"I'm to old to get any good at this game" "The younger you are, the more able you are to pick things up" "I wish I had started earlier" "I've played for too long" "I use to be really good" "If I hadn't lost the spark.."
Although I'm mainly referring to the older group of gamers and such, y"all can't stay young forever ~~~ People tend to do things better when they can relate certain things to themselves, so I wanted to motivate you guy's who blame your age when it comes to improving.
Slayer Boxer- A man we all respect for his creativity, innovation, and the way he turns a game around when all hope was lost. Did you know during the time he won the World Cyber Game's he was 21 years. The game came out in 98, that means he started sc at age 18.
Nestea- Currently probably the best sc2 player in the world. He's 28 and kicking butt.
Shinichi Suzuki- The world class violinist and teacher who created his own method which is almost the staple way to learn violin across the world. He was self taught starting at age 17 only listening to records and at age 22 when he started to take lessons, his teacher was surprised Suzuki had learned so much by himself.
Allen Doyle- Professional golfer, now a senior professional golfer. He became pro at age 45, he's won the 2006 senior open making him the oldest pro golfer to had done that.
Steve Harris "Iron Maiden's bass player"- He started playing bass at age 17.
*Write below some famous people who started late as well
tbh none of your examples carry weight, and when they are relevant they are the exception. as far as sc2, boxer has honed his mechanics for 10+ years, nestea similarly. pointing out a prodigies to use for your example alienates the average guy and is evidence for your counter argument
Why ya gotta be like that, Kokujin? I think this is a great thread providing motivation for people who may be disheartened to put effort into something because it seems like everybody else has such a huge head start. I know as a drummer who got into it pretty late (age 16) it was pretty tough for me to play next to all the guys who had been drumming since they could walk. However, it's things like the information above that kept me motivated to practice more and more, and now I'm an actively gigging music major. TIME DOES NOT INDICATE YOUR SKILL LEVEL. It's simply dedication. A person halfheartedly practicing for 10 years is most likely less skilled than someone who put in a serious effort for just one year. You can get freakishly good at something in quite a short period of time (relatively), it's all about how much you dedicate yourself. Does it happen often? No. Because it's friggin hard. But anybody can potentially do it.
Umm I think you are arguing against your point with those examples. They were all quite young when they started playing w/e they do. Yes they are old NOW but have been playing and learning for 10+ years. A better example for your point would be someone who had no previous experience in a field, started at the age of 30 and was able to catch up to people who have 10+ years of experience.
I don't think age affects very much in SC2, except at the pro level. SC1 was a different story because of the high apm requirements.
I think its more about how *intense* you've played RTS in your lifetime. It seems like its carpal tunnel that forces players to retire from competitive gaming, not necessarily age. It just so happens the older you get, the more vulnerable you get to it.
If there were more 30+ year olds picking up the game out of the blue then I'm sure they'd do fine against a kid with an equal amount of experience. It just so happens that most serious players are in the 15-25 age group who grew up on BW/War3.
FDR didn't start being President until 51, and he was the first President Bonjwa. The only time he didn't defend his presidency (I believe it was the Shinhan Bank Presidency), was because he DIED.
On September 13 2011 12:50 Datum wrote: FDR didn't start being President until 51, and he was the first President Bonjwa. The only time he didn't defend his presidency (I believe it was the Shinhan Bank Presidency), was because he DIED.
That shit is intense.
Old people hwaiting!
(On-topic - Practice equals results, and your mindset or approach to learning -should- be more important than your age. Where younger people theoretically have giant sponges for brains, dem aging people should have the wisdom of the ages, which grants a +5 to kickass and +3 to willpower)
Boxer and Nestea are horrible examples. Nestea has been playing for ages and just understands the game better than most others. Boxer had been playing for 3 years because the game had only been out of such a short time and thus was so volatile (he was just ahead of the curve, much like nestea generally is right now, especially in ZvZ)
Old guys like me have jobs, kids, and wives. We can still get pretty good, but we're at a huge disadvantage in comparison to someone in their teens or in college. It really comes down to time, priorities, and readily available practice partners/coaches.
On September 13 2011 13:06 _Major wrote: Old guys like me have jobs, kids, and wives. We can still get pretty good, but we're at a huge disadvantage in comparison to someone in their teens or in college. It really comes down to time, priorities, and readily available practice partners/coaches.
Very true! The future old progamers will be the ones that were pro when they were in their teens. It's very unlikely someone will go pro at age 29 when they have a full time job, family, etc.
But! just because you can't go pro doesnt mean you cant have fun!
44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
On September 13 2011 13:14 Drlemur wrote: 44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
Haha, that is so awesome! Cheers to you and your son. More gg, more skill
As a man in my mid 30s I do not have the time to devote to the game to "be good" anymore. I have real life commitments that are more important. That is the real reason why there are few 'old' gamers. We do not have to the time to devote to practice that teens and early 20 somethings have, we have other things on our minds, like our families, responsibilities and jobs. We have real bills to pay. Very few people can balance both, those are the exceptions mentioned in the OP.
This is my opinion, anyway. A friend of similar age managed to get into diamond before masters started. He had to quit, citing "I don't have the time to play enough to be good." I never got out of bronze, I lacked the drive as well as the time. I love watching matches, just like I love watching baseball.
As an older gamer(28), with a family, and a full time job that requires me to be away from things like the internet for 7 months at a time, I find that the thing that is the hardest about playing SC2 is NOT about finding time, or even the fact that I started playing the game 5 months after release. I actually am able to find time to play every evening, after taking my son to the pool/park, doing house work, grilling supper and getting basic things done around the house. The problem is, by the time I sit down to play I am often quite tired mentally and physically. So instead of focusing on the game I play in a mental fog. Ill grind out games as I find it more enjoyable than watching brain draining TV, but I don't really feel like I will really improve beyond the point where I am at...~800 Masters. I equate this being like going to the gym and half assing a workout. You go through the motions, but will never really improve. I guess it's just a few hours of entertainment for the evening.
You know, it's not that I'm too old to start, or not good enough at this age. Instead, it's that I have invested too much into other things to give that up. I have a serious gf with a serious family along with a serious education. I feel that when I get to a point where I can put these things away, it will be too late to start.
[QUOTE]On September 13 2011 12:18 retRed wrote: "I'm to old to get any good at this game" "The younger you are, the more able you are to pick things up" "I wish I had started earlier" "I've played for too long" "I use to be really good" "If I hadn't lost the spark.."
