EPTWell, hopefully this stops Tosses from complaining a bit more.
Another Neural Parasite Change. - Page 40
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
Well, hopefully this stops Tosses from complaining a bit more. | ||
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:49 Dingobloo wrote: Not quite, it started as range 7, then went up to 9 and hadn't been reverted until now. The change they did make was keeping it at 9, but making it an upgrade and doubling the energy cost, it also used to be ground-only which seems like a much better change :\ You are wrong. They indeed nerfed the range already, until they removed the nerf. Proof : Patch 0.7.0 (March 12th 2010 ) Cast range decreased from 9 to 7. Patch 0.11.0 (April 22nd 2010) Neural Parasite range increased from 7 to 9. | ||
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Loire
Singapore1358 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
Question to Zerg: why does nobody burrow their infestors after NP? At 9-range they were so far back that toss had to have obs like halfway over the Z army to spot them when burrowed. The few Z who ever thought to do it to me completely trashed me, particularly since my obs are usually dead/stuck from fungalspam anyway. Even at 7 I feel like it would help a lot. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:03 Belisarius wrote: Question to Zerg: why does nobody burrow their infestors after NP? would help a lot. Well on that one, it's channelled, isn't it? | ||
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:01 Flonomenalz wrote: How do people say Infestors are OP when Korean Zergs are barely even using them and still stomping Protoss? "Once you get 20 Infestors game is basically over?" WTF does that even mean? So you just sat in your base and let your opponent get 20 infestors out? Rofl. Well, hopefully this stops Tosses from complaining a bit more. Do they nice then they can remove them from the game completely? case solved | ||
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lgn!
Italy224 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:01 Flonomenalz wrote: How do people say Infestors are OP when Korean Zergs are barely even using them and still stomping Protoss? Well, hopefully this stops Tosses from complaining a bit more. you just said: no infestor needed to win in pvz -> nerf NP -> less whine from toss wtf? | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:26 hobosrus wrote: Im so tired of zergs saying their race has design flaws. WHAT DESIGN FLAWS????? roaches are one of the most cost efficient units in the game not so much against terran (because of seige tanks and marauders) but they pretty much own pretty much every gateway based army. Even blink stalkers requires excellent micro and if you add some infestors with the roaches that get nullified. Hydra is one of the greatest dps dealers in the game against everything. mutas are probably the best harassment unit and they can compliment ling bling quite nicely (which is why that is standard) im just trying to understand what zergs find so bad about their units???? Zerg does not have as many units as the other races, which limits our options. Really, we only have ling/bling/roach/muta/infestor; mutas are not even a combat unit, while corrupters are only made to make broods, and hydras are extremely situational for all-ins. It feels like there are no ways that zergs can maximize their unit efficiency, or creatively utilize their army potential in a realistic way. There's a bunch of other stuff, but I don't want to complain too much. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:04 Resistentialism wrote: Well on that one, it's channelled, isn't it? No, you can definitely burrow an infestor that's controlling something. You just can't cast NP from burrow. I don't know, but you might even be able to fungal with an infestor channeling NP so long as you have the energy. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
There are only two good cost effective counters for Protoss to upgraded roaches (with burrow) and that's colossi and voidrays. Infestors take care of both of these units fairly easily, particularly with corruptor/hydra support. Storm is pretty ineffective vs roaches because they can avoid the storms easily with their speed, they have a lot of HP, and they can burrow. Gateway units don't scale well against roaches, and they don't do splash. Roach numbers just grow too fast for gateway units to take care of them on their own. So, if you go colossi and the zerg adds infestor/corruptor, he can neural the colossi and the roaches will just slaughter the army. If the infestors get sniped the corruptors are always there to kill the colossi anyway. Even worse is when the Zerg gets broodlords. It's incredibly difficult to counter corruptor/broodlord/infestor/roach without air control as Protoss. You need a lot of voidrays, and infestors are great vs voidrays with fungal. I say all of this as a random player. I used to be fine in PvZ, in fact, it was one of my best matchups. Now I'm hovering a little below 50% in PvZ macro games because of the roach/infestor/broodlord composition. I either have to successfully harass the Zerg while I'm on two bases (which is nearly impossible nowadays) and then do a perfect timing attack while taking a third, or just die when we're both maxed to a very powerful army, unable to reinforce fast enough while he remaxes 2/2 or 3/3 roaches with impunity. My ZvP winrate, on the other hand, is pretty much unchanged. It's been much easier to beat Protosses with Z since the infestor buff vs armored came around. | ||
