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I just realized that with the change a while back to lower the sentry gateway build time (but not the warpgate cooldown time), I'm pretty sure you can actually do a nice little macro trick to pump out sentries just a little bit faster than normal.
So for example let's say you have one warpgate (to keep it simple) and you want to make 3 sentries. Normally with warpgates you would warp in a sentry, wait 32 seconds (assume no chrono for simplicity again), warp in another sentry, wait 32 seconds, warp in another sentry. That's a total of 64 seconds for 3 sentries (not including the actual time for the unit to become functional as it starts warping in as that doesn't affect the gateway itself and thus doesn't hinder future cycles).
Instead, warp in a sentry, change the warpgate into a gateway (10 seconds), start making a sentry (37 sec build time), change the gateway back to a warpgate (10 seconds), and warp in a third sentry. This is 57 seconds total, a 7 second decrease in building time to get 3 sentries (and the cycle could obviously continue indefinitely assuming you have the resources).
Am I doing the math wrong somehow here or is this actually a useful little trick in certain situations?
Either way it's important to note that since the rest of the warpgate units still have cooldowns 10 secs over their build times, this trick does not work and you end up 2 seconds slower even with all that work.
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I think it's largely due to convenience and pay-off. 5 seconds for 57 seconds of precision clicking, timing, and focus doesn't necessarily seem worth it.
Secondarily, if you factor in chrono boost, your better off leaving it as a warpgate. For instance, you warp in your first sentry and you chrono boost the cooldown and like... 4 marines show up at your doorstep. You then have the choice to instantly have a Stalker, a Zealot, or another Sentry. You can snap decision whatever composition you want. If you had one sentry standing on top of you ramp, and another one like 75% done when those 4 marines show up, you can't be like "SHIT, I actually need a Stalker to kite these bastards around or range them from behind the forcefielded ramp!"
The point I am trying to make here I guess, is that there is more to the Warpgate mechanic than just timing. It is largely about being able to snap decide which units you need now, rather than committing to a 30 second build time.
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i believe this was found in beta and blizzard patched it out...if they didn't however i need to start using it, great thing to do with extra apm 
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I thought they patched that?
Edit: ninja'd 
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Doesn't it take something like 5 seconds to warp units in, though?
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Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.
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I've been wondering, if you warp in a unit, switch to gateway and switch right back, the cooldown doesn't restart does it? Because that would get you the unit like 10 seconds faster if i'm not mistaken, not counting chronoboost
I'm assuming that's not possible to do, because if it was i'm sure a lot of pro's would have figured it out (not to mention blizzard) and abused it/reported it.
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not sure if that works that way ... but if it works, you should try to change into a normal gate, then back into a warp gate x3, 20 sec cooldown for every unit hihi.
But since the warp gate change time was increased by alot around the beta/early release, i belief they did something to prevent such a thing. (was 3 seconds at that time? which would have allowed to go do this with any unit not just sentrys)
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On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.
Oh snap seriously?
Time to get off my lazy arse and actually go test it...
That'd make me really sad if they took something like this out of the game when it could add a lot of skill
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Why would you make such a thread before testing it?
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I just tested it to make sure, when the gateway changes into a warpgate for a second time, it starts in cooldown, so you can't warp in that 3rd sentry.
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No trick:
0:00 no sentries
0:05 sentry 1 able to be used
0:42 sentry 2 able to be used
1:17 sentry 3 able to be used
1:49 sentry 4 able to be used
With trick:
0:00 no sentries
0:05 sentry 1 able to be used
0:15 gateway
0:42 sentry 2 able to be used
0:52 warpgate
0:57 sentry 3 able to be used
1:34 sentry 4 able to be used
NET RESULTS
- sentry 3 available 20 in-game seconds faster
- sentry 4 available 15 in-game seconds faster
(assuming this trick works)
((math used: 5 seconds for warpgate build time ; 32 seconds for warpgate cooldown ; 37 seconds for sentry gateway build ; 10 seconds to morph gateway type))
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Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work
Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\
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On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\
well it also balances warp-gate rushes, so yeahh
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On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\
Imagine an optimized 4gate with this trick
would be so fucking gosu! Goddamnit blizzard why not!
jk's, would be way too good.
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On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.
Bah, it's just like what Blizzard said about Diablo 3. If a player finds a creative way to gain an advantage, they'll patch it.
