the Arena of Legends? (due to lag) But Boxer will still be playing in AoL, so huh o.o
Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
Not sure if this has been mentioned before in the thread but the groups do not align with the seeds as well as they have in the past. I also don't know what the deal with the Korean invites are however I do know that these are definitely true: Incontrol should be in Idra's group, Sheth has been moved, and the other Korean invites have been moved. I don't really want to start a conspiracy because I don't really think it matters that much, but if it was not 'altered' there would have been a lot of team kills for EG.
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
dont worry he wont get into the required place. I would imagine a top 3 of Bomber/DRG/PuMa in no particular order (Bomber is the clear favorite though). July could be 4th or higher if he manages to get a good bracket
I'm going to be driving for around 4 hours to get to Orlando and this is my first MLG. If anyone can reply with a few pointers, what to bring, whether or not it's worth competing as a Platinum player, that would be great. Thanks TL community!!!
On September 18 2011 14:39 TheToaster wrote: I'm going to be driving for around 4 hours to get to Orlando and this is my first MLG. If anyone can reply with a few pointers, what to bring, whether or not it's worth competing as a Platinum player, that would be great. Thanks TL community!!!
Well you are definitely not going to win the tournament as a platinum player. But if you were to get lucky and have good cheese you get make it a few rounds in the open bracket. Although, I thought the competitor passes were sold out?
On September 18 2011 14:34 qwazar wrote: Not sure if this has been mentioned before in the thread but the groups do not align with the seeds as well as they have in the past. I also don't know what the deal with the Korean invites are however I do know that these are definitely true: Incontrol should be in Idra's group, Sheth has been moved, and the other Korean invites have been moved. I don't really want to start a conspiracy because I don't really think it matters that much, but if it was not 'altered' there would have been a lot of team kills for EG.
There is no conspiracy, the graphics in the OP are just misleading. Bomber and BoxeR aren't seeded by their MLG Points, as invitees they are seeded separately by their GSL-Points, with the highest ranking player to group D, and the lowest ranking player going to group A. So basicly Bomber isn't seed MLG 7 but seed GSL 3.
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
Maybe they want to *gasp*, give the foreigners a chance at getting Code S.
I love how you act like there aren't foreigners in the tournament though.
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
This doesn't quite make sense to me; if the Code S players weren't invited then it would be even easier for Boxer to regain Code S (though I think they said that they don't let Korean players get the ride to Code S but instead give it to the highest foreigner?)
Now if they did invite all Code S players, then Boxer would have to work his way up through them to get to Code S.
btw i love how they keep inviting Boxer, they really want him to get back to Code S eh jkjk
but please boxer don't surprise us and somehow do bad but seeing as you're the most experienced programer, we probably don't have to worry about that
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
dont worry he wont get into the required place. I would imagine a top 3 of Bomber/DRG/PuMa in no particular order (Bomber is the clear favorite though). July could be 4th or higher if he manages to get a good bracket
The highest ranked non Code S player is the one who wins the Code S spot. Bomber/DRG/July can all nab top 3 but Boxer would still get the Code S spot if he was ranked 4th.
The biggest contenders for this MLG's Code S spot other than Boxer would arguably be MC/PuMa.
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
dont worry he wont get into the required place. I would imagine a top 3 of Bomber/DRG/PuMa in no particular order (Bomber is the clear favorite though). July could be 4th or higher if he manages to get a good bracket
The highest ranked non Code S player is the one who wins the Code S spot. Bomber/DRG/July can all nab top 3 but Boxer would still get the Code S spot if he was ranked 4th.
The biggest contenders for this MLG's Code S spot other than Boxer would arguably be MC/PuMa.
No, Code S MUST go to one in the top 3, or NONE AT ALL.
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
dont worry he wont get into the required place. I would imagine a top 3 of Bomber/DRG/PuMa in no particular order (Bomber is the clear favorite though). July could be 4th or higher if he manages to get a good bracket
The highest ranked non Code S player is the one who wins the Code S spot. Bomber/DRG/July can all nab top 3 but Boxer would still get the Code S spot if he was ranked 4th.
The biggest contenders for this MLG's Code S spot other than Boxer would arguably be MC/PuMa.
No, Code S MUST go to one in the top 3, or NONE AT ALL.
Yep, I stand corrected. I guess Boxer needs to get into top 3 then. But assuming if all the top 3 spots in Orlando are taken up by Code S players, how will this affect the up/down groups for the next GSL?
