EPTThat being said they shouldn't advertise they are doing it and should still try to put on a great series.
Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 58
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
That being said they shouldn't advertise they are doing it and should still try to put on a great series. | ||
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:03 MyNameWuzBoB wrote: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/13959-fnatic-take-1-2-at-gamegune-mexico Everyone look at this article again. Look at comments #7 and #10. Dat gg.net front page news that has no sources, real legit site. | ||
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On September 02 2011 13:26 babylon wrote: a.) Not everyone competing in the tournament is on the same team. b.) Everyone pretty much agrees a 50/50 split is idiotic and that the prizes are too top-heavy. If they even it out, it would be best for everyone. c.) Progamers are not obligated to actually play good games for the audience, just like how an author is not obligated to write a good book for the readers. Progamers are just obligated to actually show a game, whether good or bad or mediocre. d.) You've been watching games from players all this while who have split prizes without complaining or even noticing what's been going on. The only difference is that you now know about it. I don't understand how some people call the idea for tournament organisers to split prize money for finalists 50/50 is idiotic are the same one's saying players agreeing to split the money is fine because it doesn't affect the way they play. Surely it's the same thing, the only difference is that the tourney is enforcing the split. | ||
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halvorg
Norway717 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:03 meRz wrote: Where in this thread has I ever admitted to prize splitting? I'm just arguing my standpoint. This doesn't necessairly mean that I'm doing this myself (I can't even remember a scenario where I could have been doing this.) Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you have been doing anything, just used the names as examples. I did mean to imply that you will win a large tournament soon though! :D I'll edit the names out. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17979 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:30 Medrea wrote: Well obviously that works for the sponsors, but in the end the hear no evil see no evil approach still robs the spectators. How do you know this doesn't happen in tennis? Or chess? You don't know and you don't care, as long as the games are fun to watch. | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:25 vrok wrote: I respect you for arguing your standpoint intelligently unlike some other 'pros', but in doing this you must realize that you do run the risk of being associated with this behavior. How are we supposed to know if you're close enough friends with the other finalist in order to start considering prize-splitting with him? How are we supposed to know that players actually still try their hardest and don't throw games and pretend to themselves that they went all out? Who says that handling the pressure from winning all that money shouldn't be a factor in determining the winner? I'm not saying it's right to do so, but some would just rather be safe and condemn anyone remotely related to the issue than potentially supporting such behavior. My intentions are just trying to put a professional gamers perspective on the whole thing, so that players like TT1 and ToD don't get completly thrown under the bus and flamed to shit from people who seem to have no clue about how a competitive mindset is like. I agree that handling the pressure from winning all that money maybe should be a factor. That is why I earlier said that some people may see this as "weak". That's also why I earlier stated that I don't necessarily do this myself but I can UNDERSTAND and try to argue for a standpoint none the less. But yes I realize people might categorize me as a guy who splits the money whenever I can, I guess it's a risk I have to take. Just know I'm in this because I love winning and winning is not winning if there's someone throwing a game or not trying their hardest. I'm done with this thread! Everytime I post on TL.net I immidiately get reminded on why I stopped in the first place. (Not directed to those I quoted personally). | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On September 02 2011 13:28 ReignFayth wrote: jesus christ why would the fans care about how much first place win in a given tournament, are you serious right now Why do tourneys advertise their prize pools so prominently? You seem completely unable to look at this debate from a fans perspective, | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:30 Medrea wrote: Well obviously that works for the sponsors, but in the end the hear no evil see no evil approach still robs the spectators. That's why it is important to split the debate up into two parts. Nobody should disagree with it being illegal to talk about, no matter how you feel about it as a whole. Morally I think players should never share prize winnings to an extent of playing for nothing at all. When poker tournaments accomodate deals behind the scenes they will also keep this in mind. They will help setting up deals but they will always require a sum of money to be left in the middle. This is so that the players will continue to try at 100% to win. For example let's look at the Dreamhack Invitational where it was $16,000 for first and nothing for second. Two players splitting $8,000 each to me is morally wrong. Two players splitting $6,000 and $10,000 each to me is not morally wrong. Case 1 you deprive the viewers of quality games. Case 2 you have no negative influence on anything. I very much question whether you can have rules against any of this, so we are left with questions regarding the morals of the situation. | ||
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GLLvz