None of that is true imo. I feel that age has nothing to do with how well you play the game and WhiteRa and the other older nerds have proved it. It has to do more with the mental issues that you're facing, the fact that you think you're old and aren't fast as the younger gamers. The more you think about your age, it will only be a burden for you to carry. Older people tends to be more efficient and smarter the young ones. Use your past experience as your advantage. There's not much physcial aspect involved in playing the game, just play man.
On September 13 2011 13:14 Drlemur wrote: 44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
On September 13 2011 14:21 Soulish wrote: Now imagine what those old guys can do if they started earlier. Even more experience, and thus, more skill.
i have to stir the pot, i mean just a little. one might say the flipside to having so much experience is the inability to come up with inspiring new strategies because of that fresh perspective youngins have.
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” George Bernard Shaw quotes (Irish literary Critic, Playwright and Essayist. 1925 Nobel Prize for Literature, 1856-1950)
“Those who love deeply never grow old; they may die of old age, but they die young.” Benjamin Franklin quotes (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer and Inventor. 1706-1790)
“At the age of 20, we don't care what the world thinks of us; at 30, we worry about what it is thinking of us; at 40, we discover that it wasn't thinking of us at all.”
“There is no failure except in no longer trying.” Elbert Hubbard quotes (American editor, publisher and writer, 1856-1915)
** You are Never Too Old to Get Started:
While most successful men start their careers at an early age, Harland Sanders’ story begins when he was sixty-five years old. He had spent many years of his life operating a restaurant. However, once he quit the food business and sat back to relax in retirement, he found himself penniless. When the Colonel received his first Social Security check in the amount of $105.00, he knew he had to get out of his rocking chair and do something to earn some real money.
Colonel Harland D. Sanders was broke and living off his Social Security check at 66 years of age. He did not consider himself “too old” to get started. He took his chicken recipe to the road and offered franchises. Within about 10 years he had accumulated over 600 franchised outlets which he sold for $2 million dollars.
On September 13 2011 13:58 StreetWise wrote: As an older gamer(28), with a family, and a full time job that requires me to be away from things like the internet for 7 months at a time, I find that the thing that is the hardest about playing SC2 is NOT about finding time, or even the fact that I started playing the game 5 months after release. I actually am able to find time to play every evening, after taking my son to the pool/park, doing house work, grilling supper and getting basic things done around the house. The problem is, by the time I sit down to play I am often quite tired mentally and physically. So instead of focusing on the game I play in a mental fog. Ill grind out games as I find it more enjoyable than watching brain draining TV, but I don't really feel like I will really improve beyond the point where I am at...~800 Masters. I equate this being like going to the gym and half assing a workout. You go through the motions, but will never really improve. I guess it's just a few hours of entertainment for the evening.
True, I have similar experience. Normally the only time I can play is in the night, maybe 1 game before dinner, and then couple of games before sleep. I tried to limit myself not to go to bed later than 11pm. And the issue is exactly as StreetWise said, I still can find time for me to play, but most of the time, I am just too tired to play good enough. Yes I still can win some games here and there (currently on gold), but I don't have much energy to focus, especially when your wife talking to you during games, lol.
Tried to balancing my work / fun / family time, I've been playing on and off since the beginning, played only 1-2 games during Jan-July. Start to play more games in the last month only.
No, you don't get old with these sorts of things. Also, 30s is still young. The thing that happens is people lose determination and passion, consciously or not. That's the difference between say Nestea and the Emperor (and Nada, although Nada is extremely good as far as SC2 players go, but he isn't bonjwa status).
I'm 30. In 99 I grabbed starcraft and played through the missions and some customs, but not really much besides that. I've played WoW, some CS1.6 and some Dota too. From 2000 till now I've worked construction. I've hit my hands and fingers with a hammer countless times, I've smashed them between boards, mixed concrete without gloves, cut them on metal and glass, and even got burned by a welding torch, oh and I have small hands as well. Around Nov 2010 I quit my job. I had a few months free, From Nov to March I went from plat to #2 diamond in NA to around #5300 Masters on NA in 600 ladder games and 800 customs played. In Feb I got a job and a girlfriend and stopped playing. I didn't play every day, but on those days I would watch videos of pros or check out new tricks. (<3 Catz!) When I would play, I'd play diligently and practice hard. I'd even hit the gym 3 times a week and run daily to keep in shape. I believe the key is practicing hard, and in long stretches. You really can't get around doing the time to get what you want, no matter what age or condition you are in. I didn't make it to the top, but with my busted hands and lack of RTS experience i didn't do too bad. I'd love to try for GM but with a GF and job its too much for me right now, not to mention... I play Zerg.
time is time if you are anatomically/physiologically ok. the real question is the amount of time. i am number 1 in masters 2v2r 3v3r and 1 in my 2v2 AT league. i can do this at old age mainly cause i was a top poker playera s well. i've had extensive studies in game theory.
however, if you are willing to put in the time there is no reason you cant. the problem is, its hard for me to think you can when you haven't put in the amount of hours like i have (regretablly).
Ya i've read most of this thread now and I feel like the general idea is that its not impossible to start late but it's difficult. Because if you're starting late it also means you already have some of the ''grown up'' priorities in your hands, meaning even if you'd want to you don't really have time to. The few people that are still top in the game at an old age got there because they didnt have those responsibilities due to the fact theyve been playing this game as a job for a long time or have had tons of practice in their teen years.
37 here - 800 Pts on master (rank 20 in my division currently). I know I won't achieve GM ever because of age and no talent. Still enjoying the game though.
Actually, in many ways older people have their advantages in starcraft, and since SC2 isn't as mechanically pressuring as BW, chances are very good for anyone in the 30-40 range, and even beyond. Pretty sure they could become even progamers, if they would have the time and desire for it.
On September 13 2011 17:59 figq wrote: Actually, in many ways older people have their advantages in starcraft, and since SC2 isn't as mechanically pressuring as BW, chances are very good for anyone in the 30-40 range, and even beyond. Pretty sure they could become even progamers, if they would have the time and desire for it.
But you will not have the opportunity or desire at that age, hence it is better to be younger.
On September 13 2011 13:03 dAPhREAk wrote: makes me sad when you are calling people who are 17-22 old..... =(
Indeed lol. A 17 year old is just a kid in like 75% of the worlds eyes. People live until like 80 which makes a 40 year old middle and everyone under ~20 young, over ~60 old. So show me the guy who picked up starcraft in his 50's and is competitive...