EDIT: Hm, this link (http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/6529) says otherwise:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
On September 18 2011 14:31 RaiKageRyu wrote: Sigh, I just realized yet again. ALL of the invites have Code S already except for Boxer. Come on MLG, you gotta stop inviting Code S players except for the returning champion. Gotta make that Code S spot more competitive with multiple vying players for it. If it wasn't for some players coming in on their own accord(MC, PUMA), Boxer would have a very good chance of regaining Code S. And at his current level of play that's feels like a cheat towards all the other players that legitimately climbed their way into Code S.
dont worry he wont get into the required place. I would imagine a top 3 of Bomber/DRG/PuMa in no particular order (Bomber is the clear favorite though). July could be 4th or higher if he manages to get a good bracket
The highest ranked non Code S player is the one who wins the Code S spot. Bomber/DRG/July can all nab top 3 but Boxer would still get the Code S spot if he was ranked 4th.
The biggest contenders for this MLG's Code S spot other than Boxer would arguably be MC/PuMa.
No, Code S MUST go to one in the top 3, or NONE AT ALL.
Yep, I stand corrected. I guess Boxer needs to get into top 3 then. But assuming if all the top 3 spots in Orlando are taken up by Code S players, how will this affect the up/down groups for the next GSL?
EDIT: Hm, this link (http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/6529) says otherwise:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
You have to be top 3. Mlg lee confirmed this during Raleigh. And if no mlg player gets it I believe its up for grabs in the up and down matches, not completely sure though.
While i agree that Group D is going to be the toughest group i would not really count the difference between group A and B that big. Although it might have something to do with me still rooting for Boxer...
Prepare to witness some world class brie with players like HongUn, MKP, and July there. I should buy myself a bottle of vintage to enjoy it all the more.
how the hell does incholesterol still get into the pool stages when he was like 1 win from 7 last mlg and i think 2 from 7 the time before yet he's still ranked 8th
On September 18 2011 20:09 killerbob wrote: how the hell does incholesterol still get into the pool stages when he was like 1 win from 7 last mlg and i think 2 from 7 the time before yet he's still ranked 8th
You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard lol
But yeah it is a good question, not like he has won a lot so how is he still in pools bracket?
If this keeps up, in 1 year pool play will be all Koreans plus Naniwa, Idra, Select and Kiwi... This is really getting out of hand. Easy money and a guaranteed Code S seed is like the holy grail for Koreans.
On September 18 2011 20:09 killerbob wrote: how the hell does incholesterol still get into the pool stages when he was like 1 win from 7 last mlg and i think 2 from 7 the time before yet he's still ranked 8th
You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard lol
But yeah it is a good question, not like he has won a lot so how is he still in pools bracket?
I think you get "points" on how good you place in the previous MLG? I'm not quite sure tho..
On September 18 2011 20:09 killerbob wrote: how the hell does incholesterol still get into the pool stages when he was like 1 win from 7 last mlg and i think 2 from 7 the time before yet he's still ranked 8th
Despite losing 0-5 in groups he still managed to win match/es in the championship bracket, which establishes him as a stronger player than the one he defeated, gaining him more points than people who failed to beat players at this stage in the tournament. This mitigates the degradation of his rank a lot and with good reason, until a more dynamic system is introduced. He also placed 6th once.
how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
Group A : Normally i'd say Idra, but he's been playing so horribly for a long long time, that i am gonna go with Boxer on this 1
Group B: There is no freaking way Incontrol is gonna take a game from any1 in there... And in Puma vs Bomber...i'd go with Puma
Group C: Ret or HungUn. Ret if he comes prepared.
Group D: Group of Death LoL....Any1 can take this.... Most people will probably call DRG to win it, but since there are no T's...it might not happen ^^
On September 18 2011 21:23 Nomad- wrote: wow group D will be interesting. I think July is the favourite for top spot? It'll probably come down to the ZvZ anyhow.
I wouldn't call July the favourite, I wouldn't actually call anybody the favourite in that group. It's pretty damn hard to predict.
Group A will be won by BoxeR, pretty easily I'd say.
Group B, PuMa or Bomber, obviously. Cannot wait for them to have their Bo3, I just wish it could be a bo7. <3
Group C, I say HongUn, but possibly Rain or Ret.
Group D, I can't predict, but put a gun to my head and I'll say MC. You can say MC's struggling, but I think protoss is struggling more than MC is, and there are three protosses in his group.
