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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 01:02:00
September 17 2011 00:59 GMT
#521
On September 17 2011 09:44 ButtCraft wrote:
My average over the last 10 games is 77.4 which puts me on the high end of Master League according to his scale.


-1000 pt master


Pretty accurate analysis, I would say. Even more evidence that macro is the largest difference between good and bad players.


i agree with the this for terran (bio play).
but: the warpgate mechanic lets you have overmins automatically since you hardly can spend all minerals - in lategame, even with 30 gateways you will get to 2k/1k or so constantly.
as zerg, you cannot spend all minerals in most cases since you leak gas. Same goes for terran mech.

therefore, i do not agree overmins/income are the only factors to "macro"
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
mosestoazis
Profile Joined February 2011
United States4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 01:13:12
September 17 2011 00:59 GMT
#522
redacted for serious posting at a joke post
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 01:00:55
September 17 2011 01:00 GMT
#523
On September 17 2011 09:59 mosestoazis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 09:30 Jaeger wrote:
Are those ingame minutes or real minutes on that chart?
Ret gets 80 drones by 5 minutes? If that's in game minutes 14/13 gets ling speed at around 5 minutes.


i've seen him fully saturate a couple bases in that time, and if you're droning that hard you're going to lose/rebuild a bunch defending early pressure


again, it was a fun post. next time, i make it more obvious or just dont post such stuff. sry
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
September 17 2011 01:02 GMT
#524
On September 17 2011 09:38 tshred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 09:06 ScrubS wrote:
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?



It's just an indicator of how well you spend your money. There are other hidden factors for macro that can't be calculated mathematically such as expansion timings, worker saturation compared to the number of bases, number of production facilities, etc. These other factors affect your macro in addition to how well you spend your money.

To determine if your macro is good enough, you'll need to examine some information about your games. If you are below diamond league, then for the most part you could still work on macro. For the games that you lost, compare your income to your opponents. If you have a high SQ, but your income is lower than your opponent, then you still need to work on your macro. If your income is about the same or greater than your opponent and you still lost the game, then there was probably some decision making or micro error that might've cost you the game.


Could an equation be made to factor the length of the game into the SQ calculation?

I'm not a mathematician, but it seems to me that we could use the data in the game to formulate an expected income at a given time in the game. So if we look at the numbers and it shows that GMs average an income of 1350 at 12 minutes, but Gold players average an income of 950 at 12 minutes. It could highlight a weakness in Gold macro and affect the SQ negatively. So a Gold player with a really high SQ at 15 minutes because they're 4-gating for the whole game til max, would actually have their SQ drop because they aren't generating an expected income.

Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
September 17 2011 01:04 GMT
#525
Just got home and started going through some of my recent games plugging in numbers.

I should focus on macro I guess.

I'm at 955 Master right now and my average score for games longer than 6-7 minutes is ~65.

Not only is that low for masters in general, it's below the average for Diamond.

I suck at macro @@
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
vohne
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines197 Posts
September 17 2011 01:04 GMT
#526
You sir deserve a medal! This is one of the best TL posts I have read ever, I am now calculating my SQ!
TolEranceNA
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada434 Posts
September 17 2011 01:10 GMT
#527
Before school year - 83 average mid master
After school year - 63 average

As many people have stated, school is definitely a cause for skill degradation.
Arotsis:"Nestea, what do you think about Zerg?" Nestea:"...Sad."
Wasteweiser
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada522 Posts
September 17 2011 01:22 GMT
#528
Amazing thread, very good analysis!
Obitus.243
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
September 17 2011 01:34 GMT
#529
I'm confused. I just input my last 10 games into excel with this formula.
I received a mean score of 69, Median of 74, with a Deviation from Mean of 10.25
Meaning, as I read the chart, I should be about somewhere in the middle of Master league.

I'm low plat.

What gives?

My thoughts are that the formula, as noted by other posters, doesn't include Game Length and/or Worker Count into it's calculations. I'm not skilled enough in math to rework the formula (I think), but if you could somehow do this, I'd love to see what it spits out, then.