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
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Truedot
444 Posts
On September 16 2011 06:39 Condor Hero wrote: That's the way it's always been. You want a game where every race can win with any unit composition at any time? Then go play chess. Or I could go back and play Starcraft brood war. There's a reason that games have existed in that sense, that both sides are equal and equally capable of winning at any time; Because it shifts the gameplay from obvious superiority in numbers/power, to one of skill. Thus players have to rely on skill. Here's a partial list of all successful sports and games where both sides get equal ability: Football (american). Soccer. baseball. Go. Battleship. Chess. Backgammon. and so on. They all succeeded at staying viable forms of entertainment for a hundred years or more. Where are all the games that have auto-lose situations if one player doesn't win before the other player gets all his ducks in a row? Name me one. There is no such game that has survived until now, from past rock or board games, to field sport. Why? because people want to witness superior skill of mind, and sometimes body. Not of a greater always bashing a lesser. Those who play want the same. I can Imagine you: Play Terran. Deny Terran is OP. trollface while spamming A for marines. Remember, I could also go bakc and play brood war, where zerg doesn't even get inject, and doesn't have to spam it, and has an army thats always LARGER tahn the enemy, yet is equal in power. | ||
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:11 Xorphene wrote: In response to your inane trolling in this thread: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dqxuz.jpg) im joking with you retards relax User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:10 Zdrastochye wrote: Make NP range of 5, allow them to cast it and FG while burrowed, balance problem solved! Or not. Burrowed fungal? Really? Honest question, what stops Z burrowing their infestors before an engagement, bringing them into 7 range and unburrowing to NP, and then reburrowing? Obviously it's a huge amount of apm, but it's not that much different to the anti-EMP storm prism stuff MC has started doing. It shouldn't be too hard to deny observers over your army at that stage of the game, particularly with 50 gas overseers. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
Honestly though, a 9 range mind control was and is a little silly. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:06 wherebugsgo wrote: The problem actually, IMO, is the roach. There are only two good cost effective counters for Protoss to upgraded roaches (with burrow) and that's colossi and voidrays. Infestors take care of both of these units fairly easily, particularly with corruptor/hydra support. Storm is pretty ineffective vs roaches because they can avoid the storms easily with their speed, they have a lot of HP, and they can burrow. Gateway units don't scale well against roaches, and they don't do splash. Roach numbers just grow too fast for gateway units to take care of them on their own. So, if you go colossi and the zerg adds infestor/corruptor, he can neural the colossi and the roaches will just slaughter the army. If the infestors get sniped the corruptors are always there to kill the colossi anyway. Even worse is when the Zerg gets broodlords. It's incredibly difficult to counter corruptor/broodlord/infestor/roach without air control as Protoss. You need a lot of voidrays, and infestors are great vs voidrays with fungal. I say all of this as a random player. I used to be fine in PvZ, in fact, it was one of my best matchups. Now I'm hovering a little below 50% in PvZ macro games because of the roach/infestor/broodlord composition. I either have to successfully harass the Zerg while I'm on two bases (which is nearly impossible nowadays) and then do a perfect timing attack while taking a third, or just die when we're both maxed to a very powerful army, unable to reinforce fast enough while he remaxes 2/2 or 3/3 roaches with impunity. My ZvP winrate, on the other hand, is pretty much unchanged. It's been much easier to beat Protosses with Z since the infestor buff vs armored came around. You have to keep in mind that they also buffed immortal range so maybe your roach problems will be solved next patch. It's interesting how that plays into the range nerf though, immortals are now very decent in the mid game, and there will be more immortals for zergs to NP now so we might see an escalation where you eventually get collossus to help defend your immortals from getting NP'd instead of neural just shutting out the whole robo tech tree. | ||
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Daniri
387 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:06 Belisarius wrote: No, you can definitely burrow an infestor that's controlling something. You just can't cast NP from burrow. I don't know, but you might even be able to fungal with an infestor channeling NP so long as you have the energy. No you can't. That was a bug that they removed in 1.1. | ||
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