I see DongRaeGu dropping a series or two to the protosses in there. Socke is good but not good enough to get first, and I don't see July getting first either. MC or possibly HuK will clinch first I think.
Pretty worrying how few strong foreigners are attending this MLG and how many Koreans are. Very little non-North America/Korean representation, unless a bunch of them are turning up for the open bracket.
Ret's probably Europe's best hope. Socke's great but thats a horrible group to fight through. Maybe the liquids TLO, Haypro and Jinro (presuming he attends through open) can raise there game. And theres always hope demuslim can blitz his way into pool play.
Who the hell decides that 3 Koreans, a code S foreigner and one of the top foreigner get in one pool, while pool A is a guy recovering from an injury, someone in a total slump, one fan favorite Korean, a guy with no results in SC2 at all and drewbie who hasn't performed since 2010?
Seriously, I want to know why this is so retardedly stacked. I feel like the people from MLG need someone with a better feel for current player level when they decide on these groups. Especially since the pools still meet eachother later in the bracket, without ever meeting people from the other pools unless they make it to top 6+ (A faces D exclusively and C faces B exclusively, right?)
The fact that more and more Koreans are showing up means that the competition is getting that much more serious.
Not to call out any names, but when pretty much non-competitive players were being seeded into pool play, it just made the games look terrible. Now we can expect everyone to pretty much play well, and anyone who doesn't is in danger of losing their spot to someone noticably better.
Look at these brackets and tell me it isn't hard to pick a top 8. You've got Bomber, DRG, Puma, MC, July, HuK, Boxer, Rain, HongUn, Ret, Socke, Kiwi, IdrA, and everyone else who consistently places well.
I definitely think the skill gap is closing, would have loved to have Thorzain back, after how amazing he played at Dreamhack. It's inspiring to see foreigners play that well, after an age of Korean isolationism.
On September 18 2011 22:18 HoldenR wrote: Who the hell decides that 3 Koreans, a code S foreigner and one of the top foreigner get in one pool, while pool A is a guy recovering from an injury, someone in a total slump, one fan favorite Korean, a guy with no results in SC2 at all and drewbie who hasn't performed since 2011?
Seriously, I want to know why this is so retardedly stacked. I feel like the people from MLG need someone with a better feel for current player level when they decide on these groups. Especially since the pools still meet eachother later in the bracket, without ever meeting people from the other pools unless they make it to top 6+ (A faces D exclusively and C faces B exclusively, right?)
They're decided by seed. Have you never watched an MLG before?
On September 18 2011 22:19 two.watup wrote: The fact that more and more Koreans are showing up means that the competition is getting that much more serious.
Not to call out any names, but when pretty much non-competitive players were being seeded into pool play, it just made the games look terrible. Now we can expect everyone to pretty much play well, and anyone who doesn't is in danger of losing their spot to someone noticably better.
Look at these brackets and tell me it isn't hard to pick a top 8. You've got Bomber, DRG, Puma, MC, July, HuK, Boxer, Rain, HongUn, Ret, Socke, Kiwi, IdrA, and everyone else who consistently places well.
I definitely think the skill gap is closing, would have loved to have Thorzain back, after how amazing he played at Dreamhack. It's inspiring to see foreigners play that well, after an age of Korean isolationism.
On September 18 2011 22:18 HoldenR wrote: Who the hell decides that 3 Koreans, a code S foreigner and one of the top foreigner get in one pool, while pool A is a guy recovering from an injury, someone in a total slump, one fan favorite Korean, a guy with no results in SC2 at all and drewbie who hasn't performed since 2011?
Seriously, I want to know why this is so retardedly stacked. I feel like the people from MLG need someone with a better feel for current player level when they decide on these groups. Especially since the pools still meet eachother later in the bracket, without ever meeting people from the other pools unless they make it to top 6+ (A faces D exclusively and C faces B exclusively, right?)
They're decided by seed. Have you never watched an MLG before?
Yes, I have. But the way they've decided their seeds makes no sense. Scroll up to see the A1 > B2 > C3 > D4 > D5 > C6 > B7 > A8 one.
Either way, the MLG seeding system is completely broken. This is destroying pool play, because the fact is the games in group D are two levels above group A.
On September 18 2011 20:56 akalarry wrote: how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
There is nothing random in the seeds.
