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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 26

Forum Index > SC2 General
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MacDubhghaill
Profile Joined August 2010
United States41 Posts
September 16 2011 23:57 GMT
#501
Do you think you would be able to apply this SQ to, let say, each minute in a game to get a more precise value per game? Assuming the data used is available throughout the game. Or could this apply a drastic change to your analysis?
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 17 2011 00:00 GMT
#502
--- Nuked ---
ScrubS
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands436 Posts
September 17 2011 00:06 GMT
#503
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?
GhostFall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States830 Posts
September 17 2011 00:19 GMT
#504
You can totally cheat the system if instead of making units when your resources get high, to just make buildings or more production facilities.

I think a lot of ppl who are finding themselves with high scores have this as their underlying cause.
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
September 17 2011 00:19 GMT
#505
On September 17 2011 09:06 ScrubS wrote:
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?


or your math is wrong

I acutally made a research concidering the worker production.
In the firstpost, you compare grandmaster worker production with other leagues and divide them into the 3 races. I added IdrA and Ret to the Grandmaster Z, P and T graph

[image loading]
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
IsuckatSC
Profile Joined September 2011
1 Post
September 17 2011 00:22 GMT
#506
wow I am impressed, my last 19 games my sq came around 65 and that is like the exact average diamond player like me
Catyoul *
Profile Joined April 2004
France2377 Posts
September 17 2011 00:24 GMT
#507
Rarely do I see such a sound statistical post, with smart and subtle analysis.

Brilliant post !
Chrisboy
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia118 Posts
September 17 2011 00:28 GMT
#508
Does having units cued up in production count towards 'spent' or 'unspent' resources? Because that could make a Terran appear to have better spending management than they really do. As a plat level random player I very often find myself cuing units when I roll terran and the game goes into the mid-late game.
That's why I beat you almost half the time!
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
September 17 2011 00:29 GMT
#509
On September 17 2011 09:06 ScrubS wrote:
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?


3 is an incredibly small sample size. i can also get a 90+ SQ if i cherry pick games, that's why you need to use at least 10+ games.
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 00:31:03
September 17 2011 00:30 GMT
#510
On September 17 2011 09:19 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 09:06 ScrubS wrote:
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?


or your math is wrong

I acutally made a research concidering the worker production.
In the firstpost, you compare grandmaster worker production with other leagues and divide them into the 3 races. I added IdrA and Ret to the Grandmaster Z, P and T graph

[image loading]


Are those ingame minutes or real minutes on that chart?
Ret gets 80 drones by 5 minutes? If that's in game minutes 14/13 gets ling speed at around 5 minutes.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
September 17 2011 00:31 GMT
#511
I love science so I would like to thank you very much for sharing this analysis. I had some questions but they've already been answered in this thread, anyway, TL needs more posts like yours.
o choro é livre
Peleus
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia420 Posts
September 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#512
You're amazing, thanks for putting so much effort into this, you're an asset to the community.
Altar
Profile Joined May 2008
United States577 Posts
September 17 2011 00:34 GMT
#513
Seriously one of the best posts I've seen in a long time, Loved reading it.
Heavens to Betsy
tshred
Profile Joined December 2010
18 Posts
September 17 2011 00:38 GMT
#514
On September 17 2011 09:06 ScrubS wrote:
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?



It's just an indicator of how well you spend your money. There are other hidden factors for macro that can't be calculated mathematically such as expansion timings, worker saturation compared to the number of bases, number of production facilities, etc. These other factors affect your macro in addition to how well you spend your money.

To determine if your macro is good enough, you'll need to examine some information about your games. If you are below diamond league, then for the most part you could still work on macro. For the games that you lost, compare your income to your opponents. If you have a high SQ, but your income is lower than your opponent, then you still need to work on your macro. If your income is about the same or greater than your opponent and you still lost the game, then there was probably some decision making or micro error that might've cost you the game.
Things to work on if you are a noob (in order of importance): macro, army composition, and army positioning
ButtCraft
Profile Joined March 2011
United States114 Posts
September 17 2011 00:44 GMT
#515
My average over the last 10 games is 77.4 which puts me on the high end of Master League according to his scale.


-1000 pt master


Pretty accurate analysis, I would say. Even more evidence that macro is the largest difference between good and bad players.
Sometimes you just gotta say fuck it, and swing for the fuckin fences
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
September 17 2011 00:47 GMT
#516
You should also collect data from korean GM's and see how they compare to NA :o
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
September 17 2011 00:54 GMT
#517
On September 17 2011 05:24 Clbull wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 05:00 kmh wrote:
On September 17 2011 04:51 Clbull wrote:
I don't feel that SQ is a very accurate formula for calculating how good a player is at macro. It makes sense for earlier games but what about with the late game.

[...] snip


Without. SQ = ~50.96 average

If it's important, I am a high Gold League Zerg.


Guess what? Your results fall into the expected range for a gold league player regardless of that inaccuracy.

Does that matter? It was still significantly lower than it should have been regardless. 8 points less is a big fucking deal.


High level players still have a higher SQ in longer games, I suspect it also drops by a few points for them too. They keep their SQ higher by finding ways to spend money in the late game. Things like static defense, losing their units to harrass and army trades, and building more production facilities to re-max in the late game would all contribute to a higher SQ in the late-game than an average gold level player.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
September 17 2011 00:56 GMT
#518
On September 17 2011 09:30 Jaeger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 09:19 DiaBoLuS wrote:
On September 17 2011 09:06 ScrubS wrote:
I dont get the SQ stuff, I calculated mine from 3 random games in my match history and i had an average of 93. You are suggesting that with such a high SQ number, i shouldn't focus on my macro because I am able to spent my resources? Or is it more an indicator of macro capabilities rather than your actual skill? I guess that just depends on the number of games you analyze?


or your math is wrong

I acutally made a research concidering the worker production.
In the firstpost, you compare grandmaster worker production with other leagues and divide them into the 3 races. I added IdrA and Ret to the Grandmaster Z, P and T graph

[image loading]


Are those ingame minutes or real minutes on that chart?
Ret gets 80 drones by 5 minutes? If that's in game minutes 14/13 gets ling speed at around 5 minutes.


oh wow, i thought the graphs were exteme enough to not be serious :/
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
taishiro
Profile Joined September 2010
51 Posts
September 17 2011 00:58 GMT
#519
This is a pretty awesome post, but it makes me sad at the same time. I calculated my last 40 games and I got 74 as my SQ.

I've been stuck in platinum league since season 1, and never manage to be able to get out. Since this shows my macro being decent, what aspects should I focus on not sucking at? Now instead of feeling like I lost due to bad macro, I feel like I just suck at the game in general. I do notice in my wins I win by an overwhelming amount, and losses are like I'm getting picked apart.

(looking back at opponents SQ they averaged 63)

This is a ridiculously amazing read, and I couldn't be more impressed at the time you put into this. I am just wondering what conclusions about other parts of your game play you should focus if your SQ is significantly higher or lower than your actual level of play.

(I'm not trying to be difficult or prove this wrong, several friends of mine did this for their last 30 as well and their averages were almost spot on the average of their respective ranks)
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
September 17 2011 00:59 GMT
#520
averaged 75.4 over the last 20 ladder games I played. Also went back and looked at the half dozen or so tournament games and averaged that since it was before school started. 80.3 -__-;;;

School is definitely a cause for skill degradation.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
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