On September 13 2011 17:59 figq wrote: Actually, in many ways older people have their advantages in starcraft, and since SC2 isn't as mechanically pressuring as BW, chances are very good for anyone in the 30-40 range, and even beyond. Pretty sure they could become even progamers, if they would have the time and desire for it.
But you will not have the opportunity or desire at that age, hence it is better to be younger.
Depends a lot on what culture you live in. Many people still live with assumptions about human lifestyle that are grounded in the pre-20th century era, and are becoming more obsolete every day.
I am 30+ and I dont doubt I could compete with the best.
As you get older, and more experienced as a gamer, you also get better in analyzing misstakes and controlling emotions. How often do you see Boxer or White-Ra rage?
What totally makes it impossible to become highly ranked is children. If I am happy to squezee in a single game during an evening the chance that I will get interrupted and leave early is close to 50%. Not complayining though. babies >>> esports.
I'm really interested to see where this thread goes, as those statements you made, while cliché, are still very true, and few can overcome them.
I started playing videogames competitively at the age ~13, and i can promise you, i'm alot slower at learning stuff than i used to be (23 now). I can really FEEL the differenence, it's that big. A Cliché is not a Cliché without a reason.
While it is possible in Golf, and other more laidback sports to go on FOREVER basically, eSports is a totally different story. The game/games you play change, then there's a new one, and a patch to make your race different again, and so on. All these little obstacles get harder to tackle the older you are. (For most, regular people)
Also finding the time needed in order to even having a chance at becoming pro is pretty rough once you're out there in the "real world" so to speak.
You need to hit your timing, basically. Obviously that timing can be different for everyone.
Thing is if you're 25+ and you're not a sc2 pro, you will probably have a whole other life and job already, that's why you don't see pro's who started that late. If you start at 16-17 you just go to school ~8-15, then have like ~9 hours of spare time every day and not yet a solid plan or anything for your life. So if you feel like it, you can just play sc2 all day, hope you aren't too stupid, and go pro.
On September 13 2011 13:03 dAPhREAk wrote: makes me sad when you are calling people who are 17-22 old..... =(
Indeed lol. A 17 year old is just a kid in like 75% of the worlds eyes. People live until like 80 which makes a 40 year old middle and everyone under ~20 young, over ~60 old. So show me the guy who picked up starcraft in his 50's and is competitive...
Most professionals start out when they are only a little child though so in that regard starting at 17-22 IS old, it's all relative I think that's kind of the point he is trying to make.
On September 13 2011 13:58 StreetWise wrote: As an older gamer(28), with a family, and a full time job that requires me to be away from things like the internet for 7 months at a time, I find that the thing that is the hardest about playing SC2 is NOT about finding time, or even the fact that I started playing the game 5 months after release. I actually am able to find time to play every evening, after taking my son to the pool/park, doing house work, grilling supper and getting basic things done around the house. The problem is, by the time I sit down to play I am often quite tired mentally and physically. So instead of focusing on the game I play in a mental fog. Ill grind out games as I find it more enjoyable than watching brain draining TV, but I don't really feel like I will really improve beyond the point where I am at...~800 Masters. I equate this being like going to the gym and half assing a workout. You go through the motions, but will never really improve. I guess it's just a few hours of entertainment for the evening.
I admire you for that you still push through and play regularly - even though I tried to motivate myself, I found myself mostly too tired and stressed out throughout the last weeks/months too grind ladder. I usually just turn on a stream.
Nevertheless I can only second that it's mostly not the lack of time but the lack of "drive". After all, you don't really "relax" when gaming, it is a stressful activity. Sometimes I find myself in danger of burning out when I don't get any rest throughout the day. Which is the case when I go straight from work into running/swimming into gaming into sleeping.
The body definatly slows down around 30, i notice it in every game i play.
People like WhiteRa or Boxer have lower APM than comparable pros for a reason but they are able to compensate by just having more experience. However, compared to people that start late (with the correct definition, not your "17 years old is late"), those two have a lot of practice and trained their handspeed for 10-12 years. People like me, who didn't really play BW longer than maybe a year after release, did not practice handspeed, precision, etc. and so the slow down is more noticeable.
Add to this the fact that at that age you usually have a full time job taking in average 10 hours of your day (with a break and commuting), need 8 hours of sleep, have to shop for food, clothes, etc. yourself and have to cook your own food, so you only have about 4-5 hours every day for your private life.
That is too little for serious practice, especially since a lot of jobs are very draining - either physically or mentally - and so you will always be behind on the practice schedule.
With wife and children, the time is basically reduced to 0.
Now consider a typical 17 year old: - About 8 hours a day for high school including breaks, commuting and homework. - 8 hour sleep - No need to buy or cook food
So basically 8 hours a day for practice, no wife and children (at most a girlfriend that does not live in the same house).
TL;DR: - WhiteRa and Boxer practiced for 10 years full-time - Late starters have less time to practice - if any - and don't have WhiteRas and Boxers practice and no time to catch up - Youngsters have too much time :p
It's a fact that after you turn around 30, your body slows down somewhat.
Whether it's 30, 32, or 33, is somewhat individual, but in general, around 30-31 for nearly everyone.
That's not to say someone who is 32 can't compete ... but someone who is 38? I'll believe it when I see it ...
According to hundreds, and possibly thousands of tests made by scientists, they're saying that most people peak mentally at age 20-22, and after that, the decline starts.
Now what you're talking about is a general physical peak for an athlete. They don't need to make splitsecond descisions every minute. Different ballgame totally. Although i'm not saying it won't happen, it most likely will.
I am 23, I started playing SC2 about 7months ago, And I never played any RTS before that, ATM im diamond top25 in my league. I think there is still hope for me to climb higher : )
The generation above us didnt grow up with the videogames we did, i expect my generation, 20ish will continue gaming when they're older, seeing as most of us grew up with video games.
If theres more older progamers like white-ra in about 10 years i wont be surprised.
As many people have said in the thread there is of course the fact that when you are 35 you can't be as fast as if you are 20.
But even if you are older (25+) you can still improve and be fast. When I started playing StarCraft2 my effective APM (I've never spam my keys) was at appr. 40 but now it's 120APM. APM is not everything but I'm actually really happy over my improvement.
I really have to thank my musical background for this - I started playing the violing when I was 5 and for the next 15 years I practiced a lot and at the end I was really good (played solo in concerts with orchestras etc.).