RowA: 3 4 5 8 RowB: 13 11 10 9 ETC.
A normal seed by Ranking Position. You must quit the player that dont participate (1 Naniwa, 2 MMA, 6 Sjow, 7 Select, 12 MVP, etc.).
So each group have one player from 3-8 ranking, one player from 9-13 ranking, etc. In both directions for a equally difficult.
On September 18 2011 20:56 akalarry wrote: how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
There is nothing random in the seeds.
RowA: 3 4 5 8 RowB: 13 11 10 9 ETC.
A normal seed by Ranking Position. You must quit the player that dont participate (1 Naniwa, 2 MMA, 6 Sjow, 7 Select, 12 MVP, etc.).
So each group have one player from 3-8 ranking, one player from 9-13 ranking, etc. In both directions for a equally difficult.
Also, separate the Korean invites, they are seeded via GSL points, A to D, lowest to highest respectively.
The ranking is a joke.. the pools so unevenly distributed due to that... I mean look at group A with TLO, Haypro, Idra and Drewibie??? somehow I see post-korea Drewbie winning that group handily, but he wouldn't take a game off a single player in group D.. quite unfair imho.
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Because he is on EG
EG = $$$
because EG's money has anything to do with MLG's point system
How does sending your whole roster to every event to pick up valuable seeding points (when there are no koreans), in a system that rewards consistent attendence, not equate a team's wealth to MLG points?
On September 18 2011 20:56 akalarry wrote: how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
There is nothing random in the seeds.
RowA: 3 4 5 8 RowB: 13 11 10 9 ETC.
A normal seed by Ranking Position. You must quit the player that dont participate (1 Naniwa, 2 MMA, 6 Sjow, 7 Select, 12 MVP, etc.).
So each group have one player from 3-8 ranking, one player from 9-13 ranking, etc. In both directions for a equally difficult.
well incontrol is rank 12/seeded 8 (while haypro is rank 13/seeded 9). by what you're saying, incontrol should be in row b, and not row c
in addition sheth, seeded 11th (rank 16 mlg) is in the fourth row, which I would think goes to ppl seeded 13-16th
On September 18 2011 20:56 akalarry wrote: how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
There is nothing random in the seeds.
RowA: 3 4 5 8 RowB: 13 11 10 9 ETC.
A normal seed by Ranking Position. You must quit the player that dont participate (1 Naniwa, 2 MMA, 6 Sjow, 7 Select, 12 MVP, etc.).
So each group have one player from 3-8 ranking, one player from 9-13 ranking, etc. In both directions for a equally difficult.
Also, separate the Korean invites, they are seeded via GSL points, A to D, lowest to highest respectively.
koreans are seeded via mlg points, except for july/hongun as they came through invites and don't have high enough mlg points.
I really hope that TLO can do good in this group. Group D Seems to be the group of death this time around. This seems to be decent groups nethertheless :D
On September 17 2011 08:47 MooLen wrote: dont misunderstand me but why is incontrol still in the pools???
Because he is on EG
EG = $$$
because EG's money has anything to do with MLG's point system
How does sending your whole roster to every event to pick up valuable seeding points (when there are no koreans), in a system that rewards consistent attendence, not equate a team's wealth to MLG points?
It's only a valid equation if incontrol wouldn't have gone to these events if he were on another team, or in no team at all, or if it's true that EG sends their whole roster in every case. So in other words: It's not.
On September 18 2011 20:56 akalarry wrote: how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
There is nothing random in the seeds.
RowA: 3 4 5 8 RowB: 13 11 10 9 ETC.
A normal seed by Ranking Position. You must quit the player that dont participate (1 Naniwa, 2 MMA, 6 Sjow, 7 Select, 12 MVP, etc.).
So each group have one player from 3-8 ranking, one player from 9-13 ranking, etc. In both directions for a equally difficult.
Also, separate the Korean invites, they are seeded via GSL points, A to D, lowest to highest respectively.
koreans are seeded via mlg points, except for july/hongun as they came through invites and don't have high enough mlg points.
- MLG will invite four Korean pro players to each Pro Circuit Live Competition. - These players will be placed directly into the Championship Pools, one into each Pool. - Their placement in the Pools will be determined by their GSL rank. - All travel and accomodation expenses for these players will be provided by MLG. - For MLG Columbus, we will also be inviting a player from the CSN tournament, currently in progress. This player will be seeded into the Open Bracket, and their travel and accomodation expenses will be covered by CSN.