Otherwise, maybe I'm just an outlier and my main problems lie someplace other than macro.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
September 17 2011 01:34 GMT
#530
On September 17 2011 09:59 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 09:44 ButtCraft wrote:
My average over the last 10 games is 77.4 which puts me on the high end of Master League according to his scale.


-1000 pt master


Pretty accurate analysis, I would say. Even more evidence that macro is the largest difference between good and bad players.


i agree with the this for terran (bio play).
but: the warpgate mechanic lets you have overmins automatically since you hardly can spend all minerals - in lategame, even with 30 gateways you will get to 2k/1k or so constantly.
as zerg, you cannot spend all minerals in most cases since you leak gas. Same goes for terran mech.

therefore, i do not agree overmins/income are the only factors to "macro"

Yeah, Protoss and Zerg will have more overmins than Terran because both have mechanics that make supply in bursts where as Terran can queue up everything
SDream
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Brazil896 Posts
September 17 2011 01:43 GMT
#531
Awesome thread, I will keep track of my SQ from now on lol

My last 10 games:

70,9 won
70,5 won
57,8 won
74,5 won
51,5 lost
60,7 lost
72 lost
63,4 won
52,7 won
60,5 won

Average> 63,45

I am low diamond, so it seems just right.

-------------
If this works indeed, and it seems to work, then we can finally calculate what is the exact difference in skill between Americas, Koreans, Europeans and Pros *-*

DO IT!
stanik
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada213 Posts
September 17 2011 01:45 GMT
#532
On September 17 2011 10:34 Reithan wrote:
I'm confused. I just input my last 10 games into excel with this formula.
I received a mean score of 69, Median of 74, with a Deviation from Mean of 10.25
Meaning, as I read the chart, I should be about somewhere in the middle of Master league.

I'm low plat.

What gives?

My thoughts are that the formula, as noted by other posters, doesn't include Game Length and/or Worker Count into it's calculations. I'm not skilled enough in math to rework the formula (I think), but if you could somehow do this, I'd love to see what it spits out, then.

Otherwise, maybe I'm just an outlier and my main problems lie someplace other than macro.



If you stay on 1 base and keep your money really low you will end up with a pretty good score even though in reality you'd have pretty terrible macro.

My guess would be that you don't expand nearly enough and that you stop making workers and or are very spotty with your worker production.

I suggest checking your workers produced and compare it to the chart the OP provided. It might be telling. Let us know if you figure it out.
RusHXceL
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1004 Posts
September 17 2011 01:47 GMT
#533
you have a lot of free time OP.
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
September 17 2011 01:55 GMT
#534
This is just amazing,

I'm going to check on my SQ immediately
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
shucklesors
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore1176 Posts
September 17 2011 01:56 GMT
#535
amazing.. pretty colours too!
scDeluX
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada1341 Posts
September 17 2011 01:59 GMT
#536
Can't wait to see your 1000th post.
Brood War is forever
Cassel_Castle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States820 Posts
September 17 2011 01:59 GMT
#537
On September 17 2011 10:43 SDream wrote:
Awesome thread, I will keep track of my SQ from now on lol

My last 10 games:

70,9 won
70,5 won
57,8 won
74,5 won
51,5 lost
60,7 lost
72 lost
63,4 won
52,7 won
60,5 won

Average> 63,45

I am low diamond, so it seems just right.


Mine is 64 and I'm in gold. TT
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
September 17 2011 02:00 GMT
#538
Well done! This was very interesting.
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
September 17 2011 02:02 GMT
#539
@stanik Just ran the numbers:
My Mean Worker Production Rate is 3.99/min
My Median Worker Production Rate is 3.98/min
My Deviation from Mean is 0.77

....so....I make drones better than a Grandmaster??
And I spend my money at a mid-master level??

WHY THE HELL AM I PLAT???
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
TheLOLas
Profile Joined May 2011
United States646 Posts
September 17 2011 02:02 GMT
#540
This is amazing. well done sir. I wont actually read all of this now, but when i do i will surely enjoy it.
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