EPTProtoss here.
Another Neural Parasite Change. - Page 38
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
Protoss here. | ||
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j0ker
275 Posts
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fusihunter
Australia208 Posts
That means you'll need to fungal the casters first ( hoping they aren't really close to the Collossus/Thor), and then walk in range of massive unit you want to neural Sounds like it'll be alot harder now  | ||
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
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Xivsa
United States1009 Posts
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Loodah
335 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Seriously....we see a lot of games, GSL, MLG, IPL, etc, etc. Did blue flame give us reasons to say it's OP? YES! Did NP gave us reasons to say it's OP? NO! Protoss here. I don't think the problem is OP or not, I think the problem is that the unit is good vs everything. Want to push a base ? Spam infested terrans. Bunch of T1 units ? Fungal solves. Air ? See above. He transition to T3 massive units ? Research neural. The problem is especially in the ZvP matchup, as neural makes it that you need templars to protect your colossi, but the colossus/templar is a end game composition that necessitate at least 6 gas (8 is more realistic if you want some upgrades and stalkers too). But the infestors are perfect against the whole "life" of a protoss army. I think this nerf is way better than just removing neural, which was the practical effect of the previous nerf. | ||
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Jimbo77
139 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:48 MrCon wrote: I don't think the problem is OP or not, I think the problem is that the unit is good vs everything. Want to push a base ? Spam infested terrans. Bunch of T1 units ? Fungal solves. Air ? See above. He transition to T3 massive units ? Research neural. The problem is especially in the ZvP matchup, as neural makes it that you need templars to protect your colossi, but the colossus/templar is a end game composition that necessitate at least 6 gas (8 is more realistic if you want some upgrades and stalkers too). But the infestors are perfect against the whole "life" of a protoss army. I think this nerf is way better than just removing neural, which was the practical effect of the previous nerf. Well said. +1 The main reason of being OP is that infestors own everything from start to mid to late game. | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:48 MrCon wrote: I don't think the problem is OP or not, I think the problem is that the unit is good vs everything. Want to push a base ? Spam infested terrans. Bunch of T1 units ? Fungal solves. Air ? See above. He transition to T3 massive units ? Research neural. The problem is especially in the ZvP matchup, as neural makes it that you need templars to protect your colossi, but the colossus/templar is a end game composition that necessitate at least 6 gas (8 is more realistic if you want some upgrades and stalkers too). But the infestors are perfect against the whole "life" of a protoss army. I think this nerf is way better than just removing neural, which was the practical effect of the previous nerf. you actually make a really good point. Nerfing the other spells, while they may feel "worse" or stronger to P players (myself included), NP let's Zerg stay on Infestors into the late game, which I assume the Bliz team seems to think is the imbalance, and I think i agree, so hopefully it ends up being a good change  | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
Np have 9 range, colossus have 9 range, put them on a different control group, keep them in the back. If any infestor try to neural he will reach melee range and get promptly sniped by stalker/colossus. There's no "counter" in this, apart from punishing very bad control of a long-range unit | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:45 Zaurus wrote: Thank god for this patch. Blizzard finally recognize roach and infestors are imba for their cost. Zerg units are not weak. Protoss has the weakest early mid game before tier 3 gets out. QQ all you want Zerg, no choice but to admit you win some of your games due to pre patch infestors. yeah and before zerg was losing cause the had no way to deal with P deathball. conclusion: game balance is broken and one dimensional. -> wait for hots also your cute P whine at the same time as calling Z whine out is hypocrisy at its best. i agree with blizz that the infestor is more or less broken. but they made the hole they are falling into now themselves. i just hope that they learn something from all their blind bandaid fixes they keep throwing at the game and start actually caring about design in the future. cause juggling with numbers just cant fix flaws on the basic level. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:41 j0ker wrote: as a terran i'd be fine with a 1 range nerf to emp to balance out tvp. any zergs whining about ghosts are just mad they cant tech to brood/infestor and 1a anymore. getting enough ghosts to negate all hive tech takes a big lead, otherwise you are cutting tanks and vulnerable to be overran with ling/bane. the only imbalanced aspect of zvt was 11/11, and thats getting a solid nerf. mutas and infestors are both still amazing against terran. 