Besides, if we follow MLG points, Bomber and incontrol(ranked 7th and 8th respectively would not appear in the same group)
After MLG Columbus: The Pools will always contain the Top 20 players (four invited GSL pro players, and 16 top-ranked MLG players) and four undefeated Open Bracket players, for a total of 24. The 20 players who start in Pool Play on Friday will be seeded according to their Pro Circuit Rank Points. No matter what their MLG seed is, the invited GSL pro players will be placed in Pools based on their GSL rank. The #1 ranked GSL pro player will always be placed into Pool D, etc. In the National Championship, where there are no Pools, the GSL pro players will be seeded based on their MLG Rank Points.
On September 18 2011 20:56 akalarry wrote: how were the pools created? i looked at the seeding, and if they based it off that, it looks kind of random... then again i'm not too familiar with different kinds of ways you can create pools from rankings.
There is nothing random in the seeds.
RowA: 3 4 5 8 RowB: 13 11 10 9 ETC.
A normal seed by Ranking Position. You must quit the player that dont participate (1 Naniwa, 2 MMA, 6 Sjow, 7 Select, 12 MVP, etc.).
So each group have one player from 3-8 ranking, one player from 9-13 ranking, etc. In both directions for a equally difficult.
well incontrol is rank 12/seeded 8 (while haypro is rank 13/seeded 9). by what you're saying, incontrol should be in row b, and not row c
in addition sheth, seeded 11th (rank 16 mlg) is in the fourth row, which I would think goes to ppl seeded 13-16th
that's why it looks random to me
Now that you say you are true... Incontrol should be in Haypro spot. That confused me.
Really horrible in how bad Euro representation has become at these MLGs. I'm sure it will be great tournament, but it's missing out on a huge amount of talent.
I do this everytime the pools are released, but until it stops happening, I will continue doing this to show my disapproval in the system.
Why are iNcontrol and Machine still in pool play? Nobody wants to watch them, please put them in the open bracket where they belong. After they both lose all their sets this MLG, and the only reason that they possibly place top 20 is because they are already in pool play will we still have to watch them in pool play next MLG too?
Anyways though, not sure what MLG was thinking when they put July, MC, and DRG all in the same group, doesn't take a genius to know that's a bad idea. At least move one of them to group A. But I guess that's a small thing, this MLG should be awesome just like all the others, and I'm definitely looking forward to it.
there's really not much incentive for Euros to come to MLG anymore if they already have a spot for the finals, top prize is only 5k which will definitely go to a Korean. Non Koreans will be lucky to break top5.
Does NOBODY understand that they have a fixed system?! Yes, it's bad that some players still have spots, but it would be much worse if they just decided to kick them because people are getting annoyed. They've already admitted that the system has a problem and that it will change for 2012, and that should be that. And people are still asking why certain players are in certain pools, when we know that it is done by a mathematical system. Gah. Anyway. Pool D eh? That's a bitch, what were they thinking?
On September 19 2011 00:14 Tomfour wrote: I do this everytime the pools are released, but until it stops happening, I will continue doing this to show my disapproval in the system.
Why are iNcontrol and Machine still in pool play? Nobody wants to watch them, please put them in the open bracket where they belong. After they both lose all their sets this MLG, and the only reason that they possibly place top 20 is because they are already in pool play will we still have to watch them in pool play next MLG too?
Anyways though, not sure what MLG was thinking when they put July, MC, and DRG all in the same group, doesn't take a genius to know that's a bad idea. At least move one of them to group A. But I guess that's a small thing, this MLG should be awesome just like all the others, and I'm definitely looking forward to it.
i also laugh at when incontrol, haypro, machine and tlo are constantly in pool play. however it's just that the skill gap is SO huge in mlg that there will be relatively bad players in pool play no matter what. who's gonna replace incontrol and machine? drewbie and moonan were also your perennial pool players. who's after them? tyler, cruncher... trimaster.. kawaiirice.. they'd all get destroyed in pool play too. i can only think of vibe, major, and qxc that would do better, but it's still about rankings, and they are ranked behind players like trimaster. even then... qxc hasn't done well at any mlg so would he really deserve pool play.
not enough competitive players is what i think. the shitty system they use just masks that imo.
Seems like a walkover win for Korea... Perhaps Ret or HuK can take a match/games off of them but anything less than top-6 Koreans would be quite embarassing for them to be honest :/
Looks like fun. MLG should go back from pool play to standard double elimination format. I enjoyed it much more.