At first I was slow but when I started to practice the same way as I did when I was a great violinist it dramatically improved. You practice combinations, situations over and over again, just like a hard part in a Sonata and after some practice you get it.
You are never to old to improve even when it comes to speed, you just have to focus and practice correctly.
For maybe 95% or more of the players out there age is just an excuse. Nobody but the ones aspiring going pro needs to even think about his/her age.
You are not losing games because of your pshysical or mental cabailities. You are most likely lacking other aspects of the game.
I don't even understand the purpose of these threads since age discussion is irrelevant unless you are talking about getting into top 10 in the WORLD anytime soon.
If you are talking about getting to masters in the ladder your age will never be a factor.
I think older people just have a harder time committing themselves to something because they have other concerns like paying the bills, whereas kids can just do anything without worry. Still, old people hwaiting!
I'm 30, and becoming competitive comes with a lot more difficulties than when I was 18. I am used to being at the top of every game I ever played, but at this age it's difficult. I work a lot more, and thus am tired during my free time. I have a lot of problems with my hands, vision problems, etc.
"Just an excuse" - I'm not sure what this phrase truly means, a cigar is "just" a cigar, and there are plenty of reasons that players at age 30 have a much harder time improving. The older you are, the slower you learn, unfrotunately.
The plus side is that recent research shows, for males, reaction speed is at its peak near the age of 30 (as opposed to 20, previously believed). If anyone's quite interested in this, I'd have to google up the research again as it's been a few months.
I languished in Bronze for many months and have no practice partners. I was able to make it into Platinum and my APM is 100. When I was playing broodwar at age 20, my effective APM was 130-140 and I was able to learn and execute strategies with a lot more ease. I could play 10-15x the amount of games in the same period of time. I just can't do that now. A lot has changed.
Speculate all you like, but if you're quite young it's very difficult to understand how aging relates to your abilities to play eSports or sports alike. It seems that professionals older than 24 have a much more difficult time, and the advantage of experience that older BW pros have in SC2 will soon fade away until it means nothing.
Edit: On the other hand, I started playing trumpet at age 10 and was a professional by age 19, and will have unsurpassed skill with this instrument until the day I die. I have an insane amount of credentials, of which I'd have zero if I started at 15.
It would be great if we could organize a legitimate league for older gamers, as we're just as competitive if not more about the game. I'll always get beaten by someone who can practice all day, and that won't ever change at higher levels.
On September 13 2011 19:57 zyce wrote: It would be great if we could organize a legitimate league for older gamers, as we're just as competitive if not more about the game. I'll always get beaten by someone who can practice all day, and that won't ever change at higher levels.
If you're just as competitive, prove it! Winning a segregated league for older people would be like winning the special Olympics.
On September 13 2011 19:57 zyce wrote: It would be great if we could organize a legitimate league for older gamers, as we're just as competitive if not more about the game. I'll always get beaten by someone who can practice all day, and that won't ever change at higher levels.
Well, i know several people 35 and older who still have time to practice all day since they don't have a job.
I would suggest a league for players that work full-time, like Day9s After Hours Gaming League, just for everyone
On September 13 2011 19:57 zyce wrote: It would be great if we could organize a legitimate league for older gamers, as we're just as competitive if not more about the game. I'll always get beaten by someone who can practice all day, and that won't ever change at higher levels.
If you're just as competitive, prove it! Winning a segregated league for older people would be like winning the special Olympics.
So it would be an outstanding achievement, showing your dedication and love for the sport?
On September 13 2011 19:57 zyce wrote: It would be great if we could organize a legitimate league for older gamers, as we're just as competitive if not more about the game. I'll always get beaten by someone who can practice all day, and that won't ever change at higher levels.
If you're just as competitive, prove it! Winning a segregated league for older people would be like winning the special Olympics.
So it would be an outstanding achievement, showing your dedication and love for the sport?
I agree, it shows that even with the limitations of work, wife and kids you are still able to compete, maybe not on the highest level but still at a very high level.
Young adulthood can be considered the healthiest time of life and young adults are generally in good health, subject neither to disease nor the problems of senescence. Biological function and physical performance reach their peak from 20–35 years of age, waning after 35. Strength peaks around 25 years of age, plateaus through 35 - 40 years of age, and then declines. Flexibility also decreases with age throughout adulthood. However, there are large individual differences and a fit 40-year-old may out-compete a sedentary 20-year-old.
- Shephard, Roy J. (7 March 1998). "Aging and Exercise". Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine and Science (T.D.Fahey). Retrieved 2007-06-26.
On September 13 2011 13:14 Drlemur wrote: 44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
On September 13 2011 18:52 RealQ wrote: The generation above us didnt grow up with the videogames we did, i expect my generation, 20ish will continue gaming when they're older, seeing as most of us grew up with video games.
If theres more older progamers like white-ra in about 10 years i wont be surprised.
That's not really true. I'm 40, my first game was Pong (when I was in footie pajamas) and I've been gaming ever since. I think my generation was the first to really validate gaming as an industry.
The problem with me is as many people have said is time. My daughter is in college and my boy is in high school, and I'm on the road quite a bit for my profession. I don't think we will see many "successful" pro gamers that are 35+ due to time constraints and the normal pressures of life as well as desire.
It's funny, I find myself a lot of times thinking I played well only to look at the replay and think "holy shit your slow old man!" I think it may have to do with carrying around a wrench for 20 years and multiple carpal tunnel problems. I am an excellent armchair quarterback though.
There only logical reason for an age limit in StarCraft, or any game for that matter, is that people in their 30's may have greater financial requirements then they can support with the money they make from gaming.
I really dont see any other reason. Games dont require you to be at your physical peak, so why would it matter what age you are?
On September 13 2011 13:14 Drlemur wrote: 44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
On one note, the only thing holding anybody back is their mindset.
On the other hand, as you grow older you start to realize that time isn't on your side. And beside your own mind, time is also holding you back. If you have no responsibilities what so ever (as a youngster might have). Time is free at your disposal, pushing 10 hours / day might not be a problem.
I'd challenge you to push the same 10 hours a day when you have bills to pay, kids to feed and a wife to entertain without a problem. Going pro means sacrificing parts of your life, it's a simple fact. So when 'old' people say that they can't go pro due to age, I don't think anyone is actually meaning that they are too old. Simply that time isn't on their side.
And specially if you have kids, going full pro might not even be an option as it would mean that you most likely are sacrificing time with your kids.
Boxer and NesTea haven't really had this problem, they started at a young age and have been pro's most of their lives.
