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Cycle warpgates when pumping sentries?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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1 2 Next All
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
September 06 2011 08:12 GMT
#1
I just realized that with the change a while back to lower the sentry gateway build time (but not the warpgate cooldown time), I'm pretty sure you can actually do a nice little macro trick to pump out sentries just a little bit faster than normal.

So for example let's say you have one warpgate (to keep it simple) and you want to make 3 sentries. Normally with warpgates you would warp in a sentry, wait 32 seconds (assume no chrono for simplicity again), warp in another sentry, wait 32 seconds, warp in another sentry. That's a total of 64 seconds for 3 sentries (not including the actual time for the unit to become functional as it starts warping in as that doesn't affect the gateway itself and thus doesn't hinder future cycles).

Instead, warp in a sentry, change the warpgate into a gateway (10 seconds), start making a sentry (37 sec build time), change the gateway back to a warpgate (10 seconds), and warp in a third sentry. This is 57 seconds total, a 7 second decrease in building time to get 3 sentries (and the cycle could obviously continue indefinitely assuming you have the resources).

Am I doing the math wrong somehow here or is this actually a useful little trick in certain situations?

Either way it's important to note that since the rest of the warpgate units still have cooldowns 10 secs over their build times, this trick does not work and you end up 2 seconds slower even with all that work.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Durn
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada360 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 08:18:07
September 06 2011 08:17 GMT
#2
I think it's largely due to convenience and pay-off. 5 seconds for 57 seconds of precision clicking, timing, and focus doesn't necessarily seem worth it.

Secondarily, if you factor in chrono boost, your better off leaving it as a warpgate. For instance, you warp in your first sentry and you chrono boost the cooldown and like... 4 marines show up at your doorstep. You then have the choice to instantly have a Stalker, a Zealot, or another Sentry. You can snap decision whatever composition you want. If you had one sentry standing on top of you ramp, and another one like 75% done when those 4 marines show up, you can't be like "SHIT, I actually need a Stalker to kite these bastards around or range them from behind the forcefielded ramp!"

The point I am trying to make here I guess, is that there is more to the Warpgate mechanic than just timing. It is largely about being able to snap decide which units you need now, rather than committing to a 30 second build time.
"Even if I lose 100 games, that's 100 different arrows pointing me in the wrong direction." - Sean Day[9] Plott
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
September 06 2011 08:17 GMT
#3
i believe this was found in beta and blizzard patched it out...if they didn't however i need to start using it, great thing to do with extra apm
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 08:18:01
September 06 2011 08:17 GMT
#4
I thought they patched that?

Edit: ninja'd
Thermia
Profile Joined August 2010
United States866 Posts
September 06 2011 08:17 GMT
#5
Doesn't it take something like 5 seconds to warp units in, though?
Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling. IGN: Mierin
SteamySashimi
Profile Joined July 2010
10 Posts
September 06 2011 08:18 GMT
#6
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
September 06 2011 08:18 GMT
#7
I've been wondering, if you warp in a unit, switch to gateway and switch right back, the cooldown doesn't restart does it? Because that would get you the unit like 10 seconds faster if i'm not mistaken, not counting chronoboost

I'm assuming that's not possible to do, because if it was i'm sure a lot of pro's would have figured it out (not to mention blizzard) and abused it/reported it.
memes are a dish best served dank
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
September 06 2011 08:20 GMT
#8
not sure if that works that way ... but if it works, you should try to change into a normal gate, then back into a warp gate x3, 20 sec cooldown for every unit hihi.
But since the warp gate change time was increased by alot around the beta/early release, i belief they did something to prevent such a thing. (was 3 seconds at that time? which would have allowed to go do this with any unit not just sentrys)
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 08:21:46
September 06 2011 08:21 GMT
#9
On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.


Oh snap seriously?

Time to get off my lazy arse and actually go test it...

That'd make me really sad if they took something like this out of the game when it could add a lot of skill
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Montana[TK]
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
1624 Posts
September 06 2011 08:24 GMT
#10
Why would you make such a thread before testing it?
Plexa: "It's not [caster] bashing when its the truth."
Emata
Profile Joined May 2010
United States50 Posts
September 06 2011 08:24 GMT
#11
I just tested it to make sure, when the gateway changes into a warpgate for a second time, it starts in cooldown, so you can't warp in that 3rd sentry.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 08:28:56
September 06 2011 08:28 GMT
#12
No trick:
0:00 no sentries
0:05 sentry 1 able to be used
0:42 sentry 2 able to be used
1:17 sentry 3 able to be used
1:49 sentry 4 able to be used


With trick:
0:00 no sentries
0:05 sentry 1 able to be used
0:15 gateway
0:42 sentry 2 able to be used
0:52 warpgate
0:57 sentry 3 able to be used
1:34 sentry 4 able to be used

NET RESULTS
- sentry 3 available 20 in-game seconds faster
- sentry 4 available 15 in-game seconds faster

(assuming this trick works)
((math used: 5 seconds for warpgate build time ; 32 seconds for warpgate cooldown ; 37 seconds for sentry gateway build ; 10 seconds to morph gateway type))
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
September 06 2011 08:28 GMT
#13
Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work

Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 08:30:20
September 06 2011 08:29 GMT
#14
On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:
Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work

Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\

well it also balances warp-gate rushes, so yeahh
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
September 06 2011 08:31 GMT
#15
On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:
Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work

Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\


Imagine an optimized 4gate with this trick

would be so fucking gosu! Goddamnit blizzard why not!

jk's, would be way too good.
memes are a dish best served dank
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
September 06 2011 08:34 GMT
#16
On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.


Bah, it's just like what Blizzard said about Diablo 3. If a player finds a creative way to gain an advantage, they'll patch it.
Swwww
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Switzerland812 Posts
September 06 2011 08:42 GMT
#17
On September 06 2011 17:34 branflakes14 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 17:18 SteamySashimi wrote:
Pretty sure something like this was discussed before and it was found that when the gateway is turned into a warpgate a second time it starts at the beginning of its cooldown cycle. Think this was a fix Blizzard put in to prevent just this sort of thing.


Bah, it's just like what Blizzard said about Diablo 3. If a player finds a creative way to gain an advantage, they'll patch it.


So you would rather that some players had a competitive advantage over others based on some gimmicky trick? Excellent
"What is this TeamSupportGroup?" - mahnini.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
September 06 2011 08:49 GMT
#18
On September 06 2011 17:31 marttorn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 17:28 -orb- wrote:
Ah yeah looks like they made it so that the cooldown is paused while it's a gateway, so this wouldn't work

Oh well, less macro in the game, I guess less skill is better right blizz? :\


Imagine an optimized 4gate with this trick

would be so fucking gosu! Goddamnit blizzard why not!

jk's, would be way too good.


Well the units would spawn all the way back at the gateway so offensively for stuff like 4gate it would be useless... the rush distance is going to be longer than 7 seconds. It's only useful in a defensive postiion where you need those units immediately at your base.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 08:52:20
September 06 2011 08:52 GMT
#19
The problem is, the 2nd sentry (that you've built from gateway) won't have energy built up, since it can only start with it, once produced. Even though it's overall slower, you'll have more energy available if you stick with warps.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
zturchan
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada156 Posts
September 06 2011 08:52 GMT
#20
How on earth do you define "gimmicky trick"?
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