I don't wanna watch some of the pool games cause the player gaps (I am not gonna name them) are huge. It's so annoying watching them getting disintegrated and watch the interview with their promise of real hard training (with no significant improvement next MLG).
Group D is going to be intense, Socke was probably like FML when he saw the groups. But ya Incontrol is probably going to get 0-5 again. Hopefully MKP gets into Group D. That would officially make it the hardest group ever.
On September 18 2011 23:27 MCDayC wrote: Really horrible in how bad Euro representation has become at these MLGs. I'm sure it will be great tournament, but it's missing out on a huge amount of talent.
It is because of the relatively small prize pool not worth it for them unless its invite.
Hm, I'm excited to see Drewbie after his time spent in Korea. Group D is unbelievably brutal for any of the players in it so it's a good thing that MLG does the format it does instead of immediately eliminating two players from the group coming out of group play. Hopefully in upcoming MLGs the seeds will finally start to work themselves out so that the best players are on top and the groups don't end up so stacked.
I love MLGs so much, any weekend with an MLG is like ohmygodz to me.
Wow. Pool D is the group of mega-death. That group is stacked to the hilt.
I'm predicting:
Pool A: The Emperor first, IdrA second Pool B: Puma first over Bomber, Bomber second Pool C: Rain and HongUn (Probably Rain over HongUn, though I haven't seen HongUn play recently.) Pool D: DRG and MC, with MC second. I'd love for HuK to take it, but that group is just too scary. I'll be crossing my fingers though!
Sorry for spoilng the result, the pools will end in the following orders:
Pool A------- Pool B------ Pool C--------- Pool D 1 Idra------ Bomber------ Ret---------------- DRG 2 TLO------ Puma-------- HongUn------------- MC 3 Boxer------ Sheth--------- Rain------------ July 4 hayprO------ Kiwikaki------ Slush------------- Huk 5 Drewbie------ Incontrol------ Machine------- Socke
On September 19 2011 09:15 nordlyset wrote: Sorry for spoilng the result, the pools will end in the following orders:
Pool A------- Pool B------ Pool C--------- Pool D 1 Idra------ Bomber------ Ret---------------- DRG 2 TLO------ Puma-------- HongUn------------- MC 3 Boxer------ Sheth--------- Rain------------ July 4 hayprO------ Kiwikaki------ Slush------------- Huk 5 Drewbie------ Incontrol------ Machine------- Socke
Thought you were seriously for a second, then I saw you put Idra first and TLO over boxer rofl
I'm finding it hard to get excited for MLG anymore. Announcing the Korean invites and which Koreans are coming on their own is a lot like announcing the winners.
A. Boxer, IdrA B. Puma, Bomber C. HongUn, Rain D. DRG, MC
On September 19 2011 20:15 ABAH wrote: poor incontrol. looks like another group whitewash. Group D looks epic. Every one of those games will be unmissable.
Let's just hope MLG makes sure they are not missed.
hope boxer gets it this time! he stomped idra hard last time, so he should take 1st place in his group. and maybe TLO manages to grab the second spot. <3
On September 19 2011 14:08 Greggle wrote: I'm finding it hard to get excited for MLG anymore. Announcing the Korean invites and which Koreans are coming on their own is a lot like announcing the winners.
A. Boxer, IdrA B. Puma, Bomber C. HongUn, Rain D. DRG, MC
Well the more Koreans are coming, the more possible winners are attending^^ cuz tbh, im not sure who is gonna take it this time - although my pick would actually be Bomber (again). Def a Korean (not MC, not BoxeR, not MKP)
How on earth can machine still be in poolplay....... Can't he just drop out of it already... quite sure once he gets thrown out once he will never be able to get to.poolplay again with current field of.competitors.
Pool A = Easy for Idra and Boxer Pool B = A bit more balanced but Bomber and Puma will almost definately get through Pool C = Seems to be the weakest group Pool D = WTF, I feel sorry for Socke
On September 20 2011 01:46 Cain0 wrote: Pool A = Easy for Idra and Boxer Pool B = A bit more balanced but Bomber and Puma will almost definately get through Pool C = Seems to be the weakest group Pool D = WTF, I feel sorry for Socke
On September 20 2011 01:33 Mithriel wrote: How on earth can machine still be in poolplay....... Can't he just drop out of it already... quite sure once he gets thrown out once he will never be able to get to.poolplay again with current field of.competitors.