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On September 06 2011 17:34 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing. Bah, it's just like what Blizzard said about Diablo 3. If a player finds a creative way to gain an advantage, they'll patch it.
So you would rather that some players had a competitive advantage over others based on some gimmicky trick? Excellent
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On September 06 2011 17:31 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\ Imagine an optimized 4gate with this trick would be so fucking gosu! Goddamnit blizzard why not! jk's, would be way too good.
Well the units would spawn all the way back at the gateway so offensively for stuff like 4gate it would be useless... the rush distance is going to be longer than 7 seconds. It's only useful in a defensive postiion where you need those units immediately at your base.
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The problem is, the 2nd sentry (that you've built from gateway) won't have energy built up, since it can only start with it, once produced. Even though it's overall slower, you'll have more energy available if you stick with warps.
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How on earth do you define "gimmicky trick"?
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On September 06 2011 17:28 Vei wrote:
No trick:
0:00 no sentries
0:05 sentry 1 able to be used
0:42 sentry 2 able to be used
1:17 sentry 3 able to be used
1:49 sentry 4 able to be used
With trick:
0:00 no sentries
0:05 sentry 1 able to be used
0:15 gateway
0:42 sentry 2 able to be used
0:52 warpgate
0:57 sentry 3 able to be used
1:34 sentry 4 able to be used
NET RESULTS
- sentry 3 available 20 in-game seconds faster
- sentry 4 available 15 in-game seconds faster
(assuming this trick works)
((math used: 5 seconds for warpgate build time ; 32 seconds for warpgate cooldown ; 37 seconds for sentry gateway build ; 10 seconds to morph gateway type))
I might have missed something, but if you need 37 seconds to get a sentry, you get it at the 52 seconds mark (15+37=52). In which way you get warpgate at 1:02 and the next usable sentry at 1:07, for a 10 second gain (and a 10 second delay on the 2nd one).
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On September 06 2011 17:49 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 17:31 marttorn wrote:On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\ Imagine an optimized 4gate with this trick would be so fucking gosu! Goddamnit blizzard why not! jk's, would be way too good. Well the units would spawn all the way back at the gateway so offensively for stuff like 4gate it would be useless... the rush distance is going to be longer than 7 seconds. It's only useful in a defensive postiion where you need those units immediately at your base.
Ah well I was thinking like warping in a unit, going to gateway and then switching back to warp gate and the CD would be reset (like it is when you first open a warpgate originally after its built)
I think it's basically the same mechanic as what you proposed, at least it was the same fix that killed its potential.
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Warpgate cooldown is paused while gateway is in gateway form.
I thought of this back in beta, tried it and was disappointed that it didn't work.
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I tested this a while ago actually. It doesn't work, when you change the warpgate into a gateway it saves the cooldown time on that warpgate, when you change it back it continues from where it left off.
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i tested it but it dont work.
normal: 5+32+5+32+5= 74 (5= warp in time; 32 cooldown)
trick: 5+10+37+10+30+5 = 97 ( 5= warp in time; 10 gatechangetime; 37 buildtime; and i recognized there is still the cooldown about 30seks after doing this trick dont know why)
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On September 06 2011 17:42 Swwww wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 17:34 branflakes14 wrote:On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing. Bah, it's just like what Blizzard said about Diablo 3. If a player finds a creative way to gain an advantage, they'll patch it. So you would rather that some players had a competitive advantage over others based on some gimmicky trick? Excellent
Then gimmicky tricks like muta stacking and stop lurkers shouldn't exist either, right?
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On September 06 2011 20:37 Okiesmokie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 17:42 Swwww wrote:On September 06 2011 17:34 branflakes14 wrote:On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing. Bah, it's just like what Blizzard said about Diablo 3. If a player finds a creative way to gain an advantage, they'll patch it. So you would rather that some players had a competitive advantage over others based on some gimmicky trick? Excellent Then gimmicky tricks like muta stacking and stop lurkers shouldn't exist either, right?
I don't really consider "I build units faster than you because I click more" to be the same level of gimmick as stop lurkers. It sounds more like the awful gas gimmicks blizzard was pondering before coming up with better macro mechanics.
As noted, this was discovered quite a while ago in beta and subsequently patched out.
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EPT