1a with an infestor army? Not sure if serious.... | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:53 stokes17 wrote: you actually make a really good point. Nerfing the other spells, while they may feel "worse" or stronger to P players (myself included), NP let's Zerg stay on Infestors into the late game, which I assume the Bliz team seems to think is the imbalance, and I think i agree, so hopefully it ends up being a good change Yep, I don't think infestor are OP in essence. It's just that they remove too much options from the game (at least in the ZvP matchup). Now, snipe range -1 and EMP area -1 (and even perhaps EMP only removes 75, or even 50 energy/shields max) and it'll be perfect =). I think even if the 3 aspects were nerfed at once it wouldn't be a big problem seeing how ghost are massed now. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:53 Jimbo77 wrote: Well said. +1 The main reason of being OP is that infestors own everything from start to mid to late game. Sounds like the marine to me. Just because something is versatile doesn't mean it should be nerfed. The infestor was fine because it covered all the design flaws of zerg. | ||
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hobosrus
United States99 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Well he played Terran in BW.... | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:20 KimJongChill wrote: Sounds like the marine to me. Just because something is versatile doesn't mean it should be nerfed. The infestor was fine because it covered all the design flaws of zerg. Should nerf the marine too IMO. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:48 MrCon wrote: I don't think the problem is OP or not, I think the problem is that the unit is good vs everything. Want to push a base ? Spam infested terrans. Bunch of T1 units ? Fungal solves. Air ? See above. He transition to T3 massive units ? Research neural. The problem is especially in the ZvP matchup, as neural makes it that you need templars to protect your colossi, but the colossus/templar is a end game composition that necessitate at least 6 gas (8 is more realistic if you want some upgrades and stalkers too). But the infestors are perfect against the whole "life" of a protoss army. I think this nerf is way better than just removing neural, which was the practical effect of the previous nerf. The thing is zerg really doesn't have a good way to deal with T3 units, mainly colossi. Maybe neural shouldn't be the answer, but bliz should at least compensate the nerf with another buff( maybe something like increased range on corruptors) Really the infestor is all zerg has. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:12 MrCon wrote: Yep, I don't think infestor are OP in essence. It's just that they remove too much options from the game (at least in the ZvP matchup). Now, snipe range -1 and EMP area -1 (and even perhaps EMP only removes 75, or even 50 energy/shields max) and it'll be perfect =). I think even if the 3 aspects were nerfed at once it wouldn't be a big problem seeing how ghost are massed now. infestors are OP in essence. infact the basic idea of decent dmg together with a stun effect is beyond OP. but that doesnt matter since if we learned one thing from broodwar its that "op" units/spells make exciting and good gameplay. the problem is that its a VERY onesided thing and thats its so freakin jack of all trades(and so easy to do thx to smartcast etc but thats a different story). its just boring/frustrating to see and indeed causes actual balance issues. but the problem is that outside of infestors and broodlords the Z army is very limited so they have to keep the rather easy boring way of OPness in the game to not totally screw zergs over. the NP change is just another bandaid fix for a way way deeper problem .and its a ugly one since it essentially takes a spell out of the game. | ||
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hobosrus
United States99 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:21 hobosrus wrote: Blizzard wanted it this way so you have to get good positioning on your infestors, instead of going e(that is the hotkey right?) click on all the giant floating heads with laserbeams Im so tired of zergs saying their race has design flaws. WHAT DESIGN FLAWS????? roaches are one of the most cost efficient units in the game not so much against terran (because of seige tanks and marauders) but they pretty much own pretty much every gateway based army. Even blink stalkers requires excellent micro and if you add some infestors with the roaches that get nullified. Hydra is one of the greatest dps dealers in the game against everything. mutas are probably the best harassment unit and they can compliment ling bling quite nicely (which is why that is standard) im just trying to understand what zergs find so bad about their units???? | ||
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