People just like to blame their failures on something or impose imaginary limits on what they can do. If you think can't do it, you can't. If you think you can, you can.
On September 13 2011 17:47 Gigaschatten wrote: 37 here - 800 Pts on master (rank 20 in my division currently). I know I won't achieve GM ever because of age and no talent. Still enjoying the game though.
My new hero. Hope you're wrong about making GM someday, too.
I'll keep practicing and you, me and the other 37 diamond guy up-thread can start a SC2 "senior circuit" in a few years. I'd love to be able to go to MLG (or other LAN) and play a small tourney with the other oldsters for amusement's sake. I'll probably never catch my son, but I think I'm not bad for my age.
There are a lot of older gamers out there, but not as many in SC2 it seems. I'm not sure it's totally an age thing -- we aren't really that far past the cognitive skill peak. I think it's more that SC2 is *hard.* SC2 is to other video games as (speed) chess is to other board/table-top games. It's the best, most competitive game by far, but when you are with a causal, social group, Settlers of Catan is much more likely to be popular.
As gamers age, I think we'll find other supportive dads for their game playing sons, too. We know video games themselves aren't bad but they crowd out other things. When that's important things (homework, exercise), we need to fix that. But it also crowds out a lot of teenage behavior that doesn't necessarily do anybody any good, which we like. And we had a blast watching Day9's Funday Monday together instead of Monday Night Football last night -- laughing and maybe getting better at SC2 >>> watching grown men get brain damage.
On September 13 2011 13:14 Drlemur wrote: 44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
im 27 and my fingers are too old and decrepit to play this game!! why age why!!!!! actually im average 160-170 star2 apm yo woo woo! Nestea and white ra are my heros ^_^
While i think you make a very valid point, a great deal also has to do with what kind a mastery you are aiming at. What i mean is, comparing people across different disciplines does not really work.
A good example would be comparing a 100m sprinter to a chess player. The athlete is depending on his body to compete, and as such reaches a limit and a downfall during his career (talking top-tier here, every one can keep in shape to "run" 100m but not at the Olympics) - whereas the chess player can spend his entire life getting better.
Personally I think Starcraft is a mix between both, a older player might win a game with game-sense, timing and superior experience, while the younger player might win on creativity and dexterity (mechanics and whatnot).
While most skills can be perfected for a lifetime (including some physical, like Wushu, carpentry ect.) there are simply some that is so dependent on your physique / mentality that you either cant do it being too young, or cant do it being too old.
True mastery is a myth anyway, you must do what you enjoy and fulfil yourself in what you do. Striving for mastery often times leads to failure, whereas genuine fulfilment and joy most often create something truly masterful and original.
Well for me it's Rage Against the Machine's Tom Morello, the guy is one of the most creative guitarist of the century and he started guitar very late, past his 20's or something like that.
ian wright the arsenal and england footballer was playing amateur football till he was 22. in football terms thats insanely late to get a professional contract its always worth trying especially when everything is much more accesible now than it was in the past
So great to see other "older" people doing so well in this game! Maybe I have some hope too.
I am ~40, part of the generation who grew up with the first computer games as they emerged during the 80s. I never really stopped playing. The biggest change in my gaming experience and skill was not age, but children. Three of them. It's not so much the lack of time, but rather it's impossible to really concentrate on anything. It's like there is always somebody asking me to do something. Always, day or night. Otherwise, I feel I could still master SC2 quite well if I wanted to.
I bought SC2 for my son as a Christmas present without knowing what it was. He is 6. I bought SC2 because he was playing Civ but was only interested in fighting, so I figured maybe SC2 has the fighting part but no pyramids. I was right. He plays mostly single player, but we do some 4v4s together. He plays 4v4 with his friends. When he ladders, its always 6pool. People BM him but he can't read it. He's in bronze, I am in silver. I know that soon I will be totally left behind. Maybe he can coach me then!
On September 13 2011 12:50 Datum wrote: FDR didn't start being President until 51, and he was the first President Bonjwa. The only time he didn't defend his presidency (I believe it was the Shinhan Bank Presidency), was because he DIED.
Quoting this again, because it made me LOL.
I'm not sure the exact point of the thread. But there are plenty of examples of people excelling outside the "norm" which I think this is basically what is being talked about. Whether that "norm" is age, gender, physical or mental limitations, whatever it might be.
However, it doesn't happen often but when it does it is cool to recognize.
Why is this thread still open? None of those people started late.
And NO, we don't start having Alzheimer's and arthritis at 28. When people say they're "too old" is because they mean they don't have the time anymore to commit to a pro-gamer practice schedule. It's easy to do in school when you can just blow off homework and game 24/7.
I'm 39 and in Plat, I try to get a few games in every couple of days when I can. My son is 10 and I let him play vs the AI sometimes, he enjoys it and has caught onto it surprisingly well. Even uses the hotkeys.
Both of us have other responsibilities (me work and family, him chores and schoolwork), so naturally our playing is at a minimum. I consider my Plat status to be pretty good considering how little I play. In my single guy days I played BroodWar so I guess that experience helps me compensate with my ~50 apm.
If any of you other old men want to get some games going, friend me in the game sometime. ElMeanYo.632... cheers!
None of those examples are good... people who have been practicing for years and exceptional prodigies?
People slow in both mind and body as they get older (late 20s onwards). It's a simple fact. There's a reason it's hard for older people to learn musical instruments etc. than for young people. It's the same for Starcraft and anything else in life.
I don't think apm, or reactions are hampered, just that people don't practice as hard as they get older. People lose dedication and motivation. Alot of quake players say there aim got worse, but also they are not playing 4-6 hours a day anymore. I don't think age has much to do with it. Look at daigo, hes like 30 now, and still one of the top players, but he still plays hours and hours and hours a day, so his skill and mechanics are still up there. I don't even know if being older has anything do with learning other than your not hyper focused on getting better.
I don't think that being older is an impediment to get good, but usually older people have other worries in their life and different priorities in life that stop them to spending the required time to get good. it's about motivation.
I don't believe that age is THAT big of a limitation. The amount that you can accomplish would probably be less, but there has been many many example of people starting a hobby late into their 20's and 30's and still becoming world class at it.
But age is still a factor. I don't know if it's possible for someone to, say, start playing sc1 and become world class in it, because the majority of players reach their peak at like 16-22, and after that they start to fizzle out and play worse. Sc, especially sc1 is reliant on nerves and quick decision making which supposedly peaks early in your life, so something like playing sc or video games in general might be more affected by age than other hobbies. But you can still accomplish a great deal in any hobby regardless of what age you start at, provided you're interested in it and work hard.