Don't be so harsh!
It's quite a lot to ask of someone to drop out of their spot once they've got it.
It's like that dude that gave WhiteRa two wins to make up for him showing up late.
Doing the right thing can come at great expense to these guys, especially when they're trying to hang in MLG and actually make a career out of being a progamer, it could be the last gasp for a couple of these guys, and I sure as heck wouldn't give it up either. Neither would you.
On September 19 2011 09:15 nordlyset wrote: Sorry for spoilng the result, the pools will end in the following orders:
Pool A------- Pool B------ Pool C--------- Pool D 1 Idra------ Bomber------ Ret---------------- DRG 2 TLO------ Puma-------- HongUn------------- MC 3 Boxer------ Sheth--------- i Rain------------ July 4 hayprO------ Kiwikaki------ Slush------------- Huk 5 Drewbie------ Incontrol------ Machine------- Socke
Thought you were seriously for a second, then I saw you put Idra first and TLO over boxer rofl
What are you laughing at? i am serious you imbecile. I think idra definitely gonna win the group. second one is hard for me, haypro boxer and tlo can all get second so i gamble on TLO. Now whats your prediction asshole and lets compare when the groups are played. you fucking monkey.
Sometimes I think MLG is trolling the fuck out of some teams and players with the way groups are selected. Incontrol always gets paired up with a teammate and Huk having to play MC is pretty funny!!
Groups B and D are so sick! Can't wait for this event!
for a swede-fanboy like me this is easily the most boring MLG this far... Sjow, Nani not going, ThorZain won't go either so it's just HayprO and possibly Jinro, although i doubt it
Attention is on the pool, but the Open Bracket is going to be stacked again. Liquid'HerO having to fight his was back in to pool play. Apparently WhiteRa is going to be in the open bracket as well. :O
On September 21 2011 09:47 Lasbike wrote: I fear it's gonna be like last MLGs...Those 8 koreans in pool are SO going to be in the..well, top8 of the tournament.
I don't think so, isn't it that only 2 from each group can advance? If that's the case, how can the final 8 consist of all Koreans if Group D has 3 koreans and only 2 can advance?
Its a shame how ignorant people are to the ways of MLG group-selection methods. Its all on Liquipedia, rankings updated immediately after each event. The fact that DRG is coming and MC making a comeback is just a (un?)lucky coincidence, not fault of MLG
OT; FXOpen announced they'd send 3 players to Orlando, is this still true, in that case who'll be sending? With so much success recently (Oz, Leenock, asd, Lucky & GuMiho aside from captain Choya) im anxious to see who they consider top3 internally.
Before you decide, we have a change to announce. Unfortunately, we have just been informed that Socke and DongRaeGu will be unable to attend MLG Orlando. They have been replaced in the Pools by the next two most highly-seeded players, who are none other than LiquidHero and LiquidTyler. Great news for Team Liquid—and for Protoss fans.
Sad that those two don't get to attend but Tyler and Hero in the pools makes me muchos happy!
Before you decide, we have a change to announce. Unfortunately, we have just been informed that Socke and DongRaeGu will be unable to attend MLG Orlando. They have been replaced in the Pools by the next two most highly-seeded players, who are none other than LiquidHero and LiquidTyler. Great news for Team Liquid—and for Protoss fans.
Sad that those two don't get to attend but Tyler and Hero in the pools makes me muchos happy!
Nothing against him personally, according to the seeds he deserves it, still, i have trouble that people like him constantly block pool play because they attend every MLG. GL nonetheless ~
Sucks that DRG and Socke had to drop out. BUT Thank god July was put in Group D and HongUn wasn't when the groups were made. I can't even imagine what a pure protoss group would have been like o_o
Anyway I was interested to see what the groups would have looked like if DRG and Socke withdrew before the group were drawn. Hopefully I did this right ^_^ + Show Spoiler [Link to image of bracket inside] +
Those would have been some interesting groups ^_^ Except for the whole 3 Liquid in Group A and 3 EG in Group D
EPT![[image loading]](http://wordpress.tools.majorleaguegaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/orlando_sc2_pools.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wordpress.tools.majorleaguegaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/orlando_sc2_roster.jpg)
Holy shit... Group D.... Group of Death....
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2SmMF.gif)
I dont even mlg all my rage
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W2viP.png)
