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On September 13 2011 13:58 StreetWise wrote:
As an older gamer(28), with a family, and a full time job that requires me to be away from things like the internet for 7 months at a time, I find that the thing that is the hardest about playing SC2 is NOT about finding time, or even the fact that I started playing the game 5 months after release. I actually am able to find time to play every evening, after taking my son to the pool/park, doing house work, grilling supper and getting basic things done around the house. The problem is, by the time I sit down to play I am often quite tired mentally and physically. So instead of focusing on the game I play in a mental fog. Ill grind out games as I find it more enjoyable than watching brain draining TV, but I don't really feel like I will really improve beyond the point where I am at...~800 Masters. I equate this being like going to the gym and half assing a workout. You go through the motions, but will never really improve. I guess it's just a few hours of entertainment for the evening.
True, I have similar experience. Normally the only time I can play is in the night, maybe 1 game before dinner, and then couple of games before sleep. I tried to limit myself not to go to bed later than 11pm. And the issue is exactly as StreetWise said, I still can find time for me to play, but most of the time, I am just too tired to play good enough. Yes I still can win some games here and there (currently on gold), but I don't have much energy to focus, especially when your wife talking to you during games, lol.
Tried to balancing my work / fun / family time, I've been playing on and off since the beginning, played only 1-2 games during Jan-July. Start to play more games in the last month only.
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No, you don't get old with these sorts of things. Also, 30s is still young. The thing that happens is people lose determination and passion, consciously or not. That's the difference between say Nestea and the Emperor (and Nada, although Nada is extremely good as far as SC2 players go, but he isn't bonjwa status).
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I'm 30. In 99 I grabbed starcraft and played through the missions and some customs, but not really much besides that. I've played WoW, some CS1.6 and some Dota too.
From 2000 till now I've worked construction. I've hit my hands and fingers with a hammer countless times, I've smashed them between boards, mixed concrete without gloves, cut them on metal and glass, and even got burned by a welding torch, oh and I have small hands as well.
Around Nov 2010 I quit my job. I had a few months free, From Nov to March I went from plat to #2 diamond in NA to around #5300 Masters on NA in 600 ladder games and 800 customs played. In Feb I got a job and a girlfriend and stopped playing.
I didn't play every day, but on those days I would watch videos of pros or check out new tricks. (<3 Catz!) When I would play, I'd play diligently and practice hard. I'd even hit the gym 3 times a week and run daily to keep in shape.
I believe the key is practicing hard, and in long stretches. You really can't get around doing the time to get what you want, no matter what age or condition you are in. I didn't make it to the top, but with my busted hands and lack of RTS experience i didn't do too bad. I'd love to try for GM but with a GF and job its too much for me right now, not to mention... I play Zerg. 
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time is time if you are anatomically/physiologically ok. the real question is the amount of time. i am number 1 in masters 2v2r 3v3r and 1 in my 2v2 AT league. i can do this at old age mainly cause i was a top poker playera s well. i've had extensive studies in game theory.
however, if you are willing to put in the time there is no reason you cant. the problem is, its hard for me to think you can when you haven't put in the amount of hours like i have (regretablly).
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Ya i've read most of this thread now and I feel like the general idea is that its not impossible to start late but it's difficult. Because if you're starting late it also means you already have some of the ''grown up'' priorities in your hands, meaning even if you'd want to you don't really have time to. The few people that are still top in the game at an old age got there because they didnt have those responsibilities due to the fact theyve been playing this game as a job for a long time or have had tons of practice in their teen years.
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37 here - 800 Pts on master (rank 20 in my division currently). I know I won't achieve GM ever because of age and no talent.  Still enjoying the game though.
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I was gonna write Einstein but then I realized he was pretty talented.
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12519 Posts
Actually, in many ways older people have their advantages in starcraft, and since SC2 isn't as mechanically pressuring as BW, chances are very good for anyone in the 30-40 range, and even beyond. Pretty sure they could become even progamers, if they would have the time and desire for it.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On September 13 2011 17:59 figq wrote:
Actually, in many ways older people have their advantages in starcraft, and since SC2 isn't as mechanically pressuring as BW, chances are very good for anyone in the 30-40 range, and even beyond. Pretty sure they could become even progamers, if they would have the time and desire for it.
But you will not have the opportunity or desire at that age, hence it is better to be younger.
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On September 13 2011 13:03 dAPhREAk wrote:
makes me sad when you are calling people who are 17-22 old..... =(
Indeed lol. A 17 year old is just a kid in like 75% of the worlds eyes. People live until like 80 which makes a 40 year old middle and everyone under ~20 young, over ~60 old. So show me the guy who picked up starcraft in his 50's and is competitive...
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Age doesnt matter that much, even if you are not that fast.. you can still win games on good decision making and strategy.
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12519 Posts
On September 13 2011 18:05 Beyonder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 17:59 figq wrote:
Actually, in many ways older people have their advantages in starcraft, and since SC2 isn't as mechanically pressuring as BW, chances are very good for anyone in the 30-40 range, and even beyond. Pretty sure they could become even progamers, if they would have the time and desire for it. But you will not have the opportunity or desire at that age, hence it is better to be younger. Depends a lot on what culture you live in. Many people still live with assumptions about human lifestyle that are grounded in the pre-20th century era, and are becoming more obsolete every day.