On September 13 2011 12:18 retRed wrote: "I'm to old to get any good at this game" "The younger you are, the more able you are to pick things up" "I wish I had started earlier" "I've played for too long" "I use to be really good" "If I hadn't lost the spark.."
Although I'm mainly referring to the older group of gamers and such, y"all can't stay young forever ~~~ People tend to do things better when they can relate certain things to themselves, so I wanted to motivate you guy's who blame your age when it comes to improving.
Slayer Boxer- A man we all respect for his creativity, innovation, and the way he turns a game around when all hope was lost. Did you know during the time he won the World Cyber Game's he was 21 years. The game came out in 98, that means he started sc at age 18.
Nestea- Currently probably the best sc2 player in the world. He's 28 and kicking butt.
Shinichi Suzuki- The world class violinist and teacher who created his own method which is almost the staple way to learn violin across the world. He was self taught starting at age 17 only listening to records and at age 22 when he started to take lessons, his teacher was surprised Suzuki had learned so much by himself.
Allen Doyle- Professional golfer, now a senior professional golfer. He became pro at age 45, he's won the 2006 senior open making him the oldest pro golfer to had done that.
Steve Harris "Iron Maiden's bass player"- He started playing bass at age 17.
*Write below some famous people who started late as well
If Brett Farve had won with the Vikings (super bowl) it again would have been the tiny exception to the rule because of his experience over time. He did not decide at age 39 to make a run at playing pro football his skills were still engrained relying more off muscle memory than actual thought process.
It doesnt matter if you cant get good at this game if you are not planning on going pro. Beating people in the masters league doesnt mean anything, you wont gain anything from it, and no one is going to pay you for it.
The bottom line people have to understand is that there are 3 groups of players: - casuals - people who think they are good, dont have any results, and do coaching, these people are not pro players - pro players on pro teams that made a career out of gaming in sc2
Everyone who has $50 can fit into the first catagory.
To fit into the second, you have to have a good understanding of the game, and being grand masters helps for advertisement value; there are a lot of these people out there that want to think they are pro and WANT to become pro, but they are too preoccupied on either their coaching, their ego, or actually have a real job along with coaching sc2. Generally these people have no real tournament results, and often are not on a real professional team.
To fit into the 3rd catagory, you *must* start gaming at a younger age. I dont care what people say, but the younger you are, the more opportunity you have. The older you get, the more opportunity you lose. You have to have natural talent for games, you have to have an extremely high confidence level and desire to reach the highest level. Lastly, you have to have connections, whether it be other good players, existing teams, or groups of people looking to develop a serious team for competition and have the finantial means to do so.
I'll use myself as an example. I am 24, I just started playing sc2 about 7 months ago. The only rts experience I have is single player missions in Dawn of War and C&C red alert 1 and 2. I have zero experience in competitive play with video games.
The ultimate question is: Can I become a pro player? The answer is no. At my age, I have to have a full time job to support myself. I dont have the luxury of parents who let their child who is in their senior year of highschool have no job, not be 100% focused on entering college.
A pro whose name I will not say has spoken about this before on a certain popular show and podcast that most of us probably listen to. Generally, he said that you have to take a look at yourself and your life, and go down a checklist of things that you must have to be a pro gamer: - experience with games, namely sc1 but any competitive online game helps - time to commit to practice. Do you have at least 8-10 hours a day to get in serious practice WITH other good players? - If you do have 8-10 hours a day to dedicate to the game, can you support your life with that?
Back in sc2 beta, I feel like litterally everyone had at least a small chance of attempting to go pro at this game. Nothing was figured out, everything was viable, it was a time with a lot of opportunity for any random player to have some results, and then chain that into a team and everything else. At the current state of the game, and I know it's still technically a new game, I honestly believe that this is not possible to accomplish anymore.
If you are not in catagory 2 of the types of players by now, you definately have absolutely no shot at going pro.
It will only hurt you to think you still have a shot. Just get it over with, tell yourself you are not going to be a pro, and just play the game for fun. Participate in the community in some other way, but dont fool yourself into thinking you can achieve the unachievable.
On September 13 2011 12:50 Datum wrote: FDR didn't start being President until 51, and he was the first President Bonjwa. The only time he didn't defend his presidency (I believe it was the Shinhan Bank Presidency), was because he DIED.
Yeh bad example bro. Prob a great speacher, but by people who understands economics he is considered as one of the absolute worst presidents.
On September 13 2011 12:50 Datum wrote: FDR didn't start being President until 51, and he was the first President Bonjwa. The only time he didn't defend his presidency (I believe it was the Shinhan Bank Presidency), was because he DIED.
Yeh bad example bro. Prob a great speacher, but by people who understands economics he is considered as one of the absolute worst presidents.
On September 13 2011 12:50 Datum wrote: FDR didn't start being President until 51, and he was the first President Bonjwa. The only time he didn't defend his presidency (I believe it was the Shinhan Bank Presidency), was because he DIED.
Yeh bad example bro. Prob a great speacher, but by people who understands economics he is considered as one of the absolute worst presidents.
Edit: forget it, not worth it.
Always interesting to see how people attack someone because of their ability to speak a foreign language (which is also completely irrelevant), while they only know 1 language themselves. =)
for example, when people say you learn faster when you are young... that is partly true, in many cases
however, young people will not have the benefit of a more mature person's experience in working hard or ability to concentrate or focus or simply not give up
On September 13 2011 13:14 Drlemur wrote: 44 and plat here. Working on it. There are a few oldsters out here on the ladder, you young whippersnappers.
BTW, it helps to have a 15yo Master level player in the house to laugh at me and give advice (my son). I told him he could play all summer as long as he stuck to a proper Korean training schedule: decent night's sleep, regular meals, physical exercise and then as many games as he wants. He made Masters and we went out to Korean BBQ in Chicago to celebrate.
The main thing about oldsters is we mostly have manners like White Ra -- more gg, more skill. I'm not going to rage at you for cheesing, this isn't my first rodeo.
You sound like the best dad ever that's pretty awesome. Good luck making diamond!
On September 14 2011 04:32 ishyishy wrote: It doesnt matter if you cant get good at this game if you are not planning on going pro. Beating people in the masters league doesnt mean anything, you wont gain anything from it, and no one is going to pay you for it.