Norway122 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: That's why it is important to split the debate up into two parts. Nobody should disagree with it being illegal to talk about, no matter how you feel about it as a whole. Morally I think players should never share prize winnings to an extent of playing for nothing at all. When poker tournaments accomodate deals behind the scenes they will also keep this in mind. They will help setting up deals but they will always require a sum of money to be left in the middle. This is so that the players will continue to try at 100% to win. For example let's look at the Dreamhack Invitational where it was $16,000 for first and nothing for second. Two players splitting $8,000 each to me is morally wrong. Two players splitting $6,000 and $10,000 each to me is not morally wrong. Case 1 you deprive the viewers of quality games. Case 2 you have no negative influence on anything. agree 100% | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: That's why it is important to split the debate up into two parts. Nobody should disagree with it being illegal to talk about, no matter how you feel about it as a whole. Morally I think players should never share prize winnings to an extent of playing for nothing at all. When poker tournaments accomodate deals behind the scenes they will also keep this in mind. They will help setting up deals but they will always require a sum of money to be left in the middle. This is so that the players will continue to try at 100% to win. For example let's look at the Dreamhack Invitational where it was $16,000 for first and nothing for second. Two players splitting $8,000 each to me is morally wrong. Two players splitting $6,000 and $10,000 each to me is not morally wrong. Case 1 you deprive the viewers of quality games. Case 2 you have no negative influence on anything. I very much question whether you can have rules against any of this, so we are left with questions regarding the morals of the situation. Yeah I can roll with that. Even though I don't like the idea of it happening at all. As long as its a place where competition can survive then I am ok with it. People, including some pro's, seem to disagree with your viewpoint on how money can be split, to the point where they feel 50-50 is AOK. That I don't agree with and fortunately not many people do. Including sponsors, tournaments, and the spectatorship seem to have made it clear they don't want it in there sport. I feel good that the majority rules the sport in general though. | ||
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Shaetan
United States1175 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: That's why it is important to split the debate up into two parts. Nobody should disagree with it being illegal to talk about, no matter how you feel about it as a whole. Morally I think players should never share prize winnings to an extent of playing for nothing at all. When poker tournaments accomodate deals behind the scenes they will also keep this in mind. They will help setting up deals but they will always require a sum of money to be left in the middle. This is so that the players will continue to try at 100% to win. For example let's look at the Dreamhack Invitational where it was $16,000 for first and nothing for second. Two players splitting $8,000 each to me is morally wrong. Two players splitting $6,000 and $10,000 each to me is not morally wrong. Case 1 you deprive the viewers of quality games. Case 2 you have no negative influence on anything. I very much question whether you can have rules against any of this, so we are left with questions regarding the morals of the situation. But what's the brightline? 8001/7999 is silly as an incentive so more than that but where do you set the cutoff? As long as the players aren't playing shitty because they don't care since the prize money is the same I don't care what they do with the money. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:36 Full.tilt wrote: Why do tourneys advertise their prize pools so prominently? You seem completely unable to look at this debate from a fans perspective, as a fan, i really wouldn't care if mvp played polt (for example) in the forthcoming gsl final and won $40k instead of $46k in order to make polt's money up to $25k instead of $19k. i also wouldn't care if they chopped it down the middle. i also wouldn't care if they made that fact public before the game. IT'S THEIR MONEY. now if as a result that made one or the other play less than 100%, that's a different story, but these players are professionals and shouldn't do even if the only thing on the line is a pretty trophy. if they aren't taking it seriously, then i'm not going to be a fan of theirs | ||
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Barleyarley
United Kingdom20 Posts
Whilst it isn't exactly the best outcome to an event and is kind of disrespectful to the competition I suppose, what can you really do about it? If the players wish to make that sort of agreement and aren't going as far as actually throwing any games then that is their own business imo. It isn't something reserved to eSports either, I once made it to heads up play in a poker tournament and when it was still 3-way we made an agreement that whichever two of us made it to the final that we would split the 1st and 2nd place pot equally, regardless of the outcome. I was a massive short stack at the time so of course I agreed to it straight away! I actually went on to win the tournament and my overall prize purse was effectively slashed in half, so I learnt my lesson.  That said, it didn't stop me from trying just as hard to win and if anything it probably made the game more entertaining because we both took many more risks.It's really down to the discretion of the players whether they are happy with it or not tbh. | ||
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DertoQq
France906 Posts
Does this mean every team-kill game you make is considered "match-fixing" ? | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:43 Shaetan wrote: But what's the brightline? 8001/7999 is silly as an incentive so more than that but where do you set the cutoff? As long as the players aren't playing shitty because they don't care since the prize money is the same I don't care what they do with the money. Thats where I think tournament contracts and if need be, an appointed judge, can make the call as to whether or not it breaks the agreement to fair and un-interfered play in accordance to the tournament rules. We already have this in place. | ||
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MyNameWuzBoB
57 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:43 Shaetan wrote: But what's the brightline? 8001/7999 is silly as an incentive so more than that but where do you set the cutoff? As long as the players aren't playing shitty because they don't care since the prize money is the same I don't care what they do with the money. This. Also it's silly to pin it down to a number like that because $1,000 can mean more to one person than it does another. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:44 DertoQq wrote: Let's say you join a team who make you sign a contract saying that everything you earn will be given to the team and then split for each member of the team. Does this mean every team-kill game you make is considered "match-fixing" ? Thats a highly unusual contract but generally if two contracts are signed but are mutually exclusive to eachother, it becomes a really hairy legal situation. I mean what about taxes and the like? Very very messy. | ||
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mYNDIG
Norway179 Posts
Sharing the price 50/50 is taking away a lot from the match, because while you might not have the nerves and you might actually play better, it's often the mistakes that makes an entertaining match. | ||
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