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I am 30+ and I dont doubt I could compete with the best.
As you get older, and more experienced as a gamer, you also get better in analyzing misstakes and controlling emotions. How often do you see Boxer or White-Ra rage?
What totally makes it impossible to become highly ranked is children. If I am happy to squezee in a single game during an evening the chance that I will get interrupted and leave early is close to 50%. Not complayining though. babies >>> esports.
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If you think you are too old, you are too old.
If you think you are still young enough to become awesome, you will become awesome.
I believe that's the difference between White-Ra, NesTea, Boxer, etc.
It's really all about what you believe in your own mind.
Personally, I think that if everyone had the same mindset, being 30 would not be much different than being 20.
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So ...
It's a fact that after you turn around 30, your body slows down somewhat.
Whether it's 30, 32, or 33, is somewhat individual, but in general, around 30-31 for nearly everyone.
That's not to say someone who is 32 can't compete ... but someone who is 38? I'll believe it when I see it ...
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I'm really interested to see where this thread goes, as those statements you made, while cliché, are still very true, and few can overcome them.
I started playing videogames competitively at the age ~13, and i can promise you, i'm alot slower at learning stuff than i used to be (23 now). I can really FEEL the differenence, it's that big. A Cliché is not a Cliché without a reason.
While it is possible in Golf, and other more laidback sports to go on FOREVER basically, eSports is a totally different story. The game/games you play change, then there's a new one, and a patch to make your race different again, and so on. All these little obstacles get harder to tackle the older you are. (For most, regular people)
Also finding the time needed in order to even having a chance at becoming pro is pretty rough once you're out there in the "real world" so to speak.
You need to hit your timing, basically. Obviously that timing can be different for everyone.
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Thing is if you're 25+ and you're not a sc2 pro, you will probably have a whole other life and job already, that's why you don't see pro's who started that late.
If you start at 16-17 you just go to school ~8-15, then have like ~9 hours of spare time every day and not yet a solid plan or anything for your life. So if you feel like it, you can just play sc2 all day, hope you aren't too stupid, and go pro.
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On September 13 2011 18:09 oZe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 13:03 dAPhREAk wrote:
makes me sad when you are calling people who are 17-22 old..... =( Indeed lol. A 17 year old is just a kid in like 75% of the worlds eyes. People live until like 80 which makes a 40 year old middle and everyone under ~20 young, over ~60 old. So show me the guy who picked up starcraft in his 50's and is competitive...
Most professionals start out when they are only a little child though so in that regard starting at 17-22 IS old, it's all relative I think that's kind of the point he is trying to make.
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On September 13 2011 13:58 StreetWise wrote:
As an older gamer(28), with a family, and a full time job that requires me to be away from things like the internet for 7 months at a time, I find that the thing that is the hardest about playing SC2 is NOT about finding time, or even the fact that I started playing the game 5 months after release. I actually am able to find time to play every evening, after taking my son to the pool/park, doing house work, grilling supper and getting basic things done around the house. The problem is, by the time I sit down to play I am often quite tired mentally and physically. So instead of focusing on the game I play in a mental fog. Ill grind out games as I find it more enjoyable than watching brain draining TV, but I don't really feel like I will really improve beyond the point where I am at...~800 Masters. I equate this being like going to the gym and half assing a workout. You go through the motions, but will never really improve. I guess it's just a few hours of entertainment for the evening.
I admire you for that you still push through and play regularly - even though I tried to motivate myself, I found myself mostly too tired and stressed out throughout the last weeks/months too grind ladder. I usually just turn on a stream.
Nevertheless I can only second that it's mostly not the lack of time but the lack of "drive". After all, you don't really "relax" when gaming, it is a stressful activity. Sometimes I find myself in danger of burning out when I don't get any rest throughout the day. Which is the case when I go straight from work into running/swimming into gaming into sleeping.
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The body definatly slows down around 30, i notice it in every game i play.
People like WhiteRa or Boxer have lower APM than comparable pros for a reason but they are able to compensate by just having more experience. However, compared to people that start late (with the correct definition, not your "17 years old is late"), those two have a lot of practice and trained their handspeed for 10-12 years.
People like me, who didn't really play BW longer than maybe a year after release, did not practice handspeed, precision, etc. and so the slow down is more noticeable.
Add to this the fact that at that age you usually have a full time job taking in average 10 hours of your day (with a break and commuting), need 8 hours of sleep, have to shop for food, clothes, etc. yourself and have to cook your own food, so you only have about 4-5 hours every day for your private life.
That is too little for serious practice, especially since a lot of jobs are very draining - either physically or mentally - and so you will always be behind on the practice schedule.
With wife and children, the time is basically reduced to 0.
Now consider a typical 17 year old:
- About 8 hours a day for high school including breaks, commuting and homework.
- 8 hour sleep
- No need to buy or cook food
So basically 8 hours a day for practice, no wife and children (at most a girlfriend that does not live in the same house).
TL;DR:
- WhiteRa and Boxer practiced for 10 years full-time
- Late starters have less time to practice - if any - and don't have WhiteRas and Boxers practice and no time to catch up
- Youngsters have too much time :p
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EPT