The bottom line people have to understand is that there are 3 groups of players: - casuals - people who think they are good, dont have any results, and do coaching, these people are not pro players - pro players on pro teams that made a career out of gaming in sc2
Everyone who has $50 can fit into the first catagory.
To fit into the second, you have to have a good understanding of the game, and being grand masters helps for advertisement value; there are a lot of these people out there that want to think they are pro and WANT to become pro, but they are too preoccupied on either their coaching, their ego, or actually have a real job along with coaching sc2. Generally these people have no real tournament results, and often are not on a real professional team.
To fit into the 3rd catagory, you *must* start gaming at a younger age. I dont care what people say, but the younger you are, the more opportunity you have. The older you get, the more opportunity you lose. You have to have natural talent for games, you have to have an extremely high confidence level and desire to reach the highest level. Lastly, you have to have connections, whether it be other good players, existing teams, or groups of people looking to develop a serious team for competition and have the financial means to do so.
I'll use myself as an example. I am 24, I just started playing sc2 about 7 months ago. The only rts experience I have is single player missions in Dawn of War and C&C red alert 1 and 2. I have zero experience in competitive play with video games.
The ultimate question is: Can I become a pro player? The answer is no. At my age, I have to have a full time job to support myself. I dont have the luxury of parents who let their child who is in their senior year of highschool have no job, not be 100% focused on entering college.
A pro whose name I will not say has spoken about this before on a certain popular show and podcast that most of us probably listen to. Generally, he said that you have to take a look at yourself and your life, and go down a checklist of things that you must have to be a pro gamer: - experience with games, namely sc1 but any competitive online game helps - time to commit to practice. Do you have at least 8-10 hours a day to get in serious practice WITH other good players? - If you do have 8-10 hours a day to dedicate to the game, can you support your life with that?
Back in sc2 beta, I feel like litterally everyone had at least a small chance of attempting to go pro at this game. Nothing was figured out, everything was viable, it was a time with a lot of opportunity for any random player to have some results, and then chain that into a team and everything else. At the current state of the game, and I know it's still technically a new game, I honestly believe that this is not possible to accomplish anymore.
If you are not in catagory 2 of the types of players by now, you definately have absolutely no shot at going pro.
It will only hurt you to think you still have a shot. Just get it over with, tell yourself you are not going to be a pro, and just play the game for fun. Participate in the community in some other way, but dont fool yourself into thinking you can achieve the unachievable.
Thing is, going pro aint easy, and it takes time, Im 21, low masters. But it aint like I throw a lot of time into this game, prolly around 400-500 games. So about 100-125 hours of play. I watched broodwar before that, but never tried to improve. I probably have less than 20 games of me trying to actually do standard builds.
I did compete in FPS before, so I knew how to learn, so that's probably what let me get better faster. It's simply figuring out how to learn better. You need time though, a lot of fucking time to go pro. Chasing dreams is pretty stupid honestly, and with age comes lack of motivation and drive, as well as a flurry of other life problems. We are essentially talking about learning here, can an older person learn as well as a younger person if they both put in the same effort. I don't know, but it seems far-fetched that they couldn't.
Thing is, going pro aint easy, and it takes time, Im 21, low masters. But it aint like I throw a lot of time into this game, prolly around 400-500 games. So about 100-125 hours of play. I watched broodwar before that, but never tried to improve. I probably have less than 20 games of me trying to actually do standard builds.
I did compete in FPS before, so I knew how to learn, so that's probably what let me get better faster. It's simply figuring out how to learn better. You need time though, a lot of fucking time to go pro. Chasing dreams is pretty stupid honestly, and with age comes lack of motivation and drive, as well as a flurry of other life problems. We are essentially talking about learning here, can an older person learn as well as a younger person if they both put in the same effort. I don't know, but it seems far-fetched that they couldn't.
i dont really see the point in discussing something like this. If what you are discussing is a learning curve between people of a significant age difference, there are too many factors to really have a discussing about.
If it is a physical sport, would a 18 yr old person "learn" how to perform it better or faster than someone whos 40? Probably. Ok so...what is there to discuss?
If you want to talk about ONLY starcraft, you can go on for ever about it, but all you will do is talk yourself around in circles. Is a younger person more motivated? I dont know, depends on how the older person thinks or how high their confidence level is too. The older one could have even more confidence. But who has the better finger dexterity or some shit that sounds ridiculous, I dont know is the young person unhealthy? Is the older person more physically fit with better hand-eye coordination? Anything is possible. There is no point in discussing something like that.
I guess I just dont understand what the point of this thread is. At first I just assumed it was some guy trying to find an excuse to still believe he can go pro when in reality he has no chance. But, if it's about learning curves or whatever, then I'll apologize right now and just stay out of this thread because this is a waste of time lol.
I do think to get to the highest level you have to have the right type of mindset for this type of game. Someone who grew up playing strategy/RTS type games ill be able to learn and things will seem more natural when playing anything like that. That doesn't mean its impossible to get better or be one of the best you just have to have the right mindset towards what you are doing.
I used to play comp stomps on USEast BW with these two 40 year old guys, they were pretty cool guys but they never wanted to play actual melee games against other people.. their excuse was being too old =(
On September 13 2011 13:31 IndoorSpawningPool wrote: I'm in my late 20's.... whenever someone cheeses me I start spamming my LifeAlert bracelet. Has anyone seen my dentures?
That was pretty funny. Age is irrelevant for the most part. If you have the time and dedication to play the game then you'll get good.
I do think to get to the highest level you have to have the right type of mindset for this type of game. Someone who grew up playing strategy/RTS type games ill be able to learn and things will seem more natural when playing anything like that. That doesn't mean its impossible to get better or be one of the best you just have to have the right mindset towards what you are doing.
You have to have the time to commit to the game to play at the highest level. The best mindset and the most positive attitude in the world wont get you there.
Of the average sc2 player's age range (I'd guess around 21) we've got a large portion of pro players in their mid 20s and beyond. If anything, I'd say that age is a benefit to becoming a pro gamer.
On September 14 2011 05:38 Fealthas wrote: The main reason sc2 isnt like mainstream is because older people look at it and go- OMG dumb game for kiddies.
and that is mostly because gaming is still so new, in the next generation all the gamers of today (the millions of people) will be accepting of these games when their children get interested
Right fielder Jose Bautista has been scrubbing around in the minors, or in the majors warming benches before getting traded to the Blue Jays. He joined when he was ~30ish. Past a lot of people's prime and at the age beyond when people will consider someone's "upside." He gets a shot at playing full time right field/3B and he's been the Jays best hitter for over 2 seasons, one of the best (if not the best) hitter in the universe and is leading the league in HR. Never give up!
