EPTfrom a spectators standpoint neural parasite made for some of the most exciting battles I had seen out of the match up, and i shudder to think of a return to hydra roach corrupter vs colossi ball.
Another Neural Parasite Change. - Page 39
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SouthWales
Canada27 Posts
from a spectators standpoint neural parasite made for some of the most exciting battles I had seen out of the match up, and i shudder to think of a return to hydra roach corrupter vs colossi ball. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Nerf everything about infestors and compensate with lurkers ? :3 What? A guy can dream, right? | ||
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BandonBanshee
Canada437 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:48 MrCon wrote: I don't think the problem is OP or not, I think the problem is that the unit is good vs everything. Want to push a base ? Spam infested terrans. Bunch of T1 units ? Fungal solves. Air ? See above. He transition to T3 massive units ? Research neural. The problem is especially in the ZvP matchup, as neural makes it that you need templars to protect your colossi, but the colossus/templar is a end game composition that necessitate at least 6 gas (8 is more realistic if you want some upgrades and stalkers too). But the infestors are perfect against the whole "life" of a protoss army. I think this nerf is way better than just removing neural, which was the practical effect of the previous nerf. This brings up a good point though. Infestors are OP as shit(zerg player here) but these all just seem like bandage solutions. Zergs were having trouble in alot of situations so they made it so infestor was basicly a super unit. I think this is more of an issue about Zerg and Protoss not being as complete of a race as terran. | ||
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IMLyte
Canada714 Posts
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Shangiv
Australia45 Posts
so is Terran if you miss 1 emp since infestors fat, you gotta aim twice and each infestor to get rid of energy, if not 1-2 fungal from 1 infestor = gg marines. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:26 hobosrus wrote: Im so tired of zergs saying their race has design flaws. WHAT DESIGN FLAWS????? roaches are one of the most cost efficient units in the game not so much against terran (because of seige tanks and marauders) but they pretty much own pretty much every gateway based army. Even blink stalkers requires excellent micro and if you add some infestors with the roaches that get nullified. Hydra is one of the greatest dps dealers in the game against everything. mutas are probably the best harassment unit and they can compliment ling bling quite nicely (which is why that is standard) im just trying to understand what zergs find so bad about their units???? The problem with zerg is that they have the least diversity, they have to play defensively in the early to mid game(unless they all in), and their late game compositions just can't match P or T (without neural, that is). Protoss have their weakness too, mainly in that their race is the most inflexible. And terran..... well terran has flexibility and diversity.....and good harass options.... and good defense and offense....really what is terran's weakness? (LOL) | ||
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sc2trainer
63 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:27 SouthWales wrote: I think the infester Nerf is underlining the big problem with the ZvP meta game which is that the infester was the only way for zerg to be cost effective against the protoss. while in a vacuum the infester is certainly one of the best units in the game (aside from my beloved marines <3), it seems like the zerg needs a unit like the infester in order to deal with how down right awe full their other units are against a protoss ball. from a spectators standpoint neural parasite made for some of the most exciting battles I had seen out of the match up, and i shudder to think of a return to hydra roach corrupter vs colossi ball. I feel like NP was too strong and this range nerf makes it more balanced. In fact I liked the NP massive nerf better as I still feel NP is too strong.... | ||
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:25 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: infestors are OP in essence. infact the basic idea of decent dmg together with a stun effect is beyond OP. but that doesnt matter since if we learned one thing from broodwar its that "op" units/spells make exciting and good gameplay. the problem is that its a VERY onesided thing and thats its so freakin jack of all trades(and so easy to do thx to smartcast etc but thats a different story). its just boring/frustrating to see and indeed causes actual balance issues. but the problem is that outside of infestors and broodlords the Z army is very limited so they have to keep the rather easy boring way of OPness in the game to not totally screw zergs over. the NP change is just another bandaid fix for a way way deeper problem .and its a ugly one since it essentially takes a spell out of the game. Can people refrain from using "in essence" when oblivious to what it actually means. Unless Blizzard purposely designed the Infestor to be Op, only than would it be accurate. I have a stern (but unbacked) feeling that its use was a snarky response to use the same word as the person responding to. too many of the claims here (which are merely opinion) come off as being factual (without any real evidence). The only part that I can remotely agree with is that this was a badaid fix for a much deeper issue at hand. Alas, the deeper problem you speak of most likely differs between you and I but that can't be helped. | ||
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:42 Zdrastochye wrote: Why not leave NP alone and nerf the more groundbreaking spell of Infestors and double the energy cost of IT? Well to the zerg np seems to be the most precious spell in the world, with all this care for the spell its unbelievable. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
On September 16 2011 06:02 Yaotzin wrote: Blizzard gave up on making the mothership a "real" unit back in alpha/beta. They tried tons of things with it back then. They've said they consider it a casual unit now. its actually a bad unit if it can be NP right? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
This way, Thor Hellion can still work, since Thors will be able to hit the Infestors. Now you may say, wtf infestors already get raped when there's tanks even with 9 range, so 7 range is gonna be really dumb. Well they're so squishy it doesn't matter that they need 7 range, it's not going to work either way as long as he has like 1 tank per 2 infestors roughly. However, in ZvP, this sounds genius. You can still NP Colossi, but generally, Colossi compositions can still be used as a soft counter (considering that Fungal will still work well) to compositions that don't have Corruptors but only Infestors. And it adds another element of micro to the game; if you somehow get your Infestors close, like fungalling their army and/or dropping your infestors, then NP'ing their Colossi, you could end up winning a fight. However the problem I see is that with the new 7 range, it seems like the gameflow of ZvP will be this: Zerg gets Infestors Protoss gets Colossi OR HT If protoss gets Colossi, Zerg adds Corruptors. But what happens when he goes HT? Do you just mass up on Roach ultra I guess? | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
Maybe this balance change will stop zergs from winning every tournament like they have been, oh wait... Good thing I just learned how to play terran. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:44 RavenLoud wrote: Didn't they do this in the beta then reverted it back 2 patches later? Not quite, it started as range 7, then went up to 9 and hadn't been reverted until now. The change they did make was keeping it at 9, but making it an upgrade and doubling the energy cost, it also used to be ground-only which seems like a much better change :\ | ||
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Faulteh
Canada48 Posts
I'll see how it works but the gas saving from researching neural will get me hive and then with ultra's build time decrease, hopefully I can hit some kind of timing. then push with mass ling/ultra and burrow spam IT's behind the protoss ball. I don't think NP is the problem in this matchup. I think like everyone else, fungal should not be a snare. The big problem I see with the PvZ matchup is 1) gateway units are pretty shit 2) in a perfect world, mass lings should force zealots, in which a tech switch to muta would be killer. Unfortunately, on almost all maps (because of sentries) all it does is force turtle into deathball. Collosus hard counter zerglings so hard that toss can use stalkers that on their own suck vs zerglings because of how good col's are. I dunno, I'll be doing quicker ultra's probably and maybe toying with more muta harrass. I feel like this is just going to get me killed by blink stalker tho. | ||
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graniten
Sweden36 Posts
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:34 Mutality wrote: I dont understand how they think Infestors need to be fixed faster than ghosts can someone plz show bilizzard the Mvp vs July game 2 VOD Do you really want to include MVP in a balance discussion?  | ||
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