35 here... high diamond, but I only play off and on, know lots of buddies that are around the same age and in masters... none of us play full time, I'm sure some of us could go pro if were able to focus on it full time. Its all about priorities and what you choose to spend your time on.
I have no dreams of going pro, save some weird situation where I struck it rich and wanted to challenge myself with something. Its enough for me to just enjoy the game, the competition, and the challenge to improve!
It doesnt matter if you cant get good at this game if you are not planning on going pro. Beating people in the masters league doesnt mean anything, you wont gain anything from it, and no one is going to pay you for it.
That's the wrong way to look at it. Define "meaningless". A bronze leaguer's promotion into silver could have more meaning for that specific individual, than a pro winning a tournament. As you get older you'll find that life is primarily just the way you perceive it. You say beating people in masters league is meaningless, but what if such a thing is very satisfying to that individual? In such a case it has meaning.
That's the wrong way to look at it. Define "meaningless". A bronze leaguer's promotion into silver could have more meaning for that specific individual, than a pro winning a tournament. As you get older you'll find that life is primarily just the way you perceive it. You say beating people in masters league is meaningless, but what if such a thing is very satisfying to that individual? In such a case it has meaning.
obviously i am directing this towards the people that feel like the deserve attention and sponsorship because they can regularly "compete" in the masters league. Trust me there are a lot of them out there.
While I agree with the OP's sentiment alot of his examples don't back up his claims. For example, Boxer is still good at his age not despite his age but because he's been playing RTS for over a decade and so has a ton of experience, and SC2 doesn't require as much APM (faster hands being an advantage of young age) that BW does, meaning that saying "boxer did it, if you work hard at 30+ you can too" doesn't make sense because Boxer started at a young age, which runs counter to the OP's point.
I am 31, 950Masters, well i can say that age is really a limiting factor, but there are other factors that people should consider before talking about this subject.
1- when did u start playing? 2- how often do u play? 3- how much committed you are?
i`ve been playing bw and Sc2 for like 5 years... its not the same if somebody at his 30 want to play SC2 without even played any RTS before, it will be extremely hard to archive some good result.
Boxer and Nestea for instance they both have a vast experience in RTS games. This is the same as being good in Sex, as you get older and have experience more good u are in bed.
age is an excuse, and a dumb myth started by people who claim anyone in their late 20s or beyond can't be good at rts games. White-RA and Nestea proving people wrong. Just go play and get better. It's not like we're 80 years old trying to go pro at starcraft 2. there's no physical reason why anyone around middle age or younger can't put in the time and effort to get great at this game or any other game.
its clear there is an age cut off to being competitive. It's a likely fact that there isnt a single person in the world at GM level over 30 besides the 3-4 people in the world who started young and have 10+ experience under their belt. Combine that bit of info with the fact that reflexes and general brain function peak before 27. Besides clinging to some cliche "You're never to old to etc.." what evidence is there at all that supports op theory? Sorry its time to move out of the way old man!
A great example is not golf or chess. It's online poker - the best poker players in the world around the age of 35 who cut their teeth in live play cannot learn to multitable more than 4 tables, and believe it they have tried, it is their livelihood. Their minds just cannot keep up with the multi-tasking. (sc2 is predominantly multitasking) The average 35 year old? Forget about it!
On September 14 2011 08:24 Kokujin wrote: its clear there is an age cut off to being competitive. It's a likely fact that there isnt a single person in the world at GM level over 30 besides the 3-4 people in the world who started young and have 10+ experience under their belt. Combine that bit of info with the fact that reflexes and general brain function peak before 27. Besides clinging to some cliche "You're never to old to etc.." what evidence is there at all that supports op theory? Sorry its time to move out of the way old man!
A great example is not golf or chess. It's online poker - the best poker players in the world around the age of 35 who cut their teeth in live play cannot learn to multitable more than 4 tables, and believe it they have tried, it is their livelihood. Their minds just cannot keep up with the multi-tasking. (sc2 is predominantly multitasking) The average 35 year old? Forget about it!
what proof is there that your brain reflexes peak before 27? what proof is there that you CAN'T be old and be great at games? It's not like im some 50 year old trying to defend my age group, im only 22, i just think its silly that an older player starts to decline then all you hear is "too old. give up."
Actually most studies show 22-23 as the peak, but 27 is when degradation starts in tests like reasoning, speed of thought and spatial visualisation. Late 30s on average is when memory starts to go.
On September 13 2011 13:06 _Major wrote: Old guys like me have jobs, kids, and wives. We can still get pretty good, but we're at a huge disadvantage in comparison to someone in their teens or in college. It really comes down to time, priorities, and readily available practice partners/coaches.
Yep. Often I hear that to improve you need to play a large volume of games. I try, but to be honest I can fit probably 2-3 matches a day IF I'M LUCKY (I'm in my mid 30's).
I feel like I'm slowly getting behind of the general population. Last year during beta I was able to get to lower plat (back when plat WAS the highest league you can get). After the game was released I was still able to maintain upper plat for a couple months.
Nowadays I'm struggling at upper gold. I don't think I've lost skill or mechanics, but the general population has simply gotten much better at this game.
If there are 35-40 year olds still playing in the NFL I guarantee that older Starcraft players can easily do it as well. Especially if with that age you also have tons of experience.
There are so many Veteran NFL players that are clearly outclassed in speed and strength, but they are so much smarter they are way way way more effective players than the younger guys who make more mistakes.
The current old gamers started when they were way younger. If you're in your 30s now don't bother trying to learn quickly, take your time and grind your way up. Its possible but extremely unlikely.
Younger people who grow up around the game/technology are much better and can adapt quicker around these games/technologies. Its a proven fact.
On September 13 2011 15:42 IPA wrote: I'm a 29 year old masters level player. I like where I am. Only kids think late 20s/early 30s constitutes "old". You'll see soon enough.
29 and Plat, I have 2 kids and try and play like 3 games a night. I travel a lot due to the military and get interupted a lot due to the kids. But I like my kids so I don't mind.
EPT
I'd love to be able to go to MLG (or other LAN) and play a small tourney with the other oldsters for amusement's sake. I'll probably never catch my son, but I think I'm not bad for my age.
